Zelda was a good writer- I read her memoir Save Me The Waltz. She was an excellent painter, too. Did Scott steal her writing? She certainly was a source of creativity for him. Her death was tragic. Thank you for your excellent piece, and for giving Zelda her due.
@@professorgraemeyorston She started a novel called “Jacob’s Things” but it turned into a complicated story and Nancy Milford said it suffered from “running straight into Zelda’s psychosis”. That’s her words. She obviously had read the rough draft of it.
it was not a memoir. It was a novel, fiction, and demonstrated her ability to write. It is said, she wrote it to show F. Scott that writing was not that hard. She was brilliant.
I’ve tried and tried to get through, “Waltz” but always wind up abandoning it. Her writing is just too confusing and oft times unnecessarily verbose, her imagery so dense. I commend you for reading & understanding it. Before I die I’d like to give it one more try, as Zelda has fascinated me for decades.❤
The most in-depth history of Zelda. Fascinating. Very well done. He took the time to find photos, paintings, manuscripts and historical documentation. All the things so visibly missing from most Zelda documentaries.
This was very interesting. Thank you so much! I recently saw a documentary or read an article about Zelda's paper doll designs which were colorful and imaginative (I am an artist). I find it interesting to hear that Scotty considered her childhood wonderful. As you discussed their lives, I think Scotty was in the photos quite a bit, so I think they went places as a trio most of the time. However, they probably had a nanny or nurse for her; if Zelda didn't know how to boil an egg she may not have ever learned how to mother a child either (she once made a statement in your video that she was past motherhood, all of it...). But Scotty looks happy next to her parents. So you never know what children will remember of their childhoods -- a father's alcoholism surely must not have been easy for Scotty to see nor deal with, and her mother's hospital trips must also have been quite worrying for a little girl and adolescent. Hm. I posit that Scotty must have had SOMEONE who she knew loved her deeply with no reservations whether it be her mom, dad or grandparents or other caregiver. So, a question arises, Professor Yorston: is mental illness inherited? Is it genetic? Perhaps it depends what sort of mental illness it is. Perhaps making a video about cases where it seemed to be genetic, and where it seemed to NOT be genetic would be interesting though I don't know if you can classify mental illnesses like that -- there is probably a lot of overlap.
She was quite the artist , I love her work. Alcohol has destroyed too many lives that could have gone on to create more beauty. Famously sad lives. I'm hooked on your channel, Professor, thank you.
Brilliant. Thank you for giving Zelda acknowledgment for her creativity. Her suffering was the other side of a vibrant life. It’s good to learn about her faith being comforting for her.
I’ve studied Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald for years and your video, to me, seems the most fair and accurate assessment of her condition I’ve ever encountered. She was so highly talented in so many different arenas (I adore her artwork!) ; I’ve sometimes wondered if it would be fair to say she was also afflicted with ADHD. I really can’t add much to your account. Very well done bio|video. Certainly Scott’s severe alcoholism (& the accompanying acting-out ) exacerbated Zelda’s own disordered mental state. I particularly enjoyed this presentation, thanks so much. 🌹
i politely disagree that she had ADHD. I'll lay 10:1 odds that Zelda had bipolar disorder. The excessive spending, taking extreme risks, mania (constant need to party), extreme mood swings, all classic symptoms. As the untreated disease progressed she would have experienced hallucinations and delusions, which would have led to the misdiagnosis of schizophrenia.
I believe she had ADHD and was also on the autism spectrum. It was her neurodiversity in a time when such a thing was unheard of combined with a pattern of psychological trauma (also allegedly she had been raped) that caused her mental health to collapse. Not schizophrenia and not bipolar disorder which are often misdiagnoses for traumatized people.
I agree such that the way Prof. Yorstòn presents his research and story of his subjects is mesmerizing in and of itself ... Yorston brings his audience along "gently, quietly, throughly" .... A storyteller of stories .... 🇨🇦
What a story. I'm not sure if it was worse having a mental illness before anyone tried to cure them, or the first 70 years or so of trying to cure them. Another great video.
I think the "treatment" in mental hospitals got worse in the first half of the 20th century as authorities began to worry about the rising numbers and costs.
@@professorgraemeyorstonhence the ridiculous time of closing mental hospitals which are so desperately needed now and has contributed to such inhumane treatment now such as the overwhelming homeless population.
Yes. I think it was a pretty awful thing , the illness and the attempts at a cure. In correspondence with Zelda's granddaughter Eleanor Lanahan, at one point I tried to make the point that perhaps Zelda wasn't as lost in her head as people were saying, she struck me as the saner of her grandparents- Eleanor was convinced that she was very sick, and not a candidate for zoloft and ,I'll see you in 6th months. She had talent, no doubt, but it wasn't controlled enough to communicate to the audience, neither the writing nor the art. Also, Eleanor did not find Scott to be the villian in Zeldas life. His alcoholism, yes certainly, but she felt that her grandmother was sick and would become more sick, with or without Scott. He didn't make her sick, it was a Sayre family mental disease that snaked through generations of the family. Eleanor's brother Tim, I believe, killed himself as a boy -- he was Scottie's child as was Eleanor- at any rate Zeldas fate was genetically sealed at birth, Scott's alcoholism exacerbated it. One last random thing: everyone seems to believe Scott using her words was more proof of his mistreatment of Zelda, and if it were that alone I would agree. There were instances where he did "borrow" her words without her knowledge or permission. But very often they would submit to Scribners a short story or article with only Scott as the author though Zelda may have written it in part, because the magazines payed $3000 for a story by F Scott Fitzgerald but wouldn't print a story by his wife. There were a few little filler pieces that were supposedly written by both or Zelda alone, but they were not the $3000 stories Scott needed to pay the bills. And they were always broke, living on loans and advances. It was Scott's talent they relied on to live, so when an opportunity arose, there wasn't a choice about who gets the byline, it had to be Scott.
@@deborahshallin5843 Thank goodness so many of those abusive places were shut down. Unfortunately, many (most?) of the ones that remain, still commit malpractice and assault against patients on a very regular basis.
I wish she’d been able to paint more, her stuff is fascinating, particularly knowing her floating mental/emotional states and her resultant perceptions. Her people look so bent and tortured, her flowers have a carnivorous quality.
Folie a deux sounds like a good description of their marriage. It's amazing that Scottie turned out so well! Thank you for this interesting portrait of Zelda.
@@professorgraemeyorstonI think Scottie had her demons too actually. She was a heavy drinker and smoker. Her son Tim committed suicide as a twenty something. I do think Zelda had an unfortunate mental inheritance. You mentioned her mother’s family history. Zelda’s brother also committed suicide. The poor man was afraid that that he was going to kill his mother so he killed himself rather than harm Mrs Sayre.
Well-done professor! A well-rounded view of Zelda. In regard to diagnosis as I once read not everybody fits neatly in the box such is her case. To some extent she was a product of her era and Southern Culture. It is not easy to deal with either alcoholism or mental illness. Yet, the relationship sustained it.
I read a biography on Zelda many years ago. I always felt her life was a tragedy of under appreciated talent and ability. Having had my own run-in with the psychiatric establishment, what Zelda went through at their hands was nothing less than torture. I’ve had a few run ins with that too so I know. She was a brave and talented woman who deserved a longer life and much more recognition.
Detox, I believe, wasn’t a term that was used during that time. I think, “ drying out “ was more appropriately used during that period. In all respect, I could be wrong. Lovely work and well done, thank you for sharing and all your hard work. Most sincerely.
