The trauma on a whole family after an abduction and reunion cannot be underestimated, it isn’t just the abductee who will never be the same again, it’s a fascinating area of sociology and psychology. Doesn’t excuse what Cary did but adds an explanation to why he turned out like he did.
There were sexual predators in the family - Del Stayner was ordered into therapy for SAing one of his daughters; the maternal grandfather lived with the family even though he had abused Kay as a child; she claimed that she kept an eye on him, but the fact that she allowed that is alarming. The uncle that was shot was a sexual predator as well, and Cary was often sent to stay with him. Del and Kay also admitted that they mistreated their other children while Steven was missing - Del would shout at Cary, "I want my real son back!" None of the children received any counseling or therapy because the parents wanted to keep the family secrets intact.
@@carolinef1508 There were three sisters, and women are less likely to become serial killers. Moreover, the oldest son was disturbed from an early age but nothing was done because the parents denied their children mental health care in order to keep the family secrets safe.
@@carolinef1508 Women are less likely to become serial killers. People can be raised in the same household and have a different experience and turn out differently. Cary was also mentally ill from an early age but he and his siblings were denied mental health care.
The father, Delbert, was accused of sexually abusing his daughters in 1986 and was ordered into therapy. One relative said that sexual abuse and mental illness are "a family sickness that goes back at least 5 generations". Delbert's brother Jerry, whom the adults knew was a predator but was still allowed to have contact with the children; Cary was often sent to stay with him. On top of this, Kay allowed her father, who had sexually abused her as a child, to live with her family, although she claimed that she kept an eye on him. Delbert would also hit the children with a belt. Steven's life was hell before he was abducted. This explains why the parents didn't want Steven and his siblings to get any help. It was about keeping the family secrets intact. And they admitted to mistreating their other children while Steven was missing. There is no excuse for what Cary did but maybe if he had gotten help, things would have been different.
@itsalwaysteatime3803 Agreed. I have to admit, it makes me angry when people act like the parents were upstanding citizens. While they are not to blame for Cary's actions, they were to blame for the environment they created for their children and not getting them help. No wonder Steven was so easily convinced by Parnell that his parents didn't want him anymore. He was already vulnerable because of what was going on at home.
As a psychologist, when people bring up “nature vs nurture” my answer is always “both”. As one example, some people may be born predisposed to mental illness (nature), but factors in their environment (nurture) will contribute to whether this predisposition expresses itself as psychopathology later on or not.
I totally agree! You can have different people in the same or very similar environments and one turns out horrible and the other a saint. But you can also have people with the same mental illnesses and likewise, horrible/saint. I do tend to lean more towards nature usually, just a little like 55% nature, 45% nurture, just because no one is affected by the same things in the same way but it's close enough for me to definitely agree with what you said
@@AlysiaTribeca Cary was mentally ill from an early age but didn't get the help that he needed, mostly due to parental neglect. He was sexually abused by his uncle and his parents allowed it to happen. The father SAed his own daughters and was ordered into therapy by the state in 1986. His parents were abusive and denied their children mental health care.
Parents to Steven: we are not talking about our trauma in this family, boy. Not with friends, definitely not with a therapist. But sharing it with the millions of viewers? Oh, boy! You're gonna be on the TELLY!
The story of Steven and Carey is so very tragic. I watched the movie I know my first name is Steven years ago. FYI you do a wonderful job on your videos
thanks for sharing the other side of the family's story. i had known the original story about Steven from an old episode of maybe Forensic Files or Cold Case Files, but always appreciate hearing you tell us
One cannot help but wonder: If mental health counseling wasn't such a taboo topic [and, believe me, it *absolutely* was] when Stayner was a youth, how different might his life have been?
I was an exchange student in Argentina at the same time that Silvina Pelosso was murdered by Stayner. It was all over the Argentinian news and the entire country was upset and outraged. Rotary Club had to have a special meeting with the parents of exchange students who were in or preparing to go to the US because of the absolute terror this case struck. We, the US students there, were also called into a meeting to discuss safety. People today still talk about Silvina and her tragic death.
this is what most of us who watch these videos don't see, the ripple effects of one person being murdered on the rest of their community. thanks for sharing. that must've been scary and stressful
Brilliant the way you told the story of Steven and Cary. I always knew of the two stories but never knew they were related which makes the whole nature vs nurture debate in this case more fascinating.
Although it isnt really mentioned, Steven & Carys' sisters grew up in the same environment that Cary did and they didnt grow up to be serial killers. Seems more nature than nurture in Carys' case.
