Join Us or Die - The Naval Battle of Casablanca
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- When the British dared to attack the neutral French forces stationed at Mers El Kebir in Algeria, the French sailors refused to surrender their ships and suffered significant damage and losses.
The French felt betrayed, and that feeling of animosity fueled the sentinels in Casablanca harbor when they first spotted a United States Navy task force approaching the coasts.
Like the British, the Americans were not there to play games or ask permission to land troops. They were there to take Casablanca and even thought they would be received as liberators.
However, they were wrong, and the French forces would defend the city with all their might…
My grand father Frank Cormeir was on the Heavy Fast Cruiser USS Tuscaloosa .
His battle station was in the #2 turret, serving an 8 inch rifle as a gunners mate.
When he wasnt at the battle station, his Duty Station was as one the crane operators for recovering the ships 'eyes in the sky' aerial observation seaplanes. He received two commendations for safe aircraft recovery.
Tuscaloosa fought off of North Africa, Sicily, Italy, Southern France, Utah Beach and when the fighting went inland, they were off to the Pacific, to Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
Later in life, he was a crane operator for a billboard company, but thats in his later life.
He was aboard from June 1937 until Dec 1945.
This is my absolute favorite naval battle to look at. It’s so exciting and the fact that the most famous ship of this engagement, Massachusetts, is still around today is just awesome. The naval legends animation of the battle is the best!
Really? I’ll have to check it out. The battle of Casablanca is really a fascinating one indeed
Fall River, baby!
@@galacticthreat1236 yup! I saw her, so cool. They also have a sub, a Gearing Class Destroyer, and an East German Corvette
USS Massachusetts is the most legendary US battleship, and did what she was designed to do, sink an enemy battleship, and tanked a 15 inch shell. She sank one battleship in port, sank one light cruiser, sank a destroyer flotilla leader, and sank two destroyers. The best part is that she’s still around today in Falls River, Massachusetts
I’d actually argue Washington. She sank a battleship when the enemy battleship was actually operational and complete
@@bluemoon1368 I would say that she’s a close second, but what makes Massachusetts cooler in my opinion is the fact that both ships exchanged fire (with Massachusetts tanking a 15 inch shell) rather than just sneaking up to pint blank range and ending the enemy battleship without a fight. Washington is still very legendary, though.
@@bluemoon1368 true but jean bart was a far more formidable battleship than the old era japaneese battleship washington went ip against
Sinking an incomplete and immobile battleship (that had to be finished off by a carrier) really isn’t impressive.
The SoDaks in general have overblown reputations for what they ended up doing, possibly even more so than the Iowas. Meanwhile Washington got scrapped despite actually doing something of note…
@@bluemoon1368 bold of you to call a modernised battlecruiser a battleship.
My father was on one of those landing craft in that battle. He never talked much about it, except that there was supposed to be a 'deal' with the French that they would surrender without a fight. Well, I guess that didn't happen! Dad's next amphibious landing adventure was on Sicily, and then Salerno. He was 19 years old by the time they got there.
God bless your father.
@@BillMcSwain Thank you. He's in the National Cemetery at Fort Indiantown Gap, Pa. Just a couple of miles from my farm. I stop in to see him and mom now and then, and also see some of the guys and gals I served with way back. I say some prayers for them all. I hope it helps. But thank you for your kind words.
I had never heard of this action. Dark Seas (and all the Dark channels) as always sharing an education we can't find anywhere else. Thank you!!
Yeah a tainted anti american reimagining of history with convincing visuals and altered narratives.
@@shinyguy3766 actually a pretty unbiased recount of past armed conflicts.
@@peytonberg7872 There is no such thing as unbiased. Only honest intent and dishonest intent.
You should check out Drachinifel if you want to see more about ships, the guy does some pretty good videos on ships
@@shinyguy3766 The Vichy French were asked again and again just to chance sides so useless blood loss would not happen.
At that point they knew of the atrocities of the Vichy regime but choose to stay on that side and even fight of the Allies. This wasn’t the only time the Vichy French kept fighting against the Allies, it was the leaders who were hardcore Nazis at the time and were hoping to get to power after the Germans were thrown out.
