The Great AEW Lie You Need To Stop Telling
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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Simon Miller brings you a RUclips channel where you will learn about THE TRUTH when it comes to fitness, the gym and working out. Along the way you may also get some wrestling, vlogs, mental health, video games, reactions, music and movie chat. You just never know... Designed to give you a look into the brain of Simon Miller - who is also a feature over on WhatCulture Wrestling where he hosts Ups and Downs as well as the Why series - give the channel a subscribe if you just want a daily dose of fitness, nonsense and entertainment.
4k in an arena is embarrassing
With the amount of money AEW spends, 4k people is bad.
Somebody tell Tony Khan about budget cuts
I dont know why aew just don't go to 5k capacity arenas, it would be cheaper and look better on tv.
I assume you meant 5k but yeah, agreed and hopefully they course correct on that heading forward. I think too many big arenas were likely booked in advance
@@Halfaxa7That is exactly what it is. They over estimated and therefore booked larger arenas and those agreements are normally made months in advance. Tv tapings don't have the same draw as they once did as it's free on TV and people are having hard times.
@@tiny989Khans ego won't allow it
I assume it's because TKs family invested a lot and they want to see a profit.
So they can say they ran a show there 😅😂
Me as a TNA fan shrugging when people talk about size of crowds for AEW or WWE and then going back to watching the awesome stuff TNA have going on.
TNA should’ve died 10 years ago ya mook😒
TNA has been kicking ass recently.
Tell me youre a legitimate Prowrestling fan without telling me youre a legitimate fan. 👊🏼👊🏼
@@anthonylucero6650 you really need so much attention that you comment on multiple threads just whining about shit? get over yourself.
I have good feelings about the reborn TNA. They will be OK.
The target center has a capacity of 20,000. They got rid of 4700 tickets on a set up of 4900.
That's not good. They're doing shows in arenas that are a fourth full. It looks terrible.
There isn't anything wrong with my eyes, the arena's are half empty. This is some mark excuse shit
Dude, 4k in a 15-20k arena isn't good, no matter how you spin it.
While I agree 4k out of 15k doesn't look great, but the point is selling 4k tickets on its own is pretty good. Now did AEW overshoot? Yes but it happens even WWE f' up from time to time. Solution? AEW just need to book smaller arenas (4k in a 6k building looks better on TV) for their regular TV shows & book the bigger arenas for PPV's (FYI not hating AEW but having the 10k arenas for PPV's will make them feel special compared to normal TV shows).
Exactly
@@amadhatter3280yeah but if you are selling 4k in a 15k building you are screwing yourself on the cost of renting that 15k building. There are no upsides to running that bigger building in this situation.
@knection1986 agreed. It makes no sense and I can't see how that would be entertaining for the fans either. Your living a lie and if you went to these shows as a normal fan this isn't going to draw you in. There no pomp to it. Saying that though aew price casuals out anyway.
Besides if people can't go because they size down, people might want to go more. Then they can size up again. They need to book significantly better too, I dont get why aew seems to hate the the idea of drawing in fans and casuals.
@@amadhatter3280They already are booking smaller venues and for some reason still charge premium prices. I'll give an example. They did a show in Philly this past October which is a very big city for pro wrestling. The arena they booked was the Liacouras Center and they sold roughly 4.4k tickets. For anyone unfamiliar with Philly, the Liacouras Center is Temple University's arena and has a 10k seating capacity. The premiere arena in Philly is the Wells Fargo Center which seats 21k people. That is where WWE always hosts Raw & Smackdown.
AEW's face value ticket prices that night were similar to WWE's for Raw is XXX in Philly this past January. That's pretty damn outrageous. No rational company should be charging premium fees for a less than premium show hosted in a less than premium arena. They tried to do it in a city known for its strong pro wrestling fanbase and couldn't even crack half of the capacity. Shocker. Most people here weren't willing to waste their money.
WWE books the same type of arenas for their house shows which have outsold AEW's televised shows several times this year. This is all during a time where the industry has been surging with popularity. There is no way to defend that amount of failure. At this point I honestly think AEW would be better off just returning to Daily's Place for everything except PLE's.
I agree. I think it's partially Khan's fault for constantly positioning AEW vs WWE. AEW should focus on being the craft brew of wrestling. Smaller arenas, fans losing their mind, like a new, more successful ECW. Grow more organically, instead of forcing it.
Hasn't ECW already proven that the "ECW approach" doesn't work?
This
Second this. The craft beer analogy fits.
A mark like Tony could never do craft beer in wrestling
More like some random basement piss beer with a razor blade inside the bottle😂😂😂
@@carloscjr23🤫Crack a Budweiser and watch the Samoan Soap Opera.
Simon did you call out this type of behavior when Whatculture used to put out videos about WWEs low attendance a few years back?
He absolutely DID NOT 😂 and it's the reason I unsubscribed from that channel
@@camron147aew is very special to these old marks ...they feel responsible for it's alleged success and creation and that's why they take it so personally if u criticize aew
What exactly is the false narrative? AEW fan attendance and TV ratings are both down. Showing "the other side of the arena" doesn't prove anything despite what Simon says. It's still a half empty arena.
Let's hope AEW can recover from this because without AEW we know WWE will get lazy again (A strong AEW means a stronger WWE product & vice versa), if WWE can recover from their low attendance's & viewing numbers so can AEW .
I took a long break from watching wrestling and I've been really grateful for AEW allowing me to watch people that I missed in there WWE days. Like Bryan Danielson, Samoa Joe, Swerve, Adam Cole, Jon Moxley. So Many I was first introduced to this year and went on to find out about their runs in WWE. I'm grateful that on top of enjoying WWE for the last 8 months of being back into it. I've got to see a bit of what I missed. Anyway Simon you the best as well
I left aew when cody left and really left when punk left. I like Kevin Kelly, scvonnie and Of course Ross. But their matches are sloppy not matwork. Thought we woukd get a Wrestling Co. Lke nwa. But its like wwf light. All these silky woke selfish jerks. I don't know. FTR is good Sting is good. I Like Chr istian a LOT. Just.so many giys there one week gone the next. 3 shows too much. Too many guys that are littke boring. Wear proper trunks please.
