There is definitely a difference. I tried moving my Phase 90 before my distortions/fuzz (I own nothing tame like an "overdrive") and it sounded much "safer" and "subtler" than when I put it in after that with the rest of the modulations. As a result, I quickly put it back where it was, after the distortions where it is used to push things over the edge instead of blend in. If you don't want a crazy sounding phaser, put it before the distortion/overdrive/fuzz. If you like crazy, put it after.
MXR Phaser pedal is a great pedal because it can go before or after distortion. If you want to sweep the whole sound put it after distortion or in the effects loop. The high end is most noticeably "sweeped" this way. If you want a soft wha sounding sweep of the guitar tone, put it before distortion. Depends what effect you're trying to get.
@@bradlivey7867 You're wrong on that., he used both. www.guitarworld.com/gear/eddie-van-halen-how-he-created-his-signature-sound-using-mxrs-phase-90-and-flanger-pedals
it's a pretty simple concept really. Treat your overdrive pedal like you would an amp... If you run the phaser into a clean amp, you get a very clean, pronounced phase tone. If you run it into an amp thats overdriving itself, then the overdrive is going to be the more pronounced effect because it's the amp thats overdriving, aka the last thing in your chain. once you wrap your head around that it kinda makes it easier to understand. phase before dirt: big dirt dirt before phase: big phase.
I have all of my pedals before my overdrives (Fulltone GT-500 and TS-808) except delay, reverb and looper. I had read a long time ago Joe Walsh set his effects this way. I tried it and it works for me too. Great demo.
I have a phase 90 and found it 'offensive' placed after my Drive. Then I watched a RUclips video which broke all pedal placement rules. I put my Phase 90 'before' my drive and it 'calmed' it down, also reduced the volume increase MXR built into the pedal. Very happy ... thanks Gearmandude.
Another interesting thing to note is that the wiring inside amplifiers are very much like the signal chain for pedals. Location is everything. Almost every amp ever made puts EQ, Reverb, and Tremolo at the end of the circuit, and puts the gain stages (distortion) in the first of the circuit. Some low gain early Fender amps put the EQ before most of the gain stages, but they don't have very good high gain tone.
My view on it is, if you want a Van Halen-esque colourful soloing tone from your phase, put it before dirt, and if you want your phase to sound big and rhythmic when using dirt, put it after. It's down to your personal application, I've always used it before :)
here's my take. With the drive pedal in front, you get a driven tone with a sweep. with the phase in front, you get a kind of messy sweep that has grit to it. so... its really personal preference with what you're lookin for. for me, the standard overdrive into the phase sounds the best.
Glad I stumbled upon this. When I first came upon pedal chains, my friend told me the "correct" way to order them was to put the phaser AFTER the OD. We tried this and it sounded like shit, so I switched the order of the two pedals. It sounds much more natural that way, and I had always wondered why.
Generally, I place my phaser before dirt. This way I give a smooth watery feel to soft overdriven signaIs. Ok to play Van Halen and Rush's early sound, from 1st to 2112.
I think it sounds better with the phaser after the Luther. I find that with most of the pedals I've played with, the chain setup makes a difference, even if sometimes it's only a subtle one. The Micro POG, for example, sounds almost completely different before vs after a fuzz pedal.
I've always heard that modulation should come at the end of the signal chain. In my experience that sounds best. Distortions distort. Putting distortion first will amplify the modulation effect. Putting it before will distort the modulation signal, making it duller. There's a bigger difference if you put the modulation in the effects loop of the amp, vs in the input signal chain. It's more subtle in the FX loop, but sounds clean & beautiful. It sounds more harsh, but more rich in the input.
My theory is to put all modulation pedals before overdrives and distortion pedals simply because if you're not using pedals for your dirt but are using the amp's distortion then the modulation pedal are before the dirt anyway. I also think that the phaser reacts better to an unaffected signal directly from the guitar. Unless you're running a compressor the comp also gives the phaser a nice consistent signal to work with.
Some ideas are just daring into the unknown so much ahead of their time they almost sound insane. Fear not, there will be time where no one will be shamed for stacking modulations and drives like some tonal sandwich.
Phase in front of my OD sounds much more complete .. Not trying to go to outer space just want some texture .. This is the way EVH does it.. So Hell I'm a believer ...
john frangi Yeah same man, that crazy rat. The phase 90 also has some boost to it, which i dont like, so i put it before my distortion to dull the boost.
The difference is whether or not you want your modulation pedal to modulate your distorted tone, or your distortion pedal to distort your modulated tone. The difference would be far more noticeable if you tried the same experiment with an overdrive and a chorus pedal (particularly with the rate set fairly high), or an overdrive and a delay pedal.
of course there's a difference. because the amount of distortion in the output is directly related to the input signal, any that affects the input signal will result in changes to the level of distortion. So, putting the distortion first will result in a fully distorted signal going to the phase 90. that's why the sound is more richly distorted across the entire phase effect when the pedals are in that prder. It's the same when i want a tight chunky distortion, i put a short delay after the distortion -- it slaps back a fully distorted signal. ..you get a tight Anthrax chug. If i put the delay before it, the sound muddies a bit and the delay outputs a straight clean signal and mixes in its clean slap back and the distortion tries to put it together. The resulting sound isn't as tight and a little bit mushier.
