Just had someone send me this video. ruclips.net/video/czsAZ2US7Ew/видео.html wow you can watch only the first 4 minutes. The 0350s fail from only hand preasure... Here’s another one ruclips.net/video/34VArHjQUDk/видео.html
I'm curious on what you ever did with your knives did you send them back to ZT? After watching your video I tried the same thing with my zero tolerance's.. 7 out of 8 of them had lock failure. The only one that did not is the 804cf. I ended up taking my nights apart and pushing the lock bar over some and not only did the lock cease to fail they now actually lock up super tight and secure. I'm still very curious on what you do with yours thanks I appreciate the videos
@@ambulldog111 My 0804cf fails, as well as five others. Waiting to hear back from zt. If they don't properly address the problem, I'll go ahead and move the lockbars over.
Very well explained and reasoned, and very much looking forward to the response. It indicates a very common rule in life - the louder something (or someone) claims to be tough, the less likely that is to be true.
I guess I never really use the spine of my knives like a hammer... I tend to use hammers for hammering and knives for cutting. This just isn't a problem even for a hard use knife. This is like using your knife as a screwdriver and complaining that the tip of the blade is messed up
Not to mention there's no pressure against the frame when he holds it the way he does.... When you hold a knife the correct way your hands going to be holding the frame lock which would probably be even less likely to break loose.
I own 3 ZTs (301, 460, and 770). Just finished doing this test on them and thankfully had no issues at all. Even hit the spine harder than in the video.
So after watching this video I went and did the same thing to my Zero Tolerance knives and most of them failed. After taking a knife apart and pushing the lock bar over some the issue has ceased. Not only are the locks no longer failing they are actually locking up super tight and secure.
This shouldn't have to be done on knives that cost so much... I don't own any ZT's (anymore) and will not be buying any in the future... Way too many alternatives for a hard use knife out there...
I was concerned about this issue as well but bought a 0350 as it was a knife I always wanted. Mine has almost perfect lock up and will not budge even after spine whacking much harder than you were doing with zero issues. My 0308 is also rock solid and has non of these failure issues.
I appreciated this video, it made me check my four ZTs; 0450, 0900, 0801 and 0456. Three have a lock-up at around 50%, the fourth is at around 35%. I'm happy to report that none have lock-rock, and I was not able to get them to close when putting pressure on the spines.
There is actually a fourth problem as well: the lock face on the blade tang is either straight or a very large radius, and is ground at a very steep angle, which contributes to more lock slip. That quality, in conjunction with the hardened steel insert, makes this type of failure a fact of life.
Sorry to say but yes you have caused the lock rock, albeit unintentionally. Almost all liner and frame locking knives will suffer deformation of the lock interface and or tang during repeated spine whacking. The Spyderco has to, the damage isn't apparent as the spring tension of the liner happens to be higher helping the liner to walk across the tang to make contact. Want proof? Just hit it harder. Increase the tension on your damaged ZTs by bending the lock bars over a hair, the lock rock will disappear and they'll be less likely to slip, they may even develop some stick, until you start whacking them again. Folders aren't designed to be treated that way, it's nothing to do with branding, I guarantee you the Sebbie will go just as easy as the ZTs. All locks will fail under the right abuse, the tri-ad is the toughest by a mile (but can still fail, I've broken one) and generally the liner is the weakest closely followed by the frame lock. Lots of energy focusing on a tiny amount of steel is always going to end badly. The trick is to use the tool you have within it's design limits. There is no sensible real world scenario in which a folding knife will ever experience those sort of forces on the spine. If you really need that sort of capability then box up your knives and send them to me, I'll send you a hammer.
Thomas Denton all of them had lock rock out of the box. So no I had no part in the lock rock. If you followed me longer you’d know that. So that isn’t true. My spyderco’s microtech’s hinderers. Don’t have lock rock that I tested in previous attempts of making this video. The reason I checked in the first place was because I was using my Zt0801, to Pop a zip tie, and the knife failed, so I started testing the zt knives, and they all failed.
Thomas Denton this is really long so I’ll answer it in parts. No my sabenza didn’t fail when I tried it, and didn’t have lock rock out of the box, or after I tested it.
Thomas Denton and if a folder is built to take pressure on the spine, and it says built like a tank, it should be stronger then my delica at a 1/4 the price, because zt sacrifices cutting performance in the name of being hard use.
Thomas Denton do you truly think that my Palm is hard enough to deform a steel insert? And deform it enough to develop blade play? Steel doesn’t exactly like to deform very easily. I think I’d brake the bone in my hand before deforming that steel Insert.
It's good and healthy for the industry that people can raise where there is room for improvement. My ZT doesnt have either of these problems, though I'm not going to repeatedly batter it to find out, then send it back to ZT to undo what I may have contributed towards. Can't help but wonder though, what "hard use beyond cutting" have you planned for what is, at the end of the day, just a beautiful feel-good folding pocket knife? I have best experiences using the right tool for the job; I take out a robust fixed blade knife for the heavier stuff, then to an axe for chopping. Admittedly, an axe isn't urban EDC where I come from!
Just tried this test on both of my EDC ZTs (0450CF & 0095BW) and could not replicate the failure. The 0095 has about 75% contact for the lock bar insert to blade and the 0450 has about 30% contact. In both cases, there is zero blade wiggle in any direction. I've had them for years. As far as hard use goes, I subscribe to the idea of using tools for their intended purpose and use knives for cutting, screw drivers for driving fasteners, pry bars for prying, etc... My EDC accommodates this philosophy with additional tools for additional tasks. I would say that if you're going to use a single tool for any task, it should be a multitool that's equipped according to the tasks you're likely to encounter. If you're going to use a knife for self defense, you should have one that is dedicated for that purpose and is kept razor sharp. That's why I carry two. One for defense and one for mundane cutting tasks. I'm not saying everyone should do this. But if you're going to treat your knives like multitools, you can expect them to fail at some point.
I love the argument on how it would be pointless for you to want knives YOU spent money on to be bad. This is a really interesting video. I’m glad Cedric and Ada outdoors posted this video.
Joseph A haha Yea i don’t know why people would think I would want my knives to have issues, but those people are out there. And yea Cedric has been helping me get more subscribers. Really cool for him to do that.
- People in general should be thanking you . N O T Attacking You ! ! ! Zero Tolerance should be thanking you as well for bringing this matter to their attention . A simple milling adjustment of point 2 ▪︎ 5 or . 5 of one flippin ' itsy - - bitsy - wittle millimeter . . . then . . . done . Problem solved . If ' ya lose your loyal customers (( Mothers - Fathers - daughters - sons - friends - co - workers - uncles - aunts - brother - - A D I N F I N I T U M . . . . . . Then You Are Dead -- End Of Story -- End Of The Final Chapter -- Book ~ T H E E N D . Z T . . . Get your R & D Department to look into the matter I M M E D I A T E L Y . All Knives Should Be Reliable -- P E R I O D . -
I've got 6 ZT's, no rock in any of them. Did this test with all of them on different materials (wood, tape, metal) and never had one fail. I've done some pretty dicey things with all of them like stabbing, prying, and batoning and never felt that any of them put me in danger. But, to the people that are saying you SHOULD be able to use them for more than cutting, your wrong, thats how you break it. Knives are made to cut, hammers are made to hammer, and crowbars are made to pry. If your buying a knife with prying in mind go to walmart and pick up a 5 dollar crowbar. If you get in a pickle and all you have is a knife, just be smart and understand that you're using a tool with moving peices in place of one that doesn't. If you want to be stubborn and refuse to use the right tool for a given job get a full tang fixed blade. I recommend the kabar bk2. Its the closest you'll get to a hammer/crowbar that has a serviceable edge. Its fun to see what a tool can take in testing, but when comes to actual use, try and preserve your resources by being smart and using the right tool. If all you have is you're beautiful 300 dollar chunk of supersteel, titanium, and carbon fiber on bearing washers, go ahead use it, just don't be upset if it breaks or fails. I learned how to use a slipjoint for hard work because thats all I had for a while, and because of that I understand why you shouldn't put pressure in the WRONG direction of lockup. It just flies in the face of common sense.
You have an interesting observation. There does seem to be differences between brands with lock failing. Another reason to favor buying one brand over another.... However, folding knives normally should not be abused that way. The pivot is relatively small on folders so vulnerability should be obvious when subjected to abuse (even though Spyderco is better).... Fixed blades are the knives to use if you are hitting the spine like that.
You are correct, Sir. I just tested my ZT 0350 (liner lock) vs Spyderco Paramilitary 2 (compression lock) vs Benchmade Stryker (liner lock) vs Benchmade Bedlam (axis lock). My ZT was the ONLY one to fail this test. Didn't take too much pressure on the spine to cause the failure. Needless to say, I will no longer be carrying the ZT as a defensive option. Thank you for bringing this information to the interwebs. All the best.
I was so nervous the whole time that you were gonna get hurt but you made a lot of great points. I am officially off the fence about getting a zt. Thank you
stumble into this video. I only got one ZT (0562cf). Hitted hard against palm and then wood. I don't get whats wrong with your knives either. In any case, you've got a great collection there, will start following you and see whats ZT have to say. Don't hurt your knives! ; )
John Scrivani another person said the same thing. This was my response. Kyle Manko 100%. But that doesn’t mean they should fail as easily as my zt knives. Notice how none of my spyderco knives failed the same test all of my zt knives did. My Hinderer, crk, microtech, strider, spyderco etc. all easily passed the test. Also when you’re using a knife for harder tasks, your hands aren’t always on the lock bar, so the lock needs to be strong on its own.
If you think knives are just meant to slice and that testing them by putting pressure on the spine is unfair, why bother with buying locking knives are all? Spine whack tests are meaningless on slipjoints and friction folders, but in my opinion they're totally valid on any knife that has a mechanism designed to lock the blade open even when force is applied to the spine.
Still, it’s kind of disconcerting for a knife marketed as overbuilt and tough for its locks to fail by wacking it on a roll of painter’s tape. I had a knife lock fail on me while cutting a zip tied bundle. In a pinch grip, I slid the knife under the zip tie blade up, pulled up using the tip as a fulcrum and lock failed, knife shut half way. I didn’t cut myself but it opened my eyes to lock failure. Now this was a $50 modus, but should it happen to $200 plus ZTs “built like a tank”?
