Being raised in a church where women weren’t able to preach and only speaking in front of the church never in the pulpit, it was amazing to see Women in Ministry moving forward. Dr. Wesley I applaud you on your willingness to take a stand despite what you may and may not have lost within Ministry. These women were absolutely Amazing to listen to. I pray as we grow in Christ many more women will preach the Gospel of Christ like never before. We are more than conquerors. Thank you all for your dedication . So inspiring.
I learned so much and this was a very informative platform. I applaud all of the women who are and have paved the road for me who was called to preach by God himself when I was in college 19 years old. Trust and believe I would have never called me to preach 😊! However m, I thank God for seeing and knowing me to use me as a vessel and ambassador to preach His Word! And I am so glad that God is not like man. I graciously accepted the call scared and all and will do what God said. ❤❤❤
I shed tears for this conversation elicited recollections of deep pain inflicted as God manifested my calling in the beginning of ministry. Rev. Dr. Wesley I commend you for being an advocate actively engaged in leveling the playing field. The caliber, academic accomplishments coupled with the spiritual discernment of these exceptional women leaders blessed me and resonated within my spirit as I draw closer to God. Thank you for Pushing It!!
Wow, I didn’t think about how much our cultural understanding influences our understanding of scripture. “The God of Abraham and Sarah, Issac and Rebecca, etc.” 🤔 I like that approach/description.
My female seminary professors advised that they never were allowed to preach but the men they "taught" and "trained" with less experience and knowledge were allowed to mount the pulpit before them. I appreciate this discussion. However, after discussion, there must be action and accountability. God Bless You All!
Love this as a new Preacher, not young but new to preaching. I know this happens because often you see this in the eyes of men and women who stay in tradition.
This is great open dialogue regarding male/female position in the church. Who was the first to go back to tell the disciples that Jesus has Risen? A Woman!🙏🏼☝🏿👋🏽👏🏼
Listen.... I was just trying to gain a better understanding on this.. praise God for this lesson! I love what Pastor Wesley is doing throughout these " can I push it" episodes.
I am not not against Women preaching in the church; I actually support it, but this was more opinion and not WORD! Our opinion means little/ nothing against the WORD! If you are going to say women can preach, or can’t preach ( again I believe that they can And I have one or two verses to support that) but what about the WORD? Maybe I had the wrong thought for this! Complete and total remand honor to the ladies on the panel for this, but I had hoped for more WORD! I govern myself according to the WORD and had hope to get more WORD to support what I believe!!
A strange phenomenon in the Black church that marginalizes women by denying their calls to preach and lead in the church is the fact that many of the men and women who support this madness were raised single-handedly by women (or a group of women) - because that's the narrative of many Black homes. How can you acknowledge the gift of your mother's ministry to you and then state that women should have no authority in the church? It baffles me.
This is an excellent conversation. I am not called into Ministry yet this is very relevant in both my private life as well as in my professional life in the corporate world. ASBC is truly relevant; thank you for creating this space Pastor Wesley!
This was an awesome dialogue I really enjoyed this conversation and think this topic is relevant to the church structure. I would also add that one of my experience seeing a woman preaching, is that a woman comes to the pulpit through her husband as the lead pastor. Through her husband is how she is able to get on the pulpit and give the word. Outside of that she would not have direct access to preaching.
I got saved at 29 out of a Jehovah's Witnesses back ground where there were no female overseers, and whenever females were on the platform, or even read scripture out loud in the congregation, they wore head coverings ... So for a long time after I got saved I was very female Pastor averse to the point of where I would walk out of a church if a woman preached, and I vowed I'd never belong to a church with a female lead Pastor. Over the years I've softened, and while from my understanding of scripture I still don't believe there should be female Pastors I no longer will walk out, as I leave that situation to be between the sister and the Lord. So as long as the sister Pastor brings the Word I'm good, but I'm still not comfortable with being joined to a congregation with a female lead Pastor.