This is a great channel, the content is 👌keep it going 👍
I grew up in the South Coast area of massachusetts. Whenever I drive to Rhode Island over the Braga bridge in Fall river, you can see the main Mast of the Massachusetts and the tips of her guns sticking out. We love our ship!
As a senior Midshipman in the US NAVY during my 1st Class Summer Training Cruise in the summer of 1968, I spent much time in Toulon as a guest of the French Navy. There, I viewed & visited the battleship Jean Bart and later watched her towed away for scrap. Powerful & beautiful as any Iowa-class battleship, she carried 15 inch guns in quadruple turrets, twelve guns total! Later, I visited the USS Massachusetts with 16 inch guns in triple turrets (the memorial ship now berthed in Fall River, Massachusetts) that dueled with the Jean Bart. Seeing the Jean Bart towed away, without power & will, quietly and without fanfare, seemed somehow unjust to her history.
There's always an unspeakable sadness when a proud ship has come to her end.. I'm British; it's a sadness I know *too well*
🇬🇧🇺🇲🇫🇷
Wasn't Jean Bart armed with 8, not 12 15" guns? Two quads forward, secondary armament aft.
@@unbearifiedbear1885 they couldn't keep a single royal navy battleship to preserve
@@HACM-mk3qx Yes, Jean Bart's Main Battery only had 8 15" guns.
@@Captain_Brian78 Yes, I think you're correct. If I recall now, the upper foward turrett had two guns. The rear, turret, however, I seem to recall had four guns as did the lower forward turret. I may be mistaken after these years.
There are so many US WW2 Battles that are forgotten to the sands of time in the popular collective memory and only known by the men that fought them, Historians/college students and YT Channels like this one. I didn't know about this til watching it. There's many, many more that I know I don't know about. Like how many Battles in the Pacific Theater that don't involve the USMC? The Battles that the US Army and the Commonwealth Forces have been kind of forgotten in the modern era. Popular Culture seems to focus on the Island Hopping Campaign and not everywhere else in East Asia. It's really sad.
One of few that reference "sands of time" followed by great insight. Thank you
@@TM-yn4iu I'll remember that, if I ever I use the saying "sands of time", to follow up!
There's so many more WW2 Battles that sacrificed USA Lives that are forgotten! Not just the Pacific Theater, but the European Theater. Especially the bombings in the Balkans that choked up the Nazi supply of petroleum. Wars are not "Won" by winning a battle, but by cutting off the Enemy's ability to fight.
@@YankeeBigBird so many in that war, lost for evil objectives. The "sands of time", wrote on the memories of my experiences much later. I always express "protected from the erosive waves of time" . Thank you good night from Austin, TX and thank your words. Old vet from a place of thought.
@@TM-yn4iu I hear you Brother! I'm a Vet too (11B, NG). So many "Missions", Convoy Security for empty Haliburton bullshit convoys in Iraq. Got to keep the inflated cost up for the shareholders..(allegedly)....
Never ceases to grieve me or amaze me how human Pride can cost the lives of so many for no reason there was no way the French could win and there was no reason for them to fight us
I got to visit USS Massachusetts in Fall River, MA several times. Big Mamie lives up to her legend.
I got to visit Alabama recently as well. Truly amazing ships!
I have read General Patton's book War As I Knew It several times. He was on the Agusta when a salvo from the Jean Bart splashed a volume of spray on him and he lost one of his pistols. I don't think anyone other than another American who has been in real battle can imagine the thrill and fear all those brave military guys went through. Sorry people but I just reread the story, the pistols were the only items saved from the incident in the battle.
Or all the civilians in UK cities as Luffwaffe bombers bombed them night after night
Patton: welp, there goes my revolver
Remember, Vichy was loyal to the Third Reich.
The french still are. Does it seem Germany lost ww2? They head the UN and EU.
Now tell us something we don't know.
Vichy French state, not the Vichy Marine Nationale.