Thanks for sharing. Made me a little nervous, but I tested my 2020 ZT0450 and it locks up solid, no blade play and I smacked it against the tape pretty hard with no issues
Yeah the 566 isn't going to fail. My 566 has insanely strong lock up and its actually almost impossible to even close one handed. This issue is going to vary model by model and knife by knife
Spyderco knives are for cutting too, and they probably won't close on your hand if something bumps your knife the wrong way. Nice little added bonus for the same or less money.
@@phillipnunya6793 Guarantee it wont close on your hand in your daily life. Let me know when it happens to you. Yeah Spyderco is great but some people like nicer knives.
@@northernninety7 You won't be crashing your car every day either. That's not the point. You can get knives from other companies that use similar materials, have similar build quality, sell for similar prices (or less), and have functional locks. If you use knives for more than cutting string and opening letters, that matters.
@@phillipnunya6793 Then more power to you for saving money on a cheaper knife while preventing your fingers being cut off by a ZT. Sounds like the possibility of one closing on your fingers is a risk for you. Good choice by you to eliminate your risk.
Thanks, you preformed the most important test for safety and security, both of which it failed. So I very much appreciate the video, it saved me from buying a DANGEROUS AND INEFFECTIVE FOLDER, FOR MY secondary? You might have saved my life!!!!
Simple, he set out to hammer on the knife until it failed. He was not using it in the correct manner. Any tool can be destroyed with some effort. That’s like holding down the gas pedal in a car and leaving it in 1st gear until the engine blows up. Does that mean it’s not a good car? No, it just means somebody doesn’t know what they’re doing or how to use tools properly and how they were intended to be used. It’s generally smart to use the “sharp side” of the knife when cutting. But then again the original poster could be 5 years old and not know how to use a knife the correct way.
I wanna also say that the overall concept of a "hard use" folder is a complete lie. Folding knives are light cutting tools, period. The only "hard use" knives are fixed blades. Any action other than cutting (prying, scraping, etc) has a specific tool, and a folding knife just is not that tool.
There is no sensible real world scenario. Folding knives should have less limits, and stronger stuff. Theyre shittier than guns right now. I dont got the right tool, I aint gonna get that tool, the fixed blade is dead back there, and I'm behind enemy lines. What do? PRAY FOR ALIENS TO BLAST THE WALLS!!
The obviously, the exterior frame lock feature, is a design failure. Many people try to avoid pressing hard or even on the handle and they noted it disengages the exterior frame lock. It could be even weaker if they use carbon fiber, titanium or aluminum. The Ken Onion 303 or 308 has that exterior frame lock feature. If you look at the ZT 350 by Ken Onion? Onion has an interior lock. I suspect Onion knows this a defect. The frame lock feature is an elegant feature and justifies another $100 bucks in price but is not safe. My cheap Ken Onion desiged, Kershaw's will not do this. They have interior frame locks. If you want a superior lock up? I suggest buying cheap knives like Smith & Wesson, Schrade, Kershaw, CRKT, Cold Steel, as you note Spyderco knives or any other interior frame lock knife.
Just got a ZT 0909 yesterday. Saw your video and got totally freaked out. Took the 0909 outside and hit it on a piece of wood 10 times. Absolutely no lock fail. The took my 0562 and 0452 out and tried them as well. No lock fails. I don’t have that lock rock on any of the knives though. Send those back for warranty service. Edit: hit the 0909 on the ground and I still can’t make this happen.
The question now arises: If you ask your local machinist to make stop pins with the bigger diameter so the vertical play will be removed - will it allow to close deep enough into the frame ? Probably Yes, perhaps the detent ball might not reach fully deep into the detent hole and some models may fully lose the detent, some will have it less strong..
neroknives In what example in the real world would the knife be used in this manner? Serious question. I am new to the knife world and wondering what application a knife would be used in this way.
Richard Salemme the point was just to show the zt has issues with there lock. And that they truly aren’t over built. If you want to make a knife that losses cutting performance, to me over built to Handel harder tasks. The lock should be able to stand up to it. Prying, snap cuts, whittling wood, pulling out of a material quickly if your blade binds up. If you’re just cutting paper, and popping a string on your shirt. You’ll never have to worry about it.
neroknives that didn't answer the question I asked. I am wondering under what type of use the knife would be subjected to the impact to the spine that you demonstrated. In the uses you have already mentioned isn't pressure applied the lock bar to prevent it from disengaging?
Richard Salemme Pressure doesn’t need to just be necessarily apply to the spine, to make a knife with a bad lock fail. In the second part of what I said above, a snap cut into a material, you generally pull out of that material quickly. When pulling out quickly the lock can fail. Also if you’re digging into something and have a lateral force applied to the pivot, and or blade, those kinds of forces are the same basic kinds of forces as pressure to the spine.
To anyone saying a "hard use" knife is only meant for cutting, you guys haven't been put into a desperate situation with the lack of equipment. When I was in the military, we use our knives for all sort of things, removing jammed rounds from a gun receiver, hammering a seized take down pin to dismantle our firearms, striking ferro rods, etc. Hard use knives are knives meant to be used and abused well beyond it's intended purpose and carry on trucking. That's why I only carry a Cold Steel Recon 1 tanto in S35VN, I simply don't trust any other knives for proper hard use.
Fantastic, just spent a small fortune on my first zt and the very first video I see in my recommendations is this, I spent all afternoon researching zt knives on RUclips and all I seen was nothing but love. Unbelievable.
as Chris reeve said the lock up/angle is one of the most important things on a folding knife, and don't think there's any lock-rock on his knifes, vary interesting review I enjoyed watching.
When the knife is in an actual "hard use" situation, your hand is going to be putting pressure on the lockbar. I'm sorry but there is no real situation where the blade will have pressure put on it like that. Especially without pressure on the lock bar from your grip on the knife. Every time you hit the spine of your blade while its locked you slightly dent the lock interface and possibly bend the lockbar thus why all your ZT knives have lock-rock. To compare the delica's lock back mechanism being better than the frame lock of the 801 or 350 is a vague comparison. You're being unfair to the Zero Tolerance knives by not having a proper grip for that type of use/pressure on the blade (you should never hit the spine of your folding knife like that). I guarantee if you grip that knife just like you were about to stab something hard, the pressure from your fingers/hand on the lock bar will not allow the knife to shut on its own. That's how a lock bar is better than a lock back. Put a little pressure on the lock bar(towards over-locking the knife) then see if the tension breaks as easily.
I just did the same thing to 6 of my zt knives and my brother and cousin did it to there zt knives and all of these fucking knives did this same exact thing.. you like the name and your a fan boy. The steel is good but all knife company's can get good steel. It's personal experience with zt knives.. I think they suck but they are pretty.
@@samms.712 ZT was my favorite brand. I didn't want to believe this could happen. But when I tested my nine zt's, which had never been used, six failed using way less force than shown here. ZT....all show and no go.
I stumbled on this by accident BUT now that I see the topic, I have to disagree my m390 zt0620cf is on me at all times, it is used a half dozen times a day minimum and I just did the same test as you and it did indeed fail, I tried it also with a direware s90 and it did not fail. BUT this knife has never failed or injured me even when prying open a can or tightening a screw on my land cruiser so I think the back of the spine test dosent really apply. spyderco are thin blade that snap ZT dont.
I sent three knives with failing locks into zt for warranty service. A 0452cf, 0393sw, and a Kershaw link. They came back today and are no longer failing. They didn't indicate what they did but it looks to me like they replaced the lockbar inserts with taller ones. Gives me a little more confidence that if I do buy another Kai knife and it has a failing lock, I can send it back and get it corrected.
They all just need to be taken apart and the lock bar slightly bent in more. This would give a slightly later lockup and fill in the gap near the stop pin so that the lock-rock goes away. People get all crazy when I talk about bending stuff, but otherwise, this stuff happens. Not ridiculous bending. Just a hair. ZT prides themselves on that smooth, droppy action, but a big component of that is having very little lockbar pressure, and I think it's a mistake. I think the moral of the story is that a person shouldn't have to go bending stuff at a couple of hundred bucks a piece. I've never been a ZT guy. Never really anti-ZT either. I do find it funny though that a tiny Delica is apparently more "built like a tank" than those tanks. I love this channel, dude.
Why would one need to take apart a +-200$ knife to adjust it, when the companies literal mantra is "built like ..." It's like saying one would need to "adjust" a Jeep to 4x4...
@@zacpdx Absolutely with ya on that. I'd write more, but I'm in the middle of adjusting the jeep I paid double what I should've for, to 4x4. This thing didn't even come with the 4x4 tool!
I think it's a little unfair to compare it to a lockback like the Delica. If you want to do spine whack tests you should keep the comparison to similar(in their lock up method) knives.
Wacking a spine on a hard surface is a ridiculous test, I can’t think of a single real-life scenario where such force will ever be applied to the lock, because when you’re cutting, you don’t cut with the back of the knife, you cut with the edge.
Not a knife collector but a user, I have a normal s&w model and have used it as shown in this video also in a rush have broken off the tip and ordered kershaw, so nero is correct there are people that use their knives for many things in a rush
@@polarweis Really? ZT is probably the best in both performance and build quality in the US based on a more affordable standpoint. I hold them in a higher regard that Benchmade. You people seem to forget these are tools for basic edc cutting tasks, not hammers.
@@samms.712 hammer or not.. a lock should Stay locked under minimum pressure. It would be rather easy for zt to improve their locks.(many Chinese companies can do it so why not Them) but i guess if their customers, like you, dont care about it why would they. But hey allemaal knife people here who use there knives like they use them.
Because everyone holds a knife with two fingers insuring they aren't putting pressure on the lock bar while whacking the spine... in daily use. Hold it like you would actually hold it and that would never happen.
I only have a zt 0462, and it has zero lock rock and wont close when spine whacked. Im not sure if lock rock only comes from factory. All of those spine wack tests could be wearing the material and causing some lock rock. ZTs manual (the one that came with my knife) also says "any use other than cutting (such as prying or twisting) is considered misuse and abuse" in the next paragraph it also says "ZT knives are not intended for throwing or stabbing; they are designed for cutting purposes only". Of the manufacture says its only for cutting, its probably for cutting. The beefyness of the knives are probably more stylistic, so that they last, and so that they can endure hard cutting.
Chase so the built like a tank is a Lie? and they all had lock rock before the test. And the first lock test was on the palm of my hand. If my hand can deform a steel insert, that would be amazing. You can see the first test I did on my instagram. The reason I tried that first test, was because I tried cutting a thicker zip tie and my zt lock failed and folded, so I checked all them. They all failed. Prior to that, none of them ever had any type of spine whacking. It’s on zt not me. And if you watch my zt comparison video, you’ll see that the new zt had lock rock right not of the box.