Women As Teachers - not as Pastors of churches, which the Holy Spirit through Paul forbids. Women are desperately needed to address the following issues and others: *Over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce. There is a great need in the church to address this issue. *Children rebelling against parents *Singles ministry *Those who are grieving the loss of a husband or loss of a child *Addiction recovery *Handling family finances *Gender confusion *Abortion recovery *Hospice ministry
That first sentence is important. I completely agree. I'm currently reading a book titled "Hearing Her Voice: A Case for Women giving Sermons" by John Dickson. I would recommend this book as it critically analyses what Paul prohibited when he spoke about prohibiting women from "teaching". What about prophesying in public? What about leadership? What about leading prayer in public? There's various gifts but he spoke about "teaching". And again, I guess not everyone will agree on the issue but this book debates this issue in an amazing way. May we seek God regarding this issue. In the end, let those who have ears, hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church.
Wow, this was awesome. I just finished a paper on the very subject. I'm going to share this with my professor at TKU here in Tx. Please do this again regularly. It's needed.
Nope. That's not going to happen. Our sisters including my wife, daughter's and others sisters are needed to fulfill the mandate from Scripture as it relates to godly women. We need their help, just as Adam did. Man was given the spoken word "before" he started work in the garden, "prior" to receiving his wife afterwards. The Church is in the Kingdom of God not kingdom of I "think".
Good and interesting conversation. Personally, I have no issue with women preachers. My only problem is with biblically unorthodox, heterodox and heretical teaching, whether male or female. That being said, should women with biblically errant views be given platforms simply in an effort to dismantle "patriarchy"? Should we sacrifice orthodoxy for social change and advancement in the church? I think not...
I think not either, brother. Never discard orthodoxy (rightly dividing the Word) for the sake of social change and advancement in the church. How many marriages are breaking up today because sisters don't know how to relate to their husbands in a Christ- like manner? Over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce. What a shame and what a glaring need for women to teach women how to respect their husbands, for women to teach women how to raise their children, etc. There are many opportunities for women to use their skills to build up the Christian church - but not as a pastor and not as a teacher of men. Why? Because the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul said women cannot teach men in the church at 1 Timothy 2:12. That should settle the question, but if it doesn't there are excellent commentaries and books on marriage by godly, mature, knowledgeable and wise men and women who will give you excellent reasons why God does not permit women in the church to lead or teach men. Husbands and wives and their children are crying and drowning in anguish right now because of unfulfilling marriages. Highly educated women can show their sisters how to relate successfully with their husbands. If they have been trained Biblically and not indoctrinated in modern, socially liberal ideology. We need you, sisters. Look at the mother's with children sans father's at your church. God wants to use you the way He wants. It may not be the way modern Schools of Theology are teaching you. We need you , sisters. Badly. Ask for God to bless you with an epiphany on this issue. He will give it to you.
Pastor Wesley it ain't easy giving up our male domination attitudes, especially if we've had a father (like mine) who put it in us tough ... I was born in 1950 so I'm a old dinosaur 😁 who've had to learn some new tricks when it comes to women. Anyhow, you said so that you would not come across as being male dominant in your leading of this forum with our sisters, you would "let them" have the final say, and then you'd "let" your Assistant Pastor start.
My Pastor saw the calling on my wife and now she's a Minister. The denomination that we left theres not women ministers but they are call missionaries because they misinterpret scripture
The very first question in the Holy Scriptures was asked using sophistry, by the talking serpent (speaking spirit). His deceptive inquiry challenged the veracity of the spoken "Word" of God, as he cast aspersion upon the true nature of God, while misrepresenting the Biblical "boundary" of man's free will. Which by the way, was none of his business. Man's free will ends, in the exact same place where God's, "Thou shalt not begins"! Nevertheless, the crafty serpent submitted the question, along with his deceptive commentary on the spoken Word of God saying...... Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil. Gen. 3:1b,2-5 The second question was asked by the LORD God Himself in the cool (breeze) of the day, when He called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? Not much has changed since these two questions were first asked in the garden of Eden. They continue to be asked as from the beginning unto this present day. What does God's word say and the "interpretation" thereof? Man, where are you?
