I just enjoy watching your reviews on anything. I'm not a bike or knife guy either but I watch the videos. It's just refreshing to see a pice of content so well organized, tested, and proved that doesn't have any preset bias and influenced the integrity. In a lot of different industries there's marketing schemes and deals so I find myself referring to your channel whenever the content is available to judge whether or not I want to integrate something. Usually, when reasonable, if you haven't reviewed something, I won't consider it unless it's something that really wouldn't need a review(like a medical glove pouch for my duty belt or something). That's why end users like myself and OJ love your channel so much. No bullshit, no marketing, no prejudices, just straight facts from a reliable and experienced source. When I need a piece of gear or a firearm to do my job, I don't turn to the companies that make money off of them, because I need to really know it'll work. Thank you nutn for what you give to the LEO community.
It's about torque and the shape of the power curve for an off road bike, not some glory power number. Also advertised power is at the flywheel, rear wheel power is 12-17% less, and that's before power loss at altitude. EDIT: Calculation for power loss at altitude HP Loss = (elevation x 0.03 x horsepower @ sea level)/1000 So 150hp flywheel at sea level would equal 130.5 at 4300 feet. Drop another 12% off of that for drive line loss you are at 115. Also what was the fuel used, if you are running standard vs premium fuel that could change timing. Also, don't you have crap low octane gas in Utah? And for the 1000th time you RIDE a motorcycle, you DRIVE a car.
Not only this, but as there are many paths through the woods there are many paths to measuring horsepower. Aftermarket dynos are best used as a comparison doing a pre-mod run, then a post-mod run to see gains, not to try and determine real numbers. If you want to do that use SAE standards so you can at least compare to most respected US automakers.
dtroy15 He can't because every manufacturer/engine has a different amount of drivetrain loss. My Sportsters usually run about 7%, my 05 America is 9%. i know this because I have tested them at the cranks and on the wheels. And the guy mentions how the gearing was. Gearing has nothing to do with power figures.
I had one these bikes, the UNI filter can cause major power losses. People online have reported 20+ hp loss on a dyno when ran with the filter socks. I know mine would easily lift the tire through 3rd gear. I now own a 1290 super duke and would say the adventure would have easily kept up to 100+. Love the channel keep up the good work.
Love your bike vids! I live vicariously through your bike vids. Keep cranking them out man. And thank you for your service both to this country, and to the comunity!
I used to lease a dyno for my shop and from all the technicians and people that I personally have spoken with there are alot of bad dynos out there that are not calibrated right.Not saying this one isn't but only they can test it.We also didn't use our stats sheets as o I got this many hp ect. We used it to get a base run average stock and just get it up as high as we can safely.We also used to tell people don't claim any numbers because everyone will be off a little use the rising of the hp from tuning to get the max out and that's what a dyno really should be used for.They do read hp and torque ect and if calibrated right it can be trusted to be pretty close #s.I definitely think you bike has afr off as it shows those rich spots kill power.My buddy has the same bike stock and I ride a busa also and that bike is quick.You should definitely bring it back.Just hope that the warranty you signed won't be voided for adding aftermarket (considered motor parts) before break in period was over or they might not accept any but cosmetic.Hopefully no issues and that is a nice bike for all purposes pretty much.Would love to own one but I am waiting till I move next year.Hope all is well thanks for the vid.
working2Bselfsufficient It's not the dyno- We took this 1190 to it because his wife and I said it felt no faster than his 100hp vstrom...turns out it dynos the same! I think we've got it more dialed in at this point, but we've got to take her back and make sure. -TD
nutnfancy I think it could make 140-150ish at sealevel with a different filter and a better tune. Yes it is very low right now but it has a lot of things working against it.
***** We thought it would be interesting for people to note- right now the 1190 is the 'best' all-arounder, besting the 1200 by virtue of speed and the multistrada by dirt capability. This is just a funky thing but if we were in the market we'd definitely want to know. We'll get it squared away. -TD
Nice to see a full dyno run, and not one of those 30 second videos! Some notes from what I see as an experienced Dynojet dyno operator... There are a lot of factors that could be influencing what you are seeing numbers-wise. Dynos are a comparison tool, best employed for diagnostics and checking before and after results (on the same dyno.) KTM's numbers are going to SAE BHP; Society of Automotive Engineers Brake Horsepower. BHP is by definition measured at the crank, and no, a Dynojet dyno *does not* compensate for that. Altitude: We have seen a solid 15% power loss of the same bike, same dyno (Dynojets own dyno truck that goes to all the AMA Pro races,) and same operator, from sea level to 5000 feet (Pikes Peak International Raceway. Tunes were optimized for both elevations; there's no way around less oxygen.) With that filter and exhaust, you *will* need to remap the bike... Sorry, but it's just the case. I don't know what other options besides a Power Commander there are for that bike, but since you're hooked-up with a Dynojet dyno operator, I would go with the PC5; it'll be much quicker and easier for him to give you a good tune because of the way it works with his Dynojet set-up. (The bike cannot compensate for those changes since those runs are at full engine loading and therefore the fueling will be in open loop mode.) He will need to play with the air/fuel ratio to see what *your* bike likes; leaner *is not always* meaner. Does the bike have a catalytic converter? If so, the dynojet exhaust probe will not give you accurate A/F raedings. You will need to either eliminate the cat or get a pre-cat sample (Hint: Use a Dynojet O2 Sensor eliminator, remove the O2 sensor, and make an adapter fitting that goes from the threading in the exhaust to a 1/4" compression fitting (hardware store plumbing item.) The copper tubing of the Dynojet exhaust probe can then be fitted directly to a pre-cat sample location.) Plus all those other little variables that stack up like tire pressure, is the bike fully broken-in, the condition of his dynojet's drum, engine temp, air density (the Dyno Stack only goes so far,) etc. etc. (Oh, and he needs a new inductive pick-up for his spark lead clamp, the ferrite on his is cracked. No impact on the numbers you're seeing, though. That'll just stabilize the tach reading on the computer, and reduce the number of aborted runs.) But before you start going down all of those roads, get another KTM of the same model on that dyno; many of those aforementioned variables can them be mitigated, and tell you if you just have a bad bike... Short of a bike-to-bike, same operator, same dyno, same environment, you will not know.
It's probably due in part to mapping adjustments to meet your stricter emissions laws. My u.k spec 1190 was measured on a dyno at 154.4, only mods are an Akropovic exhaust and a stage one remap. A friend also had his tested on a different dyno @ 153.7 hp.
Good luck dealing with KTM N/A. I had a 990 Super Duke. The fuel tank cracked. Replaced under warranty 3 times. They refused to buy it back despite the fact that my house could have gone up in flames. The fumes in my garage were THAT bad. I was able to sell it and will never touch a KTM again.
Nutn, I'm stoked you finally picked up the 1190!! Hope you get the HP issue figured out, looking forward to seeing an update on this. And, of course, much looking forward to more 1190 Adventure vids to come!!!! Unfortunately I'm going to sell my current bike (2013 street triple) because I'm moving to freaking Altus Oklahoma (I know you're very familiar) and there's pretty much NOWHERE cool to ride out there. But either a 690 Enduro R, or the 1190 Adventure R is definitely in my future :)
I've got the same problem. My KTM 1190 adventure R has been tested and produces just 115 BHP. I live at sealevel and it was a nice day around 60 degrees Farenheit or 15 degrees Celcius. Nice smooth curve though but disappointing when you've spent 18000 euros on a bike advertised at 150 BHP.
