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Why I Avoid Homage Watches
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2024
- I think it's about time that we talked about homage watches. I've been incredibly vocal regarding the matter, but I feel it's time for a dedicated video to discuss the subject.
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I think the aliexpress homage watches are actually keeping the industry alive.
The sales numbers for paganis,seesterns, san martins etc are crazy, a lot of people bought their first mechanical watches from them.
They also buy a ton of movements from the big traditional companies.
And if we're talking about the submariner specifically, many micro brands were able to succes because of one for one copies of it( I'm looking at you Phoibos)
My point is: without the "knock off"watches big brands would charge more, for less specs, making the apple watch the only reasonable choice.
What are you talking about? Big brands have been charging more way before Chinese clones came into the picture.
2nd hand market has plenty of mechanical watches available for little money.
Hard argument to make, the San Martin vs the orient. Let’s assume you are a big fan of watches, and you are building a collection. Let’s assume you spend the same money on both collections. Now on one side you have a collection of 6 watches with sapphire crystal, great fit and finish, and nh30/nh35 movements, and on the other side. You have 6 watches with mineral crystal, mediocre finishing and the exact same nh30/nh35, or quartz movemwnts. Then you have the third option of old being able to afford 1 premium brand watch, which was the same cost as all 12 of the other watches together, only to realize that it’s powered by the same nh35 movement.
I have an original Seiko Willard blackout, I spent over a thousand pounds, before I bought this I bought the Steeldive 1970, for 70 quid. It has a 200 meter water resistance, sapphire crystal, seiko movement. Great bracelet, loom and bezel. If the Vietnam War was fought tomorrow, this is the watch the troops would get. A proper cheap, tool watch, you can break rocks with... Do you want to live in the now or live in the past? Some people don't give a crap about originality and just want to live their lives, dig their garden and feel proud of their purchase and the bargain it is..., and who cares if the shape of the case is a comfy Willard style?
Man im sorry but i hard disagree. The fact that a new homage brand seem to pop up every other day too me says that their is a gap in the market place for these watch brads. Most people who buy their first watch dont career about brand, heritage, ect. They want a cheep good looking new accessory that goes good with their outfit. Secondly the hole notion that no effort goes into making a homage seem absurd to me, the fact that a guy went to a manufacture, a distributor, an online market place to sell watches all that took no effort a guy just woke up and it all just fell into place with ZERO effort?
Almost my ENTIRE collection is homage watches. I own some Seikos, and others, homage will always be the way I go. I’m a barber and cannot afford luxury watches, so I will almost always buy higher end Chinese watches. If you’re lucky enough in life to afford luxury, good on you! That’s just not the reality for most of us. Maybe someday I’ll sell some of my collection and buy one entry level luxury watch….MAYBE!…but not very likely….lol
If you gave me the money for a submariner and then put a Cronus or San Martin in front of me I’d get the Cronus, then spend the rest on other watches simply because Rolex has become a status symbol and not just a watch brand. That being said if you can afford it and you love the original go for it, but if I cannot afford the original but I love the design, I don’t see an issue with a clone/homage as long as you’re not trying to pass it off as the original. For example I love the bond style seamaster with the gold and titanium design, but I can’t afford it, but steeldive has a very nice homage for a couple hundred.
Same goes for me with the blue Glashütte Diver. I get it from Seestern SeaQ. And Glashütte doesnt lose a customer cause I will never ever pay 10k for a watch😂
Glashütte aren't losing a customer, but a genuine microbrand is... That's the point
@@TopTierTickerI'm not a watch romantic guy who wants to "donate" money to "real" watch brands so the "art" doesn't die out. Microbrands are also bit overpriced for the fact that they have no history, qc problems, difficult to sell and sometimes get too much "inspiration" e.g. Traska, Lorier.. I have a few Tissot, Seikos, Casio, Citizen, so I would never buy Aliexpress Seiko Copys etc. But Glashütte is so damn expensive, unique, I can't find any alternatives.
PS: I dont have the Seestern SeaQ cause Im to much in love with the squiggly font of the Glashütte Logo, the Seestern looks too plain :D
For the cost of a real Sub, I can buy a few San Martins and Cronos, and have enough to buy a proper motorcycle! You tell me what’s a better deal.
@@TopTierTickerwhat's the ISL reference number for the Islander watch shown at the 2:54 mark of this video? Stunning piece. I will reference you and your channel when I place my order. Any help?
I have watches ranging from a San Martin Pelagos homage up to an Omega Speedmaster. Buy and enjoy what you like when you're able to, there's a place for all kinds of watches. Just never buy fakes or clones and it's all good.
recently sold my tudor ranger 39 and settled with the san martin pelagos titanium
I recently bought the Seestern Sub300T a clone/homage to the Doxa 300T. I can afford a Doxa 300T, but recently a slew of reviewers have indicated that the quality of the Doxa brand had significantly dropped. The Seestern is now at the 3rd release, and they have improved the quality each time. Out of the box my Seestern is running at +.4 secs per day according to my timegrapher. The workmanship is top notch. The lume is C3, and in side by side comparisons, better than what Doxa is putting on the 300T. I value quality. For Me, the Seestern is quality.
Doxa is still the real one. Same with furniture , Eames lounge replica has 1/10 of price tag of real, but people still buy real ones?
Your points are valid and well articulated.
However, I’ll stick to my Steeldive SD1970 for now. I would always want to get an actual Seiko but since I live in the Philippines where buying a Seiko is considered expensive by most people and that I have more things to prioritize than saving for a Seiko, I’m going to stick to my Steeldive.
Another point is that in our society, most people here don’t care about what other people wear or what people wear on their wrists. Most people I talked to don’t even know what a self-winding watch is. So I will enjoy my homage as it is something that I have bought for myself after saving for months.
