Tarkin: *ends Cloning program because of loyalty issues Clone naval officer who took a blaster bolt to save Tarkin during the Citadel rescue mission: 😐
Very interesting, I very much agree on that the empire basically dug their own grave when they discontinued the clone trooper program since they are so much more superior compared to recruits.
I disagree actually, the reason why the empire failed wasn’t because of the storm troopers. It was because the empire kept putting all of their eggs in one basket being the massive super expensive weapons such as the Death Star. When the rebel alliance tried to invade the mid rim and fight the empire head on, they got their asses handed to them and had to do a full scale retreat. The galactic civil war was a war for hearts and minds, not a war of who can take over a planet.
@@randomrazr The Jango Fett clones would've seen the end of production, because the genetic material was degrading, also clones can be programed, the Kaminoans could have hidden cloning facilities and are able to create a clone army in secret to further their aims
@@randomrazr the 501st became Vader’s fist and fought all the way to the battles of hoth according to the extended cannon from battlefront 2. They handled a lot of different battles and won them. But they were to little.
The Empire was entirely right to transition away from the all-clone army to a recruited force. Not because of the cost or anything silly like that - the cost of the clone army is absolutely trivial in comparison to the economy of half the galaxy. No, the fact is that the clone army _never_ made sense as the primary fighting force for the Republic. It took too long to create new clones, which meant that there was no responsiveness or flexibility in the pipeline of new recruits. It takes a couple of months to run a recruited civilian through basic training, so if you have a sudden need for lots of new soldiers, you can increase recruitment or conscription, and have your new forces ready to go within a couple of months. With the clone army, there's no such responsiveness; it takes ten years to grow and train a clone, full stop. You also have a single point of failure. If the Separatists had concentrated all of their efforts on Kamino, they could have destroyed the GAR with a single victory. If, on the other hand, the Republic had recruitment centers and boot camps on, say, ten thousand planets - which is easily within their means - then there's absolutely no chance they could all be wiped out. This also feeds into another problem, which is that Kamino is a massive production bottleneck. There's only so much you can do to ramp up production on a single planet, whereas those ten thousand worlds could be churning out thousands of troops every month. If you want an army that can _garrison_ the Empire, you need numbers - and Kamino can't provide them. The clones were always a tool designed for a specific job - killing the Jedi. Having completed that job, the fundamental impracticality of the army is catching up with them. The Kaminoans think that Tarkin is there to decide whether the clones should be replaced by recruits. He isn't. That's already been decided. Tarkin is there to decide if there is any further use for the clones at all.
My dude. I read this instead of watching the video. This is a BRILLIANT summarisation of the transition. Do you mind if I copy it so I can refer to this when I inevitably get into an argument with my mates?
Sparti Clones: Bruh... In all seriousness this is pretty well thought out and well but that's what the Republic did as well, the main army if the Republic was Clones but there were millions of regular recruits.
Vader & Thrawn were better tacticians knowing the Defender program is much better, but we know Director Krennic was quite persuasive for Stardust. Cutting ties with Kamino was reasonable, the extra credits could be invested on better things rather than Stardust's extreme cost.
In legends Tarkin had a soft spot for one clone who saved his life and also protecting Tarkin so Tarkin kept him in the army as a captain maybe something to add .
I believe that, while cost of the Death Star might be also his concern, he mostly uses money argument due to politics. It sounds better than "I don't personally trust them", specially that openly saying that you believe your entire army is disloyal and might betray you, might not be the smartest move when you still pretty much relay on it. Also, it's worth remembering that both inhibitor chips and death star are top secret, so they can't be used as an argument. Also, Kaminoan cloners are still a private company and Kamino most likely is still an independent planet. There wasn't really much stopping them from telling everyone why Empire had cancelled a program that they entire economy had heavily replied on. And there would be a lot of people asking that question. Also, while emperor definitely holds more power, it is important to remember that senate still pretty much exist and, even if not holding much power, politicans still might object the enscription and draft among the population. And as the whole reason of having a clone army was to not have normal people die in war, I believe many might now object idea of enscription. Also, the Clone Army just won them a war, so it would be the worst time to mentionthe idea of their replacement. So the Empire still needs to have some good political arguments on why they want to get read of the clones. And argument about their cost was there basically since the beginning of war, so it would be logical to use it
Stormtroopers were originally well trained soldiers in the original trilogy, but when Disney baught star wars they made them a laughing matter. But yes clones is better
I’d love to see a clone uprising where all the clones don’t have chips (maybe including the 501st and other legions we know of) and are fighting stormtroopers because of their own free will (obviously they’ll fail and most will die, but that’s a happier ending for them than serving the empire till death)
if tarkin was actually a smart military strategist, he would've made sure to get Kamino to create less effective clones for much cheaper, but in bulk to give the Empire an edge in sheer numbers. basically making a wall of recreatable flesh, and only get a few specific specialist clones with desirable mutations involved in each particular mission, like Crosshair or Hunter.