You are right. 4-5k ppl for a show isn't bad, BUT when you are running an arena that sits 10-18k and you only get 4-5k, that's not great. TK needs to start getting smaller arenas, but that's just my opinion.
Does nobody remember WWE's black-sheets era? Most of the arena was covered up to hide empty seats. It happens.
Aew does need a MUCH more cohesive profuct, though. Its very niche, very much a "if you know you know" secret club. Its hard to get into & the humour level isnt there.
It almost feels like because the wrestling business is booming so much, people forgot about those like 2010-2019 days and especially the later years and how much it felt deflated and there was no hope. I also still remind people that AEW is 4 almost 5 years old. Not 20+ , for them to be able to maintain the ticket sales they do is still a success. You won't sell out every TV taping, but fans are buying, fans are coming and fans are engaging, so I don't understand the obsession with a single photo of how many people were at a given show. Did they have fun? Did AEW put on a good show? Awesome, then anything else doesn't really matter
Exactly. We aren't share holders nor we are tv executives. I don't care about ratings and attendance.
The problem is that AEW's viewership hasn't been growing. Their ratings normally can't break 900k. I don't expect them to improve because AEW refuses to cater to anyone outside of the hardcore fans who are willing to watch other non-WWE promotions weekly and follow backstage news.
@anonymous_5016 At this point i feel like they're happy where they're at and don't wanna upset the applecart. Shame. Too much friendship bs and not enough people that just wanna do business and make money.
@@anonymous_5016 Why must they increases if what's tuning in now is supplying them with enough? There's nothing magical they can do to attract more people, but they can make sure the people who tune-in are satisfied and wanting to buy tickets. I don't know why fans would give two fucks about what ratings it had or how many people watched .Did you tune in? Did you enjoy your time? Sweet, see you on Saturday. You aren't the suits, let the corpo deal with the numbers and you just be a fan.
@@anonymous_5016 We're not execs or shareholders, we're consumers. Sales, attendances, and ratings, affect our lives or enjoyment of the product not one infinitesimal iota.
Do you enjoy a can of coke less if the Coca-Cola corporation has a rough quarter and doesn't meet growth targets? Do you engage in concern trolling on forums and RUclips arguing about the profitability of Pepsi? I'm guessing no. Because that'd just be stupid, right?
AEW is still good to me, so...
Who.
The fuck.
Cares.
About.
Ratings.
This perspective is spot on! Why are people so upset with an alternative! We said right at the beginning of AEW that a new company would only make WWE better and force them to up their game. And that's exactly what happened!
Not upset with an alternative we just can't stand the aew fans. I like aew I wish they told better stories but still enjoy it. The fans ruin the experience by being toxic. They think anything bad said about aew has to be a aew hater or a bot. Even the owner thinks that and yea Tony is a big reason we don't get along. He argues on Twitter with random ppl if they don't say they love aew. Calling ppl bald assholes. Imagine if Vince behaved like that? Wwe is professional and organized aew is just anarchy masquerading as art. You could put two pieces of cat turds in the ring and the fans would chant this is awesome and holy s***. If Tony stopped writing and booking n if they ever wrote stories that made me care about the wrestlers I'd probably be way more invested than I am now. I know its a lot to take in but aew fans are a lot to take in so it's fitting
yup & it was sink or swim for AEW & Tony Khan sank his ship
@@Unethical_Ethical_HackTips….and you didn’t see the issue with anything you said there? I don’t think the Aew fans are the problem…it might be you angry at fans being fans Lol
Heck nah. Did you not see the raw after mania this year?? I was there live and it was a waste of money thanks to old man Vince.
@@Unethical_Ethical_HackTipsI mean I come as a AEW humble fan but I barely see any toxic AEW fans bashing anyone in the comments section And even though if they do bash them is for a good reason because it'd be something stupid childish WWE fans look at the product say something like oh they buried such and such oh how come he couldn't get a title even tho we have 10 wrestlers in front of the line they can't wait patiently for them to be build up, Oh such and such has been out for days or whatever even though wrestler's be injured, It's always negative every time when a WWE fans talk out their ass out of their mouth what are you talking about? I'm never going to get it I'm never going to understand it
Almost nothing makes sense in AEW. Everyone does so many high spots and its getting ridiculous. None of those guys are going to last 10 years. Everything seems rushed and its such a shame.
Turn it off and watch another product. I remember people doing this long time ago.
AEW had a massive opportunity to be a serious mainstream alternative for disenchanted WWE fans. Instead, they've confirmed themselves as being for niche audiences and will never grow further, with the opposition slowly winning fans back.
Came to my hometown sold 2,400 in a 20,000 seat arena.. THATS EMPTY. Video over I don’t get it 😂
The problem isn't their numbers. The problem is AEW thinking they are bigger than they actually are. Nothing wrong with a 5K-6K seat stadium. Intimate setting, the crowd is louder, and the show looks like a bigger deal because every seat is taken.
The problem is:
Yesterday they (nearly) sold out Wembley, and today they sell out no Bingo hall.
@@cumexolaf3276 they nearly sold out the 40K seats they made available. They didn't sell out the entire 80-90K seats that the stadium can hold. I wish they were better, but the fact is that they are bush league compared to the WWE. If the fed held Mania at Wembley, they would sell at least 80K seats for both nights.
I honestly think AEW could be on WWE's level if TK hired people who know what they are doing and they stopped trying to compete with WWE for 5-10yrs so they can figure out how to make themselves more appealing to a wider audience. Right now the WWE is the NFL and AEW is the CFL.
@@PontiacBandit902 I think they both suck. I'm done with WWE for a long time now, and I finally gave up on AEW this year.
problem is their slow clapping gate keeping white knighting beta male fan base
@@PontiacBandit902 I was there, they sold 72-74K tickets as per Wembley themselves who released the gate number.
WWE was really struggling for attendance just 4 or 5 years ago, they were barely half-filling a lot of arenas, but I was enjoying what they were doing for the most part before they started releasing dozens of wrestlers for no reason.