I own both Chinese homages and some entry level Swiss watches; also an automatic Bulova. The most expensive piece in my collection is a humble Hamilton Jazzmaster quartz! It retails for USD 590; but to me it should cost 300. On the other hand, my Paganis cost $50 and should cost $200, based on quality and specs; and (since they copy some of the most iconic, timeless designs) they look like they cost 500 (I've asked friends to try to guess the actual price of my homages; they all thought they were around the 500 mark). So, I guess everyone should buy what makes them happy. I'm happy collecting and exploring different styles, at a ridiculous price, with excellent looks and specs. If I had more money, I would avoid homages too. I would only collect original pieces from recognized brands. But man, 10 Paganis only buy you one 500 dollar watch, which is anyway considered "entry level" in the watch community. Is it worth it? I don't know. The problem we have is Chinese homages have spoiled many of us. Now we look at a 200 dollar Seiko, see that horrid bracelet, and think "what's the point"? I can buy four Chinese, better built, for the same money. One thing bothers me, though: people who are judgemental about people who buy homages. Watches don't define yourself. They are just accessories.
I am for the homage. The majority cannot afford greedy big brands and that will drive them to follow the trend and put on a crappy smart watch. But if they have a chance with a homage so be it . That is the real support to the classic watch. At the end you have the two options (original and homage) and you choose what suits you best!
Nah. I own Seiko, Citizen, San Martin, Baltany, Certina, Helm, Tissot, etc. If I like the watch, I buy the watch. I care not if it’s a mainstream brand, microbrand, homage, clomage, whatever. I just enjoy the watches.
I dont mind a homage. I do appreciate the originals and their history, but some of those I can't get bc of price. Some of the homages have better specs and that is important to me. In the grand scheme of things NO-one really cares what's on your wrist, but you, and maybe other snobby enthusiasts. Nowadays, people care more about what generation your Apple watch is....and to me that's not a watch. Once again, I don't judge people based on what they have on their wrist. Great video and conversation.
I wouldn't buy a homage to fool anyone, nor as a substitute for the real thing (because it will never be). But sometimes I just like the look of a watch but not enough to pay $5k+ for it. To me, a watch enthusiast should not feel forced to drop a month's salary just because they want - for example - a thin black and gilt skin diver with a red pip on the bezel, or a salmon dial bi-compax chronograph. Or a black-on-black diver with crown guards and a 3-link bracelet.
Also, I will never again buy a luxury watch before buying a good clomage of it first. Not just to try out the style, but to set the benchmark. When I do try on the original, it ought to feel a lot better on the wrist than the $300 AliX knockoff. (I have pulled back from a couple of Swiss watch purposes for this reason.)
Who cares? Get what you like. If you're buying watches for what other people think about them, you are doing it wrong. You like the design but can't or don't want to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a watch, then get a homage. If you like Invicta, rock that shit. If you think fashion brand watches are cool, by all means, you do you. It's not what I like. But if you like, I'm glad you have something you love. It's about what you like and enjoy. No one else.
Also the only people who are going to notice that your homage is not a Rolex or whatever are other watch enthusiasts. And if they are going to be snobby about it, don't let that person in your life or head. No one needs that. Watch collecting and watch culture is for everyone and we are all as different as the watches we love.
Great video and perspective. Just my 2 cents, homage to affordable time pieces are usually marketed for people that can't spend 300 or even 200 dollars on a watch. In some cases 200 dollars is something that can really break the bank for some people specially for Asian markets in which this cheap homages are originally intended to cater.
Exactly, he is not taking into account, how AliExpress is not just catered towards the western people. There are many people globally who could never in their lifetime, afford a piece for a "couple hundreds of dollars" when it's literally the wage paid per month. So, when a company offers a way better watch (specs wise) and look the same as the watch they can never buy, it's gonna be super tempting.
I feel like some homages are worth bought, especially those that resembles vintage designs that almost no one can get a hand on without forking over a fortune when it's never worth that much when it was even brand new.
And the irony is, it's not all the time that the big brands such as Rolex are releasing original designs instead of copying other work. They did took inspirations from blancpain as well.
I ain't paying a fortune for the history, I pay for a watch as a tool, and if it looks good and has better specs, it's worth buying to me. The only part I agree with is the new brands creating original designs. Its the only exception for me in terms of paying more for less specs. Just for the originality of the design. History is history
I love wearing a watch, but I can be honest with myself that I'll probably never be in a place to buy a Daytona. And say to myself, what's my ceiling at what I'd pay. So I think I'm ok with a homage sitting next to a CW, Longines, and a Tudor.
What I think: never buy clonage, never buy replica, if Tsuyosa is a homage then yes, buy homages, but I would categorize tsuyosa as an original design.
If I like the look of a watch that is a homage to any degree, I'm not going to make a purchasing decision based on what anyone else thinks. I could care less, actually. Unless, of course, you want to pay for it. Then of course you might have an opinion I would value. If you choose to spend $10k+ on a Rolex Date Just, more power to you. I'll keep the difference in my pocket and buy a $200 homage.
That's fair enough mate. Everyone should do what makes them happy :)
I personally just want to see as much support for the proper microbrands as possible
IMHO I think in our world things like cars, clothing, watches, and pretty much everything we consume, use, wear etc draws design inspiration from something else… very few things are UNIQUE anymore. If a company can create any item better or just as good as its competitors than people will buy it. “Wear what you like!” ✌🏻
I agree we need to support microbrands first, I have a list of must haves from all the microbrands I follow
I appreciate the design and hard work that goes in to a top class Swiss watch, I don't appreciate a watch for it's monetary value. I could take a few years saving up and buy an Omega moon watch. But I couldn't walk around with something worth twice the value of my car on my wrist. The risk and the worry would be too great...
So I bought a Pagani Design homage/clone for £70. It is just as pretty. 99% of people couldn't tell them apart and 99% of people wouldn't recognise or value the Omega.