I think the best thing to do on the empires part would be to continue making small batches of arc trooper clones which would be in squads like Crosshairs new squad
To be honest the Kaminoians could have created a secret clone army with thier own control chips to specifically take down Palpatine. Unless they k ow he was a Sith Lord and could use the Force. Then they may have felt it was a lost cause to fight against that unlimited power.
I think if empire would spent credits on building army and expanding rather than building 2 death stars what both would be destroyed would the empire maybe survived almost even if Sidious and Vader dies. I don't think Luke only himself could bring the empire down or at least it would be lot harder, because Luke wasn't even trained yet.
Ya something very similar happened in legends they never stopped using clones but they cleaned out the conminoiw and made there own clones using there most loyal and skilled soldiers has stock
replace clones trained from birth that learn combat super fast, with mediocre trainees that can barely shoot a rifle let alone hit anything that is not taped to the end of they'r blasters.
Clones aren't nearly as effective as the fan base makes them out to be. Just look at the most devastating defeats of clone legions and look at that they were annihilated by regular forces that weren't droids
The empire pouring all its resources into the 2 Death Stars was a dick move. If they had someone like thrawn as grand moff, I think he would undoubtedly keep the clone army and invest in the strength of the imperial navy. The empire would have been unrivalled for many years.
I think the idea of trooper loyalty to the empire may not pan out as they expected. We saw some recruits in the previous episode grateful to the empire’s opportunity, but unwilling to do absolutely everything they are asked. Factor in that some conscripts may not be as loyal, and some volunteers may just sign up for the pay check.
If i remember correctly. The empire was going to spend a lot on 2 death stars and palpatines secret fleet. So yeah the end to the empire was budget cuts
On the other hand it's quite possible that the new clones could have been reprogramed (or have chips removed) by the Rebels or Rex and join the Rebels, if the empire kept making new clones
Not really, going back over the episodes where the chips were involved, it took either the Force to reveal where it was or a highly detailed scan from a state of the art medical facility in order to find and remove them. As for reprogramming, that would require the kaminoans themselves to do that. Either way, its a highly risky process that would probably case more problems especially for the Rebel Alliance and certainly for Rex who has very few resources in order to do this. Not only that but the inhibitor chips would likely not be in the same region as the Jango Fett's clones because new donors would be necessary and to prevent tampering it could be buried deeper into the brain making the process of extraction impossible without being fatal.
@@CalistFitness It may not be impossible but its sure as hell less likely to happen in comparison to using conscripts. It would make the rebel alliance's life even more of a living hell than it was originally.
Empire: relying on clone soldiers is not cost effective anymore Also Empire: lets us rely on building a single superweapon as big as a moon and cost massive resources that could rival thousands of battleships. Also also Empire: lets do it again, after the first one got destroyed. Also also also Empire (technically): lets make it planet sized, on the planet that we used to gather it's power source for the previous ones. Also also also also Empire (technically x2): Let's make thousands of battle ships, each mounted with the technology of the death star weapon. I don't think "fundings and resources" was ever a problem for the Empire...
I just love the bad batch and the animation style is just so gorgeous. I just hope for a Vader cameo. The time in between episode 3 and 4 is very interesting so I am super hyped! Also sad seeing all of our clone bois now being rude :(
The Empire and Tarkin's paranoia really helped lead to the Rebels eventual victory. Now of course they had every right in distrusting the Kaminoans because it just makes sense since they could literally create a clone army that could turn on the Empire. But that doesn't mean they had to abandon using clones and really shouldn't have because one Jango clone was worth 5 enlisted normal born humans. Instead of wasting all that money on one Death Star they could have instead created their own cloning facilities overseen by their own Imperial scientists. Instead focusing on building up a larger Force of clones, ships and vehicles. And then maybe later on focusing on giant man made moon bases that could destroy planets.
Storm troopers aren't the issue it's just plot armour stormtroopers were very effective and actually dominated most ground battles in the galactic civil war the empire only ever really lost in space combat
@@jonbragg5175 wouldn't they be able to work better together because they are brothers an knowing each others strengths an weaknesses be able to overcome nearly all problems except the death star 1 getting blown up.
I wish they would do an alternate Star Wars movie return of the Sith where order 66 isn’t activated and anakin hesitates and palpating knocks him out or tries to fight him or just all out flees, and order 65 is activated instead or if the inhibitor chips are found out sooner just one really good movie alternate movie where everything goes right. I’m big Star Wars fan but it always makes me wonder what if there was alternate to it, like some movies do an alternate ending from the original a what big what if, it will never happen I know but I wish it would
I actually REALLY want to see a kamino rebellion in the bad batch. It would be so cool to see, instead of the all white armour of the empires troops (calling them that because they aren’t quite stormtroopers yet) the kaminoans let their troops customize again like the Jedi did. Then to see a battle with the bad batch helping the kaminoans rebellion vs the empire and their brainwashed troops would be incredible. I would love to see how different the clones act as well, the kaminoan clones would probably be less in numbers but a lot more creative where the empires would have more troops but they basically have their thinking decreased because of their programming
Plus the Tarkin Doctrine throws money at battleships (Imperial class Star Destroyers, Super Star Destroyers and Death Stars), so financial reasons is unlikely to be a true reason :-)
Honestly if they were worried about costs and wanted great soldiers for the empire what the empire should have done is turned the clones into commanders and trainers for recruits give them higher up positions also you wouldn't need the amount of clones the Republic would need for a sustained war but if you imagine storm troopers trained by clone Troopers you may still get a bit of diminish in skill but not to where the empire was by a new hope.