This didn't finish WWE, neither did Covid, and they recovered to be very successful now.
I love AEW and have all through their existence, but let's not forget that the first 6 months before the pandemic, they tended to run small arenas with a couple of exceptions.
Why not try to book bigger arenas and see where it takes you? It's not super successful at the moment, but the last few weeks of TV seem to be pretty well attended with loud crowds.
AEW will be fine, it just needs to figure out it's identity and in my opinion shrink the roster down a bit. Also there's nothing wrong with reducing ticket prices. I'd rather see cheaper tickets resulting in full arenas...
As a fan of wrestling for 24 years I'm just happy that there are two great mainstream companies in the sport once again, both are doing well and gaining fans all the time.
Aew is a sinking ship. *mic drop*
The big difference is that the entirety of wrestling media wasn't breaking their backs to spin wwe's low attendance into some kind of positive.
Everyone has been pretty frank about wwe's faults and they're actively improving the product and their the hottest they've been in a while.
No on wants to be negative about aew for some reason. They're shiws are mostly empty and they're ratings aren't good. They still haven't secured a tv deal, and it is estimated (because they're financials are private) that they'll have lost iver $34 million this year.
A lot of us really wanted aew to succeed, but tony is unwilling to course correct. They can do shows forever because tony can just get more money from his dad, but they're going to lose tv if they don't make some changes.
The iwc should be worried about this because it will negatively affect all of their favorite wrestlers infinitely more than it will tony.
Shame on simon for trying to run cover.
@alexs7670 Nobody was being positive when some WWE TV attendances were lower than 3,000. Every other video was doom and gloom, and AEW didn't even exist back then. I certainly didn't want WWE to fail, because frankly why would you?
I'm sure some were defending WWE then, as some, but certainly a minority, are defending AEW now.
Maybe people are defending AEW because they enjoy it. I certainly do. Like I said, it's far from perfect but for me it's still very good wrestling TV and I'm thankful they are here.
@@TheAWShowUK my point is that if you like aew and want it to stay on tv you can't pretend they aren't struggling.
@alexs7670 No I think that's fair, they are struggling a bit, but let's see what comes of this devil story and see if stuff picks up.
The wrestling is still very good, it's not all doom and gloom
It isnt a false narrative. They cant fill half a stadium anymore
A long time ago I went to WWE Stomping Grounds. Wow, that was a empty arena. The WWE gave away a lot of tickets and it didn't make any difference. That wasn't the end of the WWE. The same goes with AEW. Low ticket sales are embarrassing but they are not necessarily the end of the world.
Screw AEW😒
I mean….a ton of context is missing but cool.
@@andrewbristow2817I was about to say 😭
I mean... it's WWE, they can afford that and much more. Meanwhile AEW can't make this kind of concessions seeing their high level production and the money they are giving to the wrestlers. It makes me recall WCW on this matter.
@@alexschwallz1954 AEW can make those concessions. It boils down to leadership and decision making.
I appreciate you saying this in plain language, because it's the truth. AEW is far from "perfect", but the idea that "ha ha look at them with the portion of the arena they cordoned off being empty, they are awful" is not a great take.
I've been at WWE shows where the exact same thing has happened. I've had to be moved out of a cordoned off area because my original seats were now under a tarp and behind a curtain.
Vince McMahon has had 40+ years to build his empire, and Tony Khan has just hit the 4-year mark of AEW. Of course they aren't "on the same level", because Vince has had literally two generations to get where he's at, and that's after the successes of the WWWF and all the smaller indie promotions the WWF subsumed back in the day.
I like both, I watch both. The idea of people having to pick a team and thus berate "the other side" is an exercise in self-satisfaction and nothing more.
Watch and Enjoy All The Wrasslin'. That's all that needs to be said, really.
+15 point for “subsumed”
Except Vince didn't start working big arenas. He grew into those as well. AEW is trying to do everything in a bigger arena. They try so hard to be WWE as far as commercially (ie video games) they just don't have the management, infrastructure, talent, or audience yet. But Tony is trying to force it overnight. Too big, too fast, always fails.
The truth is this brand is not attracting new fans and is only catering to the same group of people. If Tony was not the son of a billionaire they would not be mentioned in the same breath as WWE. The people that started the brand did not want to listen to established fans that have drawn money, hence they are not going to grow. Mickey doesn’t draw, Omega doesn’t draw, and the Bucks do not draw. This is a business, not a locker room popularity contest!
@anthonynelson2267 Bro, I literally only started watching on a whim a few months ago, and I am "All In". I've introduced family to it as well, and they dig it.
WWE has run the same Bloodline and Judgment Day stories for most of this year, over, and over again. I've skipped some of their programming because I was not interested in another JD vs CR/SZ/KO/SR match. I haven't missed a single AEW program since I started watching.
Again, I think there are plenty of legitimate criticisms to offer up, but the idea that they aren't attracting new fans is just factually not accurate.
@valorjoz I hear you. I too skip several episodes of WWE and enjoy that I can catch the storyline with ease. Also, I grew up with the Horseman, Freebirds and the Von Erich’s, and even Paul E Dangerously’s Dangerous Alliance, so those groups would keep everything moving, which I believe is still happening in WWE. The Bloodline had a nice long build before taking a loss, and the Judgement Day is the main faction on Raw. Also, the old school wrestling fan in me struggles to watch this program. Too much choreographed moves, not very realistic, and too many matches that are made for only one set of fans.
I respect where you are coming from because you were looking for something new. If you dig it then I say that’s great. I don’t dig the blood and gore (not just the unrealistic Swerve and Hangman match), how often people end up bleeding (Moxley) and the no selling of anything. Ok the other hand I like guys on the show and feel as though they are miss used all the time.
I want to like the product but their misuse of wrestlers make the program hard to watch. They have mishandled Wardlow, Power House Hobbs, Keith Lee, and too many others. They have too many crayons in their box to only use one color.