However, the Pagani clone gives me pleasure. So I will stick with that and all the other budget watches in my collection.
With a total value considerably less than a steel, no date, Submariner.
I am a microbrand fan, I like that Zelos owner answers messages, I have 2 of those. Here is my 2 cents on the matter: Probably Casio sold moast clomages with the Fakejust Tiffany blue and Seiko Tank even has the stone on the crown but somehow history saves them from criticism. Rene Lacoste made the polo shirt, is Ralph Lauren a clone to be avoided? On fashion items everyone can spend their money how they want. 1/1 homages make sense for historic watches or very expensive ones and Submariner and Panda are just free for all at this time to be honest
Great video with good points. I think the "originality thing" is purely subjective . I for one don't care that much. I get it, it's nice to have a dial that says SEIKO or Hamilton or whatever. I have SEIKO'S , orient's, etc and even a rolex. I have a couple of casio's. But i also do homages. In the end of the day i prefer the watches i wear daily at work and comute to be under 300$ so it don't feel like a disaster if i break one. So with a homage you get an awesome design you can use everyday carefree. Another point you didn't mension is that with a homage you can get a design basically non existent anymore. I'll get a hruodland f018 in the next sale. It is a beautifull watch copying the longines majetek from 1935. Even the longines reissue is very different from the original. They added crown guards to the case and they changed the handset from the beautifull cathedral hands the original had. The hruodland is a 1:1 copy from the original and the only one you can get with this design.
The Tissor PRX quartz goes for like 730 USD here where I live and the Pagani Design "PRX" for 50 USD.
Firstly let me say thank you for this video, i totally agree and understand what you are saying, as a new collector it justifies how and why i buy watches for my collection, it all comes down to what you like, and not how much you spend, the watch world has gone absolutely crazy, in my opinion it's all about buying what you can, and not what you can't just for the hell of it, thank you once again for your expertise and honesty.
Find out what you like, buy it, and enjoy it 🙏 thanks for watching my friend. Hope all is well
A waiting list for a micro brand!!!!! So ridiculous.....
A majority of the watches being homaged are 40+ years old and any design patents have expired. The ENTIRE purpose of a patent is to incentivize the creation of a design/invention etc (depending on the patent type) into the market and protect the originator by protecting them a fixed period time to make money without competition. This is done so that after that time society benefits from CHEAP “knock offs”. Take things like a refrigerator, the combustion engine, the watch. All these things benefit society only if they are cheap. We must encourage homage or clomage watch manufacturing of watches whose patents have run out. It is available to anyone. Build a good and as cheaply as possible. There is more competition now in AliExpress watches than there is in the “real” watch market.
The Kuoe is not a knock-off! IMO they have their own character. It’s actually because of you that I ended up with my navy blue Old Smith 002. And also because of one of your videos that I put a Studio Underd0g in my shopping cart and never bought it because I’m going to hold out for what I really want which is an Avocado/Guacamole. AND/OR the new limited edition Kuoe coming out. AND/OR the limited Beacroft (your fault again….) Cheers! Love your videos!
Homage value is insane, i have mix of everything, but would defo buy originals if i could afford, but i do love my Homages 😁
Careful, this is how watch snobbery trickles in. You’re relatively new to watches (2020?) you’re treading into gatekeeping territory. Homage watches and clones have their place. They have always been a thing. Buy and enjoy what you want should be the credo not ‘guiding’ people to snob personal fancies like Orient is better…etc.
Clones absolutely do not hate a place. They're illegal. I'm allowed to share my opinion like you share yours. You're completely confusing the word 'snob'. That would indicate that I'm against affordable watches, which isn't the case. I celebrate budget watches! I just don't like copycats. That's not snobbery, it's personal taste.
This has definitely given me food for thought. I have a couple of homage watches, I bought them because I like the look and style but obviously couldn't afford the real thing.
After I got them I went a bit mad looking at every homage watch going but didn't get another because I realised I was bored staring at them. Just the same watches over and over with different brand names on.
So I think yes, originality and history is important to me.
I have huge respect for micro brands, doing their own thing and creating some awesome pieces.
Homage watches definitely have a place in the watch collecting world so I totally respect anyone who buys and collects them. People should just buy and wear whatever they like.
Great video as always Kieron, thanks mate 👍
You are forgetting that it’s about more than design. Lots of those brands like San Martin actually make their own watches in their own factories. Most micros might design but then need San Martin or other Chinese factories to make the bloody thing. If these micros are so awesome then build the watches themselves. Without those Chinese brands and factories there is no microbrand market. Half those Chinese factories also make parts for major Swiss brands too!!
I appreciate that. One could argue that's only the case because of how cheap labour is in China... But it is what it is.
I'll stress again, don't hate them. They have a place! But, I like to support originality.
Thanks for watching
@@TopTierTicker agree on the cheap labour - but if that is an issue for people then essentially stick to a few high end Japanese only watches. It’s a non argument this homage stuff - it’s it’s legal it’s legal. Also what’s better (or worse) to copy a design but build and have the skills to build the whole watch in-house - or design something yourself and then have other people build the whole thing because you are clueless as to how to and haven’t the ability to do it.
I like design yea. But also like craftsmanship and engineering.
As a guitar player and small collector, I'd say that is a world where the opposite occurs. A lot of people nowadays is prefering to pay for a 500 usd schecter, or a 350 usd Harley Benton, than pay for a 3.000 usd Gibson, wich would be 10 or 20% better. There will be always the hype about the logo, but you know why are you buying it. The argument you showed sounds like "have pity on Rolex, they took lots of time to develop that design, please, pay overprice!"
Clearly this is a matter of affordability for most consumers.
They like the design but can’t afford the original. Various reasons why people buy their watches, some buy for their designs, others buy for their construction and build quality. And then you have the few who wants the best of both worlds but at an affordable price.
