I feel the reason they use the Bill/English scene, is to drive home the fact that Bill is a fairly tyrannical ruler of his town and to set up what's to come when Eastwood and his gang shows up. Overall its probably not needed for the main plot, but it provides context for the morally grey area of the "good guy" Disarms a grey haired old man, has him at gunpoint, and still beats him to a pulp. It kind of sets up the movie to be a very morally grey ending. Overall great breakdown! Keep it up!
Agreed. It is really a vehicle for a character study of Little Bill. But also it brings the mythology of the West into the foreground because English Bill is carrying the writer with him, who otherwise would be there by pure coincidence.
@@jmoountfort5204 It tries to be that but not really. Munny's deepest sociopathic deeds are talked about but never shown Words are empty to convey his atrocities. He is portrayed as a reflective man of depth and introspection. Thus he becomes the hero. Little Bill on the other hand is shown viscerally doing the most cruel atrocities with not an ounce of remorse. Not only does this set up the hatred for LB as the villain, it gives the audience cathartic release in the bloodbath at the end. All this "revisionist" stuff is nonsense. A true revisionist Western would leave us with deep ambiguity. Bonnie and Clyde did that at the end. You are set up to like the robbers, but the film gets darker and darker as the frivolity slips away. Also, the guns end up pointed at YOU. It caused an uproar when released. Here, in Unforgiven, none of that is present. Can't make $$$ that way. Half a loaf here is not better than none. Siskel and Ebert didn't like it all that much either.
I think you are missing the point. Little Bill despises bounty hunters and is very angry at the fact that a bounty was put out by the prostitutes because he knows what kind of people that will draw to his town and he knows it’s gonna be hard to keep law and order with all these hired killers flocking to Big Whiskey. Bill hates Bob because he embodies everything he despises, a hired killer who is nothing but a coward and a back shooter. Bill maybe excessive in his brutality but one thing he is not is a coward.
Excellent depiction young man. An eye for detail like yours needs to work in the industry. I think Clint is genius but through hard work and observation. The lighting style in this film is borrowed but needed. Great vid.
I think you missed some big elements. 1) Alcohol. Muney makes it clear he was drunk when he did all that killing. It's no coincidence he starts drinking heavy when it's time to kill Little Bill and Slim, and he goes in confident and cold blooded. 2) Little Bill was protecting the ranch hands any way he could, despite what they had done. That was the point of the English Bob story line. When they hear what Bill did to an assassin like Bob, other killers wouldn't head over to big Whisky to do some killing. We even see Bills sadistic side in how he beats Bob, and most of all, Ned. Little Bill wasn't a 'good guy'. 3) Muney was the prostitutes last hope, and he doesn't forget it. His last words are a warning to the towns people to leave them alone and don't cause them any harm, despite already having been paid for killing the ranch hands. A little back story as to why he was so protective of them would have been interesting.
Alcohol didn't make him evil. He was always the reaper. Run and hide all he could but his penance was knowing who he was/is. The "they put a sign on him?!" lit the fuse, he drank the whiskey because he was thirsty 😊
I disagree I don’t think LB was particularly a bad guy. He was simply trying to keep peace in his town and town sheriffs during this time period would only tell you once and if you didn’t comply you would be very sorry.
I liked the movie. Some other greats for me are the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns, particularly The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, and Once Upon a Time in the West. The Ennio Morricone soundtracks were a huge plus.
This is without doubt my favourite western. I myself really liked the idea of English Bob because he optimises the myth of the romantic Wild West. It’s all a lie. Just as the true Wild West was an era of violent, merciless ethos of kill or be killed. Behind English Bobs seemingly heroic demeanour is a cowardly drunk who killed a wounded man in cold blood simply out of petty jealousy. When we’re first introduced to him, English Bob speaks in Received Pronunciation. Upholding his facade of an honourable, heroic, elegant gentleman. But as soon as he’s rattled, he reverts back to a thick cockney accent. This demonstrates the genius of Clint Eastwoods writing. Everything about English Bob is a lie. His demeanour, his heroism, his exploits, even his accent. All false.