I was struck by her importance when I saw her paintings in person at the Fitzgerald house museum in Montgomery, AL. I hadn't been familiar with her art until then. Her watercolors are so energetic and unique. It's so sad that she didn't get the help and support she needed.
I like her bright colors and bulbous forms. Unique. Sad that her work was not sold for more. The drawings shown here reveal a very deft hand. She deserved more. But then there are so many artists like that, who never get the recognition they deserve, Van Gogh being the most famous example.
37:03 Not being able to write about herself really hit me. She didn't have control or ownership of her life. She was his muse, not her own. Such a shame. Her only way out of the situation was to go into a hospital and away from him, but she was conditioned to believe she couldn't "live" without him. So very sad. ----- Thank you for your thought provoking videos. I always look forward to them.
@@professorgraemeyorstonThis is why, although enjoying his writing, I cannot admire him as a person. He also wrote that”some people will tell you that Zelda’s behaviour drove me to drink and others that my drinking drove her insane’. It is certain that so much drinking did neither of them any good. I’m so sorry for Zelda. She was a good but not brilliant dancer, writer and painter. I like her short stories and her novel “Save Me the Waltz”. Her paintings frighten me. This is such an excellent video, Graeme. I really enjoyed it.
In "Save me the waltz" she wrote about herself including her dancing experience. He only forbade her to write about her psychiatric experience since he was dealing with it in his novel in progress "Tender is the night."
F. S. Fitzgerald who was a professional writer didn't write what he liked. He had to please his agent and his publishers who kept advising him and vetoing what he wanted to write about. For instance they refused a genuine short story about the american civil war because they didn't think hanging by the thumbs was acceptable.
I have read "Save me the waltz" which is a very interesting title since it is usually uttered by young men rather than by young women. I was interested by her dancing experience in Paris. I was however very disappointed by the chapter devoted to the passage from the USA to Europe. I wanted to know what passengers travelling first class would talk about but failed to make any sense of her writing. Are you really surprised he forbade her to write about such a sensitive subject as her experience in psychiatric hospitals?
Your opinions always hit the mark. They are enlightening and fresh, and long overdue. I hope in time your well made and educational videos will be seen by the majority. In the meantime I will continue to share and I am always looking forward to the next. Thank you so much professor.
l recognized as Helga so l wrote. l didn't expect the continuity of it. Helga l said my first message you were my friend l am not sure about it. I am not sure You were friend. Later on, Few days or few months later l met you at Lisa's place. You invited me to your place for tea l came to your place with Holy May be you didn't expect for Two You were sorry unable to share a cup of coffee with me.Here also l am not sure to write down as tea or coffee Hellas didn't drink tea They drink tea when they have stomachache They put tea bag in boiling water then adding cinamon sticks I don't think it's a healthy drink more likely magic drink Let me go back Where we were Rejecting me to enter Panicking directing toward Your balcony a big bick I asked how did you bring that to the balcony? You know there are many thieves around this cosmopolitan city We must be vigilant. Must take every preventional mesures to safeguard every aspects of our lives and bick was brought up by her son using rope Very short intamacy I thought l have learned a lot I thanked her with all heartedly. We left. Few weeks or few months Iater l met Helga near by Lisa's place. I asked what happned to your face? Very big patch on her left cheek I had same on right. l was lucky curable easily She said l am much better now.l am a having special Treatment What's that? Antibiotic I am not a doctor I didn't give any advice I said good bye I don't think l saw her again ##### I am hoping and waiting Guide all of US to Enter ETERNAL!!!
I enjoyed seeing her paintings. She has a unique style, very talented as watercolor is the most difficult media to work in. What a shame that many of her paintings were destroyed and by a family member! It's been said that her ghost haunts the Grove Park Inn in Asheville! Considering her tragic death who knows? Thank you for this very informative documentary. Excellent!
13.50 minutes into the piece the narrator already reminds me of the endless supply of short stories by Scott, in no small measures generated by Zelda......
Once again thank you professor!!! I particulary like the tone of the pieces; going gentle with the psychiatric stuff and recognizing the briiliance. When its there. Such as in Zelda's paintings.
Thank you , professor. I live very near Asheville. I think I'll try to find where the hospital was and stand there and say a prayer for both Scott and Zelda. I always thought it horrifying and sad how she died. Didn't know a nurse had locked 9 women in their rooms. I wonder if the nurse ever had repercussions from that act. She should have. Once again, thanks.
@@professorgraemeyorston Thank you. We'll probably never know. The hospital was rebuilt and sold in 2015 to become a place for adolescent males to go for extended care after they've finished rehab. The only one available east of the Rockies! (as of 2015). There is a plaque noting the Zelda connection outside on the lawn.
Oh Zelda you were a queen of your time! It makes me sad to see the way he really treated her and how she was just called “crazy” and treated that way when she needed help yes but love and attention is what she needed most! She really was the artist of the family! Great job on this Doc SO FANTASTIC! ☺️
The fact that people labeled Zelda as "a distraction to her husband's life's work" is so condescending and sexist. And Scott himself, putting Zelda's private sentiments to him word-for-word in his own work and then having the nerve to accuse HER of plagiarizing when she wanted to write a book on the same subject he happened to be working on. Poor Zelda deserved so much better. Also, I completely agree with her on Hemingway being "a pain in the neck and phony as a rubber check". As a writer myself, I can't stand his style, and as a person, he seemed like an insufferable self-important blowhard.
Thank you for this completely fascinating documentary. You did a good job in teasing out the truth of this very complex relationship. I really like her artwork. Of added interest to me is, I am from Maryland, and still live there, and, my husband and I lived in Switzerland for a long time, so I knew many of the places mentioned. The usual way we pronounce “Towson” is the first syllable rhymes with “cow” :) Always happy when I see a new video, thanks very much Professor!
Hi professor. This is moving stuff. Loved the reappraisal at the end of the video. Of your own earlier work. Being the son of a talented and, dare i say, beautiful woman who married a bit 'below' her familys social standing,.... I feel I might add that full blown opera training is a therapeutic intervention that has had some effect on depressed women.
There's a thin line between genius and insanity, as we've seen in so many cases. Depression and suicide ran in the Hemingway family as well. The brilliant and hugely talented Oscar Levant ended up in mental institutions. Many others including numerous writers and painters, like Jackson Pollock, suffered similarly.
As someone who has been to multiple psych wards, including Johns Hopkins and Sheppard Pratt since I live in Baltimore, it's amazing to see how far we have come in nearly 100 years. The thing I am most surprised to hear is how bad SP seemed for Zelda because the hospital is part museum showing the history of psychiatry and always paints itself as the forerunner of ethical, humane psych treatment and that's what I always thought, especially since it is so nice now. Since Hopkins is a huge research hospital, I would have thought there would be where the sketchy, experimental psychiatry took place while SP was more on the actually helpful side of the spectrum.
Zelda was right. She was always right. She was right about Hemingway & she was right about Scott. Scott drove her crazy & sabotaged her treatment, although insanity ran in her family. Poor Zelda. So so so sad.
I was sceptical at first of some of the claims of the Zelda-camp, but although she undoubtedly had some genetic vulnerability, it is Scott who comes out as the villain.
@@professorgraemeyorston yes absolutely, although he was a great writer & he did wrestle with personal demons-all his own making. What a charmed life he would’ve had If he only had kept the alcohol under control. A great video among great videos!