The Empire was in New Hope the same as the Romans after the fall of Nero. They just weren't as effective. The Empire was too big for its breaches and started to crumble due to its size and economic disparity from within.
Civilians are cheaper to produce than clones who require everything from housing, nurturing and training whereas normal people could share the burden plus it allows for diversity in skills and problem solving
If tarkin views clones as droids, what you say makes sense. Basically, the fact that the control chip doesn't work 100% of the time means their programming is unreliable (even though it works most of the time). Droid programming is more reliable (though uncreative). With all of that said, tarkin and his associates often contradict themselves. Sometimes they talk about using voluntary enlistment (which actually could produce reliably loyal soldiers), other times they refer to using forced conscription (or a mandatory draft), which would usually be less reliable in terms of loyalty. The group that tarkin forms under crosshairs' command definitely seems to be made up of volunteers or career soldiers at least.
You need to consider that the Republic was going bankrupt during the Clone Wars. The Empire at this point isn't any less broke as they are. So, money might actually be legitimate even without the deathstar.
but one thing still doesn't add up. if the stormtroopers really were as incompetent as their portrayal, how was the empire able to rule the galaxy for two decades?
The imperial navy, regional governors, the Imperial army was mostly based on survival of the fittest, it's the fear that keeps some of the worlds in line
While that would be true, Rex and the few other clones that managed to rebel would have aged faster than the new batch, not only that but the Empire would require brand new donors since the Jango Fett DNA is being stretched to its limit. Change the access codes and completely phase out the Jango clones, suddenly that very hard becomes a "Not going to happen" situation which would make infiltration damned near impossible as a result.
I don’t think stormtroopers were bad at their jobs in the OT (other than return of the Jedi) and rouge one but unfortunately they were in things like rebels and mandolarian
I think the original legends version of the clones and the rebellion ( kamino) makes a lot more sense , using new templates and natural growth for a long term army training by clones with veterans in special units like the 501st , and an 8 year timeline plus leading up to civil war makes much better sense , and they are already going off new canon with tarkin.
The Clone Army of Jango Fett, the Spaarti clones of Jango Fett and ordinary citizens recruited with the same uniform Armor that would be a largest Army in the Galaxy
You seem to be saying Tarkin chose to phase out the clones, but a large part of why he is in power is because he is cold and brilliant . He has enough political sense to see where things are heading and yet has a very military attitude of follow orders. Also palpatine likes to see his subordinates at odds. He makes that clear with the Tarkin / Vader relationship. My point being although Palpatine gave Tarkin a lot of power , He wouldn't have let Tarkin make such a big choice alone. I believe Palpatine already wanted to phase out the clones when he sent Tarkin to Kamino. Also I agree the money line is BS . If Palpatine wanted more clones He would have made it happen. Even if that meant occupying Kamino . What do you guys think on the possibility Palpatine wanted to get rid of clones in part to keep cloning technology to himself as part of his attempts to find lasting life as shown in the Rise of Skywalker movie?
Please have closed captions come on cuz I have a very hard time understanding of what you been saying in so many videos you made nevertheless outstanding videos you made and thank you
omg you just open my eyes you are maybe right the empire should have keep clones because they are indeed superior then humans and you are right the rebels would struggle to take clones down
The only thing I don’t like about this is that Tarkin used the failure of Clone Force 99 as an excuse to phase the clones out, despite the fact that Clone Force 99 were exceptions to the norm (their mutations having rendered their control chips inert), and regular clones would never have failed. That said, it DOES make sense that financial stuff would be part of the reason.
The thing is, the Empire controlled most of the Galaxy. They dont needed a highly trained army because they conquered nearly everything allready. My thought is that Stoormtroopers are more Policemen then Soldiers. The other thing is how many Clones do you want to create in order to place them everywhere in the Galaxy??? It would have needed decades to place them all over the Galaxy.
Death Star was so large, perhaps it had cloning 🔬 🧫🧬 facilities. Was hugh for sum reason 🤔. And we know it already had area for science for military applications. And on board training facilities. I'm not talking about Jango strain. The Empire would without a doubt have their own ideal for things new.
I think we are all over thinking this, the clones had a flaw it was applied against the Jedi/ could be against palpa funds could be freed up for Death Star owning your supply chain ect i think its mainly the clones have fulfilled there purpose and are no longer needed in new batches
Whoever Tarkin is, he is not a lawyer. The Empire is a successor to the Republic & so all contracts signed by the Republic (& essentially the same person in Palpatine) would still be in force in any successor Empire.