The children were all traumatized, not only by Steven's abduction but also because there was sexual abuse going on in the family. The father, grandfather and uncle were all sexual predators. Steven didn't have a good life before he was kidnapped, and his parents refused to get any of the kids psychological help because they didn't want to get in trouble.
Yes but also all people are individuals and the way that trauma effects them differs greatly from person to person even between siblings. Childhood abuse has been found to be strongly correlated with violent behavior in adulthood and while it's important to not cause stigma towards people who have experienced trauma by pointing out that not everyone who have experienced such abuse become violent it is important to recognize that it has been proven to be correlated with violent behavior. The nature vs nurture debate is difficult because people are individuals, you cannot truly compare a sibling to another despite them experiencing the same upbringing because the way they experience the same thing can be hugely different. There are also many experiences siblings have at the same time of experiencing trauma (such as school life, do they do well and feel supported outside the home or do they struggle and find no support anywhere) that play a part in the way they internalize and cope with that time of their life and thus how that trauma goes on to affect their adult behavior. There is also the difference in epigenetics. Epigenetics means genes people have that are not activated until something during the life of that person causes them to activate. It is an area of genetics that we still have a lot to learn about. For example many mental illnesses such as schizophrenia have been found to be caused (at least in some if not all cases) by epigenetics, a person is born with a gene causing schizophrenia but it may never activate but they can pass it on to their offspring. The gene has been found to be able to be activated by trauma or stress but different people can have it activate as a result of trauma of different "severity". And do not take me wrong I am in no way excusing violence by traumatized people but the concept of nature vs nurture is much to complex of an issue to make any conclusions about based on "his sisters experienced the same abuse but didn't become killers". The only true comparison in the debate that could stand is if we could have the exact same individual experience two different upbringings in the same out of home environment but as we cannot we cannot really compare any people against each other, not even identical twins as even they have diffenced in personality and epigenetics.
Thank you for another very well-done video! I appreciate the work and research that you put into your videos. I've known of this case and have consumed many hours of info about the Stayner brothers, yet you've conveyed facts that I've never heard before! Your thorough coverage is superb! 👏 👏 👏 Take care of yours!
Hm. Interesting. I can't help but wonder if maybe this was his way of trying to get attention when he was neglected/ignored for so long. I mean, you hear all the time about situations where a family has one severely disabled child that forces the parents to pay more attention to that child rather than the others, and then the able-bodied children lash out in some way later on, right? Or even just situations where one child is favoured over another, the neglected child tends to act out to try to get attention. Maybe this was his way of trying to do that, either consciously or subconsciously. And... I guess he got what he wanted, since we're talking about him all these years later.
@TheVirtualFashionista There was far more to it than that. Sexual abuse was rife in that family and Cary himself was victimized. That was why the parents never got any therapy for the kids.
34:08 I think it's disingenuous to compare the lives of both brothers as "this one was kidnapped and went through sexual abuse and trauma for 7 years and this one was just emotionally neglected by their parents as a result, but the one who went through worse didn't end up a murderer while the other one did" because while one situation is objectively worse than the other, both situations still result in trauma. I don't think you realize how awful it is to be neglected emotionally when you're a child, or at least your statement was poorly worded. I'm in no way condoning Cary's actions, he ended up a horrible person and here's no excuse for what he did. What I'm saying is, even though they are brothers they are still two different people, you can't invalidate one's trauma because it "wasn't as bad" as the other's, in the end you're pitting two children who were wronged against each other, regardless of how each ended up living their life, and regardless of who exactly they were wronged by. Pain is pain, it all leaves scars. But I think you are correct about the nature vs. nurture, especially considering that, for 7 years Steven was "nurtured" by Kenneth Parnell while Cary remained "nurtured" by their actual parents. Though the only thing that is clear is that neither one came out a winner. What happened to both brothers was tragic, albeit in different ways, and I can only imagine how it affected their remaining siblings.
Cary was raped by his uncle (the one who was murdered), Delbert Stayner was a pedo himself and molested his own daughters; the maternal grandfather was allowed to live with the family even though he had SAed Kay Stayner (the mother) as a child. There was a lot of trauma, and a lot of abuse in the family, and mental illness had always been an issue .
I might change my mind by the end of the video, but if Stephen didn't go on to kill, which he didn't, I can't image Cary could be justified in doing it just by the secondary trauma of his brother.
