That was my experience, Vulcain have employed a payment on order policy with them, in my mind cw sellors and others in their group are at risk of folding
I wish more people shared experiences like this, and the fact that you revealed the name of the store and not just telling your story without giving out those kinds of details like alot of people do when making videos like this is very good. Stuff like this happens more often than you'd think and nobody talks about it. You having a channel and being able to reach out to hundreds of people with information like this is great because now a bunch of people wont buy from them and they will loose sales, and maybe that will make them realise their mistake and be better in the future.
Hi Kieran, that is so sad buddy. I used to be a buyer for the health service back in the day...and those kind of shenanigans would have gotten me the sack. I too have dealt with them on occasion and they do take a long time to respond but mostly they get there. I did however have a similar situation with two separate watch purchases. Both eventually got refunded after phone calls, emails and pfaffing about for weeks, without any cogent responses. Bit of a disaster and well highlighted...especially in the run up to Christmas!
Thanks for sharing this. Looks like CW Sellors are now on my shit list - and I'm unsubscribing from their emails immediately. Last time I'll ever buy from them, for sure.
this is a much simpler situation than you might realize. Your bad luck almost certainly stems from the timing of your order. European Shipping for an item as small as a watch will NEVER take 4 weeks so the ETA quoted should have been 1 - 2 weeks max. The mere fact they estimated up to 4 weeks shows me quite clearly you placed your order on the heels of CW placing a substantial order that was already closed and being processed or shipped. They either did not have the capital (or desire) to expend on an additional order for more watches so your order was effectively "backordered" to allow CW more time to process the sales required to generate enough income to place another substantial overseas inventory order which would include the watch you ordered. If they ship your watch individually it would cost the same as the direct price from germany. They can ONLY offer you a better price because they order watches "in bulk" to get significantly discounted prices. Depending on how slow their recent sales have been they may not even be financially capable of issuing a timely refund. Customer communication is key to customer satisfaction... they should have simply explained the real reason for the delay up front and give you the option to wait or cancel. I'm 99% certain my assessment of the situation is accurate as I operate a similar business and faced similar issues before.
Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I suspected something like this might have been the reason why but I didn't want to make claims that I had no proof of :)
@@TopTierTicker by the process of logical deduction I don't see any other possibility. I have quoted customers sometimes 3 month delays on orders and had no issues because the customers knew all of the potential issues up front. They should have told you the truth BEFORE they took your money. Simple as that. For this reason I too would avoid doing business with them.
That sucks. From the Laco website: "If you specify a delivery address outside the EU, the VAT will be automatically deducted during the ordering process." So that's 316 euro (390 euro minus VAT) plus 30 euro shipping for a total of 346 euro (£288). There is then VAT to pay (20 % unfortunately, not the 19 % Laco take off the price) plus 2% Customs duty once it reaches the UK, bringing the cost to you back up to around £355. CW Sellors are selling it for £331 in the sale, so not that much cheaper. Given your experience, I'd buy direct from Laco as you are now but I can see why you'd prefer to save a few quid.
I paid £312 for it from CW Sellors, I wasn't aware that Laco knocks off the VAT otherwise I would've gone direct straight away! Thanks for making me aware of this.
I have bought four watches from CW Sellors and had an excellent experience each time. On the first occasion I bought a Montblanc that wasn't in stock. I negotiated a good price, plus a free Montblanc leather strap. Watch arrived within three weeks. I had to wait quite sine time for the extra leather strap but didn't mind because it was a free cheeky sweetener. Second occasion was a G-Shock. It was in their sale but I saw it cheaper elsewhere and asked them if they'd match the price. They said no as the site I saw the watch was not a UK AD. They did offer to reduce their price further and give me a 10% discount on my next purchase. I bought the watch and it was with me next day. The third purchase was Christmas last year when I bought a Tissot seastar as a gift. The size I wanted was not in stock but I got a good discount against the same watch in smaller size. Again, delivery next day. Fourth experience was just last week. Bought a Certina (underrated brand BTW). Absolutely no problems and watch arrived the next day. I'm sorry for your experience but I can only speak for myself and I have had great service.
Good to hear! Thanks for sharing your experiences with them. It's good to have balance in a situation like this. I'm sure what happened with me is a rare occurrence.
Hi Kieron - I’m German and I travel to Aachen regularly (I know!). I’m an Aachener living in the UK and was thinking of buying precisely the same watch from a local dealer just outside of Aachen in the near future 😀. In case you don’t get anywhere, I’m happy to help you out. Hope you get sorted. M
My worst watch buying experience was ordering from Nivada Grenchen. I ordered a watch, got the order confirmation, then nothing. A few days later the model was marked out of stock on the website. I contacted their CS and they gave me a delivery date of about 20 days from the date I placed the order. That date came and went. The only other "answer" I got from their CS was a return mail which contained nothing but the e-mail I had sent them. It took them 25 days to ship a watch that supposedly had been available at the time I placed the order. Oh, and this "Swiss" brand is shipping from East Asia.
They probably found out that the watch was actually out of stock from their shipping hub after stock keeping, I experience this quite often in a different hobby BUT the difference is, the people I shop from are transparent about it and offer a refund/cancellation if I can't wait for a restock.
I had heard about issues buying from Nivada which is why I bought my superantarctic 2nd hand. I did however want to buy the flat link bracelet as the one I bought cam with a beads of rice bracelet, So I decided to buy that directly from Nivada Grenchen. After a week or so my order got as far as my local FedEx order and then nothing for about another week. I contacted Nivada who told me there was an issue and they would look into it...a few days pass and I get no response so I instead contact FedEx and they were able to tell me very quickly that the issue was due to the order being damaged and that they had already notified the seller days ago. I go back to Nivada and they confirm they can send a replacement. No problem I thought, these things happen. I wait another couple weeks and receive the replacement order, except guess what? They've shipped the wrong end links with it which don't fit my watch! I then had to contact them a 3rd time and ask them to send out the correct end links which I did finally receive, but the whole thing took about 4-6 weeks and resulted in me having to pay 2 separate import fees and get the initial one refunded. Not sure I'd ever buy from them again, and like you say, they're very proud to identify themselves as a Swiss brand yet everything is being made in Hong Kong lol.
