How to Understand Divine Darkness: Being in Nothingness
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Taken from October 2023's Patron-Only Q&A. Support for access.
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Its being constantly in the moment. No worrying about your life. Being you without desire or regret.
The term “divine darkness” has such an odd connotation for a gen z like me. I think of the pattern you described as what Christ put…. Who ever wants to gain his soul has to lose it.
You are helping me piece things together so much I'm stunned at how clearly I'm beginning to see things. God bless you Jonathan!!
The sunlight and soil nutrients have subsumed to wood, the wood has subsumed to chair, the chair has subsumed to you watching Mr. Pageau graciously edify us. Follow the chain eternally to the top.
Thanks for sharing it. I once had a metaphysical experience. I was in this divive darkness and felt the presence of God. I struggled to find a biblical explanation on it but never doubted about its divinity. Explaining it, you brought peace to my human (flesh)/being (spirit) relationship.
me too,i had such an experience.
I can see why this space is so dangerous and has been misunderstood so often.
I studied the reasons why Japan was part of WWII, and a big part was that the emperor blended himself with the teachings of Buddha. Zen became a doctrinal weapon for the emperor to control his populace and his army. They were brainwashed into meditative states where the will of the emperor was the same as the Will of Buddha, and of the gods.
The meditative state that was forced on these kids (because many of the pilots who slammed into Pearl Harbor were very young) was one of “No Mind”, in the sense that if they stopped thinking, the will of the emperor would enter their bodies and they would enact that will perfectly.
The purpose of the chair is to be a chair. The purpose of the soldier is to be the sword of his master.
No think, just do.
So it’s in these terrifying liminal spaces that we have to be careful. Are we going down into darkness, or up into darkness?
Sounds exactly how christian and muslim warmonging nations do with their soldiers. Many examples in this very day.
To be the fullest of who and what you are is to let go of all of yourself. This fully integrates you into Being.
Well said!!!
A traffic signal, a stop sign. Fulfilling it's purpose, it's being itself to the fullest. It's the highest form of humility. It's the cross of those things we can say. An eternal flow state as few commenters have pointed out.
Thanks Jonathan.
So is this the same thing as surrendering ourselves to God? Amazing 👏
Could this also be applied t "being in the zone" or "flow"? Where you do something like write/dance/workout etc without much or any conscious thinking, and usually this is when you do it best?
There is something holy about it in my intuition, it's the purest mode of being in some ways., especially if it's your god given talent. Like I'm sure Jonathan gets this way at times carving his icons.
I agree wholeheartedly! Flowstate is a briljant example. It reminds me of the idea of kenosis and even how beauty workd, a experience or event that grants a self-forgetting liveliness to the participant. The selfforgettingness is grounded in the selfsacrificial nature that God is, as disclosed @ calvary & within the selfgiving nature of the Trinity. That the Father's "I" is utterly forgotten in His kinda mutual flowstate relation to the Son. Just like habing to exhale in order to breath, the rhythm of life is charity unimaginable, even at the level of the "I"/self (as phenomina like flowstate affirm). It's partaking in the Triune dance that is God. The Divine Darkness is dark because all colour or ideas or conceptions or propositions are forgotten, even the self in a supra flowstate that livens us and paradoxically connect us to God and creation. It's sooo lovely. Not nihilistic though, as Pageau said, cause kenosis makes us more ourselves than we could ever imagine. I personally think that the buddist term of sunjata and things like Nirvana are half truths of a Trinitarian mystery upon which reality & life is grounded. But that's just me
And I think that Pageau would agree with you too, at least to some extent. Because, as you might now, he dialogues alot with Dr John Vervaeke (the 4E cognitive scientists who examins things like flowstate and who's theological propsitions greatly parallel classic-theism). Topics like these have been discussed between the two and posted online
This purest mode of being is grace, its given, know what you talking about
@@Teofilakt_Einterteinment ofcourse it's grace, and ofcourse it's given. Just as much as we receive & partake in existence, because of the Ground of being's charitable generosity in giving it to us, so too are all selfforgetting or flowstate experiences graciously pouring out from the same Triune God in kindness & abundance. We share in the Divine Darkness , and various forms such as flowstate or awe & wonder testify to that, because He wills it so. Not a thing that exists is not given by the Father.
limit experience..
Is this Divine Darkness the same as the Nirvana which Buddhists are after? Or is that more like lower darkness?
The Void.
This is the first ive heard of this, so forgive me for my ignorance, but it occurs to me that (probably) the most holy or complete expression of this upper darkness would be in perfect love.