I don't think anyone is justifying what Cary did, but trauma and the environment he was raised in definitely contributed to how he turned out. It was revealed at Cary's trial that sexual abuse and mental illness goes back at least five generations in the Stayner family. The children were surrounded by predators - the father, the grandfather, the uncle. Cary was neglected from birth, his mental health issues went unchecked, and his parents set him up to be sexually abused by the predator uncle. No child was safe in that family. Steven went from one hell hole to another. The parents are why Cary is the way he is.
His probably a sociopath after this all bad events - trauma, sa from family member, being neglected. This and huge amount of anger just... Made him this. Honestly i think he can be also responsible for Steven death. Like... He may see him a the real source of his problems. That can be the reason of thinking about killing a family... He still fully guilty, its not a mental illness, but he is a product of his family neglected, Steven abduction and lack of therapy...
That same uncle SAed Cary for years, and the parents knew all along what was happening. They were horrible parents, and they neglected him from day one. The dad was also a predator who abused his daughters, and the maternal grandfather (who lived with the family at one point) was also a predator. That home was hell and all the children were victimized.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The trauma on a whole family after an abduction and reunion cannot be underestimated, it isn’t just the abductee who will never be the same again, it’s a fascinating area of sociology and psychology. Doesn’t excuse what Cary did but adds an explanation to why he turned out like he did.
There were sexual predators in the family - Del Stayner was ordered into therapy for SAing one of his daughters; the maternal grandfather lived with the family even though he had abused Kay as a child; she claimed that she kept an eye on him, but the fact that she allowed that is alarming. The uncle that was shot was a sexual predator as well, and Cary was often sent to stay with him. Del and Kay also admitted that they mistreated their other children while Steven was missing - Del would shout at Cary, "I want my real son back!" None of the children received any counseling or therapy because the parents wanted to keep the family secrets intact.
@@Muirmaiden wow what a horrible family. no wonder Cary ended up twisted (no excuse ofc).
Notice how they had several sisters growing up in that family too, but none of them ever turned into a serial killer.
@@carolinef1508 There were three sisters, and women are less likely to become serial killers. Moreover, the oldest son was disturbed from an early age but nothing was done because the parents denied their children mental health care in order to keep the family secrets safe.
@@carolinef1508 Women are less likely to become serial killers. People can be raised in the same household and have a different experience and turn out differently. Cary was also mentally ill from an early age but he and his siblings were denied mental health care.
The father, Delbert, was accused of sexually abusing his daughters in 1986 and was ordered into therapy. One relative said that sexual abuse and mental illness are "a family sickness that goes back at least 5 generations". Delbert's brother Jerry, whom the adults knew was a predator but was still allowed to have contact with the children; Cary was often sent to stay with him. On top of this, Kay allowed her father, who had sexually abused her as a child, to live with her family, although she claimed that she kept an eye on him. Delbert would also hit the children with a belt. Steven's life was hell before he was abducted. This explains why the parents didn't want Steven and his siblings to get any help. It was about keeping the family secrets intact. And they admitted to mistreating their other children while Steven was missing. There is no excuse for what Cary did but maybe if he had gotten help, things would have been different.
The parents seem horrible to be honest.
@itsalwaysteatime3803 Agreed. I have to admit, it makes me angry when people act like the parents were upstanding citizens. While they are not to blame for Cary's actions, they were to blame for the environment they created for their children and not getting them help. No wonder Steven was so easily convinced by Parnell that his parents didn't want him anymore. He was already vulnerable because of what was going on at home.
It makes sense why he didn't want Steven to get any help
Yes exactly!! @@AleksandraLempart-s3v
Do you have any sources for this? I would love to delve into that story.
Been waiting for this! Nobody tells it like Georgia
Perfect timing too 👌
Ikr! I've learned about this case for YEARS! In this and the last episode, I have learned at least 3 facts I did not know before!
@@killermfkatysame
As a psychologist, when people bring up “nature vs nurture” my answer is always “both”. As one example, some people may be born predisposed to mental illness (nature), but factors in their environment (nurture) will contribute to whether this predisposition expresses itself as psychopathology later on or not.
I totally agree! You can have different people in the same or very similar environments and one turns out horrible and the other a saint. But you can also have people with the same mental illnesses and likewise, horrible/saint. I do tend to lean more towards nature usually, just a little like 55% nature, 45% nurture, just because no one is affected by the same things in the same way but it's close enough for me to definitely agree with what you said
@@AlysiaTribeca Cary was mentally ill from an early age but didn't get the help that he needed, mostly due to parental neglect. He was sexually abused by his uncle and his parents allowed it to happen. The father SAed his own daughters and was ordered into therapy by the state in 1986. His parents were abusive and denied their children mental health care.
