This script has, since this game was played, been updated (You might see me discussing possible updates in chat at one point)! There is no longer a Bounty Hunter or a Saint, but instead a Village Idiot and an Ogre. I think this will provide more cover for the heretic, damsel, choirboy, farmer, etc., as well as (at least with VI) provide much-needed info and cover for minions (or Legion!) without a bluff. I'd be curious on feedback about the proposed changes!
Question, why does this script have Fearmonger? It feels like there's not a lot of info that points at people for FM to hook onto, and more than that, Fearmonger also confirms non-Legion unless they claim Alchemist, and having that be the only way out feels bad for Evil. It just seems like FM doesn't add much while taking away from the ability to bluff. the natural choice to me would have been something more manipulatey like Widow, Summoner, Evil Twin, Pit-Hag etc. but I'd love to know your reasoning!
@@nyctophonik It's a very fair question, and one that me and a friend have been picking at. In simplest terms, it is because this script is based around what we know about Midnight in the House of the Damned, part of which is that there are "many characters that can win or lose singlehandedly", and... honestly I just don't like any of the other minions better. I'd be happy to list out my reasonings for why not for any or all of them if you want, but it just in some ways is the one that fits the theme the best and I dislike the least. There are some characters (King/Choirboy, Huntsman/Damsel, PG, Magician, Goblin, Legion, and especially Heretic) that just feel to me intrinsic to my idea of the script, and I have to work around them and the themes of the script. I'd honestly be happy to get rid of Fearmonger, but I don't have anything better to put in its place. That being said... yeah, I've been considering ET. I wrote this script back when I really disliked ET, and I still don't *like* it, but it fits about as well as Fearmonger here; the problem is that if two people claim twins, there starts to be correct plays, such as getting them to hard claim what they are to people independently, then have those people confer (if you don't just have one twin claim to the whole group while the other is away then vis versa) , which makes it rather hard for Legion to bluff because chances are low they end up on the same bluff.
First, I want to say I love this script and its idea behind it. I am genuinely expecting MotHotD to be very similar because your script just encapsulates the premise so well. My one suggestion would be to perhaps throw in a Politician? I find that it synergizes really well with both Heretic and Magician, which are fellow good characters that might be "playing for evil" and that evils should be wary of (because you can't really trust a Politician). I know that you have an Ogre doing the same work, but I feel like you have enough claimspace with VI that you don't need the Ogre, and adding another untrustworthy outsider that might switch allegiances at will (unlike the Ogre, who only switches allegiance once and then it's set) might improve the overall "shiftiness" of the script.
@@Shadowknight1224 Thanks! I worked very hard on it. As for Politician... No. Trust me, I considered it, and it actually was on the script at one point (2.2 IIRC), but even beyond my own well-expressed hatred for the character, while it fits really well on paper, it does not fit well in practice for two reasons: 1) it really does not play well with Legion and 2) it is extremely hard to tell a politician from a heretic; the only ability on this script that can is King (and *maybe* Fisherman), and Kings have a tendency to die before getting info, so most of the time it's impossible for town to tell a politician bluffing heretic from an actual heretic.
@@Shadowqueer That's a very good point! I was thinking that creating more room for the heretic to hide was a feature and not a bug but I can see how as you pointed out it can make the game unfun as it becomes near impossible to solve for either side (so they don't even know if they're correctly pursuing their win condition or not). Thank you for the explanation!
Watching the offers of bluffs, this was my exact thought. That would be genuinely hilarious. The potential for the last legion maybe knowing exactly which good characters are in play just because they get so many bluffs would be brilliant.
What a mad setup. I generally don’t love Legion, but it’s super fun when there’s a Poppygrower. Interesting combo with Heretic, too, since even if the Legion figures out there’s a Heretic, they can’t immediately kill the Demon and win. Lil Monsta + Heretic would be fun too.
This setup makes me wonder, how would you run Demon Info for Legion and Magician in an in-person game? Have all Legions and the Magician raise their hands, then have the Legions wake one by one to see whose hands are raised? Or go one by one pointing out each relevant player to each Legion in turn like you would in a non-Legion game, to avoid tipping the Magician off about being sober?
I believe in a legion game, if you do not wish to have all legion wake together, it's been suggested to wake them up one by one and point at the ones who are *not* Legion, which makes the process faster and allows for the hiding of a Magician just fine
When Emma said she wanted to find two GOOD players to listen to I thought she was being incredibly rude amount the rest of the players... and it took me a second to realise that she clearly meant alignment not skill level.