I own a 2015 KTM 1190 and have 6,000 miles on it. It's very important that you dyno with a street tire on the bike. The knobby will slip the Dyno drum and reduce the reading by at least 10hp. Also, the UNI filter socks that go directly into the two intake snorkels are known to drop the horsepower a lot, too. The UNI system filters the air great, but you have to accept the horsepower loss. I recommend the Rottweiler Intake System for max power on your 1190. No dust issues and great horsepower gains. KTM claims 148hp, but there are credible readings out there closer to 135hp, stock.
Thanks for the bike vid, always appreciated. Bikes and guns. I'm not surprised by the dyno numbers though. You hear horsepower numbers thrown around all the time, but when they dyno them, tears...150 sounds like a tall claim.
I read about the 1190 adventure R in a magazine that said that there are different settings that adjust the horsepower. It was standard 150hp, but in offroadmode it was reduced to about 100hp. The bike is on sportsmode so there can be a electrical problem.
Looks to me like the factory might have adjusted the throttle linkage system poorly. Loose throttle cables seem to be quite a common cause of power loss in older cars. Granted, the bike's new and 50bhp seems quite a lot, but if the factory didn't adjust it properly, you just won't get the power out of it. I think it's worth a look to see if the throttle opens fully or not
233kosta I'd have to double check but it felt like it was ride by wire.....I was guessing it was flashed with a crappy A2 license euromap and the dealer didn't know what they're doing. We've found shop rags in bodywork these guys left behind, so who knows what else could've been missed. At this altitude I'd be expecting 130 optimistically. -TD
nutnfancy I s'pose nobody uses direct cable linkages any more. My car has a cable linkage to the potentiometer and it's all digital past that, but it's 10 years old, I think it's all cable free now. If the dealer you bought it from has been messing with it, I wouldn't be surprised if they dicked up the ECU mapping. Is there any way to restore it to factory settings?
nutnfancy not sure on motorcycles but ive got a lot of dyno tuning experience on cars... basically if you put a pre made tune on a modded car you can lose 20hp... on my cobra I had full boltons and a tune and made about 20 hp less then stock 4 grand lighter... 300 dollars on a custom tune and made 45hp more then stock for a 65hp gain on the dyno... best money I ever spent... NO PREMADE TUNES they are junk!
Hi Nutn, Something similarly happened to me with a 1200gsa from years of touring and doing my own maintence. Anyways, I took off and put on the exhaust a few times and one time I notice a power decrease. Turns out that I did not a good seal from the manifold and the muffler. After correcting it, it felt like a new bike again! Hopefully this might be the problem for you too, because I see an after market exhaust on your KTM. Best of luck dude! Much love!
If that is uncorrected horsepower at the rear wheel, then that is a pretty impressive number off an inertial, as opposed to a brake, dynamometer running at 4300' altitude. The KTM advertised number is at the crank, using a brake dynamometer, and is corrected for standard sea level atmospheric pressure. At the crank means before all the parasitic power losses in the drivetrain (primary drive, transmission, final drive, Cush drive hub) and the rear tire. All that tire flexing, especially on a dunno drum consumes the HP. You can see the effect on a dyno plot just by altering tire pressure. Running in lower gear on an inertial dyno also lowers the result, since more of the power is being consumed to spin up the entire drive train. A brake dyno runs to speed much more slowly and can even hold a constant speed, so that less or none of the engine's power is being transferred/stored in rotating drivetrain inertia. If that was a corrected result, then you may have an issue, but with off-road tires, the parasitic HP loss can be extreme. 20% total might not be unrealistic. Fuel also makes a difference, so too engine oil. A engine not fully warmed up or a heavier grade engine and transmission lubricant will increase parasitic losses. It sure is a shame that Harley threw Buell under the bus after so many years of preventing them from advancing their product. The KTM is a great bike, but the naked simplicity of the air cooled machines still win out for me. Nothing worse than getting stuck in the desert with a leaking cooling system. Air cooled rules for preppers. :) Great forum about the Buells at www.BadWeatherBikers.com.
Would like to see the test redone with MTC turned off as well. Can't help wonder if traction control is interfering with the bike reaching peak on the dyno.
I don't know if anyone has said this already but, that thing is seriously rich. The AFR is nearly 12:1. You can actually see the fuel trace go rich @ 4500 rpm and at the same time the power falls off and never recovers. And to also tell you something I wish I didn't have too, the dyno was not set-up correctly. The torque and power curves should intersect at 5252 rpm. ALWAYS. They didn't intersect until 8250 roughly. Is there some type of fuel controller on this bike that can be adjusted?
Hate to hear about the VStrom. It is a great looking bike. I'm looking for a 50/50 off road adventure bike and enjoy your vids with the bikes. Looking forward to seeing some great adventure vids with the KTM
Hey nutn, sorry youre disappointed man. I would check to make sure your fuel injectors don't have dust in them, also i would not use the euro tuner, you need to buy an aftermarket tuner if you want the best performance. I run a JD jetting EFI tuner on both my 2014 ktm 500 and my ktm 990 duke it makes a huge difference. I used to own a Vstrom and a sold it a long time ago. Way too big and slow.
You should also try another dyno and use a rear slick (tire). It could be the dyno may be off or the tire is slipping on the dyno roller.. But if it feels slow it definitely might be. Next best thing would be to dyno another bike just like it on the same dyno to compare. It could also be that the EFI needs to be remapped because of the exhaust and air filter.
UOA=Used Oil Analysis it will give some insight into what is going on inside that motor. My dad swears by paper filters to keep sand dirt out of the engine. If you want a clean engine paper is the way to go. Foam and fabric filters do not plug up as fast but they tend to let a lot more dirt into the engine. Dirt speeds up wear and tear on the internal parts.
I'm surprised Rick doesn't mention drive train loss, I can't imagine its nearly as dramatic on bike as it is in cars but it could account for some of the missing hp. Changing the filter can affect how the motor breaths (bottleneck) and could be another part of the issue.
I wonder if there is something wrong with the bike. A buddy of mine has one but it was dyno'd at 146hp. It could be altitude as well but we are over here in PA.
tubefed420 This could be part of it. I know others out west with the same bike as me, (SV650s) that dont do very well compared to mine. Its rated for 74HP but if I had to guess, I'd say it would reach high 60s. But around a 50HP difference is very concerning.
Not finished with the video yet but I'm immediately thinking that you should count the teeth on your sprockets. Someone who lived on the highway with that bike may have went down a tooth in back or up a tooth in front, or both. Something like that would explain the blanket deduct on power.
Always been a bike guy, been without for a while but bought a 85 Suzuki gs550 for 50$ and got it rocking. Went through the hole bike, she all up to par with a lot of new. Got 800$ in it. Specs say 49hp. Going to ride it just because it's a bike. Cheap as new bikes are, might be looking for something like you have. Maybe not a ktm but something. Research will tell. Just stoked I have something right now.
I would check throttle adjustment. Does it open fully? Is sport mode the highest HP mode? If so, is it actually enabled in the ECU not just the dash? Is the new Air cleaner correctly installed? Is the ignition timing set correctly? Does it have an inbuilt break-in HP limiter that gets reset by KTM service module at first service?
Maybe a dumb question, but at 1200 miles, is a bike with a motor that large (obviously there are much larger, but I'm used to dirt/dual sports) is it possible that the motor is not fully broken in?
