the patch could have been a lot better but I'm not doompilled the way a bunch of people seem to be. jkise change looks good, seline looks to have just gotten a slight shift, elena buff opens up her arti selection a bit more, hwayoung got reworked in such a way that all she needs is an EE to make her really strong again. Spez is...something, i guess. probably has to take decrescent now. not good, but he was already not good to begin with. alots change is the one change i think is stupid, not every character needs to be pvp viable. just let him be the abyss cheeser.
I'm not a doompiller and I generally think "Trash" units or nothing patches are just meh. I'm only calling this bad because they butchered Aux Lots in PvE and still won't get usage in PvP. removing Spez's elbris for evasion doesn't help either.
@@raze2012_ I understand the idea behind Spez's change. Sit on his S3 and avoid taking damage using evade, maybe get some counters in with Decrescent instead, then use S3 to kill someone who is stunned and reset S3 cooldown so he can stay in evasion. In theory he should be a slightly more consistent character since he won't just explode due to no survivability built in his kit. In practice, he probably still doesn't do much. We'll have to wait and see. Personally I think the change is welcome on him and that it's good for them to experiment since currently be isn't good. But like I said, I think the ALots change is just straight bad
@@ApexGaleyeah I guess I get the mindset. Spez doesn't have the bulk to really work well with Elbris type reliance. But I kinda see it like this: Would Spez be broken or even good if he had both elbris and evasion? It's debatable since he could run decrescent + counter set and spam S1's but I don't think he'd be near Candy levels with that setup. So it just feels bad to remove one piece to be replaced with this lesser Riolet build. I won't call him outright unusable now because I can see a few games where he lucksacks with Decrescent. It just doesn't feel good, you know?
@@raze2012_ I wouldn't call it lesse Riolet...Riolet's whole issue is that his evasion is tied to a buff that can be removed. Spez having it tied to whenever his S3 is up means he doesn't have to worry about strip removing his dodge chance. With Decrescent he also can get lucky stuns. Compare that to Riolet who does have clutch moments, but is otherwise a "fuck it we ball" character that you lock in when you want to gamble.
What i dislike about the E7 community is how quickly they are to judge the changes. Perfect examples are Alencia, Christy, Ravi, ML Ken off the top of my head. 1st reactions of their changes in the past were met with negativity but after a week or 2 of testing, the community begins to move towards ok its better than I thought mentality. There is also obvious bias. Not everyone plays speed nor have godly speed gear. Most people are casual turn 2 players. The community seriously needs to have a grace period for testing. If the changes after a week or 2 of trying it out are still definite shit, then ok fine throw all your shit at SG's dev team but don't react right away. There's been too many instances where the initial public opinion is straight up wrong. I may not like everything SG does for balancing, but i try them out 1st before complaining. If i worked for the E7 dev team with the amount of negativity they are constantly berrated with, I'd probably just say f it and let the game die. Edit: Add rift content to list of things met with initial negative reactions followed by positive opinion after testing/trying out
True :v like when christy sc were out people slandering her for the questionable changes and screaming about how it ruined their game or playstyle. And yet weeks passed, and whenever a rta tierlist come up I saw her at A or even S
Thats a thing on any type of gacha community actually, at least i hate when peaple over hype a character more than when they shit on them before realize a insane use like sc christy with zio trap. If a character or a change come and peaple says bad things about there is still a lot of time to you to wait until the banner runs out, usually is more than enough time, but with a over hype maybe you have pulled and invested on a character that you actually would not if not seem someone cherry picking 1 match out of 10 when the character did something or things like that.
Dragon King Sharun comes to mind as well with the Sacred Tree Branch buff. The artifact seems aimed at her kit. I'm also excited to try the new rendition of Hwayoung. I never recalled her so it feels good to potentially see use again on a character I have sitting at +15...
what most people dont realize about manica is that it is actually a nerf. When it was still a conditional increased crit chance, the single attacks you do can go through anti crit which I use on ervalen against snow crystal choux. Now, it is gonna work just like azure comet which is to say, not at all against anti crit.