I saw Collision at Van Andel Arena in GR, MI. It did around 4,000 peeps in a 10k+ arena. Great show, but the crowed was off. They need to do massively smaller arenas. It that same show with the same attendence had been done at a 5k arena, it would have been one of the most hyped events i ever saw
I went to an AEW taping in a smaller arena this year. It looked packed and everyone there was stoked for the show. One of the most fun live pro wrestling experiences I've had. I can imagine, having that same amount of fans in a larger arena could suck the wind outta everyone's sails.
Which arena were you at?
Which arena and what town?
such a mark take. we get it they let u be in some segments in london.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. Seeing these kinds of posts makes me disappointed that we came back to "my thing good, your thing bad" mentality.
we had a time without? where was i?
@@LHotdog-ni6hf good point
Yeah, I hate going on IG checking out highlight clips of either AEW or WWE and neither people of the comments can’t shut up about the other unprovoked. Do wrestling fans know they’re allowed to enjoy both shows? Lol
4k for a wrestling show ISN'T a good thing if you book an arena that holds 20k. Thats the problem, they're trying to be bigger than they are and it makes it look bad and is also a waste of money.
Thanks for offering this perspective, Simon. The tribalism to me is so silly. I love pro wrestling and more of it from all over never seems a bad thing. I applaud the competition as it’ll push everyone to be even better. Yes, AEW is in a bit of a slump, but that will happen with anything. I’m overjoyed to have so much great wrestling to enjoy.
The problem is AEW is following the same trajectory as the others, and we might see it nose dive here soon if TK can't get shit together.
If you look at the past year in viewer ship, it's been steadily dropping. Yes there are spikes but they themselves also become less and less.
If AEW can't get those numbers up in the next year or so, I fear it'll be the beginning of the end. Sure it may stick around for another few years but at that point it'll turn into obscurity like TNA, ROH, and the 30 others I can't be bothered to remember.
AEW won't be worth watching until Khan admits that he is not a good booker and no one wants to see an entire roster full of spot monkeys whose props get a bigger reaction from the crowd than they do.
Omega and the Bucks aren't ever going to be stars in the US. Get rid of them. Cassidy is a clown, get rid of him. Eddie Kingston looks like a recently divorced taxi driver, get rid of him.
Stop relying on 50+ year olds to draw and spend more time building young talent that actually look like stars (get rid of Darby and Jack).
They have some major problems but it is all fixable. Khan just needs to grow a pair and concede that he doesn't really know what he's doing. WWE are killing it, they were destroying AEW before they got AEWs biggest draw ever back. If AEW want to compete, doing the same shit every week is never going to work.
@SandraHolland-fv1gc Whether you like Punk or not, he is a massive star.
I've never really been a fan of Punk but there is no denying that he is super over and I am interested to see how he'll fit in. I'm hoping that he'll teach Rollins how to sell!
@@jamesedmonds7519Just shut up.
Khan and his fans have really contributed to the so called tribalism
I don’t think the point of the picture is to say no one is there but to say aew is saying they are selling out shows but half the arena is empty 🤷🏽♂️
But do they consistently say they sell out every show? Is that just something TK said on a couple media scrums where it was accurate?
They never say a place is sold out unless it's sold out.
WWE not having a crowd is different from AEW not having one.
I really like the product that AEW presents. But I also think they need to know that they can do venues like Wembley (& have massive success) but also work smaller arenas for television. Pack in 5000 into a smaller venue and the energy is a lot hotter than having whole areas blocked off.
They average 7000, less money for them.
I've been to live events for both companies in the last few years and I've taken away a few things from them (remember, just the ones that I've seen in person). 1. WWE crowds are much bigger, but it's a much more tepid audience. Lots of moms with little kids. Some cheering and clapping, but not a really hot crowd. AEW crowds are generally half of an arena, but it's very engaged. Tons of noise. Tons of crowd reaction. Everyone seeming to really be into it. And 2: The WWE house show ended with a good guy win that send everyone home happy enough. And the PLE ended with everyone bummed out and annoyed. Two of my three kids stopped watching WWE entirely after the event because the ending was so poor. (The unexplained rope break that cost The Demon the match at Extreme Rules). However, all three AEW shows sent everyone home happy and excited and left us all talking about it for days. Even if the Face didn't win, the show ended with something exciting.
I'm happy AEW exists, because I personally cannot spend another second of my life snoozing through the Bloodline stuff. Maybe when they take the belt of Roman in 2048 I'll give WWE a try again.
This is the best thing i've ever read
Why is it negative to post a factual picture of something that happened and how can a picture of a real life event be a narrative? Also why would you post a picture of camera side wrestling fans saw it when they watched dynamite
The only people that should care about ratings or attendance are AEW themselves. As fans, we shouldn't be concerned with silly stuff like that. Every time I've been to a an AEW show, the crowd was always full and its always a hot crowd. I just want to see pro wrestling with a group of fun people and AEW always delivers
They should do smaller arenas again. It creates a better atmosphere. It gets boring when one goes to a show/concert if the place is 30% full.
I agree completely, my interests in wrestling do not include attendance or viewers among the companies.
Where was this energy when whatculture used to make WWE attendance videos? 😂
It is possible to love star trek and star wars at the same time. It is also possible to love wwe and aew at the same time. I'll never understand why some in Fandom insist that to be an implausible reality ...
@LynIs: "The Gamesters of Triskelion" Episode of "Star Trek" almost predicted the emergence of UFC and MMA in a technical sense even though with Roman Coliseum style Gladiatorial Weapons. The REAL Roman Reign! Sorry couldn't resist.😂😏🎤🛸🤼♂️B.W.
@@madbrowniac7871 🤣🤣🤣
I was at a Dynamite show that had approximately 5k people and all people would say was how loud we were. It's not the amount of people it's the energy. Aew doesn't use canned reactions
Majority stayed for ROH taping and TK came out and thanked us 3 times and promised they'd be back to Portland many more times in the future
That is good from a sentimental point of view and it's great that the crowds are eating it up, but would it not be wiser to book a slightly smaller venue so that the same energetic crowd is in a sold out building instead? I'd say there is also the issue of money, but let's face it, it isn't really there as a business when reality is it's Tony Khan's trust fund being spent on real life action figures to play with.