I had one of these. Incredible bike. I road many times with a bunch of guys that had them. One kid from England that could make these bikes sit up and do tricks. Wait till you find out what it takes to pick it up when you're tired after riding a few hours. They are heavy. It takes a truly expert rider to handle this big a bike in rough terrain. Young helps too.
reed scott We've been picking them up, I got a little too far into some tight trails last week that were essentially a motocross woods practice area. It was def. not the best terrain for big bikes, had to practice my squats all day. Not so much fun, but after dropping into a valley there wasn't much way out. :/ TD
nutnfancy There's some really crazy mofos that ride these bikes. One thing I learned the hard way. The really hard way. Ride with people of like ability. It is literally life threatening to ride with people way beyond your ability. They will get you hurt and even killed. But then you probably learned that riding the bikes you had before. I wouldn't get too caught up in the HP lust. 106 HP is more power than all but the best riders can even handle. Let alone make use of. But you got the right bike. BMW twins just can't match up to these bikes. Personally if I had to do it all over again I'd stick with a big thumper. So much more maneuverable and won't wear you out if you're committed to riding trails.
Nutn, in my younger days I owned an automotive repair shop with a dynomometer. We also did performance work. KTM may be claiming 150hp to the flywheel, which may be the case here. You can expect a loss of about 1/5 of the total HP to the rear wheel, transmission, chain, wheel, etc., all cause loss of HP. That being said you should get about 120hp to the rear wheel, showing on the dyno. 106hp, as you say, is disappointing, an issue somewhere.
Hey Nutn. My heart aches for your bike troubles man. I had an 05 r1200gs, I currently have a 07 xchallenge and was thinking about getting another twin (because although I've done long distance/freeway speeds in the past on it, I don't want to ride my single to your next nutnfancy dinner (when will it be btw? What can be better than a bike, knife, and gun gear good times dinner??)) and have been researching the 1190. My first in-seat impressions when they first did test rides introducing the bike was that I liked the engine (I hit 90mph and wasn't even out of third yet getting onto the freeway. It was noticeably quicker than the GS. Like a GS + adding on a DL650. Trust your butt.) and suspension but for everything else I still preferred the GS overall: mostly handling, more weight down low and paralever related. I liked the low down torque/grunt and the way the bike tracked. I was thinking about going with KTM this time around (cause I like trying something new) and have been reading through the 1190 threads on Advrider. I know forums generally aren't all that helpful but there are a lot of good dudes on Advrider and they're generally very helpful. Granted there are trolls everywhere but can't do anything about them; focus on the good! I've seen a few similar threads relating to dyno numbers on the 1190 with more information coming in. You may want to look into Rotweiler (check out their dyno chart: cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-xk32d/products/92/images/488/1190_Rottweiler_Intake_System__94161.1409520693.1280.1280.jpg?c=2 ) or Powercell replacing the Uni. One guy had a really bad run with the Unifilter. advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1024448 Not sure if your bike came with a bad fuel dongle from the bike shop but that could be something too. Maybe when they flashed the ecu something got stuck or fried or just a bad map. It sounds like you've found the issue or on the right track and I know there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck, I'll say a couple of bike-bro prayers and will keep my eyes peeled for future videos and updates.
online the stock hp at the wheels is about 130hp 150 is crank. I live in herriman and today the density altitude according to my applied ballistics app is about 5500 feet. I see everything from about 9500 DA down to 1000 or maybe less, depending on temps etc. with that said usually you are about 3%/1000 feet DA down in power. take 16.5% from 130 hp and you are RIGHT ON WHAT YOU RAN if you ran the bike on the dyno today.
I can tell you right now that you need to find another dyno guy. there is no way in hell that an 883 is making 78hp at the rear wheel. That is a the power from a very well tuned 1200. i call BS on that all day long and I will gladly tell your dyno man that he is full of it. Someone took an 883/1200 conversion in there and didn't tell him. If he knows ANYTHING about HD he should have picked up on it right away. On its best day with cams and a hellacious tune, an 883 will struggle to make 60hp. Don't believe me?? Call Hammer Performance or NHRS Performance...the be all end all of XL tuners and racers. And give your motor time to loosen up some. Take a compression test. If that seems to be in spec, the exhaust and MAP/Flash may be the issue. I have seen that many times too. Your chart looks funny. Your HP/TQ should be the same numbers at 5252rpm, like every other engine on the planet.....what filter/scrolling is he using?? From the angle of your camera, the first one you posted, the lines didn't cross till 7K, then later in the video another shot shows them cross at 5252. My other question is, how does he figure power train loss?? That is what a wheel dyno shows. You don't deduct anything else out...
I'm only have way through the video but in the beginning you say it has a aftermarket exhaust and a new map? Maybe they tuned it wrong? That along with you doing something with the intake might account for the power loss. The intake and exhaust could lower HP but not 50HP but the map they put on it along with those things could! Maybe try the stock map and see if you gain anything back.
Sorry Mr Nutn, I bought a 2015 1190 R model 2 weeks ago and it flat out absolutely rips, and I have a 185whp zx10r to compare against. Your bike assuming you dont have 87 oct in it, it is surely screwed up somewhere in the mapping.
TheYoungConnoisseur BTW the unifilters dramatically reduce power, not 30hp tho! I just sealed my airbox with permatex gasket goo and its locked up tighter than a virgin on prom night!
What does it weigh? Its a pretty big bike. The power/weight ratio doesn't seem that good. Thinking about selling/trading my hayabusa for a adventure bike, but the pwrformance i've aeen with the adventure bikes just isn't cutting it for me.
Nutnfancy or tacticaldoodle I'm trying to decide between the Kawasaki KLR 650 or the Honda xr650l . I know there's fanboys for both of them. personally I lean a little bit towards the Honda becauseI had an XR 80 when I was 8 years old so I feel more comfortable with the prehistoric design of the Honda. but the klr according to their specs does get better gas mileage and is probably a better street bike it outweighs the Honda by about a about 80 pounds. but I'm only 5 11 and I weigh about 200 pounds so I feel I could throw the Honda around better in the dirt . I guess it just comes down to personal preference and what I'm going to use the bike for mostly. just curious about what your thoughts are since you have a lot of experience with dual sports and motorcycles in general . I understand what the differences between the bikes are spec wise . I've had a lot of different motorcycles myself thanks appreciate it
Im 5 mins in and I have to say, 106 isnt that bad. Things to consider: altitude (duh), airflow and exactly how constricted/ congested is the shop? At 4300 ft., you need open air. Id suggest a new filter. And...wtf is up with air bags on a bike? That sounds awfully not cool to me. Id get rid of them, rely on your protective gear and put storage where that vacancy is. Best of luck, Nutn + crew. RI, USA
Understandable, you are disappointed not getting what you paid for! But how much horsepower do you need on a bike? 106 HP seems like more than enough to me.
Blitz350 The bike offers a couple things the older one didn't- You get electronic aids, more power, etc. but the power is a pretty big reason. Sure you don't 'need' much, but how much 'need' can we prescribe to anything? How many people 'need' anything more than 99 hp in an econobox? In this case the extra power is great to give you freedom at highway speeds so you can more easily avoid situations you don't like. Getting boxed in by a couple semis and feeling strong gusts? Just power around it and preserve your car free bubble, y'know? carnut666's totally right- it's as much as you want, until the tech lords decide we're all limited to self-driving pool tables and public transit. :/ TD
it seems that the mode switches are not right. the offroad/rain modes are limited to about 100 hp. seems strange that that would be the number on the dyno as well at the sport mode. I wouldn't think that they exaggerate the power by 50%. I would test the mode switching system before modifying anything. also test the power with the MTC in the OFF mode and all other modes as well.