It's frustrating no matter how you look at it. Ayufine is frustrating for aggro and T1 players. Now JKise is frustrating for T2 players. Either way someone will end up being frustrated.
the list of characters to get changes seemed so promising. but then Spez and ALots pretty much got nerfed, Hwa depends on numbers but stuff like the pen scaling on atk difference but removing the innate atk increase is baffling. SEline 'buff'' feels like when a friend copies your homework but shuffles around the order to make it look new without being any different. and most of the rest are small or almost meaningless changes that make me think 'that's it???'. JKise is the only one that seems like a significant change that is overall good.
At least JKise doesn't have unable to be resisted SB on her S3. Although praying that your 300 ER Destina resists is never fun. Let's be real though, the reason we are getting these characters that increase skill cool downs is because SC/SG designed themselves into a corner with handguy. He basically made all debuffers irrelevant, so now debuffers have to increase cool downs to be effective. Watch soon we'll get cleansers that reduce skill cool downs as the power creep arms race continues.
Hey Pat, I couldnt agree more with the CD resets being oppressive, what is your solution to it though? I feel like a character that AOE gives CDs back might be even more oppressive when paired with all the extra turn speed users.
The thing is the only character that could possibly do that is anyone holding ancient dragons legacy. Although I agree it could be a bigger problem in ones hands, with all these lua like units that just keep being made without any nerfs to them it seems to be the only solution
I think it's fine, it's just that you can't be an opener that strips and resets skill cooldown. I don't think Juggs will be a problem because she can't speed contest with 115 speed. Lua was just fast enough and then RTA frenzy made her fast enough to speed contest.
Any offensively focused solution to counter cd resets doesn't make sense to me - the only thing I could see would be a passive that triggers against cd reset, but it's incredibly niche, and I'm not the biggest fan of silver-bullet-based game design either. CD reset is just so oppressive in a game that already rewards proactivity so highly that it's incredibly hard to answer it without a system/meta overhaul. Disclaimer - I'm not Pat.
@blazerush2012 I think the issue comes up when you pair these characters together. Like Lua, R.Roana, Nahkwol, and now Juggs have access to it. I'm not saying you would draft all 4 exactly, but two in a cleave draft plus Zio and two damage dealers pop up what do you do?
I don''t even understand who the new Manica is for. What thief has AoE that would only want hit chance on a single?? Like why would I take this off my LPK?
I love farming counter set only to not have it function in game lol Now soon we'll get spd reduction right so spd set doesn't exist coause that seems fair
Judge Kise got a interesting rework she can't use. Her S1 is full dmg, but they removed her attack imprint and made her a debuffer. S2 and S3 requires someone with a book and anti-counter is useless if she can't go first. She has no imprint, no star sign and no artifact to support her with this. Her speed is bad. She was crazy good in PvE with her skill cooldown reduction but that's gone now... She got sacrificed
I don't understand this perspective. Def pen on s1 vs a def broken unit, as an opener/support that's still gonna be decent damage. And it's not like she was an amazing damage dealer as is right now Books and mages that hold books are abundant and plentiful. There's plenty of units that rely on Books and Book Holders... they don't seem to be doing too bad. Why wouldn't she be able to use anti-counter? You're picking her into slower teams that counter... why wouldn't she be able to go first/before them? She is 115 speed. That's not bad. Nahkwol is 115. AoL is 112. I havent heard anyone complain about either of them not being fast enough to go before slow counter-focused units. Idk about her in pve. I'll pour one out for her on that. PvE shafted again
Lulucar is also the first thing that came to my mind on the Sacred Tree Branch buff. But still one of, if not the, worst balance patch. Can’t believe SG could go lower.
