Guiness was the beer that taught be that beer could actually be enjoyable. In the US college students almost exclusively buy the cheapest American Lagers. I could not stomach them and being young and dumb assumed beers were all terrible. Then a friend gave me a Guinness and it was good! Guinness may not be my favorite beer anymore but I still have a special place in my heart for it and other stouts for opening my mind to better beers. 🍻
As an American, before the craft beer movement happened; Guinness was the first one to teach me 'there's more than just pilsners out there.' My love of stouts is definitely influenced by Guinness.
I feel fortunate to have come of age in Fort Collins Colorado. We had Odell Brewing and New Belgium Brewing companies. I had access to really good microbrews so I never had to navigate the cheap American Lager college days.
Pure porter in a pub was poured from 2 kegs. 1 was the black, thick heart of the pint the 2nd the cream. When serving, you'd pour the white 1st and let it settle, top up with the black and skim the top with a knife and top up with a little more of the black. It's sad it's gone from Ireland since the early 70's. A taste we will never get to experience.
The blog. Shut up about Barclay Perkins, has some information about old Irish beers. I think you could come close to recreating it again with that information.
Lunchtime here on the East Coast of the U.S. and you're making me crack a Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter on a Wednesday. Lol. Very cool episode, fellas.
My wife and I went to Ireland and had the opportunity to do the Guinness Brewery tour. Not only do I enjoy Guinness from time to time, knowing the history of Guinness makes it taste even better knowing you are drinking a part of Irish history.
About the “it’s all wild yeast before the 19th century,” I think it’s worth pointing that even though there were no off-the-shelf yeasts back then, the fact that brewers would reuse the yeast from the old batch into the new batch (backslopping) made it so that yeasts were essentially in the process of being domesticated. Recent DNA analysis found that our current strains can be dated to 16th century ancestors or so. So unlike lambic that harvest new yeast every time (and even then, there are plenty of localized yeasts to each brewery), old breweries were pitching yeast, but they mostly had the house strain available.
Excellent vid, glad you mentioned the Guinness porte/stout marketing flip. In truth it's like the difference between a pale ale and an IPA, it is really just down to whoever came up with the recipe and put the lable on it.
Brown malt has a very peculiar, strong flavour. Some of that funky weirdness and complexity in the Gibraltar is probably the brown malt. Where I work we made a brown ale for a contractor using quite a lot of brown malt - it was not an easy drink.
That's doubly true if there is some smoked malt thrown in there as well. I once made a "smoked brown" and overdid it a bit and was consequently barely able to finish a bottle (which is otherwise never a problem, not even with very high abv beers, lol) and the batch (despite being a small, test one) lasted well over a year.
Found you by accident.... I'm fortunate to have a local pub that brews mostly English Ales, Belgians, German beers. Recent offers are a Dark winter Ale (spiced a bit), an Ould Brown Ale, Porter, Stout, and the latest offers include a Belgian Saison with rye and sage. Wish you were here to try them. Tell ya what, if you two lads show up here in Plymouth MA I'll buy you a round.
For any UK Mainland beer lovers I'd reccomend Harvey's Porter (Harveys Brewery is based in Lewes, East Sussex , England). Their Porter recipe is the same as their original recipe from 1859 (that's what the brewery claim anyways). Their Porter is one of my favorite beers and I couldn't recommend it more!
Fantastic video ! Now for the hot weather vs dark beer, there is also the style Tropical Stout which is definitely a paradox for me. Cheers from France 🍻
@@TheCraftBeerChannel About as odd as an IPA Stout or even more odd Imperial Stout IPA that is just a Stout IPA. The Imperial Stout did not need to be made as hoppy as an IPA and kind of a beer only the people who try to stay on the leading edge of Beers drink. The Imperial Stout was made in Russia after a Ban on imported beer in the 1800's then made as strong as could be due to the higher tax on wine and even higher tax on hard alcohol at the time. However it is Finland now that is making most of this beer, first started in the few parts once owned by Russia started this tradition until the revolution in 1919 when that part joined Russia so they were able to keep making the beer when Russia became communist and had few breweries of anything except a cheap Vodka or some kind of Red Beer they made with a type of Russian Barley as a plain unfiltered wheat beer, different from Belgium Red Beer. This is if it is not niche breweries in the USA or more in Canada making the Imperial Stout.
Thank you. I love both of these styles but now I know why. I also love history. Beer and Scotch. Would love to get that Gibraltar Porter. Do they sell it in Canada?
Great video! Have always wondered what the difference is. Really enjoyed your format in explaining while drinking and chatting! Cheers from Vancouver Canada =)
South Floridian here: has anyone noticed a difference in taste when drinking a Guinness Extra Stout over the last 10 years? I could've sworn they had a subtle metallic taste when drunk from the bottle back then, but 10 years later I revisited the stout and was surprised to find out that the metallic taste is gone: this helped me actually ENJOY the beer, with all its roasted coffee and chocolate taste.
I live in the states. There is peanut butter stout brewed by the Belching Beaver brewery that tastes amazing. Definite hint of peanut butter. What’s not to like eh?? Great video!
In my opinion, Guinness could be described as crisp as it it very light bodied. To me their traditional Stout is very thin, compared to Imperial and other styles. A couple friends of mine and I have a Facebook page devoted to Stouts and Porters.
brilliant video lads! super engaging and entertaining! first time the difference has ever been explained without me losing interest half way through XD
Historically, there was absolutely no difference. Stout was just the name given to stronger Porters. In London, Porter and Stout were regularly parti-gyled together so their recipes were identical. That continued right up until the 1940s. The stuff on 18th century styles you got totally wrong. The two main styles were Beer and Ale. Which came in three colours and could both either be sold mild or stale. Mild Ale in the 18th century wasn't weak. Lots would have been 7% ABV or more. The Kernel East India Porter is probably based on one of my recipes. I know their 1890 Export Stout was. Most English brewers didn't use brown malt after 1850. The exception was London, where Whitbread were still using brown malt in the 1970s. Dry Stout only really dates from the 1950s, when Guinness Extra Stout's attenuation was bumped up from 75% to 85%. Before that, it had been no drier than London Stout.