I'm not an expert in fact I don't own a bike. But from being a huge Top Gear fan it is quite common for cars even brand new to advertise more HPs than they actually have. I know they tested the 500 HP mustangs and only got 450 HPs. Also they have managed to increase HPs of a car by giving it a nice tune up which included taking the engine apart.
Hy nutnfancy have you got the Offroad/Bad Fuel Dongle? It reduces the Power to ~100 HP. KTM needs 95+ Octan Patrol to run @ full Power. 95 Oktan is the lowest you can get in Austria.
This is gonna sound absolutely crazy but here goes. My r6 race bike was severely down on power and a friend on an identical bike could pass me like i was stopped on the straits. I checked everything and trust me i mean everything. After checking everything and finding nothing one day he told me replace the plugs it worth the few dollars just to write it off.... and I'm not kidding my r6 went from being passed by sv650's to blowing by my buddy... Also I'm not familiar with the uni filter but if you use a K&N run it dry or if your in a dusty place use very little oil. its pretty incredible how restrictive an over oiled k&n is. Hope this helps as simple as it sounds.
Jacob Blair Pretty sure it was the air filter on there, stay tuned for the exact fix. We've got it a bit better right now, but it still needs a once-over on the dyno. _TD
Hate to say but the dyno numbers may be just fine. I assume they are rear-wheel horsepower. Just confirming what others have said. If the factory is stating 150 hp, that will be crankshaft horsepower with no accessories. 17% powertrain loss gets you to 124.5 hp. Altitude derate of 4% per 1000 feet for a naturally aspirated gasoline engine (16% total) gets you to 104.6 hp. Right on the money. There's actually a temperature derate above 60 degrees F but I assume the dyno will compensate for that. You can argue about the derates, is it 3% or 4% for altitude? Is it 15% or 20% for powertrain? There's also error in the measurement on the dyno. Never compare numbers from different dynos. FWIW - I've spent most of the last 40 years working on and operating industrial engines (and building motorcycles and automobile projects), even worked on some factory dyno equipment. Granted, not at 10,000 rpm. Industrial engines run at much slower speeds. Factory dynos I have experience with are electric generators or Prony brakes. Electric power goes to resistance elements (giant toaster elements). Power = volts x amps x generator efficiency. Prony brakes don't lie, they measure actual max torque at a given rpm. Horsepower is kind of a BS thing to talk about but that's what everyone wants to know. It's a mathematical calculation using torque and rpm, it can't be measured directly. Torque and Hp are always equal at 5252 rpm (check it out if you don't believe...) Torque is king. Torque, not horsepower, creates acceleration. The largest "area under the curve" in the operating range you want will give the best all around performance. Great peak numbers can be had from totally unusable engines.
The MoCo rates the HP on the crankshaft.. Thats with no electrical drag (746w=1hp) They also rate it without emissions tuning as shipped to America,,, 106 at the rear wheel at 4500' is pretty good for a stock bike. So add 25% to 28% more HP and it should come out close to advertised HP..
It's rated at 148 horsepower which considering you are at high elevation and have a possibly clogged air filter seems just in line with how much power it's making
Maybe it is as you said nutn, they de-tuned it for a reason. In Australia the bike is marketed at 148hp as well, but maybe the 148 hp is actually the theoretical output than they are down tuned in order to meet emissions regulations or something along them lines. . Or maybe they use a similar method as cars, where though they might say you have "X" hp they fail to mention this output is actually under ideal environmental conditions and/or under computer simulation conditions that do not reflect different climates. Could be a whole bunch of reasons, but i would not be surprised if they down tuned it in order to meet some horse shit regulation.
Hey Nutn! I knew you would get one of these soon :) Something is definitely amiss with your bike. I'm going to guess there is something going on with the mapping... Why did you have it remapped right off the bat? They are really good stock. The Uni Filter robs some power but not THAT much. When they are running right they are SCARY fast...
DynoJet are the best dynamometers on the market. KTM's website claims 150 HP. That's more than my Honda Civic. I don't see how a motorcycle would have a 44 HP loss from the engine to the wheel. That's a lot! Best of luck nutnfancy getting the issue worked out. Hopefully it's something a warranty service can resolve. Great video and I love the car and motorcycle vids since I'm a gear-head. For air filtration, I'm a big fan of K&N filters. They always make more power and do an excellent job at filtering the dirt. www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=KT-1113 It's funny my wife tells our kids the same thing Rick says, "You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit."
Cyleworld did a test at .... 128.8 hp at 9,360 rpm and 81.3 pound-feet of peak torque at 7,670 rpm....mmmmm it's been said already but again fuel octane and the exhaust sapping power...that's the simple situation. Is there any feeling difference between street and sport mode? Both claim 150bpm. How customisable are the modes. Maybe the sport mode is set to to the lower setting or is it like the busa..... As u said test another standard model...
Checked the owners manual on page 180 it says the tc can change the torque...maybe have a play with that if you haven't already. I would asume tc to be off when on a dyno but I have so experience in this area so I'll be quiet now. Toiots
KTMs looks nice and so do Harley's but I wouldn't want to pay for one. I'll stay with the V-strom dl1000 does nothing great but everything good. But I hope you figure out the issue.
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I just enjoy watching your reviews on anything. I'm not a bike or knife guy either but I watch the videos. It's just refreshing to see a pice of content so well organized, tested, and proved that doesn't have any preset bias and influenced the integrity. In a lot of different industries there's marketing schemes and deals so I find myself referring to your channel whenever the content is available to judge whether or not I want to integrate something. Usually, when reasonable, if you haven't reviewed something, I won't consider it unless it's something that really wouldn't need a review(like a medical glove pouch for my duty belt or something).
That's why end users like myself and OJ love your channel so much. No bullshit, no marketing, no prejudices, just straight facts from a reliable and experienced source. When I need a piece of gear or a firearm to do my job, I don't turn to the companies that make money off of them, because I need to really know it'll work.
Thank you nutn for what you give to the LEO community.
It's about torque and the shape of the power curve for an off road bike, not some glory power number. Also advertised power is at the flywheel, rear wheel power is 12-17% less, and that's before power loss at altitude.
EDIT: Calculation for power loss at altitude
HP Loss = (elevation x 0.03 x horsepower @ sea level)/1000
So 150hp flywheel at sea level would equal 130.5 at 4300 feet. Drop another 12% off of that for drive line loss you are at 115. Also what was the fuel used, if you are running standard vs premium fuel that could change timing. Also, don't you have crap low octane gas in Utah?
And for the 1000th time you RIDE a motorcycle, you DRIVE a car.
Not only this, but as there are many paths through the woods there are many paths to measuring horsepower. Aftermarket dynos are best used as a comparison doing a pre-mod run, then a post-mod run to see gains, not to try and determine real numbers. If you want to do that use SAE standards so you can at least compare to most respected US automakers.
Rumblestrip.NET He mentioned in the video that the dyno is calibrated to consider drivetrain losses. Not sure how he's doing that though...
dtroy15
He can't because every manufacturer/engine has a different amount of drivetrain loss. My Sportsters usually run about 7%, my 05 America is 9%. i know this because I have tested them at the cranks and on the wheels.
And the guy mentions how the gearing was. Gearing has nothing to do with power figures.
jrmym2 Go load some extra clips for your pistols and rifles
scott morgan which is why I left the ellipses...
I had one these bikes, the UNI filter can cause major power losses. People online have reported 20+ hp loss on a dyno when ran with the filter socks. I know mine would easily lift the tire through 3rd gear. I now own a 1290 super duke and would say the adventure would have easily kept up to 100+. Love the channel keep up the good work.
