Goodbye Lethality! - Welcome AP? (Senna changes on PBE)
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2024
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Good thing is you can close your eyes and build anything on senna now, bad thing is its senna
Except on-hit attack speed
@@Hizsoo all the new senna players are gonna get baited and build guinsoos as it's the only hybrid item available then cry that the assassin one shot them
"Bad thing is its senna"
Yeah bro try not to be racist challenge, u failed
@@sharanmanivannan6677
- Imagine! Hybrid builds are good.
- Really? Are they?
- No, but imagine it!
@@folkenbergeryou failed interpretation classes.
Just weird to have a champ with a passive that gives her ADC stats get pushed towards AP and enchanter builds
Riot genius moment on top of genius design
Old champions had pretty non-trivial/open design, you could take many champions either ap, ad tank or whatnot. Now new champion seems to have a setplay and if you stray from it it just breaks apart completly. I for one liked the old design philosophy, I used to play AP Yi and ho boy was that stuff fun. Now Yi is just the generic auto-attacker. Maybe some people like it more when there's an obvious way to build a champ, but I personnaly like it better when it's ambiguous
@@charlesleninja I’m all for champs have many build paths, but sennas passive makes it so that no matter what you build, you’re still getting adc stats. Feel like they could rework her passive a bit (maybe adaptive force instead of ad?) to make ap/enchanter seem more enticing.
@@charlesleninja It was more fun back then. Champ weren't designed with a lane in their mind, they just had an idea of a character look and gave it a kit that fit the idea and the community had to figure out where the champ would be played. Now it's let's create a top laner that scales like a mage but is close range with loads of dashes and true damages. I just randomly said things for a kit but that's pretty much how they do, they create a thing they think they haven't tried yet and after stuck it a look design that also fits things they think they haven't done yet.
@@KontrolYT
I dont think they need to change the ability for that though. I will reuse my old Master Yi example. Yi could be played Ap because he had a scaling on his Q ability, he worked super well with it and with his W ability wfor which the healing also scaled with Ap. Yet he was mainly played as an Right-CLick Attacker. His W ability wasn't very great for him in that state, it mainly just gave him some armor and magic resist while channeling it (he didn't heal based on missing Hit POints like he does now) are arguably he healed more on lifesteal than on his W at pretty much any point of the game. And he was a very well fonctionning champion. It was ok for champions to not use fully all of their abilities. When they reworked him they changed his W so it would be useful even if you didn't go Ap (because you couldn't anymore). Some alternative ways to use champions even were using only 1 or 2 abilities. Old Ap Sion could only use his Q and his W, his E gave him bonus attack dommage at the cost of HP per hit and his R gave him lifesteal and attack speed, both practicaly useless, you were better off not leveling his R (crazy thing to write). Now they want a champion to fully use all of their ability all the time (maybe it's better that way, but I don't think a champion needs 4 abilities to thrive, it's ok for champions to only need 1 or 2 to be ok), for example they changed Ezreal W to make it more "consistent". It used to be a projectile that went through all units and damage all enemy champion and give attack speed to ally champions, it only scaled with Ap. Adc Ezreal couldn't use much of the ability (I would argue he could use it very well as he could E inside his own W to give himself bonus attack speed) so they gutted it and with it I argue also gutted Ap Ezreal (Think of a mini R ability he could spam, with similar damage, he had his weaknesses as he didn't have waveclear but now he still has that weakness and he lost that strenght). Nunu W used to give him and an ally bonus attack speed and movement speed, worthless for jungle, so people used to play him support for that ability, but then support his Q which was very mich the same then became useless, there was no way to fully use him in any playstyle. Nunu and Ezreal were both used by Tapei Assassins to win Season 2 World Championship, champions were strong even with useless abilities tacked on them.
Sorry if the response is a bit long, but I really wanted to provide examples to give weight to my argument
TL;DR Champions with useless abilities for their build were strong in the past but now the design team is afraid to maybe have a weak ability on a champion and it ruins the design openness in my opinion (Maybe I'm just a boomer also i don't know)
Oh so senna is now a wizzard.
Wait a minute....
I smell black magic
black magic
A gun wizard
*witch
@@vincentiusmarioslametprako5569i thought it was cannon?
I think that riot should Rework her passive if they want to bring her to a enchanter support role, her passive giving range, crit and AD while your itemization is completely AP just feels off...If they could figure out something for her Passive to co-work together with the buffs i think it could definitely work better.
