@@forgot7en Only Nick Jr, PBS Kids, and Playhouse Disney fans like yourself think Brotherhood is overwhelmingly superior. Any professional philosopher will easily tell you otherwise. Enjoy your baby show while it last. Lmao.
Always recommend to watch the original adaptation first, then brotherhood. Brotherhood gives the feeling that it expects you to know these characters already. By episode 2 Brotherhood has already introduced like 15 characters lol.
I agree that while brotherhood is a better anime overall, the original did certain things better the best example is Nina Tucker, in the original anime Nina's brutal fate is much more of a gut punch cause we spend significantly more time with her in the original compared to brotherhood
I'd argue otherwise. Nina isn't really relevant to the story, nor are their deaths really being used to deliver some message or thought provoking idea. If none of that is used or relevant then it doesn't make sense to spend more time ruminating on them. However, in the same breath you could say that sometimes less is more. And what brotherhood does is all that's needed because there isn't a lot to say about them anyway; nor any real idea behind it like I described earlier in this reply.
@@demiliomason1565 respectfully, but strongly, disagree. Nina's story demonstrates one of several logical conclusions and its consequences in a world where transmutation is real. We saw what happened to two naive boys as they found out why bringing someone back from the dead isn't as simple as bringing together physical components of a human body. The brothers travel to Reole to look into Cornello and his "miracles" when it seemed like he had power over all kinds of life. We saw that with his birds and Rose's "brother". This and Nina's story demonstrates that there is more to humans than just a combo of the right amount of raw materials. If humans are nothing more than physical components, it wouldn't necessarily be morally wrong to practice human transmutation of any kind and we wouldn't see it go side ways so often throughout the entirety of FMAs narrative. With Nina, we get to see that yes, human/animal combos are a thing and is another example of when people have experimented with human transmutation. It's good world building AND good story telling. *SPOILERS* We later see that "successful" human/animal chimeras are a thing later in the series. Shou Tucker's sick experiment failed, and the Amestris State Military experimented with chimeras, though more stable than Shou's work, it was still considered a failure. New Greed's troupe is comprised of chimeras, too.
@@Jinnyfir yes, i've watched brotherhood before and understood the narrative development that you described. You didn't have to recap portions of season 1 in this longwinded way, i already watched it all more than once. However, I don't think anything of what you described proves that the show needed to spend more episodes on Nina or Hughes. If anything it makes me more confident in my perspective because it conveyed all of that with the two-three episodes it spent on her, and it didn't need to say more on the subject. Furthermore all of what you described is good world building and does forward the plot, that much i do agree on. but it doesn't forward nina as a character or her relevance; hence my counterpoint on the necessity of spending more time on her than it already did in my original comment. Outside of that her relevance is actually more so for Edward's growth through the story regarding his convictions I believe.
Love Fullmetal Alchemist (2003). The only one I watched on TV back then, and even saw the movie "Shambala something something". It's really sad how it became so hard to impossible to watch this amazing anime by any legal means. Still, its one of those animes that I will always recommend to any fan of a good animation and story! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I really liked FMA 2003 way back then. I especially liked the fact that the main antagonist could be so relatable. She literally goes above and beyond to conquer death. It's probably the most human motivation that an anime villain could have back when 14 year old me watched the show. Max, if you could, would you watch the FMA 2003 movie? it's a continuation of the story and the end is a really good one.
If a show uses a political setting or the political views of characters to explore the way they came to be so that doesn't make it a commentary on the political ideology itself. You clearly missed the actual theme cause you are too emotionally invested in political garbage. Use your brain cells.
@felipevolkhartPlease stop projecting your political viewpoints onto everything you watch. Not everything is a commentary on western politics. Especially modern western politics. If all you think about is politics maybe study history? Then you'll have a better perspective and argument for what you stand for, or stand against, instead of using buzzwords. If thats what you got from FMA you lost the plot.
@@ambarssadoniki2463 Political themes don't come from nowhere, as fiction is derived from reality. Like or not, FMA '03 is VERY political, probably even more so than Brotherhood.
I really like both. and good thing I watched 2003 and shambalah first before brotherhood. the 2003's scene of reviving their mother is so horrifying to me as a kid, and loved it.
I'd like to comment on that quick thing you said around 8:12 I think it's very likely that most or even all of the alchemic imagery and allusions in 2003 is from Arakawa's advice primarily. The brief recollection of the staff meeting that Arakawa shows in the extra pages of Volume 8 indicate that the anime staff was mostly focused in understanding the world of FMA in a practical sense. Most questions being about how the transport works, if they use gas or electricity, how the government exerts power and the like. Continuing from that, 2003's main writer, Shou Aikawa, focused on grounding the FMA world even more. Making its similarities with 1920's (or more or less in that era) Europe take certain stage. He takes advantage of this is provide deeper political commentary than what is present in the manga. All that to say, 2003 took an equivalent exchange. For the lackluster representation and depth of alchemy in the anime. It gives instead, very well thought out messaging about discrimination and violence using FMA's similarities to certain real-world parallels to drive this point home. Aikawa was able to thread this dangerous ground very carefully and it's quite admirable. Though I feel it's much clearer to see that he did his homework in the follow-up film, Conqueror of Shamballa, than it is in the series proper. The series just never got the chance to be as direct to the viewer about it than the film did. That just wasn't the focus or even really important to 2003's narrative, it's just a very brave backdrop to have.
The Maes Hughes arc was way better in the og anime. I think the seriousness of his death really set the tone. Still remember how sad it was to see him die, he was like a dad to them that they needed. They gloss over it in brotherhood
Ah the colors that you pointed out on Edward were facinating! I've been diving into the concepts of Negredo, Albedo and Rubedo and it was only recently that I heard about Citrinitas. I hope that you make more videos on alchemy, not to say I don't like the other stuff you talk about on your channel, but I do really enjoy your talks on alchemy : ).
There is one thing I dislike about the Fullmetal Alchemist community: the necessity to compare both animated series as if one is better than the other. It's such a disappointment to see people dismissing the 2003 or Brotherhood strenghts because "I prefer this one therefore It's better". Let's actually have a constructive conversation on how both stories are beautiful pieces of writing and be thankful to have such a privilege because It's not common to have two successful stories set in one fictional universe.
You don't see anyone dismissing Brotherhood, you ONLY see people dismissing the OG series. Mostly because newer fans want any excuse not to spend time to watch it.
Honestly I liked them both. Watched parts of the original on toonami way back when then saw all of brotherhood in high school. As an adult I rewatched all of the original and honestly there were a few things it did better. Also brotherhood in a few moments assumes you've seen the original and skips over arcs that it doesn't think are worth spending time on, which really detracts in my opinion (ex when ed buys the mine from yoki for a box of rocks)
@@truegamerkingWhere can you even find the original these days. I watched it when it was on adult swim but they butchered the release order of episodes if memory serves. So I remember it being a bit of an incoherent mess. I'd love to actually see it like in its proper order.
I watched the FMA2003 after Brotherhood too. Was a bit strange but it's an interesting experience, seeing the differences and similarities in adaptation. And how the writers of 2003 paid off the set-ups in a completely different way was interesting - dunno what was up with that dragon at the end tho. Brotherhood is the one I'd recommend overall but if someone became a mega-fan of that, 2003 would get my thumbs up too
I recommend 2003, and quitting anime afterwards because it doesn't get better than this. Maybe watch Serial Experiments Lain or Evangelion too, but they aren't as good as FMA 2003.
Hey I know I don't know you or anything but the 03 is also my favorite do you know anywhere I can stream or buy it cuz I've been wanting to show my kiddo he's the same age I was when I started watching it so I think he'd like it I can only find brotherhood on all the streaming platforms
On King Bradrey: My understanding is that the R and L sounds in Japanese are typically written with the same character. Also casual Xenosaga drops are always welcome lol.