@@professorgraemeyorston She was my friend She was going to church meeting with german friend Lisa Oneday as l remember it was wendesday. They invited me to church tea party They asked me to bring something for elderly ladies. I made a cake carrot cake with less sugar l went with them to Kolonaki German church next to the church there was an elderly ladies home It was first time l went to elderly home l sat with them lt was too much for me to watch There were so many cakes on the table. These old ladies were eating cakes all sort of sweets It was very unpleasant for me to watch old ladies eating that much sweet I told Helga and Lisa if you both concern about old ladies health shoudn't give them that much swees Helga said You shouldn't worry about that much they weren't eating everyday they having that much only once a week Then we went to otherside of the road meeting room. We learned how to make a little teddy bear with cotton material. While we were making bear we were talking about world politics then discussed about lndian politics Lady clergy was saying lndia is over populated because of religion They are so poor The way their talks l felt like they were insulting me l said stop insulting! Indian poverty They are poor because of British colonisation and so on There was lady Niggry Immeediatly l felt another nigger like me She said l should repect and obey holy clergy. Then my reply was l don't care holy or moly l tell the truth l must tell the truth nothing but truth Then Niggry said you are so rude This church for white people you shouldn't come to this church again. Then l left immediately leaving everything behind. lt was first and last visit to white German church elderly ladies home visit.Now l realised she was Helga's boyfriend and the friend This was Just a ' Double Dutch" .
I have a thought about why she didn’t take the dance opportunity. Perhaps she set a goal for herself that she thought impossible and when she achieved it, that was enough. It might not have been performance but to be good enough to perform. Just my thoughts
I think she was afraid to take the chance. Afraid she'd fail. Anxiety at this point in her life, pushed into her daily life. She had panic attacks, she imagined people who weren't there, she heard voices. She'd begun to take pills for sleep, for the panic..the general anxiety she felt as soon as Scott to 26:23 ok the first of his daily drinks. And alcohol, made sleeping more difficult, and the mornings after only soothed by taking another drink, along with Scott.
Most unbiased informative bio. All the 'ism's' broke her creative spirit... alcohol, plagurism, fanatic-ism, etc. The marriage sounds like a codependent narcissistic one on both sides, but more so on Scotts controlling her life and 'forbidding' her writing talent! Here's a couple insights - If she wrote publicly he could not steal her material...He saw her writing as competition, a direct threat. Truth be told, Even Today, Woe unto any Wife in direct competition with her Husband! Won't be pretty! Spoken frm experience. TY, I'll watch yr bio on Scott.
This is an excellently researched piece. Thank you for this. I think she would have fared better if they had divorced. Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda…alas poor Zelda.
Never heard of Zelda, glad you did a video on her. I put her book "Save Me The Waltz" to read. An artist I would be interesting watch video, would be Edvark Munch. The one who did the scream.
I wonder if her problems were not psychological in origin, but spiritual. It has been said there is a God-shaped hole in each of us, and no matter how much effort, or how many tangibles we gather, they cannot fill that void. It is possible when she recognized that, her healing actually began, and her frenetic energy could be harnessed. That would my guess.
In Montgomery, Alabama there is a bed and breakfast that was once a house where Scott and Zelda lived. They decorated the place with Scott and Zelda themes. It is interesting that without Zelda, Scott would not have had the motivation and creative ideas for The Jazz Age lost generation that his novels were based on. Can you please do an episode on Anna Anderson, the woman who claimed to be the grand duchess Anastasia Romanov?
It's astonishing to me how many of the greatest posts, novelists, artists, humorists, and other creative people of Scott and Zelda's generation were severe alcoholics. I often wonder how, or if, sobering up would have affected their work.
@@professorgraemeyorston, how about Jack London? I've found his life very interesting, the way he climed up, earned with his writing, got himself a property and established a fer comunity with his helpers...but there was something that drove him astray, as I understud he destroyed his health by eating food which harmed him.. And his mother, she was special..
After seeing your video on Scott, and how well it was done, I watched this video as well. I was disappointed that Gerald and Sarah Murphy weren't mentioned as they played a large part in the Fitzgeralds' Riviera life; and were present in at least two photos shown in this video. I agree with you and am up in the air about "who took whose" talent. Scott sometimes used too many adjectives in run-on sentences, which is reflective of Zelda's writing style; yet on the other side of the coin, his inspiration was his/their life.
I have double degrees in American literature and history. Just love your videos! Very informative, well-balanced and compassionate. Thank you for your work in putting these videos together!!
Professor, I love your videos. You deftly combine the artist with the science of psychiatry that is not exploitive but shows the subject as a dignified human being. I am a relative of psychiatrist/researcher/publisher on Schizophrenia and I love history, and you combine my two areas of interest in a skillful manner. I look forward to your videos.
55:10 😢 Her death was awful and her sister seems cruel burning her art work. Zelda was his muse. And he used her, was she a good writer ....Save the last waltz was so hastily written I'd say no. I tend to think Zelda was born in the wrong era. She was controlled because that's how girls were raised. Yet I doubt she would have avoided her mental anguish even if she married another man. They weren't a good match if they wanted a stable home. I feel her daughter Scottie probably was right. They were predisposed to drink and to their madness. I also think for women growing older can be so cruel. And maybe thats why Zelda preferred to be in treatment.
OMG she was an AMAZING Painter I feel perhaps IF Zelda had married someone of her Fathers Status whom could afford her the same life her Father provided perhaps she could have been the Woman she really was. I think this IS evidence of why the people in India have arranged marriages in addition to demonstrating how once in a institution OR the system how these modalities further damage or tramatize the individual. I am sure her husbands affaires did not help her as well. WoW she did not even attend her own husbands funeral this whole story is all so So SAD.
Thank-you for your DOC - it was extremely interesting. He died at 44 yrs old? She died accidentally at an early age as well...and her sister burned her beautiful paintings-her sister should be ashamed. Although the daughter says she had a good early life - it mustn't have been easy. From what I can understand, alcoholism - it burns the brain. And so does money. Have a nice day. 🙂
Since you are a psychiatrist I strongly advise you to read Ford Madox Ford's A good soldier, a novel published in 1916 describing two extravagant anglo saxon couples. There you will find plenty to analyse presumably starting with the author. It is a remarkably well structured novel.
Lois Moran was not exactly a Hollywood starlet. She was a charming and beautiful young woman. You should look at the photos. Her mother being twice widowed, she had neither father nor stepfather. She started working when she was a teenager. She just wanted what she had always been deprived of : a home and a family. She married in 1935 at 26. She probably would have liked to be married to F. S Fitzgerald or someone like him.
I have cats, F. Scott and Zelda. F Scott was such a baby love and he was so proud of himself climbing the tree across the street. He wanted me to always see him climbing the tree. It was his thing. Some cats just have a thing. Zelda was dropped off when everyone heard I was leaving town and taking the cats with me. I found her sitting on the side of the street. The most beautiful little thing with a heart ❤ shaped on her side. She and f scott had the same coloring and their markings were remarkably similar. Zelda was actually crippled in that one of her hind paws was twisted Inward. Her whole body is sort of like a bow shape. She only weighs six pounds. She has always been little and has exotically long hair. I haven't a clue what kind of cat she is. But when she starts running around with that little curved body, she goes in circles, so sometimes I call her tutu. She's like a little ballerina. And she's fierce. Most of the cats are really huge, fifteen to twenty pounds, and none of them mess with Little zelda.😊 Of course, this has nothing to do with the video, which I am enjoying very much.
People crave wealth and opportunity, but it seems to me, these two things become obstacles in their own right. It’s wonderfully difficult to define success…or what is, or has been, a successful life.