Simon please stop, 4,000 people in 20,000 Arena is pathetic visual
If u watch it on TV, it looks full...the point is to make television look great and aew and wwe makes it look great
My best friend has been a fan since May (thanks to meeee) and when i told her about the deathmatch….she was hyped and watched it so intently. Then told me “they dont do this in that wwe stuff thats why i connect more with aew” and that reminded me how great it is we have do many choices!! I love it all!
Every fed has its flaws, but my god why can't we appreciate that wrestling is hot, that these men and women have multiple options, can use these feds against each other to make more money(because everyone's body only has so many bumps), and let's have actual discourse that hopefully improves the product overall.
That would be nice. Agree. I don't enjoy watching WWE but that is a me problem and less to do with an actual lack of quality. I'm just happy there is more money to go around for everyone.
We focus on attendance because that is one of the major barometers on how healthy a wrestling promotion is. Yes, it's true that the gate isn't as important to the bottom line of a promotion as it used to be, but it still is important and more importantly it indicates how much fans are invested in a product. If you aren't selling out your shows, then people don't care *enough* about the product to come to the show. It's not a WWE vs AEW thing. It's a business thing.
Edit: Additionally, was the wrestle tix number "sold" or "distributed"? Because distributed includes comp ticket given away and isn't indicitivate of the number of people who paid to see the product.
People who want AEW to stick around should absolutely care about ticket and PPV sales. WCW stopped existing as soon as it went through a down period and it did have better attendance that AEW does now (aside from the Wembley shows).
Here a hint for those who stumble on this- when anyone behind a keyboard refers to wrestling as 'the product' -ignore that person.
@@rdrouynriv to be fair wcw was also paying people ridic amounts of money too which isn't happening in aew. aew will be fine the only way something happens is if they lose the tv show
@@rongill1234 How do you know that? Do you think reserving those big stadiums is free? Tony is paying his wrestlers handsomely too.
@@rdrouynrivbro they lost their TV deal and died because WCW was horseshit and you if you try to compare late WCW to AEW then you clearly haven't watched either or both properly. Jesus internet marks are genuinely insane. Keep being cool guys you're totally not all losers. And maybe watch this video and learn from it
Momentum is a hell of a thing. AEW had it for a while, but they’ve lost it at the moment. Smaller crowds doesn’t immediately spell doom, but having to keep all of your camera angles to one side of the arena also isn’t a GREAT sign. There’s something to be said for far out shots of a massive crowd in an entire arena that adds to the atmosphere significantly. When you can’t do that, it feels smaller.
Should everyone else care that much about this? Not really. But Tony should and try and figure out why, because this is his business.
I'm a positivity person as well, law of attraction all the way. Throwing on my analytics hat for a second (I've worked as a SVP of Analytics for a fortune 10 company for over 15 years) the average cost of a 20k seat arena is around $20k to rent. If we're saying that they sold 4500 tickets that should bring in around $90k. Assuming they booked 20 wrestlers for the show and their annual salary is $100k then the cost of talent is $5k. The question here would be the production costs which could be up to $150k. If tickets were the only source of revenue then yeah AEW is operating in the red by quite a bit here. However they signed a 4 year advertising deal that works out to $45m a year, so divide that by 52 shows and they're making $800k for each show. Even if literally no one showed up at the show they'd be turning a profit based on that.
Salaries are wayyyy more than 100k, not to mention all wrestlers are getting paid whether theyre there or not.
@mgersey82 hey there, I was trying to do an average between the millionaires and the guys making $20k per year. If you have the numbers though I'll definitely update the estimate
not to mention TK could literally afford to run AEW in the red for 100 years and still be rich AF as long as his football franchise and his.... well other football franchise do well which they always will probably. Last I heard they were doing 100 mil a year all together for AEW so its not like hes running it in the red now
@christopherdoroba8724 plus his Dad is worth 11 billion, which means if they literally had no income coming in ever and lost every penny they spent in AEW at 100 million a year it would take over 100 years to run out of money
There are a few issues that need to be addressed.
1. That side with no fans is who the wrestlers are addressing their promos. So I paid my hard earned money to see the wrestlers back and them perform to the side of the building with no one. The paying customer is a prop.
2. Because the buildings are far too big the ticket prices are far too high. Book smaller buildings.
3. I want full buildings so TK can stop talking about Wembley.
Agree with the promo portion the stadium we went to didn't have monitors so we couldn't even watch the talent on the screen LOL
Let’s be realistic, AEW won’t be a thing in 5 years.
4,000 tickets isn’t enough to pay these guys’ salaries.
In terms of social media/toxic fandom of All things nowadays a wise man once said this: cannot play with them, cannot win with them, cannot coach with them, just can't do it
I have to just take a note of saying that the whole AEW vs WWE rivalry has been perpetuated by two main contributors, Dave Meltzer and The Elite. Consistent gas lighting of a promotion and let's be honest tactical politics that use the fan base as a weapon has lead to AEW suffering and WWE thriving. I get your point for a wrestling show selling 4k seats is actually a good number and I would agree, if that wasn't the result of hundreds of millions of dollars being spent and it going from 10k seats to 4k seats. Tony Khan needs to take the back seat, put someone in charge that knows what they are doing and support them, because let's be honest, he hasn't been supported by his EVP's in his business.
Get a grip, Vincel.
@@Deadguy2322forreal how's your day going buddy? I hope it's filled with joy 😊
Trolls like you are the main driver of tribalism. At least be honest.
Agree 100 percent ...t
Re: Wembley - it took them a few months to hit their final total, so the fact that they’re almost halfway there almost a year out is incredible for an non-WWE event!
4K in a 15K arena? Nah fam.