No they weren’t lol, they had no choice. Forceful subdued does not inspire “loyalty”
@@hc3657 with how quickly and forcefully the Nazis swept in to France they probably felt their was no choice. This part of France was a Nazi occupied territory that was allowed to rule as its own French state under Nazi supervision. It was a slap in the face to the French people, just as Hitler’s influence is to the history of Germany.
This is entirely new to me. I knew in general about Operation Torch but this exciting series of battles never came in my view. thanks for enlightening me.
Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Amazing how this subject has been kept quiet for many years. I had always been given the impression that French in Morocco had welcomed the US soldiers with open arms. It was not until I left school and read more deeply did I read that the French fought to defend Vichy France under General Petain.
Its more complicated than that, this battle is all about miscommunication. French soldiers who died in this battle were for the most welcoming american soldiers, they didnt have a choice.
My father fought in Italy in WWII. He told me that at one point his division had been put on alert due to French incursions into Northern Italy after the surrender. Eventually the French backed down. Keep in mind I was quite young when he told me about this so expect my memories are less than accurate. If this is the case though I'd like to hear more about it.
_"That's the Hull designed.. now, where abouts shall we put the guns?"_
*"Yes."*
That was a fantastic video
The USS Massachuetts fired the first 16” shells of WWII during Operation Torch. It also fired the “last” 16” shell of WWII.
Unimportant trivia: Massachusetts is a sister ship to USS Alabama. She served alongside the Tuscaloosa in this action - which I is named after the city in Alabama.
Would that be 16” American shells or 16” HMS Rodney shells used against Bismarck in May 1941.
HMS Rodney & Nelson 1941 beg to differ.
@@chrismalloy7688 mk 8 superheavies
@@orwellboy1958 oh, thanks for the correction. So were they the first or last or both regarding 16” shells?
Excellent Video, Thank You Sir. 👍 🇺🇸
Great episode! Lost history!
Thanks, didn't know anything about this action.
My father was a fire control officer on a tin can in WWII. His ship was in that task force and to his dying day he hated the French. I asked him why, he said “They tried to kill me”.
An understandable anger
I’ve been a subscriber for a long time your documentaries are fascinating thank you
Thank you for the great and interesting content keep up the good work
Can you do a video about Laffy(Benson class destroyer)
Lol, those two German submarines inflicted more casualties than the entire French garrison and navy stationed at Casablanca!
The military prowess of Germany was indeed legendary...
I wonder how they managed to lose the war with all that 'prowess'.
Thanks Dr Felton sorry wrong channel
There were 2 US Battleships present at Casablanca for Operation Torch
USS Massachusetts & USS Texas
Good to see the second battle against the Vichy navy. Pity the commentary Bot still needs a bit more editing. This (as with the Madagascar campaign, also in a bit of Vichy "neutral" territory) showed that France was deeply divided in its relations with Nazi Germany. Elements of the French military fought valiantly as the Free French and Resistance whilst others threw away their men's lives fighting to prevent the allies throwing the Nazis out of France.
As a military firearms collector there is an old saying about the French firearms alway being in the best condition as “they were only dropped once”
The Uboats mainly used their deck guns to sink commercial shipping. They should have mounted two. They actually lost some fights with armed commercial ships and sometimes got caught by planes and sunk while they were still pounding away at a ship. Two guns would have made quick work of things and also would have been more effective for shore bombardment and taking out things like light houses bridges and ferries.
I knew of the British attack on the French Fleet - Churchill later remarked of Admiral Darlan that he had "but to sail in any one of his ships to any port outside France to become the master of all French interests beyond German control." Darlan could have become "the chief of the French Resistance with a mighty weapon in his hand." Churchill believed the Admiral could have been the "Liberator of France".
But that was not to happen. Although Admiral Darlan was strong in his commitment to prevent the Germans from seizing a single French ship, Churchill was not convinced. Losing Britian's last fighting ally in the war is one thing, but allowing that ally's fleet to fall in the hands of the Germans was something to lose sleep over.
The concern was not over the French using their fleet to assist their new conqueror. The real concern was that Germany would train their own sailors to command those ships.
