THANKS for the test on getting buckwheat termination, nice work staying away from the chemicles. i heard that the grazon is messing up a lot of the store bought compost. I got to get me some compost home made.
Thanks- yeah I’m going to play with the weight a little bit I think more importantly, I need to wait a little longer in the plant maturity cycle before I crimp. Thanks for sharing
I would think the remaining live buckwheat will be browsed by deer the remainder of the summer possibly reducing pressure on the brassicas. In my northern WI plots the deer don't wait till Fall to consume brassica, especially in dry years, so I usually have half my plots in clover to avoid early browse pressure on my brassica.
I can’t grow buckwheat here without an electric fence around it. So you are correct that the deer would normally browse that remaining buckwheat off but I have it fenced so unfortunately the buckwheat will finish its life cycle
Discing sandy soil isn't a good choice, typically. The ground where you terminated with the roller-crimper looks much better, to me, than the bare ground. Look at the results you're already getting from the brassica planting. If you had gone with a highly diverse fall mix, you could have grains, legumes, brassicas and forbs all coming up with the buckwheat. Keep in mind that the first frost is going to wipe out the buckwheat, anyway. Your idea of making a 2nd pass with the crimper is spot on! Do that and avoid the discing...you're on the right track.
Good ideas- thanks for sharing. I agree that discing (or tilling) sandy soul is not a desirable approach. I think if I keep at this organic buckwheat approach I’ll be able to reduce the discing for sure and perhaps someday stop it all together (probably need herbicide at that point).
@@northernforestwhitetail - I've been planting food plots for almost 10 years, using no-till methods, and the end result has been much less fertilizer needed and much better growth in the plots. The bonus is it takes a lot less time, money and equipment.
I think the ideal situation would be to terminate by Flailmowing after reseeding, that way you have a great layer of mulch to help keep in moisture and give the new plants thatch to grow into. Thanks Dave
I had buckwheat this summer and last weekend I put in some of my fall brassicas. I mowed the buckwheat and then tilled it in. There's not as much thatch layer on top which isn't as ideal for holding moisture in (although this year maybe won't matter!), but I didn't trust just broadcasting and rolling over with a packer, just for getting the good soil to seed contact. My soil isn't sandy like yours and packing onto unprepped ground, with buckwheat layer in between, I didn't trust that for getting a good set in. I think doing a disc would be better than the tilling I did just so I'm not always tilling the ground, but I don't have a disc yet. Maybe I'll get a disc for next year. I also don't like using the chemicals.
@@gregmulfort9577 nice work that should do it. I think if you do a shallow till it’s not the worst thing in the world for the soil. You can still build organic matter.
Just a thought: would adding weight to the crimper make it more effective in crimping the flow of nutrients through the cellular structure of the stem. Based on your comment about the ATV wheels. What are your thoughts about brush cutting the BW vs crimping? If you or others commented on this I apologize in advance. I might have missed it. Thx.
I don’t think weight was the issue. I say that because there were actually areas where those crimped blades were severing the plants. So I feel like I was as heavy as I wanted it to be. Mowing may be another option but I think the most important thing is timing. I believe I terminated a little too early. When I do this next year I’m waiting until the plants begin to set pods (dough stage). That way the plant should have less ability to resume its growth after it has already fully committed to the reproductive cycle.
Jeff stergous just done a great video on this and he said to crimp it when it's thigh high! If you don't it's alot harder to work with, timing is key to that!
@@troybrake5686 yeah Jeff always sprays his with herbicide while crimping. So it doesn’t matter what height he crimps his at if you spray it. You could crimp it 6” tall and the herbicide will take it out. I was trying to do mine without herbicide.
I did think about a multi species mix but stuck with the brassicas blend this year. Might mix it up next year. I planted the buckwheat at 80 lbs per acre and disced it in. I’m in sandy soil so having a little soil cover over the seed is critical where I’m at.
Thanks- I roller crimped it exactly 6 weeks after planting. When I planted, I disced the seed in (light/medium discing depth). That really helped the buckwheat get a strong start and excellent germination rate (vs just broadcasting on top of ground).
Broadcast your next plot into the standing BW next time. And maybe wait another week until its almost yellowish. Broadcast, crimp and stand back and watch the results... no glyphosate needed and you have an awesome mulch bed to help the seed germinate and to keep the soil cooler as well as retain more moisture. Nice looking BW, btw!