Chase ps I also have brass knuckles that say they’re only paperweights, and firework that say they’re only a novelty item. Companies say these thing to protect themselves. But with a little common sense we should be able to see what they can really be used for 😉
neroknives Can you explain what exactly you were doing when cutting the zip tie that caused the lock to fail? Like were you simply applying pressure to the edge side (as opposed to the spine side) and it even failed there?! Because regardless of what one thinks of spine whacks tests and their relevance to real world usage, if you managed to get the knife to fail just simply cutting a zip tie and applying pressure to the CUTTING EDGE and it failed even this.... Good grief! That's a major problem! These vids are great and I only recently found your channel. I'll be watching lots more AFTER I go check out my ZT knives now! Haha
topfueljunkie100 thanks I’m glad you like the videos. Just posted a new one. But it was a thicker zip tie, So I slid the knife under it, then I twisted the knife so the cutting edge out be under the sip tie (I do this all the time) and when I was twisting to position the cutting edge to the zip tie the knife failed. I ever had that happen before, so I did a spine wack to my hand and the lock failed again. So then I checked the rest of my zt knives. And they Pretty much all failed
I am a professional hitman and I was just contacted by a high ranking ZT executive to end these videos. Luckily for Nero I'm more of a SPYDERCO guy. As such I will not be accepting the contract. Thanks for the video Nero keep it up brother!
Tape roll knife smacking is new to me. I guess I haven't been using my knives properly for the last 40 years. I use them for cutting stuff without tape roll knife smacking. Haven't had one problem with my ZT's ever. I guess I haven't smacked enough tape. Or,....it's because a framelock was designed to be held in you hand while using it, making the lock engage even more securely. I don't think you understand how it works.
LoL how about ZT made a good lock lmao. I'ts fascinating how fanboys will defend a flaw just cause of the brand. I swear if these were Chinesium gas station knives you'd be like "That's what you get for paying $5."
Im sorry but I still find this a null point. I also agree with whomever said it's a knife and knives are made for cutting. If you need to hammer something, use a hammer. If you gotta pry something, get a pry bar. He'll if you think you wanna baton wood, use an actual fixed blade survival knife wacking the back of your knife to get it fi fail proves nothing except, a knife iit's a horrible hammer
Rooster Diggs not trying to be an asshole. But if I take a Spyderco Delica, and a benchmade adamas. Every single person I show them to that not apart of the knife community will say the adamas is built for more then just cutting. And they would have no problem prying or doing whatever they need to do with it. But then when you ask some people in the knife community they say both are made for the same thing. Even tho one is about 3 oz with a thin stick and the other is 9oz with a thick stock. Sorry they are clearly not made for the same thing. And It’s just mind blowing to me With how much people in the knife community baby knives.
Rooster Diggs it’s like the people that aren’t in the knife community know more about knives then people in the knife community ( in this example) Clearly the bigger heavier thicker knife, that sacrifices cutting performance to do other tasks better such as prying and chopping. Isn’t just meant for cutting. I just can’t Wrap my mind around how people don’t see that.
@@neroknives1828 ... You fail to see that because you miss the reason, it's purely fashion! Almost every damned folder today has too thick stock. Have nothing to do with actual use as you seem to think. It's all about selling a product.
MrAliaspostmortem well that’s not true. Knives with thick stock serve a purpose just like ones with thin stock. They just have different tasks in mind. Granted allot of knives today are just make to look cool, and free drop. But I really don’t buy them n
I notices he only tests frame lock ZTs, I have 4x zt0350, line lockers and none faile. Maybe it's just a frame lock. Also I can't think of any situation where I'd bash the spine of my blade on anything
@@robertlefeaux mate I use the day to day testing method. If it holds up doing what I need it to do from day to day it passes. After seeing this I dug out and tested every knife I have from the ZTs to the MTechs and not a single liner lock failed, not even the cheap unbranded K-Mart (Australias wall mart) knives showed any sign of failing. I'm thinking he's done something to that knife to make it fair just for the video.
Sir, I will give your your point that if I bang the snot out of my zt knifes like you did the locking mechanism will jump and fail. I do not use my knifes in this fashion. Now, because my zt knifes do not have a hole drilled in the middle of the blade the blade is much stronger than a spyderco. I also have a few of the spyderco knifes as well. When I place a spyderco in my hands it is generally for slicing, thin blade and thin handle. The at knifes are thicker in both areas so if I am going into the woods or working in the yard I carry a zt. Their blades won't snap off, or the rips won t break off like spyderco. They are both decent knifes, I won't even bring up the cold steel recon 1 which I carry to cover both of the above manufacturers deficiencies.
obviously something is up with your knifes. I have 8 ZT's. after watching your video I tested mine. None of mine have this issue. when I try to make them fail the lockup gets tighter. Hopefully they fix yours.
neroknives my 2 0350’s stayed open fine. I whacked the shit out of them on a piece of wood too. I’m curious why yours aren’t staying open, you’d think ZT wouldn’t have these problems with a slogan like “proudly overbuilt in the USA.”
I’m open minded, so I tried this with the following ZT knives: two 0562CF’s, two 0452CF’s, and one 0450CF. I whacked them against a workbench top, and hit one hard enough to send it flying. None showed any sign of wanting to close. Yours did, so I dunno....
I have an 0620 and day 1 out of the box I tested this, it failed. But I don't really care to be honest. It's a knife and every day it's served me well. Everything else about the knife is perfect. Don't hold off on buying a zt because of this, in everyday life this isn't a real issue.
Can you also do a 'roll-of-tape' comparison vid to see how different makes (Duct Tape, Sellotape etc) hold up against repeated whacking? Stickyness, end-finding and deformity are real issues for us adhesive tape collectors. Perhaps a review of the now famous Gorilla-Tape (which I find hard to unravel with speed)....?
Tell that to my brother that went through 3 tours with an 0350. It got hard use it looks like garbage now (works fine.) My brother is a green beret. I bought him that knife. He bought himself a knew tiger strip 0350 and contracted with that knife for a few year's.
@@cogitaretoo Yeah? I would love to have you come out of cyberspace and tell him that. You wouldn't have the b@ll$ to tell my 78 yr old father he wasn't a marine either ya spineless troll.
You are causing the problem by hitting the spine of the knife . It’s pushing the insert in . So you get the lock rock . I can see having to adjust the insert so the knife lock up is tight . You been around knives you should know that by now .
What you are talking about is exactly why I won't ever own another ZT or Kershaw. I had three 0630s in a row, brand new and sent directly from ZT, that had lock failure right out of the box. The first one closed shut on my fingers when it got stuck in cardboard and I reversed the direction to pull it out. You don't have to try to use a these like "a hammer", as some of you have put it, for the knife to fail. ZTs have thick blades and sometimes get stuck in the medium being cut - that's all it takes.
This is yet another great comment because it describes exactly a way that ZT's poor engineering or poor quality control make for a DANGEROUS knife when used in simply NORMAL, ORDINARY tasks! People often complain about "when do you ever put pressure on the spine of the knife in daily tasks? That's not normal and never happens in real world usage so you shouldn't whine that it failed!" but that is plainly FALSE and I'm so glad you have shown a legitimate and ordinary task which puts pressure on the spine of the blade (pulling upwards on the knife, putting pressure on the spine) when it became pinched in the cardboard you were cutting. Clearly, since it closed on your hand this makes it DANGEROUS and a complete FAILURE of the locking mechanism which SHOULD be fixed by ZT but for some unknown reason they seem completely ignorant of how to fix this. This is why I won't ever buy another ZT again. I've bought 2 and sent them both back to ZT for this problem (and to have the blades resharpened) and not only did they send the knives back with edges WORSE than when I sent them in (they were sharpened at an atrocious 25 degrees PER SIDE!) but one of the knives even had BURN marks on the edge telling me they wrecked the heat treat in that spot on the blade! Are you kidding me?! To top it all off, BOTH the knive's lock issues were NOT fixed and one of them (my 0630) was even WORSE than before! As further evidence of ZT's incompetence and yet another display of how a normal every day usage of the knife leads to a dangerous lock failure, when I use the knife's Emerson Wave feature to deploy the blade, the simple act of the blade flipping open creates enough pressure being sent back into the lock bar that the lock instantly pops free and releases the blade immediately after it just locked open. So simply using the knife's built in wave opening feature and having it open via this method (and not even doing it very hard or fast! Just a normal deployment) creates enough resulting "bounce back" type of pressure to be sent spineward and into the lock bar causing it to fail. So if I open the knife one of the ways it was designed to be opened, I could unknowingly be about to use the knife with the lock unengaged which is obviously dangerous. This is completely unacceptable and after reading all the stories here about knives being sent back repeatedly to ZT and never being truly fixed, this is why I feel I was ripped off with 2 junk knives from ZT. Having a warranty isn't any good when the company is too incompetent to fix a simple problem, let alone the several issues I sent mine in for, NONE of which were fixed! ALL of which were WORSE when returned to me!
@@topfueljunkie100 Yet I still see comments about how this is not a problem for some people. I think they're just knowingly ignoring it, just to make themselves think that THEIR ZT's are perfectly fine. Making excuses about how your grip makes the lock stronger, as if a lock's strength should ever have to depend on how you hold it. These knives are dangerous and I'll never use them. You think zt will ever do anything about it? Issue a mass recall? I'm not holding my breath.
@@abc456f Yeah, I agree, I think some are knowingly ignoring it to make themselves feel better while some others are just plain ignorant of what's really going on yet they feel the need to try to discredit those of us who know firsthand what's happening. Seems there's a lot of people on YT here who are just eager to share a contrary opinion even if they haven't really thought thru it yet! I completely agree about the lock mechanism not being dependant upon how you hold it. You'd think that'd be obvious right?! Just wish those who make such silly comments about how (they think) the lock won't fail if you hold it right would understand that their "theory" doesn't really hold any water! I know, I've tried! To those of them who might see this comment, I've tried this very thing myself to see if it might prevent the lock from failing and it definitely does not. Even Nero himself said this elsewhere how it only added about maybe 30% strength into the lock but never completely prevented its failure. As far as ZT doing anything about this issue, I doubt there'll be any sort mass recall unless there were some sort of class action lawsuit or a big enough impact to their business by enough of us bringing awareness to the issue that their sales were impacted or at least that they feared this could happen by enough bad publicity. But the likelihood of this happening is pretty slim just as you already expect. It's a real shame because I DO like their designs but I just wish they functioned as they should and weren't a danger to use!