Having seen people from all walks of life coming towards the end of their lives, it seems to me that most of them value family more than anything else.
"He fended her off, giving her a nose bleed and a black eye." You mean, he BEAT her. She tried to take a drink away from an already inebriated man who is making an ass of himself and embarrassing her in from of her parents. He reacts by punching or hitting her in the face, repeatedly. (It would take at least two blows with a closed fist to both blacken an eye and bloody her nose.) Using the word "fend" makes it sound like this situation involved two equals in a voluntary fight. Why choose this word? It makes the audience doubt your dedication to creating a fair and accurate portrayal of this woman - and this man. There are many other instances of you downplaying the domestic violence that was done to this woman. My question is, why??
"Zelda confided to friends that the squabbling sometimes ended in violence when the doors were closed..." Again, you are distancing the subjects from the events. What was it she actually said? What did she endure? How did this physically and emotionally effect her? Why choose to omit this? While you do acknowledge it, you repeatedly gloss over the role domestic violence at the hands of an abusive alcoholic had on the development and prognosis of her mental illness. Why?
She said to friends that he was violent to her at times, but we don't have any more details than that. The bruise on this occasion came from falling back against a door, how much was a stumble and and how much a push we don't know. Your assertion about need two blows with a closed fist to cause a bruise is incorrect.
When I hear $50 a month it sounds like an extremely meager income, but in 1944 it would be equal to about $850 a month. I make only $200 more than that a month myself and today $1 still isn't anywhere as strong as in 1944.
Hey Professor Yorston, Wouldn’t it be good if you did a piece on Alex Turner from the Arctic Monkeys? I would absolutely love to experience what you are able to put together about him. Maybe it’s not your thing and that’s cool. Thanks for your videos, Ced
@@professorgraemeyorston I did not know that! Here are some then which you could potentially do if it's up your alley: Ian Curtis (band, Joy Division), Elliott Smith (musician), Helio Gracie (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) & Leandro Lo (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu). What makes you choose a person to do a video on?
Just discovered this channel. Such great content. Have you done Thomas Hardy. I am a big fan but would be curious on your take on his treatment of his wife Emma. He cheated and was probably horrible but the world justified this by categorising her as eccentric, mentally unstable- actually she was probably just doing the damn best she could in light of having an unfaithful husband who was in the limelight and only wrote lovely poetry about her after her death.
Incredibly sensitive rendering of a woman artist mother wife in “dangerous times”.(-all mod’n times are dangerous) I am deeply grooved by your complex portrayal and compassion. In a way we females are constantly raped of our inner balance by media. You have restored Zelda’s dignity and worth. GRRrrrattitude!!! She is a wonderful painter full of sterotype busting powers. No women in U$A actually survive intact. Dont know bout other worlds. Travel was more fun then. We can only imagine.
Zelda certainly had many accomplishments. They were hobbies rather than a profession and a source of income. In my opinion she was a talented spent thrift who ruined her husband's life as well as her own. I feel sorry for both of them. I can't help wondering what sort of marriage was theirs, what sort of catholics were they? I think that she lacked confidence in herself and needed admiration. Once their engagement broken was it sensible to resume their relationship?
I was surprised to hear that the agent or publisher let them choose whose signature they chose for articles. But of course apart from the problem of ownership it created between them it is the readers who were ultimately cheated.
Wasn't her friend Sara Haardt married to Mencken a genuinely talented woman? Was Zelda a talented mother and housewife? Was she a caring and supportive wife?
Zelda was a good writer- I read her memoir Save Me The Waltz. She was an excellent painter, too. Did Scott steal her writing? She certainly was a source of creativity for him. Her death was tragic. Thank you for your excellent piece, and for giving Zelda her due.
It would have been interesting to see how her writing would have developed if Scott hadn't forbidden her.
@@professorgraemeyorston She started a novel called “Jacob’s Things” but it turned into a complicated story and Nancy Milford said it suffered from “running straight into Zelda’s psychosis”. That’s her words. She obviously had read the rough draft of it.
it was not a memoir. It was a novel, fiction, and demonstrated her ability to write. It is said, she wrote it to show F. Scott that writing was not that hard. She was brilliant.
I think Scott could write but it was easier to use Zelda which to me makes him villainous & l think he was jealous of her zeal.
I’ve tried and tried to get through, “Waltz” but always wind up abandoning it. Her writing is just too confusing and oft times unnecessarily verbose, her imagery so dense. I commend you for reading & understanding it. Before I die I’d like to give it one more try, as Zelda has fascinated me for decades.❤
The most in-depth history of Zelda. Fascinating. Very well done. He took the time to find photos, paintings, manuscripts and historical documentation. All the things so visibly missing from most Zelda documentaries.
Thank you - they took some unearthing!
This was very interesting. Thank you so much! I recently saw a documentary or read an article about Zelda's paper doll designs which were colorful and imaginative (I am an artist). I find it interesting to hear that Scotty considered her childhood wonderful. As you discussed their lives, I think Scotty was in the photos quite a bit, so I think they went places as a trio most of the time. However, they probably had a nanny or nurse for her; if Zelda didn't know how to boil an egg she may not have ever learned how to mother a child either (she once made a statement in your video that she was past motherhood, all of it...). But Scotty looks happy next to her parents. So you never know what children will remember of their childhoods -- a father's alcoholism surely must not have been easy for Scotty to see nor deal with, and her mother's hospital trips must also have been quite worrying for a little girl and adolescent. Hm. I posit that Scotty must have had SOMEONE who she knew loved her deeply with no reservations whether it be her mom, dad or grandparents or other caregiver. So, a question arises, Professor Yorston: is mental illness inherited? Is it genetic? Perhaps it depends what sort of mental illness it is. Perhaps making a video about cases where it seemed to be genetic, and where it seemed to NOT be genetic would be interesting though I don't know if you can classify mental illnesses like that -- there is probably a lot of overlap.
Wonderful duo of biographies on this tragic couple. Well done Prof!
Thank you.
She was quite the artist , I love her work.
Alcohol has destroyed too many lives that could have gone on to create more beauty.
Famously sad lives.
I'm hooked on your channel, Professor, thank you.
Thank you, glad you're enjoying the vids!
Brilliant. Thank you for giving Zelda acknowledgment for her creativity. Her suffering was the other side of a vibrant life. It’s good to learn about her faith being comforting for her.
Thank you, she is seriously underestimated as a person.
I’ve studied Zelda Sayre Fitzgerald for years and your video, to me, seems the most fair and accurate assessment of her condition I’ve ever encountered. She was so highly talented in so many different arenas (I adore her artwork!) ; I’ve sometimes wondered if it would be fair to say she was also afflicted with ADHD. I really can’t add much to your account. Very well done bio|video. Certainly Scott’s severe alcoholism (& the accompanying acting-out ) exacerbated Zelda’s own disordered mental state.
I particularly enjoyed this presentation, thanks so much. 🌹
Thank you, I love her art as well.
Mmm, pretty sure she was a bad boozer and also delusional. So there’s that. It’s fine. We all have our problems.
i politely disagree that she had ADHD. I'll lay 10:1 odds that Zelda had bipolar disorder. The excessive spending, taking extreme risks, mania (constant need to party), extreme mood swings, all classic symptoms. As the untreated disease progressed she would have experienced hallucinations and delusions, which would have led to the misdiagnosis of schizophrenia.
I agree with the bi-polar diagnosis.