Therefore homages cater to that demographic, and as such should not really be compared to the original other than highlighting any differences. People who seek out homages will know it’s a copy design. It’s blatantly obvious. And that’s fine for them. They just want to know if the build quality is good, uses a good movement etc.
I think homages is a category in itself and should be compared to other homages created by competing companies in the same field.
So many of the "big name" watches look like each other, how can anyone claim that they are original? A Rolex Daytona looks a lot like the Omega Speedmaster, with only a subtle change in font, indices, pushers, etc. Someone who is not a watch enthusiast wouldn't be able to tell the difference from a meter away. Also, $300 to one person is a lot of money, while to another is just a drop in the bucket...let alone $10,000. Homages are not counterfeit watches, they are perfectly legal. Wear what you like and can afford!
A speedmaster looks like a daytona? I think you need a trip to the opticians my friend
Great video on a divisive topic. I have a few homage watches too after discovering AliExpress a few years back.
I come from humble beginnings so the concept of luxury anything wasn't really on my radar when I was younger. Now I'm older and in a better place financially, I can afford nicer things. The issue I have though is I can't seem to bring myself to drop ££££'s on a watch irrespective of brand, horological significance etc because to me, they don't offer value for money when I can get the same (or better) specifications for a fraction of the cost.
I guess I can't resist a great value proposition.
The Pagani is arguably better than the PRX because the second hand hits the markers😂
My San Martin homage the SN0123G, a homage of the Benrus Type 1 that has not been made since 1980, and was never available for purchase but US military issue only.
There are at least 6 different companies offering homages of this watch from around $100 to $1,500 including one who purchased the Benrus name but none are made like the original watch with its one piece case. All the homages have screw in case backs. I find the San Martin to have the best value overall.
The Baltany is not a 1 for 1 copy. The size of the case is different, VC has printed Arabic’s and Baltany does not, and the hand set is different as well. Also you can get the Baltany without the sub-second as well as a salmon color. It is obviously close to the VC, about as close as you can without a 1 for 1 but it is not a clone. Also it is what 40k cheaper?
Excellent discussion points. I think a more important reason (and you touched on it) is availability. I would love a Rolex Datejust or sub and can cover the expense. However, the waitlist for either one is at least 2 years, and I live in a major metropolitan area (Chicago). I've discovered a Chinese clomage with decent specs scratches the itch, at least until the day after never when I can buy one at an AD. Keep up the good work!
Very good and valid points, I agree with you 💯.
As an average watch collector, I live by these rules.
1. Buy what you like
2. Buy what you can afford
3. Understand that watches are generally not an investment
4. Make sure wife approves 😅
By design, a watch tells the time. But remember that each watch also tells a story.
Its true value is not based on how much you paid for it. It is valuable because of the memories you've had while wearing it.
In the end, it does not matter if you are wearing a cheap knockoff, a clomage/ homage or ultra rare luxury watch. As long as you enjoy the watch, it is all that matters.
Really good video. I have struggled with the homage issue for a while now. I really want a Tudor Black Bay but can’t afford it and was tempted to but the San Martin knockoff. Ultimately, I spent a $300 more and go a Lorier Neptune. I am glad I did as it has obvious design features from several name brand divers but is ultimately its own thing
That's exactly what I like to hear. You made an excellent decision going with the neptune IMO. Like you say, gives the vibes of the BB, but with its own story to tell. Enjoy it with good health my friend 🙏
I do value originality and value for money. I don‘t give a sh.t on brand or model history. Yes, many clomage watches are boring as hell. But so are most of the original luxury models which are only repeating themselves over and over. So there is a white iteration of the Speedmaster now. How uninspired is that?! It took how many years to come up with this idea? That‘s why I love microbrands.
I believe I am enjoying both worlds. I love and appreciate brands with rich history and originality- and I really do enjoy really good specs for not a lot of money.. BTW, I try and find the more special and unique “homages”. They are out there
people will ALWAYS criticize whatever you say! cause let's face it, a lot of them are dumb and annoying. so stand up by your opinions dude. don't be sorry!
I buy homage watches to try out the look and feel before spending money on the real deal, so the original wins in the end if I decide I still want one. For example, I bought an Omega Seamaster homage, wore it a couple weeks and then bought an Omega Seamaster 300. I bought a Speedmaster homage and then bought an Omega Speedmaster. I bought a Cronos sub homage but can't bring myself to pay above retail for a Rolex Submariner even though I like the design. So I use the Cronos as a beater. It has great specs and can take some punishment. But just as you said, I do support the microbrands such as Zelos, Phoibos, MMI, Wicked Watch, Aquatico, Helm, Long Island and others and love corresponding with their owners who are true watch enthusiasts and strive for their own unique identity.
Same with me. I use homage watches as a trial preiod. Sometimes I find out that I do not like the overall look of the watch, so the 'money lost' feeling is not so painful.
i don't care if you like homage or not , i hate invicta (what they are doing right now with their watches) but i found a guy who finds them appealing , i mean he has his reasons to like , i don't agree to that , but that is what he likes and that's what homage is, personally i wouldn't buy a homage intentionally , because the real watches are supposed to be a milestone in your life and i don't want to kill the dopamine hit by buying a homage . People are at different stages of their life and we shouldn't judge them because they made different choices, some people want to live an amazing life, by not incrementing their monetary outcome and still be able to enjoy watches that they would like to . I don't care , buy a DW , just make sure you have a reason behind it , it might as well be , "I like the design" , it is actually better than the impulsive buys that i have done when i bought a watch that was hyped by the influencers.
That islander is nice! I was looking at one on eBay
Great watch mate. Absolutely love mine to death
@@TopTierTicker I’ve checked and they are sold out but I’ll keep looking!
Buy what you like. Don't listen to people trying to attach rules. Most watches are homages in one way or another.