Hey are you Ron Pattison, if so apologies and thanks for the clarifications! We didn't mean to imply mild was weak, only that given the nature of the fermentations it would have been weaker than the the stale beer on offer. We do literally say in the video there was no difference between stout and porter other than strength and that the names diverged only as a marketing change (we should have said how much later this happened.)
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yes, that's me. Porter and Stout have a complex history. I'm always learning more. ( I got a look in the Guinness archives a couple of years ago. Only a little glimpse, but enough to be very instructive.) Martyn Cornell's upcoming book on Porter will doubtless teach me a whole lot more. Did you see his blogpost on Jamaican Porter? All totally new to me. I'm sure it will contain a lot more revelations.
I love the beer history videos you guys put up. Is always good to understand how we got to where we are in the Craft Beer World. Really hoping to see more in the future! Cheers!
One of the best beers I've ever had, Darwin Brewery's Flag Porter. Can't get it in the USA any more, but you guys should still be able to get it semi-locally.
Blimey you've done your research! But a voice that I could listen to for ages. Confused me a bit but love your vids and will carry on listening to you till I peg it! Carry on with the vids, love them.
Guys great video as always. Love your content. I have a question... Why is it that if you drink to much good quality beer "craft" if you will, your more likely to end up still feeling drunk in the morning than dying from a crushing headache and catastrophic dehydration like you would experience from commercial beers? Yet the ingredients in most beers craft or commercial generally say Malt Hops Barley Water etc theres never any mention of preservatives or stabilisers or added sugars.
Haha - we'd love to explore beer culture in some less Westernised countries and see the differences. The love of stout is definitely one of those things for Western Africa!
Great video. I have been struggling to explain to people the differences between a stout and porter. So many people I know assumed that a stout was just a higher abv porter. I just got done brewing a smores porter, probably not meeting any style guidelines but will hit my flavor guidelines. lol Cheer.
Two nice porters that got me into the style were Samuels Smith's Taddy Porter and St. Peters Old Style Porter. Those are common imports into the USA. I also like Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout. I rate that brewery world class.
I don’t know if it’s just me, but I never cared for the Guinness that I drank in the United States. But on a trip to Ireland I decided to try it again and I absolutely loved it! I drank it practically everyday while there on vacation. Oddly, once I returned to the US, I once again didn’t care for it as it didn’t taste the same. I can only assume their export recipe is different from the original recipe I drank in country. It’s a shame as I really miss the Irish Guinness I fell in love with while there…
There is serious quality control of Guinness in Ireland. This goes down to the cleaning of the pipes, storage, how it is poured etc. This cannot be replicated outside of Ireland.
@@IRISHATLANTIC Thank you for that explanation. I hope to go back to Ireland someday, go to a pub, and toast with a Guinness in hand… “Let the winds of fortune sail you, And may you sail a gentle sea. And let it always be the other fella who says, ‘Lads - this drink’s on me.’
Hmm. Not sure if this really correct. I don't see a lot of evidence of this from reading the bjcp style guidelines. Stouts and porters of various styles can both be sweet or dry and they can definately both be pretty roasty. Some stouts can also be pretty low on roast like modern fruited/pastry/vanilla stouts
Really? Just read them and porter says "Moderate to moderately low bready, biscuity, and toasty malt aroma with mild roastiness, and may have a chocolate quality" Then the stout: "A black beer with a pronounced roasted flavor, often similar to coffee. The balance can range from fairly even to quite bitter" Of course other styles of porter and stout taste different, but they are different styles! Just like NEIPA and WCIPA have little in common. Also worth saying that BJCP is not the bible on beer styles. It's heavily americanised and also designed for judging categories more than for drinkers.
I'd have been interested to hear what you think of Guinness Original. Guinness Draft I'll drink if I'm in a pub and am frightened of the other beers, Guinness Original I'll drink by choice (I used to seek out pubs that served bottled Guinness). My dad was from Cork - he'd talk about 'a bottle of stout' or 'a pint of draft'.
In my view, the difference between a stout and a porter is roasted barley in the grain bill for stout. Plus, porter would normally have crystal malt, which gives it a sweeter finish. A stout normally does not have crystal malt. The lack of crystal malt would produce a dry finish that you get in stout.
I brew my own Gibraltar Porter. What is interesting is that brown malt in the 19th century was wood smoked and the modern stuff isn't, so I use 50-50 rauschmalt/special B malt instead to try and introduce a smoky flavour which I think would have been in the original. I also use fuggles hops which is used in the recipe I found instead of goldings.
Man, not had a kernel beer in well over a year now. My absolute favourite brewery. They may not have brewed the best beers I've ever tasted but their standard is still impeccably high. The anti-branding, leanings towards bolder beer styles and whilst there's nothing wrong with expansion the fact that they seem to refuse to do so adds to the allure
I'd heard that part of the reason for Porters & Stouts being more common across seas in the colonies was also that it simply transported better, especially the stronger varieties with extra ABV, can image the old milds discussed would have ended up pretty stale by the time they made their journeys potentially, where as stout porters more consistent products that could have been more a taste of home.
My experience with Porters and Stouts, at least in America, is that Porters tend to be a bit darker and roastier - like Anchor Porter or Founders Porter which are my favorites. Stouts tend to be a bit creamier and sweeter, especially Guinness, which I find to be a very refreshing drink. I don't find Guinness to be roasty at all.
Bit baffled by this! Modern porters should have some roast, but really be about fruitiness and lighter shades of chocolate. Stout (as we explain in the video) comes from removing the malts that add that fruity character. Guinness is a great beer but not quite a classic stout as it's a "creamed" beer (poured with nitrogen) and sweeter than most stouts but it's still pretty roasty toasty...at least in the UK it is!