He should be moff tarkin by this point during revenge of the Sith right after corusant battle, the fighting did last for almost four years the separatists holdout campaign and reconquest of the mid and other rim , plus punitive action. The war was still raging in many places
These are some good ressons for cutting the cloning facility but honestly there are even more reasons. An army made up of your citizens will make it less likely for rebellions to occur as they dont want to fight their own people. Alos the government became the biggest employer overnight and being able to employ billions if not trillions of people into the Empires army is a big moral boost for the people. There was that one trooper that (yes he got killed by Crosshair) had a point. He had a job, food, clothing, and a roof over his head. More than the repunlic did for them. That speaks volumes about how pissed off people were with the republic as he certainly wasnt alone in his feelings. So many reasons for getting rid of the clone troopers that on one hand destroyed the Empire eely on but at the same time wsnt necessarily the only thing that killed the Empire.
personally I prefer they kept it to clones, it makes the Storm troopers seem human if they use conscripts and I know in the EU there are plenty of conscripts
@@nightgoji3592 As much as I want to agree with you that it's Thire, I also think it might be a different high ranking Shock Trooper because Palpatine ordered Thire to look for Yoda's body in Revenge of the Sith. It obviously can't be Fox for numerous reasons, Thorn is dead, so that only leaves Commander Stone, a Shock Trooper commander that in a episode in Season 1 of the Clone Wars.
The empire was about control not conquest and so rather than having an offensive force who are completely alien to many people since they are no different from glorified cows with rifles than actual people and so it makes it harder for people to sympathize with clones such as the case with crosshairs or at the space ports
Tarkin: *ends Cloning program because of loyalty issues
Clone naval officer who took a blaster bolt to save Tarkin during the Citadel rescue mission: 😐
@David Harmon They did that out of loyalty to the Chancellor
@David Harmon the chip said the jedi betrayed the republic.
I am a really big Star Wars fan
The Jedi are traders
In the clowns are just following orders
The bad batch is literally the best animated show I’ve ever seen on Disney+ and I cannot wait for the new season of the Mandalorian
@@ALX_Fitness91 George?
How dare you insult the sacred texts. AKA the clone wars
@@overheadcastle1 Yeah lol especially season 5 and 7
ypu should watch the clone wars
@@ALX_Fitness91 His name is Jon Favreau
Very interesting, I very much agree on that the empire basically dug their own grave when they discontinued the clone trooper program since they are so much more superior compared to recruits.
I disagree actually, the reason why the empire failed wasn’t because of the storm troopers. It was because the empire kept putting all of their eggs in one basket being the massive super expensive weapons such as the Death Star. When the rebel alliance tried to invade the mid rim and fight the empire head on, they got their asses handed to them and had to do a full scale retreat. The galactic civil war was a war for hearts and minds, not a war of who can take over a planet.
clones would have crushed the rebellion
@@randomrazr The Jango Fett clones would've seen the end of production, because the genetic material was degrading, also clones can be programed, the Kaminoans could have hidden cloning facilities and are able to create a clone army in secret to further their aims
@@censoredquotes the problem wasn't the death star the problem Is papa palplatine didn't let his massive fleet engage the rebels
@@randomrazr the 501st became Vader’s fist and fought all the way to the battles of hoth according to the extended cannon from battlefront 2. They handled a lot of different battles and won them. But they were to little.
Think he wanted to get rid of them because he did not trust them. He thinks they could betray him at any moment. With a order from above.
Makes since didn't think of that
you got a point
yes that was mentioned in the video. thanks for repeating what we all heard!
@@11bc22 ⁰⁰⁰⁰⁰
But the fact that he surrounds himself with 4 shock troopers defeats that point
The Empire was entirely right to transition away from the all-clone army to a recruited force. Not because of the cost or anything silly like that - the cost of the clone army is absolutely trivial in comparison to the economy of half the galaxy. No, the fact is that the clone army _never_ made sense as the primary fighting force for the Republic.
It took too long to create new clones, which meant that there was no responsiveness or flexibility in the pipeline of new recruits. It takes a couple of months to run a recruited civilian through basic training, so if you have a sudden need for lots of new soldiers, you can increase recruitment or conscription, and have your new forces ready to go within a couple of months. With the clone army, there's no such responsiveness; it takes ten years to grow and train a clone, full stop.
You also have a single point of failure. If the Separatists had concentrated all of their efforts on Kamino, they could have destroyed the GAR with a single victory. If, on the other hand, the Republic had recruitment centers and boot camps on, say, ten thousand planets - which is easily within their means - then there's absolutely no chance they could all be wiped out. This also feeds into another problem, which is that Kamino is a massive production bottleneck. There's only so much you can do to ramp up production on a single planet, whereas those ten thousand worlds could be churning out thousands of troops every month. If you want an army that can _garrison_ the Empire, you need numbers - and Kamino can't provide them.