Members of Britain's own navy spent time with the commanders of the French Fleet. They were convinced that the commanders were dedicated to the cause of not surrendering to the Germans.
But they refused to hand their ships over to the Allies, and the British destroyed them, in Port.
I did not know about THIS Battle, for Cassablanca. It really makes the French of the day gallant... but so prideful and, eventually, they suffered a stupid loss of life and Ships, and many American lives were lost because of their intransigence. So futile and very sad.
What a terrible waste.
People snigger about the Italians changing sides.
But forget the French fought simultaneously on both sides and against each other.
This battle never need happened had Admiral Darlan taken the same decision as did De Gaule, the Free French and the thousands of Resistance fighters. Darlan, like the commander in Madagascar, chose to make their men (and in Madagascar, many of the troops were from the French colonies in Africa) fight in support of Germany.
5:58
it was in this 1st American operation on the Western front that
(later colonel USAF, ace in Korea) Harrison Thyng got his first victories.
The Massachusetts was a freaking one-ship murderer’s row. She was Mike Tyson on a tear.
Iffin you ain't with us, you must be agin us.[ Abe L.]
I am sorry it was NOT surrender or die. There were several alternatives. One of which was to sail to French west indies. The French themselves had talked of sailing to America for internment. Do NOT blame the British. They could not leave the french naval units were they were they were to dangerous.
French Do what the French want to Do !!! Met a lady her uncle was Killed by Them..
With reference to Operation Catapult, I think the most important thing to come from it was that it demonstrated - particularly to the US - that the UK was prepared and committed to fight on. Horrible business, though, hated by the RN commanders at the time but the French could have easily prevented it by doing the right things. Arguments about hindsight and perspective are all well and good but sometimes they cloud issues and in this case I think the French could have and should have taken very different decisions.
@@geordiedog1749 part of the problem was that in the French and American camps there were people who just did not like the British
@@TheWareek I don’t know if you’ve watched any of ‘Armoured Carriers’ stuff but his section on the Martlet is interesting as it describes a lot of sabotage of planes being sent to the U.K. from the U.S.
@@TheWareek Its the same everywere hate is everywere especialy at this time no social media no tech .
Great presentation!
Can't believe this is the first time ive ever heard of this battle!
Patton was on one of the ships looking out with his binoculars when a range finding charge was fired by the French. It was a Dye charge of bright Yellow and patton was covered in yellow dye that was all but impossible to remove for weeks. Lucky for him he was in rain gear and only his faCE AND HANDS WERE DYED.....
Being born in 1949 and having watched war movie from the 50s, I only remember being told there was a short spat and the Americans moved it. If this report is correct, why did we ever consider the French our allies?
The French have always taken the easy way out! They were in the middle of Europe during both World Wars. The Germans/Prussian on one flank, and Great Britain/USA on the other. DeGaul should have been in front of a firing squad, not revered as a hero. It was easier to surrender than to do the right thing! 1950 for me!
Well, there were the Free French forces who fought alongside the Allies from the French surrender in 1940-on, but the defenders of Casablanca were Vichy French forces. These were not the same government/leadership. Vichy France was a piece of southern/eastern France that was not under German control, but was allegedly "neutral" following the French surrender in 1940. The Germans occupied Vichy France in 1943. The Free French Forces were a very different group of fighters...
@@andylangeland496 exactly
After its military defeat by Germany in 1940, right-wingers in France set up the authoritarian “Vichy” French government under General Phillip Pétain (WWI hero promoted to the rank of ‘Marshal’) to collaborate with Adolf Hitler’s Nazi Germany, which had invaded and occupied Northern France and the coast). French military units that survived the German ‘blitzkrieg’ invasion were united under French Army General Charles de Gaulle, who became the leader-in-exile of ‘democratic’ Allied France.
The Vichy French government that helped empower fascism in Nazi Germany might be thought of this way: it was not dissimilar to the type of authoritarian government that today’s right-wing extremists are working to establish in America - led by Donald Trump and in collaboration with Vladimir Putin of Russia.