It's giving more base AD though, isn't it? And they just buffed the Q to be 40% base AD. So her passive is only going to make her better.
@@Dyanosis I do agree with the AD part, but the crit just feels out of place, she's gonna get, life steal after cap(longer games), ad, crit dmg and building full AP practically...It just feels too much at the same time that feels like its all over the place, i feel like they could give her adaptive DMG instead of simply AD and Crit. If they really want to move her out of a damage oriented role, i think they should do something that is more inclined to be a enchanter or a dmg enchanter like Renata and Seraphine.
I feel like if they could give her as instead of crit it would work better for enchanter based senna, she could get her Q's faster that way (though they did also decrease her as gain so it sounds weird)
Make it give adaptive force instead of AD and if AF is AP her attacks have slight AP on hit like varus
@@thoreamoechi3533 but my crit senna Sadge
Champion with a GIANT GUN
Riot: build ap please 😎
To be fair it's a gun made of magic stones and fueled by fury with is basically mental power
It's practically one giant staff shaped like a gun
Reminds me of Tacticle Breach Wizards
Tbf Luden's Companion is literally a gun.
TBF, in this Universe, it seems most guns are Magic Fueled(Hextech, Runic or just Catalyst for it). Gunpowder Guns are almost found exclusively on Bilgewater.
Meanwhile Katarina with literal knives being able to build ap, and also Talon having mana, even to his skills are just jumping and throwing weapons.
man alistar is a huge minotaur that just headbutts and slam the ground with pure physical prowess but only does magic damage
Ive been playing AP senna for years and peaked diamond 2. This buff is so huge for my build that I cant believe how dominating im going to be.
Drop ur builds i wanna play this
@@brandongouveia8198+1
Please share.
@@brandongouveia8198 simple I just go locket into redemption or mejai if I get the stacks on my dark seal.
Same I started dabbling in AP and Support enchanter build and its already surprisingly potent. She's gonna spike so much harder now albeit I hate the attack speed nerf since I play her farming carry as well.
I dont know, i kinda liked the idea of an adc support but now she is becoming more and more of an enchanter
When she first released the first 2 weeks the build for her was enchanter, then everyone start building here ADC and imo lost every charm she had. But that's just me because I love her enchanter build
@@Xroix1193 Maybe for you, but I have seen people build regular adc items and lethality day 1.
It is like when people played Naafiri jungle instead of mid.
great news riot are coming to their senses
@@Xroix1193I and many others were day 1 ADC Senna enjoyers. I saw very few Enchanter Senna builds.
@@chaotixthefox Yes, real day1 Senna players played her as ADC or Mid (they don't care what Riot said), then Riot had to change her passive that she needed friend around in lane (can't be mid anymore), but people still didn't give up and played her ADC instead of support, then Riot again, changed her to not be able to CS anymore
idk how to feel about this. I liked Senna because of the possibility of having an hybrid supp/adc and that's what made her quite special in that role. If they really push her into a monodimensional character (even if it becomes the strongenst enchanter in the game) i would be a bit dissappointed
I don't think AD senna is dead, this just means that lethality builds in particular are just nor for her anymore. If anything, with this changes she can step even further into a hydrid marksman/enchanter because now she can adapt to what her team needs on the run without becoming useless.
@@mxp4se This is how Senna USED To be played back then, you would go Holy grail and umbral, and for full damage builds you always went for crit items, Lethality scalings were added to her kit with the coming of Mythic items since the only mythic she could use was Heavily nerfed cause it was broken (Kraken/guinsoo meta) So she moved to lethality builds to be able to use Eclipse as a mythic, but before mythics Senna used to build stuff like Manamune and redemption together
@mxp4se well If they keep like this they will make her full enchanter which I hope is not the case
@@mxp4se lethality senna still deals damage, go damage if you want to deal damage, go ap/support if you want to support
@@Bamboagodosh there is literally no reason to go lethality after this changes
Wasn't Senna's whole thing about how she can build AD because she's a pseudo ADC? Like she could be ADC or Support?
She still can though.
They even buffed some of her AD scalings and the passiv nerf(crit) is insanely small. Sure, her AS is lower but if you go a Senna with AD, CDR and Crit, you'll not feel much of a damage difference.