This must be a sign! I have a Zodiac super sea wolf skin diver in my basket on the CW Sellors website! I was just browsing reviews on RUclips and stumbled on your video! Well guess I’m not buying from them anymore! 😮🤦🏽♂️
I bought two watches from them a few months back and all went well. Managed to get a deal I was happy with too. These were both in stock watches, a Hamilton and a Muhle Glashutte. I really wanted to decide between the Muhle and a Sinn 144 but they didn’t have the Sinn in stock and told me an order may take around 16 weeks! Luckily the Muhle (which was the only one they had at any branch) was the exact one I wanted. So, I think if they have what you want in stock, (they can transfer between branches as they did with mine), then you should be fine. I got a fairly chunky discount off list for both watches and it was a pleasant experience all round. From your story I’d be wary of ordering something though, which is a shame as they’re the only AD anywhere near me for a lot of the smaller brands.
Wow. Thats rotten. I’m sorry you had to go through this. Poor communication is really the worst. I hope you get your money back soon and your new watch in its way.
Kieron / btw I know what has happened and this is typical with many of these German brands. (Not the brands fault) They offer customisation and a huge catalogue, think Laco , Sinn, hanhart.. then they only work with select retailers in each region. Therefore most variants of models won’t be in stock unless it’s a customer return or ex display. There are high delivery charges that the brand charges the AD. That’s why especially if you buy a lower price watch or accessory bad AD’s will wait until they have enough orders from customers and then order everything at the same time once every few months typically. My advice is if you want a German watch buy it in Germany where you can see it face to face and then just get the VAT refund at the airport as well. Hope this advice helps and it’s what I done with my Sinn. Bought it in Europe for a cheaper price here in the Uk and then got a further 12% back on the VAT. You can literally take a same day flight on Ryanair
Had a similar experience. The team at CW were pleasant whenever I spoke to them, but after three months of waiting, I gave up. I was offered additional discounts (25% in the end) which is why I was patient. But 3 months! I suspect they stack orders to get larger discounts from the manufacturers / wholesale dealers. If they were transparent about it, I’d have waited 6 months.
I have a good experience of CW Sellors. I bought a Sinn 556 from CW sellers in 2022, I bought it from the shop that was in Leeds at that time. I had a small issue with dust on the dial, I went to CW sellors in Ashbourne to show them the watch. They sent it for repair and I had the watch back within a week , good as new. I think the online part of the business is not to the same standard as the actual shops.
Hi TTT, I'm a Bavarian and since Laco is a Bavarian Brand, I thought that I need to have a Laco in my collection, over a year ago. As you may know, when you order a watch directly from the Laco Website, you can customize your watch to your preference. I wanted to have the 42mm "Blaue Stunde" B-Dial Modell with the metal bracelet, the decorated Miota movement and some engravings. Took's not even 2 weeks to receive the watch, exactly as I ordered it from Laco. Custom made for me! The problem here is not Laco. The problem is the retailer!
I had a similar experience with an AD trying to order a Black Bay. Was told for 6 weeks it would be one more week. After finding it in stock at another AD I went to the original AD for a refund of my deposit and the watch they told me earlier that day and for the last 6 weeks wasn’t available yet was sitting in their case for purchase.
Hard to believe it can be this bad these days. Maybe buying directly from Laco is the best idea. I hope in the end you will like the watch, I have Paderborn 42 and so far together with 1963 chrono they are my only non divers that I have and like. I got it directly from Laco. Don't remember exactly how long it took, but probably around a week. And even with shipping it was 70 EUR less than buying from a local dealer.
Are you kidding me? Bad customer service? This has elements of everything from fraud to consumer protection violations to financial malpractice ...to bad customer service. Use all legal remedies at your disposal if you need to - you'll crush them.
I've shopped with them a couple of times in the past. Both a times a while ago; The first was for a Hamilton at a very large discount which was in stock, so a great deal. The second was for a Nomos which wasn't in stock but it arrived within the four week promised time. They also gave me a 15% discount, and a decent quality watch winder. So good experiences but I'm always wary of ADs with a large number of manufacturers on their books and this company has a massive portfolio of brands..
I bought a 42" Lcao Flieger from C.W.Sellors (aka Jura) two years ago, and the watch was sent within 2 weeks, which I think was within the estimate on the web site for that item.
After having a few bad experiences - I have a few rules for myself when buying watches; buy from an official AD in person, buy a brand with a big reputation / service centre. Avoid micro brands unless they have a boutique, buy second hand watches only from a very reputable business. Don’t buy from a private individual.
I bought a Montblanc from them in November 2022 which wasn't in stock. I paid a deposit and from memory, it arrived within 2 weeks with no issues. I live in Derbyshire so I picked it up in person. Unfortunately I have never managed to bond with the watch but that's not their fault.
I just purchased a Laco Aachen (gray) from Watch Gang via a wheel spin… I got it for $350 (the wheel spin price) and it was the level one item. Just sharing in case you wanted to go that route!
Hey Kieron I had a very similar experience with the same company just before Christmas last year. I ordered the 42mm Augsburg and it took about 6 - 8 weeks, if I remember correctly. I was emailing for updates and it was all quite vague. The watch did show up eventually but I sold it in the summer because it was too big. I was wearing it on my 7.5 inch wrist and thought it too big. If I’d gone for the 39mm I may still have it.
I tried to buy the same watch but on NATO from Jura (same group) on 6th September. Same experience so on 8th October I requested a refund and cancellation and got email confirmation of such. I wanted the watch for mid October trip so Jura missed chance. On seeing your video I checked my account and realised I had not actually had the refund. So I phoned this afternoon and now have email saying the amount owing has been refunded. Very pleasant lady on call apologised and blamed IT issue. Hopefully, the money will eventually come through. I’ll remember to check this time. I have subsequently got the watch and it’s great (Amazon £288 so slightly more than Jura). Thanks for your video on this as it made me check my account.
I haven't bought a watch from CW Sellors or from Laco (though the exact watch you've ordered and not received is one that I personally have thought of purchasing myself) but I have ordered a watch from First Class Watches (the other AD listed in the video). They were great. I had to return a watch and they were absolutely fantastic.
You’d be surprise how patient customers are if you just give them an update. Them not reaching out to you to update is cowardly. You handle it how I would’ve. Hope you get your watch!
I have made two purchases in the past and have not had any issues. However, after hearing your experience, i would be hesitant to deal with them again.
