Can I stop it overheating?? - Ferrari engined Alfa 105 Alfarrari build part 212
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- Опубликовано: 16 мар 2024
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I feel Jeff needs to be way more popular than he is. Watching his work and seeing his attention to detail is inspiring
Agreed
Very inspiring!
I think he should drop the intro maybe, i think it makes people skip his videos because it’s not straight to the point. Maybe a summaru of What he did last time would be better. Like matt armstrong does
I think he might need to hire someone that understands RUclips marketing a little better
Jeff, I am a mechanical engineer and there is no such thing as “too fast” or “too big” of a radiator. The convective heat transfer function (transfer of heat from a surface into a fluid, liquid or gas) has a velocity variable, the higher the velocity, the higher the heat transfer. Think about sticking your hand out the window of a moving car, the faster the car goes, the colder your hand feels, even with a constant outside temperature. That’s because the faster moving air is removing more energy from the surface of your hand.
As far as the size of the radiator, convective heat transfer is also dependent upon the surface are that the fluid is in contact with.
That was my (vague) understanding too - I have heard the "too fast" thing before but I wasn't that convinced. But this mod has worked - any ideas why? I'm lost on this one 🤷♀
As I understand it, it doesn't cool the motor very much if the whole sistem is roughly the same temperature. He basicaly made a bigger difference between inlet and outlet temperature so water can absorb more heat from the motor. At first I couldn't believe what he was saying but we've seen the results.
Laminar flow can allow the hot water to pass over the cooler water. So water speed is an issue .
Mechanical engineer or not, you literally just saw it work.
Also an engineer here (automotive, oem). Unless you're getting cavitation in the radiator (unlikely), lower coolant ∆t means better cooling.
To improve cooling you need to move more air across the radiator, more coolant through it or improve the heat transfer efficiency with a different core design.
Which one of those depends on the problem. If your coolant out is more than 5c lower than coolant in, you need more flow. I would start with taking out the flow restrictor.
The Alferrari sounded surprisingly like a four cylinder!
It’s a flat plane crank. So it runs like two four cylinders phased together. The big American sounding V8’s are cross plane.
He also plated between the xpipe so the banks no longer merge
That was my first thought, too.
@@neilmchardy9061 - Correct.
Would be interesting looking at the cooling system through an infra-red camera.
Glad you're getting the issues sorted bit by bit, Jeff. This is your forever car, so you literally have forever to sort it out fully. Lol
Hope the Yaris rack fixes the steering. Cheers, mate
I had cooling issues since the day of the build. Your success sorting it out motivated me to get back to garage. Thanks man!
For a minute I wondered why you painted the rad before the pressure test, then I remembered "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing twice". 🤣
Salut Jeff, toujours un grand plaisir de voir ton sourire après la résolution d’un problème, tu es un exemple de persévérance, bravo 👏👏👏👏👏
The amount of turns lock-to-lock takes me back pretty well most (Australian) cars from the sixties and seventies. Always fun trying to catch a sudden slide......
Nice work Jeff, I think what you did was making more use of the radiator surface by directing the coolant through the whole radiator instead of the shortest route through the radiator avoiding dead flow areas.
Agreed, I suspect the larger part of the coolant was taking the path of least resistance down one side across the bottom and out. Checking the temperature at different parts of the radiator might have revealed relative hot/cold spots.
It's so close! And Binky is teasing a return, just the now! You can do this Jeff! Just because Nik has that "Big Bracket Maker" trophy isn't going to scare you! Mrs. Jeff, your Italian gets more original every time!
I must have watched every single Binky video after like the first couple if that... my God that took some time. Then they just stopped, went a different direction. Are they back on Binky now?
Im finishing watching this now, back in the day this is exactly what I did when building radiators with side tanks, would have said that Sunday, but I'm behind lol.
It is vitally important to look at our flaps.
My Sunbeam Tiger was notorious for overheating and living in Arizona where summer temps can be over 115F i did something different to fix it. I added an extra heater core under the car. It has fins to run the air through it and an auxiliary fan for stop and go. Works like a charm. Used flexible copper tubing to run the coolant.
I'm surprised that plate arrived so quickly! Cheers all!!
Thanks mate :D
FANtastic job, Jeff
What a difference a month (and a few small wins) make for some relief of the Psyche!
