In my humble opinion suffering and bliss is a part of this world, and where there is suffering, there is bliss. And only in heaven will suffering be eradicated and bliss be left. Ofcousre what kind of a test would this life be if there was no evil or suffering of any kind.
11:20 Kasb literally means earn rather than acquisition which could include acquiring what isn’t essentially justifiable to be acquired on your side. If you see it this way then it implies that one has gone through processes that ‘earned’ him the outcome which is the wrongdoing.
Ofcourse one would think if God has predestined every thing, then hell, or heaven for me has already been decided, and the sahaba asked a similar question to the prophet, and the prophet simply said do what Allah has commanded you to do, and don't involve yourselves in these intricacies. Ofcousre every human can do what he wants, thus perceiving to have free will, and I belive this preception is enough to conclude that at least in our view we have free will.
This is fascinating information, philosophical, striking at the core of atheist arguments, which in themselves borders on mystic, or rather, mythical interpretations and tenets of the natural order. The incomplete and often contradictory exploratory presuppositions made by astrophysicists, mathematicians, neuroscientists, to explain the origins of life and the exceptional human condition and/or conscious, cannot fully explain with concrete confidence or truth the origin of our current state of being. I would like to study these concepts, in depth, as an exercise in understanding the nature of free will, personal intention, and possibly the Qadr, with a healthy fear of not delving too deeply into anything that may make me question Allah, subhaanahu wata’ala’s, purpose. Perhaps, to accept that we were made to worship Him, Al-Mutakabbir, and just study, as a form of spiritual entertainment, the mental gymnastics made by early Islamic theologians and mystics, is best.
My understanding is this. There is a soul which has consciousness and free will inanimates from it. There is the body and actions originates from it. Every one is essentially a soul+body Hence everyone is will+action Will is free and that is the power to choose and guide our actions. I.e. We are free to choose our actions. However actions may or may not necessarily happen even if we want to as they are bound by God's will. This justifies the God's judgment. if a person decides to commit crime but could not do so that's because God didn't allow his action to happen. However he willed, planned and tried the badge deserves punishment. When we say everything happens with God's will that means every action only happens if God allows When we say free will that's our soul - consciousness and power to choose that might or might not cause an action in real world
It seems to me that this is not a case of _tertium non datur_ . It is true that God is not constrained by an axiology outside of himself; nor is it true that God arbitrarily determines what is good and evil. God is the Good itself; and as such he is the source and final end of all desiring.
I have read and heard that animals do get justice in Islam. That happens on the day of judgement, where the ram that hit another ram on earth, gets to now do the same to it. After the animals are dealt with they turn back into dust, so there is no hell or paradise for them. And Allah knows best.
Zero Pulses, sorry to say the "Orthodoxy outlook" is very humancentric and contradicts the Qur'an... “There is not an animal that lives on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but they form communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they all shall be gathered to their Lord in the end”(Qur'an 6:38). I have read something similar minus the part of them (rams) being turned back into dust. Allah's justice and mercy demands that every living thing will eventually be brought back and given life once again in the hereafter and live in eternal bliss alongside their human counterparts.
He said. Everything Allah does for the universe and all beings is good. Like a surgeon. We may not know what n how n it hurts but its good for you and the universe. So we r not smart enough to fully encapsulate Allah's wisdom.its all confusing for us.but on day of judgement he will justify n make u understand n he promised u will be satisfied.so maybe the human mind in this version is finite n limited but the next world maybe will be abit better or smtg. Or maybe just maybe. We r supposed to follow the guidance that is in the gut feeling. N not the vision.maybe trust and belief in our parents spouses n god is with some evidences but not in its entirety.but thats what belief n trust is. It requires a slight hiddenness.maybe.
That's hardly a satisfying solution today though, as it presupposes dualism, which is essentially ruled out by neuroscience and the study of how human beings function.