The differences in moral sacredness and appreciation for the divine were the biggest changes I'd noticed between the original and Brotherhood. The lack of Alphonse pleading "Maybe we shouldn't do this, brother" is almost jarring when they're put side by side... Great video 👌
Max I found another anime for you to sink your alchemic teeth into It is subtle and took me almost 14 years of rewatching the same anime randomly but Hellsing Ultimate has a lot of subtle alchemic messages and psychological ones too
One of the things i noticed on my recent rewatch is that Dante orders Gluttony to eat Al once he is bonded with the Philosopher's Stone to create the "real" stone. My thought is that this might be a VERY subtle nod to the alchemical Vitriol designed to clean metals of their impurities.
Hey thanks for doing this video! FMA 2003 is one of my favorite anime, and while I do love Brotherhood, it gets frustrating to see how fans use it to constantly dismiss 2003 and compare the two. I don’t think anyone would have bat an eye if you had chosen not to cover 2003 due to its comparative lack of alchemical depth, so I’m really glad you did anyway. This video was fascinating, thanks for your hard work.
I probably only saw the first ten episodes of the og back in the day, but it deft felt more dark and serious than Brotherhood which, while having those moments, had a whole lot of lighthearted weeb fare.
@@michaelballack3051Listen to Edward and Mustang's final speech in the car in episode 48. "There is no such thing as a war we have nothing to do with". That's what we 2003 fans mean by mature, not a lot of people dying or dark themes as manga fans think. A mature understanding of the real world by the authors, reflected in their writing.
Great video you sure know a lot when it comes to alchemy that I’m learning and reminds me of past events I’ve had that taught me about philosophy but sounds chaotic in its own rite.
You said two years ago and I pressed F to doubt so hard. Has it really been that long??? I guess I'm glad you did finally watch the 2003 FMA. It was my first true fandom and actually had me checking out alchemy books at the public library as a kid 😅 Glad to get the perspective of someone more versed in the alchemical lore, I was always curious! I also would recommend the original series movie (Conqueror of Shambala), it's definitely goes interesting places!
Awesome video as always! Personally, i thought the original FMA was so much darker than Brotherhood, and that's saying something. It wasn't my cup of tea back when i watched it, but i guess i should give it another shot now that im older and kinda forgot it (i religiously rewatch FMAB every couple of years lol). About Hiromu Arakawa. I was surprised to hear she started a new manga series titled "Demons of the Shadow Realm." It has almost entirely consumed my life right now and i would say it has potential to be about as good as FMA. The characters are great, the comedy almost always has me laughing, and the overlying story is nice and complex. I would encourage any fan of FMA to read it, but i want to talk about the power system in the manga (spoilers in replies).
So the main power system revolves around demons. People make pacts with demons and gain a bond with them. The demons become like servants to the humans they bond with and can be commanded to do the master's bidding. These demons usually take the form of eastern legends (but not necessarily) and their power usually scales with how widely known they are. What's interesting is that the demons come in pairs and each demon has powers relating to their pair combination. Left/Right, Arms/Legs, Upper/Lower, Write/Erase, Eat/Produce etc. The series is only in the infant stages, but its really interesting to see these demons pairs and what powers they carry. Someone smarter than me could probably decipher the underlying meaning and relevance of some of these pairs too lol. I can easily see this concept getting more complex and interesting.
I definitely agree with your points about 2003 having some more particularly poignant emotional scenes that Brotherhood is lacking, particularly the scene you mentioned pertaining to the emotional trauma and burden the accompanies this taboo. I also think that people not watching 2003 actively hurts the pacing and character development of Brotherhood, as it assumes that you've already seen the original.
Bro what 😂 I’m sorry , what kind of statement is “it’s not vastly superior, but it’s clearly superior”. “It’s like comparing the dark Knight to Lego Batman”. It feels contradictory, almost like you try to soften the blow or that you do you think it’s vastly superior, not just saying that brotherhood practically did everything better, but even having a hot take the homunculus are done better which, of course is a fine opinion to have if you have it, it just feels like a pretty hard turn follows the statement
I really liked the concept that when an alchemist tries to bring a loved one back a homuncukus is born. It gave the brothers a real gut punch to deal with the one that was their mom. Dante was pretty forgettable though. Poor Rose....
2:00 That's just disrespectful. You said that like it's not even a challenge, when FMA 03 does a whole list of things better thah Brotherhood anyway. You're also saying it like FMA 2003 wasn't hugely popular or good in the first place. While I can care less about M.A.L, when it was first made FMA 03 was actually the 1# anime since Brotherhood hadn't came out yet. Even if it's not as popular anymore because of Brotherhood, just know that FMA 03 was also big influential anime of the early 2000's, and buy a lot of FMA fans is still recommended to watch before Brotherhood.
Having watched both, FMA 03 is not needed to watch and most people only want to watch one of them, so it is better to just recommend Brotherhood. It's more accessible, it is a full adaptation of the manga (03 had to veer off since it was not finished) and does not end on a cliffhanger. Also he never said it was bad. You are reading way too much into that example at 2:00.
This was a fun remembrance. Great video! Well I don't know if you're much of a reader but I have a fun suggestion, There is a unique series that I've been reading called the accidental alchemist mysteries and I fell in love with how they use alchemy in that series. Much different than FM A and really very close to actual Alchemic philosophy. Granted This is a fiction so it Has a little more pizzazz. But I think you might enjoy A gander because it's a well written story, Has fun characters, and actual mysteries. the way they connect alchemic philosophy to real life philosophies is so neat and I would love to see your take on at least the first book. I do believe First two books are still free if you have an audible subscription. I Hope this isn't Too weird of a recommendation or way out of your wheelhouse, Because like I said I've loved to hear your thoughts
Brotherhood feels like a kiddie romp where very little outside the overarching narrative matters, with plenty of action to keep a general audience entertained. 2003 treats the audience like adults, which is wild considering most of us watched this as teens/preteens. Also, Ling and Mei are largely forgettable characters. They were so forgettable, I'd forgotten they were even in the manga. That said, I REALLY wish there was a way to combine both series' strengths into a single comprehensive project.
All praise to the great creator: The Philosopher's Stone is the _start_ of the Alchemical Journey, not its target destination. Things like the process of the Universal Solvent (Alkahest), The Panacea, and finally perfection of the Elixir. It is through the catalytic use of the Stone that the actual desirable ends are the result. That's why production of the Stone is just the first step, because it's only through the proper use of the Stone that the alchemical is change going to active the gross material matters into what's required to achieve the silver or gold re-purification of the Stone in order to achieve the Elixir or later adept transmutations (ie those such as multiplication, and others presided over by the final three signs.) This is true for whichever level or sign the Work is being done, or whichever aspect the work is applied to. Part of the truth of the Philosophical rule of "as above so below" means that if it can be done by the highest processes occurring in the universe, if it is a truly Creator created rule, then every highest principle will be reflected in every lowest principle, as the Laws are universal, if the scope and context are understood; and vice versa. Best wishes on your pursuit of the Great Work and the further refinement of the Stone which you are working labouring to construct.
Great video. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the movie Conqueror of Shamballa which acts as the conclusion to the original anime. This is one of the few anime that allows a filler arc to actually matter and run its course to the end. I'd love for someone to review it to see how it truly compares to Brotherhood which adheres more strictly to the source material.
Father and Dante are actually the biggest reason for why I like 2003 more. I'm surprised you found him more interesting than Dante. There is more, but that's the one that surprised me the most.
I'd be curious about why you found Dante so much more engaging. I just never connected with them. But father was a fun exercise in character development in negative spaces. The homunculi tell us a lot about the dwarf in the flask through their motivations as ultimately they are fathers sins cleaved from himself. The fact that father thinks wanting friends is greedy, that dispite his quest for perfect knowledge he secretly only really wants to be human himself as told by Envy's final monologue etc etc. Combine all this with the observation that being free of your sins does not make you a good heroic or even moral person I find him to be a far more compelling character. But I'd love to hear more on why you prefer Dante.