I did the same test with all my ZT knives especially the 0630 Emerson model. I had no issues that you were able to produce. I will agree with you on the Spyderco as I carry the PM2 as well, they lock up solid.
Watch RUclips’s vinninull’s destruction test on a zt 0550. I have a zt0562 and never had an issue with it. The frame lock will not fail if your hand is firmly placed on the handle. Believe me.
In all honestly, this argument is BS. There's literally no normal use for a knife that involves hitting the spine against something. If you are using them for cutting and the lock fails, yeah then there's a problem! For anything else there's prybars and hammers
As an aside.... Spyderco linerlocks tend to use the Terzuola radiused lockface where the tangent of the radius doesn't actually happen at the far end, but rather, a tiny bit toward the center. This makes it less likely to fail (but not impossible -- I had a well-used Military fail with light spine pressure.) The ZT lockfaces are generally linear and steep.
I've read quite a few of those comments, including the long thread started by Thomas Denton. Here's a scenario. You're using your heavy duty ZT (it could be any brand but we'll go with this) to do some serious cutting and somehow the knife slips from your hand and drops to the floor, or onto a rock or log from about a metre (3 feet). It lands at an angle that cause the lock to fail. When you pick it up and 'lock' it back into place, how much do you trust that expensive knife now? You dropped it and the lock failed. A 'safety' lock that fails after a smallish knock is NOT a safety lock. End of story.
Six of my nine zt's failed. What if your blade gets stuck in whatever you're cutting and you need to pull it upward to free it? Goodbye fingers. I've spent approx. $1500 on what are basically slip joints.
I have the zt 850 BLK with no problem I banged it on a 2x4. I really don't love zt I'm a hard core Spyderco fan boy I won't lie. But I've never hard used my two zts but my manix 2 has been my work knife for 6 years. I work in HVAC and have cut through plenums, flex and metal duct work and not a single problem. I once dropped it from two stories because I set it next to a window and it fell into trash container and no problem at all. All the people saying I'll use a hammer for a hammering job. Yeah that's true but most of them haven't been deep in an attic with a missing tool or what not. A knife will be a lot of different tools in a pinch.
I’ve got an 0566 that’s over 10 years old and been through hell. The G10 is actually worn almost smooth. Still holds solid. Maybe it’s newer knives. I don’t know, I’m not a fancy knife kind of guy though
This reminds me of the time that Cold steel did that bullshit ass video "Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 vs. Cold Steel Code 4". Where Cold Steel spin whacked the spine of the Sebenza 21 and when it failed said that the IRL(Reeve Integral lock) was too weak and flimsy. In the real world no one spine whacks their knives!!!
I believe the geometry/torsional motion of cutting thrusting etc is just not ideal for liner and frame locks. Especially in high stress self defense. I can't imagine the special forces messing with a frame lock even as a backup to a fixed blade.
I Believe Spine Wacking might Deform the Lockbar enough to cause Lockrock and also causing the blade to close .Zts design on their locks are more susceptible to this over other Knife Brands I have over a dozen or so Zts I never plan on the Spine Wack Exercise. When Your Zts come back from warranty don't over do Spine Wacking I believe it may cause Damage to Your knives.Spine wack cold steel knives they were designed to not close the blade when spine Wacking. You have a nice collection of knives treat them Babies Right.i subscribed Great video Sincerely Thomas Raymond of Fresno California.
Thomas Raymond all the knives on the table except for two of them had ever had pressure to the spine. So I had nothing to do with the lock rock, Nora where the steel inserts damaged in any way. When I got them back from zt, the first knife I hit on my hand failed the first time. I sold them all.
I'm not a big fan of ZT and I don't own a single one. However, I do own many knives ranging from $20 to $200 and have never seen authentic knives fail like that entire ZT range.
I keep coming back to this video to read comments. lol. There's no point in a locking folder if the lock fails like this, by the logic everyone here is using there is no point in having a linerlock or a framelock at all. We should all be using slip joints or friction folders because there is NO reason a lateral force should ever be applied to the spine of the blade. What a bunch of kids, ZT has a real problem here and they still haven't addressed it.
You said it right there: Built for "more than just cutting"? Thats not what hard use means, dude. Use knife for to cut. Use screwdriver for to screw. Use prybar for to pry. Etc.
Mark W give them a shot. I think I should a couple spyderco knives not failing in this video. And then I also show the budget kershaw being able to pull a nail, and the 450 can’t.
3 года назад
@@neroknives1828 I could close my hinderer with bare hands. A frame lock isn't very strong.
I've always thought zero tolerance knives were overly hyped and overpriced. I'm glad this video was made. No excuse for these knives to have these kinds of issues for the price we're paying.
My ZT always failed with any pressure. IMO they are all flawed. they are built and marketed as a tactical knife, pry, stab etc.. People whatever.. you hit a bone or any obstacle with the pressure the wrong way and your fingers are gone
I like big back locks and I can not lie. Big Triad back locks are my favorite if I can not have a fixed blade. I am going to get the tree frog or tad pole knives that have one or two blade stop pins keeping them from shutting on you fingers. I think they are from BHK or is it LT Wright or both? I made a pin to put in the little hole on the handle that would stop the blade from closing if the Triad lock were to ever fail on my 4 Max from Cold Steel.
People say lock strength isn't important, but then they won't buy slipjoints. I don't think locks need to meet Cold Steels standards, but on the other hand they shouldn't fail with light taps as my ZT 909 does. Locks should have to pass some minimal standard.
amo757 I agree. I care more about lock longevity then lock strength. I know my sabenza doesn’t have a strong lock. But it’s still strong enough for anything I’ll use it for. But the zt did fail on me, that’s where I draw the line.
punk22450 right, just like Zero Tolerance knives. Hell, I could certainly break a cold steel knife. All it would take it a clamp and a hammer. Idk what the fuck that will prove either though.???
That was both interesting and informative mate really enjoyed.look forward to there return from ZT.thanks for sharing your findings.this is community working for each other.atb paddy👍☺🍀
Just had someone send me this video.
ruclips.net/video/czsAZ2US7Ew/видео.html wow you can watch only the first 4 minutes. The 0350s fail from only hand preasure...
Here’s another one ruclips.net/video/34VArHjQUDk/видео.html
neroknives who uses a knife for a hammer? If u are putting force against the edge of the blade u won’t have these issues!!!
Are you serious?
then you'd be as good as using a slip joint lol
I'm curious on what you ever did with your knives did you send them back to ZT?
After watching your video I tried the same thing with my zero tolerance's.. 7 out of 8 of them had lock failure. The only one that did not is the 804cf.
I ended up taking my nights apart and pushing the lock bar over some and not only did the lock cease to fail they now actually lock up super tight and secure.
I'm still very curious on what you do with yours thanks I appreciate the videos
@@ambulldog111 My 0804cf fails, as well as five others. Waiting to hear back from zt. If they don't properly address the problem, I'll go ahead and move the lockbars over.
Very well explained and reasoned, and very much looking forward to the response. It indicates a very common rule in life - the louder something (or someone) claims to be tough, the less likely that is to be true.
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors and they stumbled on the steel tests 2 or 3 times
Growing up I was always told don't worry about the guy screaming worry about the one wispering!
Unless it's Cold Steel lol
Zt is tough never seen this with any zt's
Palmer cold steel has a video showing the same thing from years back.
I guess I never really use the spine of my knives like a hammer... I tend to use hammers for hammering and knives for cutting. This just isn't a problem even for a hard use knife. This is like using your knife as a screwdriver and complaining that the tip of the blade is messed up
I hear you man. Just today I tried cutting rope with my hammer and it sucked. Threw the hammer out
Lol
Agree.
Not to mention there's no pressure against the frame when he holds it the way he does.... When you hold a knife the correct way your hands going to be holding the frame lock which would probably be even less likely to break loose.
Sneaky Peaky he’s simply a dumb fuck
I own 3 ZTs (301, 460, and 770). Just finished doing this test on them and thankfully had no issues at all. Even hit the spine harder than in the video.
Just tested my 0450 and no issues. Definitely hit harder than the video lol.
@@JoskiiWoskii same here, also a 0450 and no issues or play whatsoever.
So after watching this video I went and did the same thing to my Zero Tolerance knives and most of them failed.
After taking a knife apart and pushing the lock bar over some the issue has ceased.
Not only are the locks no longer failing they are actually locking up super tight and secure.
This shouldn't have to be done on knives that cost so much... I don't own any ZT's (anymore) and will not be buying any in the future... Way too many alternatives for a hard use knife out there...
callofduty60 I agree but I’m glad to know the info from ambulldog111.
@@callofduty60 none of these titanium frame locks are hard use.
Skinny Moose Bullshit. The Sebenza is an excellent hard use knife.
My only request is please don't say "OK" 100 times in your videos
I was concerned about this issue as well but bought a 0350 as it was a knife I always wanted. Mine has almost perfect lock up and will not budge even after spine whacking much harder than you were doing with zero issues. My 0308 is also rock solid and has non of these failure issues.
I appreciated this video, it made me check my four ZTs; 0450, 0900, 0801 and 0456. Three have a lock-up at around 50%, the fourth is at around 35%. I'm happy to report that none have lock-rock, and I was not able to get them to close when putting pressure on the spines.
There is actually a fourth problem as well: the lock face on the blade tang is either straight or a very large radius, and is ground at a very steep angle, which contributes to more lock slip. That quality, in conjunction with the hardened steel insert, makes this type of failure a fact of life.
I have some bad news. I have knives that have steel bar lock inserts that have lock stick.
Sorry to say but yes you have caused the lock rock, albeit unintentionally. Almost all liner and frame locking knives will suffer deformation of the lock interface and or tang during repeated spine whacking. The Spyderco has to, the damage isn't apparent as the spring tension of the liner happens to be higher helping the liner to walk across the tang to make contact. Want proof? Just hit it harder.
Increase the tension on your damaged ZTs by bending the lock bars over a hair, the lock rock will disappear and they'll be less likely to slip, they may even develop some stick, until you start whacking them again. Folders aren't designed to be treated that way, it's nothing to do with branding, I guarantee you the Sebbie will go just as easy as the ZTs.