A phaser is a notched frequency filter for which the notches move back and forth across the spectrum. A clean guitar signal contains mostly low frequencies. Phaser on a clean signal means few notches intersect the signal's spectrum. Overdrive after this introduces higher frequencies, which aren't subject to the notched filter. An overdrive pedal adds many higher frequencies by clipping. A phaser on this distorted signal means many notches intersect the signal's spectrum.
before amp (not in the loop): wah, fuzzface, harmonizer / pitch shifter / octaver, vibe / phaser in the loop: equalizer, chorus, delay but it really depends on what you want from it.
Another point to consider that ins't part of this video, when after distortion in the signal chain if Phase 90 is off and engaged it gives the signal a significant boost, at least a few db. When placed before the distortion in the signal chain there is no signal boost when turning on or off. This makes a big difference.
It's more what the individual prefers. The order of effects is a suggestion/starting point, not law. I run my dirt after. Main reason is when I turn on the dirt when it was before the phaser, I got a volume boost. Playing live I didn't want that. That's my reason. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I just got a Phase 90 and I plan to put it on my pedalboard in the standard mythological order (distortions --> modulations --> ambient effects) because I think its a good starting point. But I have broken the "rules" in the past when it is going to give me an way of playing/sound that I wouldn't have otherwise. Yes, there is a difference in sound, but people need to be less dogmatic about "rules" and make the equipment do what they want it to.
To me both approaches are valid as I have used either. I prefer the drive pedal first, but for a more subtle phasing sound the drive pedal after the Phase 90 works great. One approach that I really like is to have a split signal with one having a phaser and the other without going to two separate amps. Some of the Roger Mayer Voodoo drive & distortion pedals work perfectly for this application. By the way, nice sounding drive pedal gearmandude!
important thing to note about this is, most OD pedals will color your tone WAY more than a luther and alot of phasers will suck your tone waaaay worse than a Phase90 in alot of case you'll find you get this really good sweeping tone for rhythm with the phase after the OD, but you lost alot of guts and bite, because the od is only overdriving certain frequencies at any given time depending on the depth of the phaser's sweep of course
Definitely before. I have never tried this... I have an unused Phase 90 in my collection because I always thought it sounded harsh. Gonna run it in front now and hope for the best.
basically, an fx loop comes after your amp's preamp. that means those effects will be running after overdrive. some effects, such as chorus or delay, create muddiness and ugly dissonance if placed before overdrive. other effects such as pitch shifters tend to sound muddy after overdrive, as it basically receives a "dirty" signal and shifts that pitch. this is kind of redundant if you run your amp 100% clean, in which case it doesn't matter if you use the loop or not.
Considering what is said at 0:51, and what we hear at 03:26 and 03:34, the phaser seems to have more effect being ran before the overdrive. Do we all agree? I actually would've thought the opposite to be true. How about you?
definitely different. When the MXR 90 is BEFORE the the drive, somehow you can hear it more present. When the MXR 90 is AFTER the drive, the MXR 90 becomes more subtle. That's just my opinion. Thanks for busting this myth.
I've got the Phase 90 as well. I was having trouble getting a decent sound through the effects loop of my TSL. Took it out of the loop and put it after the OD and though it was better I still wasn't happy with it. I put it in front of the OD and it sounded perfect, just like you were running straight into it. A little different from what you hear recommended, but it sounds like it's supposed to that way on my rig.
One factor not mentioned in this video is amp settings. Whether you're using a distorted or clean amp makes a difference. I have a Phase 90. When using an overdrive pedal into a dirty amp I prefer the Phaser after the OD, because before it I think the OD washes the Phase out. But when running the OD into a clean amp, the phase is different it sounds different. I would have like to have heard the bypass tone and seen this test done with both a clean and dirty amp. But otherwise useful. I watched this a couple of years back and it was helpful. Now I know more about my gear I'm able to comment better. Thanks :)
lol i haven't even watched it and i gotta say it makes a big difference. the phasing the OD is gonna notch the distortion. distorting the notch can add tones back to the notch, making it more transparent, although it can add some weird ass swooping sounds if you set it up certain ways that would be totally find up after the distortion.
technically, no most modulation FX (chorus,flange) use delays and sweep between the delayed signal & dry signal. the phaser, MXR in particular, sweeps the effected signal through the tone spectrum before combining with the dry signal.
Liked the sweep and the unbuffered distortion with the Phaser before the distortion. This is different than I've ever heard as advice from people seeking a Hendrix-type distortion + modulation sound.
I found that if I run it before, the effect is more subtle, specially the more the gain on the distortion or OD. The cleaner the sound the more dramatic the phase effect. So before to get warmer sound and after if you want to show off the effect itself
This might depend on the phaser and drive. Overdrives don't seem to be that picky, but I wouldn't put a Phase 90 or Small Stone after fuzz pedals. However, the more subtle Phase 45 seems to work better after drive.
preference - Phase niner after the Overdrive; to my ears the result is less brittle without so much of the harshness. The output also seems more even in level with fewer peaks (similar to compression - but this may be caused by this particular OD) - gonna try it with mine now
Depends on the song. The phaser cuts a swept notch in the harmonics so thins out the sound, good for rhythm (with a little delay). The o/d adds harmonics so thickens the sounds good for lead or riffing.
I use a bass set up.. using a BOSS CEB-3 Chorus & BOSS ODB-3 Overdrive.. I have the chorus at the right of the chain the overdrive is on the left.. plugged in from the amp input.. then I use a double jack plug then connect the 2 and then plug in the bass into the chorus pedal.. I intend to get a Flanger soon..