@@lubue5795 they are clearly trying to push her as a support. This is just probably the beginning to make her a generic enchanter
@@manuelbonelli3690 this is actually a step Back to how she used to be, Senna used to be played with enchanter items combined with some utility ad items (Umbral, Manamune, RFC) but you always added stuff like Grail and redemption to builds so you would play a hit-run-heal style of gameplay, you would do quick trades with Q and autos (Back then Glacial used to exist too) charge up grail and then heal up your adc for half their HP, building full damage was an option and you went for lethality or crit, but her lethality build was heavily pushed for after mythics came out and Kraken/Guinsoo Senna became a thing and was gutted (and for good reason) her only viable mythic was Eclipse, so they pushed her into heavy lethality builds, but lately they want to bring back crit Senna AND hybrid enchanter Senna
@@manuelbonelli3690 You do know that Senna has for her entire life time jump between support and ADC as her main role, right? She was always better in one of her two role and that wasn't always ADC but support as well at times. There's really no reason to suspect that Riot would now suddenly gut her in one of the two roles when they've never done so in the past, despite how problematic she was as a pick in proplay and SoloQ.
@@lubue5795 they said so themselves that they want to make her more support than she currently is
As a Senna Otp I would be so pissed if these changes get through. I don’t wanna play another healdrone with zero damage.
Well, you could still do damage as AP but you would lose all the Lethality damage.
same man, those changes suck ass
@@Deus_Te_Ama_Muito Well the update would force you into building ap support items. AD will just be worse on her
I'm also a Senna otp.. Idk what they were thinking when making these changes, like they wanna take everything that is unique to her and throw it in the garbage.
@bypwass i haven't heard a single senna main be happy about this and all the positively just seems to be coming from people who've never touched the champ looking in saying oh yea this is good.
I like the idea of adding more Hybrid champs, but i belive better hybrid items should be the first step
But why? It's already hard enough to itemize, as a tank/bruiser, against teams that build hybrid (or even teams that have both strong AD and strong AP). Do you just build health and be called a troll because building armor means you suck against the AP champs or building MR means you get 1-tapped by the assassins? There's no happy medium for items anyway.
@@Dyanosis I don't get your point.
As you said, you already have to itemize against both so adding more hybrid champs will not change what you build at all, will it? Besides, teams should always have a good mix of physical and magic damage and tanks are designed around that. The game is literally not meant to have only one damage type on a team, as that makes many tanks just straight up OP (Ramms or Malph vs full AD for example)
If you think that tanks and bruisers are not tanky enough right now, that has nothing to do with hybrid champs. It simply means that you feel the game has too much damage in general.
or we could have champs with multiple viable builds? If you have hybrid items there is no ap/ad build there is only the correct build with the hybrid items.
Senna is becoming Sona 0.5
Nice, I love Sona
Its not that heal build beging on senna when helia coming into the game LUL and now a lot of ppl make pikatchu face
@@polrychlik8570Learn English before commenting
Except Senna gets more range, and Sona gets more movement speed.
@@Helloing69 senna q can heal every 15 seconds (doesnt get lower CD with levels) and shield every eighty seconds. That is not like sona lmao
as a senna main, i wonder how the as change will feel when playing, i hope it's not too bad. perhaps picking up a attack speed item will be more worthwhile.
that said having another build path will allow her to be a safer early pick. since at least now if the enemy team goes heavy armor tanks or assassins, you could just change runes and item plan and be a enchanter.
i played senna mostly coz enchamter supps are boring as well as tanksupports, and if yours adc sucked, you can acually be adc and go big.
this sound like theyre taking away most of reason why i played her so much and liked that scaling
(i might be wrong andap senna gonna fun as hell, but that attack speed lowerd really hurts me)
I think lichbane senna has some comedic potential now
@@MrKacha But these changes don't even nerf AD supp Senna at all with all the compensations she got, they simply opened the AP enchanter path for her. Your AD build is safe and prob will be stronger next patch either way. These are just ADC nerfs but buffs to any supp build (excluding lethality).
Doesn't this mean Umbral Glaive is gonna be _even more_ useless?
No lethality scaling on healing, as a support item this might not be worth it.
Though I'm all for AP buffs, I feel like this will change the playstyle based on items a lot.