The issue is that there aren't that many 3-6k seat arenas to book events in. So, they're booking the same venues that WWE do, the 10-15k seat arenas while not being able to fill them. What it does let them do is put more people in the better seats and keep the hard camera area empty. But the problem is that AEW's target demo is Gen Z and Millennials, and guess who is getting absolutely hammered by the greedflation? Those 2 age groups. I mean honestly, the prices of the tickets plus the Ticketmaster rip-off fees mean I'd never go to a regular TV taping even if I had a billion dollars. TV is just better than dropping $100 for a ticket plus driving there and back. But I have a friend who has 2 sons, and he's gone with them to 2 WWE shows in the area in the last month. But he's got kids so it is their entertainment budget he's using. That's why WWE went kid-friendly 2 decades ago. If little Johnny wants to go to a WWE show, well then they'll go to the show. If you're 30 and single or married without kids, you're going to use your entertainment budget, if you can have one in this greedflation economy, very differently. I mean Disney told everyone to buy Disney+ to watch their stuff, and now, they can't get anyone to go see Disney movies in theaters. It's hard when every single corporation is lining up to get your first dollar if you happen to be at the end of the line.
Not sure what prices you're looking at but I got a wrestlmania ticket for 185. Yea it's upper deck but if I can get an upper deck ticket for WM40 for 185 you can't tell me tickets for an aew dynamite event are anymore than 50-80 bucks for a good seat
Dude I just read your whole comment you need to be medicated man. Those comments are the ramblings of a crazy man holy hell.
Maybe he should do studio wrestling
Can you explain why the ticket sells and viewership is constantly down just about every week? How about the estimated 34 million dollars they are projected to lose in revenue at the end of 2023?
I’ve been to AEW shows in my local arena that is home to an NHL team and is quite the venue for live music, and those AEW shows were PACKED to the gills! The show is coming back in January, and they have shut down 75% of a 16,755 seat arena - only ~4,000 seats are available for sale. Now don’t get me wrong, like Simon said 4,000 tickets sold to a wrestling show is NOT a bad number, but when you go from seeing a whole arena full of fans to seeing only the lower bowl and floor seats are available, it’s plain to see the interest in the AEW product isn’t quite there as it once was. That’s just maths.
ticket prices don't help.
@@Humorless_Wokescoldlol how does it not? Aew does buy one get one free 20$ tickets every week
I don’t care who you’re a fan of, attendance matters especially when your a weekly episodic TV show. Doesn’t mean that AEW is going down but they may need to downsize operations before they start losing money. Pick smaller venues
If you actually love the business and whatever company you support, you should never say filling a half arena is nothing to worry about! It's not a false narrative to say attendance should be a thing of concern! it is a sign that you are not gaining interest and gravity will always eventually take into effect and bring you down (maintaining is laziness). Having only one side packed (lets not forget the seat warming people that fill in empty seats (either cause not purchased or because the ticket purchaser has a weak bladder) and we don't know that number.
Hard camera panning only attempts to hide an issue from TV viewers while not attempting to address it by admitting that certain things AEW does actually hurts them in the long run and to say it's all OK is a little blind.
Basically; if you have a friend who has partially succeeded in life (have a family and decent job) but is an alcoholic, you don't say his drinking problem isn't a concern so long as we are all having a good time. That shit slowly but surely hurts everyone in the future. Short term warm fuzzies should never shadow long term concerns.
Massive cope
"flip the camera around you'll see the thousands of fans"
yes! you are SO close to seeing the problem!!!
You don't get to skip a generation and build up a narrative that 5k tickets sold is to be considered "doing fine" for a company that has a global audience, when the generation who saw getting 10k tickets sold for a TV show, every week, are still alive
Stop the 🧢 bro! 20% attendance is not a good thing. It’s not fake news. Most of these photos are during big segments like MJF and Edge.
They sold 4,000 tickets. That's good. Can spin it however you want but it is.
@@SimonMillerYT They sold 4,000 tickets for a venue that holds 20,000+, AEW probably spend more money on renting the venue then they made on ticket sales.
@@SimonMillerYTthey aren’t gonna hire u man. 20 percent of an arena is not good. might as well book a 100 k arena and sell 4k tickets and say it’s still good.
What I found really cool about AEW last night after not watching it for probably a good few months is that it still felt like it did the last time I watched it. I didn't stop watching it because I didn't like the programming just kinda wanted to take a break from it, butThe crowd was still super into everything & the show was really good! I think we can all enjoy wrestling for what it is, but that doesn't mean we have to watch just one wrestling program. If you don't like a wrestling promotion, don't go out of your way to shit on it. That's weird. I like the saying "Wrestling is thriving right now" is because we don't just feel like we have access to one specific wrestling promotion to watch and we have alteratives to enjoy if another promotion isn't your cup of tea or whatever, but again... why shit on someone for liking something that isn't doing well. It's weird. You do you.
I still don't get wrestling fans wanting wrestling to fail.
It's not that. It's that their critic is not heard (except for the match marks). That's why wrestling sucks since 2014 at least.
What critique hasn’t been heard though? People complained when the WWE didn’t feature enough wrestling so they began featuring more wrestling. People complained when they didn’t have enough indie talent, so they hired more. People complained that the WWE was too PG, and they’ve moved away from that.
It’s a ten-year-old take to think that the WWE doesn’t listen to their fans. Does it take time? Sure, but wrestling fans are so fickle that if the WWE or AEW listened to everything the fans said, they’d either have all fallen apart by now or we’d be watching some dogshit wrestling on TV every week.
Because they are literally stupid.
@lilsancho6760 I like people having jobs. Whether it is WWE or AEW
@lilsancho6760WWE is getting “insanely good “ because of AEW
They force wwe to do better
A wrestling industry with just WWE would be terrible
I love it when Simon gets pissed and calls out those toxic fans who spread the false narrative. Thank you, mate. And thank you for the positivity.