This was a really enjoyable game to watch, but not leaving the heretic for the King to see was extremely rough and basically ended the excellent game Good was playing. Ri spent the whole game doing a hell of a job infiltrating Legion but since they had no social credit with the other goods and no info pointing to their existence, their role might as well have read “legion, but you make your whole team lose and also your vote counts” - they did the best they could. Other players were even scrambling to bluff a heretic at the end not knowing if one was in as a last ditch, knowing nobody would buy it. Either way, the journey was fun! excellent job by the players and ST.
So this was a tough call in game-the issue is this was a very hard set up for legion, and the heretic was the balancing factor to make it winnable for them. If I’d let the king know about the heretic, especially with the magician getting killed day 1, there would always have been a living good player who knew they had to vote on themselves in final 3, and no way for legion to coordinate to fight that. The only way I could have shown Jen heretic is if lau and Samantha were alive in final 3 and I could have killed Jen and ri in the knight so Samantha and lau would have had to figure out whether they trusted players who died in the night. Ultimately heretics need to find a way to build social trust with good players in a legion game-they can’t rely on mechanical support . Which is hard! This is a hard script and a hard set up!
I know Emma had already decided Rez was dying but it was really funny to me how she went "Goodnight! Fine!" to Rez and then immediately put the death marker there lmao
*Emma:* "I really want to listen in on two good players chatting [on day 1]." *The good player chat she joins:* Poppy Grower and Magician. *Me:* "Ah yes. A very soild good player chat." 😂 Incredible game. I also tried making a Midnight-themed set but mine was a bit...wacky. I called my script "Late Night With Choirboy O'Brien". It included most of these characters as well as a couple game-breaking characters that are homebrew (Omen is created by my buddy Uncleeurope.) *Omen (Minion):* Things you’re “mad” about might become true. *Mad Scientist (Townsfolk):* On your first day, visit the Storyteller to tell them what your ability is. Your ability might cause something bad to happen. There were a couple other things that broke the game, but yeah...it was very social and very swingy and a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to the real expansions but it's fun to create some homebrew nonsense or throw confirmed characters together (or both) to try to match a vibe.
is that really how that interaction works with king?? that just effectively makes the king drunk in a legion game. like I get legion registers as a minion or demon, but they don't register as a DIFFERENT minion or demon, so the character the king knows should still be legion if they're learning the token.
If you're one of the very few good players in a Legion game, it is INFINTELY more useful to learn who one of your few, fellow goodies is, than learn that most of the town are Legion. - Ben
It has an almost exactly 50/50 win rate, as tracked via the app. It's just that you're watching the game from the perspective of the Storyteller, whose job it is to back evil plays. You haven't seen the games where the Storyteller backs the good team, because they end on day 2 with a total stomp. - Ben
That setup is diabolical.
Thank you!
I saw the thumbnail in my notifications and audibly asked "what even is this Grim?". Amazing first impression.
Congratulations to Bort on his first win in a Legion game!
I liked the way Ri played Heretic as basically a Politician.
This script has, since this game was played, been updated (You might see me discussing possible updates in chat at one point)! There is no longer a Bounty Hunter or a Saint, but instead a Village Idiot and an Ogre. I think this will provide more cover for the heretic, damsel, choirboy, farmer, etc., as well as (at least with VI) provide much-needed info and cover for minions (or Legion!) without a bluff.
I'd be curious on feedback about the proposed changes!
Question, why does this script have Fearmonger? It feels like there's not a lot of info that points at people for FM to hook onto, and more than that, Fearmonger also confirms non-Legion unless they claim Alchemist, and having that be the only way out feels bad for Evil. It just seems like FM doesn't add much while taking away from the ability to bluff.
the natural choice to me would have been something more manipulatey like Widow, Summoner, Evil Twin, Pit-Hag etc. but I'd love to know your reasoning!
@@nyctophonik It's a very fair question, and one that me and a friend have been picking at. In simplest terms, it is because this script is based around what we know about Midnight in the House of the Damned, part of which is that there are "many characters that can win or lose singlehandedly", and... honestly I just don't like any of the other minions better. I'd be happy to list out my reasonings for why not for any or all of them if you want, but it just in some ways is the one that fits the theme the best and I dislike the least. There are some characters (King/Choirboy, Huntsman/Damsel, PG, Magician, Goblin, Legion, and especially Heretic) that just feel to me intrinsic to my idea of the script, and I have to work around them and the themes of the script. I'd honestly be happy to get rid of Fearmonger, but I don't have anything better to put in its place.
