Blayne was particularly on fire on this episode. Or at least he defined things in a way that closely reflects my own outlook, which means he must be right, yes?
Thy Catafalque should be mentioned somewhere about avant-garde metal IMO. Its roots were also in the BM but since then it had elements of such a wide variety of genres (folk, electronic music, prog, jazz, doom to name a few).
I love Lock Horns and the redux is very very welcome, especially in COVID lockdown! But the one thing I would suggest as an improvement for next season is your seating configuration! Popular talk shows as I'm sure you know sit the host off to one side and the guests on the other, which makes it easier to talk to and include everyone in the conversation without giving the host whiplash (pun intended!). I think if Sam wasn't already a seasoned metalhead he'd need a neckbrace in future lol. But other than that I think everything is perfect, especially content wise, keep it up! \m/
Chris Bruni is a God... like 90% of all the awesome metal music released in the past 20 years got its start on Profound Lore. It's awesome to see his label find more success.
Best episode so far. My question is though: at what point does a microgenre become a sub genre? Is it based on the number of bands playing in the styles, how long it's been around, how big the microgenre has gotten within the wider world of metal?
I think influence would have to be key factor for defining genres. Which is difficult to measure with mircogenre for obvious reasons. It’s hard to predict if a certain group of bands within a microgenre will be cited as influences for bands 10 years down the road.
That is how I perceive it. I always considered a micro genre as something that are basically one-offs, few bands at best but never grow anything bigger. This is why I was against calling DSBM a micro genre because it has beem around pretty much as long as Black Metal itself and has many, many bands.
I think a microgenre is like when your genre is so laser focused on a specific element. Like pornogrind, or cybergrind, or even like war metal. It may be a bit over simplified, but I think Goniloc's video on War Metal kind of explains that, or in how Finn McKenty mentioned being confused about D-Beat, because it's essentially a genre of bands trying their best to emulate Discharge the best.
Depressive/suicidal black metal, slam, drone-doom and powerviolence seem like the most obvious inclusions not to be explored in this episode (which was, by the way, absolutely exceptional), although the first was at least mentioned. These styles are extremely niche for certain, and are often adjacent to other fairly specific styles within their broader genres and subgenres, but they are also incredibly distinctive and fairly diverse.
Locohappy Powerviolence is relevant enough to early deathcore and mathcore and modern sludge, crust, grindcore and deathgrind to be inextricable from the metal conversation. Also, despite the insistence of certain PV acts that they had no connection to metal, nosireebob, particularly on the fastcore side of things, those weird sudden tempo changes and slower breakdowns have a lot more in common with Autopsy, Melvins or Saint Vitus than Minor Threat or DRI. Which is not to say it isn't punk in spirit and culture, but the sound definitely took cues from metal in a big way, *especially* Man is the Bastard.
ConvincingPeople,Could Ethnic Metal be a Microgenre? Bands that are so proud of their ethnicity that they become the Advertisements for their different heritages
It's hard to talk about or describe music without genres. Try to describe how a record sounds to someone who hasn't heard of the band without mentioning a genre or a similar sounding band, pretty hard. If you say it's funeral doom, norse core, black gaze, death n roll or whatever, people immediately get a picture of how it sounds. The more narrow micro genre, the better description
This is a tricky one... The lack of rules has lead us to this. But at the same time, the lack of rules is what makes metal so great. Details, over complication and mix and matching is how metal stays alive... I guess. Personally I love everything death metal and black metal 🤘 Also remember that metal was considered to be “extreme music” so it makes sense that everything around it is also extreme like the labeling.
Granted I'm only 11 mins in, and this point could be addressed later in the show; I'd dare say that, with all the expanding variation within metal, that metal itself has grown from being a subgenres of rock n roll into a genre on it's own.
Yeah that’s why we need to tell people we don’t listen to fucking rock. If anything we have always been a jazz sub-genre any with blues/rock influences. Because really Black Sabbath is just a swing band with a virtuoso rock/jazz guitarist with a blues singer. Remember they were a Jazz band called Earth before, Ozzy wrote the lyrics to Black Sabbath and the rest they say is history. Hell the other 2 original metal bands Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin we’re heavily influenced by jazz more than rock/blues any how.
Classification of genres basically is a specification of the style of a metal band plays. Its basically an evolution of music and these micro genres will soon grow to its own metal genre.
Unrelated to my previous comment: This discussion has probably had the highest concentration of shoutouts to my favourite bands and styles on a Lock Horns episode. Extensive discussion of Portal and the cavernous death metal wave with nods and shouts to Shining, Bell Witch, Teitanblood, Panopticon, Oranssi Pazuzu, Blasphemy, Wormphlegm, Deathspell Omega, Igorrr, Ved Buens Ende, Leviathan, Wormlust, even freakin' Xysma of all bands! And Sam did mention DSBM even if they didn't specifically bring up any examples with the very debatable exception of Leviathan-although a digression on the likes of the infinitely freaky Todesstoß or the absolutely etherial Sadness would have been great, as would nods to the god-tier implacable strangeness of Jute Gyte and the deeply peculiar I, Voidhanger label in the section on experimental/avant-garde black metal. Overall, though, I found this unintentional pandering almost as pleasing as the discussion itself.
Not only in Metal, in music in general artists, intermediaries and public like to distinguish themselves and be set apart in order to be recognized, that's why there's such a proliferation of genres, subgenres and microgenres. Some catch on: Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Grindcore, etc... while others don't seem to stick (besides Macabre, who plays Murder Metal?). I find this subject tremendously fascinating from a personal and academic viewpoint, most of my work in Extreme Music has to do with it.
Easy for me to remember, at least the second word. There was a guy in the next town over that went to my high school. He changed his name to Pazuzu Algarad. He started kind of a cult, started dismembering animals, and killed several people and buried them in his yard. Hard to forget that name Haha. They actually did a docuseries on him on Vice.
Not just floating around for years, funeral doom is very well established over 25 years ago and could have it's own show to talk about all the bands like Funeral, Esoteric etc! I feel a microgenre would be slam, black n roll, pornogrind, progressive metalcore, grisly death
The funny thing about 'progressive metalcore' is that 'real' metalcore bands were far more progressive than any of the bands that are labelled as such.
Guys, you're missing: Industrial black metal, Industrial death metal, Goregrind, Groovy goregrind, Cybergrind, Grindnoise, Gorenoise and Noisecore (the original, not that term stolen by Today is the Day).
Sub-genres are a guideline, not a strict rule set. It absolutely helps people find more music that they enjoy. Nothing wrong with them at all. I love BM, and particularly, atmospheric BM, so I enjoy finding groups who incorporate keys and other sounds, but not with an overwhelming sound to them like “symphonic” BM leans into. Some are more pronounced in their songs, but on the whole, using the term atmospheric instead of st phonic, brings me to them.