To abd Allah you have to suffer to learn what pleasure is - how would you learn what pleasure is if you dont suffer? To Gnomefro furthermore science presupposes monism or philosophical materialism - it still has the hard problem of consciousness. It has nothing to say about aesthetics or morality. Dualism is rejected by science simply because its out of its reach. Nothing of this indicates that it doesn't exist. I'm also not aware of any neuroscience that rules out anything about consciousness.
The problem of qualia has never been reconciled by neuroscience, and many, such as the British philosopher Colin Mcginn argue it is impossible. So I think you'll find that your claim that neuroscience has solved everything, is simply untrue
@@MoosaIslamic Let's leave neuroscience out of this. Physics knows how all particles interact with each other. Feynman diagrams can be drawn for every interaction. If we are saying there is something out brains are interacting with but we can some how see it... we should be able to find out how our brains are interacting with it. Furthermore, the claim that even a portion of our decision making is done outside our brains falls apart the moment we look at Charles Whitman who had a brain tumor that made him do terrible things.
@@unleashed93 a) You're assuming observable interaction and b) you're essentially arguing that if we mapped every molecular interaction in the brain, we'd have a picture of what it would be like to 'be me', and that simply isn't the case.
No. Humans have responsibility for their actions under the doctrine of kasb, which is the position of the vast majority of learned Muslims. He just doesn't explain it. His point was that when an earthquake kills thousands, the earthquake is not morally evil.
@@TempvsMortis But this sort of reasoning ushers in a new problem. If thousands of people dying to that earthquake is not morally evil, then it's not the lives lost that matter it is the act of trying to kill someone that does. So someone who has the intent to murder but did nothing is worse than someone who kills but didn't intend to. As in the first has committed more crime than the second just by considering murder too seriously.
@@unleashed93 How come you conclude that there's a direct logical relation between the act of nature that kills human being which I believe it's morally neutral, and that deontologic argument about the primacy of one's motive or maxim to evaluate one's ethical actions?? If we assume that there's a morally neutral acts that happens behind human volition, it does not exclusively follow that only humankind pain and suffering are the valid attributes to evaluate whether an act is morally right or wrong, nor also we must conclude that one's motive/maxim is the sole attribute to judge such act. Maybe we're jumping to false dichotomy over here... Hmmm, I'm quite interested in this, but I'm not confident with my knowledge and understanding regarding this issue, so please enlighten me if you still have the will and/or time to discuss this issue. Best regards, and indeed only God knows best.
Technically its not. If tornado cleans the air. N the grounds have to churn for the core to rotate n keep supplying iron nickel to burn and humans have to die to make space for new ones.businesses have to go bankrupt for new ones to enter. Previous champions have to die for someone other than Roger Federer to win.grand parents have to die for grandkids to have a job. The job market cant supply 6 generations nor can the earth resources. So ultimately i think the cycle. Is fair.like a public bathroom stall usage. Come in-use-get out.somebodyelse is waiting to come into earth.
You have to distinguish between the _ontological decree_ of God and the _deontological decree_ of God in order to understand this better. In other words, whatever happens does so because God brings it about, but not everything that happens is in accord with his preference.
You will be well-advised to read Quran, at least once. Then you will realize it is foolish to believe that Islam in anyway stops you from committing sins. As per Islam you can steal, loot, rape and tell all kinds of lies, you will go to heaven by doing a simple thing, accept Islam, and still worse, Mohammed as his prophet who was through and through an immoral sinner.
Arun , your lies on Quran and Beloved Muhammad will come upon you and your sons and daughters. They will be the ones who shall lie like you , and will be raped and be rapists and murderers . Seek forgiveness before it becomes a reality . One thing you have said right is read the whole quran . If you did : you would know that killing one innocent soul is like killing entire humanity . Abd saving one human soul is saving entire humanity . Now where did you misUNDERSTAN QURAN
Islam tells you to not commit sins CLEARLY. You should know that stealing, looting (except for the bounty of war), raping and telling lies are clearly and plainly forbidden in the Quran (since you sound like you’ve read it) and Allah SWT will reward you on the day of judgement according to your deeds. Those who do these deeds will have a painful punishment except for the ones that Allah decides to forgive. You can accept Islam and ask for fogiveness all you want but if you are not truthful in seeking forgiveness or seek to deceive Allah in any way, He will never forgive you and you will enter hellfire for a painful torment. As for the Prophet Muhammad SAW, know that he was the best of creation out of everything that Allah SWT has created so be afraid of ascribing your lies to him SAW.