The same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago from Italy, and I was about to request a refund. I think there was a union strike issue in Germany where they export it from. In the end, I have to say that I really liked the watch and it was worth the wait.
Laco watches are more expensive in the USA than in Europe so I decided to buy an Archimede pilot 39. Very impressed with their customer service as I had a couple of emails about how to customize it (I wanted something not pictured on their website) the watch is great too.
Would they do a custom dial? I really want a 39mm Type A with a bright red dial and the only one I've ever found was from Archimede but it was 42mm. I can always reach out to Laco, just curious if that is what you customized.
@ It's not that level of customization. I wanted a logo dial date with blued hands and a bracelet not pictured on their site but they combined 2 into what I wanted. They have a bunch of options/upgrades you can choose from.
I am not someone who complains easily either but sometimes people strive to push all the wrong buttons. Sounds like a customer service breakdown. Seems just like in the 1940's, Laco is dropping bombs again haha! Nah dude seems like you need to contact management and get this sorted. Even if it means you have to use some of your pull. Good luck man! Thanks for sharing your experience!
I had the similar experience, for different reasons, with an authorised CWS dealer, for a Zodiac. Very disappointing and felt like I'd been a dropshipping victim. Not great. Basically I had to buy it to be able to try it on, then I could keep it or ask for a refund. The watch never arrived, and took weeks to get the cash back
I ordered a watch from them. It was supposed to come with a watch travel box as a gift. The watch arrived, the gift never arrived. I waited 3-4 months. After contacting them several times, they sent somethings extremely ugly, nothing like the box they showed on the website. They were giving excuses with their supplier again. Never buying from them again
Bought a Bell Fireman Enterprise from CW Sellors guy called Jack dealt with my order, paid over the phone and had it delivered to my home, all went smoothly and very happy with the service from him/them. Hopefully this is just a one off and something weird was going on.
I have a Laco Karlsruhe 43mm. I purchased mine almost new off of eBay from a German seller. I would be patient and try to find one like that. Someone commented that Stowa is better quality while also having the heritage. I have also heard that, I am saving to get a Stowa and compare the experience.
Bought a Certina from them 18 months ago and recived the watch with about 3 weeks delay, then ordered a leather bracelet for it, payed in full and 18 months later I still don't have it. Your video just made me to email them again and demand for a refund.
Based here in the US, but it seems CW dropped the ball on your order for sure, then started making excuses in my opinion. In a different story with the Mido brand, I wanted to try some watches on my wrist. The website for Mido told me where the closest store was, so jumped in the car and drove to them. One I got there, the store owner said they don’t sell Mido watches. 😡😡😡. I showed the website from Mido and he just shrugged 🤷. Listening to your terrible encounter with CW, I can feel your pain. I really hope all works out for you soon, think Laco should talk with CW management about this issue.
As someone who works in customer service in Germany plus had a couple of talks with the people of laco... they won't be happy about that. not at all. I had just great customer experience with laco the last couple of years.
You know what, this video did remind me of how I bought a watch from them. Originally it was a Polycarbon Black D1 Milano and brought it from them. I think they did not have it in stock and had to call them many times for me to understand what was going on. I think after a month I decided to change my order and get a D1 Milano that they had in stock. Even though I did have to pay extract I did get a D1 Milano Ultra Think in an all black colour.
You should have gone with First Class Watches. That's the online store for a bricks and mortar establishment of James Moore and Co in Kenilworth, Warwickshire. They are a brilliant company. I got my Longines Spirit from these guys for an unbelievable price and they are truly fantastic to deal with.
This is upsetting, seriously ridiculous, Woah, I don't know what to say about this,I stay away from dealers myself ,sounds like headache...until next time my friend stay well...😊
Thanks for sharing your awful experience 😢. The seller should be named and shamed big time. I also had a similar experience with ROTARY despite the fact that I purchased from them directly. Buyer beware 😬!
I can forgive the delay in an order arriving but not giving you a refund when you asked & in return offering you a £17 discount is bang out of order. I would never return to that retailer.
i bought a Zodiac sea cron from jura, which is the same thing as c w sellors. i got a great price (£1250 when most stores were selling for double that price and more) and it was delivered in a few days.
That sucks, brexit must be a pain in the hoop for stuff like this. I experience it when inporting to the EU so having to go through it for any international orders would drive me mad
I've been fortunate enough to have never had bad experiences with vendors. Don't get me started on delivery services though-- over the last year or so they've all been terrible, ranging from FedEx and DHL to local companies here. I just won't hold it against the brands or vendors, as that's out of their influence.
i'm afraid this is more the norm than the exception these days. poor processes, little or no communication, etc. i just had a faulty washing machine during the warranty period. You wouldn't believe what a disaster it was... anyway, I hope you get your money back.
I honestly don’t see anything misleading here. Clearly it wasn’t Laco’s fault. Sellers like CW Sellor are quite common, mate. Sorry you had to experience that. No one should experience that. Be it for a watch or for a pencil. There’s no price to being honest. Cheers mate! 👌🏻
I had a similar experience with this dealer last year. I placed an order for a Sinn 556, their acknowledgement stated there would be a 5 month delay. C.W.Sellors took the whole price then. After waiting the prescribed time, I noticed that they were advertising a two week delivery and expected delivery in the near future. By now the price had risen but I had paid in full. After another month I had to cancel in order to get a refund. I cannot recommend this dealer.
Interestingly, I was going to be purchasing 2 watches them, a Breitling and a Seiko, and I almost bought it today…however, after seeing this video, I have decided I will be purchasing it from somewhere else. shame on them, what a disgusting experience that you’ve had to endure. That is the opposite of customer service.
I'm sorry you have to experience this, Kieron. Anyway, I got messed with FedEx in ordering Avi-8 recently. They first said that it will arrived me 14/11, then they sent message that it shall be 15/11 on 0500 PM instead, which is fine by me. The thing is on 15/11 at 0700 PM I ain't see anything so I call FedEx office of Thailand and they said that my watch is still in the FedEx hub in Japan. And finally, it arrived me on 18/11 instead.
Ok. Refund issue. They're screwing with you. I work in accounts and deal with payments and refunds every day. They could have that money back to you same day. Also, I don't know how you paid but I'm guessing it was by card. If so, if it was a debit card, contact your bank and ask them to charge back the payment. If it was credit card, contact card supplier and ask them to reverse the payment. P.s. always pay for anything over £100 with credit card. The payment is then fully covered.
