Thanks 😀👍. I don't have the Decca anymore as I sold the gramophone it belonged with. I have since picked up a 5A, I use it in the comparison test in this video: ruclips.net/video/Cf38kDQiy7Q/видео.html Nice gramophones you have too! 😀👍
Thanks for that - I found your method made it easy to thoroughly hear the comparisons. I’m so surprised at the varying opinions I read because during each and every round I too found the Decca to have the fullest and most mellow sound, followed by the HMV5b- the others sounded tinny, with not as much dimension. I’ve read women are more sensitive to higher pitched sounds compared to men. That would be another experiment to try👍
Thanks 😀 👍. Yes, frequency range of your own hearing certainly affects the experience. I think it also depends on what type of speakers or headphones you listen to the video on. I've done a few others like this, including: ruclips.net/video/Me3WSV9OF9c/видео.html
Yes, the Decca is surprisingly good I agree. I sold this particular soundbox along with the machine it belonged to, but I picked another one up for restoration last year which should feature in a video at some point. Thanks 😀 👍
@@mrrgstuff I was once presented with a mini-gramophone. the membrane of the peproducer was destroyed. I made a paper membrane. it is a miracle. soft sound. the depth of the bass is expressed. this is a discovery, but only for amateurs. the time has gone. 👍✌🖑🖑🖑🖑❤
@@SuperBogdan2010 Yes paper can work very well although I have not tried it myself. I have done video of several experiments using plastic and metal diaphragms in my own soundboxes. Some of the real gramophones/phonographs did actually use paper when they were made. Thanks 😀 👍
There is quite a lot of needle buzz with the lid up, You would get a better comparison if you closed the lid and just recorded the sound coming through the horn. I usually use an HMV 5B on my model 157 gramophone but a No.16 sounds pretty good and plays without any buzz. They originally came with portable gramophones but can sound a bit harsh on them. Also copyright on sound recordings expires in the U.K 50 years from publication so you should have been OK playing the whole record.
Thanks, yes having the lid down really makes a difference and it's how I use this gramophone for actually playing records. I think in this case it was a compromise between a sound quality test and an interesting looking video, although to be honest I didn't really think about it at the time. I ought to go read exactly what UK copyright law says at the moment, as some of the 50 year stuff got converted to 70 year to align with the EU, but I can't remember if that included music or not. Anyway thanks for the comments. I have done some other sound comparison tests including ones with home made sound boxes and in general love playing around with and building gramophones type equipment 😀
Thanks 😀 👍. Had a quick look at the government website. I knew there was something about being 70 years after the death of the author, but that doesn't seem to apply to recordings, which as you say is 70 years 😀
@@RichardPGE The copyright for sound recordings from before November 1963 is 50 years. The 70 years comes from the copyright law being altered, coming into effect on 1 November in 2013. But it was applied non-retrospectively so that recordings from 30 October 1963 or before, which had already gone out of copyright, would remain out of copyright. The last commercially pressed 78 RPM record in the U.K was "Money" by Barrett Strong from 1959 so all U.K 78 RPM records (apart from a few recent novelty records) are out of copyright.
quality first, then condition, and age of disk comes into play. Your number 4 sounded best to me, new gaskets and it will be sweet. The little songster will be last, it's sounding good compared to the others, because they all need work.
Thanks. I was supprised by how well the No. 4 sounded, but I have bought a new gasket for it so just need to fit it. The songster is of a cheap portable and to me sounds like there is some addittional high pitched surface noise, and indeed the No. 5 isn't perfect in that respect either. I had read that the No. 5 was hard to service so I don't have any plans for that at the moment. In real use I play with the lid down as that seems to help.
@MadScientist267 The HMV was a much more expensive soundbox I think. I don't have that particular Decca anymore, but have bought an identical one which may get serviced at some point. Will be interesting to see exactly what's inside it! 😅. Thanks 😀 👍
I have a HMV 101 with the original No.4. Unfortunately, the No.4 at the connection end to the tonearm broke. I cant fine a No.4 anywhere around. Which other sound box would fit and where could they be available? I am in India.