Yes sir and because of this original sin the world and everyone born after are born into sin. So this world and its inhabitants have been trusted into a quagmire of sinful behaviors and situations. But God!
We are using Caucasian theology , the Catholic umbrella of interpretation , definitely a problem in the teaching of scripture and the understanding of it... not putting our own twist changing the , scripture.... that's why we are having this platform now.... a woman can raise children in a fatherless house hold .....but cannot preach or run a church house..... is redicuelous 🤔🤔🤔 it's so sad that we were conditioned to disagree with each other for so long through different avenues , that unlearning it is harder than teaching it.... bring a chair to that table if not invited , then you might be sat behind someone , one of the problems with the black community 🤔🤔🤔 I like the fact what was said create your own table and being nice all the time really doesn't work with some people....ON POINT , and let's keep it REAL THE BLACK CHURCH does not exist without the black woman... she does the majority of the work through out the body ....that T.V screen brings forth a great picture but the working parts behind that screen are the most important pieces....🤔🤔🤔 I agree to keep order in whatever we do but tradition seems to be killing the church body ...... Tradition that is not even biblical and nothing to do with church growth......and looks are deceiving being so called attractive another reason the church body is breaking down.....go ye therefore and teach all nation's 🤔🤔🤔( male / female ) I like that check your circle....WOW a lot won't do that , research and FAITH TRADITIONS ......and young girls and teen need to know how important women are in scripture I make this a point and I'm a male... because you have a big name you have more FAITH 🤔🤔🤔 on POINT definitely a misperception , why am I invited , refer people which is important I would say some feel threatened but most are let's keep it real.... all conflict ain't bad conflict (FACTS) GREAT PLATFORM very down to Earth conversation a lot of great points... DR.BROWN...... AMAZING🤔🤔🤔 GREAT WISDOM..... GOD BLESS
My first question does this church believe that the bible is Gods word most will say yes. If then why not obey the bible and honor gods word. God will never contradict the bible. We cant make the bible sound the way we want it to sound. Yes women are powerful in the bible. The midwives were bold in the old Testament. Yes many women have done great things nobody can ever say different. But when it comes to the order in the church "husband of one wife" its clear. If your pastor is not married he shouldn't be pastoring. Women pastoring is not bible. But churches are in there emotions and want to make everyone happy. This is the world we live. Real Christians please obey the bible. Big churches dont mean better
Pastor Wesley before you asked your question to your female Assistant Pastor you said, "Be careful because I'm your Pastor". Were you just kidding with her, or was that a chauvanistic/patriarchal slip, or more from a spiritual authority component?
Being raised in a church where women weren’t able to preach and only speaking in front of the church never in the pulpit, it was amazing to see Women in Ministry moving forward. Dr. Wesley I applaud you on your willingness to take a stand despite what you may and may not have lost within Ministry. These women were absolutely Amazing to listen to. I pray as we grow in Christ many more women will preach the Gospel of Christ like never before. We are more than conquerors. Thank you all for your dedication . So inspiring.
I learned so much and this was a very informative platform. I applaud all of the women who are and have paved the road for me who was called to preach by God himself when I was in college 19 years old. Trust and believe I would have never called me to preach 😊! However m, I thank God for seeing and knowing me to use me as a vessel and ambassador to preach His Word! And I am so glad that God is not like man. I graciously accepted the call scared and all and will do what God said. ❤❤❤
Can I also say that I got a word when Dr. Brown said “ you don’t have to explain why you do it but that you do it.” Yesssss that spoke to me 🙏🏾
Awesome!! These women are God's way of showing us that women matter and we definitely have a welcomed seat at His table!! God bless!!
I shed tears for this conversation elicited recollections of deep pain inflicted as God manifested my calling in the beginning of ministry. Rev. Dr. Wesley I commend you for being an advocate actively engaged in leveling the playing field. The caliber, academic accomplishments coupled with the spiritual discernment of these exceptional women leaders blessed me and resonated within my spirit as I draw closer to God. Thank you for Pushing It!!