@@salvador.garcia I wouldn't go that far. There are aspects of 03 that are better. Brotherhood glosses over a lot of the early story. And honestly as much as I prefer the humonculi as a character device for father I do think 03s explanation (spoiler) that they are the failed human transmutations and the consequences to the brothers more interesting for the humonculi themselves.
@@siegfread9683lol "spoiler". Stop assuming that people that admitted 2003 version has an incoherent lore and is worse than brotherhood in everything except maybe presenting the characters and some endings and openings, is due to haven't seen the 2003 version back then.
@@salvador.garcia the show is old enough to drink in America and this is a comment thread digging Into what it did better and worse storywise on a video talking about how the symbolism is different than the newer version. If someone complains of spoilers in this setting there were enough red flags for them to stop reading well before my comment. Second I have no idea what the hell you are saying. Are you saying 03 is incoherent? Are you saying brotherhood is? Your sentence structure is all over the place and I legitimately don't know what show you are trying to trash talk here. Regardless my rebuttle is the same. Neither show is objectively better. No piece of art ever can be. You might have a subjective opinion on it and that's fine. But going around claiming that opinion as fact is laughable on so many levels. Brotherhood does some things better and 03 does other things better. Which you prefer is ultimately personal taste as you can't boil art down to numeric stats and say one is better than the other overall.
Max try to analysis the philosophy of Karneki from Tokyo ghoul. It really really deep and written with honest brutal truths with hiding any fantasy. Please try to read the Manga . It packed with so many philosophical reference . You won't regret the time you spend on the profound writing of Tokyo Ghoul
While the refrences in it are very basic, the current kamen rider series gotchard is heavily based off of alchemy with refrences to Hermes Trismegistus, the alchemical process and st germain
I don't like Brotherhood. It's too juvenile, all of the important emotional stuff happens with no weight. That's no (internal) alchemy, that's just alchemical concepts being used as flavor for a shōnen product, because Brotherhood feels way more like a product than an actual story. 2003 is wonderful, it moves you, it makes the actual alchemy happen inside of you as it guides your mind and emotions through an œuvre, a true alchemical opus in storytelling. Less flashy lights-and-fights, more drama - and what is magick anyways? It's all drama. Now go watch Conqueror of Shamballa and dare saying again that the 2009 shōnenslop is the better FMA.
Brotherhood does make the atmosphere of the original manga more childish and melodramatic, so I recommend reading the original work, even if I agree that ultimately 2003 is better than both. The final battle against Father is just awful. Dragon Ball fights legitimately have way more emotional depth to them than it, despite that series being infamous for having too much fighting.
You absolutely nailed it. Brotherhood shoving slapstick, gags, and goofy drawings after every other scene, including heavier scenes, on its own made Broho an absolute slog to get through. And then having Ed and various genociders play Morality Dispensers while the narrative goes out of its way to villainize/"morally grey" the Ishvalans (particularly the resistance fighters) and Scar almost had me drop the show numerous times. The only reason I pushed on and watched this mess to the very end was so I could appropriately discuss it with others. And man, having a cheap "Father becomes god" scene when we already know Hohenheim set up a counter circle to stop him, followed by a bog-standard shonen fight between Ed and Father was wild (derogatory). Brotherhood wants you to think its smart and deep. It really isn't. FullMetal Alchemist 2003 is a masterful anime, even without comparing it to the og manga or its overrated anime adaptation.
Man, I’m so proud of ya’ll. We have to continue to stand up for the FMA 2003 series as a community for many more years to come. These Brotherhood fans need to learn.
As someone who prefers 03 and loves it, and who grew up watching Shamballa over and over - Shamballa is not the argument in 03’s favor that you make it sound like. Shamballa is, unfortunately, kind of a rushed mess, and a way less resonant conclusion than the actual last episode of 03, to the point where I don’t think I’d ever recommend anyone watch it with the expectation of it being FMA 03’s actual finale - just as a curiosity. Which sucks, because the more I learn about what Shamballa was SUPPOSED to be like, the more I think that if it had been made a series instead of a movie like was the original plan that it would be my favorite material in all of FMA. It absolutely needed and deserved more time in order to reach the heights it aimed for, and to justify the overwriting of the beautiful open ending that the 03 series gave.
Well, this is a pleasant surprise. I've just been working my way through your video series on brotherhood, I'm nearly finished, have one video to go and you've released this.. who cares if it's 2 years later. To me, you're just in time ;)
I like both Full Metal Alchemist, and Brotherhood. Although I would watch FMA, and then Brotherhood because it's like tasting wine, and then having a fine wine. You need to be able to appreciate wine first, in order to appreciate an even better wine.
Wondering whether you might find some references even in the various movies (there are both animated and live action FMA movies)... Maybe one single video about them all?
Hey man look deep dive into the alchemy imagery in references in Fullmetal has gotten me interested in learning about the stuff myself. If you got any books to recommend that be nice
Gotta admit, I find it intriguing that it's all about the Philosopher's Stone, when in essence, "Equivalent Exchange" also means it shouldn't take more than a single human life's sacrifice, to resurrect another, yet the Philosopher's Stone requires many lives, does this mean the stone just stops working when it's been used to resurrect an equal amount of people it's taken the lives from?
From what i understand as an alchemist, the 2 headed mercurius, Alkahest, Azoth/chi, Mercury, the caduceus all represent the samething. Mercurius is the manifestation of the soul of the universe or "prime materia, matter" it is the manifestation of the physical and the corporeal making up the black stone (in some jewish traditions it is the residue of the shattering of the 7-10 of the primordial man). The Sun represents the Masculine Soul, and the Moon the Feminine Mind/Spirit and the hermaphroditic union makes up the "rebis, perfect being, God" and is the manifestation of the spiritual soul, the incorporeal, making up the white stone. And the bringing together of the Black Stone "soul of the universe" and the White Stone the "spiritual soul" creates the red stone "Eternal life, the consumation of all things, becoming golden" or the ALL. For the understanding of the uninitiated
Hey Max I'm sure you probably won't read this, but I want to ask you if maybe you could make another video explaining as many benefits of video games as possible, I'd so tired of the idea that video games are bad, and have no value, I really want to explain to people that video games can be a fantastic thing tat can help people, video games are the greatest art form to ever exist, it incorporates all other forms of art in 1, visual, story telling, music, poetry, and so much more, it also helps teach and make life lessons stick, and philosophy, and ideas, and gives great examples of some ideas taken to an extreme, and a most likely outcome from ideas, I'm sure you can tell just by reading this, I'm not great at putting things into words, and explaining things, but i know you are, so I'm asking for your help, not just for me, but for everyone
While I personally like Brotherhood more, I firmly believe the original is a much better introduction to the franchise. If we compare the first few episodes of each, the original eases the viewer into the setting, providing enough exposition to understand the world but also leaving enough questions to keep us hooked. On the other hand, Brotherhood appears to be written with existing fans in mind. It jumps straight into the action and shows several characters doing things that were not revealed until much later in the original.
Ive actually only ever watch this ver of FMA because it was before i knew brotherhood existed 😂 Very unlucky of me. Now i understand y i never picked up a lot of alchemy symbolism from the series. I thought it was because i didnt remember it but it was genuinely cause there wasnt much of it! Considering that im writing a book w alchemy elements, maybe its about time i watch FMAB.
Brotherhood is better, but the 2003 anime is still fantastic. remember when it was on adult swim like 15 or so years ago and the first episode i saw was the infamous Nina Tucker episode and i was instantly hooked
I can't tell if what you wrote is a typo or not. Because FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is a more faithful adaptation to the original source material than the 2003 anime adaptation was.
There you go again, Max. Using that XENOGEARS music in your videos. IT'S SO DISTRACTING! (Great vid & half joking about the music. Love the game, love the music.)