The clones were always a tool designed for a specific job - killing the Jedi. Having completed that job, the fundamental impracticality of the army is catching up with them. The Kaminoans think that Tarkin is there to decide whether the clones should be replaced by recruits. He isn't. That's already been decided. Tarkin is there to decide if there is any further use for the clones at all.
My dude. I read this instead of watching the video. This is a BRILLIANT summarisation of the transition.
Do you mind if I copy it so I can refer to this when I inevitably get into an argument with my mates?
@@jonw4743 'Mind'? I'm honoured!
Wow, you are a lore god
Well, no. There’s specific clones that were made to be made quickly
Sparti Clones: Bruh...
In all seriousness this is pretty well thought out and well but that's what the Republic did as well, the main army if the Republic was Clones but there were millions of regular recruits.
I like the legends version of why the empire replaced the clones even though how sad it is (I mean the kamino rebellion or changing of the guard)
@Cody Brock Yeah hopefully
@@lordvader1672 I don't doubt it because without a doubt Filoni knows about the OG Battlefront 2 Kamino uprising
@@Spongebrain97 Yeah I'm sure he does
yeah bad batch is a great show n can't wait for book of Boba fett
Tarkin makes my blood boil. I grew up watching the clone wars and to see the characters I’ve grown to love become mindless meat droids is sad man
Star Wars Comics,the gift that keeps on giving us spectacular content
I feel like he wanted to be right by palps side or to do palps bidding
Tarkin was the highest ranking officer and he was below vader just because he's palpatines apprentice
Thank you guys for the 66 likes :)
Tarkin just looks like he aged faster than obi wan
Then don't look at Yularen from S7 since he looks quadruple aged, Seriously.
@@FrederickTheAnon14W we don’t talk about it lol
And it seems he shrinked alot aswell.
@@FrederickTheAnon14W he aged like 30 years in one season
We don’t talk about it.
Vader & Thrawn were better tacticians knowing the Defender program is much better, but we know Director Krennic was quite persuasive for Stardust. Cutting ties with Kamino was reasonable, the extra credits could be invested on better things rather than Stardust's extreme cost.
In legends Tarkin had a soft spot for one clone who saved his life and also protecting Tarkin so Tarkin kept him in the army as a captain maybe something to add .
Star wars comics keep doing what your doing I love your channel. Your a LEGEND star wars comics have a good night
I believe that, while cost of the Death Star might be also his concern, he mostly uses money argument due to politics. It sounds better than "I don't personally trust them", specially that openly saying that you believe your entire army is disloyal and might betray you, might not be the smartest move when you still pretty much relay on it. Also, it's worth remembering that both inhibitor chips and death star are top secret, so they can't be used as an argument. Also, Kaminoan cloners are still a private company and Kamino most likely is still an independent planet. There wasn't really much stopping them from telling everyone why Empire had cancelled a program that they entire economy had heavily replied on. And there would be a lot of people asking that question.
Also, while emperor definitely holds more power, it is important to remember that senate still pretty much exist and, even if not holding much power, politicans still might object the enscription and draft among the population. And as the whole reason of having a clone army was to not have normal people die in war, I believe many might now object idea of enscription. Also, the Clone Army just won them a war, so it would be the worst time to mentionthe idea of their replacement. So the Empire still needs to have some good political arguments on why they want to get read of the clones. And argument about their cost was there basically since the beginning of war, so it would be logical to use it
Stormtroopers were originally well trained soldiers in the original trilogy, but when Disney baught star wars they made them a laughing matter. But yes clones is better
I’d love to see a clone uprising where all the clones don’t have chips (maybe including the 501st and other legions we know of) and are fighting stormtroopers because of their own free will (obviously they’ll fail and most will die, but that’s a happier ending for them than serving the empire till death)
I never knew Admiral Tarkin hated Clones. I can see why he sees the bad Batch as a a threat.
Damn! And clones rescued Tarkin and Jedi Master Piell from the citadel…
Piell died doe
if tarkin was actually a smart military strategist, he would've made sure to get Kamino to create less effective clones for much cheaper, but in bulk to give the Empire an edge in sheer numbers. basically making a wall of recreatable flesh, and only get a few specific specialist clones with desirable mutations involved in each particular mission, like Crosshair or Hunter.
I think the best thing to do on the empires part would be to continue making small batches of arc trooper clones which would be in squads like Crosshairs new squad
To be honest the Kaminoians could have created a secret clone army with thier own control chips to specifically take down Palpatine. Unless they k ow he was a Sith Lord and could use the Force. Then they may have felt it was a lost cause to fight against that unlimited power.
Love your content man, it makes StarWars so much better!😉
Is mine good?
@@starforce6699 I haven’t seen your content before but I’m sure it’s good!😉
When I was younger, I thought stormtroopers were clone trooper in phase 3 armour
I think if empire would spent credits on building army and expanding rather than building 2 death stars what both would be destroyed would the empire maybe survived almost even if Sidious and Vader dies. I don't think Luke only himself could bring the empire down or at least it would be lot harder, because Luke wasn't even trained yet.