I had the same experience with C W Sellors buying a Louis Erard. A truly poor experience, definitely a company to avoid. Are they the same company as Jura?
Had this watch and the dial itself is stunning but … the movement is a Miyota and the rotor noise was awful. It was so awful that I hated wearing it so I moved it on. I think (assuming you get your money back) you might have dodged a bullet there. Good luck.
The Laco is a good historical watch, but if I had to buy a Flieger, I would go for the Stowa. They have the past in common with Laco, but the present models I think that they are better finished. And I don't know, but maybe the customer service is also better.
Well, Laco emailed me back the next day, so the customer service seems decent... From my single experience that is. I don't mind Stowa but the Laco excites me a bit more. Especially with that electric blue dial!
@TopTierTicker I think that Laco should have solved the problem internally. Telling the customer that the problem is their dealer makes Laco and the dealer look bad, and the customer is left without the watch they have already paid for.
@@FerranJordanI disagree. Laco are helpless here. If I bought directly, sure. And I will buy direct very soon. I was honestly impressed that they replied to my email so quickly and was so open about what had happened.
@@TopTierTicker Maybe you're right. I guess it depends how you look at it. It is true that you bought the watch from CW, and they are solely responsible for the transaction. But I also think that if I were Laco, and I became aware that an authorized dealer of mine is failing a customer who wants one of my watches, I would step in, at least by calling CW, and asking what's going on. If Laco doesn't have some control over the distributors, what's the difference between buying from them and buying from the grey market?
@@TopTierTicker I disagree about Laco being helpless. Its up to manufacturers (in any industry) to constantly review and communicate with their dealers, their dealers are very often the front line to their end customers so what they do matters. If there is a problem with an authorised dealer for any reason at all such as a bad line of credit or something like that then that dealer needs to be pulled or at least put on hold until that is resolved. Otherwise you end up in a situation like you unfortunately suffered where Laco advertise on their website two main dealers and you assume their endorsement is a seal of approval. As it turns out one of those two AD's made a mess of your order due to a problem Laco are clearly well aware of. Thats not cool and although Laco didn't make the mistake, they are aware of the problem that lead to the mistake and did nothing about it. Hope you get it sorted bud, I enjoy your videos.
Well the watch will be worth it as Laco is a great brand. They will have noted your concerns and it's not the customer service they want from their Authorised dealers.
That's just terrible 😮 the Laco Aachen 39 is on my list 😁 I haven't been part of this Watch Enthusiast Society for very long but finding a good Watch Dealer is like finding a good auto mechanic 🤔 I've got one in San Antonio Texas I trust but maybe that's because I'm a cash customer 😁
If you paid with a credit card, contact your CC company and ask for a reversal on your payment. Provide them the emails from CW and Laco, and explain that this is a scam. You'll have your money back in the same day.
Too kind. I'd just do the reversal. They sound so disorganised they'll probably send you the money back anyway. If they come back at you for the money just respond in kind, ignoring emails and taking your time
Well, I was a bit cautious to upload this as some companies are happy to send legal action when they don't have any right doing. I produced the video carefully so that everything I said was purely my experience.
This is such a stupid stance for retailers to take at anytime but especially in todays world of electronic media ! You can trash your name & goodwill in a day . I definitely won't buy from them & will pass on the info . Cheers
@@erikknudsen2971 it's not misleading... I tried to buy a Laco and I was lied to. I removed the arrow so it doesn't look like Laco's fault. As mentioned earlier, It's impossible to give full context with just a thumbnail. Anyone who watches can see that it's not Laco's fault.
You really should change that picture/thumbnail Laco is not to blaim at all (as you also state). Why not the resellers logo instead? I get it, that the Laco draws attention, but its quite unfair.
A dealer not having a line of credit with the supplier is a RED FLAG.
100
That was my experience, Vulcain have employed a payment on order policy with them, in my mind cw sellors and others in their group are at risk of folding
True!
Plus a dealer that sells below the price in germany+import taxes is weird
I wish more people shared experiences like this, and the fact that you revealed the name of the store and not just telling your story without giving out those kinds of details like alot of people do when making videos like this is very good. Stuff like this happens more often than you'd think and nobody talks about it. You having a channel and being able to reach out to hundreds of people with information like this is great because now a bunch of people wont buy from them and they will loose sales, and maybe that will make them realise their mistake and be better in the future.
Easy explanation - CWS is having major cashflow problems.
Hi Kieran, that is so sad buddy. I used to be a buyer for the health service back in the day...and those kind of shenanigans would have gotten me the sack.
I too have dealt with them on occasion and they do take a long time to respond but mostly they get there. I did however have a similar situation with two separate watch purchases. Both eventually got refunded after phone calls, emails and pfaffing about for weeks, without any cogent responses. Bit of a disaster and well highlighted...especially in the run up to Christmas!
Cheers John. All part of the fun isn't it 🤣 should've just not been a tight git and paid the import. Lesson learnt 😂
Thanks for sharing this. Looks like CW Sellors are now on my shit list - and I'm unsubscribing from their emails immediately. Last time I'll ever buy from them, for sure.
this is a much simpler situation than you might realize. Your bad luck almost certainly stems from the timing of your order. European Shipping for an item as small as a watch will NEVER take 4 weeks so the ETA quoted should have been 1 - 2 weeks max. The mere fact they estimated up to 4 weeks shows me quite clearly you placed your order on the heels of CW placing a substantial order that was already closed and being processed or shipped. They either did not have the capital (or desire) to expend on an additional order for more watches so your order was effectively "backordered" to allow CW more time to process the sales required to generate enough income to place another substantial overseas inventory order which would include the watch you ordered. If they ship your watch individually it would cost the same as the direct price from germany. They can ONLY offer you a better price because they order watches "in bulk" to get significantly discounted prices. Depending on how slow their recent sales have been they may not even be financially capable of issuing a timely refund. Customer communication is key to customer satisfaction... they should have simply explained the real reason for the delay up front and give you the option to wait or cancel. I'm 99% certain my assessment of the situation is accurate as I operate a similar business and faced similar issues before.
Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I suspected something like this might have been the reason why but I didn't want to make claims that I had no proof of :)
@@TopTierTicker by the process of logical deduction I don't see any other possibility. I have quoted customers sometimes 3 month delays on orders and had no issues because the customers knew all of the potential issues up front. They should have told you the truth BEFORE they took your money. Simple as that. For this reason I too would avoid doing business with them.
CW Sellers......a company I would never use based on this video.
CW sellors lied to me and took 5 months between taking order and refunding my money, I honestly believe the trouble is deeper than you say
Makes perfect sense. Awful.
Damn, lying to your own customers is a real red flag. Good that Laco is clear about this.
That sucks. From the Laco website: "If you specify a delivery address outside the EU, the VAT will be automatically deducted during the ordering process." So that's 316 euro (390 euro minus VAT) plus 30 euro shipping for a total of 346 euro (£288). There is then VAT to pay (20 % unfortunately, not the 19 % Laco take off the price) plus 2% Customs duty once it reaches the UK, bringing the cost to you back up to around £355. CW Sellors are selling it for £331 in the sale, so not that much cheaper. Given your experience, I'd buy direct from Laco as you are now but I can see why you'd prefer to save a few quid.
I paid £312 for it from CW Sellors, I wasn't aware that Laco knocks off the VAT otherwise I would've gone direct straight away! Thanks for making me aware of this.
You are fired up...good for you! It's great that you have a public platform to complain, hopefully that gets their attention. Well done!
I have bought four watches from CW Sellors and had an excellent experience each time.
On the first occasion I bought a Montblanc that wasn't in stock. I negotiated a good price, plus a free Montblanc leather strap. Watch arrived within three weeks. I had to wait quite sine time for the extra leather strap but didn't mind because it was a free cheeky sweetener.
Second occasion was a G-Shock. It was in their sale but I saw it cheaper elsewhere and asked them if they'd match the price. They said no as the site I saw the watch was not a UK AD. They did offer to reduce their price further and give me a 10% discount on my next purchase. I bought the watch and it was with me next day.
The third purchase was Christmas last year when I bought a Tissot seastar as a gift. The size I wanted was not in stock but I got a good discount against the same watch in smaller size. Again, delivery next day.
Fourth experience was just last week. Bought a Certina (underrated brand BTW). Absolutely no problems and watch arrived the next day.
I'm sorry for your experience but I can only speak for myself and I have had great service.
Good to hear! Thanks for sharing your experiences with them. It's good to have balance in a situation like this. I'm sure what happened with me is a rare occurrence.
Hi Kieron - I’m German and I travel to Aachen regularly (I know!). I’m an Aachener living in the UK and was thinking of buying precisely the same watch from a local dealer just outside of Aachen in the near future 😀. In case you don’t get anywhere, I’m happy to help you out. Hope you get sorted. M
My worst watch buying experience was ordering from Nivada Grenchen. I ordered a watch, got the order confirmation, then nothing. A few days later the model was marked out of stock on the website. I contacted their CS and they gave me a delivery date of about 20 days from the date I placed the order. That date came and went. The only other "answer" I got from their CS was a return mail which contained nothing but the e-mail I had sent them. It took them 25 days to ship a watch that supposedly had been available at the time I placed the order. Oh, and this "Swiss" brand is shipping from East Asia.
They probably found out that the watch was actually out of stock from their shipping hub after stock keeping, I experience this quite often in a different hobby BUT the difference is, the people I shop from are transparent about it and offer a refund/cancellation if I can't wait for a restock.
I had heard about issues buying from Nivada which is why I bought my superantarctic 2nd hand. I did however want to buy the flat link bracelet as the one I bought cam with a beads of rice bracelet, So I decided to buy that directly from Nivada Grenchen.
After a week or so my order got as far as my local FedEx order and then nothing for about another week. I contacted Nivada who told me there was an issue and they would look into it...a few days pass and I get no response so I instead contact FedEx and they were able to tell me very quickly that the issue was due to the order being damaged and that they had already notified the seller days ago.
I go back to Nivada and they confirm they can send a replacement. No problem I thought, these things happen. I wait another couple weeks and receive the replacement order, except guess what? They've shipped the wrong end links with it which don't fit my watch! I then had to contact them a 3rd time and ask them to send out the correct end links which I did finally receive, but the whole thing took about 4-6 weeks and resulted in me having to pay 2 separate import fees and get the initial one refunded. Not sure I'd ever buy from them again, and like you say, they're very proud to identify themselves as a Swiss brand yet everything is being made in Hong Kong lol.
Thanks for raising this mate!
You don't seem like a complainer, fwiw. You seem pretty upbeat. That's one of the reasons your videos are nice to watch.
Appreciate that. I just wanna be happy man! It's the only thing that matters in life! (and watches of course) ;)
@@TopTierTicker Well, watches do add to your happiness-- so they are in the same ballpark ;-)
This must be a sign! I have a Zodiac super sea wolf skin diver in my basket on the CW Sellors website! I was just browsing reviews on RUclips and stumbled on your video!
Well guess I’m not buying from them anymore! 😮🤦🏽♂️
I bought two watches from them a few months back and all went well. Managed to get a deal I was happy with too. These were both in stock watches, a Hamilton and a Muhle Glashutte.
I really wanted to decide between the Muhle and a Sinn 144 but they didn’t have the Sinn in stock and told me an order may take around 16 weeks! Luckily the Muhle (which was the only one they had at any branch) was the exact one I wanted.
So, I think if they have what you want in stock, (they can transfer between branches as they did with mine), then you should be fine. I got a fairly chunky discount off list for both watches and it was a pleasant experience all round. From your story I’d be wary of ordering something though, which is a shame as they’re the only AD anywhere near me for a lot of the smaller brands.
Wow. Thats rotten. I’m sorry you had to go through this. Poor communication is really the worst. I hope you get your money back soon and your new watch in its way.