Before the No.4, HMV made a No.2 and the 'Exhibition' soundbox, both of which will fit. Unfortunately, these are rarer than a No.4. Some other companies also used the same fitting as HMV, so you may be able to find one of these. The later HMV 5a and 5b used a larger fitting, so are not suitable. I can't really advise where to get a soundbox in India. HMV did make lots of machines there, though things like motors and soundboxes were imported from England. I have this machine I believe was made by HMV in India: ruclips.net/video/18WXd65E7ow/видео.html Thanks 😀 👍
The Songster would have been the cheapest and the HMV 5b the most expensive, however it is interesting to see that opinion do vary on which is 'best'. Thanks 😀👍
This is one of my older videos. I have moved onto using a Zoom H1n mic inserted into the horn which means I don't get the surface noise from having the lid open. This is a more recent video: ruclips.net/video/Me3WSV9OF9c/видео.html More details of the process can be found here: ruclips.net/video/enL8aqAY3hc/видео.html Thanks 👍😀
It's an HMV 162 gramophone. I have a couple of these - this one now lives in my workshop for recording and testing soundboxes. You might be interested in these videos: ruclips.net/video/v2jbnfzVWVg/видео.html ruclips.net/video/18WXd65E7ow/видео.html Thanks 😀👍
Great! Thanks for let know. To be an acoustic machine the improve of sound is enormous. I just got a Victor-Victrola 1911, and i was thinking to attach one of these reproducer, cause sound quality does not make me happy. The Decca and HMV are the best ones and improve the experience with this machines.
Yes, its a good point, though in this case I believe this Decca soundbox predates the use of Meltrope ones. I don't have the Decca one anymore however it was Swiss made and for some reason I think it was a rebranded Paillard one, though I can't be sure. I do have a Meltrope III, branded Selecta (I think) now also. Thanks 😀 👍
@TheRadsha I've tried to look up this soundbox, and whilst I haven't found an exact match, the Thorens No.15 Primaphonic is certainly similar looking, so I would agree that it's a Thorens. I found this site which has lots of useful catalogues: www.graphonogram.com/4-documentation.html#form It does look from there that Maestrophone was a Paillard name, so I would expect Maestrophonic to be so also 🤔
A lot of British made sound boxes were sent out to India by HMV and I would think you would be able to buy one locally more cheaply than from the UK. Nothing I have is for sale. Thanks
Yes, I liked the sound of it too and it fitted the HMV quite well. I had redone the rubber seal and it was a fraction loose on the Decca gramophone afterwards. I've sold the Decca so I'm using the No. 5 (which needs a paper shim to fit) until I rebuild the No. 4.
The Number 5 wold have been my second choice,, and so it's not surprising to me you're using it! :-) Weren't the Decca ones built slightly differently to accommodate electrical recordings being much later? I always thought they were more powerful than the earlier ones for the earlier recordings - they seem to play a lot louder too.
I think all except the No. 4 are from the electrical recording period. They all have metal diaphragms which cope better with the extended frequently response of the electrical recording. The Decca sound box is certainly loud and despite being a cheap example definitely worth having. I sold it along with the Decca 100 gramophone, but I have another Decca and sound box which I may use. Mostly now I'm using the HMV 162 as the motor can play both sides of a record (even 12") on 1 wind.
Agreed; I find the HMV Motors pretty good at handling more than one record on a single wind. I do have a Gramophone that will play (at a push) 3 - 4 records on one wind - I can’t think which one it is now as I have several, but will let you know next time I play it. I have a couple HMVs, a Gilbert, (beautiful model) an unnamed, a Tri-ang and another somewhere. I should not be watching these kinds of videos - otherwise I shall be purchasing more still! LOL
My HMV has the 2 spring 32 motor and although I haven't properly tested it I think it would play maybe 3 10" sides on 1 wind. I understand the 4 spring 34 motor will do 25 minutes continuous play! The Decca 100 needed s full wind per 10" side. The HMV motor suffers s little from sticky grease so it occasionally thumps but only when it is mostly wound down. I can see you are developing a bit of a collection though! :-). I have various other machines mainly not currently in working order. Videos for the future. They are very tempting to buy though I agree. :-)
Thanks. Yes, the Decca is good and I was sorry to see it go, but I sold it along with the Decca Salon 100 gramophone as it seemed wrong to split them up. It's a common model though and I may buy another one in the future. I mainly use the HMV No.5b, but the No.4 also sometimes gets used as I have two HMV 162 gramophones and they both get used from time to time. Thanks again 👍😀
Thanks. There does seem to bit quite a lot of personal preference with this. The Songster would have been a relatively cheap option, but does seem to do quite well. 😀👍
The Decca does sound great 👍. I sold the Decca with the gramophone it came with, however I have recently picked up another one which I need to rebuild: ruclips.net/video/edZs0FSsXPc/видео.html Thanks 😀 👍
It's a great sound box comparison test. I own 145 and 193 with 5A, but DECCA sounded good on your test.