Wow, I didn’t think about how much our cultural understanding influences our understanding of scripture. “The God of Abraham and Sarah, Issac and Rebecca, etc.” 🤔 I like that approach/description.
Best one yet! I thank the panel for their vulnerability and authenticity! Awesome!
Refreshing! 👏🏾🙏🏿🙌🏽
The why is so important! It’s in the individual details that will invite a new look and change.
Thank You, Pastor Westley for sharing . "Really blessed me!" Xo
This was an excellent panel. I learned so much and thank God for these Women of God.
My female seminary professors advised that they never were allowed to preach but the men they "taught" and "trained" with less experience and knowledge were allowed to mount the pulpit before them. I appreciate this discussion. However, after discussion, there must be action and accountability. God Bless You All!
I love this series! Keep it coming.
Love this as a new Preacher, not young but new to preaching. I know this happens because often you see this in the eyes of men and women who stay in tradition.
The shirt
Right! Gotta cop that one. Spring is here too. What?!
This is great open dialogue regarding male/female position in the church. Who was the first to go back to tell the disciples that Jesus has Risen? A Woman!🙏🏼☝🏿👋🏽👏🏼
So that loose look at an event that has NOTHING to do with preaching is reason to disregard SCRIPTURE? Makes sense huh
Listen.... I was just trying to gain a better understanding on this.. praise God for this lesson! I love what Pastor Wesley is doing throughout these " can I push it" episodes.
That Zoom analogy. 🔥🔥🔥👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Awesome Lady Pastor's great conversation.
I am not not against Women preaching in the church; I actually support it, but this was more opinion and not WORD! Our opinion means little/ nothing against the WORD! If you are going to say women can preach, or can’t preach ( again I believe that they can And I have one or two verses to support that) but what about the WORD? Maybe I had the wrong thought for this! Complete and total remand honor to the ladies on the panel for this, but I had hoped for more WORD! I govern myself according to the WORD and had hope to get more WORD to support what I believe!!
Pastor this is a good heathy series regardless if ppl agree or not! Thanks from Mississippi, Pastor Jeff Bohanna, Grace Point Church, Olive Branch
Rev D we adore and miss you!!
A strange phenomenon in the Black church that marginalizes women by denying their calls to preach and lead in the church is the fact that many of the men and women who support this madness were raised single-handedly by women (or a group of women) - because that's the narrative of many Black homes. How can you acknowledge the gift of your mother's ministry to you and then state that women should have no authority in the church? It baffles me.
Refreshing and much needed conversation! So much truth told!
God created Eve to help Adam in all he do. Both hv to abide by his laws and not their own hidden agendas of being a God over the other
Great series
This is an excellent conversation. I am not called into Ministry yet this is very relevant in both my private life as well as in my professional life in the corporate world. ASBC is truly relevant; thank you for creating this space Pastor Wesley!
This was an awesome dialogue I really enjoyed this conversation and think this topic is relevant to the church structure. I would also add that one of my experience seeing a woman preaching, is that a woman comes to the pulpit through her husband as the lead pastor. Through her husband is how she is able to get on the pulpit and give the word. Outside of that she would not have direct access to preaching.
I got saved at 29 out of a Jehovah's Witnesses back
ground where there were no female overseers, and whenever females were on the platform, or even read scripture out loud in the congregation, they wore head coverings ... So for a long time after I got saved I was very female Pastor averse to the point of where I would walk out of a church if a woman preached, and I vowed I'd never belong to a church with a female lead Pastor.
Over the years I've softened, and while from my understanding of scripture I still don't believe there should be female Pastors I no longer will walk out, as I leave that situation to be between the sister and the Lord.
So as long as the sister Pastor brings the Word I'm good, but I'm still not comfortable with being joined to a congregation with a female lead Pastor.