At least this conservative conspiracy to topple American democracy from within was exposed before being fully implemented. Financed by elite and wealthy, right-wing American industrialists who are allied with racist, white Christian extremists intent on ‘Dominionist Rule,’ these insurrectionists seem willing to sanction violent takeover using intimidation, threats and terrorism. Other rebels have infiltrated Congress and The Judiciary, the military, and of course, state and local governments. Fortunately, fascism is still fascism. At least we’ve recognized that dangerous fascists remain among us, even in this modern age. Such are the lessons of history.
You guys must open a history book
Do you know what types of aircraft were being used?
Too bad the French didn't fight back like this when the Germans showed up...
The problem was not the fighting spirit of the French Poilus. It was the disastrous French strategy and poor leadership from the French political leaders.
Blame the leaders, not the soldiers spirit to fight.
@@davidkinsey8657 and the brits too they were the first to run for their lives at dunkerque!
@@davidlefranc6240 No, the French Army had collapsed and withdrawn, leaving most of the BEF cut off from resupply. Churchill gave orders that equal priority should be given to evacuating French, Belgian and British forces. Several divisions of the British Army were outside the Dunkirk pocket, and remained fighting alongside the French Army until the French surrendered.
Thank you for another great video. That voice is the best Bot ever! 😉
My family lived in Casablanca at that time, shame on Vichy and thanks to Americans liberators
USS Massachusetts
fired the first and last 16-in shells of world war II for America
Badass boat
I'm glad you said "for America" otherwise I might have had an issue.
"A fight broke out between BOTH sides"? Well you don't see that very often.
A good video on an under reported action.
Texas took part in operation torch to some extent.
Texas, New York, and Arkansas were all part of the bombardment forces.
So for any of the "what if Jean Bart was fully operational and a fair fight for Massachusetts" type questions if Jean Bart is fully operational the US probably sends TX or NY in with Massachusetts and double teams her. You don't volunterally pick a fair fight if you have the forces to make it an unfair fight.
Interesting. At 4:15 it shows a French soldier shooting an American made M1 Garand rifle.
USS Block Island the only US Aircraft Carrier to be sunk in the Atlantic Ocean during World War 2.
They were heavily outgunned from the beginning with no hope to win. They should have surrendered and avoid the loss of life. I wouldn't call this fighting spirit but stupidity. According to the art of war you should never fight a losing battle.
They should have steamed out to the British and put themselves under the command of Admiral Sir Harold Burrough. They were traitors to France and deserved their fate.
This is why we should own franchise right now. They were no better than the germans
Brooklyn was a light cruiser, not a heavy.
To win any battle on must fight as if already dead
I Like Ike.
So the the frogs surrendered Again to the Krauts but would not let the Brits have their ships to aid them in the fight that they bailed out of but wanted to defend casablanca against the allies. Strange breed the French.
Background music is tedious. Unless it has some significance to the story please drop it.
AT 4:14 that french is firing a M-1 Garand, U.S. standard arm in WW2.
The first time the United States and France fought a naval battle it didn't go well for France, but the Casablanca battle showed just how much the United States Navy had grown up since the 1790s.
It was the vichy regime
@@davidlefranc6240 "Vichy"? That's just the same as don't getting all smoochy with pooty poot, collaborating to destroy American democracy. And how "sad" it is now that Vlad the Impaler is currently getting his @$$ kicked by the Ukrainians!😍
Well France was limited at this time and US only fight against a remote colonial city. At this time French army has already been stripped of most of its armaments (tanks and guns) by the germans.
Where is Captain Renault when you need him? Gambling!
I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling going on in here.
What happened to the French forces in the Caribbean after the invasion of north Africa
The United States was concerned that gold taken to Martinique from the Bank of France would fall into Nazi hands and drew up plans for an invasion of the islands, but in the Robert-Greenslade agreements, the U.S. agreed to supply Antilleans with basic necessities in exchange for their neutrality. In a time of increasing hunger and deprivation known as “An tan Robè,” Guadeloupeans and Martinicans liberated themselves from Vichy rule through an armed uprising in 1943. from "Seeking Imperialism's Embrace: National Identity, Decolonization, and Assimilation in the French Caribbean"
I think that the Free French held most of the Caribbean (Idk, I just think, not confirmed by anyone or anything)
The French better be glad I wasn’t in command.