I believe she had ADHD and was also on the autism spectrum. It was her neurodiversity in a time when such a thing was unheard of combined with a pattern of psychological trauma (also allegedly she had been raped) that caused her mental health to collapse. Not schizophrenia and not bipolar disorder which are often misdiagnoses for traumatized people.
convincing, professor yorston: gently, quietly, thoroughly presented--thank you
Thank you.
I agree such that the way Prof. Yorstòn presents his research and story of his subjects is mesmerizing in and of itself ...
Yorston brings his audience along "gently, quietly, throughly" ....
A storyteller of stories .... 🇨🇦
What a story. I'm not sure if it was worse having a mental illness before anyone tried to cure them, or the first 70 years or so of trying to cure them. Another great video.
I think the "treatment" in mental hospitals got worse in the first half of the 20th century as authorities began to worry about the rising numbers and costs.
@@professorgraemeyorstonhence the ridiculous time of closing mental hospitals which are so desperately needed now and has contributed to such inhumane treatment now such as the overwhelming homeless population.
Yes. I think it was a pretty awful thing , the illness and the attempts at a cure.
In correspondence with Zelda's granddaughter Eleanor Lanahan, at one point I tried to make the point that perhaps Zelda wasn't as lost in her head as people were saying, she struck me as the saner of her grandparents- Eleanor was convinced that she was very sick, and not a candidate for zoloft and ,I'll see you in 6th months. She had talent, no doubt, but it wasn't controlled enough to communicate to the audience, neither the writing nor the art.
Also, Eleanor did not find Scott to be the villian in Zeldas life. His alcoholism, yes certainly, but she felt that her grandmother was sick and would become more sick, with or without Scott. He didn't make her sick, it was a Sayre family mental disease that snaked through generations of the family. Eleanor's brother Tim, I believe, killed himself as a boy -- he was Scottie's child as was Eleanor- at any rate Zeldas fate was genetically sealed at birth, Scott's alcoholism exacerbated it.
One last random thing: everyone seems to believe Scott using her words was more proof of his mistreatment of Zelda, and if it were that alone I would agree. There were instances where he did "borrow" her words without her knowledge or permission.
But very often they would submit to Scribners a short story or article with only Scott as the author though Zelda may have written it in part, because the magazines payed $3000 for a story by F Scott Fitzgerald but wouldn't print a story by his wife.
There were a few little filler pieces that were supposedly written by both or Zelda alone, but they were not the $3000
stories Scott needed to pay the bills. And they were always broke, living on loans and advances.
It was Scott's talent they relied on to live, so when an opportunity arose, there wasn't a choice about who gets the byline, it had to be Scott.
@@deborahshallin5843 Thank goodness so many of those abusive places were shut down. Unfortunately, many (most?) of the ones that remain, still commit malpractice and assault against patients on a very regular basis.
Well done. I think this is the best critique of Zelda Fitzgerald that has EVER been done. Well done!
Wow, thank you, high praise indeed.
I’ve been waiting for you to do this since your previous video about her husband. Fascinating, informative, interesting and your voice is soothing 😊
Glad you enjoyed it.
I wish she’d been able to paint more, her stuff is fascinating, particularly knowing her floating mental/emotional states and her resultant perceptions. Her people look so bent and tortured, her flowers have a carnivorous quality.
I agree - she is usually dismissed as a painter - but I think her pictures have some depth.
Fantastic, I had the wrong impression of Zelda and this really corrected it.
Oh this was wonderful- youve added so much, and pictures and photos, new to me anyway. Bravo, Professor, and sincere thanks again!😊
Glad you enjoyed it
Folie a deux sounds like a good description of their marriage. It's amazing that Scottie turned out so well! Thank you for this interesting portrait of Zelda.
Yes, Scottie seems to have been a stable balanced individual.
@@professorgraemeyorstonI think Scottie had her demons too actually. She was a heavy drinker and smoker. Her son Tim committed suicide as a twenty something. I do think Zelda had an unfortunate mental inheritance. You mentioned her mother’s family history. Zelda’s brother also committed suicide. The poor man was afraid that that he was going to kill his mother so he killed himself rather than harm Mrs Sayre.
Well-done professor! A well-rounded view of Zelda. In regard to diagnosis as I once read not everybody fits neatly in the box such is her case. To some extent she was a product of her era and Southern Culture. It is not easy to deal with either alcoholism or mental illness. Yet, the relationship sustained it.
I read a biography on Zelda many years ago. I always felt her life was a tragedy of under appreciated talent and ability. Having had my own run-in with the psychiatric establishment, what Zelda went through at their hands was nothing less than torture. I’ve had a few run ins with that too so I know. She was a brave and talented woman who deserved a longer life and much more recognition.
Detox, I believe, wasn’t a term that was used during that time. I think, “ drying out “ was more appropriately used during that period. In all respect, I could be wrong. Lovely work and well done, thank you for sharing and all your hard work. Most sincerely.
I was struck by her importance when I saw her paintings in person at the Fitzgerald house museum in Montgomery, AL. I hadn't been familiar with her art until then. Her watercolors are so energetic and unique. It's so sad that she didn't get the help and support she needed.
I haven't seen any of her paintings in person, but that energy still comes through in the reproductions.
I like her bright colors and bulbous forms. Unique. Sad that her work was not sold for more. The drawings shown here reveal a very deft hand. She deserved more. But then there are so many artists like that, who never get the recognition they deserve, Van Gogh being the most famous example.
37:03 Not being able to write about herself really hit me. She didn't have control or ownership of her life. She was his muse, not her own. Such a shame. Her only way out of the situation was to go into a hospital and away from him, but she was conditioned to believe she couldn't "live" without him. So very sad. ----- Thank you for your thought provoking videos. I always look forward to them.
I agree, to think that that Scott considered her life his material is shocking.
@@professorgraemeyorstonThis is why, although enjoying his writing, I cannot admire him as a person. He also wrote that”some people will tell you that Zelda’s behaviour drove me to drink and others that my drinking drove her insane’. It is certain that so much drinking did neither of them any good. I’m so sorry for Zelda. She was a good but not brilliant dancer, writer and painter. I like her short stories and her novel “Save Me the Waltz”. Her paintings frighten me. This is such an excellent video, Graeme. I really enjoyed it.
In "Save me the waltz" she wrote about herself including her dancing experience. He only forbade her to write about her psychiatric experience since he was dealing with it in his novel in progress "Tender is the night."
F. S. Fitzgerald who was a professional writer didn't write what he liked. He had to please his agent and his publishers who kept advising him and vetoing what he wanted to write about. For instance they refused a genuine short story about the american civil war because they didn't think hanging by the thumbs was acceptable.
I have read "Save me the waltz" which is a very interesting title since it is usually uttered by young men rather than by young women. I was interested by her dancing experience in Paris. I was however very disappointed by the chapter devoted to the passage from the USA to Europe. I wanted to know what passengers travelling first class would talk about but failed to make any sense of her writing. Are you really surprised he forbade her to write about such a sensitive subject as her experience in psychiatric hospitals?
Your opinions always hit the mark. They are enlightening and fresh, and long overdue. I hope in time your well made and educational videos will be seen by the majority. In the meantime I will continue to share and I am always looking forward to the next. Thank you so much professor.
I appreciate that!
l recognized as Helga so l wrote. l didn't expect the continuity of it. Helga l said my first message you were my friend l am not sure about it. I am not sure You were friend.