Oh no no no no…..I don’t agree with you at all about English Bob. I feel that character was invaluable to a story that strips away western myth. I thought the writing of that character was absolutely brilliant in that of a man trying to make himself a heroic figure when in fact he is nothing but a back shooting coward. I thought it was brilliant to have sequences where Little Bill absolutely destroys him physically with a savage beating and then destroys his pride with the truth about him to Mr. Beauchamp who is Bob’s “ biographer”.
@@filmreview4604 I was about to say the same thing. Bob is portraying himself to be a great gun fighter, to his tag-along writer. The scene of him being ridden out of town holding his bent pistols, was like a showing that he wasn't all that. Achilles had been exposed.
I agree, I think the film would feel like it was missing something essential if you took English Bob out of it, in terms of defining the character of Little BIll and characterising the theme of ‘myth’ in the West.
Cool, Hard, tuff movie and when the people took the law in their own hands and justice and wanted better life to their children etc.. But very good movie too like.
Little Bill isn't the good guy either. He's a tyrannical ruler that mercilessly beats those he doesn't like. He disarmed and proceeded to beat English to a bloody pulp while he was held at gunpoint. He did everything in his power to keep the two cowboys, that cut up that girl, out of trouble. When Munny was obviously sick as a dog, he beat him and kicked him while on the ground. Morgan freemans character was tortured and eventually killed even though he wasn't the man that killed the kid. Then Bill displayed his dead body on the main square of his town. Munny killed a kid in cold blood for money. Admits to killing women and children in his past. Kills the brothel owner. Hell the head brothel lady is the one that put the hit out that got the two guys killed and all the other gals pitched in money to fund it. Nobody is good and they make that abundantly clear at the end. Munny goes on a killing spree, bill and his gang were partying it up with a corpse of a man he tortured to death right outside. Munny threatens to come back and kill the entire town if his buddy isn't given a proper burial and if the girls aren't treated properly. Its a story of evil triumphs over evil
@@STARSRav3nnope/ he beats Bob because he’s a ruthless assassin, and Ned because Ned is guilty of murder (and because he refuses to reveal the identities of Munny and the Kid). He beats Munny because he knew Munny was in town to assassinate people. He displayed Ned’s body as a warning to other assassins. Literally refuted every point you made. Bill was the closest you get to a good guy, bud, and the film makes it clear in the end that he indeed did not deserve what happened to him.
I never got this film. It's OK. Eastwood dresses up his persona in some Hamlet type role but what is the end but a typical Eastwood violent, mayhem full shootout in which we cheer for the "supposed" sociopath Will Munny to take out the worse sociopath "Little Bill". This became such a hackneyed role for Hackman. For all the bombast, the movie is just full of cliches and of course has to end with the trademark Eastwood bloodbath. Is it viscerally exciting and stir up vengeance feelings? Sure. The anti hero becomes hero How original. A different Western? Not really. a great film. Absolutely not.
@@malachidukes4921 Not really. Eastwood wants it both ways. Munny has done atrocities but all we hear about it is in words. He is framed in the film as troubled but noble, contemplative even philosophical. If we saw him butcher women and children, (or be sociopathic as Madsen was in Reservoir Dogs- a truly disturbing and harrowing scene- and Hackman wasn't such an over the top cartoon sociopath, maybe the film would be painful and disturbing. But you see, then it not be box office, would it? Munny shoots an innocent bartender in cold blood but it occurs with the audience put into a lather by the evil of Little Bill. The gunning down of an unarmed man carries no impact. It's just part of the Eastwood violence ritual, which in proper context is OK (stylized westerns). Americans don't do emotions in depth well at all. Munny is presented as a "black hat" character, but in the film he emotionally really is the opposite. I did not miss Anything.
The last shootout isn’t a typical Eastwood bloodbath. Think back to when LB is talking to Beauchamp about the true nature of violence/gun play and how only a “ Few” dangerous men actually have the aptitude for it and succeed. The ending gunfight brings those words to life. LB stands tall and waits to be gunned down but Munny’s shotgun misfires. Munny takes his time pulling his pistol but everyone is so afraid that they can’t even hit him at close range and he takes his time with his shots just as LB said “ Being a good shot and being quick with a pistol doesn’t do harm but it doesn’t mean much next to be being cool headed”.