Thanks 😀👍. I don't have the Decca anymore as I sold the gramophone it belonged with. I have since picked up a 5A, I use it in the comparison test in this video:
ruclips.net/video/Cf38kDQiy7Q/видео.html
Nice gramophones you have too! 😀👍
Thanks for that - I found your method made it easy to thoroughly hear the comparisons. I’m so surprised at the varying opinions I read because during each and every round I too found the Decca to have the fullest and most mellow sound, followed by the HMV5b- the others sounded tinny, with not as much dimension. I’ve read women are more sensitive to higher pitched sounds compared to men. That would be another experiment to try👍
Thanks 😀 👍. Yes, frequency range of your own hearing certainly affects the experience. I think it also depends on what type of speakers or headphones you listen to the video on. I've done a few others like this, including: ruclips.net/video/Me3WSV9OF9c/видео.html
Not sure I should have listened to this just prior to going to sleep!
I think the Decca and the hmv no5b sounded the best, the Soundster was good but had too much distortion in the loud sections.
Yes, the Decca is surprisingly good I agree. I sold this particular soundbox along with the machine it belonged to, but I picked another one up for restoration last year which should feature in a video at some point. Thanks 😀 👍
Very pleasing to watch :-)
Thanks :-) It was fun to do - but took ages!
N1 - Decca
N2 - HMV
N3 - Songster , No 4
Thanks 😀 👍. That Decca was great, but I sold the gramophone it came with, so the soundbox went with it too.
@@mrrgstuff I was once presented with a mini-gramophone. the membrane of the peproducer was destroyed. I made a paper membrane. it is a miracle. soft sound. the depth of the bass is expressed. this is a discovery, but only for amateurs. the time has gone.
👍✌🖑🖑🖑🖑❤
@@SuperBogdan2010 Yes paper can work very well although I have not tried it myself. I have done video of several experiments using plastic and metal diaphragms in my own soundboxes. Some of the real gramophones/phonographs did actually use paper when they were made. Thanks 😀 👍
There is quite a lot of needle buzz with the lid up, You would get a better comparison if you closed the lid and just recorded the sound coming through the horn. I usually use an HMV 5B on my model 157 gramophone but a No.16 sounds pretty good and plays without any buzz. They originally came with portable gramophones but can sound a bit harsh on them. Also copyright on sound recordings expires in the U.K 50 years from publication so you should have been OK playing the whole record.
Thanks, yes having the lid down really makes a difference and it's how I use this gramophone for actually playing records. I think in this case it was a compromise between a sound quality test and an interesting looking video, although to be honest I didn't really think about it at the time. I ought to go read exactly what UK copyright law says at the moment, as some of the 50 year stuff got converted to 70 year to align with the EU, but I can't remember if that included music or not. Anyway thanks for the comments. I have done some other sound comparison tests including ones with home made sound boxes and in general love playing around with and building gramophones type equipment 😀
@@mrrgstuff I think the 70 years only applies to recordings not currently in the public domain so that shouldn't affect gramophone records.
Copyright expires after 70 years in the UK so if the recording is over that age then you are perfectly within your rights to use it .