Great video
The destruction of Kamino is the butterfly effect at its best
Ya something very similar happened in legends they never stopped using clones but they cleaned out the conminoiw and made there own clones using there most loyal and skilled soldiers has stock
“All warfare is based on deception.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My take was, The Empire did not want what they did to the Jedi (Order 66) happen to themselves by the off-chance.
Great video as always
So we replace clones with inferior gaurdsmen.
replace clones trained from birth that learn combat super fast, with mediocre trainees that can barely shoot a rifle let alone hit anything that is not taped to the end of they'r blasters.
Yes Inquisitor, this comment right here.
Not every planet can be like krieg
Clones aren't nearly as effective as the fan base makes them out to be. Just look at the most devastating defeats of clone legions and look at that they were annihilated by regular forces that weren't droids
Cheap way to grow the army
The empire pouring all its resources into the 2 Death Stars was a dick move. If they had someone like thrawn as grand moff, I think he would undoubtedly keep the clone army and invest in the strength of the imperial navy. The empire would have been unrivalled for many years.
Even tho he died in the first one
I think the idea of trooper loyalty to the empire may not pan out as they expected. We saw some recruits in the previous episode grateful to the empire’s opportunity, but unwilling to do absolutely everything they are asked. Factor in that some conscripts may not be as loyal, and some volunteers may just sign up for the pay check.
If i remember correctly. The empire was going to spend a lot on 2 death stars and palpatines secret fleet. So yeah the end to the empire was budget cuts
This is interesting and awesome
I agree
On the other hand it's quite possible that the new clones could have been reprogramed (or have chips removed) by the Rebels or Rex and join the Rebels, if the empire kept making new clones
Well the thing is there will be some Clones, even without chips, some will still be with the Empire, like Commander Fox
Not really, going back over the episodes where the chips were involved, it took either the Force to reveal where it was or a highly detailed scan from a state of the art medical facility in order to find and remove them. As for reprogramming, that would require the kaminoans themselves to do that. Either way, its a highly risky process that would probably case more problems especially for the Rebel Alliance and certainly for Rex who has very few resources in order to do this. Not only that but the inhibitor chips would likely not be in the same region as the Jango Fett's clones because new donors would be necessary and to prevent tampering it could be buried deeper into the brain making the process of extraction impossible without being fatal.
@@edwinrosario3849 Still it's not impossible and I partially get why the empire didn't want to keep clones
@@CalistFitness It may not be impossible but its sure as hell less likely to happen in comparison to using conscripts. It would make the rebel alliance's life even more of a living hell than it was originally.
This is cool
Anyone else notice Tarkin is wearing a Grand Moff rank plaques at 0:21 seconds, but in almost if not every other shot he wears an Admiral Plaque?
Empire: relying on clone soldiers is not cost effective anymore
Also Empire: lets us rely on building a single superweapon as big as a moon and cost massive resources that could rival thousands of battleships.
Also also Empire: lets do it again, after the first one got destroyed.
Also also also Empire (technically): lets make it planet sized, on the planet that we used to gather it's power source for the previous ones.
Also also also also Empire (technically x2): Let's make thousands of battle ships, each mounted with the technology of the death star weapon.
I don't think "fundings and resources" was ever a problem for the Empire...
Tarkin sure did age a lot in the two years between Clone Wars season 6 and the Bad Batch.
I love the shout out to Accountants since I’m an Accountant myself 😂😂
Man, if the empire had clones against the rebels, thats ggs for the rebels
Thanks for the update bro
You predicted what happened today. Kamino was sunken in the ocean.
Wooo
I just love the bad batch and the animation style is just so gorgeous. I just hope for a Vader cameo. The time in between episode 3 and 4 is very interesting so I am super hyped! Also sad seeing all of our clone bois now being rude :(
Why wouldn’t there be a Vader cameo?
@@T0pMan15 I don't know! But you never know, if they really do it. Honestly a Rogue One style cameo would absolutely do it for me
Let's just clone our best everything; best doctor, lawyer, scientist, soldier, etc...and all of us can just be obsolete.
The Empire and Tarkin's paranoia really helped lead to the Rebels eventual victory. Now of course they had every right in distrusting the Kaminoans because it just makes sense since they could literally create a clone army that could turn on the Empire. But that doesn't mean they had to abandon using clones and really shouldn't have because one Jango clone was worth 5 enlisted normal born humans. Instead of wasting all that money on one Death Star they could have instead created their own cloning facilities overseen by their own Imperial scientists. Instead focusing on building up a larger Force of clones, ships and vehicles. And then maybe later on focusing on giant man made moon bases that could destroy planets.
Storm troopers aren't the issue it's just plot armour stormtroopers were very effective and actually dominated most ground battles in the galactic civil war the empire only ever really lost in space combat
7:26 I am reminded of whenever Cinima Sins says "the Star Wars school of shooting things".