Later on, Few days or few months later l met you at Lisa's place. You invited me to your place for tea l came to your place with Holy May be you didn't expect for Two
You were sorry unable to share a cup of coffee with me.Here also l am not sure to write down as tea or coffee
Hellas didn't drink tea
They drink tea when they have stomachache
They put tea bag in boiling water then adding cinamon sticks
I don't think it's a healthy drink more likely magic drink
Let me go back
Where we were
Rejecting me to enter
Panicking directing toward
Your balcony a big bick
I asked how did you bring that to the balcony?
You know there are many thieves
around this cosmopolitan
city We must be vigilant.
Must take every preventional
mesures to safeguard every
aspects of our lives and
bick was brought up by her
son using rope
Very short intamacy
I thought l have learned a lot
I thanked her with all heartedly.
We left.
Few weeks or few months
Iater l met Helga near by Lisa's place.
I asked what happned to your face? Very big patch on her
left cheek
I had same on right. l was
lucky curable easily
She said l am much better now.l am a having special
Treatment
What's that?
Antibiotic
I am not a doctor
I didn't give any advice
I said good bye
I don't think l saw her again
#####
I am hoping and waiting
Guide all of US to Enter
ETERNAL!!!
I enjoyed seeing her paintings. She has a unique style, very talented as watercolor is the most difficult media to work in. What a shame that many of her paintings were destroyed and by a family member! It's been said that her ghost haunts the Grove Park Inn in Asheville! Considering her tragic death who knows? Thank you for this very informative documentary. Excellent!
Glad you enjoyed it.
Her paintings and painting style reminds of the English painter Francis Bacon; the same deforming of reality.
Thank you. Life is hard and not everyone can color within the lines of society. ❤
Very true, I think both of them went quite a long way over the lines!
😮
Isaiah 35:5,6
I have just started watching your videos Prof Yorston and I find your analysis carefully crafted and insightful.
This was outstanding, well balanced and researched. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
13.50 minutes into the piece the narrator already reminds me of the endless supply of short stories by Scott, in no small measures generated by Zelda......
Once again thank you professor!!! I particulary like the tone of the pieces; going gentle with the psychiatric stuff and recognizing the briiliance. When its there. Such as in Zelda's paintings.
I think she was a genuine artistic talent.
Most authors Write about the people in their lives The saying goes " Write what you know"
I enjoyed this so much. I never knew of her tragic death. What a 😊 unique woman!
She was indeed.
Thank you , professor. I live very near Asheville. I think I'll try to find where the hospital was and stand there and say a prayer for both Scott and Zelda. I always thought it horrifying and sad how she died. Didn't know a nurse had locked 9 women in their rooms. I wonder if the nurse ever had repercussions from that act. She should have.
Once again, thanks.
I think they tried to blame the fire on another patient, but nothing was ever proved.
@@professorgraemeyorston Thank you. We'll probably never know.
The hospital was rebuilt and sold in 2015 to become a place for adolescent males to go for extended care after they've finished rehab. The only one available east of the Rockies! (as of 2015).
There is a plaque noting the Zelda connection outside on the lawn.
Oh Zelda you were a queen of your time! It makes me sad to see the way he really treated her and how she was just called “crazy” and treated that way when she needed help yes but love and attention is what she needed most! She really was the artist of the family! Great job on this Doc SO FANTASTIC! ☺️
Thank you.
The fact that people labeled Zelda as "a distraction to her husband's life's work" is so condescending and sexist. And Scott himself, putting Zelda's private sentiments to him word-for-word in his own work and then having the nerve to accuse HER of plagiarizing when she wanted to write a book on the same subject he happened to be working on. Poor Zelda deserved so much better. Also, I completely agree with her on Hemingway being "a pain in the neck and phony as a rubber check". As a writer myself, I can't stand his style, and as a person, he seemed like an insufferable self-important blowhard.
She had a very raw deal.
Thank you , professor. I've been waiting for this one for a while
Me as well! Zelda is a fascinating personality❣️🌹
I'm happy for you both.
It took a while as I wanted to do her justice.
I agree!
Another woman I would love to go back in time and hug. Poor Zelda. Poor Scottie I’m sure she grew up with major emotional issues too
Scottie seems to have blotted it all out and lived a normal life.
Thank you for this completely fascinating documentary. You did a good job in teasing out the truth of this very complex relationship. I really like her artwork. Of added interest to me is, I am from Maryland, and still live there, and, my husband and I lived in Switzerland for a long time, so I knew many of the places mentioned. The usual way we pronounce “Towson” is the first syllable rhymes with “cow” :) Always happy when I see a new video, thanks very much Professor!
Thank you, I seem to get the pronunciation of American placenames wrong more than French and Dutch ones!
Hemmingway calling Zelda insane. Thats a good one
Honestly. Cant stand ernest. Booooooo
Same here!
He was a Horrible, Extreme Chauvinist, and a pretty mediocre Author, it is quite doubtful is he would find a Publisher today.
@@bendewet1057 I can tell you' ve never read Hemingway
Her art is exquisite...I would absolutely love to have one of her pieces.
Me too! It's terrible to think her sister just burned them.
They do offer prints of her work now at the Montgomery museum
These are wonderful. Just finished F. Scott episode ❤😊❤
Wow, you're getting through them!
Now, I know the legend of Zelda and why she needed saving from a dark monster.
Good point - I know the game was named after her, but hadn't thought of that angle!
Hi professor. This is moving stuff. Loved the reappraisal at the end of the video. Of your own earlier work. Being the son of a talented and, dare i say, beautiful woman who married a bit 'below' her familys social standing,.... I feel I might add that full blown opera training is a therapeutic intervention that has had some effect on depressed women.
Thank you, I think pursuing something you feel passionate about is beneficial to most people.
There's a thin line between genius and insanity, as we've seen in so many cases. Depression and suicide ran in the Hemingway family as well. The brilliant and hugely talented Oscar Levant ended up in mental institutions. Many others including numerous writers and painters, like Jackson Pollock, suffered similarly.
It is an endlessly fascinating connection.
Very well told . I think she has finally come out of the shadows and into the light , where she belongs .
As someone who has been to multiple psych wards, including Johns Hopkins and Sheppard Pratt since I live in Baltimore, it's amazing to see how far we have come in nearly 100 years. The thing I am most surprised to hear is how bad SP seemed for Zelda because the hospital is part museum showing the history of psychiatry and always paints itself as the forerunner of ethical, humane psych treatment and that's what I always thought, especially since it is so nice now. Since Hopkins is a huge research hospital, I would have thought there would be where the sketchy, experimental psychiatry took place while SP was more on the actually helpful side of the spectrum.
At least she got out of JH and SP - unlike Highlands where she was locked in her room!
Zelda was right. She was always right. She was right about Hemingway & she was right about Scott. Scott drove her crazy & sabotaged her treatment, although insanity ran in her family. Poor Zelda. So so so sad.
I was sceptical at first of some of the claims of the Zelda-camp, but although she undoubtedly had some genetic vulnerability, it is Scott who comes out as the villain.
@@professorgraemeyorstonsounds like she was bipolar. Mania and bouts of severe depression. Deep sense of self hatred. Good video.
@@professorgraemeyorston yes absolutely, although he was a great writer & he did wrestle with personal demons-all his own making. What a charmed life he would’ve had If he only had kept the alcohol under control.
A great video among great videos!
Fitzgerald needed Zelda more than she him. He was a weak man whose best writing only occurred when they were together.
