Clair Brothers Semiauto Shotgun from the 1890s
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- Опубликовано: 25 фев 2021
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The Clair brothers were three men from Saint Etienne, France - Benoit, Jean Baptiste, and Victor Clair. They submitted their first patent in 1889, which described in general a gas-operating system for firearms. This was followed by a British patent (#15,833) in 1893 for their system, which they claimed was applicable to anything from a pistol up to a rifle, Gatling-style large gun, or even cannon. We know that they did apply the design to shotguns (like the one in today's video), rifles, and handguns. At least one functional example of their pistol was built, because it was tested (unsuccessfully) against the French Mle 1892 revolver. The basic system is a long stroke gas pistol system and a magazine extending from the action backwards into the stock. For more information on Clair firearms, see my previous blog post on the Clair self-loading pistol:
www.forgottenweapons.com/earl...
Thanks to the Liege Arms Museum for access to film this for you! If you are in Belgium, definitely plan to stop into the museum, part of the Grand Curtius. They have a very good selection of interesting and unusual arms on display.
www.grandcurtius.be
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Not to be confused with the Éclair shotgun, an ill thought-out method of rapidly delivering pastries.
I’d empty the magazine pretty fast too 😛
I would pay alot for one of those
"An éclair please, waiter"
"Certainly, sir"
BAM!
Looks like Kurt Cobain thaught he had one of those.
@Iamnaa
Would you choux't or shoot an Éclair shotgun?
Ian maintaining his professional aura despite that inner desire to probably take this gun for himself.
Gun Jesus doesn't do shotguns (I never realized that the pandemic was ripping up normality so badly)
Or at least take it apart with a biro.
@@smokerjim That's not right, he got his very _nom de Messie_ while cosplaying with a shotgun.
He edited off the end of the video where he yells, "woop!" and runs off with it.
A Semi automatic shotgun from 19th century that is not Auto-5? That's really cool
The auto-5 came out in 1905, I wouldn’t call that a 19th century shotgun.
Well, it's not American, thus not relevant, isn't that how it work??
@@Barabel22 it was designed in 1898 but began being produced in 1902.
@@Warptenlololol well which one was a success ill give you a hint it wasn't the French one
@@JohnDoe-uq9ni plus the auto 5 is probably the most beautiful shotgun I’ve ever seen
“You load this backward” well of course, its French, it had to be different.. Now let’s see if it folds...
The French language when translated into english directly is often backwards
Its like with the lebel 1886, everyone else’s rifle has an internal magazine but the French go “nah gimme that 10 round tubular magazine like a shotgun”
Kel-Tec is going to sue you for stealing their intelectual property.
@@appalachianexploration5714 Well, English is mostly based on a mix of French, Normands yadi yada & proto "Germans" (Gauls)
Brits don't like being reminded of that tho, someone will probably "joke" about " never fired, dropped once" just for pointing something akin to what you said.
EDIT: Lo and behold, like clockwork, a brit or an american just delivered as predicted, so predictable.
@@Warptenlololol you can defend the cowards all you want
As a mechanic, I just want to fix it.
Even if no one cares.
not a mechanic, also want to fix it. it seemed like its fixable and its infuriating to just let it sit in such a sorry state.
I hear ya bud.
I'd fix it even if they wouldn't let me shoot it. Would prefer the other way though
As a lover of guns I want them to let you. She sure looks like a darling!
We've got the forgotten weapons bingo:
The 1800s
Experimental and weird
Rare
French
and Semi-auto
the lightning bolts are in the logo because éclair means lightning in french
I love a good chocolate lightning
@@markvines7308 i also prefer them over the natural ones :-D
non fatning then!
@@markvines7308 They're called éclairs because you can eat them up quickly at a lightning pace (no joke)
And a play on words from their surname Clair.
wow, that store the magazine tube in the stock is quite ingenious.
I've seen .22lr rifles that do that, never a shotgun.
@@Stevarooni the spencer rifles also had tubular magazines in the buttstock but yeah first time seeing a shotgun with it.