The key thing here is the general genres it is needed. While Stratovarius, Morbid Angel, Solitude Aeturnus and Darkthrone are all metal, all 4 are VASTLY different from each other. Then there's the sub genres, which are good as well, especially when it's combining genres (death-doom, blackened thrash, etc.). But to the point, yes, even microgeneres are useful due to the vastness of the metal scene as a whole.
Is Grand Declaration of War by Mayhem considered an avant-garde black metal album? I mean, it has a lot of experimentation in it... And I love this fucking album, especially In The Lies Where Upon You Lay and Completion In Science Of Agony, a very underrated album in my opinion
As a 43 year old American who grew up and lives in Germany I got a good insight into how Metal evolved. Back in the days you had as an example Speed Metal (Helloween, Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian etc.) which turned in time to Melodic Speed and you had for example Power Metal (Morgana Lefay, Hammerfall, Savatage etc.) ... but holy fuck what happened? Now there isn't anymore Melodic Speed. Now all Melodic Speed Metal Bands are categorized as Power Metal where as Savatage, Morgana Lefay etc. seem to also be dealt into that mix ... What a mess ...
P.W. Robinson I hear you. I find it both greatly amusing and annoying with which fervor metal fans these days debate genre classifications of bands. The only other group of people I know that have the same heated arguments are accountants and controllers.When I bought „Keeper of the Seven Keys“ when it came out, Helloween were just Metal. I cannot for the life of me remember hearing the term „Power Metal“ until the early 2000s.
Lock Horn's redux discussions have a lot of potential and the discussions are usually interesting but the outcome is usually very disappointing. The way you try to define your topic is often ludicrous and either biased or rely too much on "fans" who "preach for their own parish". The topic of this session is micro-genres. Micro comes from ancient greek and mean extremely small, referring often to something invisible to the naked eye (i feel arrogant to write the definition but I need it to make my point). So based on this definition we could say that micro-genre is a genre that is so specific, so obscure or so unknown that only a handful of bands can be categorized as such, this is a genre that is so small that you can't notice it or think of it when you look at Metal as a wider genre, and you notice this genre only by digging deep into the subgenres of Metal (It might be a sub genre within a sub genre for exemple). Therefore Djent CANNOT be categorized as a micro-genre considering the amount of bands that are now playing Djent and the success of the genre over the last (2) decade(s). A lot of people will be mad about reading it, but accept that Djent is a broader genre along Heavy Metal, Thrash, Death or Black Metal nowadays, or maybe we could consider it a sub-genre of Progressive Metal. But definitely not a micro-genre. The same could apply to Post Black Metal which became a quite big subgenre over the last decade, the number of Post Black Metal bands has boomed over the last 10 years, therefore Post Black is a subgenre of Black Metal not a micro-genre. I think we need to accept now that Rock is a broad umbrella of musical families (Pop Rock, Punk, Rock N' Roll, Metal, etc...) and not just a genre or style. And each families has genres, for example Metal has Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Doom Metal, ... Each genre has subgenres: Death Metal has Brutal Death, Technical Death, Slam, ... And then subgenres have bands playing a subgenre in a very specific or personal way, leading to the micro-genres: Thrash Metal has Tribal Thrash as subgenre, and within the Tribal Thrash subgenre a band like Alien Weaponry created the Maori-Metal for example and this would be our micro-genre. Or Rings of Saturn created the Aliencore within the Tech-Death/Deathcore sub-genre, and Aliencore would be the micro-genre in that case. Of course this is just my opinion I am not saying I am 100% right, but at least if you want to come up with a definition of something, then having a bit of "scientific" or analytical rigour would make your videos much more structured and give you more credibility. In the end when I see the outcome of the video I get the bitter impression that you guys don't know what you are talking about (I am not saying that you don't know what you are talking about, but that you give this impression). Sorry for my long and very nerdy comment btw. Otherwise your guests are always very interesting people, I really liked the one with Abigail William's guitarist and Chris from Profound Lore seems to be a very nice guy (that contrasts a lot with the extreme music promoted by his label).
I agree. I had the same feeling with the discussion around album covers and logos. It seems like a bar conversation and the participants put too much personal opinion.
I agree. They often come off as condescending/elitist instead of staying more neutral to all sub genres of metal. I would like to hear less biased opinions given on the topic.
Would have been cool to see Akercocke (also Voices), and A Forest of Stars brought into this conversation....amazingly eclectic, stylistically diverse (ie. hard to pigeon-hole), excellent metal. As always of course, great job all the way @BANGERTV, love what you do.
The Band is mainly "Alternative Doom Metal" & "Doomgrind" with a hint of Melodic Metalcore, but most of the songs are instrumental. Joezer Moreira Leite
When I still had the time to make music, I considered what I did cybergrind, and that's a genre that had a moment in the mid-2000's that really felt big. It's such a weird genre, blending grind with chiptune, dance, and industrial, that it was never going to be mainstream. But BAYI, The Leviathan's Mandible, Kindergarten Hazing Ritual, Breakdancing Ronald Reagan (before they moved into a noise project), and The Almighty Spork Wizzard all had a degree of Myspace popularity, while Electrocutionerdz, Gigantic Brain, and Genghis Tron all had actual cds being put out by pretty big underground labels. Felt kinda proud to be part of that, even if my shit was some of the worst produced and worst sounding of the bunch and I only had like 100 followers on Myspace. Even managed to get one of my songs a BRR remix! That's to say nothing of success at the time of The Locust, who might not be cybergrind proper but where a huge inspiration to most of us, and Agoraphobic Nosebleed, who are kind in that same vein of not really being cybergrind but cybergrind would not exist without them
Microgenres can also work just on the level of personal preference. Some folk really need everything cataloged and defined, others don't. Most of the heavy music I listen to crosses a few genres over the span of an album, probably because to sound at all interesting in 2020 that's necessary. I don't bother cataloging where each band I like sits on a genre chart, quality is more important.
Couldn’t it be argued that Obituary started death n roll? They never went over the edge with technicality and speed. They were writing catchy stuff from their inception. They took Celtic Frost’s Morbid Tales and mixed in some Discharge-style punk.
They have nothing to do with it, having groove =/= death n roll. Death n roll has to have some kind of hard rock/blues rock aspect to it. Not really getting how Discharge comes into this comparison either?
i think micro genres are mostly for bands that either don't fit anywhere else or where genres collide unexpectedly and it becomes hard to place them. if you can put it in a major genre and only one major genre, you don't need a micro genre.
Portal and it’s sister band Impetuous Ritual are indefinable in my opinion - tho death and death/psych doom is the closest ‘label’. Whatever it is , it is forward looking, experimental and searching. And that’s a good thing
i've been saying this for f'n years - metal is the hydra o' western musick - and black metal is the most chimera o' all genres, seamlessly being able to incorporate more disparate musical xpressions than any other genre (metal or otherwise). prove me wrong...