All locks will fail under the right abuse, the tri-ad is the toughest by a mile (but can still fail, I've broken one) and generally the liner is the weakest closely followed by the frame lock. Lots of energy focusing on a tiny amount of steel is always going to end badly.
The trick is to use the tool you have within it's design limits. There is no sensible real world scenario in which a folding knife will ever experience those sort of forces on the spine. If you really need that sort of capability then box up your knives and send them to me, I'll send you a hammer.
Thomas Denton all of them had lock rock out of the box. So no I had no part in the lock rock. If you followed me longer you’d know that. So that isn’t true. My spyderco’s microtech’s hinderers. Don’t have lock rock that I tested in previous attempts of making this video. The reason I checked in the first place was because I was using my Zt0801, to Pop a zip tie, and the knife failed, so I started testing the zt knives, and they all failed.
Thomas Denton this is really long so I’ll answer it in parts. No my sabenza didn’t fail when I tried it, and didn’t have lock rock out of the box, or after I tested it.
Thomas Denton and if a folder is built to take pressure on the spine, and it says built like a tank, it should be stronger then my delica at a 1/4 the price, because zt sacrifices cutting performance in the name of being hard use.
neroknives Sorry I'll keep this one shorter. No assumptions here, it's clear to see. You can take a horse to water, you can't make it drink. I'm out.
Thomas Denton do you truly think that my Palm is hard enough to deform a steel insert? And deform it enough to develop blade play? Steel doesn’t exactly like to deform very easily. I think I’d brake the bone in my hand before deforming that steel Insert.
It's good and healthy for the industry that people can raise where there is room for improvement. My ZT doesnt have either of these problems, though I'm not going to repeatedly batter it to find out, then send it back to ZT to undo what I may have contributed towards. Can't help but wonder though, what "hard use beyond cutting" have you planned for what is, at the end of the day, just a beautiful feel-good folding pocket knife? I have best experiences using the right tool for the job; I take out a robust fixed blade knife for the heavier stuff, then to an axe for chopping. Admittedly, an axe isn't urban EDC where I come from!
Just tried this test on both of my EDC ZTs (0450CF & 0095BW) and could not replicate the failure. The 0095 has about 75% contact for the lock bar insert to blade and the 0450 has about 30% contact. In both cases, there is zero blade wiggle in any direction. I've had them for years. As far as hard use goes, I subscribe to the idea of using tools for their intended purpose and use knives for cutting, screw drivers for driving fasteners, pry bars for prying, etc... My EDC accommodates this philosophy with additional tools for additional tasks. I would say that if you're going to use a single tool for any task, it should be a multitool that's equipped according to the tasks you're likely to encounter. If you're going to use a knife for self defense, you should have one that is dedicated for that purpose and is kept razor sharp. That's why I carry two. One for defense and one for mundane cutting tasks. I'm not saying everyone should do this. But if you're going to treat your knives like multitools, you can expect them to fail at some point.
Functionality and performance should ALWAYS come before Aesthetics.
Thanks, dude. They must’ve fixed the issue because my 801ti has no lock play and it passes the spine test.
I love the argument on how it would be pointless for you to want knives YOU spent money on to be bad. This is a really interesting video. I’m glad Cedric and Ada outdoors posted this video.
Joseph A haha Yea i don’t know why people would think I would want my knives to have issues, but those people are out there. And yea Cedric has been helping me get more subscribers. Really cool for him to do that.
Joseph A. And Apostle P
Right...table full of $200 knives...this man surely spent all that money just to...buy failure???
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People in general should be
thanking you . N O T Attacking You ! ! !
Zero Tolerance should be thanking you
as well for bringing this matter to their
attention . A simple milling adjustment of
point 2 ▪︎ 5 or . 5 of one flippin ' itsy -
- bitsy - wittle millimeter . . . then . . . done .
Problem solved . If ' ya lose your loyal
customers (( Mothers - Fathers - daughters
- sons - friends - co - workers - uncles -
aunts - brother - - A D I N F I N I T U M . . .
. . . Then You Are Dead -- End Of Story -- End
Of The Final Chapter -- Book ~ T H E E N D .
Z T . . . Get your R & D Department to look
into the matter I M M E D I A T E L Y .
All Knives Should Be Reliable -- P E R I O D .
-
I just tried this on all of my ZT knives and none of them failed or had lock rock.
Same, but I only have two ZT. The 0393 and 0609.
I've got 6 ZT's, no rock in any of them. Did this test with all of them on different materials (wood, tape, metal) and never had one fail. I've done some pretty dicey things with all of them like stabbing, prying, and batoning and never felt that any of them put me in danger. But, to the people that are saying you SHOULD be able to use them for more than cutting, your wrong, thats how you break it. Knives are made to cut, hammers are made to hammer, and crowbars are made to pry. If your buying a knife with prying in mind go to walmart and pick up a 5 dollar crowbar. If you get in a pickle and all you have is a knife, just be smart and understand that you're using a tool with moving peices in place of one that doesn't. If you want to be stubborn and refuse to use the right tool for a given job get a full tang fixed blade. I recommend the kabar bk2. Its the closest you'll get to a hammer/crowbar that has a serviceable edge. Its fun to see what a tool can take in testing, but when comes to actual use, try and preserve your resources by being smart and using the right tool. If all you have is you're beautiful 300 dollar chunk of supersteel, titanium, and carbon fiber on bearing washers, go ahead use it, just don't be upset if it breaks or fails. I learned how to use a slipjoint for hard work because thats all I had for a while, and because of that I understand why you shouldn't put pressure in the WRONG direction of lockup. It just flies in the face of common sense.
You have an interesting observation. There does seem to be differences between brands with lock failing. Another reason to favor buying one brand over another.... However, folding knives normally should not be abused that way. The pivot is relatively small on folders so vulnerability should be obvious when subjected to abuse (even though Spyderco is better).... Fixed blades are the knives to use if you are hitting the spine like that.
You are correct, Sir. I just tested my ZT 0350 (liner lock) vs Spyderco Paramilitary 2 (compression lock) vs Benchmade Stryker (liner lock) vs Benchmade Bedlam (axis lock). My ZT was the ONLY one to fail this test. Didn't take too much pressure on the spine to cause the failure. Needless to say, I will no longer be carrying the ZT as a defensive option. Thank you for bringing this information to the interwebs. All the best.
Any Benchmade issues yet
I was so nervous the whole time that you were gonna get hurt but you made a lot of great points. I am officially off the fence about getting a zt. Thank you
stumble into this video. I only got one ZT (0562cf). Hitted hard against palm and then wood. I don't get whats wrong with your knives either. In any case, you've got a great collection there, will start following you and see whats ZT have to say. Don't hurt your knives! ; )
A frame lock is designed to be stronger when gripped by the hand it applies more pressure on the lock bar
John Scrivani another person said the same thing. This was my response.
Kyle Manko 100%. But that doesn’t mean they should fail as easily as my zt knives. Notice how none of my spyderco knives failed the same test all of my zt knives did. My Hinderer, crk, microtech, strider, spyderco etc. all easily passed the test.
Also when you’re using a knife for harder tasks, your hands aren’t always on the lock bar, so the lock needs to be strong on its own.
If you think knives are just meant to slice and that testing them by putting pressure on the spine is unfair, why bother with buying locking knives are all?
Spine whack tests are meaningless on slipjoints and friction folders, but in my opinion they're totally valid on any knife that has a mechanism designed to lock the blade open even when force is applied to the spine.
Alexandre Aubrey actually in real life (with the knife open) your index finger will be right under the flipper, making it impossible to close.
Still, it’s kind of disconcerting for a knife marketed as overbuilt and tough for its locks to fail by wacking it on a roll of painter’s tape. I had a knife lock fail on me while cutting a zip tied bundle. In a pinch grip, I slid the knife under the zip tie blade up, pulled up using the tip as a fulcrum and lock failed, knife shut half way. I didn’t cut myself but it opened my eyes to lock failure. Now this was a $50 modus, but should it happen to $200 plus ZTs “built like a tank”?
Name one realistic situation where you'd be using your knife and something would be constantly whacking on the spine.
I think what people mean by hard use is the blade is thick and the knife is heavy but they never even heavily used a ZT.
Thanks for sharing. Made me a little nervous, but I tested my 2020 ZT0450 and it locks up solid, no blade play and I smacked it against the tape pretty hard with no issues
I spine whacked my 0566 way harder a few times and the lock did not fail.
Wejustmight die I just tried my 0566 elmax and didn’t fail
Yeah the 566 isn't going to fail. My 566 has insanely strong lock up and its actually almost impossible to even close one handed. This issue is going to vary model by model and knife by knife
As much as i didnt want it to, my 0566 lock does fail. Thats the only one of my ZT's that does it.
Yeah this is unfortunate but luckily my ZTs are for cutting and not for prying or wacking things.
Why dont buy a slip joint?
Spyderco knives are for cutting too, and they probably won't close on your hand if something bumps your knife the wrong way. Nice little added bonus for the same or less money.
@@phillipnunya6793 Guarantee it wont close on your hand in your daily life. Let me know when it happens to you. Yeah Spyderco is great but some people like nicer knives.
@@northernninety7 You won't be crashing your car every day either. That's not the point. You can get knives from other companies that use similar materials, have similar build quality, sell for similar prices (or less), and have functional locks. If you use knives for more than cutting string and opening letters, that matters.
@@phillipnunya6793 Then more power to you for saving money on a cheaper knife while preventing your fingers being cut off by a ZT. Sounds like the possibility of one closing on your fingers is a risk for you. Good choice by you to eliminate your risk.
In all my years of using a knife, I never even remotely did a spine whack until I started watching RUclips videos on knives.
Thanks, you preformed the most important test for safety and security, both of which it failed.
So I very much appreciate the video, it saved me from buying a DANGEROUS AND INEFFECTIVE FOLDER, FOR MY secondary? You might have saved my life!!!!
Why do all my knives have lock rock? Proceeds to spine whack all his knives 🤦🏻♂️
Because he probably tampered with them. I've never had a problem with one. Own more than this.
Chris Rock he did not tamper with them at all and he has no reason to.
@@chrisrock4428 0:25
@PESTIL3NCE yes your with me 24/7 and know what I use and don't. 🤣🤣 try again. Many videos??