(they definitely have to change the passive a bit to make it work with AP style too, such as adaptive instead of just AD)
4:48 : you survived that Lee Sin right?
lmao, as senna ? no way brother 😂
wont stop T1 from making guma play her 💀
The comment i was looking for
I mean Keria is arguably about as good ADC as Guma some champions so you know no big deal xD
Ah the enchanter katarina
>Lethality scaling removed from her heal
they finally did it holy shit
she finally has to GIVE UP SOMETHING to get a benefit. If you want to heal, you HAVE to lose damage
thank fuck
I like this. Originally RIOT presented her as a „depending on game build AP for heals/shields and AD for dmg“ but she was just always the damage part. I‘d like it if you actually had the choice now
Can you fact check 1:53 the AP scaling on Q slow. The tooltip says “0.1%” which is 100x less than “10%”
He said 10% per 100 AP, that's where the factor of 100 comes from. It got me confused as well. But there is still a difference, as one scaling is incremental and the other continuous.
I understand that its a increase of possible itemization, but also it kinda breaks some fundamantal concept pillars, with the removal of lethality scaling and going full on the ap, making the Gun support lady stop buing more instruments to blast the shadow ilands instead buy the same staves and charms as a Senna or Soraka, its just not the same flavor.
At that point they could also remove pykes Lethality and bonus AD to grey health scaling to make him build regular catcher armor items instead. Its just an immersion break
Senna was primarily building lethality items before they put lethality scalings into her kit. And those were only added after mythic items which have since been removed. Lethality is still a powerful stat on her as it is the stat that defines most AD casters. There's a reason hardly any champion has them. Senna and Pyke were the only exceptions. Senna's was only meant as a numbers band-aid after mythic items. Pyke is an entirely different story. He used to literally work like you described without any lethality scalings. However, tank bruiser Pyke ended up terrorizing the rift without building a single assassin item while still dealing the same damage due to his passive. He was supposed to be the "support assassin" but he turned into a broken tank bruiser. They tried many things to change that but nothing worked. It became so bad that they had to turn him into the first-ever champion with lethality scalings to force him into lethality builds and kill all his broken builds for good. Pyke had to go through many different changes because he kept finding ways to break the game. If you see something odd on Pyke's kit then chances are it's a necessary limiter that was placed there for a reason. He's very much an exception case.
I really wish they would stop giving champs arbitrary hybrid scaling without items to compliment it or any proper design thoughts behind it
What would be proper design thoughts in your opinion?
I think being flexible in builds and playstyles is good for the game and any items to give both ap and ad would destroy this option, as they would always be too strong on hybrid skalers, thus the scaling would be nerved and the flexibility be lost.
@@smiley-man3381 The point they're making is that many champions are AD only champions for example. but one of their 4 abilties will randomly only scale with AP, which will never be a build flex option for them, making the design thoughts behind it bad. It's harder to help the balance state of a champion when you can't even see what their potential is with items/damage because some of their kit just doesn't function with the rest of their designed items or playstyles
@@SuperbFairy Yeah exactly. At this point it would be healthier for the game if each champion was either AD, AP, or tank stat scaling. It would give the devs a baseline to always work with to ease their time on balancing.
@@smiley-man3381 Because Senna scales with AP but still does physical damage. So... you build armor against someone who's building AP? Literally the only champion where this is a thing. Teemo's damage is based on whichever is higher. And other champions that have this type of "scaling" always tend to flip their damage type based on which stat they have the higher of.
It just literally makes no sense.
@@SuperbFairy I believe it is intentional to have an ability scale with ap only, as a way to be able to control the champs damage more easily
I mean, Riot has been trying to brute force her into the support role ever since her release, even if players went as far as conjuring a whole new botlane playstyle just to be able to play her as a pseudo ADC, after playing her as a traditional ADC became more and more unviable. This way she can at least operate as a somewhat proper enchanter in soloQ, not just a second ADC on lane who provides no value as a support whatsoever.
I have tried playing Senna as an AP enchanter support off and on so I'm really happy to see this
Omg it's verlis!
There are so many things that need to be fixed, i doubt Senna was one of them.
I'm a fan of finding Runaans in the enchanter build to get huge CD refunds on Q
Me at 1:10 - "the heal scaled with lethality?!"
There goes my 2 million points down the drain
The fact that you have low cd on Q if you are able to aa and that Q heals way more with some enchanter items is crazy. Echoes of Helia synergize sounds too good for me.