Surprised to not see a mention of drone doom, with the cult popularity of Sunn O))). I also think no mention of epic heavy metal is a huge omission. While it's not so extreme as the others, it has a long history and is a very specific style that has international popularity and wide reaching influence. To me, it exists in a similar place as war metal, in that it's sort of like power metal but the other side of it. The Conan the Barbarian to power metal's LotR, and early on could maybe be shrugged off as "we get it, you like Manilla Road", but now goes so much further beyond that.
3 things: 1. Entombed's "Wolverine Blues" (excellent album) was part of a sort of Groove Death movement that happened in the mid '90s. The other album that I loved from that era was Pungent Stench's "Dirty Rhymes and Psychotronic Beats" EP. Fucking classic! I think Death'n'Roll started with 6 Feet Under, who had the simplified approach of Rock'n'Roll and the sound of Death Metal. 2. In the mid '90s, I heard Bolt Thrower described as War Metal, which is probably the same reason that commenter dude thought Sabaton were War Metal as both bands sing/growl about war. 3. Meshuggah started the genre of Djent and coined the name, but the genre then became a catch-all term for bands that were influenced by Meshuggah. So yeah, Chris nailed it! Meshuggah > every other Djent band.
Excellent episode. The biggest thing I would add, if I can add anything to this conversation, is that I'm not sure "micro-genre" is really a thing. The different terms are simply description. For example I love doom but there are a ton of "doom" bands who play very different stylistically so we need to describe that and convey that to others. I don't think bands need to be listed under a micro-genre label, the descriptors such as "funeral doom" or "death doom" etc etc are so we can describe the band to other metal fans. Anyone outside metal doesn't know what doom, death, thrash or anything else even is. If I told my dad I was listening to funeral doom he wouldn't have a clue what that meant but if I'm talking to a fellow metalhead funeral doom alone probably wouldn't be enough of a description. I'd have to say something like this band sounds like Bell Witch and Yob had a demonic baby or some such. What I'm saying is we don't need whole new categories we just need common terms fellow metalheads understand so we can guide each other toward new bands to fall in love with.
Portal are in a universe of their own, though Mitochondrion and a very few other bands approach the angular blackened death that's the easiest thing to tag them with. It's a beautiful thing to me for a band to defy categorisation... people like boxes but the best bands don't get readily boxed in.
" It's a beautiful thing to me for a band to defy categorisation... people like boxes but the best bands don't get readily boxed in." ^this It's how I feel about Igorrr. One problem with this however is that its hard to find something similar when you've gone through their entire discography a thousand times. I've listened to Nu metal in a distant past and lately almost anything psychedelic rock. Igorrr has become my gateway to other types of metal, but mostly because I can't find anything like it. If anyone reading this feels obliged to recommend me something along the lines of Igorrr it would be very much appreciated. I want sick riffs on top of breakcore beats backed by real drums. Hardcore distorted kicks, operatic voices. Contrast, humor, theme's. The use of classical instruments. Progressive compositions. A mix of the analogue and digital age. Technical, -because it sounds good, not because it's just impressive. Something I can listen to a 100 times and still discover new details in. Basically: Ruby My Dear, but with guitars. Other bands I've been enjoying are Drumcorps, Wildrun, Gojira, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, We Butter The Bread With Butter, The Ocean, Meshugga, Animals as Leaders, Opeth, Inshan, Slaughter to Prevail. -Of which some only on a "from song to song" basis. I've checked out the bands that were mentioned alongside of Igorrr in this video, but they didn't click with me (yet).
Thrash Doom micro genre has been created by an emerging super young band called OTTTO with their song Thrash Doom With Rob Trujillo’s son on bass they band kicks ass
Twayne Lee Ewing I would say that High On Fire and even earlier, slightly faster doom bands like Saint Vitus had a bit of a head start on the thrash/doom crossover, although in the latter case that is a bit like saying Eyehategod's love of Celtic Frost predicted blackened sludge like The Body and Lord Mantis.
@@ConvincingPeople If anything is 'thrash doom', Carnivore were, beating High on Fire to it by 15 odd years. It might not be the most common combination of riffing styles but it's very well established.
Pretty soon we are going to have to wipe the use of genre "names" and going to have to go with a "formula" or "Sound Code" that indicate the aspects in the band/album/song. Like T followed by a number to indicate the average tempo rating, Then, V followed by an indicator of the types of vocal classes in the band, etc. And another long list of stuff. Then when you are trying to find new bands that hit a specific sound you like or in the mood for, you look at it's "Sound Code". And when a band adds a brand new aspect another value to one of these categories are added. Lol, eventually it will become more manageable, seeing how fast all of this is changing.
Is it? How far does its influence really stretch outside of itself? I hear Meshuggah all over the place, in metal and non-metal bands. But that's Meshuggah, not 'djent'. There seem to be a lot of 'metalcore' and 'deathcore' bands, the sorts that would have (or were, if they were around 15 years ago) been doing the mindless open string chugged parts that now use 'djenty' bits in their place, and even in place of the generic as fuck At the Gates rip off parts. Asides that, I don't really hear it much elsewhere.
@@_Stroda The influence of Djent stretches a long way outside of bands that would typically be considered djent which include riffing similar to Meshuggahs more recent work, which is like THE definition of djent riffing but also riffing similar to bands like Periphery which are more typical of the style now, there are bands in basically every genre of metal that have djent elements at this point and there are even rock bands including djent elements these days (e.g. STARSET) which is a very rare feat for anything in metal to pull off, especially a very heavy and technical form of metal
I think there is something to that especially with the divide between stoner and other kinds of doom where it often feels like completely separate approaches while still being based somewhat on Black Sabbath. But more than that I think it's just that doom is really well defined in one way(it's slow and heavy) while not setting many other limits. If other subgenres worked in the same way thrash, black, power and death metal would probably all be subgenres of speed metal or something. I mean epic doom metal is probably about as close to funeral doom as power metal is to melodic death metal.
Would neoclassical power/tech-death be up for consideration as a micro-genre? Bands like First Fragment, Bleak Flesh, and Vitrified Entity play tech-death but fused with neoclassical power shred influences from the 80's Shrapnel Records era.
"Testament are a thrash metal band and no one will ever question it", Well, they did dabble with death metal vocals, and there was a period you could consider them technical thrash, I mean, the tech bit could have been why they never pushed Anthrax out of the big 4. Just food for thought
Sorry this is kinda a late thought but since they were talking about micro-genres but it just came to my mind are those bands like Insomnium, Wolfheart and Ghost Brigade MeloDeath/doom now?
While a certain segment of metal fans like to mock the idea of Djent as a genre, the top bands that get tagged with that label tend to be truly excellent bands. Periphery, for instance, is way more than just a bunch of djent-da-djent-da-djent-djent morse code clacking riffs. I would go so far as to say that the term "Djent" may be more of a hindrance to those bands.