I counted 9. Lmao. Many. Hundreds saying how great they are.
just tested all my 4 zts none of the locks failed and there were no lock rock. dont know what's happening with yours mate
Simple, he set out to hammer on the knife until it failed. He was not using it in the correct manner. Any tool can be destroyed with some effort. That’s like holding down the gas pedal in a car and leaving it in 1st gear until the engine blows up. Does that mean it’s not a good car? No, it just means somebody doesn’t know what they’re doing or how to use tools properly and how they were intended to be used. It’s generally smart to use the “sharp side” of the knife when cutting. But then again the original poster could be 5 years old and not know how to use a knife the correct way.
@@anthonyberardi9941 I'm surprised he isn't throwing them at a brick wall and complaining that they wont go into it. LOL
I wanna also say that the overall concept of a "hard use" folder is a complete lie. Folding knives are light cutting tools, period. The only "hard use" knives are fixed blades. Any action other than cutting (prying, scraping, etc) has a specific tool, and a folding knife just is not that tool.
Nathaniel except the 4 Max. 😎
Chopped down several medium sized trees with my Benchmade Onslaught 741 without any problem.
exactly my hard use is my Essee the rest? For show.
You have no idea what your talking about. Just sayin
There is no sensible real world scenario. Folding knives should have less limits, and stronger stuff. Theyre shittier than guns right now.
I dont got the right tool, I aint gonna get that tool, the fixed blade is dead back there, and I'm behind enemy lines.
What do? PRAY FOR ALIENS TO BLAST THE WALLS!!
The obviously, the exterior frame lock feature, is a design failure. Many people try to avoid pressing hard or even on the handle and they noted it disengages the exterior frame lock.
It could be even weaker if they use carbon fiber, titanium or aluminum. The Ken Onion 303 or 308 has that exterior frame lock feature.
If you look at the ZT 350 by Ken Onion? Onion has an interior lock. I suspect Onion knows this a defect. The frame lock feature is an elegant feature and justifies another $100 bucks in price but is not safe.
My cheap Ken Onion desiged, Kershaw's will not do this. They have interior frame locks. If you want a superior lock up? I suggest buying cheap knives like Smith & Wesson, Schrade, Kershaw, CRKT, Cold Steel, as you note Spyderco knives or any other interior frame lock knife.
Just got a ZT 0909 yesterday. Saw your video and got totally freaked out. Took the 0909 outside and hit it on a piece of wood 10 times. Absolutely no lock fail. The took my 0562 and 0452 out and tried them as well. No lock fails. I don’t have that lock rock on any of the knives though. Send those back for warranty service.
Edit: hit the 0909 on the ground and I still can’t make this happen.
Also allot of my zt have lighter lock bar tension. That could be a factor as well.
Please be respectful in the comments. Thanks
The question now arises: If you ask your local machinist to make stop pins with the bigger diameter
so the vertical play will be removed - will it allow to close deep enough into the frame ?
Probably Yes, perhaps the detent ball might not reach fully deep into the detent hole
and some models may fully lose the detent, some will have it less strong..
neroknives In what example in the real world would the knife be used in this manner? Serious question. I am new to the knife world and wondering what application a knife would be used in this way.
Richard Salemme the point was just to show the zt has issues with there lock. And that they truly aren’t over built. If you want to make a knife that losses cutting performance, to me over built to Handel harder tasks. The lock should be able to stand up to it.
Prying, snap cuts, whittling wood, pulling out of a material quickly if your blade binds up. If you’re just cutting paper, and popping a string on your shirt. You’ll never have to worry about it.
neroknives that didn't answer the question I asked. I am wondering under what type of use the knife would be subjected to the impact to the spine that you demonstrated.
In the uses you have already mentioned isn't pressure applied the lock bar to prevent it from disengaging?
Richard Salemme Pressure doesn’t need to just be necessarily apply to the spine, to make a knife with a bad lock fail.
In the second part of what I said above, a snap cut into a material, you generally pull out of that material quickly. When pulling out quickly the lock can fail. Also if you’re digging into something and have a lateral force applied to the pivot, and or blade, those kinds of forces are the same basic kinds of forces as pressure to the spine.
To anyone saying a "hard use" knife is only meant for cutting, you guys haven't been put into a desperate situation with the lack of equipment. When I was in the military, we use our knives for all sort of things, removing jammed rounds from a gun receiver, hammering a seized take down pin to dismantle our firearms, striking ferro rods, etc. Hard use knives are knives meant to be used and abused well beyond it's intended purpose and carry on trucking. That's why I only carry a Cold Steel Recon 1 tanto in S35VN, I simply don't trust any other knives for proper hard use.
Fantastic, just spent a small fortune on my first zt and the very first video I see in my recommendations is this, I spent all afternoon researching zt knives on RUclips and all I seen was nothing but love. Unbelievable.
as Chris reeve said the lock up/angle is one of the most important things on a folding knife, and don't think there's any lock-rock on his knifes, vary interesting review I enjoyed watching.
When the knife is in an actual "hard use" situation, your hand is going to be putting pressure on the lockbar. I'm sorry but there is no real situation where the blade will have pressure put on it like that. Especially without pressure on the lock bar from your grip on the knife. Every time you hit the spine of your blade while its locked you slightly dent the lock interface and possibly bend the lockbar thus why all your ZT knives have lock-rock. To compare the delica's lock back mechanism being better than the frame lock of the 801 or 350 is a vague comparison. You're being unfair to the Zero Tolerance knives by not having a proper grip for that type of use/pressure on the blade (you should never hit the spine of your folding knife like that). I guarantee if you grip that knife just like you were about to stab something hard, the pressure from your fingers/hand on the lock bar will not allow the knife to shut on its own. That's how a lock bar is better than a lock back. Put a little pressure on the lock bar(towards over-locking the knife) then see if the tension breaks as easily.
Zt just sucks.
@@heavyhands2293 No it doesn't, give me a good reason why thats factual
I just did the same thing to 6 of my zt knives and my brother and cousin did it to there zt knives and all of these fucking knives did this same exact thing.. you like the name and your a fan boy. The steel is good but all knife company's can get good steel. It's personal experience with zt knives.. I think they suck but they are pretty.
@@samms.712 ZT was my favorite brand. I didn't want to believe this could happen. But when I tested my nine zt's, which had never been used, six failed using way less force than shown here. ZT....all show and no go.
Think of how many cold steels you could buy for one zt
I’d rather have a spyderco 9/10
Lock failure with the spine wack can be fixed by tightening the pivot.
I stumbled on this by accident BUT now that I see the topic, I have to disagree my m390 zt0620cf is on me at all times, it is used a half dozen times a day minimum and I just did the same test as you and it did indeed fail, I tried it also with a direware s90 and it did not fail. BUT this knife has never failed or injured me even when prying open a can or tightening a screw on my land cruiser so I think the back of the spine test dosent really apply. spyderco are thin blade that snap ZT dont.
I sent three knives with failing locks into zt for warranty service. A 0452cf, 0393sw, and a Kershaw link. They came back today and are no longer failing. They didn't indicate what they did but it looks to me like they replaced the lockbar inserts with taller ones. Gives me a little more confidence that if I do buy another Kai knife and it has a failing lock, I can send it back and get it corrected.
They all just need to be taken apart and the lock bar slightly bent in more. This would give a slightly later lockup and fill in the gap near the stop pin so that the lock-rock goes away. People get all crazy when I talk about bending stuff, but otherwise, this stuff happens. Not ridiculous bending. Just a hair.
ZT prides themselves on that smooth, droppy action, but a big component of that is having very little lockbar pressure, and I think it's a mistake.
I think the moral of the story is that a person shouldn't have to go bending stuff at a couple of hundred bucks a piece.
I've never been a ZT guy. Never really anti-ZT either. I do find it funny though that a tiny Delica is apparently more "built like a tank" than those tanks.
I love this channel, dude.
I never understood why ZT opted for about a 10% lockup. I get it will eventually wear, but it might take 10,000 opens to get to a 50% lockup.
Why would one need to take apart a +-200$ knife to adjust it, when the companies literal mantra is "built like ..." It's like saying one would need to "adjust" a Jeep to 4x4...
@@zacpdx
Absolutely with ya on that. I'd write more, but I'm in the middle of adjusting the jeep I paid double what I should've for, to 4x4. This thing didn't even come with the 4x4 tool!
"He bought a Jeep". Poor bugger.
I think it's a little unfair to compare it to a lockback like the Delica. If you want to do spine whack tests you should keep the comparison to similar(in their lock up method) knives.
Wacking a spine on a hard surface is a ridiculous test, I can’t think of a single real-life scenario where such force will ever be applied to the lock, because when you’re cutting, you don’t cut with the back of the knife, you cut with the edge.
Pulling out, falling down, dropping and its ready, not broken
This is exactly why I only have one zt. It’s an 0550, and that was enough for me. On the other hand I have 4 pm2 ‘s.
Not a knife collector but a user, I have a normal s&w model and have used it as shown in this video also in a rush have broken off the tip and ordered kershaw, so nero is correct there are people that use their knives for many things in a rush
Use it as a knife.. It works better.. Generally I use the blade and it's not a hammer..
Matthew Whitson right on I said the same thing!
Dont you like your fingers lol? Even if you dont hit it on the back, if you cut hard wood and pull back it can fail. Zt is shit..
@@polarweis Really? ZT is probably the best in both performance and build quality in the US based on a more affordable standpoint. I hold them in a higher regard that Benchmade. You people seem to forget these are tools for basic edc cutting tasks, not hammers.
@@samms.712 hammer or not.. a lock should Stay locked under minimum pressure. It would be rather easy for zt to improve their locks.(many Chinese companies can do it so why not Them) but i guess if their customers, like you, dont care about it why would they. But hey allemaal knife people here who use there knives like they use them.
@@polarweis whats a good knife with a strong lock that you would recommend?
Because everyone holds a knife with two fingers insuring they aren't putting pressure on the lock bar while whacking the spine... in daily use. Hold it like you would actually hold it and that would never happen.
limixz28 like this? ruclips.net/video/u1lhCNTM0rg/видео.html
So then it would close on your fingers?
limixz28 “would never happen” wow sounds like you are so sure of yourself. Then again you’re wrong,
Until the blade closes down on your fingers. If you spend this much on a knife this SHOULD NOT HAPPEN - period.
Thanks I was in the process of purchasing one today and now I'm not going to waste $150. :-)
This is one of the main reasons I switched to carrying a Bradford guardian 3. I love my ZT’s, I have 5, but won’t be getting another.