Kieron / btw I know what has happened and this is typical with many of these German brands. (Not the brands fault) They offer customisation and a huge catalogue, think Laco , Sinn, hanhart.. then they only work with select retailers in each region. Therefore most variants of models won’t be in stock unless it’s a customer return or ex display. There are high delivery charges that the brand charges the AD. That’s why especially if you buy a lower price watch or accessory bad AD’s will wait until they have enough orders from customers and then order everything at the same time once every few months typically. My advice is if you want a German watch buy it in Germany where you can see it face to face and then just get the VAT refund at the airport as well. Hope this advice helps and it’s what I done with my Sinn. Bought it in Europe for a cheaper price here in the Uk and then got a further 12% back on the VAT. You can literally take a same day flight on Ryanair
Had a similar experience. The team at CW were pleasant whenever I spoke to them, but after three months of waiting, I gave up. I was offered additional discounts (25% in the end) which is why I was patient. But 3 months! I suspect they stack orders to get larger discounts from the manufacturers / wholesale dealers. If they were transparent about it, I’d have waited 6 months.
What worries me is that if you order a watch from CWS and don't like it then it will be hard work getting a refund. Thanks for the heads-up.
I have a good experience of CW Sellors.
I bought a Sinn 556 from CW sellers in 2022, I bought it from the shop that was in Leeds at that time. I had a small issue with dust on the dial, I went to CW sellors in Ashbourne to show them the watch. They sent it for repair and I had the watch back within a week , good as new. I think the online part of the business is not to the same standard as the actual shops.
Hi TTT, I'm a Bavarian and since Laco is a Bavarian Brand, I thought that I need to have a Laco in my collection, over a year ago.
As you may know, when you order a watch directly from the Laco Website, you can customize your watch to your preference.
I wanted to have the 42mm "Blaue Stunde" B-Dial Modell with the metal bracelet, the decorated Miota movement and some engravings.
Took's not even 2 weeks to receive the watch, exactly as I ordered it from Laco. Custom made for me!
The problem here is not Laco. The problem is the retailer!
I had a similar experience with an AD trying to order a Black Bay. Was told for 6 weeks it would be one more week. After finding it in stock at another AD I went to the original AD for a refund of my deposit and the watch they told me earlier that day and for the last 6 weeks wasn’t available yet was sitting in their case for purchase.
FWIW, I bought a Frankfurt directly from Laco earlier this year, and they were superb to deal with.
Hard to believe it can be this bad these days. Maybe buying directly from Laco is the best idea. I hope in the end you will like the watch, I have Paderborn 42 and so far together with 1963 chrono they are my only non divers that I have and like.
I got it directly from Laco. Don't remember exactly how long it took, but probably around a week. And even with shipping it was 70 EUR less than buying from a local dealer.
Are you kidding me? Bad customer service? This has elements of everything from fraud to consumer protection violations to financial malpractice ...to bad customer service. Use all legal remedies at your disposal if you need to - you'll crush them.
I've shopped with them a couple of times in the past. Both a times a while ago; The first was for a Hamilton at a very large discount which was in stock, so a great deal. The second was for a Nomos which wasn't in stock but it arrived within the four week promised time. They also gave me a 15% discount, and a decent quality watch winder. So good experiences but I'm always wary of ADs with a large number of manufacturers on their books and this company has a massive portfolio of brands..
I bought a 42" Lcao Flieger from C.W.Sellors (aka Jura) two years ago, and the watch was sent within 2 weeks, which I think was within the estimate on the web site for that item.
After having a few bad experiences - I have a few rules for myself when buying watches; buy from an official AD in person, buy a brand with a big reputation / service centre. Avoid micro brands unless they have a boutique, buy second hand watches only from a very reputable business. Don’t buy from a private individual.
I bought a Montblanc from them in November 2022 which wasn't in stock. I paid a deposit and from memory, it arrived within 2 weeks with no issues. I live in Derbyshire so I picked it up in person. Unfortunately I have never managed to bond with the watch but that's not their fault.
I just purchased a Laco Aachen (gray) from Watch Gang via a wheel spin… I got it for $350 (the wheel spin price) and it was the level one item. Just sharing in case you wanted to go that route!
Hey Kieron
I had a very similar experience with the same company just before Christmas last year. I ordered the 42mm Augsburg and it took about 6 - 8 weeks, if I remember correctly. I was emailing for updates and it was all quite vague. The watch did show up eventually but I sold it in the summer because it was too big. I was wearing it on my 7.5 inch wrist and thought it too big. If I’d gone for the 39mm I may still have it.
I tried to buy the same watch but on NATO from Jura (same group) on 6th September. Same experience so on 8th October I requested a refund and cancellation and got email confirmation of such. I wanted the watch for mid October trip so Jura missed chance. On seeing your video I checked my account and realised I had not actually had the refund. So I phoned this afternoon and now have email saying the amount owing has been refunded. Very pleasant lady on call apologised and blamed IT issue. Hopefully, the money will eventually come through. I’ll remember to check this time.
I have subsequently got the watch and it’s great (Amazon £288 so slightly more than Jura).
Thanks for your video on this as it made me check my account.
Error in above. Not same watch. Augsburg is the one I tried to buy. 39.
I haven't bought a watch from CW Sellors or from Laco (though the exact watch you've ordered and not received is one that I personally have thought of purchasing myself) but I have ordered a watch from First Class Watches (the other AD listed in the video). They were great. I had to return a watch and they were absolutely fantastic.
Good to know, cheers!
Go with First Class Watches...they are truly very good!
You’d be surprise how patient customers are if you just give them an update. Them not reaching out to you to update is cowardly. You handle it how I would’ve. Hope you get your watch!
I had a good experience, twice. Sorry to hear your’s was so arduous. Good luck.
Appreciate that. Glad you have a good experience with them my friend! I also had the one good experience too! Shame about the second
I have made two purchases in the past and have not had any issues. However, after hearing your experience, i would be hesitant to deal with them again.
The same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago from Italy, and I was about to request a refund. I think there was a union strike issue in Germany where they export it from. In the end, I have to say that I really liked the watch and it was worth the wait.
Laco watches are more expensive in the USA than in Europe so I decided to buy an Archimede pilot 39. Very impressed with their customer service as I had a couple of emails about how to customize it (I wanted something not pictured on their website) the watch is great too.
Would they do a custom dial? I really want a 39mm Type A with a bright red dial and the only one I've ever found was from Archimede but it was 42mm. I can always reach out to Laco, just curious if that is what you customized.
@ It's not that level of customization. I wanted a logo dial date with blued hands and a bracelet not pictured on their site but they combined 2 into what I wanted. They have a bunch of options/upgrades you can choose from.
