The Crackdown on Student Protesters
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- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2024
- Columbia University has become the epicenter of a growing showdown between student protesters, college administrators and Congress over the war in Gaza and the limits of free speech.
Nicholas Fandos, who covers New York politics and government for The Times, walks us through the intense week at the university. And Isabella Ramírez, the editor in chief of Columbia’s undergraduate newspaper, explains what it has all looked like to a student on campus.
Guest:
• Nicholas Fandos (www.nytimes.com/by/nicholas-f...) , who covers New York politics and government for The New York Times
• Isabella Ramírez, editor in chief of the Columbia Daily Spectator
Background reading:
• Inside the week that shook Columbia University (www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/ny...) .
• The protests at the university continued (www.nytimes.com/2024/04/19/ny...) after more than 100 arrests.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily (nytimes.com/thedaily?smid=pc-t...) . Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
1st. Why do congress members get to set policy at Columbia or any other university? They work for us. Not the other way around. 2nd. Why is it so difficult for the University president to say "we encourage free sppeech. We do not condone violent or threatening speech. We will continue to do so and investigate and charge those involved in the latter."
Yeah well, that is simple: just set that easy and clear precedent where speech moves from provocative to threatening and then trust the fuzz to peaceably enforce it and we’re off Mrs President! University saved. Now if you think congress really works for us, go ahead, tellem.
I think the problem is what is defined as "violent speech"
@@feloniousshlong agreed (great handle btw;) you wanna take a swipe at remedying that ambiguity or you sayin it cant be said?
Encampments on private property are not a form of speech
@@Pussaychop ironically, my comments get deleted, or I can't see them after I post. YT is another arm of the fight against free speech.
This was a particularly strong episode. Thank you for this discussion.
The beautiful part about this is that these are occurring on some of the best journalism schools in the country. Everything is being documented, filmed, reported on by the next generation of journalists. Seems like an alley oop for some of these students to use this experience as a class project as well as speak the truth to the outside world
It's giving anti-Vietnam War protesters
Except they weren't Anti-Semites. See the difference?
If we had people cheering the Red Chinese forces during Vietnam they should have been jailed. The northern forces were such monsters in that war that today Vietnam is one of the most pro American allies, due to the difference in how Americans treat their hosts vs the native invaders.
VERY UNHAPPY ABOUT THE CRACKDOWNS! I AM STEAMED!
"Peaceably to Assemble" is part of the 1st Amendment that gets ignored WAY too often.
"Peaceably" being the keyword.
Not on private property
Exactly that amendment refers to demonstrations in public spaces
Negative my establishment friends. That you imagine you could divine the ‘key word’ or caveat the ownership of spaces wherein protest is legitimate sounds like a lotta coptalk. So just admit: i dont yikes them kiids disagwee with me!
@@sherryward2018
How did you come up with that one?
The Constitution applies everywhere within the borders of the United States.
Need to crack down on AIPAC instead of these students
so true
need to crack down on the 200 billion in aid that US sends to 70 year duration 'refugees'
Can you tell me what rules or laws has AIPAC exactly broken? For what they should exactly be "crack down" upon? Because United States is open and free democracy it protects lobbying rights, including on behalf of other countries that freely operate in United States. To name just few countries who have lobbying organizations just like AIPAC: Armenia, India, Iran, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Qayar, UAE, Mexico, Turkey, Pakistan, Hungary, Poland. Even after the start of Ukraine war, Russia still has lobbying group freely operating in United States (USRBC). China has at least 3 I am aware of. So what exactly makes AIPAC uniquely bad or evil that we should unconstitutionally "crack down" on them. Could you come up with any reason why what you wrote shouldn't just be interpreted as a thinly veiled antisemitic dogwhistle?
@@Lius525 painting 'refugees' as the perpetual victims keeps feeding 100's of millions per year into the 'refugee' business. US has funded UNWRA 'refugees' to the tune of 1 billion dollars in the last 3 years. It is time to let those terrorists fund themselves. Every crooked claw gets their take, Doha houses the leadership.
@@Lius525 they are genocidal criminals
If there had been students protesting in favor of the IDF, Congress would have taken zero notice.
A well-made episode, though I must say that it didn't examine how President Shafik played mental gymnastics to convince the NYPD that these anti-war protests in the lawn are "a clear and present danger". Ugh. She bent backwards to appease Stefanik and her ilk of witch hunters, only for them to call for her resignation.