Dont forget to ember
A magazine tube in the stock would reappear in the later Cosmi shotgun
@@Ponen77 Cosmi semiauto, since 1907. They are still manufactured, but very rare. www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Cosmi-RIGATO-Semi-Auto-Rifle-6.jpg
The "Sjögren vs. A5" debate of which was the first patented semi-auto shotgun just got blown out of the water
Today you learned.
The logo is the same design that appears on an Ancient Roman scutum shield
Lighting Bolts of Iuppiter Optimus Maximus. You are quite correct.
They've been in business for quite some time.
*I unironically like that reverse loading mech..*
Seems like it would be really balanced when loaded.
Ian's obvious disappointment at not having a perfectly operating shotgun to look at...
I know that feel, man.
Ahh yes i was looking forward to this !
There once was one clair shotgun on sale in a gun shop years ago in Nice for less than 2k euros but at that time i wasn't interested in old weapons.
Nice to see it finally covered !
Fun fact-The Eclair Shotgun is the French version of the American T-shirt or hotdog cannon
Battlefield 1: I’ll take your whole stock!
Would have been sick, the auto 5 is so bad in this game
@@vicowboy999 sadly so is the Sjögren Inertial. Such a cool gun that no one uses
@@adammanning8882 The Sjögren isn't bad in BF1. It's kind of underrated or overlooked.
"Never adopted by any military" you say? Even better!
I've recently moved to Belgium*, and thanks to this channel I definitely want to go and see the Liège museum complex once it's a bit safer to travel around the country :)
(not just for the firearms; but this is how I heard about the place!)
* Note to Ian: I feel your pain in learning French!
Once you have mastered French and you are able to travel to the Northern part of the country, you will notice that you can start all over by learning Dutch.
@@alexanderthomas2660 I live in Brussels Region, which is bilingual, so I'm plenty aware of Dutch! For various reasons my partner is learning Dutch while I'm learning French, so the plan is definitely to swap round after a bit so we both have a grounding in both languages...
Looks surprisingly modern for a 130 year old gun. Now that the patents are long expired, Chiappa could make a replica with some plastic stock and modern moulding and some machining. Would probably be very balanced with that stock tube, as opposed to a modern shotgun with front-loaded tube.
I like it's lines, that small hump reminds me of the FN-Browning Auto 5; and those sights are great.
Ian will be known amoung firearms museums in Europe and the US soon if he isn't already. Bon Voyage Forgotten Weapons.
I'm confident that he's known in all the US, and most of France. He's working on the rest of Europe now.
I'd imagine that Ian is very well known throughout European, North American and various other firearms museums, and I'd be willing to bet that he deservedly gets access to many restricted areas.
@@ianmacfarlane1241 I know he gets some pretty crazy access, how many Americans get to make videos from the French Ministry of the Interior?!?
If the firearms museums haven't all hired him to do their audioguides, they're crazy.
@@ScottKenny1978 He's extremely knowledgeable, humble, courteous, respectful and an excellent communicator, so it's justly deserved IMHO.
I've been watching Forgotten Weapons for about three years, but don't have any access to firearms - Ian has been solely responsible for opening up my eyes to the fascinating world of firearms - I can't speak highly enough of Ian McCollum.
I'm sure that's why he gets access - museums, collections and government departments know what they're getting with Ian McCollum - he's earned their trust.
It's also a win-win from a promotional point of view - his recommendation goes a long way I'm sure, particularly for smaller or more obscure collections.
Take care ✌️
That Damascus barrel is beautiful!
This is such a beautifully made gun! For starters its semiautomatic and nearly 130 years old, the damascus barrel, the color case hardening, small details in the fit and finish all looks so superb. I bet this gun would have cost close to an inordinate amount of money back in its day.
This gun seems way ahead of its time
Lovely video - what a beautiful gun with the barrel but also the very unique patterning on the fore grip. A good reminder to us all that it's a bugger of a job to make a video about a weapon when it's not in full working order. thank you Ian!
I'm amazed about old weapons's so carefully crafted details..
Shotgun videos are great. It’s the gun most people have . Please show more of this type. Always good to watch.
Man, the checkering on the grip looks great.
That is a gorgeous firearm.