I only have a zt 0462, and it has zero lock rock and wont close when spine whacked. Im not sure if lock rock only comes from factory. All of those spine wack tests could be wearing the material and causing some lock rock.
ZTs manual (the one that came with my knife) also says "any use other than cutting (such as prying or twisting) is considered misuse and abuse" in the next paragraph it also says "ZT knives are not intended for throwing or stabbing; they are designed for cutting purposes only". Of the manufacture says its only for cutting, its probably for cutting. The beefyness of the knives are probably more stylistic, so that they last, and so that they can endure hard cutting.
Chase so the built like a tank is a Lie? and they all had lock rock before the test. And the first lock test was on the palm of my hand. If my hand can deform a steel insert, that would be amazing. You can see the first test I did on my instagram.
The reason I tried that first test, was because I tried cutting a thicker zip tie and my zt lock failed and folded, so I checked all them. They all failed. Prior to that, none of them ever had any type of spine whacking. It’s on zt not me.
And if you watch my zt comparison video, you’ll see that the new zt had lock rock right not of the box.
Chase ps I also have brass knuckles that say they’re only paperweights, and firework that say they’re only a novelty item. Companies say these thing to protect themselves. But with a little common sense we should be able to see what they can really be used for 😉
neroknives Can you explain what exactly you were doing when cutting the zip tie that caused the lock to fail?
Like were you simply applying pressure to the edge side (as opposed to the spine side) and it even failed there?! Because regardless of what one thinks of spine whacks tests and their relevance to real world usage, if you managed to get the knife to fail just simply cutting a zip tie and applying pressure to the CUTTING EDGE and it failed even this.... Good grief! That's a major problem!
These vids are great and I only recently found your channel. I'll be watching lots more AFTER I go check out my ZT knives now! Haha
topfueljunkie100 thanks I’m glad you like the videos. Just posted a new one.
But it was a thicker zip tie, So I slid the knife under it, then I twisted the knife so the cutting edge out be under the sip tie (I do this all the time) and when I was twisting to position the cutting edge to the zip tie the knife failed. I ever had that happen before, so I did a spine wack to my hand and the lock failed again. So then I checked the rest of my zt knives. And they Pretty much all failed
So did you send them to ZT and what came of it? Searched on your channel but I can't find the follow up vid.
I am a professional hitman and I was just contacted by a high ranking ZT executive to end these videos. Luckily for Nero I'm more of a SPYDERCO guy. As such I will not be accepting the contract. Thanks for the video Nero keep it up brother!
Tape roll knife smacking is new to me.
I guess I haven't been using my knives properly for the last 40 years.
I use them for cutting stuff without tape roll knife smacking.
Haven't had one problem with my ZT's ever.
I guess I haven't smacked enough tape. Or,....it's because a framelock was designed to be held in you hand while using it, making the lock engage even more securely.
I don't think you understand how it works.
LoL how about ZT made a good lock lmao. I'ts fascinating how fanboys will defend a flaw just cause of the brand. I swear if these were Chinesium gas station knives you'd be like "That's what you get for paying $5."
Im sorry but I still find this a null point. I also agree with whomever said it's a knife and knives are made for cutting. If you need to hammer something, use a hammer. If you gotta pry something, get a pry bar. He'll if you think you wanna baton wood, use an actual fixed blade survival knife wacking the back of your knife to get it fi fail proves nothing except, a knife iit's a horrible hammer
Rooster Diggs not trying to be an asshole. But if I take a Spyderco Delica, and a benchmade adamas. Every single person I show them to that not apart of the knife community will say the adamas is built for more then just cutting. And they would have no problem prying or doing whatever they need to do with it. But then when you ask some people in the knife community they say both are made for the same thing. Even tho one is about 3 oz with a thin stick and the other is 9oz with a thick stock. Sorry they are clearly not made for the same thing. And It’s just mind blowing to me With how much people in the knife community baby knives.
Rooster Diggs it’s like the people that aren’t in the knife community know more about knives then people in the knife community ( in this example) Clearly the bigger heavier thicker knife, that sacrifices cutting performance to do other tasks better such as prying and chopping. Isn’t just meant for cutting. I just can’t Wrap my mind around how people don’t see that.
@@neroknives1828 ... You fail to see that because you miss the reason, it's purely fashion! Almost every damned folder today has too thick stock. Have nothing to do with actual use as you seem to think. It's all about selling a product.
MrAliaspostmortem well that’s not true. Knives with thick stock serve a purpose just like ones with thin stock. They just have different tasks in mind. Granted allot of knives today are just make to look cool, and free drop. But I really don’t buy them n
Just tested my ZT0350 and it held strong
My 0350 holds strong too, all 4 of them
I notices he only tests frame lock ZTs, I have 4x zt0350, line lockers and none faile. Maybe it's just a frame lock.
Also I can't think of any situation where I'd bash the spine of my blade on anything
@@bobhunter5815 Neither can most people, but for some reason a lot of idiots consider it a fair and accurate test.
@@robertlefeaux mate I use the day to day testing method. If it holds up doing what I need it to do from day to day it passes.
After seeing this I dug out and tested every knife I have from the ZTs to the MTechs and not a single liner lock failed, not even the cheap unbranded K-Mart (Australias wall mart) knives showed any sign of failing.
I'm thinking he's done something to that knife to make it fair just for the video.
@@bobhunter5815 Could be, but still doesnt change the fact that the spine whack "test" is not an accurate test for a locks strength.
Sir, I will give your your point that if I bang the snot out of my zt knifes like you did the locking mechanism will jump and fail. I do not use my knifes in this fashion. Now, because my zt knifes do not have a hole drilled in the middle of the blade the blade is much stronger than a spyderco. I also have a few of the spyderco knifes as well. When I place a spyderco in my hands it is generally for slicing, thin blade and thin handle. The at knifes are thicker in both areas so if I am going into the woods or working in the yard I carry a zt. Their blades won't snap off, or the rips won t break off like spyderco. They are both decent knifes, I won't even bring up the cold steel recon 1 which I carry to cover both of the above manufacturers deficiencies.
I did this test and checked all the lock bars on my Chinese Kershaw's and they all passed with flying colors
obviously something is up with your knifes. I have 8 ZT's. after watching your video I tested mine. None of mine have this issue. when I try to make them fail the lockup gets tighter. Hopefully they fix yours.
111111111Tiger good to hear. That give me a little more faith they’ll be able to fix them.
neroknives my 2 0350’s stayed open fine. I whacked the shit out of them on a piece of wood too. I’m curious why yours aren’t staying open, you’d think ZT wouldn’t have these problems with a slogan like “proudly overbuilt in the USA.”
I’m open minded, so I tried this with the following ZT knives: two 0562CF’s, two 0452CF’s, and one 0450CF. I whacked them against a workbench top, and hit one hard enough to send it flying. None showed any sign of wanting to close. Yours did, so I dunno....
My 350 and 609 didnt do this either so not sure why some people do and sone dont
Same with my 350. I think we need a lack of booty
I have an 0620 and day 1 out of the box I tested this, it failed. But I don't really care to be honest. It's a knife and every day it's served me well. Everything else about the knife is perfect. Don't hold off on buying a zt because of this, in everyday life this isn't a real issue.
The 0350 is a beast and made for very hard use.
Can you also do a 'roll-of-tape' comparison vid to see how different makes (Duct Tape, Sellotape etc) hold up against repeated whacking? Stickyness, end-finding and deformity are real issues for us adhesive tape collectors. Perhaps a review of the now famous Gorilla-Tape (which I find hard to unravel with speed)....?
Tell that to my brother that went through 3 tours with an 0350. It got hard use it looks like garbage now (works fine.) My brother is a green beret. I bought him that knife. He bought himself a knew tiger strip 0350 and contracted with that knife for a few year's.
Your brother is not a Green Beret.
@@cogitaretoo Yeah? I would love to have you come out of cyberspace and tell him that. You wouldn't have the b@ll$ to tell my 78 yr old father he wasn't a marine either ya spineless troll.
@@cogitaretoo troll
@@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744 I bought one for my husband. He's a welder so only American steel for him.
@@sherylhamilton3479 I live in NY. So crucible steel is a plus and yes my father and brother also only carry USA made knives.
You are causing the problem by hitting the spine of the knife . It’s pushing the insert in . So you get the lock rock . I can see having to adjust the insert so the knife lock up is tight . You been around knives you should know that by now .
Wait so we aren’t supposed to use these things as hammers, pry bars or screwdrivers? That’s news to me. I’m not super-tactical though.
Hey that wasn't very nice!
you made my ZT's cry 😐 and my Spyderco & Chris Reeves giggle 🤔
What you are talking about is exactly why I won't ever own another ZT or Kershaw. I had three 0630s in a row, brand new and sent directly from ZT, that had lock failure right out of the box. The first one closed shut on my fingers when it got stuck in cardboard and I reversed the direction to pull it out. You don't have to try to use a these like "a hammer", as some of you have put it, for the knife to fail. ZTs have thick blades and sometimes get stuck in the medium being cut - that's all it takes.
Exactly. Six of my nine zt's failed using way less force than shown here.
This is yet another great comment because it describes exactly a way that ZT's poor engineering or poor quality control make for a DANGEROUS knife when used in simply NORMAL, ORDINARY tasks!
People often complain about "when do you ever put pressure on the spine of the knife in daily tasks? That's not normal and never happens in real world usage so you shouldn't whine that it failed!" but that is plainly FALSE and I'm so glad you have shown a legitimate and ordinary task which puts pressure on the spine of the blade (pulling upwards on the knife, putting pressure on the spine) when it became pinched in the cardboard you were cutting.
Clearly, since it closed on your hand this makes it DANGEROUS and a complete FAILURE of the locking mechanism which SHOULD be fixed by ZT but for some unknown reason they seem completely ignorant of how to fix this. This is why I won't ever buy another ZT again.
I've bought 2 and sent them both back to ZT for this problem (and to have the blades resharpened) and not only did they send the knives back with edges WORSE than when I sent them in (they were sharpened at an atrocious 25 degrees PER SIDE!) but one of the knives even had BURN marks on the edge telling me they wrecked the heat treat in that spot on the blade! Are you kidding me?!
To top it all off, BOTH the knive's lock issues were NOT fixed and one of them (my 0630) was even WORSE than before!
As further evidence of ZT's incompetence and yet another display of how a normal every day usage of the knife leads to a dangerous lock failure, when I use the knife's Emerson Wave feature to deploy the blade, the simple act of the blade flipping open creates enough pressure being sent back into the lock bar that the lock instantly pops free and releases the blade immediately after it just locked open.