WoW, when France 🇫🇷 fought USA 🇺🇸??
British units during Torch donned US markings hoping that the Vichy would be less inclined to fight Americans.
that portion of French Navy was not wise enough to join the Allies..
This battle always struck me as such a waste by the French
The french will never learn. They allways seem to have their own agenda, own objectives.
Or just like one Iowa battleship
The French commander was a German sympathizer.
How many 22. Bullets did they use?
as soon as I heard the name mark clark it explains why it was stuff up
0:12
The French ships on that day had their number of deaths the
4/7th of the American deaths at Pearl Harbour
Imagine if the invasion force of Iwo Jima or Okinawa were taking place in this battle 😂
"The French felt betrayed, "
They should have felt stupid. This is like the planned last sortie by the HSF. Its only purposes involved dying for the honor of a few officers.
Talk about a SERIOUS SNAFU of communication which turned into a regular shit show that could've been avoided.
After Mers El Kebir it was pretty difficult to trust the allies I guess
They weren't allied it was the regime that gived france to the nazi probably too complicated for you!
@@davidlefranc6240 allies not allied, reading is not your forte
@@damien2198 Well anybody can make some mistakes !
👍👍👍
British have always said....never trust the French....this vid shows good words to live by XD
france was the only nation that helped the US in the war for our independence.
@@judd-on5vz true but they were more looking to stick it to the english than help america. and it bankrupted them they spent 5 yrs of their annual budget on their aid in that conflict.
The French have a saying "Perfidious Albion"....meaning double dealing not to be trusted " Roast Beefs".
The two have been at war for centuries...William the Conquerer started it in 1066.....Although "French" the Normans were descended from Viking stock.
They didn't join us and most did not die. Really not "into" accuracy, are you?
God bless the USS Winooski
J’ai encore chez moi un éclats d’obus que mon père a ramassé encore chaud devant chez nous bd Moulay Youssef à Casablanca où je suis né.
The Big Mamie"!
Well that went swimmingly, didn't it? What a mess.
Thats the French for you
If the damn frogs had fought the krauts this hard, then maybe we would've never fought them at Casablanca
Well again the vichy regime was a nazi aligned allied !
Sadly, the way it was done to fight the French was the badest way. The disregard of some US politicians of the time and some UK one over France combined to the desire to took over the French Empire for themselve (what has been done in the pacific up today with the vietnam and Ankus story) push to make the badest choice for this war and operations that lead to many useless death.
Hopefully some French politician turn the tide to have the population supporting the US as many citizen where reluctant after mers el kebir and this affaire to support US.
beating the nazi would have been a lot harder if France turn to be a reliable allied of Germany instead of sabotage their work.
And as always some French bashing all other. Just think in 1939 US has nearly no tanks, no good planes and stay gently aside to any fight.
They only more in december 1941, 3 year after the battle of France where france fight the Entiere German army (twice its size) with its allied, Russia (yes, they provide weapons and allow most of german troops to be on the west front) and Germany.
When US goes to war they only fight a small part of the german army, most of its tankks and plane where in russia.
After 1942 France fight back with US along side in all battle of the war and in Italy where up to 50% of the troops.
France fight and has a lot of loss in 1940, army was encircled and as there where no sigh of US wishing to go on fight nor will of UK fighting at this time it was useless to continue the fight.
France has lost 30% of its man force in WWI aleady and 10% of its population, it was just 20 years ago and the country was bleeded, there are no families without dead from WWI in France.
less desire for a fight to the end. As there where no desire from US to die to defend France and UK at the time.
Germany in opposite was seen as a friend of US especially by influent people like Hugues. US only goes to war because Germany declare it, else they would not have go to war.
So it is easy to critisize when you came 3 year after the battle and have plenty of time to re arm and an ocean to protect. Paris is just 130 miles to the belgium/german border not 2000 like the US are.