Djent is basically prog. Progressive metal post metal prog metalcore... Like any other genre there was a slew of copy cats and not so good copies. IMO the best are. ANIMALS AS LEADERS PERIPHERY VILDHJARTA and of course MESHUGGAH birthing these bands.
I've never got into it too much getting older as it hit (did grab a couple AAL albums), but whenever i hear it i'm typically impressed. It's usually powerful, well orchestrated, and hits that same emotional nerve alot of good metal does for me.
Never thought I would hear the term Progressive in the same sentence as BOSTON? Listened again to make certain. Peals of Laughter. PORTAL ... Nuff said, turned a corner with ION.
Keep up the good work .. love Lock Horns in all its variations ... this Redux version is great in its own merit ... I have always appreciated sub and micro generes because of a simple truth ... to appeal to a larger audience and be “main stream” music must be dumbed down both musically as well as lyrically, so most people can like it and identify with it, so having a small audience although is not economically the best option, I think is a plus when it comes to quality and validity of the music. \m/
20:42 "just because someone likes doom doesn't mean they will like funeral doom." I'm evidence that it cuts both ways. I've migrated away from metal over the years and funeral doom is pretty much the only style that's brought me back. Regular doom doesn't really do it for me. It's mostly too groovy and I detest stoner doom.
Electronic has the most genres by far. Not that it’s a contest. At some point we end up with genres for nearly every band so what’s the point. Music and film should be beyond genre, anyway, but that’s just me.
I'm a 50 year old metal head. I thought if you were going to discuss Sub & micro genres, you could 2 guests who varied in their metal. Chris & Blayne had similar tastes & just agreed with each other. Would have been good to see someone have a different perspective. I'm sure that as the genre of Djent is so big, someone has to like it?? 🤘🏻🤘🏻
I'm surprised Djent was classified as a micro genre, I don't like it but I feel like there are enough bands and influence over the last 10-15 years that it has became a full sub genre. It was a micro genre back when it was basically just Meshugaah and some people chatting on extended range guitar forums. Since then it has not only grown into a sub genre of its own, but that genre has been around long enough, with enough attention on it, to become somewhat stale. I'd argue it started as a micro genre of Prog Metal but I feel it has completely seperated itself from that now. I'm also surprised there was no mention of Porno/Gore Grind as micro genres of Grindcore. They have been around a long time but they have always been specific enough to fall underneath Grindcore rather than seperating entirely, as I such I believe them to be quientessential micro genres. I'd say a similar thing about Slam Death as a micro genre underneath the more broader sub genre of Brutal Death Metal.
And idea for a Lock Horns discussion: why European and North American scenes differs so much? I think this channel wants to be a central global hub for metal but I feel that since they are from Canada they don’t understand or don’t like European metal.
Deathgrind, is fucking awesome and brings a much need political element from grindcore back to Death metal. P. S. The American style of Blackened Folk seems to be called Blackened Blues from what I can find.
Kvelertak - Splid (2020) & their self titled 2010 debut are good Black N' Roll albums... On a side note King Crimson are the 1st to use polymeters... then Tool & then Meshuggah the pioneers/ prototypes... Just like Black Sabbath invented doom metal from taking what Led Zeppelin invented (Heavy Metal)... J.R.R Tolkien references also, starts with Led Zeppelin
I always just assumed Portal was avant-garde death metal. Which, as roughly established here (in the case of black metal) is the adjective you use when there's a bunch of bands that are a bit too odd and artistic to be 'subgenred' regularly beyond the fact that at it's core it's black/death metal. Basically, they don't need to sound anything like other avant-garde dm bands at all. Also many of those a-g bm and dm bands are labeled as dissonant dm/bm (Gorguts, Deathspell Omega, etc). Also, maybe this will help them with the perpetual Devin Townsend debate, but I'm fairly sure people lump him in as avant-garde metal.
Blayne was particularly on fire on this episode. Or at least he defined things in a way that closely reflects my own outlook, which means he must be right, yes?
Logic checks out.
He is one of my the smartest people on RUclips.
that's how truth works. Lol
Blayne's containment to the mention of deathspell omega... priceless
Thy Catafalque should be mentioned somewhere about avant-garde metal IMO. Its roots were also in the BM but since then it had elements of such a wide variety of genres (folk, electronic music, prog, jazz, doom to name a few).
Agreed. I love their work.
Amazing band! If you're into Thy, also checkout Katharos XIII and White Ward.
I love Lock Horns and the redux is very very welcome, especially in COVID lockdown! But the one thing I would suggest as an improvement for next season is your seating configuration! Popular talk shows as I'm sure you know sit the host off to one side and the guests on the other, which makes it easier to talk to and include everyone in the conversation without giving the host whiplash (pun intended!). I think if Sam wasn't already a seasoned metalhead he'd need a neckbrace in future lol. But other than that I think everything is perfect, especially content wise, keep it up! \m/
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for watching Ryan!!!
@@BangerTV no, thank YOU for making such awesome videos!
Nice observation
Chris Bruni is a God... like 90% of all the awesome metal music released in the past 20 years got its start on Profound Lore. It's awesome to see his label find more success.
Best episode so far. My question is though: at what point does a microgenre become a sub genre? Is it based on the number of bands playing in the styles, how long it's been around, how big the microgenre has gotten within the wider world of metal?
I think influence would have to be key factor for defining genres. Which is difficult to measure with mircogenre for obvious reasons. It’s hard to predict if a certain group of bands within a microgenre will be cited as influences for bands 10 years down the road.
That is how I perceive it. I always considered a micro genre as something that are basically one-offs, few bands at best but never grow anything bigger. This is why I was against calling DSBM a micro genre because it has beem around pretty much as long as Black Metal itself and has many, many bands.
Great question and GREAT answers
I think a microgenre is like when your genre is so laser focused on a specific element. Like pornogrind, or cybergrind, or even like war metal. It may be a bit over simplified, but I think Goniloc's video on War Metal kind of explains that, or in how Finn McKenty mentioned being confused about D-Beat, because it's essentially a genre of bands trying their best to emulate Discharge the best.
I’m not a fan of djent but I’d say it’s a full fledged genre
I'd have to agree
Djent is not a genre but a type of guitar sound
Depressive/suicidal black metal, slam, drone-doom and powerviolence seem like the most obvious inclusions not to be explored in this episode (which was, by the way, absolutely exceptional), although the first was at least mentioned. These styles are extremely niche for certain, and are often adjacent to other fairly specific styles within their broader genres and subgenres, but they are also incredibly distinctive and fairly diverse.
Powerviolence is hardcore punk
Yeah PV is punk, although fairly influential to certain metal/hardcore crossover genres
Locohappy Powerviolence is relevant enough to early deathcore and mathcore and modern sludge, crust, grindcore and deathgrind to be inextricable from the metal conversation. Also, despite the insistence of certain PV acts that they had no connection to metal, nosireebob, particularly on the fastcore side of things, those weird sudden tempo changes and slower breakdowns have a lot more in common with Autopsy, Melvins or Saint Vitus than Minor Threat or DRI. Which is not to say it isn't punk in spirit and culture, but the sound definitely took cues from metal in a big way, *especially* Man is the Bastard.