I agree. But it's fun talking about these things :)
I must agree, i generally dont like "homage" watches, when they look near identical to another brand, i want my watch to stand out with its own story and unique design, it feels way better to have something that is its own thing than a one for one copy of a rolex or seiko and what not, even if the specs are good, i would rather a unique watch woth lower specs than a copy with great specs.
Before discussing homages, it's good to understand that homages fall into 2 categories, namely creative homages and lazy homages, most but not all homages made in China are lazy homages, but are you sure that the Tissot Prx you mentioned is not a homage to the Rolex quartz Gerald Genta?
Cretif homage is a homage that takes several main elements, it doesn't have to be a copy of the design but can also imitate the idea, so here even Submarer imitates the Blancpain 50 fattoms in terms of the application of the rotating bezzel, and the Tissot Prx which even from Switzerland is a lazy homage to Rolex Quartx Gerald Genta.
So, what about San Martin Titanium? San Martin also makes many different designs of the Rolex Submarine, there is nothing wrong with homage as long as it is not a fake Rolex or other fake brand, let each person feel and choose their own watch.
btw, i was subscribe this chanel and always love the video from this chanel.
I say the cheaper the better the specs, will make the bigger brands work harder. All good for us, the consumer.
Not necessarily. It could encourage less and less originality.
I think the ability to get a great design & great specs watch for around the £200-£250 mark has kept the watch hobby /industry alive in a era where the smart watch is on the march. It allows people to get the different designs theyve always liked for affordable money. The microbrands are often 3 times more money than an ali express watch for same specs & then there's a few Seiko's / citizens / bulovas with poorer specs & designs for double or triple the money & then that's pretty much it really.
Get yourself of Ali Express 💪
Homege watches give a choice for buyers who do like the luxury watches design but can't afford the originals , and most of them are good value for its price .
If you like the watch why should you care. It’s not what you think about other persons wearing watches you would not wear.
If it’s about “how you feel”, then admit there are many many people who prefer to wear homages than not. Me for one.
Homage watches are brilliant! You won't get robbed or stabbed for wearing one!
Well said! I have been collecting for little over a year now. I must admit, at the beginning I got excited and bought two homages...the pagani speedtimer and the pagani omega seamaster 300. These are two watches that I love...but it is the originals I love, not the clonemages. I never feel really joyful when I wear them, so I dont. Eventhough they look and feel great on my wrist. I started venturing into brands like Spinnaker and looking for watches that were unique and had thier own stories and history, at reasonable prices, even if that means a quartz watch or two. For example, I grew tired of homages to the rolex submariner, rather quickly, but eventually i bought the Citizen "orca" blue and white diver, I absolutley love that watch and the design. I also purchased the Bulova "jet timer"..original design, a beautiful sweeping seconds hand, both these watches are quartz, but they are mine, they have their own histories and more importantly they spark that joy that brought me to the hobby in the first place. But like you said, I am not against "homages", I just think they should be enjoyed with moderation. I do believe they have a place in our hobby, but again, in moderation, preferably "homages" instead of "clonemages". For example i am wearing my blue fumay dial, "Tsuyosa"...which to me, may be inspired from the OP, but not enough were I feel like a fraud. I LOVE the Tsuyosa, I enjoy wearing it, but I never feel like I am wearing a Rolex or trying to pass it off as such. Lets face it, there are so many quality, interesting, original pieces, without going the clone route...PRX (which I Own and love), and other Tissot watches like the "chemin de toureles" (which I also own) pluse of course casio, and other micro brands that, like you said, really move this hobby forward. Great video!
This is a legal argument. Frankly what is allowed by law. Homages, clomages are allowed by law. If you are trying to get clomages banned, then please, give yourself an uppercut. They are not fakes. They tell you who they are, and you saying "if you were to change the logo and they looked exactly the same" i.e...become fakes..is rather disingenus.
Do you know how many guitar companies are out there with a fender strat body, pickup configuration, and a minor change to the headstock?
If companies can do better for much much less, if capitalism is finally working for the consumer for once, just once... then lets celebrate this.
I'm not trying to get anything banned 😂 did you not watch the video?
I do like chinese homages. If you dont like, just dont by, and be happy!
I also love collecting Chinese homages, you can't never go wrong with the quality, and they are affordable.
Let's get real here, all watches do is tell the time. Any watch can do that with great accuracy these days. A Rolex/Omega/Patek Phillipe/ is all about status rather than just being a watch. If you must have a particular brand and can afford it, then go for it. I have half a dozen homage watches of different styles and colours. I wear them like costume jewellery. I have no concerns regarding potential theft or damage during wear. I don't have to think about £1000+ servicing, I can just replace the movement for £20 or in the absolute 'worst case' scenario throw it away and buy a new one
If a gallon of milk wasn't like $35 in the US right now, I'd consider pricier timepieces. But if I'm forced to downgrade my food spending, watches are going to run a distant 4th place 😂😂
Is that seriously the cost of milk in the US? Damn you guys have it tough
I 100 percent agree. I know there are microbrand cash grabs out there but many of these young watchmakers are really into the design aspects and details and the love of watchmaking. And this should be respected.
Absolutely!
If I get a homage watch then I'm looking for that shape. I'm not looking for a different look. The Studio Underd0g is a prime example. Why would you spend £300 more for a watch which is exactly the same?
I couldn't agree more! I like several homage watches (as per your definition) but not clones. If it "scratches the itch" for other people, no problem but for me it wouldn't do anything, it would feel like trying to cheat myself. So if I can't afford the real deal than so be it.
Now, you think the PRX clone is mind boggling? What about the skimei that's is a 10 dollar clone of a 25 dollar Casio? If 15 dollars makes a difference in your life you should not be spending 10 on a watch
Those Skmei watches are just insane 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The word has been mis-appropriated. Before Ali clomages were a thing it meant (as you said) a watch giving a nod to another in "some" of its styling, not a copy and paste job which seems to have become the norm. I own several clomages but I don't kid myself they measure up in any way to the luxury watches they copy. Lots of RUclipsrs have put a halo around some of the Ali brands. Given the number of freebies handed out I'm not surprised. Then again some more upmarket brands play the same game using RUclipsrs with plus 100K subs. I agree the Orient is the better watch. It isn't just Ali brands that offer bargains either. I've just found a discontinued watch from a mainstream brand. High spec, RRP over £1200 for £320. More of a deal any day than buying an Ali. Caveat Emptor!!