@@professorgraemeyorston She was my friend She was going to church meeting with german friend Lisa
Oneday as l remember it was wendesday. They invited me to church tea party They
asked me to bring something for elderly
ladies. I made a cake
carrot cake with less sugar l went with them to
Kolonaki German church next to the church there was an elderly ladies home It was first time l went to elderly home l sat with them lt was too much for me to watch There were so many cakes on the table. These old ladies were eating
cakes all sort of sweets
It was very unpleasant for me to watch old ladies eating that much sweet
I told Helga and Lisa if you both concern about old ladies health shoudn't give them that much swees Helga said
You shouldn't worry about that much they weren't eating everyday they having that much only once a week
Then we went to otherside
of the road meeting room.
We learned how to make a little teddy bear with cotton material.
While we were making bear we were talking about world politics then discussed about lndian politics Lady clergy was saying lndia is over populated because of religion They are so poor
The way their talks l felt like they were insulting me l said stop insulting! Indian poverty They are poor because of British colonisation and so on There was lady Niggry
Immeediatly l felt another nigger like me
She said l should repect and obey holy clergy.
Then my reply was l don't
care holy or moly l tell the truth l must tell the truth nothing but truth
Then Niggry said you are so rude This church for white
people you shouldn't come to this church again. Then l left immediately leaving everything behind. lt was first and last visit to white German church elderly ladies home visit.Now l realised she was Helga's boyfriend and the friend This was
Just a ' Double Dutch"
.
I have a thought about why she didn’t take the dance opportunity. Perhaps she set a goal for herself that she thought impossible and when she achieved it, that was enough. It might not have been performance but to be good enough to perform. Just my thoughts
I think she was afraid to take the chance. Afraid she'd fail. Anxiety at this point in her life, pushed into her daily life. She had panic attacks, she imagined people who weren't there, she heard voices. She'd begun to take pills for sleep, for the panic..the general anxiety she felt as soon as Scott to 26:23 ok the first of his daily drinks.
And alcohol, made sleeping more difficult, and the mornings after only soothed by taking another drink, along with Scott.
Most unbiased informative bio. All the 'ism's' broke her creative spirit... alcohol, plagurism, fanatic-ism, etc. The marriage sounds like a codependent narcissistic one on both sides, but more so on Scotts controlling her life and 'forbidding' her writing talent! Here's a couple insights - If she wrote publicly he could not steal her material...He saw her writing as competition, a direct threat. Truth be told, Even Today, Woe unto any Wife in direct competition with her Husband! Won't be pretty! Spoken frm experience. TY, I'll watch yr bio on Scott.
Yes, I think the Baltimore psychiatrist was correct in identifying their co-dependency.
Excellent work!!!
Thank you.
Thank you for this informative presentation
Glad you enjoyed it.
This is an excellently researched piece. Thank you for this. I think she would have fared better if they had divorced. Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda…alas poor Zelda.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Never heard of Zelda, glad you did a video on her. I put her book "Save Me The Waltz" to read.
An artist I would be interesting watch video, would be Edvark Munch. The one who did the scream.
Thank you, he is on my to do list!
I wonder if her problems were not psychological in origin, but spiritual. It has been said there is a God-shaped hole in each of us, and no matter how much effort, or how many tangibles we gather, they cannot fill that void. It is possible when she recognized that, her healing actually began, and her frenetic energy could be harnessed. That would my guess.
This was wonderful. Thank you.
Love her painting. I'm surprised I haven't heard of it before.
She is very much under the shadow of her husband.
Grateful to hear the story through Zelda's side.
In Montgomery, Alabama there is a bed and breakfast that was once a house where Scott and Zelda lived. They decorated the place with Scott and Zelda themes.
It is interesting that without Zelda, Scott would not have had the motivation and creative ideas for The Jazz Age lost generation that his novels were based on.
Can you please do an episode on Anna Anderson, the woman who claimed to be the grand duchess Anastasia Romanov?
That's an interesting suggestion, thank you.
Brilliant commentary, thank you
Thank you.
I absolutely love your documentaries!!!!!
Thank you.
It's astonishing to me how many of the greatest posts, novelists, artists, humorists, and other creative people of Scott and Zelda's generation were severe alcoholics. I often wonder how, or if, sobering up would have affected their work.
He would have lived longer so we might have got another novel or two from him, but the quality...who knows?
@@professorgraemeyorston”The Last Tycoon” showed that it could be as good as his earlier novels.
❤
@@professorgraemeyorston😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
😊😊😊
😊😊
Thank you gentle profesor! ❤
You're very welcome!
@@professorgraemeyorston, how about Jack London? I've found his life very interesting, the way he climed up, earned with his writing, got himself a property and established a fer comunity with his helpers...but there was something that drove him astray, as I understud he destroyed his health by eating food which harmed him.. And his mother, she was special..
Surprised that the diagnosis of alcoholic psychosis wasnt mentioned
Thank you, Professor Yorston, for this interesting history.
Sir, I love your tone. Thank you
The font for the titles makes Y look like V. I thought his name was Vorsten and Zelda's name was Savre.
After seeing your video on Scott, and how well it was done, I watched this video as well. I was disappointed that Gerald and Sarah Murphy weren't mentioned as they played a large part in the Fitzgeralds' Riviera life; and were present in at least two photos shown in this video. I agree with you and am up in the air about "who took whose" talent. Scott sometimes used too many adjectives in run-on sentences, which is reflective of Zelda's writing style; yet on the other side of the coin, his inspiration was his/their life.
The Murphy's were in an earlier draft, but it just kept getting longer and longer!
Really enjoyed this video.
Could I suggest you possibly do a video on Vivian Leigh please? 🙏
I'll look into her.
This was fascinating. Thank you for your work. Have you thought to do one on Sylvia Plath?
Thanks, yes Sylvia Plath is on the to-do list.
I think Zelda would have been such an interesting and fun person, she was lovely and I agree with her about Hemingway too!
Maybe a bit spoiled when she was young...but I would have loved to have met her later.
What a shame that her writings and paintings are lost.
Her writings have survived as have many of her pictures, but it is hard to believe that her sister would burn those that were left in the house.
I have double degrees in American literature and history. Just love your videos! Very informative, well-balanced and compassionate.
Thank you for your work in putting these videos together!!
@@professorgraemeyorstonCan you speculate why Zelda's sister burned Zelda's paintings : jealousy, embarrassment, shame, pity, 'closure', etc. ? 🇨🇦
Thank you! Have you read Everybody Was So Young? She was an alcoholic ..also F Scott. Obviously. It’s
really sad. Just…
I didn't mention the Murphys, they are clearly important to the lives of the Fitzgeralds, but the video was getting too long!
When was this produced?
This was very interesting Ty
What's a bit strange...Sheppard Pratt is still a working hospital for mental health. It was still an exciting life! Great video!
Professor, I love your videos. You deftly combine the artist with the science of psychiatry that is not exploitive but shows the subject as a dignified human being. I am a relative of psychiatrist/researcher/publisher on Schizophrenia and I love history, and you combine my two areas of interest in a skillful manner. I look forward to your videos.
Thank you.
I kept waiting for Talullah Bankhead to appear.
Childhood friend.
55:10 😢 Her death was awful and her sister seems cruel burning her art work.
Zelda was his muse. And he used her, was she a good writer ....Save the last waltz was so hastily written I'd say no.
I tend to think Zelda was born in the wrong era. She was controlled because that's how girls were raised. Yet I doubt she would have avoided her mental anguish even if she married another man. They weren't a good match if they wanted a stable home. I feel her daughter Scottie probably was right. They were predisposed to drink and to their madness. I also think for women growing older can be so cruel. And maybe thats why Zelda preferred to be in treatment.
