Waning EV Demand in the US
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- David Sandalow from Columbia University's Center on Global Energy Policy, takes us through some of the reasons behind the dwindling demand for EVs in the US. He joins David Westin on "Wall Street Week" daily.
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High prices are the least of the problems with EVs.
The initial sales point is one consideration, but also resale value. The Porsche Taycan is selling for half its initial price after four years, while ICE Porsches are famous for how well they retain their value.
When people stop seeing EVs on sale for deep discounts after a couple of years, then they will feel more confident to buy one.
That should change when EVs start using LFP batteries. The old NMC batteries last ~ 100,000 miles. LFP will last 1 million miles.
@@mgronich948 In theory. Let's see how it works in real life conditions
@@mgronich948 >> That should change when EVs start using LFP batteries. > The old NMC batteries last ...
@@mgronich948 Secondly, the avg size of LFP battery packs are ~55KWh vs NCM ~75KWh. LFP outlasts NCM or NCA in stationary energy storage systems (ESS), not in moving electric vehicles (EV) because of different aging mechanism under different workload/env -- eg, higher c-rates, high SoC/Dod, variable ambient temp, etc, etc. LFP's use in a cycle-aging dominant application (ie, EV) means that LFP's longevity is compromised and won't last nearly as long.
Model 3 is using LFP
Make no mistake, people buying hybrids or plug-ins is NOT code for transition to EVs.
Uh inflation is the primary variable!!! People are not going to be buying or leasing any EVs soon!!!!
Faster depreciation is inherent to EVs for 2 main reasons: 1 the subsidies, tax breaks, carbon credits, ESG scores etc which drove the corporate fleet purchases, don't apply to the used/consumer market. And 2: battery degradation. The only reason the huge depreciation didn't show up for a couple of years, was because of lockdown supply issues, which temporarily artificially propped up used prices also.
I'll take a hybrid over an EV any day of the week.
i'll take ICE over hybrid as well...
Joke ByeDone is the EV President, he can go for 1hr then needs 5 days to Recharge
The media has done a fine job of propagandizing against EV's in the U.S. Big Oil and U.S. carmakers can use these tactics to temporarily supress sales, but EV's overwhelming benefits will prevail.....
Inaccurate click bait title. It's not "waning EV demand." The first thing he says is "demand for electric vehicles in the United States continues to grow". It's demand GROWTH that is slowing. If you want to report news accurately, change the title to "EV demand in the US continues to grow"
How about interest in EV’s is plummeting. That’s all you need to know.
If the demand grows why the Tesla and other sales are down by 10% even tho companies giving big discounts
@@GearUpindCar sales are down in 2024 period because automakers kept prices high. EV’s are still taking a larger market share than before.
@@GearUpind We actually don't know the Q1 2024 Tesla USA sales total, but 181k in Q1 2023. This video doesn't say Tesla sales went up. It says EV sales in the U.S. went up. Other automakers increased sales.
The number one selling car in the world in 2023 was a Tesla .
The only people who don’t like EV’s are ones that don’t own one. It’s the future whether you like it or not ..
Most 🇨🇳 Chinese EV manufacturers reported loss last year. Many went out of business.
- There were 500 electric car makers in China in 2019, now less than 100, a drop rate of 50% every year.
By this rate, China will have none left after a few years.
It will select a few giants from the initial 500. This is how market works. Competition.
@@cathie3874 : China doesn't believe in competition. The goal was not to select a few EV EOMs, but to protect the battery companies such as CATL/BYD from the getgo,
How are EV’s manufacturers in India? Oh that’s right you don’t have any
@@tooltalk lol. Chinese know competition way better and deeper than any other country in the world. You almost know nothing about China. Keep listening fake news until the end of your world.
@@mintheman7 lol; see videos of TATA motors and Mahindra's Electric vehicles, OLA electric scooter. Then you will know about Indian EV market
It is the cost, if you lower the price to $25K, there will be more demand.
Over 50% of households live in apartments, condos, townhouses, etc....they can't charge at home. Some buildings will install a few chargers, but not even close enough for 2% of the residents. Charger installation is expensive and the maintenance too.
There are no $25k cars anymore. Automakers kept the prices high and are wondering why there is no demand.
@@mintheman7 Yes, they just decided to keep prices high and not sell cars. It has nothing to do with rising fuel, materials, and labor costs.
yeah this is a cost problem, people aren't willing to pay $20k more for EV, when a hybrid does 95% of the job, no wonder hybrids are selling well right now, until the price comes down enough, this will be an issue
NO 2:50, We need more chargers in our apartments ! We don't all live in houses my friend ! Living in a house is a luxury.
people need to be realistic of the limitations of battery storage
But then again, people didn't used to depend on it to get to work or home. And running out of electricity didn't used to strand people in the middle of nowhere either.