Love your bike vids! I live vicariously through your bike vids. Keep cranking them out man. And thank you for your service both to this country, and to the comunity!
I used to lease a dyno for my shop and from all the technicians and people that I personally have spoken with there are alot of bad dynos out there that are not calibrated right.Not saying this one isn't but only they can test it.We also didn't use our stats sheets as o I got this many hp ect. We used it to get a base run average stock and just get it up as high as we can safely.We also used to tell people don't claim any numbers because everyone will be off a little use the rising of the hp from tuning to get the max out and that's what a dyno really should be used for.They do read hp and torque ect and if calibrated right it can be trusted to be pretty close #s.I definitely think you bike has afr off as it shows those rich spots kill power.My buddy has the same bike stock and I ride a busa also and that bike is quick.You should definitely bring it back.Just hope that the warranty you signed won't be voided for adding aftermarket (considered motor parts) before break in period was over or they might not accept any but cosmetic.Hopefully no issues and that is a nice bike for all purposes pretty much.Would love to own one but I am waiting till I move next year.Hope all is well thanks for the vid.
working2Bselfsufficient It's not the dyno- We took this 1190 to it because his wife and I said it felt no faster than his 100hp vstrom...turns out it dynos the same! I think we've got it more dialed in at this point, but we've got to take her back and make sure. -TD
nutnfancy I think it could make 140-150ish at sealevel with a different filter and a better tune. Yes it is very low right now but it has a lot of things working against it.
Most people post dyno pulls to brag. Nutnfancy posts to keep manufacturers honest.
***** We thought it would be interesting for people to note- right now the 1190 is the 'best' all-arounder, besting the 1200 by virtue of speed and the multistrada by dirt capability. This is just a funky thing but if we were in the market we'd definitely want to know. We'll get it squared away. -TD
Nice to see a full dyno run, and not one of those 30 second videos!
Some notes from what I see as an experienced Dynojet dyno operator... There are a lot of factors that could be influencing what you are seeing numbers-wise.
Dynos are a comparison tool, best employed for diagnostics and checking before and after results (on the same dyno.)
KTM's numbers are going to SAE BHP; Society of Automotive Engineers Brake Horsepower. BHP is by definition measured at the crank, and no, a Dynojet dyno *does not* compensate for that.
Altitude: We have seen a solid 15% power loss of the same bike, same dyno (Dynojets own dyno truck that goes to all the AMA Pro races,) and same operator, from sea level to 5000 feet (Pikes Peak International Raceway. Tunes were optimized for both elevations; there's no way around less oxygen.)
With that filter and exhaust, you *will* need to remap the bike... Sorry, but it's just the case. I don't know what other options besides a Power Commander there are for that bike, but since you're hooked-up with a Dynojet dyno operator, I would go with the PC5; it'll be much quicker and easier for him to give you a good tune because of the way it works with his Dynojet set-up. (The bike cannot compensate for those changes since those runs are at full engine loading and therefore the fueling will be in open loop mode.) He will need to play with the air/fuel ratio to see what *your* bike likes; leaner *is not always* meaner.
Does the bike have a catalytic converter? If so, the dynojet exhaust probe will not give you accurate A/F raedings. You will need to either eliminate the cat or get a pre-cat sample (Hint: Use a Dynojet O2 Sensor eliminator, remove the O2 sensor, and make an adapter fitting that goes from the threading in the exhaust to a 1/4" compression fitting (hardware store plumbing item.) The copper tubing of the Dynojet exhaust probe can then be fitted directly to a pre-cat sample location.)
Plus all those other little variables that stack up like tire pressure, is the bike fully broken-in, the condition of his dynojet's drum, engine temp, air density (the Dyno Stack only goes so far,) etc. etc.
(Oh, and he needs a new inductive pick-up for his spark lead clamp, the ferrite on his is cracked. No impact on the numbers you're seeing, though. That'll just stabilize the tach reading on the computer, and reduce the number of aborted runs.)
But before you start going down all of those roads, get another KTM of the same model on that dyno; many of those aforementioned variables can them be mitigated, and tell you if you just have a bad bike... Short of a bike-to-bike, same operator, same dyno, same environment, you will not know.
It's probably due in part to mapping adjustments to meet your stricter emissions laws. My u.k spec 1190 was measured on a dyno at 154.4, only mods are an Akropovic exhaust and a stage one remap. A friend also had his tested on a different dyno @ 153.7 hp.
Good luck dealing with KTM N/A. I had a 990 Super Duke. The fuel tank cracked. Replaced under warranty 3 times. They refused to buy it back despite the fact that my house could have gone up in flames. The fumes in my garage were THAT bad. I was able to sell it and will never touch a KTM again.
I just bought a ktm 350 exc-f because of you. Love that bike. I hope you get your problem solved. This double owl says best of luck! !!
Man I'm totally bummed for you nutn. Hope Ktm takes care of you. Always appreciate the great content.
A new TNP vid, the day is suddenly looking brighter :).
Nutn, I'm stoked you finally picked up the 1190!! Hope you get the HP issue figured out, looking forward to seeing an update on this. And, of course, much looking forward to more 1190 Adventure vids to come!!!! Unfortunately I'm going to sell my current bike (2013 street triple) because I'm moving to freaking Altus Oklahoma (I know you're very familiar) and there's pretty much NOWHERE cool to ride out there. But either a 690 Enduro R, or the 1190 Adventure R is definitely in my future :)
Christopher Murri Enjoy Altus NOT! Nuttin to do there...
I've got the same problem. My KTM 1190 adventure R has been tested and produces just 115 BHP. I live at sealevel and it was a nice day around 60 degrees Farenheit or 15 degrees Celcius. Nice smooth curve though but disappointing when you've spent 18000 euros on a bike advertised at 150 BHP.
You modded the exhaust AND the fuel map. What do you expect?? How do the torque numbers compare to stock?
This man is clearly a professional. I appredicate that he doesn't make promises without testing,
I own a 2015 KTM 1190 and have 6,000 miles on it. It's very important that you dyno with a street tire on the bike. The knobby will slip the Dyno drum and reduce the reading by at least 10hp. Also, the UNI filter socks that go directly into the two intake snorkels are known to drop the horsepower a lot, too. The UNI system filters the air great, but you have to accept the horsepower loss. I recommend the Rottweiler Intake System for max power on your 1190. No dust issues and great horsepower gains. KTM claims 148hp, but there are credible readings out there closer to 135hp, stock.
Thanks for the bike vid, always appreciated. Bikes and guns. I'm not surprised by the dyno numbers though. You hear horsepower numbers thrown around all the time, but when they dyno them, tears...150 sounds like a tall claim.
I read about the 1190 adventure R in a magazine that said that there are different settings that adjust the horsepower. It was standard 150hp, but in offroadmode it was reduced to about 100hp. The bike is on sportsmode so there can be a electrical problem.
Did you have it in offroad mode?
Post up Nutn! I want one of these and am eagerly awaiting the solution to this.
Keep up the good work dude.
Looks to me like the factory might have adjusted the throttle linkage system poorly. Loose throttle cables seem to be quite a common cause of power loss in older cars. Granted, the bike's new and 50bhp seems quite a lot, but if the factory didn't adjust it properly, you just won't get the power out of it.