I'm convinced that they are catering to someone's whim, who has poor taste in oppressive units that don't let your opponent play the game. Absolutely one of there worst patches ever released. I keep thinking that there no way the Devs can fumble any harder, but every time the balance patch comes around I'm wrong. (Spez deserved better than this) 2/10 💩
mama Kise buff lets goo I'm going to enjoy this so much not needing ml Elena to use my Ox Lotz mama Kise cleave out side of RTA as for RTA a speed version will be fun to use for sure they finally gave her some love to be actually usable in todays meta and everything that disables counter is a win for me as that garbage meta is terrible ever since green Charls made it a thing ml Ken back then was nukable with Luna so he wasn't a problem but now a days RNG is retarded and is the unhealthy part of the game that really makes me want to quit it all together. This ml Kise and Hwa buffs are great for me bringing some new fresh air in the mix
I think the take on juggs is fine, just the inverse is also true. Trying to pick these openers and faster pace units just to get pylis, Karina, and ayufine/candy slammed is fucking stupid and kills rta for me
YD was using JKise a bit my bet is he will use her a lot more now. ALots got a nerf, like why it makes some PvE a lot harder now. I never used Spez but this feels like a nerf. I was using Hwa to some success but this feels bad. Not only did her legs get broken now SG has to gut her and spit on her. The rest are meh to me. I'll take the S.Celine buff but tbh she didnt need it
@@naisora4994 maybe your reading comprehensive skills are bad I said "I never use Spez but if feels like a nerf" Hwa got her Barrier and her Atk increase removed from her passive and her S3 damage got reduced, on paper it looks like shit. I've been using Hwa with great success since her first nerf. Take your 1 brain cell somewhere else.
How curious how people should play the game? Response to Jkise rant you had there. Again just curious. Im glad you noticed celines buffs are more kit utility then straight buffs. Bravo
Very disappointed with most of these balance changes. Not so much in what they accomplish, but more in how little effort was put into them. Only Juggs and Hwa seem to have been given any real thought. The rest are just "add 5% CR, that'll be fine right?" The Circus Fantasia MIGHT actually be for Mui herself? Not sure what SQ was getting at with this one, but the thought occurred to me.
My issue is not the cd increase, Its the rng clown fiesta from counters and elbris that's rta right now. Being punished for even trying to hit counter units is not fun at all, doesn't manner which strategy you play 😅 And even so, its just 1 turn cd. What even does that against those units that have hard hitting S1s, are going to survive enough turns and and don't even need to S3 right away?
i understand the buffs were not what we expected but i see heavy negativity going around it some choices are questionable sure but for a company that actually listens to us give em a chance
Jkise to me is fine for the simple reason that she does not have ignore er on her reset. That is the thing to me that makes the other 2 so oppressive and something they shouldn't have had to begin with.
Very weird that they made us wait for this crap. They had a chance to chance the worst meta in the game's history and instead decided to do nothing. No DDR counter, and they even doubled down on the most oppressive playstyle with Jkise. I just don't understand a lot of these 'buffs'. ML Celine already did enough damage. Removing Spez's counter? Giving crit chance to circus fantasia which can screw Clilias against ML Ken? Removing Hwa's 30% atk? Making Elena's EE part of her base kit? And also the Achates 5% increase like bruh they really wasted balance slots on that
315? That means she hits like a wet noodle. You're using her for the debuffs and those will get cleansed....i wish you luck though, may the 15% be forever in your favor.
![[Epic Seven] The "Eulogy for a Saint" Release Had Some of the Craziest Patches Ever](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yu7aSUsbKY0/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Epic Seven] The "Eulogy for a Saint" Release Had Some of the Craziest Patches Ever](/img/tr.png)
![12/19 Balance Adjustment Preview - First Thoughts & Initial Impressions [Epic Seven]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KsPzu_dx7ag/mqdefault.jpg)
![Emperor Account Review - Pursuit Season [Epic Seven]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j3CCwvrw9h4/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Epic Seven] #RE: How to Play: Lionheart Cermia (Updated Post E7 World Championship 2023!)](/img/1.gif)
We now have the full skill reset team with every element 😂
Light- Jkise
Dark- RRoana
Fire- Nakhwol
Ice- Lua
Earth- Sharun
Sharun thinks she's on the squad 😂
Adlay is green with aoe strip+reset like the rest
the patch could have been a lot better but I'm not doompilled the way a bunch of people seem to be. jkise change looks good, seline looks to have just gotten a slight shift, elena buff opens up her arti selection a bit more, hwayoung got reworked in such a way that all she needs is an EE to make her really strong again. Spez is...something, i guess. probably has to take decrescent now. not good, but he was already not good to begin with. alots change is the one change i think is stupid, not every character needs to be pvp viable. just let him be the abyss cheeser.
I'm not a doompiller and I generally think "Trash" units or nothing patches are just meh.
I'm only calling this bad because they butchered Aux Lots in PvE and still won't get usage in PvP. removing Spez's elbris for evasion doesn't help either.