That being said... yeah, I've been considering ET. I wrote this script back when I really disliked ET, and I still don't *like* it, but it fits about as well as Fearmonger here; the problem is that if two people claim twins, there starts to be correct plays, such as getting them to hard claim what they are to people independently, then have those people confer (if you don't just have one twin claim to the whole group while the other is away then vis versa) , which makes it rather hard for Legion to bluff because chances are low they end up on the same bluff.
First, I want to say I love this script and its idea behind it. I am genuinely expecting MotHotD to be very similar because your script just encapsulates the premise so well.
My one suggestion would be to perhaps throw in a Politician? I find that it synergizes really well with both Heretic and Magician, which are fellow good characters that might be "playing for evil" and that evils should be wary of (because you can't really trust a Politician). I know that you have an Ogre doing the same work, but I feel like you have enough claimspace with VI that you don't need the Ogre, and adding another untrustworthy outsider that might switch allegiances at will (unlike the Ogre, who only switches allegiance once and then it's set) might improve the overall "shiftiness" of the script.
@@Shadowknight1224 Thanks! I worked very hard on it.
As for Politician... No. Trust me, I considered it, and it actually was on the script at one point (2.2 IIRC), but even beyond my own well-expressed hatred for the character, while it fits really well on paper, it does not fit well in practice for two reasons: 1) it really does not play well with Legion and 2) it is extremely hard to tell a politician from a heretic; the only ability on this script that can is King (and *maybe* Fisherman), and Kings have a tendency to die before getting info, so most of the time it's impossible for town to tell a politician bluffing heretic from an actual heretic.
@@Shadowqueer That's a very good point! I was thinking that creating more room for the heretic to hide was a feature and not a bug but I can see how as you pointed out it can make the game unfun as it becomes near impossible to solve for either side (so they don't even know if they're correctly pursuing their win condition or not). Thank you for the explanation!
This is my absolute favourite Legion setup of all time. Probably the funniest possible set of tokens for the good team.
Wishing Emma had asked Milk "Do you want some bluffs?" And if he says yes, responding "Too bad!" And leaving the chat
I would have given any of the “no bluffs” Legion “Damsel, Lunatic, Huntsman” as their bluffs. 😂
Someone please, for a legion game do 1 bluff or double it and give it the next legion.
That would be so cool for a social (deduction) experiment! 🔬
Brilliant
Watching the offers of bluffs, this was my exact thought. That would be genuinely hilarious. The potential for the last legion maybe knowing exactly which good characters are in play just because they get so many bluffs would be brilliant.
I love how some players have their default bluffs and can't be bothered sticking to their lists.
I looooooove when Reznora’s hair is super black light responsive.
this is the funniest thing i've seen today
ok that final day was so tense. I love it!
This setup was just pure evil and devious...and I loved it.
Wow Ri almost pulled it off. I really thought legion would take it off of Milk on the final day
Love Emma's sense of humour when storytelling
Mal's necklace is SO pretty! And Rez's hair glowing!
Thank you!
What a mad setup. I generally don’t love Legion, but it’s super fun when there’s a Poppygrower. Interesting combo with Heretic, too, since even if the Legion figures out there’s a Heretic, they can’t immediately kill the Demon and win. Lil Monsta + Heretic would be fun too.
Ri played SUCH a good game, it's a shame it didn't work in the end
boy howdy, time for some clocktower
Ushanka and a mustache?? Let's go, Bort!
Great game, well played all around but especially Milk and Samantha.
This setup makes me wonder, how would you run Demon Info for Legion and Magician in an in-person game? Have all Legions and the Magician raise their hands, then have the Legions wake one by one to see whose hands are raised? Or go one by one pointing out each relevant player to each Legion in turn like you would in a non-Legion game, to avoid tipping the Magician off about being sober?