I think it's worth a look to see if the throttle opens fully or not
233kosta I'd have to double check but it felt like it was ride by wire.....I was guessing it was flashed with a crappy A2 license euromap and the dealer didn't know what they're doing. We've found shop rags in bodywork these guys left behind, so who knows what else could've been missed. At this altitude I'd be expecting 130 optimistically. -TD
nutnfancy I s'pose nobody uses direct cable linkages any more. My car has a cable linkage to the potentiometer and it's all digital past that, but it's 10 years old, I think it's all cable free now. If the dealer you bought it from has been messing with it, I wouldn't be surprised if they dicked up the ECU mapping. Is there any way to restore it to factory settings?
nutnfancy not sure on motorcycles but ive got a lot of dyno tuning experience on cars... basically if you put a pre made tune on a modded car you can lose 20hp... on my cobra I had full boltons and a tune and made about 20 hp less then stock 4 grand lighter... 300 dollars on a custom tune and made 45hp more then stock for a 65hp gain on the dyno... best money I ever spent... NO PREMADE TUNES they are junk!
*****
But is there a cable linkage between the handle and the potentiometer, or is the potentiometer mounted in the handle?
Hi Nutn,
Something similarly happened to me with a 1200gsa from years of touring and doing my own maintence. Anyways, I took off and put on the exhaust a few times and one time I notice a power decrease. Turns out that I did not a good seal from the manifold and the muffler. After correcting it, it felt like a new bike again! Hopefully this might be the problem for you too, because I see an after market exhaust on your KTM. Best of luck dude! Much love!
I didn't know Ron Jeremy was into dyno-tuning
If that is uncorrected horsepower at the rear wheel, then that is a pretty impressive number off an inertial, as opposed to a brake, dynamometer running at 4300' altitude.
The KTM advertised number is at the crank, using a brake dynamometer, and is corrected for standard sea level atmospheric pressure. At the crank means before all the parasitic power losses in the drivetrain (primary drive, transmission, final drive, Cush drive hub) and the rear tire. All that tire flexing, especially on a dunno drum consumes the HP. You can see the effect on a dyno plot just by altering tire pressure.
Running in lower gear on an inertial dyno also lowers the result, since more of the power is being consumed to spin up the entire drive train. A brake dyno runs to speed much more slowly and can even hold a constant speed, so that less or none of the engine's power is being transferred/stored in rotating drivetrain inertia.
If that was a corrected result, then you may have an issue, but with off-road tires, the parasitic HP loss can be extreme. 20% total might not be unrealistic. Fuel also makes a difference, so too engine oil. A engine not fully warmed up or a heavier grade engine and transmission lubricant will increase parasitic losses.
It sure is a shame that Harley threw Buell under the bus after so many years of preventing them from advancing their product.
The KTM is a great bike, but the naked simplicity of the air cooled machines still win out for me. Nothing worse than getting stuck in the desert with a leaking cooling system. Air cooled rules for preppers. :)
Great forum about the Buells at www.BadWeatherBikers.com.
Would like to see the test redone with MTC turned off as well. Can't help wonder if traction control is interfering with the bike reaching peak on the dyno.
Rick cracked me up with his is-what-it-is. He had that same look on his face Rasheed Wallace use to get when he'd go "ball don't lie"
"And unlike every other dyno video you see on youtube, we're actually going to explain what's going on here..."
Hah. This is why I love this channel.
I don't know if anyone has said this already but, that thing is seriously rich. The AFR is nearly 12:1. You can actually see the fuel trace go rich @ 4500 rpm and at the same time the power falls off and never recovers. And to also tell you something I wish I didn't have too, the dyno was not set-up correctly. The torque and power curves should intersect at 5252 rpm. ALWAYS. They didn't intersect until 8250 roughly. Is there some type of fuel controller on this bike that can be adjusted?
Air filter clogged?
Definitely head back to dealer with ur concern, keep us updated!
Any idea if you'll be posting a follow up vid soon? I'm very curious what you've done to it since then.
Not sure which Nutnfancy videos drive my wife crazier, the gun blasts or the motor bike sounds lol.
How about a detailed ''table top" for us non bike guy's.
Looking forward to the updates!
I am on the edge of my seat for the update. The 1190 is the bike I want some day. I am very disappointed to see your experience.
"...It's total SHIT!"
Hahahahahaha!!!
Would live to see the comparison Dynos on another KTM bike. Keep us posted Nutn!
Hate to hear about the VStrom. It is a great looking bike. I'm looking for a 50/50 off road adventure bike and enjoy your vids with the bikes. Looking forward to seeing some great adventure vids with the KTM
Definitely want to see follow up videos on this
Hey nutn, sorry youre disappointed man. I would check to make sure your fuel injectors don't have dust in them, also i would not use the euro tuner, you need to buy an aftermarket tuner if you want the best performance. I run a JD jetting EFI tuner on both my 2014 ktm 500 and my ktm 990 duke it makes a huge difference.
I used to own a Vstrom and a sold it a long time ago. Way too big and slow.
Hey nutn, love the vids man!!!! Keep up the good work brotha.
can't wait for the follow up vids on this
guns and bikes and 4 wheel drive,another great vid. love you NUT'N
Nutn, can't wait to see the update on this. That really is disappointing!
Thank You again for another great video
You should also try another dyno and use a rear slick (tire). It could be the dyno may be off or the tire is slipping on the dyno roller.. But if it feels slow it definitely might be. Next best thing would be to dyno another bike just like it on the same dyno to compare. It could also be that the EFI needs to be remapped because of the exhaust and air filter.
UOA=Used Oil Analysis it will give some insight into what is going on inside that motor.
My dad swears by paper filters to keep sand dirt out of the engine. If you want a clean engine paper is the way to go. Foam and fabric filters do not plug up as fast but they tend to let a lot more dirt into the engine. Dirt speeds up wear and tear on the internal parts.
I'm surprised Rick doesn't mention drive train loss, I can't imagine its nearly as dramatic on bike as it is in cars but it could account for some of the missing hp.
Changing the filter can affect how the motor breaths (bottleneck) and could be another part of the issue.
Ouch Dood that sucks. Let us know how it turns out. I have been very interested in the KTMs
nice little puppy :-D
greetings from cologne, Germany
arthur
Is that 68 Foot-pounds or newton-meter? 92 Nm for an 1190 is also quite low :/ swap the can, filter and tune it, that will do a lot!
I wonder if there is something wrong with the bike. A buddy of mine has one but it was dyno'd at 146hp. It could be altitude as well but we are over here in PA.
Quagmire88 Also fuel plays a HUGE factor in power. We might have better Fuel here on the east coast then they do out west.
tubefed420 This could be part of it. I know others out west with the same bike as me, (SV650s) that dont do very well compared to mine. Its rated for 74HP but if I had to guess, I'd say it would reach high 60s. But around a 50HP difference is very concerning.
Not finished with the video yet but I'm immediately thinking that you should count the teeth on your sprockets. Someone who lived on the highway with that bike may have went down a tooth in back or up a tooth in front, or both. Something like that would explain the blanket deduct on power.
"I think they have put in the Euro E2 map which is 100hp limited" quoted from trevor from motorcycle news Australia
Always been a bike guy, been without for a while but bought a 85 Suzuki gs550 for 50$ and got it rocking. Went through the hole bike, she all up to par with a lot of new. Got 800$ in it. Specs say 49hp. Going to ride it just because it's a bike. Cheap as new bikes are, might be looking for something like you have. Maybe not a ktm but something. Research will tell. Just stoked I have something right now.
That sucks. That's what my 99 vfr is running, but I at least knew that going in. Nice mouse pad at 15:33 by the way.