I am so in love with this Chanel
Why don't we ever see tarkin an gidion together seeing that they are brothers??
they're both two power hungry, they'd just be rivals if anything.
@@jonbragg5175 wouldn't they be able to work better together because they are brothers an knowing each others strengths an weaknesses be able to overcome nearly all problems except the death star 1 getting blown up.
@@joshpeet9285 You seem to forget how powerbases work, Thrawn had his own as well as Gideon, they're rivals.
@@joshpeet9285 why do you say that Tarkin and Gideon are brothers? That doesnt make sense.
@@treinenliefde because they are brothers
I wish they would do an alternate Star Wars movie return of the Sith where order 66 isn’t activated and anakin hesitates and palpating knocks him out or tries to fight him or just all out flees, and order 65 is activated instead or if the inhibitor chips are found out sooner just one really good movie alternate movie where everything goes right. I’m big Star Wars fan but it always makes me wonder what if there was alternate to it, like some movies do an alternate ending from the original a what big what if, it will never happen I know but I wish it would
I think the Empire not alike came to their highest point during this time period but as you mentioned they also started a slow decline.
I think that the Clone Shock Trooper Commander we see in Bad Batch when the Jedi body was taken out may be Commander Thire!
Nice channel my full support
I actually REALLY want to see a kamino rebellion in the bad batch. It would be so cool to see, instead of the all white armour of the empires troops (calling them that because they aren’t quite stormtroopers yet) the kaminoans let their troops customize again like the Jedi did. Then to see a battle with the bad batch helping the kaminoans rebellion vs the empire and their brainwashed troops would be incredible. I would love to see how different the clones act as well, the kaminoan clones would probably be less in numbers but a lot more creative where the empires would have more troops but they basically have their thinking decreased because of their programming
Plus the Tarkin Doctrine throws money at battleships (Imperial class Star Destroyers, Super Star Destroyers and Death Stars), so financial reasons is unlikely to be a true reason :-)
Honestly if they were worried about costs and wanted great soldiers for the empire what the empire should have done is turned the clones into commanders and trainers for recruits give them higher up positions also you wouldn't need the amount of clones the Republic would need for a sustained war but if you imagine storm troopers trained by clone Troopers you may still get a bit of diminish in skill but not to where the empire was by a new hope.
The Empire was in New Hope the same as the Romans after the fall of Nero. They just weren't as effective. The Empire was too big for its breaches and started to crumble due to its size and economic disparity from within.
Civilians are cheaper to produce than clones who require everything from housing, nurturing and training whereas normal people could share the burden plus it allows for diversity in skills and problem solving
LOL problem solving, seems they couldn't problem solve themselve's out of bad aim. The top point is valid.
The Empire would have screwed the Caminoains, they would have joined the Rebels and taken the Clones with them.
CLONES!!!!!!!
In my opinion if they had kept the clones in service, they keep the order so much easier.
It’s like putting your life on the line whilst strapped to a self driving car
tarkin always hated clones
He looks like that squidward meme
If tarkin views clones as droids, what you say makes sense. Basically, the fact that the control chip doesn't work 100% of the time means their programming is unreliable (even though it works most of the time). Droid programming is more reliable (though uncreative). With all of that said, tarkin and his associates often contradict themselves. Sometimes they talk about using voluntary enlistment (which actually could produce reliably loyal soldiers), other times they refer to using forced conscription (or a mandatory draft), which would usually be less reliable in terms of loyalty. The group that tarkin forms under crosshairs' command definitely seems to be made up of volunteers or career soldiers at least.
You need to consider that the Republic was going bankrupt during the Clone Wars. The Empire at this point isn't any less broke as they are. So, money might actually be legitimate even without the deathstar.
but one thing still doesn't add up. if the stormtroopers really were as incompetent as their portrayal, how was the empire able to rule the galaxy for two decades?
The imperial navy, regional governors, the Imperial army was mostly based on survival of the fittest, it's the fear that keeps some of the worlds in line
Through fear, tyranny, and big big BIG booms
It's very hard for rebels to dress up as clone troopers vs as a stormtrooper (very hard but not impossible because rex and a few other clones)
While that would be true, Rex and the few other clones that managed to rebel would have aged faster than the new batch, not only that but the Empire would require brand new donors since the Jango Fett DNA is being stretched to its limit. Change the access codes and completely phase out the Jango clones, suddenly that very hard becomes a "Not going to happen" situation which would make infiltration damned near impossible as a result.
I don’t think stormtroopers were bad at their jobs in the OT (other than return of the Jedi) and rouge one but unfortunately they were in things like rebels and mandolarian
I think the original legends version of the clones and the rebellion ( kamino) makes a lot more sense , using new templates and natural growth for a long term army training by clones with veterans in special units like the 501st , and an 8 year timeline plus leading up to civil war makes much better sense , and they are already going off new canon with tarkin.
i love clone wars
Little does Tarkin know that Stormtroopers can't shoot.