I am comforted by the fact that Pres Shafik is hated by both the extremeists from Congess and the radicals on Butler Field. That means she's doing something right
But of course, there were going to do that no matter what, what republican extremist would miss the opportunity to call for the resignation of those "woke administrators from the that liberal university of that lefty city". The presidents of these universities are in a no win situation, they are caught between two extremist factions that will not be placated by any actions or words, they will always demand more extreme measures to be taken to favor their side.
" Follows me to smoke " the phenomenon by it self singing that rap by sheth😂
How much is tuition at Columbia? If my kid screwed that up he'd be working at McDonald's for a year just to remind him/her how privileged it is to attend an Ivy League school.
Likely free for ‘refugees’
@@krl970 I don't think they're refugees. I think they've been so successful in academics and are so economically secure that they haven't thought through the consequences of getting involved with the legal system. They're the trash talking kids that have never been in a real fight.
@@needmorecowbell6895 the qatari funded student groups for palestinian causes hired their own attorneys and the attorneys gave bad legal advice to the students. The laws are changing in real time and the racist behavior of some of the protestors is all caught on social media. There are heavy consequences for schools that do not protect their students and shut down this madness. US funds palestinian refugees for 70 years now, maybe we need to divest of this idiocy.
@@needmorecowbell6895lol
Very thought provoking. Indeed, a cautionary tale in crisis management. University administrators 'acting tough' on student protests is not always smart.
University admins are in a now win situations, you cannot appease extremist factions; no matter what actions you take, zealots will never be satisfied.
I wonder if when you are reporting Gaza casualties, you make sure to say ״according to Hamas״ like you about the number of casualties on October 7 “according to Israeli government”
There is likely a way to satiate your wonder: read further? We can agree that this isnt like other wars wherein neither side has a vested interest in inflating/minimizing casualty figures. Sharpish observation.
hamas' numbers are cooked
Nah. Keep sending 200 billion a year for the ‘refugees’
Muh students.
Comprehensive
Columbia's current President Shafik didn't take just a "different tack," as you said @31:25. She was clearly mealy-mouthed & acquiescing to the blood-sport House republicans, like infamous mean-girl Elise Stefanik.
good reporting
no fan of the students who use Hamas flags, but calling the cops and suspend the protesters from Columbia was so dumb and escalatory, instead of just talking to them. students on the other hand now actually see that standing for your principles can come at a cost, they got used to the idea of doing protests and taking selfies as a way to build the resume for further political career, while the truth is that the past activists did this at a great peril and even danger to their lives, not only the undermining of professional chances. make a choice, do the right thing or just close your eyes and climb the corporate ladder.
What is there to talk though? I really don't get this insanity that seems to have taken over the western space. The people that can influence Netanyahu are already doing what they can to get him to back off. Don't sell bombs to Israel? Ok, sure, they'll use artillery while building their own factories for bombs. And since there's less of a chance to hit the target with artillery, they'll have to use even more of it, causing even more destruction and deaths. That fixed the problem!...
These protests are an outlet for impotent rage, that's all too often targeted at jews that also have zero power to effect change. And all this does is to radicalize people both to the pro-arab cause and also against them, which leads to nothing good in the long term. It's incredibly dumb and counter productive.
@@gogudelagaze1585 by this logic sanctioning Iran and Russia are also completely pointless and counterproductive because they'll just build their own.
Why don't we "just talk to" Putin, instead of sending weapons to Ukraine? That'll definitely work, right?
@@ssun190 Israel has both the industrial capacity and the knowhow to build what are essentially metal casings filled with explosives and an impact fuse. The same cannot be said about Iran, Russia, or China (effectively sanctioned from high end chipmaking) building the entire chain required to create the electronics they need.
My point isn't to "Oh, just let them do whatever", but to protest in effective ways that target the root cause - namely what allows Netanyahu and the even worse extremists and settlers to operate as they do. And that is the political scene in both Israel and Gaza/WB. But nobody wants to get involved with any of that because that takes actual effort.
Shafiq met with the students, they walked out
It is all very one-sided. Who is caring and showing support for the Palestinians? I don't see any high level support for them. There's only cries about antisemitism; this is so obvious.
They don’t care about the Jews either, that’s fake pro-Israel propaganda. Zionists want us to forget about the 15,000+ children who Israel is massacring.