ConvincingPeople,Could Ethnic Metal be a Microgenre?
Bands that are so proud of their ethnicity that they become the Advertisements for their different heritages
@@TabithaReminiec3399 also tends to be FUCKING racist as well.
Still can't believe how Ulcerate is getting zero attention... Their effort crossing frontiers makes them a genre itself
Agreed. Post metal/Avant garde is on the rise as well.
@@freq9939 they are dissonant death metal, period. Not very Avant-garde metal since Gorguts did it first.
Check Karmacypher from Hong Kong, they are way better version of Ulcerate
@@mentevanguardista908 nah...you joking right .....listen to of fracture and failure or everything is fire....no even close bro ...hahhaha
@@mentevanguardista908 Dissonant Progressive Death Metal I'd say, hence a micro-genre.
I love how Chirs was like "No" on djent haha
At about 8:00: The "old school death metal" paradox... that's brilliant! It's like the new catch 22!
It's hard to talk about or describe music without genres. Try to describe how a record sounds to someone who hasn't heard of the band without mentioning a genre or a similar sounding band, pretty hard. If you say it's funeral doom, norse core, black gaze, death n roll or whatever, people immediately get a picture of how it sounds. The more narrow micro genre, the better description
High quality content as always guys, you are the better Headbangers Ball of our time
I wish deathgrind had gotten more coverage. That being said, loved this. Definitely given me some good bands to check out
Big fan of ripping limb from limb?
I enjoyed this episode a lot. Might be my fave so far of the Redux. Both guests were really into it and were quite articulate.
This was pure fun! Talking genres, that is the core of Banger!
Is there anything that's just death metal? MASSACRE bro!
that old tower longsleeve fits perfectly here :)
This is a tricky one...
The lack of rules has lead us to this.
But at the same time, the lack of rules is what makes metal so great.
Details, over complication and mix and matching is how metal stays alive... I guess.
Personally I love everything death metal and black metal 🤘
Also remember that metal was considered to be “extreme music” so it makes sense that everything around it is also extreme like the labeling.
Granted I'm only 11 mins in, and this point could be addressed later in the show; I'd dare say that, with all the expanding variation within metal, that metal itself has grown from being a subgenres of rock n roll into a genre on it's own.
Yeah, exactly, in the same way as rock is a genre itself, not a blues subgenre.
Yup, same with punk and hardcore. There’s so many permutations.
Yeah that’s why we need to tell people we don’t listen to fucking rock. If anything we have always been a jazz sub-genre any with blues/rock influences. Because really Black Sabbath is just a swing band with a virtuoso rock/jazz guitarist with a blues singer.
Remember they were a Jazz band called Earth before, Ozzy wrote the lyrics to Black Sabbath and the rest they say is history.
Hell the other 2 original metal bands Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin we’re heavily influenced by jazz more than rock/blues any how.
Classification of genres basically is a specification of the style of a metal band plays. Its basically an evolution of music and these micro genres will soon grow to its own metal genre.
Unrelated to my previous comment: This discussion has probably had the highest concentration of shoutouts to my favourite bands and styles on a Lock Horns episode. Extensive discussion of Portal and the cavernous death metal wave with nods and shouts to Shining, Bell Witch, Teitanblood, Panopticon, Oranssi Pazuzu, Blasphemy, Wormphlegm, Deathspell Omega, Igorrr, Ved Buens Ende, Leviathan, Wormlust, even freakin' Xysma of all bands! And Sam did mention DSBM even if they didn't specifically bring up any examples with the very debatable exception of Leviathan-although a digression on the likes of the infinitely freaky Todesstoß or the absolutely etherial Sadness would have been great, as would nods to the god-tier implacable strangeness of Jute Gyte and the deeply peculiar I, Voidhanger label in the section on experimental/avant-garde black metal. Overall, though, I found this unintentional pandering almost as pleasing as the discussion itself.
can't wait for funeral ska
Hahaha wow
I will see it after the stream. I'm really curious about this topic.
No love for Blackgaze? I wanted to hear Blayne talk about Deafheaven🤣
Not only in Metal, in music in general artists, intermediaries and public like to distinguish themselves and be set apart in order to be recognized, that's why there's such a proliferation of genres, subgenres and microgenres. Some catch on: Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Grindcore, etc... while others don't seem to stick (besides Macabre, who plays Murder Metal?). I find this subject tremendously fascinating from a personal and academic viewpoint, most of my work in Extreme Music has to do with it.
You guys definitely need to hear the new Oranssi Pazuzu album. It’s my aoty so far!
I agree. I went back and listened to the rest of their catalog as well and I dig all of it. Great band with a fresh sound.
Cmon you're pulling my chain. You just made that name up.
Wayne Hasch the first time I saw the name was like “there’s no way I’m gonna remember that.” Boy was I wrong
Easy for me to remember, at least the second word. There was a guy in the next town over that went to my high school. He changed his name to Pazuzu Algarad. He started kind of a cult, started dismembering animals, and killed several people and buried them in his yard. Hard to forget that name Haha. They actually did a docuseries on him on Vice.
@@plantdesigns7889 Pazuzu is also the name of the demon in the Exorcist, so that's what sticks with me.
Really happy. Got a bit deeper in micro genres in metal. Thanks.
love this but please bring back some of the discussion/debates around albums back. So many good things to say about this channel. Thanks!
Not just floating around for years, funeral doom is very well established over 25 years ago and could have it's own show to talk about all the bands like Funeral, Esoteric etc! I feel a microgenre would be slam, black n roll, pornogrind, progressive metalcore, grisly death
The funny thing about 'progressive metalcore' is that 'real' metalcore bands were far more progressive than any of the bands that are labelled as such.
Guys, you're missing: Industrial black metal, Industrial death metal, Goregrind, Groovy goregrind, Cybergrind, Grindnoise, Gorenoise and Noisecore (the original, not that term stolen by Today is the Day).
Also slam btw
Sub-genres are a guideline, not a strict rule set. It absolutely helps people find more music that they enjoy. Nothing wrong with them at all.
I love BM, and particularly, atmospheric BM, so I enjoy finding groups who incorporate keys and other sounds, but not with an overwhelming sound to them like “symphonic” BM leans into. Some are more pronounced in their songs, but on the whole, using the term atmospheric instead of st phonic, brings me to them.
One of my favourite death n roll albums is Carcass' Swansong
Cool episode. Microgenres can be tedious but they can help fans ID bands they may like & they help bands stand out in a crowded scene
The key thing here is the general genres it is needed. While Stratovarius, Morbid Angel, Solitude Aeturnus and Darkthrone are all metal, all 4 are VASTLY different from each other. Then there's the sub genres, which are good as well, especially when it's combining genres (death-doom, blackened thrash, etc.). But to the point, yes, even microgeneres are useful due to the vastness of the metal scene as a whole.