@@raze2012_ I understand the idea behind Spez's change. Sit on his S3 and avoid taking damage using evade, maybe get some counters in with Decrescent instead, then use S3 to kill someone who is stunned and reset S3 cooldown so he can stay in evasion. In theory he should be a slightly more consistent character since he won't just explode due to no survivability built in his kit. In practice, he probably still doesn't do much. We'll have to wait and see. Personally I think the change is welcome on him and that it's good for them to experiment since currently be isn't good. But like I said, I think the ALots change is just straight bad
@@ApexGaleyeah I guess I get the mindset. Spez doesn't have the bulk to really work well with Elbris type reliance.
But I kinda see it like this: Would Spez be broken or even good if he had both elbris and evasion? It's debatable since he could run decrescent + counter set and spam S1's but I don't think he'd be near Candy levels with that setup.
So it just feels bad to remove one piece to be replaced with this lesser Riolet build. I won't call him outright unusable now because I can see a few games where he lucksacks with Decrescent. It just doesn't feel good, you know?
@@raze2012_ I wouldn't call it lesse Riolet...Riolet's whole issue is that his evasion is tied to a buff that can be removed. Spez having it tied to whenever his S3 is up means he doesn't have to worry about strip removing his dodge chance. With Decrescent he also can get lucky stuns. Compare that to Riolet who does have clutch moments, but is otherwise a "fuck it we ball" character that you lock in when you want to gamble.
"not good, but he was already not good to begin with" damn I sure like redundant waste of time patches
What i dislike about the E7 community is how quickly they are to judge the changes. Perfect examples are Alencia, Christy, Ravi, ML Ken off the top of my head. 1st reactions of their changes in the past were met with negativity but after a week or 2 of testing, the community begins to move towards ok its better than I thought mentality.
There is also obvious bias. Not everyone plays speed nor have godly speed gear. Most people are casual turn 2 players. The community seriously needs to have a grace period for testing. If the changes after a week or 2 of trying it out are still definite shit, then ok fine throw all your shit at SG's dev team but don't react right away. There's been too many instances where the initial public opinion is straight up wrong.
I may not like everything SG does for balancing, but i try them out 1st before complaining. If i worked for the E7 dev team with the amount of negativity they are constantly berrated with, I'd probably just say f it and let the game die.
Edit: Add rift content to list of things met with initial negative reactions followed by positive opinion after testing/trying out
True :v like when christy sc were out people slandering her for the questionable changes and screaming about how it ruined their game or playstyle. And yet weeks passed, and whenever a rta tierlist come up I saw her at A or even S
Thats a thing on any type of gacha community actually, at least i hate when peaple over hype a character more than when they shit on them before realize a insane use like sc christy with zio trap. If a character or a change come and peaple says bad things about there is still a lot of time to you to wait until the banner runs out, usually is more than enough time, but with a over hype maybe you have pulled and invested on a character that you actually would not if not seem someone cherry picking 1 match out of 10 when the character did something or things like that.
Dragon King Sharun comes to mind as well with the Sacred Tree Branch buff. The artifact seems aimed at her kit. I'm also excited to try the new rendition of Hwayoung. I never recalled her so it feels good to potentially see use again on a character I have sitting at +15...
what most people dont realize about manica is that it is actually a nerf. When it was still a conditional increased crit chance, the single attacks you do can go through anti crit which I use on ervalen against snow crystal choux. Now, it is gonna work just like azure comet which is to say, not at all against anti crit.
It's frustrating no matter how you look at it. Ayufine is frustrating for aggro and T1 players. Now JKise is frustrating for T2 players. Either way someone will end up being frustrated.
the list of characters to get changes seemed so promising. but then Spez and ALots pretty much got nerfed, Hwa depends on numbers but stuff like the pen scaling on atk difference but removing the innate atk increase is baffling. SEline 'buff'' feels like when a friend copies your homework but shuffles around the order to make it look new without being any different. and most of the rest are small or almost meaningless changes that make me think 'that's it???'. JKise is the only one that seems like a significant change that is overall good.
At least JKise doesn't have unable to be resisted SB on her S3. Although praying that your 300 ER Destina resists is never fun.