The avg range of an EV is 250 mi. Most people will make a round trip that far from home in a year. People who own EVs in most cases also have an ICE car as well that they use for long trips. Mainstream buyers cannot afford this luxury of having an EV that is only practical for short commutes.
This is accurate in my case.
Over 50% of households live in apartments, condos, townhouses, etc....they can't charge at home. Some buildings will install a few chargers, but not even close enough for 2% of the residents. Charger installation is expensive and the maintenance too. Then you have a large number of homeowners who live in rural areas where 250mi range is not enough and they usually don't make enough money to buy expensive EV's and deal with the maintenance costs once warranty runs out.
250 mi round trip is only for “short commutes?” What fantasy world do you live in? 90% of people drive less than 40 mi per day.
@@mintheman7 Daily average doesn't matter. That one day a week or month you need to go more than 200mi is the problem.
@@safeandeffectivelol That’s why there are super chargers, 250kw charging speed means 250 miles added every 15 min. There are plenty of videos on YT of people showing how to charge on their road-trips.
EV demand has a short term disruption from people waiting for the Model Y refresh, lower production of refreshed Model 3 and the pivot by US OEMs to the NACS charging infrastructure. Why buy this current model year when it’s not on the go forward charging standard
Pretty sure that's not the reason. The average person just doesn't want them.
Gm had the Bolt and the Bolt EUV but chose to stop producing them.
Why? Not enough demand and/or losing money to every EV sold
The point I was making was that the speaker said there weren't enough affordable EV's on the market and part of the reason is that Gm stopped producing the Bolt. @@safeandeffectivelol
Apart from high purchase price, terrible rates of depreciation, long charging times, range anxiety, battery replacement costs that write the vehicle off at average eight years, battery fires and explosions complete with deadly gases, high environmental costs to produce EVs, high accident repair costs, ridiculous insurance costs, double the tyre wear, poor towing performance and higher overall maintenance costs... EVs are fantastic!
Aside from all of that, what have the Romans ever done for us?
@@pjeverly The aqueducts.
Apart from shear ignorance and regurgitating debunked talking points, what do you have to contribute to the discussion?
Misleading title 👎
Power outages caused by natural disasters is another example why we should never consider going 100% BEV. When hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, grid infrastructure was severely damaged, wind and solar projects were destroyed, resulting in national power grid outages for months. What was the main energy source for transportation and survival? Petroleum-based fuels! Once again, sustainable refueling must be included in the decarbonization plan side by side with recharging.
Electric cars end up on the back of a truck!
Tesla needs to advertise and educate people that their Model 3 can be bought for around $30,000 well below the average vehicle selling price.
You are so right. It's all about the price, not about demand. Lower price gets more demand.
Are regular consumers waiting for the rumored cheap Chinese EV?
@@mgronich948 : most American consumers aren't looking for $10K BYD's. They are looking for Ford F-15 EVs in the $50K/$60K range.
yeah it's always been a cost issue, automakers tried selling expensive EVs but they're realizing that people aren't willing to pay $20-30k more for them, when a hybrid does 95% of the job it should do, until the price comes down enough, this will be a major problem
@@danielzhang1916 : a few comments:
* EVs are expensive in the West because they have not yet mass-scaled/commodified battery supplies yet.
* Contrary to the US, most EVs sold in China are compact/small vehicles; the most popular vehicles sold in the US are full-size pickup/SUVs.
I think reality is setting in. Consumers are not ready to trade-in the convenience of ICE vehicles for that of EVs. Plus range and charging anxiety continue to be a problem for consumers. The bottom line is EVs are not ready for primetime.
The simple truth is there is no added benefit to the consumer from ICE vehicles on a practical level. They do the same thing. EV's accelerate faster and may help the planet. But day in and day out, I think people want to know why we are duplicating something that already works for them.
yeah the reality is we are not ready to fully switch over, this is a cost issue, people aren't willing to pay $20k more for EV, when a hybrid does 95% of the job it should do, price and charging are the two biggest concerns for buyers
@@pjeverly It's not about the benefit, most people are interested in EV but hesitate, because they're not willing to pay the higher prices upfront, it is up to the automakers to make the prices competitive enough
EV batteries needs to give 1000 miles per charge that’s when I will purchase EV, until then I’ll wait
Over 50% of households live in apartments, condos, townhouses, etc....they can't charge at home. Some buildings will install a few chargers, but not even close enough for 2% of the residents. Charger installation is expensive and the maintenance too.