Putting the phaser after the distortion will accentuate the phaser effect more. The phaser is more subtle/organic when put before the distortion. I prefer before, but it's all preference - but it definitely makes a difference.
Thanks for taking the time to do the heads up. I also enjoy the sounds created by setting up both ways it just depends on the sound I’m going for. Sooo I went out and purchased a Decibel II Pedal Pallet now With a press of a foot switch I have it either way. I found this switcher to be the cats meow or should I say the dogs bite. Again thank you for your efforts, greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Pops
*GEARMANDUDE!* I hope this comment finds you well... You've only done a video or two! I will say that I've never known how much of a difference the OD to phaser order really makes, but now I'm going to test it on my amp because I like my tube tone to stay airy, responsive, and open up. Just one more pain now that I know it's a substantial difference when you're looking for that little something.
Great video. I experimented with this myself before seeing this. A lot of sites will suggest putting modulation (phaser) after your overdrive. I like the Phase 90 before my Tube Screamer. My Phase 90 is a newer one like what's used in this video. The overdrive compresses, or squashes down the phaser effect, making it not so dramatic of an effect. I like that because I primarily use the phaser to thicken up my sound for leads.
I always put the distortion before the wah on the pedalboard. After the wah I put phaser/flanger and the rest. Putting distortion at the end of the chain can cause lots of noise.
I think I enjoy the distortion prior to the phase. Distortion is part of your overall sound. Phase is more of a condiment. Something added afterward. IMO.
It really all depends on your rig line what OD, what Dist, and what amp. That is where the difference really comes in. Running a phase or a vibe into a gain box is also different than into an amp, but, you always get a reduced range of sweep and warble before gains. Not to say it cannot be a good tone, it can be, but, anyone putting modulators in a loop also knows they are more defined and have a greater sweep. True, it's what you like but some people without a doubt will like crap.
I didnt know this was even a question of course the pedal arrangement would effect the sound. I dont use phaser, but wah adds similar tonal fluctuations, delay effect, and modulations. I would put as clean signal as possible to phaser/wah/chorus to accentuate guitar tones and not muddle it up with OD. However I have an OD pedal on both sides lol guess its more about mood
Cool trick for the wah pedal... A lot of wha pedals are NOT "True Bypass" which means the damned thing is always on when its in the chain... even if the effect is turned off. This means you will get those tonal fluctuations you were talking about. I have a VOX V847 Wah pedal that drives me flip'n nuts when it's disengaged (but still in the chain). I looked up "VOX V487 Modifications" in you tube and a bunch of video's popped up on how to fix the problem and make it true bypass. You might wanna try the same thing with your Wah...
I've got my distortions ahead of my modulations in my pedal chain, but I do sometimes use the amp distortion at the end of the chain (I don't use an effects loop). If I didn't have a nice crunch on the amp I'd probably put one distortion after the modulations, and probably an overdrive so it kind of resembles the amp crunch.
@delpimpo This window is too small to really detail proper options and chain issues. Given your rig and not knowing if you have a loop or not. (Tuner first) I do not like having tuners in line and prefer to feed them a spare out from a box. Bypass is a myth, it does not mean you will not get cap load or loss. Wah, Booster (can be before or after main drive) Nova Drive, Modulator, Delay, ISP. If you have a loop, put the Nova mod into the delay in the loop w the ISP last in chain in the loop.
Aren't they two different sounds? P->OD is distorting the phased sound, whereas OD->P is modulating a compressed, reduced frequency sound, so both could be valid. I don't use a distortion pedal (but I have a Tube Screamer), and generally I'd place the TS first. Think of what you'd do with a delay pedal. The diminishing repeats would have less guts if you placed the TS after the echo. Well, I reckon so. :)
I use to put my phaser after my dirt and then one day someone suggested that I put it before. I will never put it after again. Putting it before rolls off some of the high end harshness that I hate about a distorted phaser.
Having the drive pedal first preserves tone and enhances the character of the phaser with each pick attack. However, you will notice a loss in definition and that the midrange gets loose and flabby with the phaser first.
I can hear the difference with the driver before the phaser. I overdrove a Ross flanger using a Yamaha DX9 keyboard using an organ setting. I needed a Leslie or rotating speaker effect. It sounded fantastic cause it gave that Hammond B3 sound with that unmistakeable growl. Yep, overdriving the effect works, especially with low padded inputs like that old Ross flanger, now out of production.
if the mxr phaser is connected after the luther drive ,the sound is actually more boosted...i think ,in that situation ,that the guitar sounds like there some kind of compression pedal in the circuit...that's my opinion
I prefer the Phase 90 before the overdrive, just after the wah. Generally, I have a chain like this: Guitar -> Pickups -> EMG Afterburner -> Crybaby wah -> Noise Clamp -> Phase 90 -> Chorus -> Flange -> Overdrive -> Amp -> Effects loop -> VHT MeloVerb -> back to amp -> Cab. I also have a delay, which moves around and is usually used either after the flange or before the MeloVerb in the effects loop.
All that before the overdrive? Everything I've tried in my chain sounds better with the overdrive first and time-based effects at the end. To each their own I guess
John McGeogh (banshees) had his Flanger (MXR) before the overdrive of the amp. With that in mind I would be taking all other Mod effects and putting them in the loop. So Wah -> Noise -> Comp -> Flanger -> OD -> Amp -> loop -> Phase -> Chorus -> (trem) -> (delays) -> (reverbs) -> end loop
In my opinion the OD in front has a transistor type tone. Could work if you are looking for a thinner sound on a song. Phaser in front has a warmer sweeping sound. Tonally much nicer. Thanks for doing the experiment, good job.