That is to say, take any kind of love (agape, eros, storge, or philia) and in any perfect expression of that love, the lover has ultimately lost themselves in their expression to their beloved. Much like a camera is necessary to take a photograph, but is not present in the actual photograph (and instead, all that is visible is that which is being photographed, or one could say the beloved).
I dont think it is too far to suggest that God did this when he created the universe or that Jesus did this when he died on the cross, or when any one of us do this when we commit ourselves to selflessly loveing one another in whatever form our relationships dictate.
Oh my
Haha you clipped it yourself and it's definitely not giberrish. On the contrary this was very well put in my opinion. But is this some sort of fringe concept then in orthodoxy and iconography in particular ? It seems to me that black spaces often refer to lower, physical, "evil/death" darkness. But following the idea of Divine darkness could we then envision, idk, icons with a dark background instead of gold? Would that be dangerous? How could we distinguish, picturally speaking, between the two types of darkness?
The darkness, no matter the location can be utilized for purposes of creation. When The Holy Grail is filled with the Light of Source or ecstatic Love, then the greater the magnitude of such creation.
Can we then say that the Cross is the ultimate expression of the "upper/Divine darkness"? The death of the God-Man, deicide. The greatest and darkest of crimes and yet the opposite of a nihilistic event.
Man, you are so wise, we're so blessed to have access to your influence. After my descent, ecstasy began to feel like mania to me; it was basically like a trauma response to using the more sympathetical/social part of my being. At that point in time, all forms of acting out things felt like pure performance, and I essentially ended up triggered by.. living lol or submitting to a higher being. I'm still more attuned to stasis, but I've been conceptualizing the idea of "performance" (or "disappearing into functionality") through the idea of the horcrux... This applies mostly to being online as in person the socializing seems to happen naturally for me, thankfully. Thank you for your clear insight Jonathan!
The Black Sun
After a second time listening to this I started to understand a bit more. Very interesting, thank you for the upload Jonathan!
So when something (like a chair) blends in so much that it is "not there anymore" because there is no disruptive attention-call, then it is in its most useful most functional most high/holy state!
I can confirm this observation by my own experience of myself and the world, like everything working perfectly when in it is in a natural state of flowing non-resistance and without "second guessing", also reflected in the taoist concept 'wu wei'.
Thank you for your comment. It’s helped me arrive at a very valuable insight.
This also implies an unholy chair is one that won't let us forget it's there.
@@paulferner2826 haha yea, probably because/when it is strikingly ugly and doesnt serve its purpose (as a chair) well
Being a hermit monk and being a homeless fentanyl zombie are both examples of retreating from the world and the self into the darkness, but they are worlds apart.
Very good insight.
Isn't this what the Buddhists teach?
All real mystics do.
shi-va
Excellent
The cloud of unknowing. The chair analogy nailed it.
Hmmm, this sounds like the correct/ non-demonized version of what my former spiritual mentor was teaching, but way less complicated & convoluted.
Haven’t been catching up on the TubesYou for a long time. This video caught my eye, strange because it’s so dark. Looking forward to this Jonathan. This is extremely random but i had a dream 3 years ago about a strange concept “God’s Dog” and it being extremely powerful despite me not having a clue what it meant, just that I have a strong love for dogs. But then you posted about your cartoon mere weeks later… Pretty crazy.
interesting interpretation. How do you guys understand 1 John 1:5:
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
I would say that in John's gospel "light and darkness" are used as categorical terms for "truth/false - good/evil" duality. Its very important to understand that the ineffable cannot be grasped and framed by forms of the mind. Semantics can only gesture to their realities. In Jonathan's case, he is using the terms to distinguish things that can be known through the forms and things that are ineffable. So, they are talking about different things.
Thanks Jonathan 😎
It is not paradox. Very clearly and beautifully stated
How can you say gibrish????? You’re speaking perfectly!! I’m crying
Jesus equated us to a seed that must die to self to find life. As a seed is planted in the ground it is a kind of death but it results in a new plant.
Thank you 🙏 I got it ❤
I wish you had said more about the relationship between the lower darkness and the higher darkness.
The thief on the left of Christ seemed to be going down the lower darkness but he ended up in the highest place. How did this reversal happen?
Also, Christ himself seems to be somehow participating in both in the death of the cross.
Left from whose perspective?
I meant right@@Ggdivhjkjl
I hope I can understand this one day 😅
Careful which darkness one moves into.
It's not deep thought if it can't be clipped as gibberish 😉