Islam tells you to not commit sins CLEARLY. You should know that stealing, looting (except for the bounty of war), raping and telling lies are clearly and plainly forbidden in the Quran (since you sound like you’ve read it) and Allah SWT will reward you on the day of judgement according to your deeds. Those who do these deeds will have a painful punishment except for the ones that Allah decides to forgive. You can accept Islam and ask for fogiveness all you want but if you are not truthful in seeking forgiveness or seek to deceive Allah in any way, He will never forgive you and you will enter hellfire for a painful torment. As for the Prophet Muhammad SAW, know that he was the best of creation out of everything that Allah SWT has created so be afraid of ascribing your lies to him SAW.
Stealing and looting is forbidden: [As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. (Quran 5:38) Rape is forbidden: do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty. (Quran 25:68) Lying is forbidden: the curse of Allah is upon the liars (Quran 3:61) The prophet (saw) was not a liar: "Abdullah ibn Salaam reported: When the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, came to Medina, the people rushed toward him and it was said, “The Messenger of Allah has come!” I came along with the people to see him and when I looked at the face of the Prophet, I realized that his face was not the face of a liar. The first thing the Prophet said was this, “O people, spread peace, feed the hungry, and pray at night when people are sleeping. You will enter Paradise in peace.”
our free will is within what Allah has granted us sufficient, we can water our plants but we cannot make it rain.
In my humble opinion suffering and bliss is a part of this world, and where there is suffering, there is bliss. And only in heaven will suffering be eradicated and bliss be left. Ofcousre what kind of a test would this life be if there was no evil or suffering of any kind.
11:20 Kasb literally means earn rather than acquisition which could include acquiring what isn’t essentially justifiable to be acquired on your side. If you see it this way then it implies that one has gone through processes that ‘earned’ him the outcome which is the wrongdoing.
I borke my brain. Therebral.
Underrated comment!
Hahaha
Ofcourse one would think if God has predestined every thing, then hell, or heaven for me has already been decided, and the sahaba asked a similar question to the prophet, and the prophet simply said do what Allah has commanded you to do, and don't involve yourselves in these intricacies. Ofcousre every human can do what he wants, thus perceiving to have free will, and I belive this preception is enough to conclude that at least in our view we have free will.
This is fascinating information, philosophical, striking at the core of atheist arguments, which in themselves borders on mystic, or rather, mythical interpretations and tenets of the natural order. The incomplete and often contradictory exploratory presuppositions made by astrophysicists, mathematicians, neuroscientists, to explain the origins of life and the exceptional human condition and/or conscious, cannot fully explain with concrete confidence or truth the origin of our current state of being. I would like to study these concepts, in depth, as an exercise in understanding the nature of free will, personal intention, and possibly the Qadr, with a healthy fear of not delving too deeply into anything that may make me question Allah, subhaanahu wata’ala’s, purpose. Perhaps, to accept that we were made to worship Him, Al-Mutakabbir, and just study, as a form of spiritual entertainment, the mental gymnastics made by early Islamic theologians and mystics, is best.
The mystical solution to the problem: is the implication that we are in some mysterious sense divine?
My understanding is this.
There is a soul which has consciousness and free will inanimates from it.
There is the body and actions originates from it.
Every one is essentially a soul+body
Hence everyone is will+action
Will is free and that is the power to choose and guide our actions. I.e. We are free to choose our actions.
However actions may or may not necessarily happen even if we want to as they are bound by God's will.
This justifies the God's judgment. if a person decides to commit crime but could not do so that's because God didn't allow his action to happen. However he willed, planned and tried the badge deserves punishment.