I would like to hear your ideas on pedal board setup. Power supplies, pedal order etc. Since your not on my payroll, I'll trow this in . . . "PLEEEEEZZZZZzzzzz!?!?!?"
It's actually difficult to hear with this demo. I'm wondering if it's the single coil, or the non-standard gain pedal. I've settled on distortions AFTER all modulation pedals (phase, chorus, flange). That way mimics what Eddie did going into distorted amps. With my Boss and EH pedals, it's night and day if the chorus is after distortion (sounds metallic like 80's chorus) or if the phase is after (sounds much less musical and a very narrow scope). Maybe with an Overdrive (whatever this pedal is) and single coil pickups you can't tell... But - I've tested this EXTENSIVELY! :)
Why does my phase 90 before the distortion "blanket" my overall overall guitar tone? My tone seems darker for some reason when the signal is passed through the phase 90 ->distorton pedal. My tone seems brighter when the signal passes through the distortion pedal -> than phaser, unlike the other way around. Its too bad cause I like the sound of phase before dirt
It's not quite as noticeable when just using overdrive and one other effect. However, if you were using several, it would destroy the signal. You want your wah wahs first, then something like a compressor (if you want), then overdrive, distortion etc, then the post-gain effects like chorus, flanger, phase, etc. You lose tone if you modulate the signal before adding high gain. It's subtle here, but notice the dulling of the tone when you place the phase first. It lacks brightness and clarity.
another thing to note is that some fuzz faces can be very finicky about having other pedals placed before them, so many people like them first in the chain. sometimes you can get interesting effects by placing pedals in unconventional orders, so it really depends on the sound that you want. do you want to distort the harmony, or harmonize the distortion?
personal preference, but with the phase in front of the dirt, you are getting more phase sound because the OD is driving the effect more, rather than phasing the overdrive sound. I like it in front better, imho. NICE pedal! how much for the OD?
you cannot run a 90 like that!!!! you almost rewound the universe!!! i cant believe you got that much dilithium after the antimatter converters!!!! everything was completely out of faze!!! expect a visit from your local galactic federation representative, this is in clear violation of the rockers code of the sonic order.
I like the Phase before the overdrive. This is how I run my modulation effects(chorus,flange,phase) before the overdrive and delay effects(Delay,reverb) after the overdrive.
I think it really depends on what you're playing...the phaser after the luther gives a more obvious phasing sound. But when its before it gives it a nice subtle sound that sits better for parts that arent supposed to be outrageous
try using delay as a boost put it in front of your distortion and turn the level up and everything else and it acts like a little volume boost I tried it once and it did seem to give something little boost having my delay before distortion.
@JohnEddy123 amp does not plug into the pedal. the pedal plugs into the amp. front of the board is the closest part to the player. electronically speaking.
There is no " answer",- depends on the drive and the sound you're looking for,- like wah.The only thing that's going to have real neg/pos impact is if there is a buffer in the phaser, and if that reacts poorly with the drive type.Think that's how many inaccurate characterisations get started,- one guy ,with one bad response, from a very specific combo. (Keep in mind that some drives also have buffers, even those otherwise true bypass when off.)Do the research, but be prepared for it not to be what you wanted anyway.
1:34 phaser after dirt
2:33 phaser before dirt
youre a hero!
There is definitely a difference. I tried moving my Phase 90 before my distortions/fuzz (I own nothing tame like an "overdrive") and it sounded much "safer" and "subtler" than when I put it in after that with the rest of the modulations. As a result, I quickly put it back where it was, after the distortions where it is used to push things over the edge instead of blend in.
If you don't want a crazy sounding phaser, put it before the distortion/overdrive/fuzz. If you like crazy, put it after.
MXR Phaser pedal is a great pedal because it can go before or after distortion. If you want to sweep the whole sound put it after distortion or in the effects loop. The high end is most noticeably "sweeped" this way. If you want a soft wha sounding sweep of the guitar tone, put it before distortion. Depends what effect you're trying to get.
If you want Van Halen tone, the Phase goes before.
@@bradlivey7867 You're wrong on that., he used both. www.guitarworld.com/gear/eddie-van-halen-how-he-created-his-signature-sound-using-mxrs-phase-90-and-flanger-pedals
it's a pretty simple concept really. Treat your overdrive pedal like you would an amp... If you run the phaser into a clean amp, you get a very clean, pronounced phase tone. If you run it into an amp thats overdriving itself, then the overdrive is going to be the more pronounced effect because it's the amp thats overdriving, aka the last thing in your chain.
once you wrap your head around that it kinda makes it easier to understand.
phase before dirt: big dirt
dirt before phase: big phase.
Before drive seems to retain the tone of the overdrive pedal. After the drive gives the phaser something to chew on.
I have all of my pedals before my overdrives (Fulltone GT-500 and TS-808) except delay, reverb and looper. I had read a long time ago Joe Walsh set his effects this way. I tried it and it works for me too. Great demo.
I have a phase 90 and found it 'offensive' placed after my Drive. Then I watched a RUclips video which broke all pedal placement rules. I put my Phase 90 'before' my drive and it 'calmed' it down, also reduced the volume increase MXR built into the pedal. Very happy ... thanks Gearmandude.