What’s the false narrative? AEW books arenas that are far too big then need to charge far too much for tickets while the wrestlers perform to the empty side of the arena. When collision was in Toronto tickets were $140 for the cheapest seat because the building was too big. They finally lowered prices to $60 and I went to the show.
why do you feel the need to lie about billioners? you are a grown ass man!@@MrWebweaver
We are toxic because AEW's little president doesn't stfu and constantly talks and compares himself to WWE. So we do the same. Does he has to be WWE, no. But he wants to be, well, fill that arena then or s t f u. Him and his constant btching on twitter etc begging for attention and begging to be WWE. Have you see impact running their mouth? Know your place and that's it. Hi refers himself as a "alternative" whenever he fails at something but when he beats them one night out of a 100, he is like "We are taking over blah blah"
AEW isn't remotely a real competitor to WWE. As soon as everyone stops pretending it is everything will be a lot better for everyone
Screw AEW ya mook😒
I don't know but putting a ppv caliber match of edge vs Christian cage on free TV is wasted potential
Mark culture always simping for poor AEW
The tribalism in wrestling is pretty gross nowadays. Let people like what they like and focus on what you like. I'll never understand the energy that people will put forward towards shitting on something they don't like.
I was at a sold out event earlier this year and AEW had blocked off seats in the arena. I thought it was odd at first, but when I looked at the layout, the half they blocked off had the hard cam, the clock, and was where the swinging arm cam were. It would've sucked for the viewers at home if someone had decided they were going to interfere with them. I haven't been to a WWE show, but I can imagine they have some similar precautions. This tribalism is stupid. Competition brings out the best of companies, so if there is more than just WWE then all wrestling fans win
WWE sells tickets around the hard cam side and all around the "swinging arm" camera it's weird seeing that camera flying over your head. And yes WWE has 2 cameras and a clock on the hard cam side
I think the reason people talk so much about attendances is because JC does on his podcasts. 🤷♂️
I understand the relevance when talking historically and his career but it is certainly putting a spotlight on it when discussing modern wrestling and figures…
And WWE needed AEW to step up their game (Though also think HHH taking charge has helped)
Wasnt this clown on a recent AEW show? Of course he is defending the indefensible.. AEW is dusted. 😂😂
Though selling tickets is main objective, look how invested the AEW crowd vs WWE. Some of those WWE crowds need to check their pulse.
Smaller crowd are always more invested because they are loyal fans they jump up and down for everything that happens.
Don't forget that it's authentic.
It feels genuine. Nothing about a WWE crowd feels authentic. It's painfully obvious they turn Dom's mic down whenever he talks
@@elchomper.1063sure, Jan.
With the amount of huge stars AEW has signed over the past few years, 4000 tickets is not good. They can't be making big profits on numbers like that.
In Minneapolis it was 20F. I thought about going but it was too cold to get out
Simon: If you're a wrestler and have one leg...
Me: Then you're Zack Gowen
It's okay to admit that AEW is struggling to bring in attendance on a weekly basis, maybe they'll actually book properly sized arenas to make the shows look better on camera.
It's also okay to like one thing more than another, you don't have to pretend aew is equal to wwe
This is facts. But its also lame to like one thing only and wish for the downfall of other companies. That's some loser behavior.
We get it, you enjoy all wrestling. Fans have been talking about sports attendance in pretty much every league forever. The Atlanta Hawks used to be the joke of the league for having barely anybody attend their games during their bad runs.
Using wrestletix as a source you should include all of the information. 4K is way down Y2Y, and they’ve been on a bad downward trend for a while now.
“Thousands and thousands of people” is pretty misleading when it’s 4K. that’s definitely a just “thousands” situation.
Also, Tony Khan is the one who fueled all of this. He likes to brag about when they do well vs WWE, and the owner of a promotion taking shots is only going to add fuel to the tribalism fire. This is what Tony wanted and he’s getting it.
Simon I love that work that you do. There is so much room for intelligent discourse. I personally don't watch AEW, never have, BUT that doesn't mean I sit here and wish it collapses. (1) Those are people's livelihoods and (2) I doubt WWE would even be where it is right now without the disruption that was AEW. I actually hope and pray that AEW continues to be around because they clearly offer something to the industry. BIG UPS TO ALL THE POSITIVE PETES!!!!
Screw AEW😒
Since the birth of AEW, WWE seems to be putting on far better shows
Rising tides raise all ships. The stories on AEW where so much better and was proof positive that wrestling fans wanted longer term stories. WWE started telling long term stories within their short term style stories and its raised their product, AEW needs to respond but this has been a WWE change that is relatively recent.@@insomniacbritgaming1632
Exactly! They would still be doing 6 surprise roll-up finishes every RAW@@insomniacbritgaming1632
Tribalism isn't silly when the boss of the company is constantly trying troll WWE like a child and declaring war against them. Doesn't help that the fans are the absolute definition of "marks". If the company wasn't so dislikeable and immature then you could make a point of tribalism but when an entire company is one big dislikeable prick then they get what they deserve.
I've never really been in to AEW, apart from at the very beginning. It seems like they lack the ability to tell compelling stories. If people like AEW good for them but I found it boring.
Always a great day when Simon posts
It's funny that AEW is under a microscope so heavily but people barely talk about the fact that WWE would have folded if the first Wrestlemania had flopped or if the "steriod trail" went the other way or if they had not become a publicly traded company.
Things take time. Everything has its boom and bust periods.
Even Pepsi was kicking Coca Cola's ass at one point but then fell behind but did that stop people from buying Pepsi? Did the company go out of business....no they didn't.
Facts 💯
Perfect analogy.
True, I feel like AEW just needs to grind for a couple of more years, put out a consistent product, grow fan bases around the world and eventually they will break through into mainstream audiences one day. It's a long process and it takes an enormous amount of time.
When people criticize or mock AEW- "OMFG ENJOY ALL WRESTLING, THIS IS TRIBALISM! 😡😡😡"
When people criticize or mock WWE- "YAAAAAS SLAY QUEEN F THE E! 🥰🥰🥰"
L take. The point of a picture like that and the discussion around it are that AEW is lying to the fan base that everything is just peachy and look at how amazing their crowds are in these massive arenas!
All anyone asks is that they book adequate sized arenas and sell tickets at a reasonable price.
I used to go to every AEW show that came to my city. Now I'm priced out and the arenas are empty. It's a bad business decision on their part and fans SHOULD be upset that a company they want to succeed are killing themselves.