I would be sooooo pissed. KTM USA claims 148hp. Nope.... :(
I would check throttle adjustment. Does it open fully? Is sport mode the highest HP mode? If so, is it actually enabled in the ECU not just the dash? Is the new Air cleaner correctly installed? Is the ignition timing set correctly? Does it have an inbuilt break-in HP limiter that gets reset by KTM service module at first service?
ZeeWebbose Also check traction control isn't limiting the power because it senses the front wheel is not moving?
Maybe a dumb question, but at 1200 miles, is a bike with a motor that large (obviously there are much larger, but I'm used to dirt/dual sports) is it possible that the motor is not fully broken in?
I had one of these. Incredible bike. I road many times with a bunch of guys that had them. One kid from England that could make these bikes sit up and do tricks. Wait till you find out what it takes to pick it up when you're tired after riding a few hours. They are heavy. It takes a truly expert rider to handle this big a bike in rough terrain. Young helps too.
reed scott We've been picking them up, I got a little too far into some tight trails last week that were essentially a motocross woods practice area. It was def. not the best terrain for big bikes, had to practice my squats all day. Not so much fun, but after dropping into a valley there wasn't much way out. :/ TD
nutnfancy There's some really crazy mofos that ride these bikes. One thing I learned the hard way. The really hard way. Ride with people of like ability. It is literally life threatening to ride with people way beyond your ability. They will get you hurt and even killed. But then you probably learned that riding the bikes you had before. I wouldn't get too caught up in the HP lust. 106 HP is more power than all but the best riders can even handle. Let alone make use of.
But you got the right bike. BMW twins just can't match up to these bikes. Personally if I had to do it all over again I'd stick with a big thumper. So much more maneuverable and won't wear you out if you're committed to riding trails.
Nutn, in my younger days I owned an automotive repair shop with a dynomometer. We also did performance work.
KTM may be claiming 150hp to the flywheel, which may be the case here. You can expect a loss of about 1/5 of the total HP to the rear wheel, transmission, chain, wheel, etc., all cause loss of HP.
That being said you should get about 120hp to the rear wheel, showing on the dyno. 106hp, as you say, is disappointing, an issue somewhere.
Show another one I really want too see if the power changes
Hey Nutn. My heart aches for your bike troubles man. I had an 05 r1200gs, I currently have a 07 xchallenge and was thinking about getting another twin (because although I've done long distance/freeway speeds in the past on it, I don't want to ride my single to your next nutnfancy dinner (when will it be btw? What can be better than a bike, knife, and gun gear good times dinner??)) and have been researching the 1190. My first in-seat impressions when they first did test rides introducing the bike was that I liked the engine (I hit 90mph and wasn't even out of third yet getting onto the freeway. It was noticeably quicker than the GS. Like a GS + adding on a DL650. Trust your butt.) and suspension but for everything else I still preferred the GS overall: mostly handling, more weight down low and paralever related. I liked the low down torque/grunt and the way the bike tracked. I was thinking about going with KTM this time around (cause I like trying something new) and have been reading through the 1190 threads on Advrider. I know forums generally aren't all that helpful but there are a lot of good dudes on Advrider and they're generally very helpful. Granted there are trolls everywhere but can't do anything about them; focus on the good! I've seen a few similar threads relating to dyno numbers on the 1190 with more information coming in. You may want to look into Rotweiler (check out their dyno chart: cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-xk32d/products/92/images/488/1190_Rottweiler_Intake_System__94161.1409520693.1280.1280.jpg?c=2 ) or Powercell replacing the Uni. One guy had a really bad run with the Unifilter. advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1024448
Not sure if your bike came with a bad fuel dongle from the bike shop but that could be something too. Maybe when they flashed the ecu something got stuck or fried or just a bad map. It sounds like you've found the issue or on the right track and I know there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck, I'll say a couple of bike-bro prayers and will keep my eyes peeled for future videos and updates.
online the stock hp at the wheels is about 130hp 150 is crank. I live in herriman and today the density altitude according to my applied ballistics app is about 5500 feet. I see everything from about 9500 DA down to 1000 or maybe less, depending on temps etc. with that said usually you are about 3%/1000 feet DA down in power. take 16.5% from 130 hp and you are RIGHT ON WHAT YOU RAN if you ran the bike on the dyno today.
I can tell you right now that you need to find another dyno guy. there is no way in hell that an 883 is making 78hp at the rear wheel. That is a the power from a very well tuned 1200. i call BS on that all day long and I will gladly tell your dyno man that he is full of it. Someone took an 883/1200 conversion in there and didn't tell him. If he knows ANYTHING about HD he should have picked up on it right away. On its best day with cams and a hellacious tune, an 883 will struggle to make 60hp. Don't believe me?? Call Hammer Performance or NHRS Performance...the be all end all of XL tuners and racers.
And give your motor time to loosen up some. Take a compression test. If that seems to be in spec, the exhaust and MAP/Flash may be the issue. I have seen that many times too.
Your chart looks funny. Your HP/TQ should be the same numbers at 5252rpm, like every other engine on the planet.....what filter/scrolling is he using?? From the angle of your camera, the first one you posted, the lines didn't cross till 7K, then later in the video another shot shows them cross at 5252.
My other question is, how does he figure power train loss?? That is what a wheel dyno shows. You don't deduct anything else out...
That sucks!keep us updated
I'm only have way through the video but in the beginning you say it has a aftermarket exhaust and a new map? Maybe they tuned it wrong? That along with you doing something with the intake might account for the power loss. The intake and exhaust could lower HP but not 50HP but the map they put on it along with those things could! Maybe try the stock map and see if you gain anything back.
Sorry Mr Nutn, I bought a 2015 1190 R model 2 weeks ago and it flat out absolutely rips, and I have a 185whp zx10r to compare against. Your bike assuming you dont have 87 oct in it, it is surely screwed up somewhere in the mapping.
TheYoungConnoisseur BTW the unifilters dramatically reduce power, not 30hp tho!
I just sealed my airbox with permatex gasket goo and its locked up tighter than a virgin on prom night!
I LOVE the dudes mousepad :D
Nutn, check out the comments from the KTM CEO. This might not be an accident. Apparently their bikes are too dangerous for us.
What does it weigh? Its a pretty big bike. The power/weight ratio doesn't seem that good. Thinking about selling/trading my hayabusa for a adventure bike, but the pwrformance i've aeen with the adventure bikes just isn't cutting it for me.
Nutnfancy or tacticaldoodle I'm trying to decide between the Kawasaki KLR 650 or the Honda xr650l . I know there's fanboys for both of them. personally I lean a little bit towards the Honda becauseI had an XR 80 when I was 8 years old so I feel more comfortable with the prehistoric design of the Honda. but the klr according to their specs does get better gas mileage and is probably a better street bike it outweighs the Honda by about a about 80 pounds. but I'm only 5 11 and I weigh about 200 pounds so I feel I could throw the Honda around better in the dirt . I guess it just comes down to personal preference and what I'm going to use the bike for mostly. just curious about what your thoughts are since you have a lot of experience with dual sports and motorcycles in general . I understand what the differences between the bikes are spec wise . I've had a lot of different motorcycles myself thanks appreciate it
what's with the Alaska plates?
Im 5 mins in and I have to say, 106 isnt that bad. Things to consider: altitude (duh), airflow and exactly how constricted/ congested is the shop? At 4300 ft., you need open air. Id suggest a new filter.
And...wtf is up with air bags on a bike? That sounds awfully not cool to me. Id get rid of them, rely on your protective gear and put storage where that vacancy is. Best of luck, Nutn + crew.