Awesome work Jeff!!
Awesome result. Well done.
Bloody well done Jeff, cheers mate
Nice progress again, well done Jeff!
3.5 turns lock to lock sounds about right for a 60/70s car, but without power steering.
On a side note, I had a bit of trouble getting used to an Escort quick rack back in the rallying days, eventually got there though.
this is awesome, Jeff. Well done!
So admire your determination
Fantastic results. Keep up the great work.
Looking forward to the steering fix.
Fantastic news. Jeff!
Very happy for you Jeff, great win with the cooling !
Nice job! looking real promising.
I like both your solutions to the overheating ✊
Patience and Persistance !!! 👍👍👍
Great work Jeff, glad you sorted the overheating problem.
Hello Jeff, glad you had a good time in Canberra. Thanks for sharing a flavour of the event with us. It was exciting to see you driving your Alfarrari on the circuit. I'm eager to see/hear more of her.
Very glad you appear to have cured the cooling issues.
Great job mate, well done.
Glad you were able to solve both the noise and cooling problem, and great to see you driving on a track 👍🏻🙂
Looks great on the track Jeff👌
Impressive how you deal with issues. Great content.
Love the persistence to sort things out, the rad mod is really good! from a strangely warm England.
Great work on the cooling, would never have thought of that! Couldn’t get my head around it at first but it work! Well done 👍
So cool to see and hear the Alfarrari on the track. Even if you couldn't fully enjoy it yet.
YEA BUDDY! Congratulations on getting the cooling sorted! Excellent problem solving and execution! Love the build. 😀👍👍
Ciao from Italy, keep up the good work, buon lavoro! 🇮🇹
Excellent! Well done
Great solution to the overheating problem…I would never have thought of that… well done😁👍
Hi Jeff, the best moment of the video is when you are happy with the cooling.👍
So cool to see you go from thinking all was lost to being able to run it on the track and properly drive it a bit anyway.
Great video! Congrats on sorting! Mahalo for sharing! : )
Your excitment is so damn infectious..... gets me motivated to fo work on my Z when im having a issues with the restoration. Keep these videos coming!!!
Proud of you buddy. Great thinking on the coolant velocity and lack of heat exchange.
Nice , such a great feeling when you sort out a anoying issue after you had a project car running for a bit.
Great fix Jeff, almost done now.
The triple pass radiator trick worked great. What a relief that must be! And such a fairly simple mod even. Plus the better fan to boot. That's awesome.
Sounds great too, least to me. Looking forward to seeing a steering fix. That sounds like will be more complex, things being so tight in there.
Good save on the radiator. I have a triple pass radiator in my classic American muscle car and it made a tremendous difference in keeping the engine cool.
Great idea with the radiator Jeff
I’ll put that one in the memory banks for my build.
Keep up the great work brother
Great fix. So pleased for you 😂
Your car sounds great!!
Thats awesome! Way to go! No just fix the steering and back to detail work!!! Great job!
Hi Jeff. Great job, solving the noise and cooling issues. Prior to the silenser install, the sound of it striked me like a real healthy Alfa from way back when. Not bad, but now the yellow V8 has now become a Much better V8 sound from the exhaust pipes... Love it.. Have a great sunday.. Greetings from Denmark🤩
Ciao Jeff, sei un mago!!
La modifica al radiatore è stata un'eccellente idea.
She sounds awesome, Jeff and she'll be sweet once all the issues are sorted. Cheers. Leigh.
Mrs Jeff is very pleasant to the eye 🤔
Nice going, glad the triple pass worked out
Made all the difference :D
3:27 nice you got to have a drive with the others Jeff!
👍💪✌
Nicely done Jeff!👌 Glad you were able to sort out both those issues… cooling especially! Great to have that solved finally, looking forward to seeing the steering addressed next time 😎💪
Thanks mate. Already working on plans for that :D
Great work Jeff, definitely chipping away. I'm definitely interested in how you solve the steering delay issue. Many thanks.
When i built my Austin Healey special I though it had direct steering. My Alfa 916 Spider has even more direct steering and the rack is small. It is power assisted but some of the Alfa models out there being wrecked might be a thought. Now the logic behind the cooling is very impressive. You must be really thrilled to have thought your way around that one. Well done. Finally the exhaust sounds really great at the moment. They sound different outside the car under load anyway. Full marks.