W B Mew, Langton & Co , Royal Brewery, Croker St ,Isle of Wight Brewed at least Three Porters , Porter, Export Porter and the Gibraltar Porter , which was a sporadically brewed beer; probably for export to Army & Navy Canteens . I've just completed a comprehensive study of the records of W B Mew Langton 1884-91 Cheers 🍻
Guinness is not especially thick, though new beer drinkers think so. It is actually rather clean tasting, goes down nice and easy. Some of the more robust porters or stouts I think would go well in a warm climate but in the end I suppose its all about the palate. Another great video!
Great minds think alike! Except we made a corker of a mistake on our porter/stout episode to do with Baltic Porters 😬😬😬 always learning in this craft beer world!!!
Dear Mr. javagoblin1585 your comment is very rude. These gentlemen have done a lot of good work in the beer scene and deserve respect. Sir. Jonny Garrett and Sir. Brad Evans, that´s the names you called them.
Stout is stout because it’s a description... (Think “I’m a little teapot short and stout” etc) Guinness literally was called Guinness extra stout Porter... as it was a fuller/bigger kind of porter then they dropped the Porter bit of the name
Stout IS a stout porter. That's it! Today however they have diverged into separate styles (I guess?). Originally, they were the same thing. Porter was the term coined first, the term stout followed with the advent of stronger darker porters. In modern recipes porter usually has a good amount of chocolate and sometimes crystal (carmel) malts while stout is brewed with roasted barley or very dark malts (like black malt). This is not always the case, just a generalization.
In 1623 Gervase Markham ( born in Nottingham, a soldier , playwright , author and all round bon viveur ) in ' The English Huswife ' 1625 , lists " Ordinary" and "Second " or "Small " drinke ( mild) using the Guil--fat ( gyle vat ) that everyone drank , a 3 gyled " Marche Beer " " ( spring ale ) with peas ( probably chick peas or grey peas - Parkinsons Paradisus Terrestris 1626 ) wheat and oats , a pale beer for the summer months, and a straight "Strong" ( an Old ale zero or lightly hopped ) , names which have remained with us today . William Cobbett a beer nut that danced around the pubs of East Anglia in an 1823 book devotes a whole 2 chapters to beer production and no mild or stale beer in that tome but confirms the measures and methods used by Markham for the 2X gyled beer . Small beer has stayed in our language used to describe someone incapable of a good fight . Taxing beer in the 17th C under James 1 ( 6 of Scotland ) introduced the X rating . A barrel branded 1X ( over 4 %) attracted tax . Scotland had the shilling rating which still remains . In England this to abuse with traders marking barrels XX , XXX etc to claim a stronger beer . IPA was originally brewed by Hodgsons at the 3 Mills site South of Bow Bridge on the old Roman London to Colchester road and used the quality grain coming from East Anglia , drawing their water from the highest part of the then navigable river . Later the Lea Stort Navigation would make barging down river to waiting ships , a breeze. The stretch of the River Lea to the Thames was a haven for the booze industry in particular London Gin that fuelled Victorian East Enders . Brewed to supply the 260 000 soldiers ( twice the size of the British Army of the day ) employed by the East India Company incorporated in 1600 and NOT the British Army. The EIC took rule of India in 1757 and by 1805 had full control of the high seas trade . The Royal Navy patrolled those routes. Anything of value from Booze to drugs went through the IEC into the ports of India , the colonies down under and Treaty Ports of China . The world and its aunty were supping British beer of all types including Strongs and variants thereof and doing British drugs . Originally a pale well hopped beer of low OG , effectively a well preserved small beer that was cheap , to quench the thirst of their hoards in the East without getting shitfaced . A price hike by the son of Daddy Hodgson and the IEC being short of readies ( yeah right !) , the job went out to tender . Up steps Allsops and clinches the deal with a darker farty brew typical of Burton water . Typically the British abroad dont give a shit what they drink so all is well. Hodgsons didn't just pack up there and then but continued the brewing until eventual demise and sold IPA locally. To cut a long story short after getting slapped by the Indians , the IEC was wound up by the Government in around 1870 . Allsops had partnered with another southern brewery on a cleaner river closer to sea than the Lea and local to the world's largest fishing fleet , The Short Blue at Barking...Ind Coope on the River Rom at Romford. Romford began brewing a well hopped small beer called IPA that was bottled for export and home consumption similar if not the same as Hodgsons . Ind Coope became HUGE and their IPA sold everywhere into the 20th C . Ind Coope produced another pale , well hopped cask conditioned beer called Romford Bitter ( sometime Bulldog ) that sold locally until sometme before closure in 1992 ( part of Allied Breweries by then) . Romford Bitter was a well hopped , lightly fruity balanced bitter of I believe 1038 OG , really refreshing in the stinking hot summer ot 1976 . A delightful all day quaffing beer .This sat side by side with a " Burton Ale " probably another legacy from their earlier wedding with Allsops .
not sure if anyone else is picking up on the audio, but it's jumping around a lot. probably due to Jonny moving his head. changing the distance from the mic. It might have been fixable in the edit through Compressors, Limiters, and Gates
A really good beer from the norwegian brewery Kinn is Svartekunst (Black Arts), and they call it a Foreign Extra Double Imperial Russian Export Stout Porter ;)
recommend both ...... dont see porter often but its very good ... // not keen on tinned bottle or keg is usually best .. appreciate guiness is diffrent drink but guiness varies around the world ... // from dublin guiness to nigerian guiness both good just different ..
As someone who prefers dark and bitter beers but hasnt taken the time to look up the distinctions, this question of the difference between a stout and a porter has often been one that has come up over a round of pints. So thank you for the explanation. I always though the difference partly had something to do with the texture as in stouts were 'creamier' like a guiness/murphys and porters were 'thinner' like ales but just dark. You didnt mention this distinction which makes me think that you can get stouts and porters with either texture - is this correct or does the texture mean something in the distinction between stouts and porters?