Hi Vandiril
I encountered a bug in swarm
I was playing Xayah on the first map on story mode (first difficulty) and I managed to one shot Rek'Sai tunnel just as she spawned it in and it caused her to stay stuck as if she had her tunnel up and I was unable to kill her because Rek'Sai was invincible
I’m so fucking glad they cucked her ad scaling and her damage. Late game senna was practically thanos. You have a shroud that defeats point and click abilities. A auto range that crits with lethality an hits from half a lane. AND IT SLOWS so you are never catching that little shitter
i'm believing this is the entrance for Sword of Blossoming Dawn on the game(the on-hit heal item) for this typo support champs (senna now, taric, possibly lulu... ETC), if not its a lilttle suspicious that they putted on AP senna for any reason(basically cuz its not that worth on general if doesn't have guinsoo or shojin to spam Q)
Ap ratio buff on the slow of q seems a litte bit much. Maybe riot thinks people still wouldn't build ap just for the other ratio buffs. That slow will be stronger if you start building ap instead of ad, even if they don't increase it
Anything that tries to push her away from ADC builds is welcome. She gets so much range and damage that the only counterplay she has is to one shot her
I also really like thaty they lowered her attack speed, it just didnt make sense that someone with that big cannon could attack so fast
Time to see tons of AP Senna in Aram using Malignance and all those other support items or AP scaling stuff.
The DPS we needed ❌
The Healer/Shielder we needed ✅
Jokes aside this actually makes her actually able to benefit off Mandate and other stuff you normally don't get for her like Ardent/Staff. Like AP Lucian now it's AP Senna.
riot: we're gonna get unique and make a ADC whos actually a support style
also riot: no shes a sustain enchanter healing support
maybe this is opening the door for flicker x rageblade, maybe with some collector burn strats. honestly, though, this is a tank senna buff.
Ardent censer is very interesting first now because it gives AS both to adc and senna which in turn allows her to cast q more, also the bonus on hit is very nice also its cheap and the move speed gives her stick potential in addition to her passive MS steal
So to get more healing on her Q you can ignore every damage scaling she has?
1m Senna Mastery here, have been begging for them to take away the lethality scaling ever since they put it in. I don't think this is quite the change she needs but it's getting there. We only got lethality due to the item shop changes from years ago and having every single mythic item interaction nerfed besides the assassin lethality mythics. We're still paying for bad balance decisions from almost 4+ years ago.
I think people underestimate how good this is.
You aren't supposed to build full AP Senna. These changes make it so that you can grab something that actually increases her enchanter outputs, like Helia's or Ardent Censer, without being troll.
You should still probably build an AD/crit item or two, but Ardent giving you on-hit damage and attack speed every time you press Q is super good.
With reduced AS and Crit chance, ad and crit items are basically useless for her. Better just go full sup route.
@@userunnamed5204 the reduced crit chance just means you dont overcap as fast and waste stats. And a slight attackspeed hit for the massive slow and heal increase is more than fine
I don't understand why no one is talking about a nashor's, lich build. Probably into cosmic, cryptbloom, rabadon. 80% AP ratio heal is the highest heal on any basic ability in the game. On top of the fact that it's an aoe heal and a self heal. With those items tho you could maintain good damage while also abusing new healing, shielding, as well as AP ms scaling on E and AP slow scaling on Q.
Exactly my thoughts @@gilsercrow3590
@@tosfriendly but you dıdnt waste ıt any way senna got lıfe steal based on how much overcapped crıt she had
Reducing the free crit she gets is massive. Just wish they'd also reduce the scaling on her range, but I guess that will probably slow down with the lower attack speed too
It's a really just compensating for the new 25% crit items
It would literally kill her. Senna is one if not the most squishy champ of lol, make her expose more = her would be useless, because it would die before do nothing. So no, AA range is not negotiable.
@@agus_beckly6843 She really isn't. She has one of the lowest hp pools, but her base armor is one of the best for ranged champions, her mr is average, and she has self peel
@@AidanWR yeah, with no mobility and low hp, armor and mr means nothing, at least the amount that she has. I don't know, I think it would be a mistake touch her range, when you can jump on and destroy her with any diver or assasing champ
@@agus_beckly6843 The same is true for almost any ADC, and it takes her only 60 stacks to get more base range than Caitlyn. Plus, she does have mobility, which also camos her. Yeah, you can still see where she is, but you can't target her
I think they're not trying to kill ad Senna but instead they dont really want her to be a carry and at the same tine a support. Now she has to choose
I always hated Senna for being a hidden ADC in the support role with cheap lethality, glad to see they're finally making her something healthy or has to pay an actual price for her dmg
with lethality item changes most people dont build that much lethality anymore instead they were building eon ldr and rfc with some people going more as route with kraken etc and i think right now riot wants people to build adc items hence why they nerfed the crit rate from her passive
They nerfed it by 2%. Building IE is still going to be a good purchase. It's not like they nerfed it to 2%.