I am not someone who complains easily either but sometimes people strive to push all the wrong buttons. Sounds like a customer service breakdown. Seems just like in the 1940's, Laco is dropping bombs again haha! Nah dude seems like you need to contact management and get this sorted. Even if it means you have to use some of your pull. Good luck man! Thanks for sharing your experience!
I had the similar experience, for different reasons, with an authorised CWS dealer, for a Zodiac.
Very disappointing and felt like I'd been a dropshipping victim. Not great. Basically I had to buy it to be able to try it on, then I could keep it or ask for a refund. The watch never arrived, and took weeks to get the cash back
Sorry to hear about that! Appreciate you sharing your story with us.
I ordered a watch from them. It was supposed to come with a watch travel box as a gift. The watch arrived, the gift never arrived. I waited 3-4 months. After contacting them several times, they sent somethings extremely ugly, nothing like the box they showed on the website. They were giving excuses with their supplier again. Never buying from them again
Bought a Bell Fireman Enterprise from CW Sellors guy called Jack dealt with my order, paid over the phone and had it delivered to my home, all went smoothly and very happy with the service from him/them. Hopefully this is just a one off and something weird was going on.
Good to hear! As mentioned at the start of the video, I bought my PRX from them with no issues. Hopefully it's just a rare occurrence!
I have a Laco Karlsruhe 43mm. I purchased mine almost new off of eBay from a German seller. I would be patient and try to find one like that. Someone commented that Stowa is better quality while also having the heritage. I have also heard that, I am saving to get a Stowa and compare the experience.
Bought a Certina from them 18 months ago and recived the watch with about 3 weeks delay, then ordered a leather bracelet for it, payed in full and 18 months later I still don't have it. Your video just made me to email them again and demand for a refund.
Based here in the US, but it seems CW dropped the ball on your order for sure, then started making excuses in my opinion. In a different story with the Mido brand, I wanted to try some watches on my wrist. The website for Mido told me where the closest store was, so jumped in the car and drove to them. One I got there, the store owner said they don’t sell Mido watches. 😡😡😡. I showed the website from Mido and he just shrugged 🤷. Listening to your terrible encounter with CW, I can feel your pain. I really hope all works out for you soon, think Laco should talk with CW management about this issue.
As someone who works in customer service in Germany plus had a couple of talks with the people of laco... they won't be happy about that. not at all. I had just great customer experience with laco the last couple of years.
You know what, this video did remind me of how I bought a watch from them.
Originally it was a Polycarbon Black D1 Milano and brought it from them. I think they did not have it in stock and had to call them many times for me to understand what was going on. I think after a month I decided to change my order and get a D1 Milano that they had in stock. Even though I did have to pay extract I did get a D1 Milano Ultra Think in an all black colour.
You should have gone with First Class Watches. That's the online store for a bricks and mortar establishment of James Moore and Co in Kenilworth, Warwickshire. They are a brilliant company. I got my Longines Spirit from these guys for an unbelievable price and they are truly fantastic to deal with.
That Apiar is a spectacular watch. Such a shame that brands think this level of customer service is acceptable.
This is upsetting, seriously ridiculous, Woah, I don't know what to say about this,I stay away from dealers myself ,sounds like headache...until next time my friend stay well...😊
Thanks for sharing your awful experience 😢. The seller should be named and shamed big time.
I also had a similar experience with ROTARY despite the fact that I purchased from them directly. Buyer beware 😬!
From what i see, just buy the Laco directly. I love my Leipzig blue B-typ dial on black leather strap. Mechanical version too!
If I were you, I would black listed on CW SELLER for misleading info / crooked business practices.
I can forgive the delay in an order arriving but not giving you a refund when you asked & in return offering you a £17 discount is bang out of order. I would never return to that retailer.
i bought a Zodiac sea cron from jura, which is the same thing as c w sellors. i got a great price (£1250 when most stores were selling for double that price and more) and it was delivered in a few days.
That sucks, brexit must be a pain in the hoop for stuff like this. I experience it when inporting to the EU so having to go through it for any international orders would drive me mad
Companies are quick to take peoples money but slow to process returns or make things right for the customer.
. Ironically, Ali express is more comunicative about ETA on your orders for much cheaper items.
TRUE! I get more email updates from AliExpress than spam adverts from all the crap I've signed up to over the years xD!
I've been fortunate enough to have never had bad experiences with vendors. Don't get me started on delivery services though-- over the last year or so they've all been terrible, ranging from FedEx and DHL to local companies here. I just won't hold it against the brands or vendors, as that's out of their influence.
True that! Although my FedEx delivery man is an absolute legend. We talk watches for 10 minutes every time he drops off! haha
Interesting. Laco only supplies CW Sellors for cash - no commercial credit account? 🤔
Not sure how it all works... I know that they have some models in the UK ready to ship, but most are in Germany and need to be ordered.
i'm afraid this is more the norm than the exception these days. poor processes, little or no communication, etc. i just had a faulty washing machine during the warranty period. You wouldn't believe what a disaster it was... anyway, I hope you get your money back.
I honestly don’t see anything misleading here. Clearly it wasn’t Laco’s fault. Sellers like CW Sellor are quite common, mate. Sorry you had to experience that. No one should experience that. Be it for a watch or for a pencil. There’s no price to being honest. Cheers mate! 👌🏻
I had a similar experience with this dealer last year. I placed an order for a Sinn 556, their acknowledgement stated there would be a 5 month delay. C.W.Sellors took the whole price then. After waiting the prescribed time, I noticed that they were advertising a two week delivery and expected delivery in the near future. By now the price had risen but I had paid in full. After another month I had to cancel in order to get a refund. I cannot recommend this dealer.
Interestingly, I was going to be purchasing 2 watches them, a Breitling and a Seiko, and I almost bought it today…however, after seeing this video, I have decided I will be purchasing it from somewhere else. shame on them, what a disgusting experience that you’ve had to endure. That is the opposite of customer service.
I'm sorry you have to experience this, Kieron.
Anyway, I got messed with FedEx in ordering Avi-8 recently. They first said that it will arrived me 14/11, then they sent message that it shall be 15/11 on 0500 PM instead, which is fine by me.
The thing is on 15/11 at 0700 PM I ain't see anything so I call FedEx office of Thailand and they said that my watch is still in the FedEx hub in Japan.
And finally, it arrived me on 18/11 instead.
