The iris on the original is round and produces round soft bokeh in front of the plane of focus. The replica produces ninja star bokeh in front of the plane of focus. The lenses were designed for the rendering of form, not sharpness. My initial feeling on the replica is that it doesn’t quite have the feel of form as the original. I’m not one with the patients for tests, but I will get back when I have more experience with the “replica”. The CSPs do well taming high contrast situations with out turning shadow detail to mush, they also tend to lose contrast in the out of focus areas… the originals were sprinkled with some secret pixie dust. I appreciate your review, thanks. John
Thanks John! I think so few people have the original most people aren't in a position to compare both. I've not noticed "bad bokeh" in front and the lack of contrast / giving more shadow detail is a big plus for this lens I think (a stand out feature).
You mentioned pastel colours which I found interesting Matt. I don't tend to use colour film in my Leicas but I have used Kodak Ektar in one of them with a post war single coated Summitar and noted the pastel like look to the colours.
Thanks! Yes it would look great with Ektar on film shot at f5.6-f8 I think. In flat light it gives a very pleasing look in colour (or B&W) ..the Summitar is also great!
If you go above f8 do you notice a blue haze in the center of the frame? I reached out to them and this is what they told me: This is a normal phenomenon with original SPII as the internal reflection has caused the lens to have diffraction under low T-Stops. It is advise to not shoot SPII under F8. It was only very recently that we discovered this phenomenon. Either our production and distribution network was not aware of this phenomenon due to the lens usually being shot under f/8. - does this ring true or make sense? seems like an odd answer. Thanks Matt!
HI, interesting, i'll be honest, I usually shoot f2 lenses close to f2 so I didn't do a lot at f8 or above. I'm not smart enough regarding lens optics to say if true or not but I have seen "hot spots" on other lenses in the centre in the past. You can reach out to skyllaney.com and say I sent you. If anyone will know it's probably him.
Great review of a beautiful lens. I like the soft, painterly look. For me the vintage lenses tame digital and on the M8 and M9 CCD's just enhance the sensor. I may soon have the Bertele.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I got the tracking number for mine. Wink, wink. LOL I hope you get yours soon. Even if you are a Sassenach. LOL They are great folks at Skyllaney and have been kind and patient with this doddering old fool. They do not let me out of the home often. I am looking forward to seeing your impressions of the Bertele. Cheers
@@zoltankaparthy9095 thanks, yes mine arrived yesterday but I need to collect it as I was in London for shoots. Soon! (I hope you get your copy very soon too!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I am so glad you got a Bertele. And I hope it stands up to your high standards. You are among the very few great YT camera/lens reviewers. Cheers
Haha you sounds exactly like one of my Pateons :) ...it's not the lens I have in mind but I will look at it. (I've already done testing vs. a Leica lens but cut it out this video as getting too long). I'm going to try a few more lenses before I made video 3.
Thanks a lot for the review. If I want a native M mount lens for digital M camera that has 1) classic/vintage type bokeh; 2) at least fair sharpness and flare resistance when wide open, and 3) min. focus distance not longer than 70cm, which one of these do you recommend? a) Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm f1.5 VM b) LLL Elcan 50mm f2 c) LLL Speed Panchro II 50mm f2 d) or any other lens that are less than US$1000?
Hmm tricky.. not ELCAN is shaper, more contrast, SPII the opposite, Heliar classic perhaps inbetween.. less soft (probably the sharpest at f2* - see that video) ..all vintage lenses at 1m MFT so only look at more modern glass.
Thanks for the reply. Too bad the vintage lenses have MFD of 0.9m or 1m which limits the usability of doing semi close up shots. Perhaps I'll start with the LLL Speed Panchro II first.
Hello! I'm a Leica Minolta CL user who loves your channel. I own the Light Lens Lab M 50mm f2 (Elcan) Black lens. While all my other lenses fit perfectly on my CL, the Elcan doesn't seem to click into place on the my CL mount. I'm not sure if there's an issue with my CL body or if this lens isn't supposed to fit. My Elcan lens fits well on my M240 body. Could you please check if the Elcan lens fits properly on your CL body?
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thank you so much for your response. I'm unsure if the problem lies with my lens or my camera body. I asked if you could personally check both the Elcan lens and CL body you have. If it fits well with your equipment, then it seems that there might be an issue with my body. I'm hoping for more interesting content in the future. Thank you.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I tried fitting the Elcan lens onto a different CL body, but unfortunately, it didn't fit on that body either. It seems that the Elcan lens is not compatible with CL bodies.
Thanks Matt for inciteful video. For film use between the LLL panchro and the LLL elcan replica, would you recommend the elcan? Is it usable at f2 on film? Thanks
One thing to note about the Elcan at f/2: it is not sharp away from the center of the frame at any distance even when focused to that off center point. If you like placing your subject’s head well off center, you’d be better served with any version of the 50 Cron over the Elcan. I shot the SP II prototype and Elcan side by side, and just like the Cron, the SP II was sharper away from center at f/2. I have not tried the production version of the SP II, though.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom How do you keep up with your career, posting and replying? I'm so freaking impressed! You are a photo super hero! Love your work!
This is tempting, I have a cron 50mm and the Voigtlander f1, both produce fairly sterile and 'perfect' shots. I really fancy something vintage that isn't so perfect and gives way more character. Does anyone have any suggestions on what would be a good choice for digital (M11). Street/travel photography that gives the retro/cinematic look; ideally something up to £400, or is this lens worth the extra to just get it in the bag?