The Clone Army of Jango Fett, the Spaarti clones of Jango Fett and ordinary citizens recruited with the same uniform Armor that would be a largest Army in the Galaxy
Dave did say season 8 of clone wars was supposed to be about what all the characters did after order 66
You seem to be saying Tarkin chose to phase out the clones, but a large part of why he is in power is because he is cold and brilliant . He has enough political sense to see where things are heading and yet has a very military attitude of follow orders. Also palpatine likes to see his subordinates at odds. He makes that clear with the Tarkin / Vader relationship. My point being although Palpatine gave Tarkin a lot of power , He wouldn't have let Tarkin make such a big choice alone. I believe Palpatine already wanted to phase out the clones when he sent Tarkin to Kamino. Also I agree the money line is BS . If Palpatine wanted more clones He would have made it happen. Even if that meant occupying Kamino . What do you guys think on the possibility Palpatine wanted to get rid of clones in part to keep cloning technology to himself as part of his attempts to find lasting life as shown in the Rise of Skywalker movie?
Tarkin has always been a politician/yes man to palpatine. That’s why.
Please have closed captions come on cuz I have a very hard time understanding of what you been saying in so many videos you made nevertheless outstanding videos you made and thank you
Where did you find that picture of all the clone helmets at the end?
omg you just open my eyes you are maybe right the empire should have keep clones because they are indeed superior then humans and you are right the rebels would struggle to take clones down
The only thing I don’t like about this is that Tarkin used the failure of Clone Force 99 as an excuse to phase the clones out, despite the fact that Clone Force 99 were exceptions to the norm (their mutations having rendered their control chips inert), and regular clones would never have failed. That said, it DOES make sense that financial stuff would be part of the reason.
It was the clone program that was bankrupting the Republic
The thing is, the Empire controlled most of the Galaxy. They dont needed a highly trained army because they conquered nearly everything allready. My thought is that Stoormtroopers are more Policemen then Soldiers. The other thing is how many Clones do you want to create in order to place them everywhere in the Galaxy??? It would have needed decades to place them all over the Galaxy.
its so weird being german and hearing the word "Spiel" in the english language
would hte rebellion have a chance agianst clones?
Death Star was so large, perhaps it had cloning 🔬 🧫🧬 facilities. Was hugh for sum reason 🤔. And we know it already had area for science for military applications. And on board training facilities. I'm not talking about Jango strain. The Empire would without a doubt have their own ideal for things new.
I think we are all over thinking this, the clones had a flaw it was applied against the Jedi/ could be against palpa funds could be freed up for Death Star owning your supply chain ect i think its mainly the clones have fulfilled there purpose and are no longer needed in new batches
Whoever Tarkin is, he is not a lawyer. The Empire is a successor to the Republic & so all contracts signed by the Republic (& essentially the same person in Palpatine) would still be in force in any successor Empire.
He should be moff tarkin by this point during revenge of the Sith right after corusant battle, the fighting did last for almost four years the separatists holdout campaign and reconquest of the mid and other rim , plus punitive action. The war was still raging in many places
literally they just left tarkin at the citadel
If only.
They Wanna Save Up For The Death Star Haha Thats Why...
Well unfortunately the Kamino uprising will never happen as Tarkin said nope and destroyed them before they even have a chance.
how is the new admiral named after the hospital in the Show "Emergency"?
Who Tarkin?
These are some good ressons for cutting the cloning facility but honestly there are even more reasons. An army made up of your citizens will make it less likely for rebellions to occur as they dont want to fight their own people. Alos the government became the biggest employer overnight and being able to employ billions if not trillions of people into the Empires army is a big moral boost for the people. There was that one trooper that (yes he got killed by Crosshair) had a point. He had a job, food, clothing, and a roof over his head. More than the repunlic did for them. That speaks volumes about how pissed off people were with the republic as he certainly wasnt alone in his feelings. So many reasons for getting rid of the clone troopers that on one hand destroyed the Empire eely on but at the same time wsnt necessarily the only thing that killed the Empire.
Everybody hates Tarkin
But he hated Jedi and clones during the clone wars, didn’t he?
personally I prefer they kept it to clones, it makes the Storm troopers seem human if they use conscripts and I know in the EU there are plenty of conscripts
*I Wonder Who Is That Captain/Commander Shock Trooper?*
I believe that’s Commander Thire previously a Lieutenant
I hope Thire will find out that Tarkin really hate that Clones.
@@nightgoji3592 As much as I want to agree with you that it's Thire, I also think it might be a different high ranking Shock Trooper because Palpatine ordered Thire to look for Yoda's body in Revenge of the Sith. It obviously can't be Fox for numerous reasons, Thorn is dead, so that only leaves Commander Stone, a Shock Trooper commander that in a episode in Season 1 of the Clone Wars.
The empire was about control not conquest and so rather than having an offensive force who are completely alien to many people since they are no different from glorified cows with rifles than actual people and so it makes it harder for people to sympathize with clones such as the case with crosshairs or at the space ports