Thanks 😀 👍. Had a quick look at the government website. I knew there was something about being 70 years after the death of the author, but that doesn't seem to apply to recordings, which as you say is 70 years 😀
@@RichardPGE The copyright for sound recordings from before November 1963 is 50 years. The 70 years comes from the copyright law being altered, coming into effect on 1 November in 2013. But it was applied non-retrospectively so that recordings from 30 October 1963 or before, which had already gone out of copyright, would remain out of copyright. The last commercially pressed 78 RPM record in the U.K was "Money" by Barrett Strong from 1959 so all U.K 78 RPM records (apart from a few recent novelty records) are out of copyright.
quality first, then condition, and age of disk comes into play. Your number 4 sounded best to me, new gaskets and it will be sweet. The little songster will be last, it's sounding good compared to the others, because they all need work.
Thanks. I was supprised by how well the No. 4 sounded, but I have bought a new gasket for it so just need to fit it. The songster is of a cheap portable and to me sounds like there is some addittional high pitched surface noise, and indeed the No. 5 isn't perfect in that respect either. I had read that the No. 5 was hard to service so I don't have any plans for that at the moment. In real use I play with the lid down as that seems to help.
I'd like it if the HMV and Decca had a baby... the Decca has a better "body" but the HMV is definitely much brighter and crisper.
@MadScientist267 The HMV was a much more expensive soundbox I think. I don't have that particular Decca anymore, but have bought an identical one which may get serviced at some point. Will be interesting to see exactly what's inside it! 😅. Thanks 😀 👍
I have a HMV 101 with the original No.4. Unfortunately, the No.4 at the connection end to the tonearm broke. I cant fine a No.4 anywhere around. Which other sound box would fit and where could they be available? I am in India.
Before the No.4, HMV made a No.2 and the 'Exhibition' soundbox, both of which will fit. Unfortunately, these are rarer than a No.4. Some other companies also used the same fitting as HMV, so you may be able to find one of these. The later HMV 5a and 5b used a larger fitting, so are not suitable. I can't really advise where to get a soundbox in India. HMV did make lots of machines there, though things like motors and soundboxes were imported from England. I have this machine I believe was made by HMV in India:
ruclips.net/video/18WXd65E7ow/видео.html
Thanks 😀 👍
HMV 5b is loudest and Songster is a bit muffled. The other two sound very similar
The Songster would have been the cheapest and the HMV 5b the most expensive, however it is interesting to see that opinion do vary on which is 'best'. Thanks 😀👍
Should record from horn. Close the lid to reduce chatter from soundbox
This is one of my older videos. I have moved onto using a Zoom H1n mic inserted into the horn which means I don't get the surface noise from having the lid open. This is a more recent video:
ruclips.net/video/Me3WSV9OF9c/видео.html
More details of the process can be found here:
ruclips.net/video/enL8aqAY3hc/видео.html
Thanks 👍😀
What kind of machine are you using for this experiment?
It's an HMV 162 gramophone. I have a couple of these - this one now lives in my workshop for recording and testing soundboxes. You might be interested in these videos:
ruclips.net/video/v2jbnfzVWVg/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/18WXd65E7ow/видео.html
Thanks 😀👍
Great! Thanks for let know. To be an acoustic machine the improve of sound is enormous.
I just got a Victor-Victrola 1911, and i was thinking to attach one of these reproducer, cause sound quality does not make me happy.
The Decca and HMV are the best ones and improve the experience with this machines.
Yes, fitting a later reproducer may improve the sound quality. Good luck and thanks 😀👍
I believe the Decca box was a Meltrope design, Deccan bought Meltrope out and produced the box with their own logo on it.
Yes, its a good point, though in this case I believe this Decca soundbox predates the use of Meltrope ones. I don't have the Decca one anymore however it was Swiss made and for some reason I think it was a rebranded Paillard one, though I can't be sure. I do have a Meltrope III, branded Selecta (I think) now also. Thanks 😀 👍
The "Decca" Soundbox is in real is a Thorens Maestrophonic No. 8. Made in Swiss for Decca 😉
Thanks 😀 👍. Although, if it's a Maestrophone, isn't that a brand Paillard used? 🤔
@@mrrgstuff No, Paillard use totally different soundboxes. Maestrophonic was the name of Thorens sounboxes
@TheRadsha I've tried to look up this soundbox, and whilst I haven't found an exact match, the Thorens No.15 Primaphonic is certainly similar looking, so I would agree that it's a Thorens. I found this site which has lots of useful catalogues:
www.graphonogram.com/4-documentation.html#form
It does look from there that Maestrophone was a Paillard name, so I would expect Maestrophonic to be so also 🤔
The hmv 5b and 4b sounded the best
Thanks 😀 👍. I have done a few more tests since this video. You might like the comparison in this one:
ruclips.net/video/Me3WSV9OF9c/видео.html
I want to purchase two Sound Box British made, size 15 number yani little what will Indian price. If will cheaf I will purchase. I am. a poor man.