I think this comes out of Guinness's dominance of the market - we kind of assume all stouts have to be served on nitro so they are creamy, but very much not the case! THere are nitro porters, and indeed non-nitro stouts.
You guys need to make it to the US once the pandemic is done and make it to Tampa Bay, Florida. Once a year Cigar City Brewery releases a beer called Hunahpu. You can only pick it up for a week time frame in bottles in March. But they do carry older versions on tap that you can get tastes of or glasses of.
We've explored Tampa Bay at great length on the channel... although we didn't film at Cigar City when we went. We just drank. All the videos are here: ruclips.net/video/m9GAS2URdjg/видео.html
It's a given that all the barley is malted, otherwise the sugars & enzymes aren't available. The sprouted barley is toasted to halt the growing process by different amounts, which along with the sugar content determines what kind of malt it is, pale, crystal, dark, etc.
Greetings from Ireland. I don't know what the modern day difference is supposed to be but back in the day when the Guinness manufacturing process wouldn't have been as consistent as modern methods (Even differences in Barley moisture content made a big difference for example). Guinness used an X rating to grade the output (I've always assumed this is where Castlemaine XXXX naming came from, probably an industry grading for Beer?). Anyway, the XXX rating was the best quality and most expensive, porter was the lowest quality (single X) and drunk by the working class and they called it Porter. Even my Grandfather always referred to Guinness as porter. That's what I was told by a very dedicated Guinness drinker once upon a time (Chris Corr RIP), so our definition of Porter might be different.
How often do you guys drink? I'm just curious because I get drunk like every night on different styles of beer and watch your videos on the history of said types of beers. So in my mind, you are drinking with me, and also get drunk every night 😂
Ready for more beer history - but even BIGGER. Check out our video asking What Even is Imperial Stout: ruclips.net/video/5G8fs6tY0U0/видео.html
Guiness was the beer that taught be that beer could actually be enjoyable. In the US college students almost exclusively buy the cheapest American Lagers. I could not stomach them and being young and dumb assumed beers were all terrible. Then a friend gave me a Guinness and it was good!
Guinness may not be my favorite beer anymore but I still have a special place in my heart for it and other stouts for opening my mind to better beers. 🍻
I was a Guinness drinker myself til about 22. Never enjoyed those mass made lagers and Guinness had so much going on. Still a great stout.
As an American, before the craft beer movement happened; Guinness was the first one to teach me 'there's more than just pilsners out there.' My love of stouts is definitely influenced by Guinness.
I feel fortunate to have come of age in Fort Collins Colorado. We had Odell Brewing and New Belgium Brewing companies. I had access to really good microbrews so I never had to navigate the cheap American Lager college days.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel One of the very few Macro brews which have taste and quaffable
Guinness is what got me into stouts and stouts are pretty much all I drink now.
Pure porter in a pub was poured from 2 kegs. 1 was the black, thick heart of the pint the 2nd the cream. When serving, you'd pour the white 1st and let it settle, top up with the black and skim the top with a knife and top up with a little more of the black. It's sad it's gone from Ireland since the early 70's. A taste we will never get to experience.
The blog. Shut up about Barclay Perkins, has some information about old Irish beers. I think you could come close to recreating it again with that information.
The serving process is shown is this BBC clip from 1973, which poetically laments “The Last Days of Porter”:
ruclips.net/video/ZKDwwVR5fd4/видео.html
@@DebatingWombatthanks for this
Lunchtime here on the East Coast of the U.S. and you're making me crack a Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter on a Wednesday. Lol. Very cool episode, fellas.
My wife and I went to Ireland and had the opportunity to do the Guinness Brewery tour. Not only do I enjoy Guinness from time to time, knowing the history of Guinness makes it taste even better knowing you are drinking a part of Irish history.
Beamish is better in my opinion
@@RazPerignonBeamish is absolute dirt and I wouldn't give it to my worst enemy.
@@1992ravefan lol really? I heard out the can is terrible
@@RazPerignon It's terrible altogether whether it comes in a pint or a can because the taste is foul.
@@1992ravefan I don’t remember it tasting foul at all, what would you consider a good stout besides Guinness?
About the “it’s all wild yeast before the 19th century,” I think it’s worth pointing that even though there were no off-the-shelf yeasts back then, the fact that brewers would reuse the yeast from the old batch into the new batch (backslopping) made it so that yeasts were essentially in the process of being domesticated. Recent DNA analysis found that our current strains can be dated to 16th century ancestors or so. So unlike lambic that harvest new yeast every time (and even then, there are plenty of localized yeasts to each brewery), old breweries were pitching yeast, but they mostly had the house strain available.
Absolutely! This is a video I have been trying to conceptualize and explain to people but I cant find a fun way to do it!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Go for it! Maybe you could dress up as yeast shepherds...
Some UK breweries still repitch - Harvey's have been doing since the 1950s. And have picked all sorts of other yeast in the process.
Indeed.Hundreds do in a way - though most dont go past a few generations for replacing the strain with a fresh one from a lab.
All this time, I thought that the yellow thing on the lovely SMEG heater was the handle. Mind... blown.
Excellent vid, glad you mentioned the Guinness porte/stout marketing flip. In truth it's like the difference between a pale ale and an IPA, it is really just down to whoever came up with the recipe and put the lable on it.
And even then some Pale Ale the one from Serria Nevada is an IPA in terms of the hops level but is not really a true IPA due to the strength.
I love these sofa videos. You guys have entertaining dynamic. Always such feelgood atmosphere.
Thanks Juha! Glad you like them!
Thank you kindly juha 🍻
Good information. I was under the impression that a stout is a lagered beer, while a porter is an ale. I learn something new every day.
Lovely discussion on Stout and Porter - Always enjoyable to watch you fellows, always learn much. Cheers!
Actually knew this stuff already, but you still get a thumbs-up for presenting it so succinctly. Good job, gents.
