Thanks for the reference, had not seen it. Usually the P2O5 method tends to give more stable nitrated products since some sulfonation byproducts are very difficult to remove. The acetic anhydride method has similar advantages. I did some studies at work on this material some years ago. It can be pressed very hard to small gasgenerators etc. Looks like POM plastic.
That's a really good information. I made cellulose nitrate several times with the classic method but it always get some yellow stains that I can't remove. These yellow stains have a leftover after burning while the white cellulose nitrate burns without any leftover. Do you have reaction conditions for the acetic anhydrid method?
The stainless Plate on end has a huge value as information. I estimate, hope, that MHN and tetryl had a same weight. For relevant results. Any way, What is clearly, that NC is weak material. Very information video. Thanks.........:-)
Does this mean the normal cellulose burns cleaner/faster? Or is this just because the microcryslalline cellulose is a powder? I'm especially interested in it not leaving any resedue. Any recommendations which one is better?
Could a dehydrating agent like Calcium Chloride or Calcium Oxide be used instead? *calcium oxide would produce the obvious problem of a precipitate (CaOH), and it is also very exothermic
@@AllChemystery Yeah. I didn't really understand then what "dehydrating property of sulfuric acid" meant. The reason sulfuric acid is needed is because it's one of the few acids powerful enough to make HNO3 act like a base, and nitrate the cotton. Thanks for the video!
WOW ! man this is very good so it is like a single base smokeless powder that can be used to make bullets and can you tell me how much of it is safe to use if i consider it for making a homemade bullet or should i also if it is stronger than black powder or not ??
i think it's burning to quickly to make a gunpowder, on wikipedia i saw that they had to make collodion out of guncotton, and then load it in the bullets"
ruthere99 no. I’m almost 100% sure it detonated. The dent left is pretty deep. The smell in the box was identical to smokeless powder burning. The primary would need to be in contact with the plate and more of it would have been needed.
cannagorilla it is usually the un nitrated cellulose. It presses very well so it makes a great binder and filler. Maybe it could see use as a heart medication but that's unlikely. Sorry for any misunderstanding there.
Thank you for the quick response and clarification. You are easily in the top 5 best Chemist here on RUclips. This obviously being my opinion of course. You should have more viewership and sub's but we know how the bureaucracy is with this platform. I love watching you make the compounds that I can't synthesize either because of laws or my own limitations. Just out of curiosity made a really small amount of regular NC but used 90%+/- cons. HNO3. Used 93.5% H2SO4 which I believe diluted the HNO3. Burned extremely fast and hot. I lit all of it off for the kids along with some fireworks I had left over from the previous 4th of July. They loved it.
thanks for the kind words. i think there's many more chemists on YT far better than me. but i try. i have other videos on vimeo- vimeo.com/energyunleashed which can't be shown here due to restrictions. i have pushed the limit though showing some of the videos i have got up. i dont want to lose this channel like the last one....
cannagorilla you can't. The little water present is sequestered by the P2O5 and this creates phosphoric acid. By the end there can be upto 20% H3PO4 present in the mixture. This does not affect it though but it is ideal to start with as little water as possible.
@@AllChemystery yes I did but mine was not pharmacy grade it was pool filter grade lol. Couldn’t believe they use this stuff for pool filtration. Any ways, I got the same results as you did. It wouldn’t burn completely. The regular cellulose (cotton). Burned extremely fast!
@@chemistryscuriosities way to bring a 4yo conversation back to life!! The second nitration would probably be quite easy to get the extra N attached if you were to try it. The quality of the Cellulose starting material likely wouldn’t affect the end result too much , but obviously the pharma grade would be more ideal.
My reply is a long time late, but the most common lab gloves (latex, nitrile) will spontaneously combust on contact with fuming HNO3. Seems safer to work barehanded but with sodium bicarbonate solution ready at hand.
MysteriusBhoice totally, it would make an excellent powder, possibly even a double base , with the right treatment it would work well. Other Amateurs have experimented with it to good effect.
Thanks for the reference, had not seen it. Usually the P2O5 method tends to give more stable nitrated products since some sulfonation byproducts are very difficult to remove. The acetic anhydride method has similar advantages. I did some studies at work on this material some years ago. It can be pressed very hard to small gasgenerators etc. Looks like POM plastic.
That's a really good information. I made cellulose nitrate several times with the classic method but it always get some yellow stains that I can't remove. These yellow stains have a leftover after burning while the white cellulose nitrate burns without any leftover.
Do you have reaction conditions for the acetic anhydrid method?