France knew darn good and well what Germany was up to and they failed to prepare for it. They discounted real troop formations, lacked good intel on German tank tech, and got completely trounced by them. It was a pathetic loss, one that never should have happened, De Gaulle said so himself and even railed against the powers that be over their defensive strategy.
France WW2(Germany is invading): no more fighting we surrender!
France WW2(when allies come to liberate them) : fight to the last men! 🤦🤦🤦
They fight German but army was encircled and UK flee at Dunkirk wile US was hidding away refusing the figt. Just remember at the time France was fighting Italy, Germany, japan Russia, the german allied.
When US goes to war they fight a small german army, most of its troops where in Russia not in the west Front.
US never fight more that 20% of what French fights in 1940 as most troops where east.
@@inwedavid6919 that’s the dumbest shit I ever read 😂
The French didn't fight with all there might they fought with foolishness and error
vichy regime
Never knew this, too bad there wasn't better communication, many losses that were not necessary.
Thanks for another well-researched and presented video, as we have all come to expect from Dark Seas.
Surely the reason why this situation developed into open military hosilities was because the Vichy Government of France were puppets of the Nazi regime. There was widespread antisemitism in France (as there was in most European nations) and the top French naval commanders were Nazi sympathisers.
Added to this, Britian and France had had frequent wars over the past 1,000 years - one of which lasted for an entire century. Many French people viewed the UK as more of an enemy than as a friend, despite the fact that the UK and France had been on the same side in WW1.
And as Vichy France saw America as being aligned to the UK, again even though the Americans had been allies of France during WW1, nonetheless they were seen as the enemy by these French commanders.
This is a reflection of the fact that WW2 was in large part a conflict of political ideologies - fascism v democracy - more than it was between nations. Vichy France was fascist, although of course General de Gaulle was a democrat, and eventually went on to become President of France.
Whilst fascism had not taken root and turned France into a fascist state like Germany, nonetheless there were significant numbers of extreme right-wing figures within the French elite and leading politicians.
Ultimately, it was the intransigence of those in charge of the French Navy which forced the hand of Churchill, Roosevelt and Eisenhower. The French Naval Fleet moored at Mers El Kebir represented a significant threat to allied shipping. CLearly, had the French commanders been willing to surrender their ships to the allies, then the allies would have increased their naval force significantly.
I really love your stuff, but, please get an Editor for your Commentary. Were the Attacks unsuccessful, or, were the Results lackluster. Above the Skies? What does that even mean?
You use words in a way that cripples your Storytelling.
Please, get an Editor.
"PLAY BALL !" :D
dont assume another force will conform to your plan
The French have a habit of collaborating with the enemy ..
After Dec 7th 1941, we were Fully commented too the Damn Thing.
Thus when the Vichy French, couldn't decide. It took Force too convince them too change Thier Alliances. My Uncle was in the USAA Corp in Europe Serving from 1940- 1946 as a Mechanic on Fighter Aircraft.
As Other's have Commented, it's a Shame? So much information hasn't been given about so many Battle's, Engagements, Navel Action's, or Key Operations elsewhere. Let us be Reminded, that the War lasted from Sept. 39 - Aug. 45 almost Six Year's of Global Conflict. That was along Frickin Time, & a lot of Shit Happened during those Years.
The Information is all Recorded TG in the Libraries n Museum's, of Our Countries? As well as the World 🌍🌍. Just some Good Thorough Research will get the Ordinary Person the Information, they Seek.
But it does Take Personal Effort.
As for the Prior Video n Documentary? IT was most Excellent informative and Fantastic as always.
Thank You Dark Doc's, for Providing it. I personally Loved it.
So where's the regret? French forces barely delayed the operation, the French acted foolishly.
What else is new?
Gee, it would have been nice if the French Navy had actually fought the Germans
and its telling the French air force really suck dogfights iwth the USN fighter groups did not suffer any losses but shot down all the French aircraft.
Partially true. French almost have no AA guns on Land or sea, but USN ships had a heavy AA capacity. So most of french aircrafts was shot down before even see a us fighter