As a Senna otp, changes are nice finally we have enchanter senna but passive might be rework too
Another design failure by Riot
Not even close
Nah, rek sai is at its peak failure design
The things they don't fail at are actually a much shorter list
Reksai is fine design wise, shes not toxic to play against which is more than you can say about 75% of newly released champs. @@BinhVux
Senna was a design failure on release. They have no clue what to do with her.
touching myseIf rn to the idea of ap senna..
Gooner
Senna can be lethal if you know what you're doing, if not, you're screwed...
ive never ever prayed for PBE changes not to go live as much as i do now
Fun fact Sena auto attack and Q can ignore Yasu wind wall
Because it's a laser, that's right.
Looks like they want to shift her back as a support that can turn into an ADC late game.
ok so u are telling me riot made 2 ad support champs...pyke and senna..and they just decided, lets make one of them ap, because its not like we already have 10 ap enchanter supports...right..
yeah their balance team lost the plot on a lot of their champs, and now just make random changes to show to their bosses that they're doing stuff for the game
To be fair, the other AP supports suck when it comes to putting out raw DPS. At least Senna is putting out actual attack damage and her Q is pretty good for shooting through targets.
But they didn't nerf any of her AD scalings. They removed a lethality scaling so they want her to actually build the ADC items instead of the assassin items that give lethality. Sure, the AS nerf hurts a bit but she always had low AS and was more about one single long range auto that chunks the carry, instead of stutterstepping with 2.5 AS. So, this is not making her into an AP champ at all. Simple means the various support items that give AP are no longer troll to build on her.
Lore wise itd be cool to see her and Lucian be a viable lane. Need to change that passive tho and i dont think they should remove her damage threat. A more burst oriented build that has shields and a little healing would be cool.
I honestsly thought the extra scaling on Senna's Q was a bonus health ratio rather than lethality. She's always had decent AP scaling, but these buffs are pretty cool for raw healing and shielding. I don't think this is gonna change the default lethality build that everyone goes; people like playing damage-dealing supports too much
I liked the first senna where it was like this again you could build for damage or peel. I thought it was really different until it became better adc.
i think nashers plus navory with full ap would be really crazy
honestly it would be quite cool if you could build senna more enchanter with AP or more damage with AD
I’d be tempted to throw a Navori into the build just to have Q up even more.
You know, it would be pretty cool to play off the hybrid theme with actual unique stat interactions;
perhaps the real keystone for this new angle is giving a connection or play between Crit and Heal/Shield on her passive, and allowing heals to crit.
That way, you could still build crit like IE, Navori, Essence, RFC, or Ruunans
AND support items like Ardent, Echoes, Mandate, Flowing Water, Moonstone, and Dawncore.
More build variety is super fresh and should be encouraged on any champion.
It's sad to see that there isn't a more unique take on the changes
like some have suggested, similar stat conversions to Jhin's passive relating to AS, H&S, Crit could go a long way.
I doubt that anyone wants to see ADC Senna snowball and demolish a game with full build enchanter items by 16 minutes, that's pretty obvious,
but we should all agree it'd be way cooler to let the Marksman Enchanter build items from each class and have it work,
rather than being forced down a single shop page to be useful, especially when you can still make mistakes with some of those items already.
H&S from buying Crit
Crit from buying Mana Regen (not providing more H&S)
AS combined into passive's on-hit bonus damage, to scale value of on-hit effects.
Would Rylai's work well with her buffed Q slow AP ratios?
I guess hitting Q over half the screen with a double slow would be sort of disgusting.
Muramana mana build; all ap items with mana have like 25 ability haste, and malignance has that AND 20 to ult cd. you have ludens gun and blackfire torch for more scale... and hexplate if you wana get ult to 30s.
may not be viable; but I have fun running it.