Thanks for the warning!
Hi mate, I bought 42mm Aachen blue from amazon a couple of weeks ago, £279 (no fees) and received it 3 days later
my guess is they (CW) are in trouble financially.
Ok. Refund issue. They're screwing with you. I work in accounts and deal with payments and refunds every day. They could have that money back to you same day. Also, I don't know how you paid but I'm guessing it was by card. If so, if it was a debit card, contact your bank and ask them to charge back the payment. If it was credit card, contact card supplier and ask them to reverse the payment. P.s. always pay for anything over £100 with credit card. The payment is then fully covered.
I had the same experience with C W Sellors buying a Louis Erard. A truly poor experience, definitely a company to avoid. Are they the same company as Jura?
Had this watch and the dial itself is stunning but … the movement is a Miyota and the rotor noise was awful. It was so awful that I hated wearing it so I moved it on. I think (assuming you get your money back) you might have dodged a bullet there. Good luck.
I bought an engraved Valencia from them directly and it was an excellent experience.
Well, I'll not be ordering from CW Sellors anytime soon. Thanks for the heads up 👍
Personally I like my fliegers as type a and with a black dial
The Laco is a good historical watch, but if I had to buy a Flieger, I would go for the Stowa. They have the past in common with Laco, but the present models I think that they are better finished. And I don't know, but maybe the customer service is also better.
Well, Laco emailed me back the next day, so the customer service seems decent... From my single experience that is. I don't mind Stowa but the Laco excites me a bit more. Especially with that electric blue dial!
@TopTierTicker I think that Laco should have solved the problem internally. Telling the customer that the problem is their dealer makes Laco and the dealer look bad, and the customer is left without the watch they have already paid for.
@@FerranJordanI disagree. Laco are helpless here. If I bought directly, sure. And I will buy direct very soon. I was honestly impressed that they replied to my email so quickly and was so open about what had happened.
@@TopTierTicker Maybe you're right. I guess it depends how you look at it. It is true that you bought the watch from CW, and they are solely responsible for the transaction. But I also think that if I were Laco, and I became aware that an authorized dealer of mine is failing a customer who wants one of my watches, I would step in, at least by calling CW, and asking what's going on. If Laco doesn't have some control over the distributors, what's the difference between buying from them and buying from the grey market?
@@TopTierTicker I disagree about Laco being helpless.
Its up to manufacturers (in any industry) to constantly review and communicate with their dealers, their dealers are very often the front line to their end customers so what they do matters. If there is a problem with an authorised dealer for any reason at all such as a bad line of credit or something like that then that dealer needs to be pulled or at least put on hold until that is resolved.
Otherwise you end up in a situation like you unfortunately suffered where Laco advertise on their website two main dealers and you assume their endorsement is a seal of approval. As it turns out one of those two AD's made a mess of your order due to a problem Laco are clearly well aware of.
Thats not cool and although Laco didn't make the mistake, they are aware of the problem that lead to the mistake and did nothing about it.
Hope you get it sorted bud, I enjoy your videos.
This is an experience of military pilot - one moment you are king and a moment later you are drawn into a death spiral 🤷♂
Well the watch will be worth it as Laco is a great brand. They will have noted your concerns and it's not the customer service they want from their Authorised dealers.
Can't wait to finally get it! I just want my Aachen! It's such a beauty!
That's just terrible 😮 the Laco Aachen 39 is on my list 😁 I haven't been part of this Watch Enthusiast Society for very long but finding a good Watch Dealer is like finding a good auto mechanic 🤔 I've got one in San Antonio Texas I trust but maybe that's because I'm a cash customer 😁
If you paid with a credit card, contact your CC company and ask for a reversal on your payment. Provide them the emails from CW and Laco, and explain that this is a scam. You'll have your money back in the same day.
I'm sure the refund is coming my way. They can sometimes take a few weeks. If I don't have it back after a month, I'll do what you suggested. Cheers
Too kind. I'd just do the reversal. They sound so disorganised they'll probably send you the money back anyway. If they come back at you for the money just respond in kind, ignoring emails and taking your time
11 days and still nothing? Yeah, I would have already started doing a charge back on my credit card.
I've purchased several watches from CW and must have been lucky as each was without fault.
Hey.
Just FYI that same watch is listed as In Stock with First Class Watches....
I've seen CW Sellors online, but never ordered anything...certainly won't be ordering anything from them now
Thanx for the heads up,im never gonna shop with cw seller
I think you should bring up bad events as well as the good. So few watch channels go there.
Well, I was a bit cautious to upload this as some companies are happy to send legal action when they don't have any right doing. I produced the video carefully so that everything I said was purely my experience.
Nope, never ordered from them, and after your video, I never will.
Apparently, there was a Laco communication indeed.
Hehe, I see what you did there.
This is such a stupid stance for retailers to take at anytime but especially in todays world of electronic media ! You can trash your name & goodwill in a day . I definitely won't buy from them & will pass on the info . Cheers
Wow thanks for sharing
Actually Laco needs to communicate how they plan on dealing with this dealer. If there is no disciplinary action then that reflects the brand
Contact your bank. Submit a transaction dispute.
UK supplier fu@ed up!
Have you contacted your bank? If you used a card, likely they can help you. CW is broke - that's why they could not pay Laco.
Honestly the thumbnail is bad and not fair to Laco as they are not at fault here.
Do you genuinely think so? It's impossible to give full context on just a thumbnail... I've changed to something else.
@TopTierTicker still misleading
@@erikknudsen2971 it's not misleading... I tried to buy a Laco and I was lied to. I removed the arrow so it doesn't look like Laco's fault. As mentioned earlier, It's impossible to give full context with just a thumbnail. Anyone who watches can see that it's not Laco's fault.
direct change “They” into “CW Sellers”😌
I've changed the thumbnail so the watch and brand name is blurred with a question mark. Thanks for the feedback.
My advise is do not buy on backorder from anyone. period.
That's a good rule to have!
Very disappointing. Really shoddy treatment.
Go to a lawyer. They are treacherous.
You really should change that picture/thumbnail Laco is not to blaim at all (as you also state). Why not the resellers logo instead? I get it, that the Laco draws attention, but its quite unfair.
if you want any watch apart from a rolly got straight to the horses mouth; its allways better and mostly cheaper.