Sometimes you can and are willing to spend 10K in a Rolex, or any Big name watch for that matter, but can't because they treat you like garbage, so yes Homages/Clomages or whatever you said are an easy winner, at least they appreciate you as a customer. So until those big brand names start treating their customers with respect, Homages will grow in popularity. So sorry but not sorry, don't care if you dislike homage watches, they are the way to go.
Buddy, I do agree with you: Originality is what really matters. It is a key driving force of the industry.
I do love my micro brands original watches: my Selten meteorite blue watch, the Atowak, the Scurfa Treasure Seeker yellow and my Yema 300m black and orange. They twist necks calling the attention of ao many people.
I do also loooove my Hublots hahaha oops.
Back to the topic. A pure copy does not really bring joy imho. And I respect those who like them. Cheers!
Great Information mate
People can do anything they want with their money as long as they don't hurt anyone. But I would prefer a Seiko, citizen or another brand rather than wearing a copy of an expensive brand...just my opinion. For example, the Seiko speedtimer is clearly inspired in the Daytona but it isn't a homage or a copy.
Also, instead of having 20 copies, at least getting 4 very good ones for the same price.... instant gratification is not worth it. But yes, it takes some mistakes to understand that.
Agreed on all points.
💯
My watch collecting pursuit does not extend to 'supporting' any brand, including microbrands. It is entirely up to the brand to satisfy me if they desire my custom. If it is a homage, so be it, I care nothing about the corporate welfare of companies and any of their perverse sense of entitlement.
I looking for a while for a Cartier Tank like watch,but i not consider any Aliexpress brand,i rather wait until i have a cash for a Lip T18 because it comes with a history of the T18 and the history of Lip itself.Sometimes the patience for something gives you more than a good price.
Weak sauce definition. This video serves to protect the homage other brands like Cartier, Rolex, Seiko, etc. they all homage from other brands. It’s only a matter of scale or as I’ve referred to, a spectrum. Clomage, 1:1…artfully sidestep the reality that if any watch is actually viewed from a consistent definition of 1:1 for instance…everything about the copy must be EXACTLY the same including using the name of the company being “clomaged”…thus entering the fake and illegal category. Should Seiko be held liable for their Daytona clomage? Some may say “there are significant differences.” That’s a subjective claim not objective. Down into the rabbit hole goes that discussion.
The reality, unless it s a fake (using the name of the manufacturer or violates patent law) it’s an homage and frankly get over yourself…because only oneself is responsible for the using subjective 1:1 or ‘Clomage’ term.
This video vainly tries to make up for bad definitions and subsequent faulty applications.
You've missed the point. I couldn't give a monkeys about protecting Rolex, omega etc.
I just want the Microbrands who are putting in hard work, taking the industry forward and putting out original designs to win.
@@TopTierTickerI don’t think so. You’ve ignored the claim I made that ALL watches are essentially homages of varying degrees with the exception of fraudulent models. Theres no salvation of your claim by asserting that microbrands, who use a variety of ‘clomage’ characteristics, generate their forward looking watches. They use other design cues just like Rolex, Seiko, and so on. For examples how many microbrands utilize the submariner design or a speedmaster/daytona look or dive watch timing bezels, or specific style of handsets…it never ends.
The entirety of complaints for any homage IS protection of “originality” often claimed as exclusive usually larger brands. You’ll note I included Seiko in the initial post…not just the big luxury brands. Homage is includes all watches. The homage follow the leader starts with some assumptions…For example, why is it that all watches turn ‘clockwise?’ Why don’t we say that all wrist watches are a clomage of the first wristwatch by some claim is Breget’s doing? Aren’t most automatic movements a clomage of the first? Why not refer to all subsequent auto movements in the same manner.
You’re cherry picking and ending up with all the pits.
Did you not watch the video?
True homage watches, that take inspiration, with their own twist, are beautiful.
This is the classic defence I ALWAYS hear for clomage watches.... 'well everything is inspired by something else. Something always came first. Every watch is a homage to the first ever watch'... It's a flawed boring argument.
Watches that are 1 for 1 copies of another model are not the same as a true homage. We should support originality. It's not difficult to change a few things and try to do something different. But they don't, because it won't make them as much money.
@@TopTierTicker explain the flaw? I’ve explained my rationale for not just the look of a watch but the movements being used and in some cases subsumed by other companies as their own.
1 to 1 in all circumstances means exact…materials, design, finishing, name…exact. Which models are you referring to that are 1 to 1 or exact? Playing loose with definitions to fit a narrative is an argument of convenience not based on objective standards.
Waiting for examples of 1:1 watches according to an objective use of the term 1:1.
Saying something is flawed is a far cry from at least trying to prove that it is flawed.
@@TopTierTickerMaybe talking about and showing images of VC Rolex and Omega homages confused the video a bit because those brand's original desings became conflated with microbrands' original designs and it all sounded like part of the same argument. In terms of affordable and microbrand watch homages, its not like theyre not benefitting. The only reason Tissot can offer the prx for 'just' 2-300 ish more than the clomage is because its made in China - probably by the same factory that's making the clomage 😊. And in the case of Studio Underdog and all the other micros that have appeared since about 2015 - none of them could have existed 10 years ago; they only exist now because of Chinese manufacturing.
BTW - Studio Underdog is really worth taking note of here, the guy running SU is a true entrepreneur. Proxima ripped off his watermelon design. Did he complain? No! He noticed that Proxima made an avocado version, so he ripped off Proxima and made his own avocado version - he's actually made a youtube video about it.