The stainless Plate on end has a huge value as information. I estimate, hope, that MHN and tetryl had a same weight. For relevant results. Any way, What is clearly, that NC is weak material. Very information video. Thanks.........:-)
Does this mean the normal cellulose burns cleaner/faster? Or is this just because the microcryslalline cellulose is a powder? I'm especially interested in it not leaving any resedue. Any recommendations which one is better?
Could a dehydrating agent like Calcium Chloride or Calcium Oxide be used instead?
*calcium oxide would produce the obvious problem of a precipitate (CaOH), and it is also very exothermic
No not here. You’d just end up with calcium nitrate.
@@AllChemystery Yeah. I didn't really understand then what "dehydrating property of sulfuric acid" meant. The reason sulfuric acid is needed is because it's one of the few acids powerful enough to make HNO3 act like a base, and nitrate the cotton. Thanks for the video!
What is MCC please explain 👍 What type of compound.
The title! Micro crystalline cellulose
Good Vid i invented a powerful NPED based on MCNC.
works with nitric acid 69%?
WOW ! man this is very good so it is like a single base smokeless powder that can be used to make bullets and can you tell me how much of it is safe to use if i consider it for making a homemade bullet or should i also if it is stronger than black powder or not ??
i think it's burning to quickly to make a gunpowder, on wikipedia i saw that they had to make collodion out of guncotton, and then load it in the bullets"
congrats , you made nitrogen pentoxide
Could this be done using the standard nitration mixture? 98% H2SO4 and 68% HNO3? Or is the P2O5 with RFNA important
It can be done with a standard mixture. I just wanted to show a different method
However you won’t get as high N percentage as this method.
Is it possible that the MCNC did not detonate and could the dent in your witness plate have been just from the primary?
ruthere99 no. I’m almost 100% sure it detonated. The dent left is pretty deep. The smell in the box was identical to smokeless powder burning. The primary would need to be in contact with the plate and more of it would have been needed.
Nice work!
do you know why they use MCNC in pharma production? Why not use un-nitrated MCC
cannagorilla it is usually the un nitrated cellulose. It presses very well so it makes a great binder and filler. Maybe it could see use as a heart medication but that's unlikely. Sorry for any misunderstanding there.
Thank you for the quick response and clarification. You are easily in the top 5 best Chemist here on RUclips. This obviously being my opinion of course. You should have more viewership and sub's but we know how the bureaucracy is with this platform.
I love watching you make the compounds that I can't synthesize either because of laws or my own limitations.
Just out of curiosity made a really small amount of regular NC but used 90%+/- cons. HNO3. Used 93.5% H2SO4 which I believe diluted the HNO3. Burned extremely fast and hot. I lit all of it off for the kids along with some fireworks I had left over from the previous 4th of July. They loved it.
thanks for the kind words. i think there's many more chemists on YT far better than me. but i try. i have other videos on vimeo- vimeo.com/energyunleashed which can't be shown here due to restrictions. i have pushed the limit though showing some of the videos i have got up. i dont want to lose this channel like the last one....
How do you keep the P2O5 from reacting with the little bit of H2O in the HNO3?
cannagorilla you can't. The little water present is sequestered by the P2O5 and this creates phosphoric acid. By the end there can be upto 20% H3PO4 present in the mixture. This does not affect it though but it is ideal to start with as little water as possible.
AllChemystery Thanks
cannagorilla did you attempt this? You get a great result with regular cellulose as well.
@@AllChemystery yes I did but mine was not pharmacy grade it was pool filter grade lol. Couldn’t believe they use this stuff for pool filtration. Any ways, I got the same results as you did. It wouldn’t burn completely. The regular cellulose (cotton). Burned extremely fast!
@@chemistryscuriosities way to bring a 4yo conversation back to life!!
The second nitration would probably be quite easy to get the extra N attached if you were to try it. The quality of the Cellulose starting material likely wouldn’t affect the end result too much , but obviously the pharma grade would be more ideal.
6:36 ya gonna snort that LOL
Your hands look alittle bit dry and acid burnt. You could use some glove brother. Thanks for the video
My reply is a long time late, but the most common lab gloves (latex, nitrile) will spontaneously combust on contact with fuming HNO3. Seems safer to work barehanded but with sodium bicarbonate solution ready at hand.
@@FenrirTheFenrisWolf I read that butyl rubber gloves stand up to nitric acid. FWIW.
you would have to granulate it to produce smokeless powder!!
MysteriusBhoice totally, it would make an excellent powder, possibly even a double base , with the right treatment it would work well.
Other Amateurs have experimented with it to good effect.
6:40 That's how I like my coke
slow burn might as well be nitrated char