Brotherhood is overwhelmingly superior. There's no necessity to compare because it is obvious. Only people with nostalgia for 2003's version say otherwise; we call this behavior as the "needless contrarian." There's absolutely nothing wrong with loving both versions and saying the superior version is superior. It's the ones with fragile egos saying otherwise that are causing a pointless, toxic argument. "But opinions can't be wrong!" That's true, which is why if you say you LIKE or PREFER FMA 2003 more than FMAB, that's perfectly acceptable. This is how opinions work, they're based on feelings. But the moment you say "it's better," that's no longer an opinion, it's a lie. It's just as false as saying the sun and the moon are the same size, same as saying the Earth is flat. Everything else you said is perfectly in line with what I'm saying; they ARE, in fact, both beautiful pieces of writing, AND Brotherhood is the better told story. It's better written, it's more finely crafted, it's a more complete work, it's more cohesive, and better produced in terms of art & animation quality, direction, presentation, depth, length, and so on. And if I start talking about the problems with 2003's writing, lack of cohesion (plotholes, etc.), it all falls apart very quickly and by the end, it's complete and utter nonsense, and don't get me started on Conqueror of Shamballa -- the actual ending to the show. What FMA 2003 has that Brotherhood hasn't is a DIFFERENCE in characters, themes, and tone, but it should be obvious to anybody paying attention to the actual writing and presentation of these ideas that they are messy, incomplete, often poorly-thought-out, and either go nowhere or are forgotten about entirely. We can nitpick all day about animation and certain moments here and there were it might've been better handled in FMA 2003, but add it all up and Brotherhood wins in sheer volume of the things that were better handled. The expression "quality over quantity" comes to mind and it should be obvious to everyone that Brotherhood has both. And as for my opinion? I started with FMA 2003 and I quite enjoyed it. I watched it numerous times, but there were many episodes that I used to skip for how terrible they were. Skipping episodes or even scenes is something I NEVER do with Brotherhood, and now? I think FMA 2003 is... boring. Yes, it has some good ideas that Brotherhood doesn't have that were worth exploring and are meaningful, but these are few and far between (such as Lust's existentialism, which doesn't exist in Brotherhood), and are, once again, messy, incomplete, etc. and I wish they'd done better. Some ideas are inconsistent with how Alchemy should work, making them plotholes. Other ideas are just... flat out... stupid. Never forget Frank Archer. You cannot convince me or anyone with a brain that FMA 2003 is superior to Brotherhood when a character like Frank Archer exists. And he's not even the worst example of how stupid FMA 2003 gets.
I've always said 2003 is the better show, Brotherhood is the better story. On a recent rewatch of both I didn't feel like that summation felt right, but it's these missing alchemic themes in 2003 that gives Brotherhood that extra layer of depth. That said, as I've gotten older I find myself liking 2003 better anyway
The thing is that 2003 does not use images or references in its designs to convey concepts of alchemy. It is not only based on other references about alchemy but also references popular elements through its themes in the story. This can be called "symbolic hermeneutics." For example, Dante's search for the philosopher's stone makes many references to the quest for immortality. Flamel's symbol was the circle used to defeat the Homunculi and strip them of their powers. This makes perfect sense since Flamel's symbol represents the victory of spirituality over materialism and also over darkness. What do the Homunculi lack? They lack spirit; they are material beings without a soul and represent darkness as they embody sins, which are errors of nature. The circle is activated only with alchemy, which only alchemists possess because they have a soul. Additionally, in this version, the alchemical energy from the gate comes from the souls on the other side. Flamel's symbol is also worn by Dante as an insignia. This symbol also represents death and eternal life. What was Dante afraid of? She feared death, so she sought to escape it by clinging to immortality and changing bodies. However, as we know, nothing lasts forever, not even Dante's soul, which began to degrade as she clung to her life. There are more examples. 2003 uses non-referential symbolism unlike Brotherhood, which is why the video seems quite meh to me.
Hello Max, Please do Fullmetal Alchemist the Movie: Conqueror of Shamballa This is the conclusion of the series. It is just less than 2hrs. It is the end. I hope you can cover the Parallel Universe aspect here. And share your final conclusion on this series based on your own after you watched it. Thank a lot. Stay Gold! :)
FMA 2003 needs recognition and love 🖤
Yes but Brotherhood is overwhelmingly superior
@@forgot7en You are such an obsessed Brotherhood fan boy. 😂 Weirdo.
@@forgot7en Only Nick Jr, PBS Kids, and Playhouse Disney fans like yourself think Brotherhood is overwhelmingly superior. Any professional philosopher will easily tell you otherwise. Enjoy your baby show while it last. Lmao.
fma 2003 is highly underrated compared to brotherhood. I actually really like the dark themes and tone of the series.
@felipevolkhartgood luck getting Americans to use their brains on anything though they will never watch it
I just wish people stop fighting. We’re lucky to have two anime tellings of one series and all people want to do is bicker.
Always recommend to watch the original adaptation first, then brotherhood. Brotherhood gives the feeling that it expects you to know these characters already. By episode 2 Brotherhood has already introduced like 15 characters lol.
Its much better than brotherhood
@felipevolkhart That's a lot of your own partisan ideological insertion going on there, chief.
I agree that while brotherhood is a better anime overall, the original did certain things better the best example is Nina Tucker, in the original anime Nina's brutal fate is much more of a gut punch cause we spend significantly more time with her in the original compared to brotherhood
Same with Hughes
I'd argue otherwise. Nina isn't really relevant to the story, nor are their deaths really being used to deliver some message or thought provoking idea. If none of that is used or relevant then it doesn't make sense to spend more time ruminating on them. However, in the same breath you could say that sometimes less is more. And what brotherhood does is all that's needed because there isn't a lot to say about them anyway; nor any real idea behind it like I described earlier in this reply.
@@demiliomason1565 I feel this argumentation is stuck in the realm of hypothetical. Because the 03 show expands on Nina.
@@demiliomason1565 respectfully, but strongly, disagree.
Nina's story demonstrates one of several logical conclusions and its consequences in a world where transmutation is real.
We saw what happened to two naive boys as they found out why bringing someone back from the dead isn't as simple as bringing together physical components of a human body. The brothers travel to Reole to look into Cornello and his "miracles" when it seemed like he had power over all kinds of life. We saw that with his birds and Rose's "brother". This and Nina's story demonstrates that there is more to humans than just a combo of the right amount of raw materials. If humans are nothing more than physical components, it wouldn't necessarily be morally wrong to practice human transmutation of any kind and we wouldn't see it go side ways so often throughout the entirety of FMAs narrative.
With Nina, we get to see that yes, human/animal combos are a thing and is another example of when people have experimented with human transmutation. It's good world building AND good story telling.
*SPOILERS*
We later see that "successful" human/animal chimeras are a thing later in the series. Shou Tucker's sick experiment failed, and the Amestris State Military experimented with chimeras, though more stable than Shou's work, it was still considered a failure. New Greed's troupe is comprised of chimeras, too.
@@Jinnyfir yes, i've watched brotherhood before and understood the narrative development that you described. You didn't have to recap portions of season 1 in this longwinded way, i already watched it all more than once.
However, I don't think anything of what you described proves that the show needed to spend more episodes on Nina or Hughes. If anything it makes me more confident in my perspective because it conveyed all of that with the two-three episodes it spent on her, and it didn't need to say more on the subject. Furthermore all of what you described is good world building and does forward the plot, that much i do agree on. but it doesn't forward nina as a character or her relevance; hence my counterpoint on the necessity of spending more time on her than it already did in my original comment. Outside of that her relevance is actually more so for Edward's growth through the story regarding his convictions I believe.
Love Fullmetal Alchemist (2003). The only one I watched on TV back then, and even saw the movie "Shambala something something". It's really sad how it became so hard to impossible to watch this amazing anime by any legal means.