Is Grand Declaration of War by Mayhem considered an avant-garde black metal album? I mean, it has a lot of experimentation in it...
And I love this fucking album, especially In The Lies Where Upon You Lay and Completion In Science Of Agony, a very underrated album in my opinion
BLAYNE I LOVE YOUR COBALT (Gin) longsleeve!! One of my fave USBM bands and totally underappreciated!
Black Noise , Drone Metal are some of my favorite microgenres .
I love drone
As a 43 year old American who grew up and lives in Germany I got a good insight into how Metal evolved. Back in the days you had as an example Speed Metal (Helloween, Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian etc.) which turned in time to Melodic Speed and you had for example Power Metal (Morgana Lefay, Hammerfall, Savatage etc.) ... but holy fuck what happened? Now there isn't anymore Melodic Speed. Now all Melodic Speed Metal Bands are categorized as Power Metal where as Savatage, Morgana Lefay etc. seem to also be dealt into that mix ... What a mess ...
P.W. Robinson I hear you. I find it both greatly amusing and annoying with which fervor metal fans these days debate genre classifications of bands. The only other group of people I know that have the same heated arguments are accountants and controllers.When I bought „Keeper of the Seven Keys“ when it came out, Helloween were just Metal. I cannot for the life of me remember hearing the term „Power Metal“ until the early 2000s.
Lock Horn's redux discussions have a lot of potential and the discussions are usually interesting but the outcome is usually very disappointing.
The way you try to define your topic is often ludicrous and either biased or rely too much on "fans" who "preach for their own parish".
The topic of this session is micro-genres. Micro comes from ancient greek and mean extremely small, referring often to something invisible to the naked eye (i feel arrogant to write the definition but I need it to make my point).
So based on this definition we could say that micro-genre is a genre that is so specific, so obscure or so unknown that only a handful of bands can be categorized as such, this is a genre that is so small that you can't notice it or think of it when you look at Metal as a wider genre, and you notice this genre only by digging deep into the subgenres of Metal (It might be a sub genre within a sub genre for exemple).
Therefore Djent CANNOT be categorized as a micro-genre considering the amount of bands that are now playing Djent and the success of the genre over the last (2) decade(s). A lot of people will be mad about reading it, but accept that Djent is a broader genre along Heavy Metal, Thrash, Death or Black Metal nowadays, or maybe we could consider it a sub-genre of Progressive Metal. But definitely not a micro-genre.
The same could apply to Post Black Metal which became a quite big subgenre over the last decade, the number of Post Black Metal bands has boomed over the last 10 years, therefore Post Black is a subgenre of Black Metal not a micro-genre.
I think we need to accept now that Rock is a broad umbrella of musical families (Pop Rock, Punk, Rock N' Roll, Metal, etc...) and not just a genre or style.
And each families has genres, for example Metal has Heavy Metal, Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Doom Metal, ...
Each genre has subgenres: Death Metal has Brutal Death, Technical Death, Slam, ...
And then subgenres have bands playing a subgenre in a very specific or personal way, leading to the micro-genres: Thrash Metal has Tribal Thrash as subgenre, and within the Tribal Thrash subgenre a band like Alien Weaponry created the Maori-Metal for example and this would be our micro-genre.
Or Rings of Saturn created the Aliencore within the Tech-Death/Deathcore sub-genre, and Aliencore would be the micro-genre in that case.
Of course this is just my opinion I am not saying I am 100% right, but at least if you want to come up with a definition of something, then having a bit of "scientific" or analytical rigour would make your videos much more structured and give you more credibility.
In the end when I see the outcome of the video I get the bitter impression that you guys don't know what you are talking about (I am not saying that you don't know what you are talking about, but that you give this impression).
Sorry for my long and very nerdy comment btw.
Otherwise your guests are always very interesting people, I really liked the one with Abigail William's guitarist and Chris from Profound Lore seems to be a very nice guy (that contrasts a lot with the extreme music promoted by his label).
I agree. I had the same feeling with the discussion around album covers and logos. It seems like a bar conversation and the participants put too much personal opinion.
I agree. They often come off as condescending/elitist instead of staying more neutral to all sub genres of metal. I would like to hear less biased opinions given on the topic.
Would have been cool to see Akercocke (also Voices), and A Forest of Stars brought into this conversation....amazingly eclectic, stylistically diverse (ie. hard to pigeon-hole), excellent metal. As always of course, great job all the way @BANGERTV, love what you do.
Yes! Voices definitely fit that avante garde micro genre.
Fuck all genres & just dig the music.
My Band "No Evil Music" has that sort of micro genre thing going on, it's Part Alt Metal, Doom Metal, Melodic Metalcore & mid-Tempo grindcore.
I can't imagine that mix working out :D
The Band is mainly "Alternative Doom Metal" & "Doomgrind" with a hint of Melodic Metalcore, but most of the songs are instrumental.
Joezer Moreira Leite
When I still had the time to make music, I considered what I did cybergrind, and that's a genre that had a moment in the mid-2000's that really felt big. It's such a weird genre, blending grind with chiptune, dance, and industrial, that it was never going to be mainstream. But BAYI, The Leviathan's Mandible, Kindergarten Hazing Ritual, Breakdancing Ronald Reagan (before they moved into a noise project), and The Almighty Spork Wizzard all had a degree of Myspace popularity, while Electrocutionerdz, Gigantic Brain, and Genghis Tron all had actual cds being put out by pretty big underground labels. Felt kinda proud to be part of that, even if my shit was some of the worst produced and worst sounding of the bunch and I only had like 100 followers on Myspace. Even managed to get one of my songs a BRR remix! That's to say nothing of success at the time of The Locust, who might not be cybergrind proper but where a huge inspiration to most of us, and Agoraphobic Nosebleed, who are kind in that same vein of not really being cybergrind but cybergrind would not exist without them
Zuckuss is the only band playing Star Wars Inspired Porno Grind as far as we know, over 20 years now.
Cheers Guyg
Jauneras is like roadsigns to the expected feeling you will obtain by listening to it.
Microgenres can also work just on the level of personal preference. Some folk really need everything cataloged and defined, others don't. Most of the heavy music I listen to crosses a few genres over the span of an album, probably because to sound at all interesting in 2020 that's necessary. I don't bother cataloging where each band I like sits on a genre chart, quality is more important.
Chris is great, but his soothing voice almost puts me to sleep. I want him to read a bedtime story to me.
Maybe he has a future in V/O work....
Bands make the music, the fans decide where it goes. A band that says they are a certain genre limits them too much.
Occult Gore Metal should totally be a microgenre
Chris Bruni used to write in BW&BK. Learned alot from this guy in my formative metal years.