An interesting fire arm from history. Possibly a-head of its time with alot of potential. Thankyou again for another great video 👍
The most elegant looking semi auto shotgun I have ever seen
What a beautiful and elegant design. Honestly it doesn't look that out of place even today
Another great video as always.. Thank you sir
Definitely a Forgotten Weapon! One of the first, maybe even the very first, semi-auto shotguns. And, I'm guessing, being the first meant they were still working out what worked and what didn't work, and in the process all sorts of weird and wacky designs were tried. But one cannot fault the Clair Brothers for stepping up to the plate and having a swing!
This gun barrel... What a beauty!
Thank you , Ian .
A great historic firearm history info nugget!! Rock on Ian.
Great video as always. Your French has really improved, especially your liaisons between words, congratulations, well done.
Thanks. Ian. I hope you can continue to show us firearms from the dawn of their existence. Sometimes the products of development can be unusual to our modern context.
SGDG means in french « sans garantie du gouvernement ». This rifle has the same mechanism than the Clair brothers pistol 1888 in 8mm, one of the first semi-automatic pistol.
Elegant and quite good looking weapon, quite amazing.
beautiful gun!
That is one beautiful looking firearm, I'm quite taken by the loading system which I imagine would be quite intuitive and easy to use ... Thanks to Ian and to the outstanding Liege museum for bringing this beauty to our attention - for the followers of Gun Jesus are truly blessed!!
Very cool.
It is nice to know new ideas are not really that new.
The magazine is interesting.
Until I saw this video, I always thought the Browning A5 was the first auto loader shotgun. Thanks Ian!
Damn I've never been this early. Thanks for sparking a love for history and technology that I never thought id have.
Gorgeous looking gun
I wish you would make some videos of Darne and Charlin sliding breech shotguns as well the Verney-Carron Stopvis (unique single shot sliding breech shotgun made from 1928 to 1968 if I'm correct). All of these shotguns were made in Saint-Étienne, too.
This is one of the coolest *things* I’ve ever seen
Beautiful gun ian
Hey, Ian, You don't have to thank me every time for tuning in. The pleasure is always all mine.
I suspect the difference between their patent and the Maxim one was that they were French and Maxim was a foreigner.
I don't think Maxim patented a gas piston system prior to 1890. His first gas-operated patents were gas-trap. Ian is usually a good researcher but in this case I think he's mistaken if he thinks there was a gas piston machine gun from 1884 by Maxim.
That demascus barrel is insane
Something about this one really appeals to me. To my eye, a very beautiful shotgun. I like the way the magazine is charged. Seems like a shell could be rapidly inserted an pushed back with the index finger. Maybe everyone else later got it backwards?
That's a mighty fine lookin boom tube you've got there
absolutely beautiful
I must say, as a French speaker, your pronunciation has definitely improved over time. Sounds like the lessons are paying off, great job.
He did; just have a look at the bibliography of his own book "from Chassepot to famas"
That's one beautiful looking gun
i would love to just be in a museum one day and see you walking around looking at the weirdest firearms on display.
that blue is so dang nice
Woo shotgun!
What a beauty.
That is a beautiful gun.
I love how the stock and receiver are basically as MAS 36!
That for it's age. Is beautiful to look at..
Very interesting and advanced design. It was just begging for an inline stock and a pistol grip.
Gorgeous firearm!
Another beauty
Another interesting piece of history! How in the world do you find them? And then to know what you found. I know you have had to self study out of a plethora of books. But to know all these differing stages and models is just amazing. My respects Ian.
God bless all here.
The paper shotgun shells of the time must have made back-loading that shotgun fun.
For so early this is really cool!
Gret video, if you could get your hands on that semi auto Clair carbine, that would be absolutly awesome! (and also that RSC mousqueton who still exist!)
Someone should fit a replacement recoil spring. It is probably a coil spring and the odds are ones similar in size already exist. Noting also coil springs aren't that hard to fabricate with some music wire and a mandrel. Damascus barrels imply black powder loads, so we are talking about a black powder gas tube? I wonder about how the fouling issue was addressed? Pretty cool though.