So why weren’t the women who are learned and lettered who totally disagree invited? Just a thought
mcadoojr Because HJW is pushing an agenda under the guise of openness. Discerning bible believers will not take the womanism bait.
Great observation, the same reason liberal churches don't invite men such as myself to preach or their congregations to pastor.
Traditionalism is steep in all of the church
@Gloria Mccoy, thanks for your comment on another video it's what brought me to this timely and awesome video, Thanks Sis.
Is there a list of the Biblical scholars/exegetes Dr. Fry Brown mentioned? I couldn’t completely catch all the names. (~ 15 min)
Yes we need to have an honest conversation. It’s time to change.
I need that shirt!!
Women As Teachers - not as Pastors of churches, which the Holy Spirit through Paul forbids. Women are desperately needed to address the following issues and others:
*Over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce. There is a great need in the church to address this issue.
*Children rebelling against parents
*Singles ministry
*Those who are grieving the loss of a husband or loss of a child
*Addiction recovery
*Handling family finances
*Gender confusion
*Abortion recovery
*Hospice ministry
That first sentence is important. I completely agree. I'm currently reading a book titled "Hearing Her Voice: A Case for Women giving Sermons" by John Dickson. I would recommend this book as it critically analyses what Paul prohibited when he spoke about prohibiting women from "teaching".
What about prophesying in public? What about leadership? What about leading prayer in public? There's various gifts but he spoke about "teaching".
And again, I guess not everyone will agree on the issue but this book debates this issue in an amazing way. May we seek God regarding this issue. In the end, let those who have ears, hear what the Spirit is saying to the Church.
Wow, this was awesome. I just finished a paper on the very subject. I'm going to share this with my professor at TKU here in Tx. Please do this again regularly. It's needed.
C T much needed and very therapeutic. Thank you!
Should we be apologizing for Male leadership?
Nope. That's not going to happen.
Our sisters including my wife, daughter's and others sisters are needed to fulfill the mandate from Scripture as it relates to godly women.
We need their help, just as Adam did.
Man was given the spoken word "before" he started work in the garden, "prior" to receiving his wife afterwards.
The Church is in the Kingdom of God not kingdom of I "think".
Good and interesting conversation. Personally, I have no issue with women preachers. My only problem is with biblically unorthodox, heterodox and heretical teaching, whether male or female.
That being said, should women with biblically errant views be given platforms simply in an effort to dismantle "patriarchy"? Should we sacrifice orthodoxy for social change and advancement in the church?
I think not...
I think not either, brother. Never discard orthodoxy (rightly dividing the Word) for the sake of social change and advancement in the church.
How many marriages are breaking up today because sisters don't know how to relate to their husbands in a Christ- like manner? Over 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce. What a shame and what a glaring need for women to teach women how to respect their husbands, for women to teach women how to raise their children, etc. There are many opportunities for women to use their skills to build up the Christian church - but not as a pastor and not as a teacher of men. Why? Because the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul said women cannot teach men in the church at 1 Timothy 2:12. That should settle the question, but if it doesn't there are excellent commentaries and books on marriage by godly, mature, knowledgeable and wise men and women who will give you excellent reasons why God does not permit women in the church to lead or teach men. Husbands and wives and their children are crying and drowning in anguish right now because of unfulfilling marriages. Highly educated women can show their sisters how to relate successfully with their husbands. If they have been trained Biblically and not indoctrinated in modern, socially liberal ideology. We need you, sisters. Look at the mother's with children sans father's at your church. God wants to use you the way He wants. It may not be the way modern Schools of Theology are teaching you. We need you , sisters. Badly. Ask for God to bless you with an epiphany on this issue. He will give it to you.
@@josephmiller1224 Jesus kicked orthodoxy used by the Pharisees to the side to get them to see the difference between love and the law.
Pastor Wesley it ain't easy giving up our male domination attitudes, especially if we've had a father (like mine) who put it in us tough ... I was born in 1950 so I'm a old dinosaur 😁 who've had to learn some new tricks when it comes to women.