A rather relevant video for me as I just received my Baltany 1926 oyster tribute in the post today. As the name suggests, it's a 'tribute' to the first water proof watch, the Rolex 1926 oyster. The design is very heavily inspired so Baltany can claim no points for originality, but I do feel that they've stayed true to the idea of what an 'homage' watch should be: a nod of respect towards a historical model that the average person is unlikely to find let alone be able to afford. It neither feels like it's trying to pass itself off as a desired luxury piece or lazily stealing a another design and passing it off as original. It gives most of us the chance to own a piece of watch history, although for me personally I just really liked the design and would've bought it regardless.
I think the majority of the Baltany catalogue is actually pretty decent. I'd consider them a true homage. There's some crap too obviously, but they seem to throw their own little spice on them too
I have a Tisell Explorer 36. It doesn't even have an original name. It's pretty much an Explorer copy, except for the clasp, which copies the one from the Submariner (glide lock). And until recently it was my best watch.
When I'm in my minimalist mood, it's great, but it gradually started to feel more and more boring. Mostly though, it's because the Explorer is mostly boring. Now, if it had a Datejust homage, with a coloured sumburst dial, would that be different? I do think so. But I'm a dial freak.
Instead, I went for a Seiko Alpinist. My favourite variant was discontinued and almost sold out, so why not. It's ornate, but not gaudy. If I find a good bracelet for it and if I learn to live with the thickness, I will never need a minimalist versatile Rolex-style watch. We'll see. But, despite no regrets, I'm done buying copies.
Unless I decide I can't live without a Panerai-style watch. I'll definitely want the flip-lock crown.
'Surely it's better to have the real deal than a copy.' I agree, if everybody thought that we wouldn't have fake watches, let alone homages but hey ho. Human nature.
My 100 USD Seiko 5 > My 100 USD Bronze Boderry Voyager. Of course it has way better specs and I love it's legibility, but it's just doesn't feel right. Maybe no chemistry between us.
Okay, so look at a current scenario. Take the Omega X Swatch MoonSwatch, and put it up against the Pagani Designs PD-1701 series or the Alpha Chronograph (brought them up as you did have them and mention them in your video). There's a heck of a large differance between these peices and the original - I mean miles big. As far as I'm concerned after this Omega-Swatch "colab", I feel Swatch needs a darn good swatting (with a fly swatter, not the swat team) for really ripping people off (though from a business sense, it proving to be quite profitable....For how long though, hard to say). In their past I might not have minded adding a swatch to my collection, but no way will I ever consider a Swatch of any kind these days. I feel sorry for anyone that has been or will be suckered into the purchase of a Moonswatch.
Now the Pagani Designs def is not a 1-1 clone of the original Speedmaster - quartz movement, hour reading as opposed to an hour counter for the crono, option to have a day display or not, and defiantly detailed out much differently. It's a darn good homage in my book - certainly is no outright clone (Omega X Swatch Moonswatch is closer to being a clone). I'm glad they aren't trying to pretend to be Omega, yet Pagani Designs seem to be doing everything they can to deliver a quality watch (far more so then Swatch).
The Alpha, yea, I more see your point because it's a more direct "clone" of the original Speedmaster/Moonwatch, esp with it's mechanical movement. But again there are many details are different.
Anyways, I don't have any problems with homages no matter how close they can be to looking like an outright clone - as long as they aren't messing about with history nor are they trying to pretend to be the real thing. I do have problem when brands attempt to homage more pedestrian brands though - like you, just wait a little bit if you want a Casio Dive watch (the MDV). Or a Seiko Turtle... Etc etc. There shouldn't be any homages to these as they are easily acquirable (so why not own a piece of real history).
I have a perfectly normal size penis so have no need to flex, give me value for money but they aren't mutually exclusive, I love my Proxima as much as my Zodiac.
I totally agree with you, although I'm cheating. I'm a vintage watch guy and I like originality, but I have a Steeldive with a sterile dial in my collection and currently on my wrist.
I don’t have any issues with a “Homage” pretty much everything we use in our world draws design inspiration from something else. Very few things are UNIQUE. If a brand can create an affordable alternative that is good or better then people will buy it. ✌🏻
Thanks for sharing your point of view 🙏
I think 'clomages' are okay as long as you buy them because your really want to try the design but cannot afford it. I have a San Martin Aqua Terra and Pagani's Ranger homages. I bought them because of the design. I really like the originals, but can't afford them now. I know they don't give actual wearing experience, but they give me the style I wanted. I can totally say that I will buy the originals as soon as I can (not because homages are 'bad' or 'unethical', but simply because I wanted the originals in the first place, and that was what led me to buy the homages).
When you buy homages for the specs only you are risking to get into a never-ending 'value for many' limbo. I just think a collection full of clones only is a bit boring.
At the end of the day, one can collect whatever they want and if you truly like homages, no one's opinion should bother you.
History means nothing to me honesty speaking. I would choose homages all day long. Watches to me is for design I like and reliability it provides. I will wear what makes me happy. Honestly speaking my orient bambino rarely gets wrist time after purchasing some homages. Bambino is an incredible watch but looks so meh when comparing to a sapphire crystal opponent on much lesser price. Btw I'm gonna get the Proxima watermelon whenever I feel like. That looks cracking with same movement, no hassle of wait list and so on 😊
Sorry but in no universe is the tsuyosa a copy
My friend, it's almost a 1 for 1 with a Rolex OP dial.
Homage watches, I get. Rolex won't sell me a steel submariner, never, ever! I draw the line at Fakes. There is no excuse for those.
I like the buy what you like comment at the end. I’ve enjoyed both sides of the coin. I’ve Owned everything from omega to parnis. Right now I’m enjoying Casio, Dan Henry and wolbrook. I really enjoy this hobby.