@@northernforestwhitetail you got it! You had not let it get to the dough stage yet, it looked like to me. Wait another week or so and yes then roller crimp!
I keep my plot in perennials but broadcast buckwheat in the summer and rye in the fall. I mow to terminate the rye in June but the buckwheat usually gets eaten and what doesn't, I just let go.
Unrelated question for you as i know you're knowledgeable. Have a 3pt tiller. Fall plot is in rye. Was planning to spray roundup memorial weekend next year and broadcast buckwheat as a cover crop for next year's fall plot. Can i just rototill the bucket wheat or will a 3pt tiller not terminate tall buckwheat very well? Not sure if it'd get wrapped around the tines the way tall rye does?
@@chadilacnissen9717 it won’t be quite as bad as rye but it can still cause you problems- would be better to mow/mulch the buckwheat first, then till. Would reduce binding of tiller
Interesting you did this. This year I crimped (with homemade crimper for the ATV) 1/2 of the B/W with gly and 1/2 without. Of course the gly side died. The other 1/2 had the same results you did. I then weed whacked heads off 1/2 of the ones that "survived" and will see what happens. For some reason I have seen much better germination with the gly area but I suspect this may be because it was not shaded by the B/W leaves'.
Well it's been close to a month shave grown well since I tried my "experiment". The final conclusion for me is I will spray the entire b/w field next year. Just overall better results by killing it with the gly. Just crimping did kill I would say 70%. Flowering plants did not really grow much higher but even weed wacking them did not stop the growth and many have seeded out. I am not to worried about the seeds growing this late and the rye and radishes will keep them from growing and cooler weather should help stunt any b/w growth. The rye and the rads have grown well anyway but I think ait has been a little better where the gly was used. I only am using 3 small plots of maybe 1/2 acre total so spraying the gly is not a big cost for me. Good luck hunting!
Hey I noticed you have some bounce in your crimper, from what I understand this is why they build them with a triangle pattern, to prevent that. I just wonder if maybe that's why you didn't terminate like you wanted.
Yeah it is a bit jumpy… but I designed it that way so it had more of an impact on the plant stems. But you are right that’s why they do the chevron patterns so it rolls steadier. In that case you would need to add quite a bit of weight to get the downward pressure.
Crimping will not give the result (mulch) your looking for without glysophate and 24d, the minimal use and restrictive use of chemicals will not harm the animals and only add to the quality of your mulch.
I tend to agree with the part about not getting the desired mulch effect without the use of herbicides. So, why is it that folks on RUclips claim you can do a totally organic no-till? I’m genuinely trying to understand. I wish it was that simple (organic no-till). However, based on all the research I could find plus my own experiments, I’m finding that a sustainable organic no-till system is extremely difficult at best and impossible at worst. At least in terms of deer attraction.
It’s a chemical that I’d like to avoid if I can find a way. Not totally opposed to it. Just looking for ways to avoid its use if I can. Cancer link? Endocrine disrupters? Folks will argue it’s neither. But do we really know that for certain? Lots of ppl have cancer on the US unfortunately. To be clear I have no idea if there is a link but if I can avoid its use, why not try.
@@northernforestwhitetailit’s odd to me how many people seem to not think twice about covering their land with chemicals. Not to mention eating the animals that consume the chemicals. Is there a link? I don’t know for sure but it’s worth avoiding if you can
Relax. No herbicide, in my opinion is good. Living roots still in your soil, in my opinion is good. There is much more green in the crimped only side. If / when your brassicas canopy, they will again shade weeds. Then compare the two options. I do not anticipate the buckwheat stunting your brassicas. The crimped and disced side is still more bare ground than the crimped only side. Can you mow? Since you e-fence, I suspect that your brassicas will grow well. The resulting canopy may even shade your buckwheat. I do not use herbicide on anything where I am trying to feed deer and other wildlife.
No herbicide and living roots are what I’m going for. I’m not totally against this roller crimped method. Will continue experimenting. Thanks for watching
It’s possible. Although I was getting some plants actually cut off when the blade went over them in thin areas. This year I’m going to probably add a little weight and let the plants mature by a couple more weeks.
But,,,,,, your radish's will get choked out by the re-gen buckwheat. Yes, the buckwheat will die at the first frost. By then it will be to late to establish a descent brassica/radish plot. Just my 2 cents.