Brown malt has a very peculiar, strong flavour. Some of that funky weirdness and complexity in the Gibraltar is probably the brown malt. Where I work we made a brown ale for a contractor using quite a lot of brown malt - it was not an easy drink.
That's doubly true if there is some smoked malt thrown in there as well. I once made a "smoked brown" and overdid it a bit and was consequently barely able to finish a bottle (which is otherwise never a problem, not even with very high abv beers, lol) and the batch (despite being a small, test one) lasted well over a year.
I’ve got David Heath’s London Porter recipe on tap right now. Highly recommended.
Someone had to do this. And I'm glad it was you.
Found you by accident....
I'm fortunate to have a local pub that brews mostly English Ales, Belgians, German beers.
Recent offers are a Dark winter Ale (spiced a bit), an Ould Brown Ale, Porter, Stout, and the latest offers include a Belgian Saison with rye and sage. Wish you were here to try them.
Tell ya what, if you two lads show up here in Plymouth MA I'll buy you a round.
Great video, but hearing some sound issues. Anybody else?
Yip same. thought its on my side.
Thought it were my earphones😂
YEah, sound problems hear too!
yea
Fella on the left is always turning his head away from his mic.
These two blokes are living the dream. Great vid.
These are my favorite style of show from you guys. Hope to see more in the future 👍🏻👏🏻
I think, deep down inside, I've always known that porters are crisp, but you're the first to actually put it into words
For any UK Mainland beer lovers I'd reccomend Harvey's Porter (Harveys Brewery is based in Lewes, East Sussex , England). Their Porter recipe is the same as their original recipe from 1859 (that's what the brewery claim anyways). Their Porter is one of my favorite beers and I couldn't recommend it more!
100% the smell out back and the shop near the bridge great combination just wonderful.
I have one for you- Titanic’s Plum Porter. Not traditional but it’s delicious
Fantastic video ! Now for the hot weather vs dark beer, there is also the style Tropical Stout which is definitely a paradox for me. Cheers from France 🍻
Oh god yeah I forgot that brewers are trying to push that through!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel About as odd as an IPA Stout or even more odd Imperial Stout IPA that is just a Stout IPA. The Imperial Stout did not need to be made as hoppy as an IPA and kind of a beer only the people who try to stay on the leading edge of Beers drink. The Imperial Stout was made in Russia after a Ban on imported beer in the 1800's then made as strong as could be due to the higher tax on wine and even higher tax on hard alcohol at the time. However it is Finland now that is making most of this beer, first started in the few parts once owned by Russia started this tradition until the revolution in 1919 when that part joined Russia so they were able to keep making the beer when Russia became communist and had few breweries of anything except a cheap Vodka or some kind of Red Beer they made with a type of Russian Barley as a plain unfiltered wheat beer, different from Belgium Red Beer. This is if it is not niche breweries in the USA or more in Canada making the Imperial Stout.
Thank you. I love both of these styles but now I know why. I also love history. Beer and Scotch. Would love to get that Gibraltar Porter. Do they sell it in Canada?
Although I quit drinking, I still feel very excited to see your video
Great video! Have always wondered what the difference is. Really enjoyed your format in explaining while drinking and chatting! Cheers from Vancouver Canada =)
Thanks for making this video. I’ve always wondered what the difference was and this explains it in great detail. Cheers guys!
Love the beer history tied into the evolution of modern versions of different styles
Porter-loving American here. Just came across the channel. Love the content. Cheers!
South Floridian here: has anyone noticed a difference in taste when drinking a Guinness Extra Stout over the last 10 years? I could've sworn they had a subtle metallic taste when drunk from the bottle back then, but 10 years later I revisited the stout and was surprised to find out that the metallic taste is gone: this helped me actually ENJOY the beer, with all its roasted coffee and chocolate taste.
I live in the states. There is peanut butter stout brewed by the Belching Beaver brewery that tastes amazing. Definite hint of peanut butter. What’s not to like eh?? Great video!
I’m gonna say this, and I’m an American Southerner.
Peanut doesn’t go with EVERYTHING.
In my opinion, Guinness could be described as crisp as it it very light bodied. To me their traditional Stout is very thin, compared to Imperial and other styles.
A couple friends of mine and I have a Facebook page devoted to Stouts and Porters.
What's it called? I'm always in pursuit of a good Stout. Its my favorite type of beer.
Look up guinness varities
@@oscarosullivan4513 absolutely! I was speaking of their basic formula sold in every bar.
They do have some great colors!
@@bobbyingals Draught is nice out of a can but clearly better out of the tap
@@oscarosullivan4513 yessir.
brilliant video lads! super engaging and entertaining! first time the difference has ever been explained without me losing interest half way through XD
Cheers Peter! Glad we kept it fresh!
Thank you for the education in the beer history, and the subtle differences between porter and stout!😊
Historically, there was absolutely no difference. Stout was just the name given to stronger Porters. In London, Porter and Stout were regularly parti-gyled together so their recipes were identical. That continued right up until the 1940s.
The stuff on 18th century styles you got totally wrong. The two main styles were Beer and Ale. Which came in three colours and could both either be sold mild or stale. Mild Ale in the 18th century wasn't weak. Lots would have been 7% ABV or more.
The Kernel East India Porter is probably based on one of my recipes. I know their 1890 Export Stout was.
Most English brewers didn't use brown malt after 1850. The exception was London, where Whitbread were still using brown malt in the 1970s.
Dry Stout only really dates from the 1950s, when Guinness Extra Stout's attenuation was bumped up from 75% to 85%. Before that, it had been no drier than London Stout.
Hey are you Ron Pattison, if so apologies and thanks for the clarifications! We didn't mean to imply mild was weak, only that given the nature of the fermentations it would have been weaker than the the stale beer on offer.
We do literally say in the video there was no difference between stout and porter other than strength and that the names diverged only as a marketing change (we should have said how much later this happened.)
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yes, that's me.