@@jackthomas6952 Not a bloodbath? He kills half the room. He kills the innocent bartender for no reason. I don't think any audience ever felt the sociopath that Munny is because Eastwood (who presents him like a Hamlet of the West) sets up the killings as righteous revenge because LB is such a cartoon caricature.
I think the reviewer is mistaken about William Munny having killed women and children in his past. A theme throughout the movie is ‘myth’ and I think these are myths that have grown round him as opposed to truth. There’s a scene around a campfire where Munny apparently recalls one of his darkest deeds with shame and guilt and it’s in relation to shooting a young man in the head for almost no reason when drunk. If Munny had have actually killed women and children, I think that would have probably weighed more heavy on his mind.
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I feel the reason they use the Bill/English scene, is to drive home the fact that Bill is a fairly tyrannical ruler of his town and to set up what's to come when Eastwood and his gang shows up.
Overall its probably not needed for the main plot, but it provides context for the morally grey area of the "good guy"
Disarms a grey haired old man, has him at gunpoint, and still beats him to a pulp.
It kind of sets up the movie to be a very morally grey ending.
Overall great breakdown! Keep it up!
Great point! Thank you for the suggestion man
Ya think? Not too obvious?
Agreed. It is really a vehicle for a character study of Little Bill. But also it brings the mythology of the West into the foreground because English Bill is carrying the writer with him, who otherwise would be there by pure coincidence.
@@jmoountfort5204 It tries to be that but not really. Munny's deepest sociopathic deeds are talked about but never shown Words are empty to convey his atrocities. He is portrayed as a reflective man of depth and introspection. Thus he becomes the hero. Little Bill on the other hand is shown viscerally doing the most cruel atrocities with not an ounce of remorse. Not only does this set up the hatred for LB as the villain, it gives the audience cathartic release in the bloodbath at the end. All this "revisionist" stuff is nonsense. A true revisionist Western would leave us with deep ambiguity. Bonnie and Clyde did that at the end. You are set up to like the robbers, but the film gets darker and darker as the frivolity slips away. Also, the guns end up pointed at YOU. It caused an uproar when released. Here, in Unforgiven, none of that is present. Can't make $$$ that way. Half a loaf here is not better than none. Siskel and Ebert didn't like it all that much either.
I think you are missing the point. Little Bill despises bounty hunters and is very angry at the fact that a bounty was put out by the prostitutes because he knows what kind of people that will draw to his town and he knows it’s gonna be hard to keep law and order with all these hired killers flocking to Big Whiskey. Bill hates Bob because he embodies everything he despises, a hired killer who is nothing but a coward and a back shooter. Bill maybe excessive in his brutality but one thing he is not is a coward.
The thing is everyone thinks they're doing the right thing for the right reasons but nobody is
Why is that, do you think?
@@ericlunger8090 i don't know I give up why is it then
Excellent depiction young man. An eye for detail like yours needs to work in the industry. I think Clint is genius but through hard work and observation. The lighting style in this film is borrowed but needed. Great vid.
Thank you very much Sir
Well done! Love this movie
I think you missed some big elements.
1) Alcohol. Muney makes it clear he was drunk when he did all that killing. It's no coincidence he starts drinking heavy when it's time to kill Little Bill and Slim, and he goes in confident and cold blooded.
2) Little Bill was protecting the ranch hands any way he could, despite what they had done. That was the point of the English Bob story line. When they hear what Bill did to an assassin like Bob, other killers wouldn't head over to big Whisky to do some killing. We even see Bills sadistic side in how he beats Bob, and most of all, Ned. Little Bill wasn't a 'good guy'.
3) Muney was the prostitutes last hope, and he doesn't forget it. His last words are a warning to the towns people to leave them alone and don't cause them any harm, despite already having been paid for killing the ranch hands. A little back story as to why he was so protective of them would have been interesting.
Very good points! Thanks for watching
Alcohol didn't make him evil. He was always the reaper. Run and hide all he could but his penance was knowing who he was/is. The "they put a sign on him?!" lit the fuse, he drank the whiskey because he was thirsty 😊
@@MrMice...I've never heard that perspective before about this movie, but it is a great one.