Oh I agree with you 100%. That’s one of my concerns here. The buckwheat will need to die soon if the brassicas are going to have a chance (before our first frost). I’m hoping the volunteer buckwheat is minimal enough to where the brassicas still have a chance.
I’m not sure that I’d use the word “scared”. It is proven to kill pollinator species, there is a possible link to non-Hodgkin Lymphoma cancer (not proven), and is linked to endocrine disrupters, etc, etc. I realize that many people have used it for years without any issue (including my friends and family). I’ve just thought: if there is a way to avoid it, why not try to avoid it? Some folks say glyphosate is harmless, inert, and absolutely harmless the second it touches pond water. But if that’s true, then why does the manufacturer say to wear a respirator mask and plastic gloves when handling it? I’m not trying to spread something that’s not true (I.e. say it’s directly linked to cancer), but with the preponderance of circumstantial evidence out there, I’ve just tried to find ways to avoid using it.
![Food Plots Without Herbicide [Brassicas]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ubJcMHOxkNY/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching folks: If you need to protect young trees at a low cost, you can order browse blockers here: www.browseblocker.com/
Great job! Thanks for not poisoning the wildlife in your area! Bravo young man!
You bet- thanks for watching
I like the idea of crimping twice or adding weight or sharper blade on crimper
I think the two passes would help the most. I was cutting off some plants as it was with the weight I had.
THANKS for the test on getting buckwheat termination, nice work staying away from the chemicles. i heard that the grazon is messing up a lot of the store bought compost. I got to get me some compost home made.
You bet thanks for watching
Your efforts are not wasted so don't get bummed. Your doing great- keep moving forward. try doubling the weight on your crimper for a better kill.
Thanks- yeah I’m going to play with the weight a little bit I think more importantly, I need to wait a little longer in the plant maturity cycle before I crimp. Thanks for sharing
This was a good video , nice work. Love the comparison 👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks!
I would think the remaining live buckwheat will be browsed by deer the remainder of the summer possibly reducing pressure on the brassicas. In my northern WI plots the deer don't wait till Fall to consume brassica, especially in dry years, so I usually have half my plots in clover to avoid early browse pressure on my brassica.
I can’t grow buckwheat here without an electric fence around it. So you are correct that the deer would normally browse that remaining buckwheat off but I have it fenced so unfortunately the buckwheat will finish its life cycle
Discing sandy soil isn't a good choice, typically. The ground where you terminated with the roller-crimper looks much better, to me, than the bare ground. Look at the results you're already getting from the brassica planting. If you had gone with a highly diverse fall mix, you could have grains, legumes, brassicas and forbs all coming up with the buckwheat. Keep in mind that the first frost is going to wipe out the buckwheat, anyway. Your idea of making a 2nd pass with the crimper is spot on! Do that and avoid the discing...you're on the right track.
Good ideas- thanks for sharing. I agree that discing (or tilling) sandy soul is not a desirable approach. I think if I keep at this organic buckwheat approach I’ll be able to reduce the discing for sure and perhaps someday stop it all together (probably need herbicide at that point).
@@northernforestwhitetail - I've been planting food plots for almost 10 years, using no-till methods, and the end result has been much less fertilizer needed and much better growth in the plots. The bonus is it takes a lot less time, money and equipment.
I think the ideal situation would be to terminate by Flailmowing after reseeding, that way you have a great layer of mulch
to help keep in moisture and give the new plants thatch to grow into.
Thanks
Dave
I like the idea- for my sandy soils, an organic layer of thatch is key. Thanks for sharing
I was wondering if you could bush hog or even sickle mow it? Would that kill it? A sickle bar would lay the stems down pretty similar to the roller
I had buckwheat this summer and last weekend I put in some of my fall brassicas. I mowed the buckwheat and then tilled it in. There's not as much thatch layer on top which isn't as ideal for holding moisture in (although this year maybe won't matter!), but I didn't trust just broadcasting and rolling over with a packer, just for getting the good soil to seed contact. My soil isn't sandy like yours and packing onto unprepped ground, with buckwheat layer in between, I didn't trust that for getting a good set in.
I think doing a disc would be better than the tilling I did just so I'm not always tilling the ground, but I don't have a disc yet. Maybe I'll get a disc for next year. I also don't like using the chemicals.
@@gregmulfort9577 nice work that should do it. I think if you do a shallow till it’s not the worst thing in the world for the soil. You can still build organic matter.
Very good video!!!