Porter and Stout have a complex history. I'm always learning more. ( I got a look in the Guinness archives a couple of years ago. Only a little glimpse, but enough to be very instructive.) Martyn Cornell's upcoming book on Porter will doubtless teach me a whole lot more. Did you see his blogpost on Jamaican Porter? All totally new to me. I'm sure it will contain a lot more revelations.
We spoke a few weeks back about porter and he didnt even mention it! I will hunt it down.
I thought that dry stout was older and was called dry because of the absence of milk
This might be the first time I've ever clicked on a RUclips video with 0 views. What am I meant to do...? FIIIIIIRST!!!11!!!
I love the beer history videos you guys put up. Is always good to understand how we got to where we are in the Craft Beer World. Really hoping to see more in the future! Cheers!
Lots more to come!
One of the best beers I've ever had, Darwin Brewery's Flag Porter. Can't get it in the USA any more, but you guys should still be able to get it semi-locally.
Blimey you've done your research! But a voice that I could listen to for ages. Confused me a bit but love your vids and will carry on listening to you till I peg it! Carry on with the vids, love them.
Guys great video as always. Love your content. I have a question... Why is it that if you drink to much good quality beer "craft" if you will, your more likely to end up still feeling drunk in the morning than dying from a crushing headache and catastrophic dehydration like you would experience from commercial beers? Yet the ingredients in most beers craft or commercial generally say Malt Hops Barley Water etc theres never any mention of preservatives or stabilisers or added sugars.
Forget the Belgian Bus Tour, CBC African Tour is what we want to see!
Haha - we'd love to explore beer culture in some less Westernised countries and see the differences. The love of stout is definitely one of those things for Western Africa!
Stouts tastes too medicinal for me
Great video. I have been struggling to explain to people the differences between a stout and porter. So many people I know assumed that a stout was just a higher abv porter. I just got done brewing a smores porter, probably not meeting any style guidelines but will hit my flavor guidelines. lol Cheer.
Two nice porters that got me into the style were Samuels Smith's Taddy Porter and St. Peters Old Style Porter. Those are common imports into the USA. I also like Samuel Smith's Imperial Stout. I rate that brewery world class.
The closest now is Imperial Double Russian Stout brewed occasionally by Harvey's. It's 9% and is slightly soured.
Porter and Stout. My favorites!
I don’t know if it’s just me, but I never cared for the Guinness that I drank in the United States. But on a trip to Ireland I decided to try it again and I absolutely loved it! I drank it practically everyday while there on vacation. Oddly, once I returned to the US, I once again didn’t care for it as it didn’t taste the same. I can only assume their export recipe is different from the original recipe I drank in country. It’s a shame as I really miss the Irish Guinness I fell in love with while there…
There is serious quality control of Guinness in Ireland. This goes down to the cleaning of the pipes, storage, how it is poured etc. This cannot be replicated outside of Ireland.
@@IRISHATLANTIC Thank you for that explanation. I hope to go back to Ireland someday, go to a pub, and toast with a Guinness in hand…
“Let the winds of fortune sail you, And may you sail a gentle sea. And let it always be the other fella who says, ‘Lads - this drink’s on me.’
Huh. I guess that's why BJCP style 16C - tropical stout is a thing. You guys taught me something cool today. Thanks!
Hmm. Not sure if this really correct. I don't see a lot of evidence of this from reading the bjcp style guidelines. Stouts and porters of various styles can both be sweet or dry and they can definately both be pretty roasty. Some stouts can also be pretty low on roast like modern fruited/pastry/vanilla stouts
Really? Just read them and porter says "Moderate to moderately low bready, biscuity, and toasty malt aroma with mild roastiness, and may have a chocolate quality"
Then the stout: "A black beer with a pronounced roasted flavor, often similar to coffee. The balance can range from fairly even to quite bitter"
Of course other styles of porter and stout taste different, but they are different styles! Just like NEIPA and WCIPA have little in common.
Also worth saying that BJCP is not the bible on beer styles. It's heavily americanised and also designed for judging categories more than for drinkers.
I'd have been interested to hear what you think of Guinness Original. Guinness Draft I'll drink if I'm in a pub and am frightened of the other beers, Guinness Original I'll drink by choice (I used to seek out pubs that served bottled Guinness). My dad was from Cork - he'd talk about 'a bottle of stout' or 'a pint of draft'.
In my view, the difference between a stout and a porter is roasted barley in the grain bill for stout.
Plus, porter would normally have crystal malt, which gives it a sweeter finish. A stout normally does not have crystal malt. The lack of crystal malt would produce a dry finish that you get in stout.
I'm Japanese. I met this video because I search "スタウト ポーター" on RUclips. Its mean stout and porter in Japanese. Very interesting video!!
Hey thanks for stopping by!
Fantastic content as usual chaps, loved it and learnt a lot!
love your enthusiasm, good job guys!
Coopers bottle-aged EXTRA Stout from South Australia cannot be excelled.
It is the pinnacle of the art.
Each bottle has a "Best After" date!
Well done. The porter stout conversation is always fun.
If you don't mind, I'd like to share this in my beer appreciation class on Stouts and Porters. Cheers!
I brew my own Gibraltar Porter. What is interesting is that brown malt in the 19th century was wood smoked and the modern stuff isn't, so I use 50-50 rauschmalt/special B malt instead to try and introduce a smoky flavour which I think would have been in the original. I also use fuggles hops which is used in the recipe I found instead of goldings.
Not sure why anyone would restrict dark beers to a season or climate. It's frustrating to get a good dark beer or imperial only in winter.
Man, not had a kernel beer in well over a year now. My absolute favourite brewery. They may not have brewed the best beers I've ever tasted but their standard is still impeccably high.
The anti-branding, leanings towards bolder beer styles and whilst there's nothing wrong with expansion the fact that they seem to refuse to do so adds to the allure
Commenting 2 years later and the Porter resurgence is in full swing!
Porters and stouts are mostly all I ever drink when it comes to beer.