I was worried it might overheat in Houston when I drive it. Beautiful!
Jeff I used to work at Aussie desert cooler. I noticed the block off plates you welded in are in the wrong spots. The block off plate under the radiator cap should be higher than the plate on the other tank. Draw it on paper to make sense. The top section is not flowing theway you think.
I don't think the cap makes a difference, the higher block-off place is at the inlet side, the lower plate is at the outlet side, this ensures that the coolant has to travel through the radiator completely from inlet to outlet.
The inlet is on the opposite side of the cap in this case. Cap is probably in the wrong spot, but I am not overly concerned.
I looked at it again and i was wrong..keep up the good work. I'll shut up now..lol
Great result 👍🇬🇧🙂
Well done 👍
That was a very clever solution for the radiator. Seems so logical in hindsight, makes you wonder why that's not standard on a radiator of that size.
I converted my 1966 Alfa 2600 using a rack and pinion from a Subaru Liberty and had the same problem of "slowness". I redrilled the steering arms to gain a shorter throw but because of subframe clearance prolems, I had to make space to shift the rack aft to prevent reverse accerman and lower the lower whishbones to prevent bump steer but it now works. Good luck, I'll be watching with interest.
Job well done.
Rad mods are like a v12 jaguar rad they have two top hoses coolant then zig zags through the rad then out of one bottom hose good result
Am also glad you're quieting it down a bit, it is a discomfort on longer hauls, just like your 911, a tad too loud.
Great news on the cooling, that car sounds very "Alfa" for a V8 Ferrari, so well done!
Some would say your radiator modification is FANtastic. Haha, see what I did there! Good to see you making headway on all the little issues. Love this build. Now go back to DATSUN! WE WANT A 510! Ok, maybe just me 😂
Well done with the cooling although the physics understanding is not correct. If you remove the restrictor to coolant flow it will probably work even better. Another commenter mentioned a very relevant point that previously the water flow was inadequate in parts of the radiator, chiefly taking the easiest path. Just a random point, in old BMC Minis people would remove thermostats to try to improve cooling, the opposite would happen due to turbulence created near the pump actually impeding the flow. A few very good points here in your comment section. A great project, admire the way you find a problem and keep the motivation going to sort it out. The car still sounds remarkably Italian!
Hello there Jeff, you're probably the greatest fabricator that I've seen. Nothing like that here in the states, except for autotopiala..
Great episode thanks Jeff. Great news on the cooling!!!!! Can you set up a GoPro behind the rad to see if your flaps work at speed? 😉
Great work and nicely done Jeff. The real test for the cooling will be stop and go traffic in the summer heat. I still think you need louvers in the hood to let escape heat (heat rise). Keep up the good work & Godspeed from California 🇺🇸
I found that also adding oil cooler with fan cools engine temp. Also I had a spal fan on an enclosed radiator by race radiators, this kept my big hp problem motors cool on the street upto 38c Melb weather
It's interesting to go through the comments here regarding the over-heating problem - so many different takes on what works or should work. Intuitively, what you've done makes sense, so hopefully you've got the problem licked now. Exhaust seems noticably quieter. Shame that the tone isn't as melodious as the original Ferrari, but it's still a beast man!
Well done! The car will completely transform once the steering is corrected 👍🏻 I think you’ll need a drive by road test for sound, exhaust sounds different when you’re not in the car. I do agree with the earlier comment about staying on the Alferrari from a viewers perspective, but I also understand what “taking a break” is and you needed that. Always great content though Jeff! G’day Mate 👋🏻
Hi Jeff, if I could comment about your exhaust note “problem”, I don’t think the issue is your headers, your main pipes are too large in diameter, which creates the low pitch droning sound. In my experience a smaller diameter pipe raises the pitch, which will make it sound sharper and crisper. It’s not a race engine, and you’re not going to be using 7000-8000 revs very often, so you don’t need the flow of such large pipes. For a 3.6 litre V8 with about 400 bhp, your exhaust pipes only need to be 2.25 or 2.5” diameter each (max). You’ll flatten out the power and torque curves without losing much if any top end.
Otherwise, love your work, keep going!!