Robert Houle Thanks for the comment, was wondering why my phase 90 was boosting the volume when I clicked it.
I agree I step on mine (after a big muff) and I get absolutely blasted
As I heard it, phase after OD sounds sharper, and phaser before sounds darker. None of both sounds bad, anyway.
Don't always stick with the conventional order and settings for your effects. Experimentation can get you tones you didn't know you had.
I spose it comes down to over driving the phaser or phasing the overdrive.
The Red Witch Deluxe Moon Phaser sounds awesome in front of the OD
Another interesting thing to note is that the wiring inside amplifiers are very much like the signal chain for pedals. Location is everything. Almost every amp ever made puts EQ, Reverb, and Tremolo at the end of the circuit, and puts the gain stages (distortion) in the first of the circuit. Some low gain early Fender amps put the EQ before most of the gain stages, but they don't have very good high gain tone.
I like the phaser after the distortion.
My view on it is, if you want a Van Halen-esque colourful soloing tone from your phase, put it before dirt, and if you want your phase to sound big and rhythmic when using dirt, put it after. It's down to your personal application, I've always used it before :)
here's my take. With the drive pedal in front, you get a driven tone with a sweep.
with the phase in front, you get a kind of messy sweep that has grit to it. so... its really personal preference with what you're lookin for. for me, the standard overdrive into the phase sounds the best.
Glad I stumbled upon this. When I first came upon pedal chains, my friend told me the "correct" way to order them was to put the phaser AFTER the OD. We tried this and it sounded like shit, so I switched the order of the two pedals. It sounds much more natural that way, and I had always wondered why.
Generally, I place my phaser before dirt. This way I give a smooth watery feel to soft overdriven signaIs. Ok to play Van Halen and Rush's early sound, from 1st to 2112.
I think it sounds better with the phaser after the Luther.
I find that with most of the pedals I've played with, the chain setup makes a difference, even if sometimes it's only a subtle one. The Micro POG, for example, sounds almost completely different before vs after a fuzz pedal.
I've always heard that modulation should come at the end of the signal chain. In my experience that sounds best. Distortions distort. Putting distortion first will amplify the modulation effect. Putting it before will distort the modulation signal, making it duller.
There's a bigger difference if you put the modulation in the effects loop of the amp, vs in the input signal chain. It's more subtle in the FX loop, but sounds clean & beautiful. It sounds more harsh, but more rich in the input.
My theory is to put all modulation pedals before overdrives and distortion pedals simply because if you're not using pedals for your dirt but are using the amp's distortion then the modulation pedal are before the dirt anyway. I also think that the phaser reacts better to an unaffected signal directly from the guitar. Unless you're running a compressor the comp also gives the phaser a nice consistent signal to work with.
Your reviews are always so helpful. I really heard a difference. I preferred the phaser after the distortion.
Before, I think. But what about before AND after?
Some ideas are just daring into the unknown so much ahead of their time they almost sound insane. Fear not, there will be time where no one will be shamed for stacking modulations and drives like some tonal sandwich.
Phase in front of my OD sounds much more complete .. Not trying to go to outer space just want some texture .. This is the way EVH does it.. So Hell I'm a believer ...
But sounds better after my OCD And more (studio) sounding. But works great before my rat. dont know why? iust duzz.
john frangi Yeah same man, that crazy rat. The phase 90 also has some boost to it, which i dont like, so i put it before my distortion to dull the boost.
It honestly makes sense to me to run it before the distortion.. it would be a similar idea to running it in front of a cranked plexi..
The difference is whether or not you want your modulation pedal to modulate your distorted tone, or your distortion pedal to distort your modulated tone. The difference would be far more noticeable if you tried the same experiment with an overdrive and a chorus pedal (particularly with the rate set fairly high), or an overdrive and a delay pedal.
Run it first like a wah pedal or right after tuner before drives. Sounds smoother and cleaner before drives and is very wah pedal like.
Phaser last is more "swooshy", before it has a kinda chewier-wah sound, neither is bad. different strokes I guess.
of course there's a difference. because the amount of distortion in the output is directly related to the input signal, any that affects the input signal will result in changes to the level of distortion. So, putting the distortion first will result in a fully distorted signal going to the phase 90. that's why the sound is more richly distorted across the entire phase effect when the pedals are in that prder. It's the same when i want a tight chunky distortion, i put a short delay after the distortion -- it slaps back a fully distorted signal. ..you get a tight Anthrax chug. If i put the delay before it, the sound muddies a bit and the delay outputs a straight clean signal and mixes in its clean slap back and the distortion tries to put it together. The resulting sound isn't as tight and a little bit mushier.
A phaser is a notched frequency filter for which the notches move back and forth across the spectrum.
A clean guitar signal contains mostly low frequencies. Phaser on a clean signal means few notches intersect the signal's spectrum. Overdrive after this introduces higher frequencies, which aren't subject to the notched filter.
An overdrive pedal adds many higher frequencies by clipping. A phaser on this distorted signal means many notches intersect the signal's spectrum.
before amp (not in the loop):
wah, fuzzface, harmonizer / pitch shifter / octaver, vibe / phaser
in the loop:
equalizer, chorus, delay
but it really depends on what you want from it.