Couldn’t it be argued that Obituary started death n roll? They never went over the edge with technicality and speed. They were writing catchy stuff from their inception. They took Celtic Frost’s Morbid Tales and mixed in some Discharge-style punk.
Entombed?
They have nothing to do with it, having groove =/= death n roll. Death n roll has to have some kind of hard rock/blues rock aspect to it. Not really getting how Discharge comes into this comparison either?
Absolutely love Evoken 👌
Antithesis of Light is a masterpiece
i think micro genres are mostly for bands that either don't fit anywhere else or where genres collide unexpectedly and it becomes hard to place them. if you can put it in a major genre and only one major genre, you don't need a micro genre.
Portal and it’s sister band Impetuous Ritual are indefinable in my opinion - tho death and death/psych doom is the closest ‘label’. Whatever it is , it is forward looking, experimental and searching. And that’s a good thing
Impetuous Ritual are not their sister band. Only two (unoriginal) Portal members are in it
i've been saying this for f'n years - metal is the hydra o' western musick - and black metal is the most chimera o' all genres, seamlessly being able to incorporate more disparate musical xpressions than any other genre (metal or otherwise). prove me wrong...
Good episode - closer to the original Lock Horns concept. There are tons more sub-genres to cover ... more episodes please!
can we talk about how amazing Gin by Cobalt is, and how amazing Blayne is for wearing that shirt?
Cobalt is great
Surprised to not see a mention of drone doom, with the cult popularity of Sunn O))). I also think no mention of epic heavy metal is a huge omission. While it's not so extreme as the others, it has a long history and is a very specific style that has international popularity and wide reaching influence. To me, it exists in a similar place as war metal, in that it's sort of like power metal but the other side of it. The Conan the Barbarian to power metal's LotR, and early on could maybe be shrugged off as "we get it, you like Manilla Road", but now goes so much further beyond that.
Can't wait for this show
3 things:
1. Entombed's "Wolverine Blues" (excellent album) was part of a sort of Groove Death movement that happened in the mid '90s. The other album that I loved from that era was Pungent Stench's "Dirty Rhymes and Psychotronic Beats" EP. Fucking classic! I think Death'n'Roll started with 6 Feet Under, who had the simplified approach of Rock'n'Roll and the sound of Death Metal.
2. In the mid '90s, I heard Bolt Thrower described as War Metal, which is probably the same reason that commenter dude thought Sabaton were War Metal as both bands sing/growl about war.
3. Meshuggah started the genre of Djent and coined the name, but the genre then became a catch-all term for bands that were influenced by Meshuggah. So yeah, Chris nailed it! Meshuggah > every other Djent band.
I love discussions like this
Excellent episode. The biggest thing I would add, if I can add anything to this conversation, is that I'm not sure "micro-genre" is really a thing. The different terms are simply description. For example I love doom but there are a ton of "doom" bands who play very different stylistically so we need to describe that and convey that to others. I don't think bands need to be listed under a micro-genre label, the descriptors such as "funeral doom" or "death doom" etc etc are so we can describe the band to other metal fans. Anyone outside metal doesn't know what doom, death, thrash or anything else even is. If I told my dad I was listening to funeral doom he wouldn't have a clue what that meant but if I'm talking to a fellow metalhead funeral doom alone probably wouldn't be enough of a description. I'd have to say something like this band sounds like Bell Witch and Yob had a demonic baby or some such. What I'm saying is we don't need whole new categories we just need common terms fellow metalheads understand so we can guide each other toward new bands to fall in love with.
Portal are in a universe of their own, though Mitochondrion and a very few other bands approach the angular blackened death that's the easiest thing to tag them with. It's a beautiful thing to me for a band to defy categorisation... people like boxes but the best bands don't get readily boxed in.
" It's a beautiful thing to me for a band to defy categorisation... people like boxes but the best bands don't get readily boxed in."
^this
It's how I feel about Igorrr. One problem with this however is that its hard to find something similar when you've gone through their entire discography a thousand times.
I've listened to Nu metal in a distant past and lately almost anything psychedelic rock. Igorrr has become my gateway to other types of metal, but mostly because I can't find anything like it.
If anyone reading this feels obliged to recommend me something along the lines of Igorrr it would be very much appreciated. I want sick riffs on top of breakcore beats backed by real drums. Hardcore distorted kicks, operatic voices. Contrast, humor, theme's. The use of classical instruments. Progressive compositions. A mix of the analogue and digital age. Technical, -because it sounds good, not because it's just impressive. Something I can listen to a 100 times and still discover new details in. Basically: Ruby My Dear, but with guitars.
Other bands I've been enjoying are Drumcorps, Wildrun, Gojira, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, We Butter The Bread With Butter, The Ocean, Meshugga, Animals as Leaders, Opeth, Inshan, Slaughter to Prevail. -Of which some only on a "from song to song" basis. I've checked out the bands that were mentioned alongside of Igorrr in this video, but they didn't click with me (yet).
Thrash Doom micro genre has been created by an emerging super young band called OTTTO with their song Thrash Doom
With Rob Trujillo’s son on bass they band kicks ass
Twayne Lee Ewing I would say that High On Fire and even earlier, slightly faster doom bands like Saint Vitus had a bit of a head start on the thrash/doom crossover, although in the latter case that is a bit like saying Eyehategod's love of Celtic Frost predicted blackened sludge like The Body and Lord Mantis.
@@ConvincingPeople If anything is 'thrash doom', Carnivore were, beating High on Fire to it by 15 odd years. It might not be the most common combination of riffing styles but it's very well established.
Pretty soon we are going to have to wipe the use of genre "names" and going to have to go with a "formula" or "Sound Code" that indicate the aspects in the band/album/song. Like T followed by a number to indicate the average tempo rating, Then, V followed by an indicator of the types of vocal classes in the band, etc. And another long list of stuff. Then when you are trying to find new bands that hit a specific sound you like or in the mood for, you look at it's "Sound Code". And when a band adds a brand new aspect another value to one of these categories are added. Lol, eventually it will become more manageable, seeing how fast all of this is changing.
Why does Djent get the shaft again?
I love pretty much every kind of metal, but Djent is more influential than all of these other micro genres.
Is it? How far does its influence really stretch outside of itself?
I hear Meshuggah all over the place, in metal and non-metal bands. But that's Meshuggah, not 'djent'. There seem to be a lot of 'metalcore' and 'deathcore' bands, the sorts that would have (or were, if they were around 15 years ago) been doing the mindless open string chugged parts that now use 'djenty' bits in their place, and even in place of the generic as fuck At the Gates rip off parts. Asides that, I don't really hear it much elsewhere.
If you like organic sounding metal. As these gentlemen do. The overtly heavily processed sound of Djent is almost impossible to enjoy.