Umm, plenty of the people are siding with the victims dawg - ‘high level support’ might be aksing alot for poor people mixing it up with one of our wealthier allies - only thing i see as obvious: its complicated.
You don't see any high level support for Palestine?
I live in Denmark and I can't walk two feet away without seeing a free Palestine something or other. Denmark. A country which really doesn't engage much in foreign affairs.
@@joshuarubin3684 By high level support, I mean influential top leaders of academia, government, and industry. They aren't the ones you'll see every few feet when walking about the city. I think you're referring to the common citizen.
@@joshuarubin3684Denmark is irrelevant in international politics
Sure wish I could afford to protest all day!
When classes get shut down it makes it pretty easy
@@Zou523 Then that's an INCREDIBLE waste of an 85K tuition.
@@tfustudios many of the 'refugee' students are on full scholarship. Many of the protestors were paid professionals, not students. This was part of the reason there was a shutdown.
IMO, the students at these schools need to be aware of a few things as well as be made aware of how much the world has shrunken in the last few decades. #1 is that there are many outsiders that are drawn into play because they, the outsiders, wish also to protest. #2 is that the students most likely do not know these outsiders well if at all. The students cannot simply assume these other people are other students or that the others are there with peaceful intent and goodwill. #3 is that there are much more serious concerns in the country and the world at this time than whatever the student's protests can possibly bring about. The students and whoever is helping drive them in their protests are causing a bigger and bigger distraction every day they carry on. And every day more and more people around the country and the world are becoming aware. The local colleges or parks or streets are no longer safe playgrounds. Our borders are wide open for persons of all types to freely enter and who knows how many would love to take advantage of distractions like these where American citizens can easily drop their guard and make themselves and others vulnerable. I just want to say, Wake up! It's not all about you guys and your little protests. Are you students even aware at what level of readiness Homeland Security and our military stand? Are you students aware of all the ways this country is currently stressed? Are you aware of all the wars and disagreements the US is currently involved in? And are you ready to deal with the war or wars coming fast upon us? Will you be ready to handle that? Read about it, study up. Don't get caught playing or sleeping at school when you need to be ready to act like an adult.
Ok Boomer 😂
#3 hits really had when you look at the reaction to these “little protests” by the state police. Why spend millions on suppressing these “little protests” when there are MUCH better ways to spend those resources other than scaring off people who are holding peaceful sit in? The only escalation we are seeing is from law enforcement which only draws in larger, unruly crowds. There are much bigger issues we can tackle like stopping Israel from dragging the US into conflict with Iran and ending the several proxy wars we are currently engaged in
@@TheResidance So are the young so carefree as to think "what will be will be"? I'm really sorry for how you feel toward the older generations. But I didn't personally do anything to you or anyone else. It's too bad you don't think you can learn anything from those who have been around a lot longer than you. I will say one thing and then I'll shut up: Get a Faraday bag for your electronics devices. :) And yeah well, I'm proud of my Boomer status - I hope you'll be proud of your age too if you reach mine. 🙏
@@lynnmaycroft531 So are the old so carefree as to think "what will be will be"? I'm really sorry for how you feel toward the younger generations. But I didn't personally do anything to you or anyone else. It's too bad you don't think you can learn anything from those who may have fresher perspectives based on more up to date knowledge. I will say one thing and then I'll shut up: Get a Faraday bag for your electronics devices. :) And yeah well, I'm proud of my millenial status - I hope you were as proud of your own youth and didn't take shit from your elders back in your day.
@@TheResidance Very good. Funny too. Have a good life. Seriously.
Free Americans from AIPAC.
Honest question here, what comes after the ceasefire if hamas is able to use it to rearm and regroup and stage more 10/7 attacks as they have vowed to do?
Thank you NYTimes for your unwavering support for Israel.
Disgusting, isn’t it?
Great handle mang. Uncertain ive ever seen such blowback over bias from both ends - theres an outside chance we may have to look at multiple sources just this once. You know, on the off chance we might benefit from a divergent viewpoint from our own.
@@Pussaychop Whatever!
@@LantangKaturay
Yes it is disgusting. A huge damage to their credibility.
The us funds 200+ billion per year for the permanent refugees’ divest, stop funding this foreign welfare state.
Free Palestine ❤️🤍💚🖤