Another point to consider that ins't part of this video, when after distortion in the signal chain if Phase 90 is off and engaged it gives the signal a significant boost, at least a few db. When placed before the distortion in the signal chain there is no signal boost when turning on or off. This makes a big difference.
It's more what the individual prefers. The order of effects is a suggestion/starting point, not law. I run my dirt after. Main reason is when I turn on the dirt when it was before the phaser, I got a volume boost. Playing live I didn't want that. That's my reason. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I just got a Phase 90 and I plan to put it on my pedalboard in the standard mythological order (distortions --> modulations --> ambient effects) because I think its a good starting point. But I have broken the "rules" in the past when it is going to give me an way of playing/sound that I wouldn't have otherwise. Yes, there is a difference in sound, but people need to be less dogmatic about "rules" and make the equipment do what they want it to.
To me both approaches are valid as I have used either. I prefer the drive pedal first, but for a more subtle phasing sound the drive pedal after the Phase 90 works great. One approach that I really like is to have a split signal with one having a phaser and the other without going to two separate amps. Some of the Roger Mayer Voodoo drive & distortion pedals work perfectly for this application. By the way, nice sounding drive pedal gearmandude!
important thing to note about this is, most OD pedals will color your tone WAY more than a luther and alot of phasers will suck your tone waaaay worse than a Phase90
in alot of case you'll find you get this really good sweeping tone for rhythm with the phase after the OD, but you lost alot of guts and bite, because the od is only overdriving certain frequencies at any given time
depending on the depth of the phaser's sweep of course
Definitely before. I have never tried this... I have an unused Phase 90 in my collection because I always thought it sounded harsh. Gonna run it in front now and hope for the best.
basically, an fx loop comes after your amp's preamp. that means those effects will be running after overdrive. some effects, such as chorus or delay, create muddiness and ugly dissonance if placed before overdrive. other effects such as pitch shifters tend to sound muddy after overdrive, as it basically receives a "dirty" signal and shifts that pitch. this is kind of redundant if you run your amp 100% clean, in which case it doesn't matter if you use the loop or not.
Considering what is said at 0:51, and what we hear at 03:26 and 03:34, the phaser seems to have more effect being ran before the overdrive. Do we all agree? I actually would've thought the opposite to be true. How about you?
Actually, I find it is more effective after the OD, I think you may be confused on where the chin begins and ends. (Not to offend)
Now that you mention it, I think I hear you, hard to tell, as he didn't sustain the first example like he did on the second one.
definitely different. When the MXR 90 is BEFORE the the drive, somehow you can hear it more present. When the MXR 90 is AFTER the drive, the MXR 90 becomes more subtle. That's just my opinion. Thanks for busting this myth.
Sounds less muddy with modulation effect (Phase 90) after the overdrive/distortion.
I've got the Phase 90 as well. I was having trouble getting a decent sound through the effects loop of my TSL. Took it out of the loop and put it after the OD and though it was better I still wasn't happy with it. I put it in front of the OD and it sounded perfect, just like you were running straight into it. A little different from what you hear recommended, but it sounds like it's supposed to that way on my rig.
Phaser first is thicker and warmer. With More soothing and positive emotions.
I just switched to before my drive pedal. I think I like it more also.
Phaser after has more bite, punch, and high end. To me MUCH better.
One factor not mentioned in this video is amp settings. Whether you're using a distorted or clean amp makes a difference. I have a Phase 90. When using an overdrive pedal into a dirty amp I prefer the Phaser after the OD, because before it I think the OD washes the Phase out. But when running the OD into a clean amp, the phase is different it sounds different. I would have like to have heard the bypass tone and seen this test done with both a clean and dirty amp. But otherwise useful. I watched this a couple of years back and it was helpful. Now I know more about my gear I'm able to comment better. Thanks :)
lol i haven't even watched it and i gotta say it makes a big difference. the phasing the OD is gonna notch the distortion. distorting the notch can add tones back to the notch, making it more transparent, although it can add some weird ass swooping sounds if you set it up certain ways that would be totally find up after the distortion.
Check out the guitar solo in Who's that Lady played by Ernie Isley. He used a Big Muff to drive a Maestro Phaser for a really sonic sound
can hear a difference, wonder if a similar slight compressing of the phase withe the fuzz or dirt could be accomplished with a bass rig....
Phase 90 is the king of tone sucking pedals. My sound improved immensely when i replaced mine with an Electro-Harmonix Nano Small Stone.
technically, no most modulation FX (chorus,flange) use delays and sweep between the delayed signal & dry signal. the phaser, MXR in particular, sweeps the effected signal through the tone spectrum before combining with the dry signal.
Liked the sweep and the unbuffered distortion with the Phaser before the distortion. This is different than I've ever heard as advice from people seeking a Hendrix-type distortion + modulation sound.
I found that if I run it before, the effect is more subtle, specially the more the gain on the distortion or OD. The cleaner the sound the more dramatic the phase effect. So before to get warmer sound and after if you want to show off the effect itself
I still agree with you.
This might depend on the phaser and drive. Overdrives don't seem to be that picky, but I wouldn't put a Phase 90 or Small Stone after fuzz pedals. However, the more subtle Phase 45 seems to work better after drive.
preference - Phase niner after the Overdrive; to my ears the result is less brittle without so much of the harshness. The output also seems more even in level with fewer peaks (similar to compression - but this may be caused by this particular OD) - gonna try it with mine now
Depends on the song. The phaser cuts a swept notch in the harmonics so thins out the sound, good for rhythm (with a little delay). The o/d adds harmonics so thickens the sounds good for lead or riffing.