Thanks for watching 👍
Just a thought: would adding weight to the crimper make it more effective in crimping the flow of nutrients through the cellular structure of the stem. Based on your comment about the ATV wheels. What are your thoughts about brush cutting the BW vs crimping? If you or others commented on this I apologize in advance. I might have missed it. Thx.
I don’t think weight was the issue. I say that because there were actually areas where those crimped blades were severing the plants. So I feel like I was as heavy as I wanted it to be. Mowing may be another option but I think the most important thing is timing. I believe I terminated a little too early. When I do this next year I’m waiting until the plants begin to set pods (dough stage). That way the plant should have less ability to resume its growth after it has already fully committed to the reproductive cycle.
Good to know thank you. That’s helpful. Doing this next year and see how it goes. Having “mulch” makes a lot of sense.
Jeff stergous just done a great video on this and he said to crimp it when it's thigh high! If you don't it's alot harder to work with, timing is key to that!
@@troybrake5686 yeah Jeff always sprays his with herbicide while crimping. So it doesn’t matter what height he crimps his at if you spray it. You could crimp it 6” tall and the herbicide will take it out. I was trying to do mine without herbicide.
Love it. How did you seed it in? Also, have you looked at a multi species mix?
I did think about a multi species mix but stuck with the brassicas blend this year. Might mix it up next year. I planted the buckwheat at 80 lbs per acre and disced it in. I’m in sandy soil so having a little soil cover over the seed is critical where I’m at.
Great video. How many weeks after planting the buckwheat, did you roll it?
Thanks- I roller crimped it exactly 6 weeks after planting. When I planted, I disced the seed in (light/medium discing depth). That really helped the buckwheat get a strong start and excellent germination rate (vs just broadcasting on top of ground).
Broadcast your next plot into the standing BW next time. And maybe wait another week until its almost yellowish. Broadcast, crimp and stand back and watch the results... no glyphosate needed and you have an awesome mulch bed to help the seed germinate and to keep the soil cooler as well as retain more moisture. Nice looking BW, btw!
So you are saying terminate (roller crimp) later, correct? I think I may have may have jumped the gun by a week or two
@@northernforestwhitetail you got it! You had not let it get to the dough stage yet, it looked like to me. Wait another week or so and yes then roller crimp!
I keep my plot in perennials but broadcast buckwheat in the summer and rye in the fall.
I mow to terminate the rye in June but the buckwheat usually gets eaten and what doesn't, I just let go.
The more I food plot the more I see the appeal in perennials. Plus I like having soil cover at all times.
Thanks for share!
You bet
Unrelated question for you as i know you're knowledgeable. Have a 3pt tiller. Fall plot is in rye. Was planning to spray roundup memorial weekend next year and broadcast buckwheat as a cover crop for next year's fall plot. Can i just rototill the bucket wheat or will a 3pt tiller not terminate tall buckwheat very well? Not sure if it'd get wrapped around the tines the way tall rye does?
@@chadilacnissen9717 it won’t be quite as bad as rye but it can still cause you problems- would be better to mow/mulch the buckwheat first, then till. Would reduce binding of tiller
@@northernforestwhitetail Thanks Buddy!
Try going over with the crimper at a different angle each time 3 or 4 times
That makes a lot of sense what you are saying. Might have to try that next year.
Put chains on your 4 wheeler. Helps with crimping...
That’s a great idea- thanks for sharing. Might actually try that next year.
I use a lawn tractor disk harrow works really well.
Good to know- thanks for sharing
Interesting you did this. This year I crimped (with homemade crimper for the ATV) 1/2 of the B/W with gly and 1/2 without. Of course the gly side died. The other 1/2 had the same results you did. I then weed whacked heads off 1/2 of the ones that "survived" and will see what happens. For some reason I have seen much better germination with the gly area but I suspect this may be because it was not shaded by the B/W leaves'.
Sounds like you and I had the same idea. But I’m curious to hear how your additional test turns out. Keep me posted and thanks for sharing 👍
Well it's been close to a month shave grown well since I tried my "experiment". The final conclusion for me is I will spray the entire b/w field next year. Just overall better results by killing it with the gly. Just crimping did kill I would say 70%. Flowering plants did not really grow much higher but even weed wacking them did not stop the growth and many have seeded out. I am not to worried about the seeds growing this late and the rye and radishes will keep them from growing and cooler weather should help stunt any b/w growth. The rye and the rads have grown well anyway but I think ait has been a little better where the gly was used. I only am using 3 small plots of maybe 1/2 acre total so spraying the gly is not a big cost for me. Good luck hunting!