Still, its one of those animes that I will always recommend to any fan of a good animation and story! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
I really liked FMA 2003 way back then. I especially liked the fact that the main antagonist could be so relatable. She literally goes above and beyond to conquer death. It's probably the most human motivation that an anime villain could have back when 14 year old me watched the show. Max, if you could, would you watch the FMA 2003 movie? it's a continuation of the story and the end is a really good one.
Commenting to boost, I would love to hear Max’s opinion of the film and it’s relevance to the original series as a whole
@felipevolkhart That's a lot of your own partisan ideological insertion going on there, chief.
If a show uses a political setting or the political views of characters to explore the way they came to be so that doesn't make it a commentary on the political ideology itself. You clearly missed the actual theme cause you are too emotionally invested in political garbage. Use your brain cells.
@felipevolkhartPlease stop projecting your political viewpoints onto everything you watch. Not everything is a commentary on western politics. Especially modern western politics. If all you think about is politics maybe study history? Then you'll have a better perspective and argument for what you stand for, or stand against, instead of using buzzwords. If thats what you got from FMA you lost the plot.
@@ambarssadoniki2463 Political themes don't come from nowhere, as fiction is derived from reality. Like or not, FMA '03 is VERY political, probably even more so than Brotherhood.
I really like both. and good thing I watched 2003 and shambalah first before brotherhood. the 2003's scene of reviving their mother is so horrifying to me as a kid, and loved it.
I'd like to comment on that quick thing you said around 8:12
I think it's very likely that most or even all of the alchemic imagery and allusions in 2003 is from Arakawa's advice primarily.
The brief recollection of the staff meeting that Arakawa shows in the extra pages of Volume 8 indicate that the anime staff was mostly focused in understanding the world of FMA in a practical sense. Most questions being about how the transport works, if they use gas or electricity, how the government exerts power and the like.
Continuing from that, 2003's main writer, Shou Aikawa, focused on grounding the FMA world even more. Making its similarities with 1920's (or more or less in that era) Europe take certain stage. He takes advantage of this is provide deeper political commentary than what is present in the manga.
All that to say, 2003 took an equivalent exchange. For the lackluster representation and depth of alchemy in the anime. It gives instead, very well thought out messaging about discrimination and violence using FMA's similarities to certain real-world parallels to drive this point home. Aikawa was able to thread this dangerous ground very carefully and it's quite admirable. Though I feel it's much clearer to see that he did his homework in the follow-up film, Conqueror of Shamballa, than it is in the series proper.
The series just never got the chance to be as direct to the viewer about it than the film did. That just wasn't the focus or even really important to 2003's narrative, it's just a very brave backdrop to have.
The Maes Hughes arc was way better in the og anime. I think the seriousness of his death really set the tone. Still remember how sad it was to see him die, he was like a dad to them that they needed. They gloss over it in brotherhood
Just one thing I prefer from the og, of many
It certainly hit a lot harder in the original. When watching Brotherhood, existing fans already knew it was coming though.
@@dndsl3436people like to use that “fans already saw 03” as an excuse 😑
"They gloss over it in brotherhood"
That is factually wrong.
I watched the original when it was first aired, I've always thought it had moments where it was more impactful.
Let's do "An actual Persona user reacts to Persona"
Schizo reacting to persona and JoJo would be hilarious
@@virtuesoath9130 an actual homosexual reacts to Jojo
@@j.2512
Nobody is that homosexual.
@@jeckjeck3119 True
@@jeckjeck3119 I accept this challenge
Ah the colors that you pointed out on Edward were facinating! I've been diving into the concepts of Negredo, Albedo and Rubedo and it was only recently that I heard about Citrinitas. I hope that you make more videos on alchemy, not to say I don't like the other stuff you talk about on your channel, but I do really enjoy your talks on alchemy : ).
There is one thing I dislike about the Fullmetal Alchemist community: the necessity to compare both animated series as if one is better than the other. It's such a disappointment to see people dismissing the 2003 or Brotherhood strenghts because "I prefer this one therefore It's better". Let's actually have a constructive conversation on how both stories are beautiful pieces of writing and be thankful to have such a privilege because It's not common to have two successful stories set in one fictional universe.
You don't see anyone dismissing Brotherhood, you ONLY see people dismissing the OG series. Mostly because newer fans want any excuse not to spend time to watch it.
Preach my brother.
Honestly I liked them both. Watched parts of the original on toonami way back when then saw all of brotherhood in high school. As an adult I rewatched all of the original and honestly there were a few things it did better. Also brotherhood in a few moments assumes you've seen the original and skips over arcs that it doesn't think are worth spending time on, which really detracts in my opinion (ex when ed buys the mine from yoki for a box of rocks)
@@truegamerkingWhere can you even find the original these days.
I watched it when it was on adult swim but they butchered the release order of episodes if memory serves. So I remember it being a bit of an incoherent mess.
I'd love to actually see it like in its proper order.
@siegfread9683 I was at a used dvd store, and they had all of the old box sets, so I decided to buy them. They were relatively cheap, surprisingly.
I watched the FMA2003 after Brotherhood too. Was a bit strange but it's an interesting experience, seeing the differences and similarities in adaptation. And how the writers of 2003 paid off the set-ups in a completely different way was interesting - dunno what was up with that dragon at the end tho.
Brotherhood is the one I'd recommend overall but if someone became a mega-fan of that, 2003 would get my thumbs up too
I recommend 2003, and quitting anime afterwards because it doesn't get better than this. Maybe watch Serial Experiments Lain or Evangelion too, but they aren't as good as FMA 2003.
The 03 anime is my favorite, now I gotta watch it again.
Also, more videos of the 03 anime please
Yes. Please more.
Hey I know I don't know you or anything but the 03 is also my favorite do you know anywhere I can stream or buy it cuz I've been wanting to show my kiddo he's the same age I was when I started watching it so I think he'd like it I can only find brotherhood on all the streaming platforms
On King Bradrey: My understanding is that the R and L sounds in Japanese are typically written with the same character. Also casual Xenosaga drops are always welcome lol.
Ra Ri Ru Re Ro = La Li Lu Le Lo
らりるれろ
I once went to shop to H&M
And little do I know. The 3 shirts I bought were; and it was done unintentional: Black, White, and Red.
👀
The differences in moral sacredness and appreciation for the divine were the biggest changes I'd noticed between the original and Brotherhood.
The lack of Alphonse pleading "Maybe we shouldn't do this, brother" is almost jarring when they're put side by side...
Great video 👌
Which one was lacking? The OG or Brotherhood?
Max I found another anime for you to sink your alchemic teeth into
It is subtle and took me almost 14 years of rewatching the same anime randomly but Hellsing Ultimate has a lot of subtle alchemic messages and psychological ones too
One of the things i noticed on my recent rewatch is that Dante orders Gluttony to eat Al once he is bonded with the Philosopher's Stone to create the "real" stone. My thought is that this might be a VERY subtle nod to the alchemical Vitriol designed to clean metals of their impurities.
Informative as always.
I've been wanting to see you do another video on this thank you max
Hey thanks for doing this video! FMA 2003 is one of my favorite anime, and while I do love Brotherhood, it gets frustrating to see how fans use it to constantly dismiss 2003 and compare the two. I don’t think anyone would have bat an eye if you had chosen not to cover 2003 due to its comparative lack of alchemical depth, so I’m really glad you did anyway. This video was fascinating, thanks for your hard work.
i prefer 2003 lol, it's much more mature.
I probably only saw the first ten episodes of the og back in the day, but it deft felt more dark and serious than Brotherhood which, while having those moments, had a whole lot of lighthearted weeb fare.
Increasing the presence dark themes while decreasing the tact and quality with which they’re handled is a middle school SAO fan’s idea of maturity.
@@Sakaki98 Why do you say they're poorly handled?
Wdym by "more mature"?
@@michaelballack3051Listen to Edward and Mustang's final speech in the car in episode 48. "There is no such thing as a war we have nothing to do with".