I was waiting ALL week for this one, and the follow-up did not disappoint! Amazing work as always, Georgia!
Parents to Steven: we are not talking about our trauma in this family, boy. Not with friends, definitely not with a therapist. But sharing it with the millions of viewers? Oh, boy! You're gonna be on the TELLY!
The story of Steven and Carey is so very tragic. I watched the movie I know my first name is Steven years ago. FYI you do a wonderful job on your videos
thanks for sharing the other side of the family's story. i had known the original story about Steven from an old episode of maybe Forensic Files or Cold Case Files, but always appreciate hearing you tell us
I remember when this happened and how my jaw dropped when I saw who the suspect was. I was obsessed with Steven’s case when I was younger.
One cannot help but wonder: If mental health counseling wasn't such a taboo topic [and, believe me, it *absolutely* was] when Stayner was a youth, how different might his life have been?
Taboo or not, Del and Kay knew what they were doing by not getting Steven or his siblings help. They had secrets to hide themselves.
appreciate & recognize the effort you put into these... The 2-parter.came out great. :)
I was an exchange student in Argentina at the same time that Silvina Pelosso was murdered by Stayner. It was all over the Argentinian news and the entire country was upset and outraged. Rotary Club had to have a special meeting with the parents of exchange students who were in or preparing to go to the US because of the absolute terror this case struck. We, the US students there, were also called into a meeting to discuss safety. People today still talk about Silvina and her tragic death.
this is what most of us who watch these videos don't see, the ripple effects of one person being murdered on the rest of their community. thanks for sharing. that must've been scary and stressful
29 seconds 😍 Thank you for your hard work as always, Georgia!
Brilliant the way you told the story of Steven and Cary. I always knew of the two stories but never knew they were related which makes the whole nature vs nurture debate in this case more fascinating.
Although it isnt really mentioned, Steven & Carys' sisters grew up in the same environment that Cary did and they didnt grow up to be serial killers. Seems more nature than nurture in Carys' case.
Yes but women historically don't tend to go on and be serial killers Although there are the exceptions of course.
The children were all traumatized, not only by Steven's abduction but also because there was sexual abuse going on in the family. The father, grandfather and uncle were all sexual predators. Steven didn't have a good life before he was kidnapped, and his parents refused to get any of the kids psychological help because they didn't want to get in trouble.
Yes but also all people are individuals and the way that trauma effects them differs greatly from person to person even between siblings. Childhood abuse has been found to be strongly correlated with violent behavior in adulthood and while it's important to not cause stigma towards people who have experienced trauma by pointing out that not everyone who have experienced such abuse become violent it is important to recognize that it has been proven to be correlated with violent behavior. The nature vs nurture debate is difficult because people are individuals, you cannot truly compare a sibling to another despite them experiencing the same upbringing because the way they experience the same thing can be hugely different. There are also many experiences siblings have at the same time of experiencing trauma (such as school life, do they do well and feel supported outside the home or do they struggle and find no support anywhere) that play a part in the way they internalize and cope with that time of their life and thus how that trauma goes on to affect their adult behavior. There is also the difference in epigenetics. Epigenetics means genes people have that are not activated until something during the life of that person causes them to activate. It is an area of genetics that we still have a lot to learn about. For example many mental illnesses such as schizophrenia have been found to be caused (at least in some if not all cases) by epigenetics, a person is born with a gene causing schizophrenia but it may never activate but they can pass it on to their offspring. The gene has been found to be able to be activated by trauma or stress but different people can have it activate as a result of trauma of different "severity".
And do not take me wrong I am in no way excusing violence by traumatized people but the concept of nature vs nurture is much to complex of an issue to make any conclusions about based on "his sisters experienced the same abuse but didn't become killers". The only true comparison in the debate that could stand is if we could have the exact same individual experience two different upbringings in the same out of home environment but as we cannot we cannot really compare any people against each other, not even identical twins as even they have diffenced in personality and epigenetics.
@@_x..Jamie..x_ Excellent points 🤔👍
That doesn’t mean anything. 3 people can grow in the same family. And get a different experience
I enjoyed the story telling in these two videos.
Oh please don't correct yourself to the American verbiage. We love things like "car park and boot of the car " . Well. I do. ❤❤❤
Thank you for part 2, Georgia 👏🏻☺️
That sideways glance of Cary's in the group photo, toward his reunited brother, is telling, I would not call it a look of boredom though.