Have you ever tried a lawn roller first? That would simulate your tires.
I haven’t no just because I don’t have one. But I bet that would work fine
Hey I noticed you have some bounce in your crimper, from what I understand this is why they build them with a triangle pattern, to prevent that. I just wonder if maybe that's why you didn't terminate like you wanted.
Yeah it is a bit jumpy… but I designed it that way so it had more of an impact on the plant stems. But you are right that’s why they do the chevron patterns so it rolls steadier. In that case you would need to add quite a bit of weight to get the downward pressure.
Crimping will not give the result (mulch) your looking for without glysophate and 24d, the minimal use and restrictive use of chemicals will not harm the animals and only add to the quality of your mulch.
I tend to agree with the part about not getting the desired mulch effect without the use of herbicides. So, why is it that folks on RUclips claim you can do a totally organic no-till? I’m genuinely trying to understand. I wish it was that simple (organic no-till). However, based on all the research I could find plus my own experiments, I’m finding that a sustainable organic no-till system is extremely difficult at best and impossible at worst. At least in terms of deer attraction.
Why would you want to not use roundup ?
It’s a chemical that I’d like to avoid if I can find a way. Not totally opposed to it. Just looking for ways to avoid its use if I can. Cancer link? Endocrine disrupters? Folks will argue it’s neither. But do we really know that for certain? Lots of ppl have cancer on the US unfortunately. To be clear I have no idea if there is a link but if I can avoid its use, why not try.
@@northernforestwhitetailit’s odd to me how many people seem to not think twice about covering their land with chemicals. Not to mention eating the animals that consume the chemicals. Is there a link? I don’t know for sure but it’s worth avoiding if you can
@@yanksfan6833 exactly- thanks for sharing
After crimping, did you disk immediately or wait for a bit?
@@RJ-qq8kb waited just a few days for the area I did disc. That seemed to help
@@northernforestwhitetail May I ask what disc you use? Atv? Tractor?
@@RJ-qq8kb you bet- I have an ATV style disc with adjustable gangs
@@northernforestwhitetail pic?
Perhaps The roller needed a/bit more mass.
Relax. No herbicide, in my opinion is good. Living roots still in your soil, in my opinion is good. There is much more green in the crimped only side. If / when your brassicas canopy, they will again shade weeds. Then compare the two options. I do not anticipate the buckwheat stunting your brassicas.
The crimped and disced side is still more bare ground than the crimped only side. Can you mow? Since you e-fence, I suspect that your brassicas will grow well. The resulting canopy may even shade your buckwheat. I do not use herbicide on anything where I am trying to feed deer and other wildlife.
No herbicide and living roots are what I’m going for. I’m not totally against this roller crimped method. Will continue experimenting. Thanks for watching
I think you just needed more weight on the crimper to really get a good break on the plant.
It’s possible. Although I was getting some plants actually cut off when the blade went over them in thin areas. This year I’m going to probably add a little weight and let the plants mature by a couple more weeks.
But,,,,,, your radish's will get choked out by the re-gen buckwheat. Yes, the buckwheat will die at the first frost. By then it will be to late to establish a descent brassica/radish plot. Just my 2 cents.
Oh I agree with you 100%. That’s one of my concerns here. The buckwheat will need to die soon if the brassicas are going to have a chance (before our first frost). I’m hoping the volunteer buckwheat is minimal enough to where the brassicas still have a chance.
Why are you guys scared of a little glysophate?
I’m not sure that I’d use the word “scared”. It is proven to kill pollinator species, there is a possible link to non-Hodgkin Lymphoma cancer (not proven), and is linked to endocrine disrupters, etc, etc. I realize that many people have used it for years without any issue (including my friends and family). I’ve just thought: if there is a way to avoid it, why not try to avoid it? Some folks say glyphosate is harmless, inert, and absolutely harmless the second it touches pond water. But if that’s true, then why does the manufacturer say to wear a respirator mask and plastic gloves when handling it? I’m not trying to spread something that’s not true (I.e. say it’s directly linked to cancer), but with the preponderance of circumstantial evidence out there, I’ve just tried to find ways to avoid using it.
You sir are thinking correctly! Keep up the great work.
Of you can farm without it, why not? Plus that stuff isn't quite free either.
@@jesse4530 exactly