@@safeandeffectivelol Thanks to 2017 tax cuts inflation about to sky rocket, especially shelter inflation, what hedge funds did with tax cuts, they didn’t hire people, hedge funds bought single family homes
Green screen ? Makes this look questionable.
PHEV (plug-in hybrid) are the natural evolution to full electric, not ICE straight to BEV.
Honestly I think hybrids are better than plug-in hybrids. Studies show that people are just driving them like ICE cars. So you get all the problems of both drive trains and none of the benefits. Consumer Reports did a study and plugin’s have twice the problems of a gas car on average.
@@brianm6965I drive my PHEV in EV mode 95% of the time because it’s cheaper than running on gas and had zero problems with either drivetrains after 8 years. All the benefits of EV (instant torque, low brake wear/dust, low running cost, etc.) without any range anxiety, ever. Don’t believe everything you read.
we should have done hybrid and EV at the same time, we were not ready to jump straight to EV, that's what a lot of people thought a few years ago, people were too quick to look down on hybrids/PHEV
@@brianm6965 that's because PHEV drivers don't understand how to use it, they think they just occasionally charge up, when they should be doing both together, which is how it is supposed to be
Why would I buy an EV? They removed basic necessities like turn signals and buttons to change the climate. Also the majority of people live in cities. Where are all these people supposed to charge? This is the most backward advance we made.
Not only that but these EVs aren’t even green. Look up what it takes to manufacture batteries at a mass scale.
It's normal to have market fluctuations in demand and supply, especially during growth phases. This is needless alarmism seeking attention for views. Click Bait. Interest rates effect everything. EV prices are falling. Fast charging infrastructure is increasing over time. This is a growth market. It wont go backwards. Rome wasn't built in a day. It's approaching game over for ICE vehicles. Their resale values will collapse once the latest battery technology is applied over the next few years, along with ubiquitous super charging networks. In 5 years time you will wonder what this idle chatter was about. It will be all but game over for ICE vehicles by 2030.
Only if ICE cars are outlawed, not because consumers stopped buying them.
I think there is a lot of confusion from the media, EV sales are still going, when most chargers can do full speed, then that will be the game changer, along with more stations urban and rural, we are just not quite at that point yet
Elon, aims to produce an electric vehicle with a 150-mile range priced under $20k. Make a 1000-mile range model and offer a subscription service for long-distance travel or renting long-range vehicles. Considering that most US drivers drive less than 50 miles daily.
EV's are a limited vehicle...They work great for some use cases. The early adopters came in and now the rest of us are looking at the equation and saying that we need to see significant discounts relative to ICE vehicles in order to even consider one. Honestly, battery technology would have to fundamentally change before the rest of us adopt...All of us have experienced cellphones and laptops with batteries that degrade over time...I can't unplug my laptop, because it will die in minutes. Why would you expect a giant lithium ion battery to be any different?? Disposable cars aren't going to save the planet and we will vote out any politicians that are trying to mandate this crap...
>> EV's are a limited vehicle.
I get comparing EV lithium batteries to cell phones but phone manufacturers have zero incentives to improve battery tech (or battery management for that matter). Most phones last a day with normal use and it’s a win for manufacturers if you have to replace the whole phone because it’s not charging that well. I’ve even seen battery life go backwards in the case of Samsung’s smart watches which used to go nearly 5 days on charge. They saw Apple can make a smart watch that doesn’t last a day and dominate so why bother.
On the flip side people, like yourself, are VERY vocal about battery issues on EV’s so there is every incentive to not even improve but prove there is improvement for EV batteries. Fundamental changes include cars that use LFP batteries that are on the road right now and the experiments going on with sodium based and solid state batteries. And then there is the battery management software. Cell phone and cell phone software design encourage us to abuse those NMC batteries while education and software allows us to baby EV NMC batteries. I wish my iPad’s software took better care of it’s battery as I use it plugged in all the time.
1000 cycle on a phone battery is 3 years; 1000 cycle on an EV is 300k miles., >20 years of driving for most people. Newer LFP batteries retain 80% capacity after 5000-6000 cycles, that’s 1.5-2 million miles. Not charging beyond 80% or drain below 20% also prolong lithium battery life by 5x or more. Please do more research yourself because cellphone battery is a false analogy.
@@brianm6965 That's a very good point. Thanks!