I believe in a legion game, if you do not wish to have all legion wake together, it's been suggested to wake them up one by one and point at the ones who are *not* Legion, which makes the process faster and allows for the hiding of a Magician just fine
In person I would make a custom “these players are not legion” on my phone when running this script and wake legion one by one
When Emma said she wanted to find two GOOD players to listen to I thought she was being incredibly rude amount the rest of the players... and it took me a second to realise that she clearly meant alignment not skill level.
lol I’m not sure if I should be glad you realized what I meant or hurt you’d think I’d say something so mean
This was a really enjoyable game to watch, but not leaving the heretic for the King to see was extremely rough and basically ended the excellent game Good was playing. Ri spent the whole game doing a hell of a job infiltrating Legion but since they had no social credit with the other goods and no info pointing to their existence, their role might as well have read “legion, but you make your whole team lose and also your vote counts” - they did the best they could. Other players were even scrambling to bluff a heretic at the end not knowing if one was in as a last ditch, knowing nobody would buy it.
Either way, the journey was fun! excellent job by the players and ST.
So this was a tough call in game-the issue is this was a very hard set up for legion, and the heretic was the balancing factor to make it winnable for them. If I’d let the king know about the heretic, especially with the magician getting killed day 1, there would always have been a living good player who knew they had to vote on themselves in final 3, and no way for legion to coordinate to fight that. The only way I could have shown Jen heretic is if lau and Samantha were alive in final 3 and I could have killed Jen and ri in the knight so Samantha and lau would have had to figure out whether they trusted players who died in the night.
Ultimately heretics need to find a way to build social trust with good players in a legion game-they can’t rely on mechanical support . Which is hard! This is a hard script and a hard set up!
Yea it was on me to get in with the good players...I just couldn't stop laughing...
I know Emma had already decided Rez was dying but it was really funny to me how she went "Goodnight! Fine!" to Rez and then immediately put the death marker there lmao
*Emma:* "I really want to listen in on two good players chatting [on day 1]."
*The good player chat she joins:* Poppy Grower and Magician.
*Me:* "Ah yes. A very soild good player chat." 😂
Incredible game. I also tried making a Midnight-themed set but mine was a bit...wacky. I called my script "Late Night With Choirboy O'Brien". It included most of these characters as well as a couple game-breaking characters that are homebrew (Omen is created by my buddy Uncleeurope.)
*Omen (Minion):* Things you’re “mad” about might become true.
*Mad Scientist (Townsfolk):* On your first day, visit the Storyteller to tell them what your ability is. Your ability might cause something bad to happen.
There were a couple other things that broke the game, but yeah...it was very social and very swingy and a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to the real expansions but it's fun to create some homebrew nonsense or throw confirmed characters together (or both) to try to match a vibe.
I've never heard the "Legion might not get bluffs" before. That's interesting.
I know I should be paying attention to, like, the game and all, but instead I'm trying to figure out what NHL team's jersey Ri is wearing.
WAIT I figured it out, it's a 2022-23 Edmonton Oilers reverse retro jersey!
Correct! Gold star.
I don't usually like legion or heretic games, but this one was amazing.
I’m glad! One of my goals was to show how these characters can make each other more interesting!
And thank you for the kind words!
@@emmacone-roddy762 Absolutely nailed it! :D
is that really how that interaction works with king?? that just effectively makes the king drunk in a legion game. like I get legion registers as a minion or demon, but they don't register as a DIFFERENT minion or demon, so the character the king knows should still be legion if they're learning the token.
Yes that’s how that works. Think of it as legion’s ability to deceive townsfolk-the king learned the last good player and the in play demon anyway
Throughout a lot of the game I thought the Evil team found out about the heretic- And for spoilerific reasons I will not clarify how this goes.
Sorry WHY wouldn't you tell the king legion though??! It was just treating the king like they are poisoned or drunk.....
If you're one of the very few good players in a Legion game, it is INFINTELY more useful to learn who one of your few, fellow goodies is, than learn that most of the town are Legion. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower i was talking about the first one where the king was told "goblin" instead of legion.
Legion registers as a Minion as part of their ability. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower God damn this game just doesn't want good to win
It has an almost exactly 50/50 win rate, as tracked via the app. It's just that you're watching the game from the perspective of the Storyteller, whose job it is to back evil plays. You haven't seen the games where the Storyteller backs the good team, because they end on day 2 with a total stomp. - Ben
GG
Please stop with the heretic scripts
Nah, keep at it! Play what sounds fun
No. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower based ben
FixerFour has nominated heretic scripts for execution.
Unfortunately, scripts are not eligible for execution. The nomination does not succeed.