Let's be real though, the reason we are getting these characters that increase skill cool downs is because SC/SG designed themselves into a corner with handguy. He basically made all debuffers irrelevant, so now debuffers have to increase cool downs to be effective.
Watch soon we'll get cleansers that reduce skill cool downs as the power creep arms race continues.
I am all for what Jena said: KR send the trucks
Can you just put something like moonlight dreamblade or Double edge decrescent on Spez? 50 + 20 = 70% evasion and 20% chance to counter.
Turn 2 players gotta stop thinking that the game is suppose to be in favor of them forever.
Yes, really. Ever since RTA came out, people has the mentality that cleave is OP, but every RTA championship are filled with bruiser line up.
Hey Pat, I couldnt agree more with the CD resets being oppressive, what is your solution to it though? I feel like a character that AOE gives CDs back might be even more oppressive when paired with all the extra turn speed users.
The thing is the only character that could possibly do that is anyone holding ancient dragons legacy. Although I agree it could be a bigger problem in ones hands, with all these lua like units that just keep being made without any nerfs to them it seems to be the only solution
I think it's fine, it's just that you can't be an opener that strips and resets skill cooldown. I don't think Juggs will be a problem because she can't speed contest with 115 speed. Lua was just fast enough and then RTA frenzy made her fast enough to speed contest.
Any offensively focused solution to counter cd resets doesn't make sense to me - the only thing I could see would be a passive that triggers against cd reset, but it's incredibly niche, and I'm not the biggest fan of silver-bullet-based game design either. CD reset is just so oppressive in a game that already rewards proactivity so highly that it's incredibly hard to answer it without a system/meta overhaul. Disclaimer - I'm not Pat.
@blazerush2012 I think the issue comes up when you pair these characters together. Like Lua, R.Roana, Nahkwol, and now Juggs have access to it. I'm not saying you would draft all 4 exactly, but two in a cleave draft plus Zio and two damage dealers pop up what do you do?
A unit with extra turn sb in s1, -1 turn cd sb in s1, unit that doesn't rely on skill cooldown
I don''t even understand who the new Manica is for. What thief has AoE that would only want hit chance on a single?? Like why would I take this off my LPK?
I love farming counter set only to not have it function in game lol
Now soon we'll get spd reduction right so spd set doesn't exist coause that seems fair
Judge Kise got a interesting rework she can't use.
Her S1 is full dmg, but they removed her attack imprint and made her a debuffer.
S2 and S3 requires someone with a book and anti-counter is useless if she can't go first. She has no imprint, no star sign and no artifact to support her with this. Her speed is bad.
She was crazy good in PvE with her skill cooldown reduction but that's gone now... She got sacrificed
I don't understand this perspective.
Def pen on s1 vs a def broken unit, as an opener/support that's still gonna be decent damage. And it's not like she was an amazing damage dealer as is right now
Books and mages that hold books are abundant and plentiful. There's plenty of units that rely on Books and Book Holders... they don't seem to be doing too bad.
Why wouldn't she be able to use anti-counter? You're picking her into slower teams that counter... why wouldn't she be able to go first/before them?
She is 115 speed. That's not bad. Nahkwol is 115. AoL is 112. I havent heard anyone complain about either of them not being fast enough to go before slow counter-focused units.
Idk about her in pve. I'll pour one out for her on that. PvE shafted again
Spez is Green Violet without counters
Lulucar is also the first thing that came to my mind on the Sacred Tree Branch buff. But still one of, if not the, worst balance patch. Can’t believe SG could go lower.
I'm convinced that they are catering to someone's whim, who has poor taste in oppressive units that don't let your opponent play the game. Absolutely one of there worst patches ever released. I keep thinking that there no way the Devs can fumble any harder, but every time the balance patch comes around I'm wrong. (Spez deserved better than this) 2/10 💩
This balance patch is so disappointing... I'm excited to try Hwayoung, I really hope she's at least playable...