I use a bass set up.. using a BOSS CEB-3 Chorus & BOSS ODB-3 Overdrive.. I have the chorus at the right of the chain the overdrive is on the left.. plugged in from the amp input.. then I use a double jack plug then connect the 2 and then plug in the bass into the chorus pedal.. I intend to get a Flanger soon..
I don't think it's a matter of should or shouldn't. That comes down to style, but your reasoning is spot on.
Putting the phaser after the distortion will accentuate the phaser effect more. The phaser is more subtle/organic when put before the distortion. I prefer before, but it's all preference - but it definitely makes a difference.
I still like it after distortion because when the phase is put before it, the phase itself is distorted and it sounds kinda bad
Thanks for taking the time to do the heads up. I also enjoy the sounds created by setting up both ways it just depends on the sound I’m going for. Sooo I went out and purchased a Decibel II Pedal Pallet now With a press of a foot switch I have it either way. I found this switcher to be the cats meow or should I say the dogs bite. Again thank you for your efforts, greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Pops
*GEARMANDUDE!* I hope this comment finds you well... You've only done a video or two! I will say that I've never known how much of a difference the OD to phaser order really makes, but now I'm going to test it on my amp because I like my tube tone to stay airy, responsive, and open up.
Just one more pain now that I know it's a substantial difference when you're looking for that little something.
Great video. I experimented with this myself before seeing this. A lot of sites will suggest putting modulation (phaser) after your overdrive. I like the Phase 90 before my Tube Screamer. My Phase 90 is a newer one like what's used in this video. The overdrive compresses, or squashes down the phaser effect, making it not so dramatic of an effect. I like that because I primarily use the phaser to thicken up my sound for leads.
I always put the distortion before the wah on the pedalboard. After the wah I put phaser/flanger and the rest. Putting distortion at the end of the chain can cause lots of noise.
I think I enjoy the distortion prior to the phase. Distortion is part of your overall sound. Phase is more of a condiment. Something added afterward. IMO.
It really all depends on your rig line what OD, what Dist, and what amp. That is where the difference really comes in. Running a phase or a vibe into a gain box is also different than into an amp, but, you always get a reduced range of sweep and warble before gains. Not to say it cannot be a good tone, it can be, but, anyone putting modulators in a loop also knows they are more defined and have a greater sweep. True, it's what you like but some people without a doubt will like crap.
I didnt know this was even a question of course the pedal arrangement would effect the sound. I dont use phaser, but wah adds similar tonal fluctuations, delay effect, and modulations. I would put as clean signal as possible to phaser/wah/chorus to accentuate guitar tones and not muddle it up with OD. However I have an OD pedal on both sides lol guess its more about mood
Cool trick for the wah pedal... A lot of wha pedals are NOT "True Bypass" which means the damned thing is always on when its in the chain... even if the effect is turned off. This means you will get those tonal fluctuations you were talking about. I have a VOX V847 Wah pedal that drives me flip'n nuts when it's disengaged (but still in the chain). I looked up "VOX V487 Modifications" in you tube and a bunch of video's popped up on how to fix the problem and make it true bypass. You might wanna try the same thing with your Wah...
sure sounds to me like the phase effect is more defined and less muddy when in comes after.
I like it much better after.
Thanks for the comparison
I've got my distortions ahead of my modulations in my pedal chain, but I do sometimes use the amp distortion at the end of the chain (I don't use an effects loop). If I didn't have a nice crunch on the amp I'd probably put one distortion after the modulations, and probably an overdrive so it kind of resembles the amp crunch.
@delpimpo
This window is too small to really detail proper options and chain issues. Given your rig and not knowing if you have a loop or not. (Tuner first) I do not like having tuners in line and prefer to feed them a spare out from a box. Bypass is a myth, it does not mean you will not get cap load or loss. Wah, Booster (can be before or after main drive) Nova Drive, Modulator, Delay, ISP. If you have a loop, put the Nova mod into the delay in the loop w the ISP last in chain in the loop.
that overdrive sounds sweet!
having the phase 90 before OD on the slowest speed makes your guitar have more of a screaming sound. which is nice
Aren't they two different sounds? P->OD is distorting the phased sound, whereas OD->P is modulating a compressed, reduced frequency sound, so both could be valid. I don't use a distortion pedal (but I have a Tube Screamer), and generally I'd place the TS first. Think of what you'd do with a delay pedal. The diminishing repeats would have less guts if you placed the TS after the echo. Well, I reckon so. :)
The phase before the Luther rocks...I love this tone.
I use to put my phaser after my dirt and then one day someone suggested that I put it before. I will never put it after again. Putting it before rolls off some of the high end harshness that I hate about a distorted phaser.
Having the drive pedal first preserves tone and enhances the character of the phaser with each pick attack. However, you will notice a loss in definition and that the midrange gets loose and flabby with the phaser first.
OD is clipping the treble and bass of the phaser sweep making the mids punch through
With the Distortion after, theres more of a crunch to the phase, i can think of a few situations where that would be nice.
In my setup it has less bottom end and a thinner and crappier sound after distortion. It messes with the sound, but maybe that is what you like.
I can hear the difference with the driver before the phaser.
I overdrove a Ross flanger using a Yamaha DX9 keyboard using an organ setting. I needed a Leslie or rotating speaker effect. It sounded fantastic cause it gave that Hammond B3 sound with that unmistakeable growl.