I disagree I don’t think LB was particularly a bad guy. He was simply trying to keep peace in his town and town sheriffs during this time period would only tell you once and if you didn’t comply you would be very sorry.
I liked the movie. Some other greats for me are the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns, particularly The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, and Once Upon a Time in the West. The Ennio Morricone soundtracks were a huge plus.
Definitely. One of my favorites is actually, For a Few Dollars More. I like it more than the other two for some reason lol
@@filmreview4604 Yes, enjoyed it. I have all three of the "dollars trilogy," just watched For a Few Dollars More again recently.
Ennio also did alot of music in Metal Gear Solid 4 and its absolutely amazing
Those films made no pretenses. Leone did steal Fistful of Dollars from Kurosawa's "Yojimbo", almost scene for scene.
Another film not mentioned much, possibly under-rated, is McCabe & Mrs. Miller. It won some awards tho...
How do you not have more subscribers? Very good review.
Thank you! I appreciate you watching
Some people are just plain dumb and stupid
This is without doubt my favourite western. I myself really liked the idea of English Bob because he optimises the myth of the romantic Wild West. It’s all a lie. Just as the true Wild West was an era of violent, merciless ethos of kill or be killed. Behind English Bobs seemingly heroic demeanour is a cowardly drunk who killed a wounded man in cold blood simply out of petty jealousy. When we’re first introduced to him, English Bob speaks in Received Pronunciation. Upholding his facade of an honourable, heroic, elegant gentleman. But as soon as he’s rattled, he reverts back to a thick cockney accent. This demonstrates the genius of Clint Eastwoods writing. Everything about English Bob is a lie. His demeanour, his heroism, his exploits, even his accent. All false.
I agree the EB character is so important to the story.
Excellent video. This is one of my all-time favorite movies.
Thanks for watching!
That one line 'its a hell of a thing killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever he's ever gonna have' sums up the philosophy of Munny
Such a great line
Oh no no no no…..I don’t agree with you at all about English Bob. I feel that character was invaluable to a story that strips away western myth. I thought the writing of that character was absolutely brilliant in that of a man trying to make himself a heroic figure when in fact he is nothing but a back shooting coward. I thought it was brilliant to have sequences where Little Bill absolutely destroys him physically with a savage beating and then destroys his pride with the truth about him to Mr. Beauchamp who is Bob’s “ biographer”.
That's a very good point
@@filmreview4604 I was about to say the same thing. Bob is portraying himself to be a great gun fighter, to his tag-along writer. The scene of him being ridden out of town holding his bent pistols, was like a showing that he wasn't all that. Achilles had been exposed.
I agree, I think the film would feel like it was missing something essential if you took English Bob out of it, in terms of defining the character of Little BIll and characterising the theme of ‘myth’ in the West.
Side note: It's Mizouree not Mizourah....thanks fer settling this Clint!
The Ken Watanabe remake of Unforgiven, set in Hokkido. Is a superb remake. Definitely, worth watching.
I'll have to check that out
@@filmreview4604 I think it was on Amazon Prime.
The movie contrasts the typical "western" that portrays "The Wild West" . . .THAT NEVER WAS.
Duck I says.
Cool, Hard, tuff movie and when the people took the law in their own hands and justice and wanted better life to their children etc.. But very good movie too like.
I wonder if little bill have whipped those cowboys would have not got the bounty on the cowboys?
PEAKY BLINDERS!
👍🏻😐
This spews the same nonsense narrative about the film that celebrates the bad guy (Munny) and completely misses that Little Bill is the good guy.
I think the point is that there aren't any "good guys" in this story
Little Bill isn't the good guy either. He's a tyrannical ruler that mercilessly beats those he doesn't like.
He disarmed and proceeded to beat English to a bloody pulp while he was held at gunpoint.
He did everything in his power to keep the two cowboys, that cut up that girl, out of trouble.
When Munny was obviously sick as a dog, he beat him and kicked him while on the ground.
Morgan freemans character was tortured and eventually killed even though he wasn't the man that killed the kid. Then Bill displayed his dead body on the main square of his town.
Munny killed a kid in cold blood for money.
Admits to killing women and children in his past.
Kills the brothel owner.