2:30 best build now: heartstel+overlord+rift+nashor+ cosmic+maybe (forgot name - tank slowing spelblade) -> max annoying
i like it because it really brings her back in like with her support identity. Her previous identity was kinda toxic because its a support that doesnt play like support, she's just another adc that happened to have a heal in her kit, this way she is gonna actually be a supportive champion more focused around her cc, healing, and shielding which I like. I feel like the only people who hate these changes are the people who pick support because it's the easiest role, but don't actually want to play as a support champion so they just pick senna to take kills and carry games solo, even though it's the SUPPORT role. If you want to be carrying you should be going adc, mid or jungle, but I like that senna is still going to be able to scale and do damage solely on that, and in the future it opens her up to hybrid builds in the future, which are usually not good. Overall seems like decent changes but the senna mains are gonna be crying for a long time because they cant stall a game for 40 minutes to get 7000 ad and attack range and "outplay" everyone by pressing the funny right click attack
I think this might be a setup for enchanter changes that shifts gameplay into more how it Is in arena. I Think on hit scaling with heal and shield power will be the future of support. It will allow more skill expression aswell
This is a question overall, why do they not give characters spells with a max scale?
As example Senna, to keep her W CC unproblematic as ADC you could give it an AP scaling (the CC) that maxes out at 2.25 seconds CC
This could make so many characters available in different roles (where they want to be by riot) but giving them the advantage of being in the role with benefits´, while the other roles arnt going out of hand!
As a Senna main who also plays her enchanter in the current patch the ultimate is gonna be broken late game as the shield is almost 1k shield in the live patches not in PBE .. In addition to that Senna AD is no longer a good choice to be played more like a troll specially after the remove of the lethality scaling on her Q for heal gave her and her team the chance to deal damage and sustain pretty well but now that it is removed playing lethality Senna is more like beneficial to Senna only which also makes her as any mage support (not a real support)
The build will be more like (Moonstone - Dawncore - Imperial Mandate) as core items and the last item will be situational depending on the ally team composition (not the enemy team composition anymore) also the ult will need to be nerfed as late game with enchanter build is barely 60 seconds which is a guaranteed win fight and the only option to be countered will be by serpent's fang on the enemy ad champs (unless somehow riot decides to make anti shield ap item)
So basically she is like Kai'sa now. People have no idea what to build but it is somehow going to work out.
I never understood the lethality scaling on her Q. Felt really weird just having that float around.
Kai'sa doesn't die 1v1 against tanks, Senna has the same problem as Jhin Against tanks composition, She lacks of DPS and she can't Kite as good as a regular ADC
@@Deus_Te_Ama_Muito Senna is like Kai'sa in terms of item builds. That's what I said.
I didn't mean they are both the same character archetype.
I'm sort of new, but how I see it is that because sadly because they refuse to include any incentive in her Auto attacks/passive to build AP, lethality will still probably be the best build, and she'll just be a worse champ with no actual compensation now. I guess this does have the chance to open her up as a sort of flex champ where she can either go heal or DPS.
But her kit revolves around auto-attacking, even if you want to be a healer [15 second Q CD that doesn't go down in levels, and gets CD shaved for hitting autos]. If she had innate AP scaling damage on her 2nd hit passive or something, then maybe she could fully commit to focusing on AP. But if she doesn't do damage on her autos she's going to have a lot of downtime in fights where she's just useless. Her E doesn't provide any real util mid-teamfight (only engage and disengage) and while her W buff is nice it's also a pretty long CD (11 seconds, doesn't go down with levels) which loops back around to the same problem. She can Auto-Q-W-Auto and then she has to auto 5-10x depending on the teamfight pace to get another heal. With the nerfed attack speed that's going to make it even slower.
I feel like riot doesn't really know wtf they're doing. PBE testing is okay, but I think to actually see effectiveness we'll need to see it tested on real ping in higher MMR.
Also love the amount of comments I'm seeing across all platforms seeing this as a nerf and saying "good". Where are you in my soloq games? People soft int me for picking Senna support because it's 'not a real champion'. So which is it?
The problem with this is it hurts senna players who enjoy going lethality. If they want to do this they can just make her passive adaptive ie(if more ap than ad her passive would instead give ap, and the crit given would be heal and shield power instead) this would allow for both play styles without diminishing her lethality build so much. Whether it be a one shotting you from across the map at 40 mins or healing someone to full every 10s, i hope she can keep her identity as a scaling marksman support.