I prefer lua and nahkwol all day over the frustrating and annoying navy captain and yufine 😂
mama Kise buff lets goo I'm going to enjoy this so much not needing ml Elena to use my Ox Lotz mama Kise cleave out side of RTA as for RTA a speed version will be fun to use for sure they finally gave her some love to be actually usable in todays meta and everything that disables counter is a win for me as that garbage meta is terrible ever since green Charls made it a thing ml Ken back then was nukable with Luna so he wasn't a problem but now a days RNG is retarded and is the unhealthy part of the game that really makes me want to quit it all together. This ml Kise and Hwa buffs are great for me bringing some new fresh air in the mix
I think the take on juggs is fine, just the inverse is also true. Trying to pick these openers and faster pace units just to get pylis, Karina, and ayufine/candy slammed is fucking stupid and kills rta for me
hell yes i do enjoy lua and nak they are a necessary evil, otherwhise its just frenzy 10 arowell lrk landy...bs
YD was using JKise a bit my bet is he will use her a lot more now. ALots got a nerf, like why it makes some PvE a lot harder now. I never used Spez but this feels like a nerf. I was using Hwa to some success but this feels bad. Not only did her legs get broken now SG has to gut her and spit on her. The rest are meh to me. I'll take the S.Celine buff but tbh she didnt need it
Spez and hwa a Nerf ? Man do you play the Game or you just like to Talk shit
@@naisora4994 maybe your reading comprehensive skills are bad I said "I never use Spez but if feels like a nerf" Hwa got her Barrier and her Atk increase removed from her passive and her S3 damage got reduced, on paper it looks like shit. I've been using Hwa with great success since her first nerf. Take your 1 brain cell somewhere else.
Wait for those hybrid EFF DPS Juggs players to come and stomp you :v
How curious how people should play the game? Response to Jkise rant you had there. Again just curious.
Im glad you noticed celines buffs are more kit utility then straight buffs. Bravo
Very disappointed with most of these balance changes. Not so much in what they accomplish, but more in how little effort was put into them. Only Juggs and Hwa seem to have been given any real thought. The rest are just "add 5% CR, that'll be fine right?"
The Circus Fantasia MIGHT actually be for Mui herself? Not sure what SQ was getting at with this one, but the thought occurred to me.
😅 youre forgetting blingo
most copium patch and i doubt they'll be able to top it
My issue is not the cd increase, Its the rng clown fiesta from counters and elbris that's rta right now. Being punished for even trying to hit counter units is not fun at all, doesn't manner which strategy you play 😅
And even so, its just 1 turn cd. What even does that against those units that have hard hitting S1s, are going to survive enough turns and and don't even need to S3 right away?
Circus Fantasia crit is to ease the stat requirement for Mui, since she needs to crit. But still, you're playing Mui lmfao.
i understand the buffs were not what we expected but i see heavy negativity going around it
some choices are questionable sure but for a company that actually listens to us give em a chance
They dont listen to us they listen to their accountants
AUX. lot change is just stupid. Destroy an already niche hero's only use.
Sometimes, I like the disappointing balance changes to some of the heroes I never invested in. I could just ignore them longer.
Jkise to me is fine for the simple reason that she does not have ignore er on her reset. That is the thing to me that makes the other 2 so oppressive and something they shouldn't have had to begin with.
Very weird that they made us wait for this crap. They had a chance to chance the worst meta in the game's history and instead decided to do nothing. No DDR counter, and they even doubled down on the most oppressive playstyle with Jkise.
I just don't understand a lot of these 'buffs'. ML Celine already did enough damage. Removing Spez's counter? Giving crit chance to circus fantasia which can screw Clilias against ML Ken? Removing Hwa's 30% atk? Making Elena's EE part of her base kit? And also the Achates 5% increase like bruh they really wasted balance slots on that
These crybabies in the comment section should stop whining and test out these buffed units first.
My 315 j kise looking forward to ruining my pleb opponents team kyahaha kyhaha 😂😂😈😈
315? That means she hits like a wet noodle. You're using her for the debuffs and those will get cleansed....i wish you luck though, may the 15% be forever in your favor.
Preach Tsu! Tell them about their nan lol jk
Yeah judge kise changes great and all but now i dont exist lol
What's good about them? They scream awful.
@Dardrol anyone slower than judge dies unless they have Elena or Bunny dom specifically with hand guy
What a fucking joke 😂
Obligatory comment
They delayed the patch for 5 days just to give proper burial to Hwa,Spez and our boi Alots,may you rest in peace.
u gona say the same thing on every video of this patch?
@@alize9227 ye