That's what we 2003 fans mean by mature, not a lot of people dying or dark themes as manga fans think. A mature understanding of the real world by the authors, reflected in their writing.
Great video you sure know a lot when it comes to alchemy that I’m learning and reminds me of past events I’ve had that taught me about philosophy but sounds chaotic in its own rite.
You said two years ago and I pressed F to doubt so hard. Has it really been that long??? I guess I'm glad you did finally watch the 2003 FMA. It was my first true fandom and actually had me checking out alchemy books at the public library as a kid 😅 Glad to get the perspective of someone more versed in the alchemical lore, I was always curious! I also would recommend the original series movie (Conqueror of Shambala), it's definitely goes interesting places!
Awesome video as always! Personally, i thought the original FMA was so much darker than Brotherhood, and that's saying something. It wasn't my cup of tea back when i watched it, but i guess i should give it another shot now that im older and kinda forgot it (i religiously rewatch FMAB every couple of years lol).
About Hiromu Arakawa. I was surprised to hear she started a new manga series titled "Demons of the Shadow Realm." It has almost entirely consumed my life right now and i would say it has potential to be about as good as FMA. The characters are great, the comedy almost always has me laughing, and the overlying story is nice and complex. I would encourage any fan of FMA to read it, but i want to talk about the power system in the manga (spoilers in replies).
So the main power system revolves around demons. People make pacts with demons and gain a bond with them. The demons become like servants to the humans they bond with and can be commanded to do the master's bidding. These demons usually take the form of eastern legends (but not necessarily) and their power usually scales with how widely known they are.
What's interesting is that the demons come in pairs and each demon has powers relating to their pair combination. Left/Right, Arms/Legs, Upper/Lower, Write/Erase, Eat/Produce etc. The series is only in the infant stages, but its really interesting to see these demons pairs and what powers they carry. Someone smarter than me could probably decipher the underlying meaning and relevance of some of these pairs too lol. I can easily see this concept getting more complex and interesting.
@duser that sounds like everything I loved about Drakenguard and Shakugan No Shana, going to check it out purely by your recommendation
@@GammaAKF I can't say ive read those either lol, thanks for the reccs. You need to come back here and tell me how you like Demons of the Shadow Realm
I definitely agree with your points about 2003 having some more particularly poignant emotional scenes that Brotherhood is lacking, particularly the scene you mentioned pertaining to the emotional trauma and burden the accompanies this taboo. I also think that people not watching 2003 actively hurts the pacing and character development of Brotherhood, as it assumes that you've already seen the original.
YEEEEEEES ❤️🙏
Love 2003 + Conquerer of Shamballa so damn much
I must have found out this channel way after the Brotherhood videos were made , omw to watch all of those, very interesting
Bro what 😂 I’m sorry , what kind of statement is “it’s not vastly superior, but it’s clearly superior”. “It’s like comparing the dark Knight to Lego Batman”. It feels contradictory, almost like you try to soften the blow or that you do you think it’s vastly superior, not just saying that brotherhood practically did everything better, but even having a hot take the homunculus are done better which, of course is a fine opinion to have if you have it, it just feels like a pretty hard turn follows the statement
12:51 I'm so glad you mentioned Xenosaga!
I really liked the concept that when an alchemist tries to bring a loved one back a homuncukus is born. It gave the brothers a real gut punch to deal with the one that was their mom.
Dante was pretty forgettable though. Poor Rose....
loved the use of the xenogears theme throughout some of vid. masterpiece of a game.
Green lion = oxidized copper blue lead probably has a unique chemical mixture as well.
My dad showed me the 2003 anime first, and I'll always love it for that.
Let’s go! More Fullmetal!
2:00 That's just disrespectful. You said that like it's not even a challenge, when FMA 03 does a whole list of things better thah Brotherhood anyway. You're also saying it like FMA 2003 wasn't hugely popular or good in the first place. While I can care less about M.A.L, when it was first made FMA 03 was actually the 1# anime since Brotherhood hadn't came out yet. Even if it's not as popular anymore because of Brotherhood, just know that FMA 03 was also big influential anime of the early 2000's, and buy a lot of FMA fans is still recommended to watch before Brotherhood.
Having watched both, FMA 03 is not needed to watch and most people only want to watch one of them, so it is better to just recommend Brotherhood. It's more accessible, it is a full adaptation of the manga (03 had to veer off since it was not finished) and does not end on a cliffhanger.
Also he never said it was bad. You are reading way too much into that example at 2:00.
Lol, another widow of 2003 FMA xD don't be such a clown xD
@@salvador.garcia And you’re another toddler fan of Brotherhood. 😂
If alchemist combined the black, white, and yellow salts it goes kaboom
This was a fun remembrance. Great video! Well I don't know if you're much of a reader but I have a fun suggestion, There is a unique series that I've been reading called the accidental alchemist mysteries and I fell in love with how they use alchemy in that series. Much different than FM A and really very close to actual Alchemic philosophy. Granted This is a fiction so it Has a little more pizzazz. But I think you might enjoy A gander because it's a well written story, Has fun characters, and actual mysteries. the way they connect alchemic philosophy to real life philosophies is so neat and I would love to see your take on at least the first book. I do believe First two books are still free if you have an audible subscription. I Hope this isn't Too weird of a recommendation or way out of your wheelhouse, Because like I said I've loved to hear your thoughts
Brotherhood feels like a kiddie romp where very little outside the overarching narrative matters, with plenty of action to keep a general audience entertained. 2003 treats the audience like adults, which is wild considering most of us watched this as teens/preteens.
Also, Ling and Mei are largely forgettable characters. They were so forgettable, I'd forgotten they were even in the manga. That said, I REALLY wish there was a way to combine both series' strengths into a single comprehensive project.
Right. 😂 🔥
Nice to see you again!
All praise to the great creator: The Philosopher's Stone is the _start_ of the Alchemical Journey, not its target destination. Things like the process of the Universal Solvent (Alkahest), The Panacea, and finally perfection of the Elixir. It is through the catalytic use of the Stone that the actual desirable ends are the result. That's why production of the Stone is just the first step, because it's only through the proper use of the Stone that the alchemical is change going to active the gross material matters into what's required to achieve the silver or gold re-purification of the Stone in order to achieve the Elixir or later adept transmutations (ie those such as multiplication, and others presided over by the final three signs.) This is true for whichever level or sign the Work is being done, or whichever aspect the work is applied to.
Part of the truth of the Philosophical rule of "as above so below" means that if it can be done by the highest processes occurring in the universe, if it is a truly Creator created rule, then every highest principle will be reflected in every lowest principle, as the Laws are universal, if the scope and context are understood; and vice versa.
Best wishes on your pursuit of the Great Work and the further refinement of the Stone which you are working labouring to construct.
Great video. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the movie Conqueror of Shamballa which acts as the conclusion to the original anime. This is one of the few anime that allows a filler arc to actually matter and run its course to the end. I'd love for someone to review it to see how it truly compares to Brotherhood which adheres more strictly to the source material.
Father and Dante are actually the biggest reason for why I like 2003 more. I'm surprised you found him more interesting than Dante. There is more, but that's the one that surprised me the most.
I'd be curious about why you found Dante so much more engaging. I just never connected with them.
But father was a fun exercise in character development in negative spaces. The homunculi tell us a lot about the dwarf in the flask through their motivations as ultimately they are fathers sins cleaved from himself. The fact that father thinks wanting friends is greedy, that dispite his quest for perfect knowledge he secretly only really wants to be human himself as told by Envy's final monologue etc etc. Combine all this with the observation that being free of your sins does not make you a good heroic or even moral person I find him to be a far more compelling character.
But I'd love to hear more on why you prefer Dante.
@@siegfread9683he has no reasons outside nostalgia. Same with everyone who says 2003 version is better than Brotherhood.