When we say everything happens with God's will that means every action only happens if God allows
When we say free will that's our soul - consciousness and power to choose that might or might not cause an action in real world
It seems to me that this is not a case of _tertium non datur_ . It is true that God is not constrained by an axiology outside of himself; nor is it true that God arbitrarily determines what is good and evil. God is the Good itself; and as such he is the source and final end of all desiring.
This was soo confusing 😕😫
So hundreds of millions of years of animal suffering serves no ultimate purpose?
animals have no free will and are clearly not in the same plain as humans.
I have read and heard that animals do get justice in Islam. That happens on the day of judgement, where the ram that hit another ram on earth, gets to now do the same to it. After the animals are dealt with they turn back into dust, so there is no hell or paradise for them. And Allah knows best.
Zero Pulses, sorry to say the "Orthodoxy outlook" is very humancentric and contradicts the Qur'an... “There is not an animal that lives on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but they form communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they all shall be gathered to their Lord in the end”(Qur'an 6:38). I have read something similar minus the part of them (rams) being turned back into dust. Allah's justice and mercy demands that every living thing will eventually be brought back and given life once again in the hereafter and live in eternal bliss alongside their human counterparts.
Allaah knows best
He said. Everything Allah does for the universe and all beings is good. Like a surgeon. We may not know what n how n it hurts but its good for you and the universe.
So we r not smart enough to fully encapsulate Allah's wisdom.its all confusing for us.but on day of judgement he will justify n make u understand n he promised u will be satisfied.so maybe the human mind in this version is finite n limited but the next world maybe will be abit better or smtg. Or maybe just maybe. We r supposed to follow the guidance that is in the gut feeling. N not the vision.maybe trust and belief in our parents spouses n god is with some evidences but not in its entirety.but thats what belief n trust is. It requires a slight hiddenness.maybe.
That's hardly a satisfying solution today though, as it presupposes dualism, which is essentially ruled out by neuroscience and the study of how human beings function.
and doesnt begin to answer the dilemma of suffering in nature
To abd Allah
you have to suffer to learn what pleasure is - how would you learn what pleasure is if you dont suffer?
To Gnomefro
furthermore science presupposes monism or philosophical materialism - it still has the hard problem of consciousness. It has nothing to say about aesthetics or morality. Dualism is rejected by science simply because its out of its reach. Nothing of this indicates that it doesn't exist.
I'm also not aware of any neuroscience that rules out anything about consciousness.
The problem of qualia has never been reconciled by neuroscience, and many, such as the British philosopher Colin Mcginn argue it is impossible. So I think you'll find that your claim that neuroscience has solved everything, is simply untrue
@@MoosaIslamic Let's leave neuroscience out of this. Physics knows how all particles interact with each other. Feynman diagrams can be drawn for every interaction. If we are saying there is something out brains are interacting with but we can some how see it... we should be able to find out how our brains are interacting with it. Furthermore, the claim that even a portion of our decision making is done outside our brains falls apart the moment we look at Charles Whitman who had a brain tumor that made him do terrible things.
@@unleashed93 a) You're assuming observable interaction and b) you're essentially arguing that if we mapped every molecular interaction in the brain, we'd have a picture of what it would be like to 'be me', and that simply isn't the case.
Did he just give justification to every human to do WHATEVER they want and say "This is what God made happen and God can't do evil"?!
No. Humans have responsibility for their actions under the doctrine of kasb, which is the position of the vast majority of learned Muslims. He just doesn't explain it. His point was that when an earthquake kills thousands, the earthquake is not morally evil.
@@TempvsMortis But this sort of reasoning ushers in a new problem. If thousands of people dying to that earthquake is not morally evil, then it's not the lives lost that matter it is the act of trying to kill someone that does. So someone who has the intent to murder but did nothing is worse than someone who kills but didn't intend to. As in the first has committed more crime than the second just by considering murder too seriously.
@@unleashed93
How come you conclude that there's a direct logical relation between the act of nature that kills human being which I believe it's morally neutral, and that deontologic argument about the primacy of one's motive or maxim to evaluate one's ethical actions??