So simply using the knife's built in wave opening feature and having it open via this method (and not even doing it very hard or fast! Just a normal deployment) creates enough resulting "bounce back" type of pressure to be sent spineward and into the lock bar causing it to fail.
So if I open the knife one of the ways it was designed to be opened, I could unknowingly be about to use the knife with the lock unengaged which is obviously dangerous.
This is completely unacceptable and after reading all the stories here about knives being sent back repeatedly to ZT and never being truly fixed, this is why I feel I was ripped off with 2 junk knives from ZT.
Having a warranty isn't any good when the company is too incompetent to fix a simple problem, let alone the several issues I sent mine in for, NONE of which were fixed! ALL of which were WORSE when returned to me!
@@topfueljunkie100 Yet I still see comments about how this is not a problem for some people. I think they're just knowingly ignoring it, just to make themselves think that THEIR ZT's are perfectly fine. Making excuses about how your grip makes the lock stronger, as if a lock's strength should ever have to depend on how you hold it. These knives are dangerous and I'll never use them. You think zt will ever do anything about it? Issue a mass recall? I'm not holding my breath.
@@abc456f Yeah, I agree, I think some are knowingly ignoring it to make themselves feel better while some others are just plain ignorant of what's really going on yet they feel the need to try to discredit those of us who know firsthand what's happening. Seems there's a lot of people on YT here who are just eager to share a contrary opinion even if they haven't really thought thru it yet!
I completely agree about the lock mechanism not being dependant upon how you hold it. You'd think that'd be obvious right?! Just wish those who make such silly comments about how (they think) the lock won't fail if you hold it right would understand that their "theory" doesn't really hold any water! I know, I've tried!
To those of them who might see this comment, I've tried this very thing myself to see if it might prevent the lock from failing and it definitely does not. Even Nero himself said this elsewhere how it only added about maybe 30% strength into the lock but never completely prevented its failure.
As far as ZT doing anything about this issue, I doubt there'll be any sort mass recall unless there were some sort of class action lawsuit or a big enough impact to their business by enough of us bringing awareness to the issue that their sales were impacted or at least that they feared this could happen by enough bad publicity. But the likelihood of this happening is pretty slim just as you already expect.
It's a real shame because I DO like their designs but I just wish they functioned as they should and weren't a danger to use!
First of your vids I've watched and love your honesty and sensible attitude.
I did the same test with all my ZT knives especially the 0630 Emerson model. I had no issues that you were able to produce. I will agree with you on the Spyderco as I carry the PM2 as well, they lock up solid.
Watch RUclips’s vinninull’s destruction test on a zt 0550. I have a zt0562 and never had an issue with it. The frame lock will not fail if your hand is firmly placed on the handle. Believe me.
Bullshit
In all honestly, this argument is BS. There's literally no normal use for a knife that involves hitting the spine against something. If you are using them for cutting and the lock fails, yeah then there's a problem! For anything else there's prybars and hammers
So you're fine with your expensive knife failing? What's the point of having a lock at that point.
If I’m paying over-price for a knife, it better be over-build. Just being able to cut as a knife is not over build .
My ZT 0770CF and 0350TS have never failed on me
As an aside.... Spyderco linerlocks tend to use the Terzuola radiused lockface where the tangent of the radius doesn't actually happen at the far end, but rather, a tiny bit toward the center. This makes it less likely to fail (but not impossible -- I had a well-used Military fail with light spine pressure.) The ZT lockfaces are generally linear and steep.
I've read quite a few of those comments, including the long thread started by Thomas Denton. Here's a scenario. You're using your heavy duty ZT (it could be any brand but we'll go with this) to do some serious cutting and somehow the knife slips from your hand and drops to the floor, or onto a rock or log from about a metre (3 feet). It lands at an angle that cause the lock to fail. When you pick it up and 'lock' it back into place, how much do you trust that expensive knife now? You dropped it and the lock failed. A 'safety' lock that fails after a smallish knock is NOT a safety lock. End of story.
Six of my nine zt's failed. What if your blade gets stuck in whatever you're cutting and you need to pull it upward to free it? Goodbye fingers. I've spent approx. $1500 on what are basically slip joints.
You make great videos, this is a super underrated channel. Awesome vid, it’s clear you know your stuff.
Riley Bracelin thanks allot.
I have the zt 850 BLK with no problem I banged it on a 2x4. I really don't love zt I'm a hard core Spyderco fan boy I won't lie. But I've never hard used my two zts but my manix 2 has been my work knife for 6 years. I work in HVAC and have cut through plenums, flex and metal duct work and not a single problem. I once dropped it from two stories because I set it next to a window and it fell into trash container and no problem at all. All the people saying I'll use a hammer for a hammering job. Yeah that's true but most of them haven't been deep in an attic with a missing tool or what not. A knife will be a lot of different tools in a pinch.
I’ve got an 0566 that’s over 10 years old and been through hell. The G10 is actually worn almost smooth. Still holds solid. Maybe it’s newer knives. I don’t know, I’m not a fancy knife kind of guy though
None of my ZT's will fail like that. 🤔 I prefer Spyderco mostly though.
This reminds me of the time that Cold steel did that bullshit ass video "Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 vs. Cold Steel Code 4". Where Cold Steel spin whacked the spine of the Sebenza 21 and when it failed said that the IRL(Reeve Integral lock) was too weak and flimsy. In the real world no one spine whacks their knives!!!
I believe the geometry/torsional motion of cutting thrusting etc is just not ideal for liner and frame locks. Especially in high stress self defense. I can't imagine the special forces messing with a frame lock even as a backup to a fixed blade.
Not saying you're completely full of it, but I just did both the tape & lock Rock tests to my ZT0393 and it passed both with flying colors.
If the reliability counts on chance, it is not reliable
I Believe Spine Wacking might Deform the Lockbar enough to cause Lockrock and also causing the blade to close .Zts design on their locks are more susceptible to this over other Knife Brands I have over a dozen or so Zts I never plan on the Spine Wack Exercise. When Your Zts come back from warranty don't over do Spine Wacking I believe it may cause Damage to Your knives.Spine wack cold steel knives they were designed to not close the blade when spine Wacking. You have a nice collection of knives treat them Babies Right.i subscribed Great video Sincerely Thomas Raymond of Fresno California.
Thomas Raymond all the knives on the table except for two of them had ever had pressure to the spine. So I had nothing to do with the lock rock, Nora where the steel inserts damaged in any way. When I got them back from zt, the first knife I hit on my hand failed the first time. I sold them all.
I have 6 zt‘s with no lock rock on any of them planning on ordering another one
I'm not a big fan of ZT and I don't own a single one. However, I do own many knives ranging from $20 to $200 and have never seen authentic knives fail like that entire ZT range.
Thanks for saving me the trouble 👍
Same here! I'll just keep patiently waiting for a Hinderer XM-18 3.5
Cedric and Ada promoted this video, and I greatly appreciate it. A nice psa you have here. Liked and subbed.
Never had a ZT fail on me... i have broken the locks on three spydercos...
No you didnt... your lying... don't try to play that card
I keep coming back to this video to read comments. lol.
There's no point in a locking folder if the lock fails like this, by the logic everyone here is using there is no point in having a linerlock or a framelock at all. We should all be using slip joints or friction folders because there is NO reason a lateral force should ever be applied to the spine of the blade.
What a bunch of kids, ZT has a real problem here and they still haven't addressed it.
You said it right there: Built for "more than just cutting"? Thats not what hard use means, dude. Use knife for to cut. Use screwdriver for to screw. Use prybar for to pry. Etc.
ALL MY SPYDERCO FRAME LOOKS WILL DO THE SAME , THE TUFF DID THAT ON ITS FIRST DAY
Mark W INTERESTING! NONE OF MY SPYDERCO, EMERSON, MICROTECH, STRIDER, FERRUM FORGE, HINDERER, or CRK DID!
@@neroknives1828 I haven't dared beat my microtechs:p ohhh maybe I'll try my 9 framelock bms
Mark W give them a shot. I think I should a couple spyderco knives not failing in this video. And then I also show the budget kershaw being able to pull a nail, and the 450 can’t.
@@neroknives1828 I could close my hinderer with bare hands. A frame lock isn't very strong.
I've always thought zero tolerance knives were overly hyped and overpriced. I'm glad this video was made. No excuse for these knives to have these kinds of issues for the price we're paying.
Thank you for this. You just saved me $240.00 dollars on a zt0456.
My ZT always failed with any pressure. IMO they are all flawed. they are built and marketed as a tactical knife, pry, stab etc.. People whatever.. you hit a bone or any obstacle with the pressure the wrong way and your fingers are gone
Just tried this on my brand new ZT 0452 CF and not one single failure! Maybe a pre 2018 issue???
Leo Armstrong idk. It’s been a issue for years apparently. I think it just comes down to luck
Everyone with their dislike thumb down just went and checked their failing ZT's. LOL
Tested this with my 0220, 0452, 0456, 0462, 0562, 0920, and their locks did not fail, neither did I notice any lock rock.
I like big back locks and I can not lie. Big Triad back locks are my favorite if I can not have a fixed blade. I am going to get the tree frog or tad pole knives that have one or two blade stop pins keeping them from shutting on you fingers. I think they are from BHK or is it LT Wright or both? I made a pin to put in the little hole on the handle that would stop the blade from closing if the Triad lock were to ever fail on my 4 Max from Cold Steel.
People say lock strength isn't important, but then they won't buy slipjoints. I don't think locks need to meet Cold Steels standards, but on the other hand they shouldn't fail with light taps as my ZT 909 does. Locks should have to pass some minimal standard.
amo757 I agree. I care more about lock longevity then lock strength. I know my sabenza doesn’t have a strong lock. But it’s still strong enough for anything I’ll use it for. But the zt did fail on me, that’s where I draw the line.
Cold Steel Knives will not fail like this.
Steve austin very true
Yes . But they are not"so sexy" for youtubers. Cold Steel knives are make for "workers".
punk22450 right, just like Zero Tolerance knives. Hell, I could certainly break a cold steel knife. All it would take it a clamp and a hammer. Idk what the fuck that will prove either though.???
That was both interesting and informative mate really enjoyed.look forward to there return from ZT.thanks for sharing your findings.this is community working for each other.atb paddy👍☺🍀