They are deliberately gutting lethality because they don't like how it gets played in pro games :/
Not seeing the problem. Its like saying "the delinquents in school wont like the change".
ahh finally, they wont think im trolling with redemption anymore
Senna wasn’t slippery enough already, so we made her able to use zhonyas now
I honestly don't like these changes. I'm not playing Senna mutch but I am a support main. If I want to play enchanter, I have a million options, if I want to play mage, I have 100 options, if I want to play tank I also have 10000 options, but if I want to play AD range I only have one option... And that option is taken away. Guess is time for lethality Ashe as the only AD range viable support.
I don’t mind this direction, it kinda forces senna players to choose whether they are playing a healer or a dps instead of getting both at the same time
I could see the build being starting AP, then building AD items as the game progresses and you get crit chance and attack range from souls. Infinity edge towards the late game to make your aas hit as hard as your heals.
So they are keeping the promise after all? Bless! They originally SAID they would always orioritize her being an enchanter over ADC and even gut her ADC if it got out of hand, but they didn't.
This was a long time coming.
Senna was my first OTP and first time I reached plat. I will miss her.
Holy shit if they bring back hybrid scaling things are going to be FUN.
Why transform "ADC" in mage suport?
She was made to be a support, not an ADC. She was supposed to be paired with Lucian even as a team.
Im ok with lethality heal scaling removal but not attack speed change
I think the change will get reverted
Every character is either recieving ad/ap scaling. Meanwhile us mordekaiser mains still only do ap damage with a giant ass mace.
Can't wait to build her exactly how I build Seraphine
i wish senna would scale with only AP, and actualy still be a option for carry.
her passive making her auto attacks scale with AP, her passive spirits giving AP insted of AD.
though this would mean her bonus heal on AP needs to be scaled down to 40 or 50% sinds she would now have infinite scaling on AP.
this would give her a place as a healing agressive support or a APC bot lane, being the first true AP marksman.
cant wait to see liandry full tank senna on top lane with extreme sustain and poke
Guinsoo's probably wouldn't be that bad given the AD and AP on the item, as well as the ramping attack speed. Attack speed will give you more chances to use your buffed heal in fights through its passive cooldown.
Oh, good, I can finally use the AP support item with her again.
After this I'm never gonna touch on the my favorite ADC champions again...
Hooray, my troll builds won't be a troll build.
Dude, building Navori and going for support itens right after? That's gonna blow up
1:06 wanna see what happens if the AP slow scaling doesn’t change. Does that mean it’d be possible to do 100% slow at 850 AP?
In practice, if we assume a champion's speed to be 385 (covering our bases by slightly overestimating an average of 340, +45 from most T2 boots), then the first optimal AP breakpoint for slowing is ~280.
There is an initial "soft cap" for speed decreases at 220 movement speed, which is achieved by calculating 385 * (1 - (0.15 + (0.001 * 280))) = 385 * (1 - (0.15 + 0.28)) = 385 * (1 - 0.43) = 385 * 0.57 = 219.45
Any champion reduced to 220 MS is going to be having a difficult time kiting OR chasing in a meaningful capacity.
This is obviously not taking into account the effects of other increases or decreases to MS, but it is a useful benchmark / milestone.
I am thinking of a Perma Q Spam build
Helia, Runnans and Black Cleaver
Every auto of runaans reduces the CD of Q by 3 seconds, Aoe armor shred with BC and good heals from Helia
recently heard i0ki mention smth like this on a video, that's crazy
The main complaint about Kaisa is the ability to build anything and be effective, replicating this with senna will only replicate the same frustrations
Well. Shit.
Pushing more power on her enchanter kit +her infinite scaling is going to be tough.
But it looks like they acounted for this and slowed her sclaing. But damm senna at 30 mins was rough before, now senna at 35 mins is going to be a true nightmare.
Tho i am glad that we might get a better early against her.
But damm lategame is going to be even more hard.
I mostly just like the idea of dark seal on ad being better
Cost of her DPS? I think they just found my gameplay of Poke Senna form a while back...
Senna is already frightening if you get Manamune with other Mana/AP items, but now she is just gonna poke people out of lane by outhealing...
This is how I always envisioned senna being played
Her healing attributes have AP scaling
her Q is basically soraka W from now
support items with a guinsoos for ad ap and atk speed, so she can spam her q non stop
That AP healing scaling is getting SO nerfed. No enchanter has those scalings to shielding or healing