A lot of British made sound boxes were sent out to India by HMV and I would think you would be able to buy one locally more cheaply than from the UK. Nothing I have is for sale. Thanks
5B. You hear more frequences
Thanks 😀 👍. It is a nice soundbox
@@mrrgstuff I have this soundbox 🎵👍🏼
@@soja9305 What machine do you have it on? Thanks 😀 👍
@@mrrgstuff HMV 102
Very nice. I have a 101, but its not working yet. It only has the No.4
For me the Decca came out on top! :-)
Yes, I liked the sound of it too and it fitted the HMV quite well. I had redone the rubber seal and it was a fraction loose on the Decca gramophone afterwards. I've sold the Decca so I'm using the No. 5 (which needs a paper shim to fit) until I rebuild the No. 4.
The Number 5 wold have been my second choice,, and so it's not surprising to me you're using it! :-) Weren't the Decca ones built slightly differently to accommodate electrical recordings being much later? I always thought they were more powerful than the earlier ones for the earlier recordings - they seem to play a lot louder too.
I think all except the No. 4 are from the electrical recording period. They all have metal diaphragms which cope better with the extended frequently response of the electrical recording. The Decca sound box is certainly loud and despite being a cheap example definitely worth having. I sold it along with the Decca 100 gramophone, but I have another Decca and sound box which I may use. Mostly now I'm using the HMV 162 as the motor can play both sides of a record (even 12") on 1 wind.
Agreed; I find the HMV Motors pretty good at handling more than one record on a single wind. I do have a Gramophone that will play (at a push) 3 - 4 records on one wind - I can’t think which one it is now as I have several, but will let you know next time I play it. I have a couple HMVs, a Gilbert, (beautiful model) an unnamed, a Tri-ang and another somewhere. I should not be watching these kinds of videos - otherwise I shall be purchasing more still! LOL
My HMV has the 2 spring 32 motor and although I haven't properly tested it I think it would play maybe 3 10" sides on 1 wind. I understand the 4 spring 34 motor will do 25 minutes continuous play! The Decca 100 needed s full wind per 10" side. The HMV motor suffers s little from sticky grease so it occasionally thumps but only when it is mostly wound down.
I can see you are developing a bit of a collection though! :-). I have various other machines mainly not currently in working order. Videos for the future. They are very tempting to buy though I agree. :-)
Hormis l’écoute de l’HMV 5b de la vidéo, la meilleure que j’ai entendu en réelle dans une brocante, c’est exactement ce modèle.
Thanks 👍😀. My 5B sounds quite good, but maybe not as good as when it was new.
1.Decca
2. HMV
3. Songster
4. NO. 4
Thanks. Yes, the Decca is good and I was sorry to see it go, but I sold it along with the Decca Salon 100 gramophone as it seemed wrong to split them up. It's a common model though and I may buy another one in the future. I mainly use the HMV No.5b, but the No.4 also sometimes gets used as I have two HMV 162 gramophones and they both get used from time to time. Thanks again 👍😀
The songster sounded best to me
Thanks. There does seem to bit quite a lot of personal preference with this. The Songster would have been a relatively cheap option, but does seem to do quite well. 😀👍
No 4 best
Thanks 👍 😀
Decca!
The Decca does sound great 👍. I sold the Decca with the gramophone it came with, however I have recently picked up another one which I need to rebuild:
ruclips.net/video/edZs0FSsXPc/видео.html
Thanks 😀 👍
No 4 for me
I don't use the No.4 at the moment as I keep meaning to change the gasket on it. I'm sure it will sound even better after that 😀
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