Thank you for another very well-done video! I appreciate the work and research that you put into your videos. I've known of this case and have consumed many hours of info about the Stayner brothers, yet you've conveyed facts that I've never heard before! Your thorough coverage is superb!
👏 👏 👏
Take care of yours!
I’ve been waiting for this one since the last vid
brilliant work great monolouge thanks welldone xx
Great job, G ❤️
Yay been waiting ❤
Hm. Interesting. I can't help but wonder if maybe this was his way of trying to get attention when he was neglected/ignored for so long. I mean, you hear all the time about situations where a family has one severely disabled child that forces the parents to pay more attention to that child rather than the others, and then the able-bodied children lash out in some way later on, right? Or even just situations where one child is favoured over another, the neglected child tends to act out to try to get attention. Maybe this was his way of trying to do that, either consciously or subconsciously. And... I guess he got what he wanted, since we're talking about him all these years later.
It definitely was but he went about I completely the wrong way
@TheVirtualFashionista There was far more to it than that. Sexual abuse was rife in that family and Cary himself was victimized. That was why the parents never got any therapy for the kids.
Great video!
Thank You.
34:08 I think it's disingenuous to compare the lives of both brothers as "this one was kidnapped and went through sexual abuse and trauma for 7 years and this one was just emotionally neglected by their parents as a result, but the one who went through worse didn't end up a murderer while the other one did" because while one situation is objectively worse than the other, both situations still result in trauma. I don't think you realize how awful it is to be neglected emotionally when you're a child, or at least your statement was poorly worded.
I'm in no way condoning Cary's actions, he ended up a horrible person and here's no excuse for what he did.
What I'm saying is, even though they are brothers they are still two different people, you can't invalidate one's trauma because it "wasn't as bad" as the other's, in the end you're pitting two children who were wronged against each other, regardless of how each ended up living their life, and regardless of who exactly they were wronged by. Pain is pain, it all leaves scars.
But I think you are correct about the nature vs. nurture, especially considering that, for 7 years Steven was "nurtured" by Kenneth Parnell while Cary remained "nurtured" by their actual parents. Though the only thing that is clear is that neither one came out a winner. What happened to both brothers was tragic, albeit in different ways, and I can only imagine how it affected their remaining siblings.
Cary was raped by his uncle (the one who was murdered), Delbert Stayner was a pedo himself and molested his own daughters; the maternal grandfather was allowed to live with the family even though he had SAed Kay Stayner (the mother) as a child. There was a lot of trauma, and a lot of abuse in the family, and mental illness had always been an issue .
I might change my mind by the end of the video, but if Stephen didn't go on to kill, which he didn't, I can't image Cary could be justified in doing it just by the secondary trauma of his brother.
There was generational abuse in the family.
I don't think anyone is justifying what Cary did, but trauma and the environment he was raised in definitely contributed to how he turned out. It was revealed at Cary's trial that sexual abuse and mental illness goes back at least five generations in the Stayner family. The children were surrounded by predators - the father, the grandfather, the uncle. Cary was neglected from birth, his mental health issues went unchecked, and his parents set him up to be sexually abused by the predator uncle. No child was safe in that family. Steven went from one hell hole to another. The parents are why Cary is the way he is.
How devastating for the families of the murdered victims - let alone the Staynor family.
His probably a sociopath after this all bad events - trauma, sa from family member, being neglected. This and huge amount of anger just... Made him this.
Honestly i think he can be also responsible for Steven death. Like... He may see him a the real source of his problems.
That can be the reason of thinking about killing a family...
He still fully guilty, its not a mental illness, but he is a product of his family neglected, Steven abduction and lack of therapy...
Will you be covering the case of Sara Sharif?
Researched well
So much pressure and trauma. No excuses, but it seems like his uncles murder broke him. Also feel for the whole family
That same uncle SAed Cary for years, and the parents knew all along what was happening. They were horrible parents, and they neglected him from day one. The dad was also a predator who abused his daughters, and the maternal grandfather (who lived with the family at one point) was also a predator. That home was hell and all the children were victimized.
❤
Um did Kerry have something to do with what happened to Steven…?
No. He was 11 years old when Steven was abducted. He was also SAed for years by the uncle who was mentioned.
I know he shot Jerry. No evidence but my instinct. My intuition is usually spot on!
This uncle was also a predator and the parents often handed Cary over to him.
Why are my comments being deleted
31:45 that is such a bullshit reason😅 lots of peopel their parents get a divorce. Not everyone crises about it😅 does not mean shiiiiit ahhaha