Really appreciated the Wayne's World reference as much as the exploration of 2 great styles of beer!!👍👍👍👍
I'd heard that part of the reason for Porters & Stouts being more common across seas in the colonies was also that it simply transported better, especially the stronger varieties with extra ABV, can image the old milds discussed would have ended up pretty stale by the time they made their journeys potentially, where as stout porters more consistent products that could have been more a taste of home.
It would certainly have played a part (more the hopping rate than the ABV) but the main reason was it was cheap!
My experience with Porters and Stouts, at least in America, is that Porters tend to be a bit darker and roastier - like Anchor Porter or Founders Porter which are my favorites. Stouts tend to be a bit creamier and sweeter, especially Guinness, which I find to be a very refreshing drink. I don't find Guinness to be roasty at all.
Bit baffled by this! Modern porters should have some roast, but really be about fruitiness and lighter shades of chocolate. Stout (as we explain in the video) comes from removing the malts that add that fruity character. Guinness is a great beer but not quite a classic stout as it's a "creamed" beer (poured with nitrogen) and sweeter than most stouts but it's still pretty roasty toasty...at least in the UK it is!
You should definitely visit Cyprus. Great weather, and a promising upcoming craft beer scene.
W B Mew, Langton & Co , Royal Brewery, Croker St ,Isle of Wight
Brewed at least Three Porters , Porter, Export Porter and the Gibraltar Porter , which was a sporadically brewed beer; probably for export to Army & Navy Canteens .
I've just completed a comprehensive study of the records of W B Mew Langton 1884-91
Cheers 🍻
Guinness is not especially thick, though new beer drinkers think so. It is actually rather clean tasting, goes down nice and easy. Some of the more robust porters or stouts I think would go well in a warm climate but in the end I suppose its all about the palate. Another great video!
Cheers! I think the perception of Guinness is down to the nitrogen which makes it feel thicker.
Love the transition back in time
loving this! from an audio standpoint, you're getting some pumping on the audio compression.
Not a compression issue but a fault mic!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel aha, glad you know about it! cheers!
That Cheshire Brewhouse beer was stunning.
Sure was. Hoping to film there this year at some point.
Great minds think alike! Except we made a corker of a mistake on our porter/stout episode to do with Baltic Porters 😬😬😬 always learning in this craft beer world!!!
It's got chocolate.
"yeah, chocolate."
Graham cracker.
"graham cracker!"
Berries.
"Yeah, Berries too."
My man hired a parrot.
Dear Mr. javagoblin1585 your comment is very rude. These gentlemen have done a lot of good work in the beer scene and deserve respect. Sir. Jonny Garrett and Sir. Brad Evans, that´s the names you called them.
Stout is stout because it’s a description... (Think “I’m a little teapot short and stout” etc) Guinness literally was called Guinness extra stout Porter... as it was a fuller/bigger kind of porter then they dropped the Porter bit of the name
Stout IS a stout porter. That's it! Today however they have diverged into separate styles (I guess?). Originally, they were the same thing. Porter was the term coined first, the term stout followed with the advent of stronger darker porters. In modern recipes porter usually has a good amount of chocolate and sometimes crystal (carmel) malts while stout is brewed with roasted barley or very dark malts (like black malt). This is not always the case, just a generalization.
P.s. I'm a professional brew master. I know what I'm talking about as I have brewed many porters and stouts over the years. Cheers!
I was hoping to see them say technically there isn’t a difference roll credits and then get into what they’ve come to imply.
Yeah. Many styles.of.pprter. some of them just get called stout in style guidelines. It's stupid. They should revamp the bjcp really.
I’ve read a couple different books on beer history but neither of them explain the origins of stout/porter as concisely as you.
Thanks so much! Glad it helped!
In 1623 Gervase Markham ( born in Nottingham, a soldier , playwright , author and all round bon viveur ) in ' The
English Huswife ' 1625 , lists " Ordinary" and "Second " or "Small " drinke ( mild) using the Guil--fat ( gyle vat ) that everyone drank , a 3 gyled " Marche Beer " " ( spring ale ) with peas ( probably chick peas or grey peas - Parkinsons Paradisus Terrestris 1626 ) wheat and oats , a pale beer for the summer months, and a straight "Strong" ( an Old ale zero or lightly hopped ) , names which have remained with us today . William Cobbett a beer nut that danced around the pubs of East Anglia in an 1823 book devotes a whole 2 chapters to beer production and no mild or stale beer in that tome but confirms the measures and methods used by Markham for the 2X gyled beer . Small beer has stayed in our language used to describe someone incapable of a good fight .
Taxing beer in the 17th C under James 1 ( 6 of Scotland ) introduced the X rating . A barrel branded 1X ( over 4 %) attracted tax . Scotland had the shilling rating which still remains . In England this to abuse with traders marking barrels XX , XXX etc to claim a stronger beer .
IPA was originally brewed by Hodgsons at the 3 Mills site South of Bow Bridge on the old Roman London to Colchester road and used the quality grain coming from East Anglia , drawing their water from the highest part of the then navigable river . Later the Lea Stort Navigation would make barging down river to waiting ships , a breeze. The stretch of the River Lea to the Thames was a haven for the booze industry in particular London Gin that fuelled Victorian East Enders . Brewed to supply the 260 000 soldiers ( twice the size of the British Army of the day ) employed by the East India Company incorporated in 1600 and NOT the British Army. The EIC took rule of India in 1757 and by 1805 had full control of the high seas trade . The Royal Navy patrolled those routes. Anything of value from Booze to drugs went through the IEC into the ports of India , the colonies down under and Treaty Ports of China . The world and its aunty were supping British beer of all types including Strongs and variants thereof and doing British drugs .