@@mintheman7 I appreciate your response, I will have to research LFP batteries more. I'm actually not an EV hater. I priced a Tesla 3 long range, but I frequently go up to the mountains on canoe trips. I used Tesla's trip planner and it was not remotely feasible. I would need something that can go about 400 miles up and down steep grades and not be impacted by the adiabatic temperature changes. My ICE vehicle can do that without a problem. It's about time to retire my ICE vehicle but I have not yet found a solution without buying an EV and keeping my ICE around for trips. With insurance what it is now thats not really economical either. If you know of such a vehicle, I would really appreciate it, because you are right I'm not an EV expert...
*Cybertruck is a niche product?* There are 2million pre-orders!
Agreed, but it will take a lot of years to make that many. And who knows who will follow through in 3-5 years. I have a reservation for one, but I'm slightly over 1,000,000 in the line. I'm not holding my breath for them to call me until at least 2028
Dear governments of the world, please understand that many people simply DON'T want to go EV no matter how much incentives or how many chargers you throw at us. Many consumers PERFER the time saving convenience of refueling and it has to be considered as part of the decarbonization plan.
For current ICE vehicles we need drop in fuels that are renewable, sustainable and carbon neutral; gradually infusing higher ratio blends of these with petrol based fuels as production ramps up.
Ole boy lost all credibility with me when he said “Inflation Reduction Act” with a straight face.
What happened to Tesla making an affordable vehicle for the masses? Bring down the damn prices
You couldn't pay me to drive a Chinese car.
You're poor so who cares
@@robocop581 lmao! Sure, I am. All my bitcoins are going to zero so you're probably right.
Let the U.S consumer decide. Why is the U.S government engaging in protectionism and trying to make baseless slander about Chinese EV's? Let the cars in and the U.S consumer will have the final say.
may I ask why? Chinese cars are objectively excellent, world class products. If you don't want to drive one because it's not American, then that's a different story.
I wouldn’t go near a EV - the price depreciation and battery life for used cars is completely unknown- no one in their right mind will buy a car which only has 100miles of range per charge after 10 years of battery life
As the vast majority of EV buyers are active politically liberal and progressive, the recent far right rantings of Elon Musk has caused many potential EV buyers to vow never to buy a Tesla as long as Musk is associated with Tesla.
Far right? Lol....just common sense.
nothing to do with Musk.. This year 2024 is going to be a rough year for a lot of EV companies.
How does that explain Fisker going bankrupt and Rivian not being able to increase sales? How does that explain poor EV sales for Ford and GM?
Ingat : Tesla bisa sebesar ini sekarang karena pabrik di China dan pasar di China.
Pertama kali Tesla di dirikan di Amerika dan dalam Keadaan Bangkrut. 😂😂
This guy is lying. EV market share for EVs is 7.4 down from 8.1 in 2023.
Imagine thinking that more charging stations will save EV's
My BS meter blew a fuse listening to this BS !
Meanwhile more are sold every year, some manufacturers are struggling cos of greedy pricing nothing more. Others are selling more cars than ever
columbia loony
Tesla, using Chinese CATL batteries, will be able to sell an electric car for under 40k USD with a 400 mile range. But the US Congress and their protectionists won't let it happen. This is scary Chinese ev tech will just get better and better because they have the biggest market in the world and will drive prices down, for quality vehicles, to levels the legacy auto makers will never touch.
>> will be able to sell an electric car for under 40k USD with a 400 mile range.
>> But the US Congress and their protectionists won't let it happen.
Were just waiting for the new battery the new formula from CATL can have the range of 650 miles and faster charging and have higher charging cycle until they roll out this battery I'm seating on sideline and wait.
Sure, wumao.
The next Battery revolution is always just around the corner. And it always will be.
@@pjeverly >> The next Battery revolution is always just around the corner. And it always will be. < <
Most laymen are so ignorant of battery or automotive development cycle. Everything we hear about today was developed at least 3-5 years old; then it takes another 2-3 year to mass manufacture them for use in consumer goods.
Increase DC charging along all highways, not in the city.
I will never own an EV for one reason:
You can't carry a nearly endless supply of electricity with your vehicle the same way you can fuel for an ICE vehicle. If there's an emergency, or you need to fuel your car for any reason mid trip, you can't do that with an EV...
Never.
Put a diesel generator in the trunk lol
@@safeandeffectivelol I might as well just drive the diesel at that point... more efficient
Atleast Europeans and Chinese will save the earth. Americans keep bickering for ever.
Mr. You don't get it! Americans don't want this EV crap...
NOT all Americans
Lack of options in America, too many options in China