RI, USA
Frankly I'm a bit disappointed, I would have expected your bike to have a minigun or at least some 2.75 inch rockets.
Wtf does not this app make my Samsung vibrate like crazy . play on shit quality and stutters ?!!!!!
Understandable, you are disappointed not getting what you paid for! But how much horsepower do you need on a bike? 106 HP seems like more than enough to me.
But he paid for more. 108 might be acceptable, but you can get it for less $$$
I understand that! I'd be pissed too! But that doesn't answer how much you need on a bike.
Blitz350 the answer is as much as you want. If you want a 5hp moped, that's how much you need. If you want a 650hp dragster, that's how much you need.
Blitz350 The bike offers a couple things the older one didn't- You get electronic aids, more power, etc. but the power is a pretty big reason. Sure you don't 'need' much, but how much 'need' can we prescribe to anything? How many people 'need' anything more than 99 hp in an econobox? In this case the extra power is great to give you freedom at highway speeds so you can more easily avoid situations you don't like. Getting boxed in by a couple semis and feeling strong gusts? Just power around it and preserve your car free bubble, y'know? carnut666's totally right- it's as much as you want, until the tech lords decide we're all limited to self-driving pool tables and public transit. :/ TD
Thanks! I understand better.
it seems that the mode switches are not right.
the offroad/rain modes are limited to about 100 hp.
seems strange that that would be the number on the dyno as well at the sport mode.
I wouldn't think that they exaggerate the power by 50%.
I would test the mode switching system before modifying anything.
also test the power with the MTC in the OFF mode and all other modes as well.
I'm not an expert in fact I don't own a bike. But from being a huge Top Gear fan it is quite common for cars even brand new to advertise more HPs than they actually have. I know they tested the 500 HP mustangs and only got 450 HPs. Also they have managed to increase HPs of a car by giving it a nice tune up which included taking the engine apart.
Why does it have an EU Map? is there a US map? and what MPG have you been getting?
And that more restrictive air filter will make a huge difference on top end.
A shame and a big disappointment...hope there is a good resolve to this issue...
Hy nutnfancy have you got the Offroad/Bad Fuel Dongle? It reduces the Power to ~100 HP. KTM needs 95+ Octan Patrol to run @ full Power. 95 Oktan is the lowest you can get in Austria.
This is gonna sound absolutely crazy but here goes. My r6 race bike was severely down on power and a friend on an identical bike could pass me like i was stopped on the straits. I checked everything and trust me i mean everything. After checking everything and finding nothing one day he told me replace the plugs it worth the few dollars just to write it off.... and I'm not kidding my r6 went from being passed by sv650's to blowing by my buddy... Also I'm not familiar with the uni filter but if you use a K&N run it dry or if your in a dusty place use very little oil. its pretty incredible how restrictive an over oiled k&n is. Hope this helps as simple as it sounds.
Jacob Blair Pretty sure it was the air filter on there, stay tuned for the exact fix. We've got it a bit better right now, but it still needs a once-over on the dyno. _TD
It looks like your settings seems to be stuck in "rain" riding mode! That lowers engine power with about 50HP
The Dyno Don't lie
Hate to say but the dyno numbers may be just fine. I assume they are rear-wheel horsepower. Just confirming what others have said.
If the factory is stating 150 hp, that will be crankshaft horsepower with no accessories. 17% powertrain loss gets you to 124.5 hp. Altitude derate of 4% per 1000 feet for a naturally aspirated gasoline engine (16% total) gets you to 104.6 hp. Right on the money.
There's actually a temperature derate above 60 degrees F but I assume the dyno will compensate for that.
You can argue about the derates, is it 3% or 4% for altitude? Is it 15% or 20% for powertrain? There's also error in the measurement on the dyno. Never compare numbers from different dynos.
FWIW - I've spent most of the last 40 years working on and operating industrial engines (and building motorcycles and automobile projects), even worked on some factory dyno equipment. Granted, not at 10,000 rpm. Industrial engines run at much slower speeds. Factory dynos I have experience with are electric generators or Prony brakes. Electric power goes to resistance elements (giant toaster elements). Power = volts x amps x generator efficiency. Prony brakes don't lie, they measure actual max torque at a given rpm.
Horsepower is kind of a BS thing to talk about but that's what everyone wants to know. It's a mathematical calculation using torque and rpm, it can't be measured directly. Torque and Hp are always equal at 5252 rpm (check it out if you don't believe...)
Torque is king. Torque, not horsepower, creates acceleration. The largest "area under the curve" in the operating range you want will give the best all around performance. Great peak numbers can be had from totally unusable engines.
The MoCo rates the HP on the crankshaft.. Thats with no electrical drag (746w=1hp) They also rate it without emissions tuning as shipped to America,,, 106 at the rear wheel at 4500' is pretty good for a stock bike. So add 25% to 28% more HP and it should come out close to advertised HP..
It's rated at 148 horsepower which considering you are at high elevation and have a possibly clogged air filter seems just in line with how much power it's making
There are EU Mappings for the 1190 that only enable 100 HP for Example the Mapping for France. Check this with your Dealer.....
i thought this vid was going to be boring but that night riding soo bad ass
Maybe it is as you said nutn, they de-tuned it for a reason.
In Australia the bike is marketed at 148hp as well, but maybe the 148 hp is actually the theoretical output than they are down tuned in order to meet emissions regulations or something along them lines. . Or maybe they use a similar method as cars, where though they might say you have "X" hp they fail to mention this output is actually under ideal environmental conditions and/or under computer simulation conditions that do not reflect different climates.
Could be a whole bunch of reasons, but i would not be surprised if they down tuned it in order to meet some horse shit regulation.
This was the K&N Filters airflow demonstration Rick was talking about.
www.knfilters.com/video/kn_airflow_dem.htm
Hey Nutn! I knew you would get one of these soon :)
Something is definitely amiss with your bike. I'm going to guess there is something going on with the mapping... Why did you have it remapped right off the bat? They are really good stock.
The Uni Filter robs some power but not THAT much. When they are running right they are SCARY fast...
DynoJet are the best dynamometers on the market. KTM's website claims 150 HP. That's more than my Honda Civic. I don't see how a motorcycle would have a 44 HP loss from the engine to the wheel. That's a lot! Best of luck nutnfancy getting the issue worked out. Hopefully it's something a warranty service can resolve. Great video and I love the car and motorcycle vids since I'm a gear-head. For air filtration, I'm a big fan of K&N filters. They always make more power and do an excellent job at filtering the dirt. www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=KT-1113
It's funny my wife tells our kids the same thing Rick says, "You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit."
Cyleworld did a test at .... 128.8 hp at 9,360 rpm and 81.3 pound-feet of peak torque at 7,670 rpm....mmmmm it's been said already but again fuel octane and the exhaust sapping power...that's the simple situation.
Is there any feeling difference between street and sport mode? Both claim 150bpm.
How customisable are the modes. Maybe the sport mode is set to to the lower setting or is it like the busa..... As u said test another standard model...
Checked the owners manual on page 180 it says the tc can change the torque...maybe have a play with that if you haven't already. I would asume tc to be off when on a dyno but I have so experience in this area so I'll be quiet now. Toiots
My spidy senses say that you've got a problem with your ignition system.
Exactly why I ride a Triumph Tiger; 65K and NO issues.
what is the advertised hp? Isn't it under warranty? Why not have the dealer test it?
KTMs looks nice and so do Harley's but I wouldn't want to pay for one. I'll stay with the V-strom dl1000 does nothing great but everything good. But I hope you figure out the issue.