Originally a pale well hopped beer of low OG , effectively a well preserved small beer that was cheap , to quench the thirst of their hoards in the East without getting shitfaced . A price hike by the son of Daddy Hodgson and the IEC being short of readies ( yeah right !) , the job went out to tender . Up steps Allsops and clinches the deal with a darker farty brew typical of Burton water . Typically the British abroad dont give a shit what they drink so all is well. Hodgsons didn't just pack up there and then but continued the brewing until eventual demise and sold IPA locally. To cut a long story short after getting slapped by the Indians , the IEC was wound up by the Government in around 1870 . Allsops had partnered with another southern brewery on a cleaner river closer to sea than the Lea and local to the world's largest fishing fleet , The Short Blue at Barking...Ind Coope on the River Rom at Romford.
Romford began brewing a well hopped small beer called IPA that was bottled for export and home consumption similar if not the same as Hodgsons . Ind Coope became HUGE and their IPA sold everywhere into the 20th C . Ind Coope produced another pale , well hopped cask conditioned beer called Romford Bitter ( sometime Bulldog ) that sold locally until sometme before closure in 1992 ( part of Allied Breweries by then) .
Romford Bitter was a well hopped , lightly fruity balanced bitter of I believe 1038 OG , really refreshing in the stinking hot summer ot 1976 . A delightful all day quaffing beer .This sat side by side with a " Burton Ale " probably another legacy from their earlier wedding with Allsops .
I think your sidekick is there to drink beer but not so much have any comments about it lol
Stout gives you gout, porter gets you slaughtered. Just remember that one hundred percent reliable rhyme. Boom!
Excellent analysis lads
Great video boys I love black beer 2 pubs near me try to have one on all the time wish more pubs did
not sure if anyone else is picking up on the audio, but it's jumping around a lot. probably due to Jonny moving his head. changing the distance from the mic. It might have been fixable in the edit through Compressors, Limiters, and Gates
It's a faulty mic unfortunately down to a loose connection. Sadly only heard once in the edit.
A really good beer from the norwegian brewery Kinn is Svartekunst (Black Arts), and they call it a Foreign Extra Double Imperial Russian Export Stout Porter ;)
I.... I can only respect this level of trolling in beer names.
Cracking job as always gents! Learned some new stuff too! :)
i've tried 115 stouts and 37 different porters and i find them mostly indistinguishable.
Then you have tried 152 Porters, as Stout is a variety of Porter. You probably know this.
Yeah. There's no functional difference. There's like 10 styles.of porter but some.of them get called.stout.
My favourite stouts remind me of ashtrays. Sounds strange but I love that
Thanks, guys. Great info!
recommend both ...... dont see porter often but its very good ... // not keen on tinned bottle or keg is usually best .. appreciate guiness is diffrent drink but guiness varies around the world ... // from dublin guiness to nigerian guiness both good just different ..
You need to review pöhjala and omnipolo porters / stouts ...
Perfection
We've done so many times! In fact, on April 9th we're interviewing Pojhala live on the channel!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel excellent
Great video. Guinness is perfect for hot weather because it’s light and refreshing. Kind of like an iced coffee
Brilliant. Thank you for sharing this.
I wish I would have known about this chanel a few year's ago.
Never too late to enjoy the back catalogue!
As someone who prefers dark and bitter beers but hasnt taken the time to look up the distinctions, this question of the difference between a stout and a porter has often been one that has come up over a round of pints. So thank you for the explanation. I always though the difference partly had something to do with the texture as in stouts were 'creamier' like a guiness/murphys and porters were 'thinner' like ales but just dark. You didnt mention this distinction which makes me think that you can get stouts and porters with either texture - is this correct or does the texture mean something in the distinction between stouts and porters?
I think this comes out of Guinness's dominance of the market - we kind of assume all stouts have to be served on nitro so they are creamy, but very much not the case! THere are nitro porters, and indeed non-nitro stouts.
Ah that makes sense - thank you for taking the time to reply. Ill have to look up a nitro porter then, as that sounds very interesting :)
@@Littletass if youre british, Anspach & Hobday Black is a brilliant one!
You guys need to make it to the US once the pandemic is done and make it to Tampa Bay, Florida. Once a year Cigar City Brewery releases a beer called Hunahpu. You can only pick it up for a week time frame in bottles in March. But they do carry older versions on tap that you can get tastes of or glasses of.
We've explored Tampa Bay at great length on the channel... although we didn't film at Cigar City when we went. We just drank. All the videos are here: ruclips.net/video/m9GAS2URdjg/видео.html
Porters don't have use roasted barley, just malted barley. But the lines are somewhat blurred lately
It's a given that all the barley is malted, otherwise the sugars & enzymes aren't available. The sprouted barley is toasted to halt the growing process by different amounts, which along with the sugar content determines what kind of malt it is, pale, crystal, dark, etc.
@@capoeirastronaut Roasted barley, the signature grain of stout, is unmalted.
“Tea in the summer” lol like “Ice cream in winter” here in Canada 🤟🏼
Great discussion
I brewed a clone of The Kernel Export India Porter. Turned out great and the favourite of a few mates.
Two of my favorites. I don’t, generally, drink beers that I can read a newspaper though.
Greetings from Ireland. I don't know what the modern day difference is supposed to be but back in the day when the Guinness manufacturing process wouldn't have been as consistent as modern methods (Even differences in Barley moisture content made a big difference for example). Guinness used an X rating to grade the output (I've always assumed this is where Castlemaine XXXX naming came from, probably an industry grading for Beer?). Anyway, the XXX rating was the best quality and most expensive, porter was the lowest quality (single X) and drunk by the working class and they called it Porter. Even my Grandfather always referred to Guinness as porter. That's what I was told by a very dedicated Guinness drinker once upon a time (Chris Corr RIP), so our definition of Porter might be different.
Thanks for the Shout Out to Us American Compadre's! Great video content 👍 Cheerio! ✌️❤️😎
You guys have a great job. Great video
Not yet a full time one but we will get there!
How often do you guys drink? I'm just curious because I get drunk like every night on different styles of beer and watch your videos on the history of said types of beers. So in my mind, you are drinking with me, and also get drunk every night 😂