@@salvador.garcia I wouldn't go that far. There are aspects of 03 that are better. Brotherhood glosses over a lot of the early story. And honestly as much as I prefer the humonculi as a character device for father I do think 03s explanation (spoiler) that they are the failed human transmutations and the consequences to the brothers more interesting for the humonculi themselves.
@@siegfread9683lol "spoiler". Stop assuming that people that admitted 2003 version has an incoherent lore and is worse than brotherhood in everything except maybe presenting the characters and some endings and openings, is due to haven't seen the 2003 version back then.
@@salvador.garcia the show is old enough to drink in America and this is a comment thread digging Into what it did better and worse storywise on a video talking about how the symbolism is different than the newer version.
If someone complains of spoilers in this setting there were enough red flags for them to stop reading well before my comment.
Second I have no idea what the hell you are saying. Are you saying 03 is incoherent? Are you saying brotherhood is? Your sentence structure is all over the place and I legitimately don't know what show you are trying to trash talk here.
Regardless my rebuttle is the same. Neither show is objectively better. No piece of art ever can be. You might have a subjective opinion on it and that's fine. But going around claiming that opinion as fact is laughable on so many levels. Brotherhood does some things better and 03 does other things better. Which you prefer is ultimately personal taste as you can't boil art down to numeric stats and say one is better than the other overall.
Max try to analysis the philosophy of Karneki from Tokyo ghoul. It really really deep and written with honest brutal truths with hiding any fantasy. Please try to read the Manga . It packed with so many philosophical reference . You won't regret the time you spend on the profound writing of Tokyo Ghoul
While the refrences in it are very basic, the current kamen rider series gotchard is heavily based off of alchemy with refrences to Hermes Trismegistus, the alchemical process and st germain
Also something I want to give 03 over Brotherhood is visuals because man that show still looks gorgeous and has such a nice atmosphere
I don't like Brotherhood. It's too juvenile, all of the important emotional stuff happens with no weight. That's no (internal) alchemy, that's just alchemical concepts being used as flavor for a shōnen product, because Brotherhood feels way more like a product than an actual story. 2003 is wonderful, it moves you, it makes the actual alchemy happen inside of you as it guides your mind and emotions through an œuvre, a true alchemical opus in storytelling. Less flashy lights-and-fights, more drama - and what is magick anyways? It's all drama.
Now go watch Conqueror of Shamballa and dare saying again that the 2009 shōnenslop is the better FMA.
Brotherhood does make the atmosphere of the original manga more childish and melodramatic, so I recommend reading the original work, even if I agree that ultimately 2003 is better than both.
The final battle against Father is just awful. Dragon Ball fights legitimately have way more emotional depth to them than it, despite that series being infamous for having too much fighting.
@@genyakozlov1316lol that final battle… it went from fullmetal alchemist to Father firing a kamehameha wave outta nowhere 😂
You absolutely nailed it. Brotherhood shoving slapstick, gags, and goofy drawings after every other scene, including heavier scenes, on its own made Broho an absolute slog to get through. And then having Ed and various genociders play Morality Dispensers while the narrative goes out of its way to villainize/"morally grey" the Ishvalans (particularly the resistance fighters) and Scar almost had me drop the show numerous times.
The only reason I pushed on and watched this mess to the very end was so I could appropriately discuss it with others. And man, having a cheap "Father becomes god" scene when we already know Hohenheim set up a counter circle to stop him, followed by a bog-standard shonen fight between Ed and Father was wild (derogatory).
Brotherhood wants you to think its smart and deep. It really isn't.
FullMetal Alchemist 2003 is a masterful anime, even without comparing it to the og manga or its overrated anime adaptation.
Man, I’m so proud of ya’ll. We have to continue to stand up for the FMA 2003 series as a community for many more years to come. These Brotherhood fans need to learn.
As someone who prefers 03 and loves it, and who grew up watching Shamballa over and over - Shamballa is not the argument in 03’s favor that you make it sound like. Shamballa is, unfortunately, kind of a rushed mess, and a way less resonant conclusion than the actual last episode of 03, to the point where I don’t think I’d ever recommend anyone watch it with the expectation of it being FMA 03’s actual finale - just as a curiosity.
Which sucks, because the more I learn about what Shamballa was SUPPOSED to be like, the more I think that if it had been made a series instead of a movie like was the original plan that it would be my favorite material in all of FMA. It absolutely needed and deserved more time in order to reach the heights it aimed for, and to justify the overwriting of the beautiful open ending that the 03 series gave.
Well, this is a pleasant surprise. I've just been working my way through your video series on brotherhood, I'm nearly finished, have one video to go and you've released this.. who cares if it's 2 years later. To me, you're just in time ;)
"An actual alchemist" has the same meaning as "An actual astrologist".
You just like a topic very much.
Nobody likes an actual pedant
I like both Full Metal Alchemist, and Brotherhood. Although I would watch FMA, and then Brotherhood because it's like tasting wine, and then having a fine wine.
You need to be able to appreciate wine first, in order to appreciate an even better wine.
Wondering whether you might find some references even in the various movies (there are both animated and live action FMA movies)... Maybe one single video about them all?
OK 1. What site did you use to pull your alchemical texts And 2. Do you frequent esoteric archives?
Funny just finished brotherhood yesterday and this video just came out!
Hey man look deep dive into the alchemy imagery in references in Fullmetal has gotten me interested in learning about the stuff myself. If you got any books to recommend that be nice
Excellent video, tho every time you meet a lion I feel like sliding Dungeon Meshi in your direction for some reason
03 Gang out here forgetting about Shau Tuckers plot line in that one. Ol big chungus lookin aah
Thank you for this video
I repped this since I was in high school man, still one of the best animes regardless
Gotta admit, I find it intriguing that it's all about the Philosopher's Stone, when in essence, "Equivalent Exchange" also means it shouldn't take more than a single human life's sacrifice, to resurrect another, yet the Philosopher's Stone requires many lives, does this mean the stone just stops working when it's been used to resurrect an equal amount of people it's taken the lives from?
I always interpreted it as pulling a soul from eternity is more difficult than sending one into eternity. It's an almost one way door.
@@Sammysapphira Hmmh, that's a good point, but that challenge also by itself, isn't equal in effort either.
oh my god I nearly forgot you were gonna do this
Does the movie "The Fifth Element" have any alchemical symbology, beyond the 4 "elemental" tablets?
Combining sulphur with mercury is supposed to yield red mercury.
From what i understand as an alchemist, the 2 headed mercurius, Alkahest, Azoth/chi, Mercury, the caduceus all represent the samething. Mercurius is the manifestation of the soul of the universe or "prime materia, matter" it is the manifestation of the physical and the corporeal making up the black stone (in some jewish traditions it is the residue of the shattering of the 7-10 of the primordial man). The Sun represents the Masculine Soul, and the Moon the Feminine Mind/Spirit and the hermaphroditic union makes up the "rebis, perfect being, God" and is the manifestation of the spiritual soul, the incorporeal, making up the white stone. And the bringing together of the Black Stone "soul of the universe" and the White Stone the "spiritual soul" creates the red stone "Eternal life, the consumation of all things, becoming golden" or the ALL. For the understanding of the uninitiated
Great video! Is the rebis connected to the teachings of the gnostics?
Any chance we can get a video on the alchemical stuff going on in Elden Ring? There's a ton.
Next level research
AMAZING!!!❤❤
Hey Max I'm sure you probably won't read this, but I want to ask you if maybe you could make another video explaining as many benefits of video games as possible, I'd so tired of the idea that video games are bad, and have no value, I really want to explain to people that video games can be a fantastic thing tat can help people, video games are the greatest art form to ever exist, it incorporates all other forms of art in 1, visual, story telling, music, poetry, and so much more, it also helps teach and make life lessons stick, and philosophy, and ideas, and gives great examples of some ideas taken to an extreme, and a most likely outcome from ideas, I'm sure you can tell just by reading this, I'm not great at putting things into words, and explaining things, but i know you are, so I'm asking for your help, not just for me, but for everyone
While I personally like Brotherhood more, I firmly believe the original is a much better introduction to the franchise. If we compare the first few episodes of each, the original eases the viewer into the setting, providing enough exposition to understand the world but also leaving enough questions to keep us hooked. On the other hand, Brotherhood appears to be written with existing fans in mind. It jumps straight into the action and shows several characters doing things that were not revealed until much later in the original.