Good for you my man! I hope you enjoy it for many years to come too 🙏 thanks for watching
@@TopTierTicker respect!! Keep these great videos coming brother!!!
My case with homages (clomages) is more to experience designs that i can no longer experience, I essentially got into the hobby in 2021, and some of my favourite models are the Mod seamaster, the 5 digit sub,the VC 1921, the 1016 explorer,vintage Smith references, aka watches that are no longer with us, too delicate to wear or are SO far out price wise that, unless i won the lottery, I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing, i still haven’t pulled the trigger on any, a Certina filled the gap of the seamaster, a vintage timex the VC, I’m looking for my explorer/smith option with micro military pieces ( the Kuoe looks amazing, but for some reason when i go to the site, to me it lack’s soul ), i might pull the trigger with the 5 digit sub clomage, as there’s nothing on the affordable market that gives me those vibes, btw if any lf you guys know of any 5 digit sub homages and/or military ones please reply to the comment, but in conclusion to me if the itch cannot be scratched by other watches, and the reference is no longer with us full speed ahead with clomages
I think homage watch are a good way for people like without budget for any original,but for buying a lot of homage watch i'm little disapointed about quality and durability and also accuracy, this kind of watch use offen nh35 movment not vey precise,the metal strap alway failled after intense use...so buying a lot of this watch i think it's better buy a better brand,why not a good tissot o eterna or any other brand with better durability,it's just my user experience.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts 🙏
I totally align with your opinion .
After buying clomages at first on my watch journey I soon realised that I didn't connect with clomage watches .
That ultimately for me came from buying the type of watches you mentioned in this video .
I wasted good money and even if you think they are a bargains at the time , they aren't in my humble opinion. That money i could of put towards something I'd enjoy in the long run .
Great video as always .
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Great insight. Cheers 🙏
after invention of quartz watches all Swiss-made brands got trouble, cuz u get better (more functional and accurate) watches for 1/100 of price. therefore they create an illusion. watches does not tell the time, they tell the class, status. they keep production level low and price level high. I don't want pay money for "history, status, etc etc", I want to pay money for watch itself.
Just got my Venezianico Nereide. Gorgios! Want luxury? Pay just a little extra.
While I agree, I think the insane prices we are seeing is what driving people to look into homage s, by any means if you have the money buy whatever you want but for lots of people even 200$ is a lot. Brands like casio have almost doubled in price, and as you know this hobby is addicting so one is never enough. Now imagine how many homages you can buy nowadays for sometimes less than 40$. I mean if you are at a point of paying 200$+ for an homage then sorry I don't see the value here. But having lets say 90% of the look and feel for a fraction of the price fills a lot in the hearts of people. And also you don't give a shit if you lost it or it got stolen 😂
Are you sure the Orient mako is an original design? Asking because I’m not sure. Original design is a slippery slope but I understand and agree with your overall thoughts
As original as a modern dive watch can be that follows the traditional look, yes. It's not a clomage if that's what you mean
I have 2 homage watches, a cadisen C8220 I think and a PD 1701 (moon watch) they are ok for the price but I wouldn’t buy anymore.. my tastes have got better 😂
You nailed it from my point of view. For me it is, and has always been about investing in originality. I don't own a Seiko or Citizen or Bulova. It is more interesting and more important to me that I purchase from microbrands. T makes for a more diverse collection and better stories about each piece.
100% mate. I like that term 'investing in originality'. Perfectly summed up
I will buy Baltany. Simply because I disgust a dirty game os Rolex; they converted their AD into some kind of museums. No Model available.
This was very well said. Your going to get alot of people mad Im sure with this video, but I think you articulated your point perfect and I agree 100 percent.
I don't mind upsetting some people if it needs to be said. Sharing how I actually feel is important to me
Many thanks. Beautiful honest humbled episode.
You may call it "copage " watches, so what ?? For how long we have to service the greedy appetite of the big brands for more than a hundred years ,it is more than enough. Let them make new things so no one can copy them.
With huge appreciation
Nizar
I have mixed feelings. I'd rather have those Chinese companies put their skill in original watches however I do buy homage sometimes. For example I love fluted bezels but pretty much the only option is a Rolex or a homage. I do always make sure to pick a homage which is not identical. For example I got a date just homage with a lightblue sunburst dial and a seiko homage with a pearl dial. I wouldn't want anyone to mistake my watch for something it's not
Sanda, Courgeut and Tandorio...great idea at the time purchases. I got rid of all of then within a week. I really hope I have learned now. Great video
You don't get to define what a homage watch is. You also don't get to decide what motive anyone else needs to wear an SD1953 from Steeldive, to name a 'random' example. The Submariner is what I want, the Steeldive is what I can afford. If you put 'Rolex' on the dial instead of 'Steeldive' would most people be fooled? Absolutely, and this is a testament to how good the Steeldive looks at 1/200th the price. I am not embarassed to wear a clone, I don't wear a fake, I do wear a knock-off but I am fine with that. Yours is an arrogant position, an elitist one. I Absent becoming a millionaire, the Aliexpress watches are as close as I am ever going to get to wearing just beautiful watches.
I'm more than allowed to share what my opinion is regarding homage watches, just like you've done.
Elitest isn't the correct term to use here. It's nothing to do with cost. I'm certainly not a wealthy man myself. It's about originality, hard work and substance. I would rather wear an original $70 casio with average specs over a $70 clomage.
@@TopTierTicker You're certainly allowed to share whatever, I wouldn't stop you even if I could. You're engaging in a straw man. And of course wear what you want. All I was responding to was your framing of the issue. Elitist is not necessarily about money, it's about presuming to know better than others what is art or beautiful or in this case a homage, and worthy of our money. You're allowed to express your opinion, and I am allowed to explain to you why you're wrong. 😄
Apologies for being flippant, that last sentence was tongue in cheek. No offense intended.