Yep, overdriving the effect works, especially with low padded inputs like that old Ross flanger, now out of production.
if the mxr phaser is connected after the luther drive ,the sound is actually more boosted...i think ,in that situation ,that the guitar sounds like there some kind of compression pedal in the circuit...that's my opinion
The guitar sounds are different but exactly the same but the pedals are different.
Nice vid.
I prefer the Phase 90 before the overdrive, just after the wah.
Generally, I have a chain like this: Guitar -> Pickups -> EMG Afterburner -> Crybaby wah -> Noise Clamp -> Phase 90 -> Chorus -> Flange -> Overdrive -> Amp -> Effects loop -> VHT MeloVerb -> back to amp -> Cab.
I also have a delay, which moves around and is usually used either after the flange or before the MeloVerb in the effects loop.
All that before the overdrive? Everything I've tried in my chain sounds better with the overdrive first and time-based effects at the end. To each their own I guess
John McGeogh (banshees) had his Flanger (MXR) before the overdrive of the amp. With that in mind I would be taking all other Mod effects and putting them in the loop. So Wah -> Noise -> Comp -> Flanger -> OD -> Amp -> loop -> Phase -> Chorus -> (trem) -> (delays) -> (reverbs) -> end loop
Alex Price I do the same as you.
@gearmanndude
are they limited? i might be ordering one but not now, sounds killer!
In my opinion the OD in front has a transistor type tone. Could work if you are looking for a thinner sound on a song. Phaser in front has a warmer sweeping sound. Tonally much nicer. Thanks for doing the experiment, good job.
I would like to hear your ideas on pedal board setup. Power supplies, pedal order etc. Since your not on my payroll, I'll trow this in . . . "PLEEEEEZZZZZzzzzz!?!?!?"
Sounds like whatever is first is slightly louder, how much is a luther drive sounds like a great pedal!
It's actually difficult to hear with this demo. I'm wondering if it's the single coil, or the non-standard gain pedal. I've settled on distortions AFTER all modulation pedals (phase, chorus, flange). That way mimics what Eddie did going into distorted amps. With my Boss and EH pedals, it's night and day if the chorus is after distortion (sounds metallic like 80's chorus) or if the phase is after (sounds much less musical and a very narrow scope). Maybe with an Overdrive (whatever this pedal is) and single coil pickups you can't tell... But - I've tested this EXTENSIVELY! :)
Why does my phase 90 before the distortion "blanket" my overall overall guitar tone? My tone seems darker for some reason when the signal is passed through the phase 90 ->distorton pedal. My tone seems brighter when the signal passes through the distortion pedal -> than phaser, unlike the other way around. Its too bad cause I like the sound of phase before dirt
It's not quite as noticeable when just using overdrive and one other effect. However, if you were using several, it would destroy the signal. You want your wah wahs first, then something like a compressor (if you want), then overdrive, distortion etc, then the post-gain effects like chorus, flanger, phase, etc. You lose tone if you modulate the signal before adding high gain. It's subtle here, but notice the dulling of the tone when you place the phase first. It lacks brightness and clarity.
another thing to note is that some fuzz faces can be very finicky about having other pedals placed before them, so many people like them first in the chain.
sometimes you can get interesting effects by placing pedals in unconventional orders, so it really depends on the sound that you want. do you want to distort the harmony, or harmonize the distortion?
personal preference, but with the phase in front of the dirt, you are getting more phase sound because the OD is driving the effect more, rather than phasing the overdrive sound. I like it in front better, imho. NICE pedal! how much for the OD?
you cannot run a 90 like that!!!! you almost rewound the universe!!! i cant believe you got that much dilithium after the antimatter converters!!!! everything was completely out of faze!!! expect a visit from your local galactic federation representative, this is in clear violation of the rockers code of the sonic order.
Only 34 thumbs up when I arrived. Stupid internet
I like the Phase before the overdrive. This is how I run my modulation effects(chorus,flange,phase) before the overdrive and delay effects(Delay,reverb) after the overdrive.
I think it really depends on what you're playing...the phaser after the luther gives a more obvious phasing sound. But when its before it gives it a nice subtle sound that sits better for parts that arent supposed to be outrageous
My simple solution was to put one dirt box before modulation, and one dirt box after. (The more trebly one before, the more bassy after.)
try using delay as a boost put it in front of your distortion and turn the level up and everything else and it acts like a little volume boost I tried it once and it did seem to give something little boost having my delay before distortion.
Great video man! Thanks for posting
Jack black?
Thought the same thing.
Haha! It sounds almost just like him! However, sometimes I hear hints of Christian Slater.
lol!
I’m hearing Dale from King of the hill
Preciso de uma informação qual pedal o gitarrista jeimis Burton usa pra Dar aquele timbre perfeito eu já tenho uma 3 captadores
@JohnEddy123 amp does not plug into the pedal. the pedal plugs into the amp. front of the board is the closest part to the player. electronically speaking.
There is no " answer",- depends on the drive and the sound you're looking for,- like wah.The only thing that's going to have real neg/pos impact is if there is a buffer in the phaser, and if that reacts poorly with the drive type.Think that's how many inaccurate characterisations get started,- one guy ,with one bad response, from a very specific combo. (Keep in mind that some drives also have buffers, even those otherwise true bypass when off.)Do the research, but be prepared for it not to be what you wanted anyway.