I prefer 2003 to Brotherhood. The darker story and atmosphere does it for me. I love this show.
12:53 ❤❤❤❤
Yoooo yess finally you watched 2003
Yeah... Can we just agree that the best media to experience FMA is the Manga?
Hello can you please explain the bird of Hermes? It was mentioned in Helsing ultimate but I have a hard time finding information on it
The Bird of Hermes is a Phoenix, so with the whole idea of bringing the dead back to life that is how it likely ties in
anytime we can visit FMA im happy
Ive actually only ever watch this ver of FMA because it was before i knew brotherhood existed 😂
Very unlucky of me. Now i understand y i never picked up a lot of alchemy symbolism from the series. I thought it was because i didnt remember it but it was genuinely cause there wasnt much of it!
Considering that im writing a book w alchemy elements, maybe its about time i watch FMAB.
I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS
YOU LIKE JOURNEY AND SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS LIKE ME
Is this a repost video? I swear I already watched Max cover this.
Fullmetal Alchemist is so special both anime series are top tier.
2003 has the visuals of ending 3 though...
Worth the wait.
Brotherhood is better, but the 2003 anime is still fantastic. remember when it was on adult swim like 15 or so years ago and the first episode i saw was the infamous Nina Tucker episode and i was instantly hooked
Another Brotherhood fan boy or fan girl.
Have you watched the sequel 2005 film "Conqueror of Shamballa"? If so, do you think you can find somethings to talk about from it?
4:02 why? Why do they pretend it doesn't exist?
Are you an alchemist or a psychologist
I appreciate the Xenogears music
Something I don't believe is often noted is the parallel of Father's journey to that of Siddhartha the Buddha.
Please elaborate!
PERSONALLY - I think the original ending (in the movie) makes more sense than the remake.
14:47 I know another way one can use all four elements 😎👌🏿💨
Say what eddy?
Well, it was good and the ending was very good. I found it very matured. But Brootherhood/original manga is just a masterpiece.
Any video about Metal Gear Delta coming?
I've never watched 2003 FMA because i dismissed it since it's not accurate to the original material, but maybe it's worth it.
I can't tell if what you wrote is a typo or not. Because FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is a more faithful adaptation to the original source material than the 2003 anime adaptation was.
@@demiliomason1565Yeah, it was a typo lol
You really should watch it. Its a masterpiece.
Yet the so-called original material was hardly even halfway done by the time 2003 FMA ended anyway, but okay.
There you go again, Max. Using that XENOGEARS music in your videos. IT'S SO DISTRACTING! (Great vid & half joking about the music. Love the game, love the music.)
Brotherhood is overwhelmingly superior. There's no necessity to compare because it is obvious. Only people with nostalgia for 2003's version say otherwise; we call this behavior as the "needless contrarian."
There's absolutely nothing wrong with loving both versions and saying the superior version is superior. It's the ones with fragile egos saying otherwise that are causing a pointless, toxic argument.
"But opinions can't be wrong!"
That's true, which is why if you say you LIKE or PREFER FMA 2003 more than FMAB, that's perfectly acceptable. This is how opinions work, they're based on feelings.
But the moment you say "it's better," that's no longer an opinion, it's a lie. It's just as false as saying the sun and the moon are the same size, same as saying the Earth is flat.
Everything else you said is perfectly in line with what I'm saying; they ARE, in fact, both beautiful pieces of writing, AND Brotherhood is the better told story. It's better written, it's more finely crafted, it's a more complete work, it's more cohesive, and better produced in terms of art & animation quality, direction, presentation, depth, length, and so on.
And if I start talking about the problems with 2003's writing, lack of cohesion (plotholes, etc.), it all falls apart very quickly and by the end, it's complete and utter nonsense, and don't get me started on Conqueror of Shamballa -- the actual ending to the show. What FMA 2003 has that Brotherhood hasn't is a DIFFERENCE in characters, themes, and tone, but it should be obvious to anybody paying attention to the actual writing and presentation of these ideas that they are messy, incomplete, often poorly-thought-out, and either go nowhere or are forgotten about entirely. We can nitpick all day about animation and certain moments here and there were it might've been better handled in FMA 2003, but add it all up and Brotherhood wins in sheer volume of the things that were better handled. The expression "quality over quantity" comes to mind and it should be obvious to everyone that Brotherhood has both.
And as for my opinion? I started with FMA 2003 and I quite enjoyed it. I watched it numerous times, but there were many episodes that I used to skip for how terrible they were. Skipping episodes or even scenes is something I NEVER do with Brotherhood, and now? I think FMA 2003 is... boring. Yes, it has some good ideas that Brotherhood doesn't have that were worth exploring and are meaningful, but these are few and far between (such as Lust's existentialism, which doesn't exist in Brotherhood), and are, once again, messy, incomplete, etc. and I wish they'd done better. Some ideas are inconsistent with how Alchemy should work, making them plotholes. Other ideas are just... flat out... stupid. Never forget Frank Archer. You cannot convince me or anyone with a brain that FMA 2003 is superior to Brotherhood when a character like Frank Archer exists. And he's not even the worst example of how stupid FMA 2003 gets.
Only Playhouse Disney, PBS Kids, and Nick Jr fans say that Brotherhood is superior to 2003. 😂
You already made it clear to me that you didn't understand 2003, anything else?
@@ED-on8dz 🥱
@@forgot7enBrotherhood sucks lol.
I've always said 2003 is the better show, Brotherhood is the better story. On a recent rewatch of both I didn't feel like that summation felt right, but it's these missing alchemic themes in 2003 that gives Brotherhood that extra layer of depth.
That said, as I've gotten older I find myself liking 2003 better anyway
The thing is that 2003 does not use images or references in its designs to convey concepts of alchemy. It is not only based on other references about alchemy but also references popular elements through its themes in the story. This can be called "symbolic hermeneutics." For example, Dante's search for the philosopher's stone makes many references to the quest for immortality.
Flamel's symbol was the circle used to defeat the Homunculi and strip them of their powers. This makes perfect sense since Flamel's symbol represents the victory of spirituality over materialism and also over darkness. What do the Homunculi lack? They lack spirit; they are material beings without a soul and represent darkness as they embody sins, which are errors of nature. The circle is activated only with alchemy, which only alchemists possess because they have a soul. Additionally, in this version, the alchemical energy from the gate comes from the souls on the other side.
Flamel's symbol is also worn by Dante as an insignia. This symbol also represents death and eternal life. What was Dante afraid of? She feared death, so she sought to escape it by clinging to immortality and changing bodies. However, as we know, nothing lasts forever, not even Dante's soul, which began to degrade as she clung to her life.
There are more examples. 2003 uses non-referential symbolism unlike Brotherhood, which is why the video seems quite meh to me.
@@ED-on8dz People think plastering drawings from religious books makes something "deep" lol. the guy in the video totally missed the point
You just contradicted yourself.
Please, Max. I beg of you to annalise Chiron Last's The Golden Web video
Up next: real scout reacts to attack on titan
The 5th element is the either..
But The Dark Knight is known as great even though it's lazy trash, vs the actual smarts of the Lego Batman movie....*cought* and03blowsitaway
Hello Max, Please do Fullmetal Alchemist the Movie: Conqueror of Shamballa
This is the conclusion of the series. It is just less than 2hrs.
It is the end. I hope you can cover the Parallel Universe aspect here. And share your final conclusion on this series based on your own after you watched it. Thank a lot.
Stay Gold! :)