If we assume that there's a morally neutral acts that happens behind human volition, it does not exclusively follow that only humankind pain and suffering are the valid attributes to evaluate whether an act is morally right or wrong, nor also we must conclude that one's motive/maxim is the sole attribute to judge such act.
Maybe we're jumping to false dichotomy over here...
Hmmm, I'm quite interested in this, but I'm not confident with my knowledge and understanding regarding this issue,
so please enlighten me if you still have the will and/or time to discuss this issue.
Best regards, and indeed only God knows best.
Technically its not. If tornado cleans the air. N the grounds have to churn for the core to rotate n keep supplying iron nickel to burn and humans have to die to make space for new ones.businesses have to go bankrupt for new ones to enter. Previous champions have to die for someone other than Roger Federer to win.grand parents have to die for grandkids to have a job. The job market cant supply 6 generations nor can the earth resources. So ultimately i think the cycle. Is fair.like a public bathroom stall usage. Come in-use-get out.somebodyelse is waiting to come into earth.
You have to distinguish between the _ontological decree_ of God and the _deontological decree_ of God in order to understand this better. In other words, whatever happens does so because God brings it about, but not everything that happens is in accord with his preference.
You will be well-advised to read Quran, at least once. Then you will realize it is foolish to believe that Islam in anyway stops you from committing sins. As per Islam you can steal, loot, rape and tell all kinds of lies, you will go to heaven by doing a simple thing, accept Islam, and still worse, Mohammed as his prophet who was through and through an immoral sinner.
Arun , your lies on Quran and Beloved Muhammad will come upon you and your sons and daughters. They will be the ones who shall lie like you , and will be raped and be rapists and murderers . Seek forgiveness before it becomes a reality .
One thing you have said right is read the whole quran .
If you did : you would know that killing one innocent soul is like killing entire humanity . Abd saving one human soul is saving entire humanity . Now where did you misUNDERSTAN QURAN
Islam tells you to not commit sins CLEARLY. You should know that stealing, looting (except for the bounty of war), raping and telling lies are clearly and plainly forbidden in the Quran (since you sound like you’ve read it) and Allah SWT will reward you on the day of judgement according to your deeds. Those who do these deeds will have a painful punishment except for the ones that Allah decides to forgive. You can accept Islam and ask for fogiveness all you want but if you are not truthful in seeking forgiveness or seek to deceive Allah in any way, He will never forgive you and you will enter hellfire for a painful torment.
As for the Prophet Muhammad SAW, know that he was the best of creation out of everything that Allah SWT has created so be afraid of ascribing your lies to him SAW.
Islam tells you to not commit sins CLEARLY. You should know that stealing, looting (except for the bounty of war), raping and telling lies are clearly and plainly forbidden in the Quran (since you sound like you’ve read it) and Allah SWT will reward you on the day of judgement according to your deeds. Those who do these deeds will have a painful punishment except for the ones that Allah decides to forgive. You can accept Islam and ask for fogiveness all you want but if you are not truthful in seeking forgiveness or seek to deceive Allah in any way, He will never forgive you and you will enter hellfire for a painful torment.
As for the Prophet Muhammad SAW, know that he was the best of creation out of everything that Allah SWT has created so be afraid of ascribing your lies to him SAW.
Lol wow you are ignorant lol.
Stealing and looting is forbidden: [As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. (Quran 5:38)
Rape is forbidden: do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty. (Quran 25:68)
Lying is forbidden: the curse of Allah is upon the liars (Quran 3:61)
The prophet (saw) was not a liar: "Abdullah ibn Salaam reported: When the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, came to Medina, the people rushed toward him and it was said, “The Messenger of Allah has come!” I came along with the people to see him and when I looked at the face of the Prophet, I realized that his face was not the face of a liar. The first thing the Prophet said was this, “O people, spread peace, feed the hungry, and pray at night when people are sleeping. You will enter Paradise in peace.”