@@_Stroda The influence of Djent stretches a long way outside of bands that would typically be considered djent which include riffing similar to Meshuggahs more recent work, which is like THE definition of djent riffing but also riffing similar to bands like Periphery which are more typical of the style now, there are bands in basically every genre of metal that have djent elements at this point and there are even rock bands including djent elements these days (e.g. STARSET) which is a very rare feat for anything in metal to pull off, especially a very heavy and technical form of metal
Is it realistic to assume that Doom has so many micro genre's since it's one of the fist sub genres ever?
I think there is something to that especially with the divide between stoner and other kinds of doom where it often feels like completely separate approaches while still being based somewhat on Black Sabbath. But more than that I think it's just that doom is really well defined in one way(it's slow and heavy) while not setting many other limits. If other subgenres worked in the same way thrash, black, power and death metal would probably all be subgenres of speed metal or something. I mean epic doom metal is probably about as close to funeral doom as power metal is to melodic death metal.
I think black metal may have more microgenres and hasn't been around as long
Would neoclassical power/tech-death be up for consideration as a micro-genre? Bands like First Fragment, Bleak Flesh, and Vitrified Entity play tech-death but fused with neoclassical power shred influences from the 80's Shrapnel Records era.
"Testament are a thrash metal band and no one will ever question it", Well, they did dabble with death metal vocals, and there was a period you could consider them technical thrash, I mean, the tech bit could have been why they never pushed Anthrax out of the big 4. Just food for thought
Sorry this is kinda a late thought but since they were talking about micro-genres but it just came to my mind are those bands like Insomnium, Wolfheart and Ghost Brigade
MeloDeath/doom now?
Goregrind, gorenoise, and all the cyber branches of metal. And let's not forget Bestial War Metal.
While a certain segment of metal fans like to mock the idea of Djent as a genre, the top bands that get tagged with that label tend to be truly excellent bands. Periphery, for instance, is way more than just a bunch of djent-da-djent-da-djent-djent morse code clacking riffs. I would go so far as to say that the term "Djent" may be more of a hindrance to those bands.
Djent is basically prog. Progressive metal post metal prog metalcore... Like any other genre there was a slew of copy cats and not so good copies. IMO the best are. ANIMALS AS LEADERS
PERIPHERY
VILDHJARTA
and of course MESHUGGAH birthing these bands.
I've never got into it too much getting older as it hit (did grab a couple AAL albums), but whenever i hear it i'm typically impressed. It's usually powerful, well orchestrated, and hits that same emotional nerve alot of good metal does for me.
Black n roll and no mention of Kvelertak??
Thought the same thing
Love that band |m|/
The more obscure subgenre you can name, the cooler you are!
Such an informative episode right here.
Kudos, Sam!
Never thought I would hear the term Progressive in the same sentence as BOSTON? Listened again to make certain.
Peals of Laughter.
PORTAL ... Nuff said, turned a corner with ION.
Love these videos. Gonna check out some of the bands mentioned. Already ordered a Pallbearer album..
Keep up the good work .. love Lock Horns in all its variations ... this Redux version is great in its own merit ... I have always appreciated sub and micro generes because of a simple truth ... to appeal to a larger audience and be “main stream” music must be dumbed down both musically as well as lyrically, so most people can like it and identify with it, so having a small audience although is not economically the best option, I think is a plus when it comes to quality and validity of the music. \m/
Hey Blayne! Or the incorporation of the Traditional instruments that are from a certain country ?
Ved Buens Ende is great and Virus is even greater!
20:42 "just because someone likes doom doesn't mean they will like funeral doom." I'm evidence that it cuts both ways. I've migrated away from metal over the years and funeral doom is pretty much the only style that's brought me back. Regular doom doesn't really do it for me. It's mostly too groovy and I detest stoner doom.
Profound Lore rules
Electronic has the most genres by far. Not that it’s a contest. At some point we end up with genres for nearly every band so what’s the point. Music and film should be beyond genre, anyway, but that’s just me.
Viva la Eclectic!
Electronic music can be overwhelming for that reason alone
I'm a 50 year old metal head.
I thought if you were going to discuss Sub & micro genres, you could 2 guests who varied in their metal. Chris & Blayne had similar tastes & just agreed with each other. Would have been good to see someone have a different perspective. I'm sure that as the genre of Djent is so big, someone has to like it?? 🤘🏻🤘🏻
I'm surprised Djent was classified as a micro genre, I don't like it but I feel like there are enough bands and influence over the last 10-15 years that it has became a full sub genre. It was a micro genre back when it was basically just Meshugaah and some people chatting on extended range guitar forums. Since then it has not only grown into a sub genre of its own, but that genre has been around long enough, with enough attention on it, to become somewhat stale. I'd argue it started as a micro genre of Prog Metal but I feel it has completely seperated itself from that now.
I'm also surprised there was no mention of Porno/Gore Grind as micro genres of Grindcore. They have been around a long time but they have always been specific enough to fall underneath Grindcore rather than seperating entirely, as I such I believe them to be quientessential micro genres. I'd say a similar thing about Slam Death as a micro genre underneath the more broader sub genre of Brutal Death Metal.
The one super group everyone needs to mention his Hear N Aid with Ronnie James Dio!
And idea for a Lock Horns discussion: why European and North American scenes differs so much? I think this channel wants to be a central global hub for metal but I feel that since they are from Canada they don’t understand or don’t like European metal.
I love Avant-garde metal and funeral doom metal.
Great episode guys!
Deathgrind, is fucking awesome and brings a much need political element from grindcore back to Death metal.
P. S. The American style of Blackened Folk seems to be called Blackened Blues from what I can find.
Kvelertak - Splid (2020) & their self titled 2010 debut are good Black N' Roll albums...
On a side note King Crimson are the 1st to use polymeters... then Tool & then Meshuggah the pioneers/ prototypes... Just like Black Sabbath invented doom metal from taking what Led Zeppelin invented (Heavy Metal)... J.R.R Tolkien references also, starts with Led Zeppelin
Portal = Progressive Technical Death Metal. C'Thulu has been waiting for this band.
ION is a ritual for your mind.
I remember rolling my eyes and wondering what the hell was going on when Xysma turned into something completely different.
The Accused ! The one and only band in the micro-genre "Splatter Rock"
Great Episode guys!
Djent. Had no idea, love AtB, BoO, Fallujah, Periphery, Architects, Thira, Buried Above Ground.....
18:30 This is a very good quote
I always just assumed Portal was avant-garde death metal. Which, as roughly established here (in the case of black metal) is the adjective you use when there's a bunch of bands that are a bit too odd and artistic to be 'subgenred' regularly beyond the fact that at it's core it's black/death metal. Basically, they don't need to sound anything like other avant-garde dm bands at all. Also many of those a-g bm and dm bands are labeled as dissonant dm/bm (Gorguts, Deathspell Omega, etc).
Also, maybe this will help them with the perpetual Devin Townsend debate, but I'm fairly sure people lump him in as avant-garde metal.