Anyhow, you said so that you would not come across as being male dominant in your leading of this forum with our sisters, you would "let them" have the final say, and then you'd "let" your Assistant Pastor start.
My Pastor saw the calling on my wife and now she's a Minister. The denomination that we left theres not women ministers but they are call missionaries because they misinterpret scripture
Awesome conversation!
Where can we get that shirt
The very first question in the Holy Scriptures was asked using sophistry, by the talking serpent (speaking spirit). His deceptive inquiry challenged the veracity of the spoken "Word" of God, as he cast aspersion upon the true nature of God, while misrepresenting the Biblical "boundary" of man's free will. Which by the way, was none of his business.
Man's free will ends, in the exact same place where God's, "Thou shalt not begins"!
Nevertheless, the crafty serpent submitted the question, along with his deceptive commentary on the spoken Word of God saying......
Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil. Gen. 3:1b,2-5
The second question was asked by the LORD God Himself in the cool (breeze) of the day, when He called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Not much has changed since these two questions were first asked in the garden of Eden. They continue to be asked as from the beginning unto this present day.
What does God's word say and the "interpretation" thereof?
Man, where are you?
Yes sir and because of this original sin the world and everyone born after are born into sin. So this world and its inhabitants have been trusted into a quagmire of sinful behaviors and situations. But God!
We are using Caucasian theology
, the Catholic umbrella of interpretation , definitely a problem in the teaching of scripture and the understanding of it... not putting our own twist changing the , scripture.... that's why we are having
this platform now.... a woman can
raise children in a fatherless house hold .....but cannot preach or run a church house..... is redicuelous
🤔🤔🤔 it's so sad that we were conditioned to disagree with each other for so long through different avenues , that unlearning it is harder than teaching it.... bring a chair to that table if not invited , then you might be sat behind someone , one of the problems with the black community 🤔🤔🤔
I like the fact what was said create your own table and being nice all the time really doesn't work with some people....ON POINT , and let's keep it REAL THE BLACK CHURCH does not exist without the black woman...
she does the majority of the work through out the body ....that T.V screen brings forth a great picture but the working parts behind that screen are the most important pieces....🤔🤔🤔 I agree to keep order in whatever we do but tradition seems to be killing the church body
...... Tradition that is not even biblical
and nothing to do with church growth......and looks are deceiving
being so called attractive another reason the church body is breaking down.....go ye therefore and teach all nation's 🤔🤔🤔( male / female )
I like that check your circle....WOW
a lot won't do that , research and FAITH TRADITIONS ......and young girls and teen need to know how important women are in scripture I make this a point and I'm a male...
because you have a big name you have more FAITH 🤔🤔🤔 on POINT
definitely a misperception , why am I invited , refer people which is important I would say some feel threatened but most are let's keep it real.... all conflict ain't bad conflict (FACTS) GREAT PLATFORM very down to Earth conversation a lot of great points...
DR.BROWN...... AMAZING🤔🤔🤔
GREAT WISDOM..... GOD BLESS
Unconscious bias training would be helpful because many times male privilege and patriarchy is not even recognized.
My first question does this church believe that the bible is Gods word most will say yes. If then why not obey the bible and honor gods word. God will never contradict the bible. We cant make the bible sound the way we want it to sound. Yes women are powerful in the bible. The midwives were bold in the old Testament. Yes many women have done great things nobody can ever say different. But when it comes to the order in the church "husband of one wife" its clear. If your pastor is not married he shouldn't be pastoring. Women pastoring is not bible. But churches are in there emotions and want to make everyone happy. This is the world we live. Real Christians please obey the bible. Big churches dont mean better
*Next topic* : Are blacks the true Israelites of Scripture?
I think you already know what his answer is.
And your point is????
And your point is?????
Pastor Wesley before you asked your question to your female Assistant Pastor you said, "Be careful because I'm your Pastor".
Were you just kidding with her, or was that a chauvanistic/patriarchal slip, or more from a spiritual authority component?
That Zoom analogy. 🔥🔥🔥👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