That’s a beautiful shotgun
Very advanced for its time
Thank you very interesting
The ammo tube in the butt sounds like a really good idea for making a very short shotgun, it seems like a good idea for making a cool bullpup.
That Barrel is Super Pretty
The man does like experimental semi auto firearms
Idk about you guys but I feel that loading shells towards the shooter would give you better leverage to insert shells
Now that's a new one for me
I misread the title, I thought it read Chair Shotgun...
GET OFF MA LAWN
There are many hunters who pursue many types of game.
Indeed. The chair shotgun was developed for hunting wild Chippendales and Hepplewhites, which were hunted to extinction but can be found as trophies in many grand houses. 😁
"I said take a damn seat!" Blam!
It is nice looking. I'd like to see more about their early gas system, but perhaps surviving examples are too rare to access.
Wow, I realize that pattern-welded ("damascus" even though it's really not) barrels are dangerous with modern ammo, but damn the pattern in that barrel is beautiful.
Incredible piece of history.
At least at that time, the French didn't just make good firearms, they were pioneers of firearm technology.
And yet they rapidly got left in the dust. And never really caught up or become leaders again.
@@clothar23 lol, what?
@@adrien5834 What are you laughing about Francophile boy ? The French have never made anything as successful as the Browning .50 cal , The MG-42 , The M16 Platform , or the AK Platform.
As far as small arms go the French are about as backwater as a Alabama gene pool.
@@clothar23 Personal firearms are completely irrelevant on the modern battlefield, all they need to do is work somewhat. What matters are communications, logistics, battlefield surveillance, transport, and major weapon systems such as tanks, artillery, ships or air assets. The French build all of this on their own. So, yeah, I'm laughing at you, cowboy.
@@adrien5834 Even when it comes to logistical support , armoured assests , naval and air support, and communications the French are still behind powers like the US , Russia , Japan , and even China.
The days of France being a military power are behind them. They can't compete in the small arms industry and their other military assests are left wanting in comparison.
Living in St Etienne, around the 1880's.
Tubular magazine feeding into a cartridge lifter...mmmm seeing shades of the 1886 Lebel
hmm now I wanna see Ian take a look at a Bannerman Model 1896.
It is pretty with that Damascus barrel.
I've noticed that in some archival and museum settings Ian has to handle the piece du jour with surgical or cotton gloves, yet in some cases (such as this), not so much. Wonder what the protocol is?
I wonder if there was a late 1800s rifle that worked like this, but with bullets instead of shells.
Thank you for your content. Always informative always professional thank you gun Jesus
Man that thing is gorgeous. Shame it's not functioning correctly anymore.
Neat design
Welcome to Belgium!
Thanks for keeping my poops entertaining
Loading the cartridges in the stock seems to be a good idea.
That way the gun should be better balanced.
The steel and wood on that piece just oozes top dollar, or top franc.
Interesting thing many of these old damascus barrels \are safe with smokeless powder, I have a remington m1900 double with damascus barrels, that are nitro proofed and I use it every hunting season. Generally if it's a quality firearm, made in the 1890's or later, it was nitro proofed for smokeless powder
OoO Damascus. Pretty. Lot of work though. Especially because the only supposed advantage of Damascus steel is claimed to be maintaining sharpness. Though back then high carbon steel was probably a bit harder to do.
By the late 19th century in Europe there was good consistent industrially-made steel. The only reason to do Damascus/pattern welding for something like this is, I suspect, for looks. And it indeed looks gorgeous (to my eyes, anyway!)
(in earlier times you gain some advantages in blending steels because it's hard to get consistent steels of the carbon content you want; the process not only smooths out inconsistencies but lets you "average" properties of more than one alloy. And for certain things like blades, blending different steels lets you have different alloys on the edge and the spine of the blade if you do it right, though that's not exactly the same process.)
I want this to be fixed so badly !
What kind of checkering pattern would that be on the forearm ?
It looks like one person did a traditional checkering on the grip and another person who didn’t know how to do checkering for the forearm.
Next episode is Ian running three gun with this shotgun dressed as a French noble
Carbine in 7mm mauser? Anyone have more info on that?