Cheers
Bill
They are 2.5". It is less the tone that I am missing, it is the alignment of the pulses if that makes sense. It doesn't sound Ferrari, like even a loud Challenge car sounds.
I am a You tube armchair enjuneer and I say if it works it works. Nice job Jeff!!
Wow! That's amazing with the cooling working. That wasn't at all on my radar , that the radiator was sort of too big and letting the coolant pass through too quickly. But I am not a mechanical engineer, am I 😁😉. All these things engineers engineer into cars to make them all work optimally. 🙂
1:30 - and _smell_ them!
Re. the mufflers - they'll be quiet to start with but get louder and louder as they carbon up, ending up as practically straight-through - I had one on my Yamaha Fazer back in the day, lovely sound to start with but after less than 1000m I was getting old-fashioned looks from the plod.
Hi mate I built a 81 tg Gemini with a commodore vr v6 3.8 l in it and had the same problem with getting hot I’m a refrigeration Machanic by trade so what I did was bought a heat exchanger 60 plates and tee it into my hoses and it works a treat it dropped my temperature by 11 degrees I’m so happy with it now as before on a 30 degree day the temperature would skyrocket now on a 30 degree day it sits at 82 degrees and the fan cycles on and off 👍👍have a look into it might be good for your car
Great work Jeff. You need to know the original spec for that engine cooling properties, FW-pump capacity and flowrate, radiator flow characteristics and capacity, this is not rocket science but it will save you from lots of trouble. Can highly recommend Setrab AB radiators. Also coolant from Evanscoolants, classic cool 180. All the best and good luck.
Great news on figuring out the cooling system!
It calls for an occasion were you could make the statement to Mrs. Jeff that I occasionally say to my wife “See, I’m not just pretty “😀😀 I laugh. See roles her eyes, smiles.
Hi Jeff, are you sure that the removal of the thermostat isn’t your problem? Depending on its design it can have a big effect on how the coolant flows around the engine and hence how it cools. I admire your perseverance - keep going!
Electric water pump doesn't require a thermostat
It does on some engines. Some bypass thermostats help distribute the coolant flow proportionalty between the head and the block. If not fitted it can overcool or let overheat either the block or the heads.
Well done on sorting the cooling. I would never have tried that, it goes against everything I know (or thought I did!!). I would have removed the restrictor to increase flow rate.
You’ve actually reduced the total cooling capacity of the rad. As the water is now cooler coming out of the rad, the avg temp of the water in it is lower, so the temp diff between air and rad temp is lower, reducing the cooling capacity. I guess the engine needs that cooler water to give up its heat effectively but it doesn’t explain why it was ok under load - with the leccy pump flow rate is (or should be) independent of engine speed.
I’ve always fitted the smallest rad I can get away with so guess I’ve never come across (or had to deal with!) issues having one too big!!!
Well done though, I’m glad you sorted it.and keep up the good work. Cheers.
I have found water weter aditive helps as it reduces vapour bubbles on the metal surface which impedes heat transfer.
hi Jeff love the car I owned a alfa 156 a few years ago and that car had amazing steering maybe an option
EDIT: Stoked the radiator mod’s helped! As others have theorised, I think part of the heat issue may be the air not being able to escape the engine bay. I think the best way to solve it without ruining the looks would be to lift the rear bonnet latches up and down on some kind of actuators (have it controlled by bay temp). Should be pretty easy to test before committing by making some little extensions.
Your best bet for a choice of steering ratio is to look at RWD original Escort racks. Because of the rally heritage you can buy a selection of racks in 2.9, 2.4 or 2.2 turns lock to lock. You need to check carefully for bump steer, the height of the rack and the length of the tie rods will be critical, having changed to a rack from a steering box. Rally Design is one supplier with a good selection in both LHD and RHD.
For reference the Toyota MR2 Spyder has a factory quick rack. I can't remember the turns lock to look but it isn't many. Just another may be useful piece of information.
Having overheating problems myself, I was going to suggest a dual pass radiator
Good stuff
Two wins in the one episode, well deserved I'd say!
For the steering if you are open to a powered option, consider Ez Electric Power Steering. I have used it for my classic car and its works really well.
Already has power steering, well covered in videos ;)
Awesome! For more heat rejection, could ceramic coat headers to channel heat out and cool underhood temps.
Already has..