It is interesting to think how their lives might have panned out if they'd never met.
The title of Zelda's novel is Save Me The Waltz,
The Last Waltz is a film about The Band.
$36,000 was a fortune back then, but noting to sneeze at today either. I would spend it wisely.
I don't think either of them knew how to spend wisely!
Thank you!
OMG she was an AMAZING Painter I feel perhaps IF Zelda had married someone of her Fathers Status whom could afford her the same life her Father provided perhaps she could have been the Woman she really was. I think this IS evidence of why the people in India have arranged marriages in addition to demonstrating how once in a institution OR the system how these modalities further damage or tramatize the individual. I am sure her husbands affaires did not help her as well. WoW she did not even attend her own husbands funeral this whole story is all so So SAD.
I know what you mean, but her mother was married off to a solid, but boring man, she wasn't happy and suffered periods of depression.
Thank-you for your DOC - it was extremely interesting. He died at 44 yrs old? She died accidentally at an early age as well...and her sister burned her beautiful paintings-her sister should be ashamed. Although the daughter says she had a good early life - it mustn't have been easy. From what I can understand, alcoholism - it burns the brain. And so does money. Have a nice day. 🙂
Thank you, it does indeed!
Since you are a psychiatrist I strongly advise you to read Ford Madox Ford's A good soldier, a novel published in 1916 describing two extravagant anglo saxon couples. There you will find plenty to analyse presumably starting with the author. It is a remarkably well structured novel.
Thanks, I'll take a look.
Lois Moran was not exactly a Hollywood starlet. She was a charming and beautiful young woman. You should look at the photos.
Her mother being twice widowed, she had neither father nor stepfather. She started working when she was a teenager. She just wanted what she had always been deprived of : a home and a family.
She married in 1935 at 26. She probably would have liked to be married to F. S Fitzgerald or someone like him.
I have cats, F. Scott and Zelda. F Scott was such a baby love and he was so proud of himself climbing the tree across the street. He wanted me to always see him climbing the tree. It was his thing. Some cats just have a thing.
Zelda was dropped off when everyone heard I was leaving town and taking the cats with me. I found her sitting on the side of the street. The most beautiful little thing with a heart ❤ shaped on her side. She and f scott had the same coloring and their markings were remarkably similar. Zelda was actually crippled in that one of her hind paws was twisted Inward. Her whole body is sort of like a bow shape. She only weighs six pounds. She has always been little and has exotically long hair. I haven't a clue what kind of cat she is. But when she starts running around with that little curved body, she goes in circles, so sometimes I call her tutu. She's like a little ballerina. And she's fierce. Most of the cats are really huge, fifteen to twenty pounds, and none of them mess with Little zelda.😊 Of course, this has nothing to do with the video, which I am enjoying very much.
She sounds a character, your Zelda!
After I graduated from college and had a job, I got two kittens and named them Scott and Zelda. They lived nice, long lives as indoor cats.
People crave wealth and opportunity, but it seems to me, these two things become obstacles in their own right. It’s wonderfully difficult to define success…or what is, or has been, a successful life.
Having seen people from all walks of life coming towards the end of their lives, it seems to me that most of them value family more than anything else.
Couldn't agree more.
Are you related to HG Tudor?
😂
"He fended her off, giving her a nose bleed and a black eye." You mean, he BEAT her. She tried to take a drink away from an already inebriated man who is making an ass of himself and embarrassing her in from of her parents. He reacts by punching or hitting her in the face, repeatedly. (It would take at least two blows with a closed fist to both blacken an eye and bloody her nose.) Using the word "fend" makes it sound like this situation involved two equals in a voluntary fight. Why choose this word? It makes the audience doubt your dedication to creating a fair and accurate portrayal of this woman - and this man. There are many other instances of you downplaying the domestic violence that was done to this woman. My question is, why??
"Still seeing herself more of a belle than a housewife..." Why the false dichotomy? Can't a housewife dance publicly? She's nineteen years old!
"Zelda confided to friends that the squabbling sometimes ended in violence when the doors were closed..." Again, you are distancing the subjects from the events. What was it she actually said? What did she endure? How did this physically and emotionally effect her? Why choose to omit this? While you do acknowledge it, you repeatedly gloss over the role domestic violence at the hands of an abusive alcoholic had on the development and prognosis of her mental illness. Why?
She said to friends that he was violent to her at times, but we don't have any more details than that. The bruise on this occasion came from falling back against a door, how much was a stumble and and how much a push we don't know. Your assertion about need two blows with a closed fist to cause a bruise is incorrect.
When I hear $50 a month it sounds like an extremely meager income, but in 1944 it would be equal to about $850 a month. I make only $200 more than that a month myself and today $1 still isn't anywhere as strong as in 1944.
Good point.
That Rotary dial phone
Hey Professor Yorston,
Wouldn’t it be good if you did a piece on Alex Turner from the Arctic Monkeys?
I would absolutely love to experience what you are able to put together about him.
Maybe it’s not your thing and that’s cool.
Thanks for your videos,
Ced
Thanks Ced, as a practising psychiatrist I can't do anyone who is alive.
@@professorgraemeyorston I did not know that!
Here are some then which you could potentially do if it's up your alley: Ian Curtis (band, Joy Division), Elliott Smith (musician), Helio Gracie (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) & Leandro Lo (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu).
What makes you choose a person to do a video on?
Just discovered this channel. Such great content. Have you done Thomas Hardy. I am a big fan but would be curious on your take on his treatment of his wife Emma. He cheated and was probably horrible but the world justified this by categorising her as eccentric, mentally unstable- actually she was probably just doing the damn best she could in light of having an unfaithful husband who was in the limelight and only wrote lovely poetry about her after her death.
I enjoyed this.
Thank you.
Incredibly sensitive rendering of a woman artist mother wife in “dangerous times”.(-all mod’n times are dangerous) I am deeply grooved by your complex portrayal and compassion. In a way we females are constantly raped of our inner balance by media. You have restored Zelda’s dignity and worth. GRRrrrattitude!!! She is a wonderful painter full of sterotype busting powers. No women in U$A actually survive intact. Dont know bout other worlds. Travel was more fun then. We can only imagine.
Thank you, I feel she is deeply misunderstood individual whose achievements have been overshadowed by those of her husband.
Zelda certainly had many accomplishments. They were hobbies rather than a profession and a source of income. In my opinion she was a talented spent thrift who ruined her husband's life as well as her own. I feel sorry for both of them. I can't help wondering what sort of marriage was theirs, what sort of catholics were they? I think that she lacked confidence in herself and needed admiration. Once their engagement broken was it sensible to resume their relationship?
Interesting question - would they have lived longer without each other?
Amazing video, thank you! You have a voice of a God...
What? The voice of a GOD? Mmmmhmmm. Fan girl. ;)
Thank you, but just an ordinary mortal!
Liked and Subscribed.
Welcome aboard.
So, Nintendo named the character Princess Zelda after Zelda Fitzgerald. Is that about right?
Apparently so, but I can't see the connection.
I was surprised to hear that the agent or publisher let them choose whose signature they chose for articles. But of course apart from the problem of ownership it created between them it is the readers who were ultimately cheated.
Very well done! May I suggest Karen Carpenter as a future subject?
Agreed
Wasn't her friend Sara Haardt married to Mencken a genuinely talented woman?
Was Zelda a talented mother and housewife?
Was she a caring and supportive wife?
Yes, Sara continued her work after her marriage until her untimely from tuberculous meningitis at the age of 37.
Have a Merry Christmas everyone