Hell the head brothel lady is the one that put the hit out that got the two guys killed and all the other gals pitched in money to fund it.
Nobody is good and they make that abundantly clear at the end. Munny goes on a killing spree, bill and his gang were partying it up with a corpse of a man he tortured to death right outside. Munny threatens to come back and kill the entire town if his buddy isn't given a proper burial and if the girls aren't treated properly.
Its a story of evil triumphs over evil
@@filmreview4604Little Bill is the closest you get to a good guy in the film.
@@STARSRav3nnope/ he beats Bob because he’s a ruthless assassin, and Ned because Ned is guilty of murder (and because he refuses to reveal the identities of Munny and the Kid). He beats Munny because he knew Munny was in town to assassinate people. He displayed Ned’s body as a warning to other assassins.
Literally refuted every point you made. Bill was the closest you get to a good guy, bud, and the film makes it clear in the end that he indeed did not deserve what happened to him.
Deserve got nothin to do with it.
Its like watching paint dry.
Its piss poor and boring.
Lol ok
Don’t worry I’m sure another fast and furious will be out soon enough for you
Subtly is something smooth brains can't comprehend when it's not blatantly told or shown to them
Go watch more Marvel or DC junk. Adults are talking here.
Love this breakdown, I totally share your feelings about the scene where they kill the first cowboy
Thank you! Yeah that was rough
I never got this film. It's OK. Eastwood dresses up his persona in some Hamlet type role but what is the end but a typical Eastwood violent, mayhem full shootout in which we cheer for the "supposed" sociopath Will Munny to take out the worse sociopath "Little Bill". This became such a hackneyed role for Hackman. For all the bombast, the movie is just full of cliches and of course has to end with the trademark Eastwood bloodbath. Is it viscerally exciting and stir up vengeance feelings? Sure. The anti hero becomes hero How original. A different Western? Not really. a great film. Absolutely not.
ha!
Someone missed the point😂😂😂
@@malachidukes4921 Not really. Eastwood wants it both ways. Munny has done atrocities but all we hear about it is in words. He is framed in the film as troubled but noble, contemplative even philosophical. If we saw him butcher women and children, (or be sociopathic as Madsen was in Reservoir Dogs- a truly disturbing and harrowing scene- and Hackman wasn't such an over the top cartoon sociopath, maybe the film would be painful and disturbing. But you see, then it not be box office, would it? Munny shoots an innocent bartender in cold blood but it occurs with the audience put into a lather by the evil of Little Bill. The gunning down of an unarmed man carries no impact. It's just part of the Eastwood violence ritual, which in proper context is OK (stylized westerns). Americans don't do emotions in depth well at all. Munny is presented as a "black hat" character, but in the film he emotionally really is the opposite. I did not miss Anything.
The last shootout isn’t a typical Eastwood bloodbath. Think back to when LB is talking to Beauchamp about the true nature of violence/gun play and how only a “ Few” dangerous men actually have the aptitude for it and succeed. The ending gunfight brings those words to life. LB stands tall and waits to be gunned down but Munny’s shotgun misfires. Munny takes his time pulling his pistol but everyone is so afraid that they can’t even hit him at close range and he takes his time with his shots just as LB said “ Being a good shot and being quick with a pistol doesn’t do harm but it doesn’t mean much next to be being cool headed”.
@@jackthomas6952 Not a bloodbath? He kills half the room. He kills the innocent bartender for no reason. I don't think any audience ever felt the sociopath that Munny is because Eastwood (who presents him like a Hamlet of the West) sets up the killings as righteous revenge because LB is such a cartoon caricature.
I think the reviewer is mistaken about William Munny having killed women and children in his past. A theme throughout the movie is ‘myth’ and I think these are myths that have grown round him as opposed to truth. There’s a scene around a campfire where Munny apparently recalls one of his darkest deeds with shame and guilt and it’s in relation to shooting a young man in the head for almost no reason when drunk. If Munny had have actually killed women and children, I think that would have probably weighed more heavy on his mind.
Yes I mightve been mistaken about that. Thanks for watching!
@@filmreview4604 great video though for a big Unforgiven fan, thank you
This is one of my favorite movie.