AEW is the biggest wrestling failure
Thing is AEW isn’t doing very well lmao
If the AEW talent and fans didnt shit on Impact and WWE every chance they got, people would take a chance on them.. Goodwill soured when they started crying about every other company
4500 tickets would be GREAT in a 5000 seat building. It looks and sounds like crap in a 18000 seat arena. They need to start booking smaller venues, and stop using the same arena for two or three shows in a single week! Even the AEW faithful can't afford that with their ticket prices.
This is a shitty point saying that pic is inaccurate because the other half of the arena is full like bro half the arena is empty seats that’s literally terrible in every reality to not sell half of your available tickets
People have repeatedly posted similar pictures about WWE shows over the years in order to slate WWE and I can’t recall Simon having a problem with it until now that it is being done to AEW. If I missed the video that Simon condemned it when it was being posted about WWE, someone should post the link here.
AEW is like Simon’s little sister, he is very protective of the product and tries his hardest to give excuses for them no matter what
The thing about AEW is, people are happy to criticize/talk shit about WWE, yet it's the opposite on the AEW side, I mean if anyone criticizes the latter, there'll be those AEW fans who gets overprotective over them.
Back in the ancient days of wrestling when the territories were still around and the NWA was still huge I watched as many shows as I could -- Mid-Atlantic, Georgia Championship, WWWF, Florida, WCCW, and so on. When it got to the 90s I watched both WWF and WCW. I can't for the life of me figure out why that's now a bad thing if I watch WWE, AEW, TNT, etc. as a whole. I tune in to them when I can no matter the promotion.
I like to sit on the hard camera side at live wwe shows, so that pic was truly shocking to me.
I’ve been to 4 and they were always packed.
I went to 3 WWE shows in the 2010s that were a very different story. Multiple SmackDown shows with around 3000 people and a Raw in a half-full arena that seats 9000.
Amateur Excrement Wrestling is Dixie Carter TNA 2.0.
I was on the AEW ship when it was first announced but they have increasingly gotten worst and driven many of us fans away. Hearing the amateur booking - TK being too arrogant to bring in creative and instead relying on his inner fanboy fantasies, putting belts on comedy wrestlers like Orange Cassidy (while simultaneously making prospects like Wardlow 'sell' those silly leg taps), the toxic backstage politicking and egos of the Elite wielding too much power to self promote and push themselves. The list goes on.
I don't have an issue with the fans who still watch it but they need to accept the AEW product is not great and they have deviated from where they started. The blind loyalty and fanboy mentality (for all wrestling companies) is bad for business. When things are bad, you need to show your disapproval so changes can hopefully be made.
If I can make a few points:
1. Perception is reality. AEW needs to shift their production setup around. If you're geared up to sell 5,000 tickets in a 20,000 seat arena, then move the ring down to the end of the arena and create a half bowl around the ring. You can still pack 5,000 into all of those seats and make the place look full. Maybe it's an issue with rigging up their lights, and if that's the case, bring in the trusses and block off some seating areas. Someone from AEW said they book these arenas a year out and that's why they're in this situation, but they don't put tickets on sale a year out for a Dynamite and Collision. They can still tweak how they set up an arena.
2. AEW isn't the only secondary company to sell 4,000 tickets. PROGRESS and ICW were running arenas back in 2017/2018 without the help of a billionaire funding it, and without the help of national tv broadcasting it, all while using local homegrown talent.
3. Having too many national wrestling companies kills the independents/territories. Pro Wrestling thrived when there was no nation wide companies. When everyone stayed in their own territories and built up their cities, there was 30 companies running arenas all across the US on the same night. That is infinitely better than having 2 big companies only running the same city once or twice per year. What PROGRESS and ICW did was proof that it's still possible in this day and age. But of course WWE stepped in and signed all of their stars away to NXT UK and then did nothing with NXT UK so they could put the territory on life support.
Part of what you have to think of when showing these AEW photos is their setup. Because of the screen a good portion of the seats can't even be used.
AEW is not going to hire you.
It's not the crowd size, it's the venue choice. Book smaller arenas til they get back to being "sold out", then get back to the larger arenas.
You can't make someone posting a pic from an AEW event an AEW vs WWE thing. They are literally an an AEW event supporting them.
Simon the reason this keeps happening is bc AEW keeps saying they are the RIVAL promotion! Love ya man but AEW is making this happen. They made promises to former WWE guys and they cant keep all of them. AEW is a great show but THEY are CALLING THEMSELVES the rival. They are not the rival they are the alternative! WE LOVE THIS ERA and I am happy all these wrestlers have a job making real money but they are calling themselves this and you will get criticism thrown your way. How much money have AEW made in their history? Well WWE sold just the network for 1 BILLION to Peacock. How much has AEW netted in their entire run? Doubt it was a billion. They made this happen! I LOVE this man 4 days a week with a wrestling show!?! That is awesome but this WILL happen bc of what they keep saying on the show.
It's not about tribalism, people point it out because AEW has been in half empty arenas for some time and people doubt they are making the money necessary to keep it going. WWE was in the same spot back in 2018.
they've NEVER made the money to keep it going. AEW is not profitable. If it wasn't owned by a Billionaire, they would be out of business already.
It's 💯 tribalism.
That clickbait mentality is literally society now. We don't deserve what we have at this point, because we're acting like children crapping on one another for clout.
Truth 💯
Don't keep wrestling positive, keep observations realistic
Actually Simon, I think you might be amused to know that Shakespeare's plays have a lot in common with today's professional wrestling. The demographic was basically the same, working class looking for entertainment, and these plays had it all, bawdy jokes, tons of popular culture references, lots of "staged" sword fighting, bad guys, good guys. The theater during his time was frowned upon by the elitists of the time for being low class, and yet years after his death, his way with words and ability to elicit an emotional response with them lives on.
These AEW fan boys are delusional 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fan boys of anything are delusional. Or are you a wwe mark ?
@@maklame3318wwe fans at least criticise the product when it is bad the 2014 rumble 2015 rumble wwe constant pushnof roman reigns in 2015 pretty much most of 2018-2022 the point is wwe fans critizise the lroduct but aew fan never even when it is bad