If you have the M11 you wont get a lens to match the 60MP res but you can use any old 50mm lens from eBay to get more interesting photos from your sensor. I've reviewed 20+ 50s so see the MrLeica.com blog and see which one you like the look of. Most have videos to go with the written post.
If you want something even "softer, flare prone and limited," take a look at the Taylor-Hobson Xenon 50mm f/1.5-9, a 1930's "speed lens." It was on the family Leica IIIa and produced fuzzy, flare-ridden, unsharp images. I replaced it with a 1950's 50mm f/3.5 Collapsible Elmar, which was a 100% improvement. (I even got the full range of apertures down to f/22!) Ye Olde Elmar produced great Kodachrome slides and large black-and-white prints back in the 1970's. How about a Summar or Summitar 50mm f/2? Even in ShutterBug Ads of the 1970's those were for Collectors. I found a complete Canon P with case, Selenium, clip-on light meter, brown leather case, and 50mm f/1.8 Canon lens. That 50mm f/1.8 Canon lens would put the Summar or Summitar in the shade. Life was interesting, back then, even if Leica M-series cameras were pricey Unobtanium to this then-college student.
Top marks for your answer! We think alike.. I was thinking thr Summar as that is "worse" than my Summarit and Summitar. I forgot the Xenon so I think you nailed it with that answer. I want a "good" alternative not an exact or worse alternative so i'll do some more testing.
I want to love this lens...But, despite your usual talent, I don't see anything extraordinary in this optic. In fact I find the photos even a little less successful. God knows, as a victim of Bokeh Search, I've accumulated a bunch of lenses for this purpose...Here, I don't see anything that lives up to its fantastic reputation. Well, no GAS for the Chinese Speed Panchro ! 👍 (my taste)
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
The iris on the original is round and produces round soft bokeh in front of the plane of focus. The replica produces ninja star bokeh in front of the plane of focus. The lenses were designed for the rendering of form, not sharpness. My initial feeling on the replica is that it doesn’t quite have the feel of form as the original. I’m not one with the patients for tests, but I will get back when I have more experience with the “replica”. The CSPs do well taming high contrast situations with out turning shadow detail to mush, they also tend to lose contrast in the out of focus areas… the originals were sprinkled with some secret pixie dust. I appreciate your review, thanks. John
Thanks John! I think so few people have the original most people aren't in a position to compare both. I've not noticed "bad bokeh" in front and the lack of contrast / giving more shadow detail is a big plus for this lens I think (a stand out feature).
You mentioned pastel colours which I found interesting Matt. I don't tend to use colour film in my Leicas but I have used Kodak Ektar in one of them with a post war single coated Summitar and noted the pastel like look to the colours.
Thanks! Yes it would look great with Ektar on film shot at f5.6-f8 I think. In flat light it gives a very pleasing look in colour (or B&W) ..the Summitar is also great!
I like the LLL SPII 50/2 as much as her 8 Elements 35/2. Both lenses have their own characteristics that appeal to me.
Agreed both have a great look and the Elcan too.
If you go above f8 do you notice a blue haze in the center of the frame? I reached out to them and this is what they told me: This is a normal phenomenon with original SPII as the internal reflection has caused the lens to have diffraction under low T-Stops. It is advise to not shoot SPII under F8. It was only very recently that we discovered this phenomenon. Either our production and distribution network was not aware of this phenomenon due to the lens usually being shot under f/8. - does this ring true or make sense? seems like an odd answer. Thanks Matt!
HI, interesting, i'll be honest, I usually shoot f2 lenses close to f2 so I didn't do a lot at f8 or above. I'm not smart enough regarding lens optics to say if true or not but I have seen "hot spots" on other lenses in the centre in the past. You can reach out to skyllaney.com and say I sent you. If anyone will know it's probably him.
Great review of a beautiful lens. I like the soft, painterly look. For me the vintage lenses tame digital and on the M8 and M9 CCD's just enhance the sensor. I may soon have the Bertele.
Thanks Zoltan and I hope to have the Bertele before you (wink wink).. they have my name.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I got the tracking number for mine. Wink, wink. LOL I hope you get yours soon. Even if you are a Sassenach. LOL They are great folks at Skyllaney and have been kind and patient with this doddering old fool. They do not let me out of the home often. I am looking forward to seeing your impressions of the Bertele. Cheers
@@zoltankaparthy9095 thanks, yes mine arrived yesterday but I need to collect it as I was in London for shoots. Soon! (I hope you get your copy very soon too!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I am so glad you got a Bertele. And I hope it stands up to your high standards. You are among the very few great YT camera/lens reviewers. Cheers
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Just got this lens, so beautiful!
Congrats Steve, yes it is beautifully made for sure
Excellent review Matt,
Pace is great, info great and examples great.
Carry on my friend ;-)
Thanks for sharing
Thanks Rob! It was a little fast (and repeating at times) but trying!
9:36 Please include a focus breathing test on this lens. Thanks Matt!
Thanks Stanley, noted will do.
Got mine recently but not yet had a chance to use it for portrait work. The photo walk about town images thus far are nice paired with the SL !
Thanks George, yes! It's great on the SL, a little big on a M. Enjoy!
Matt, you really do have the best job in the Universe. LOL
Haha thanks Michael! It was never planned but yes I enjoy my more varied life now. (Still lots to work on but getting there!)
Beautiful kit and ladies....it's a tough job but....
I’ll watch this after dinner
Enjoy!
I’ve been on the waiting list for awhile.
Hopefully one will become available soon. Nice video
Thanks, yes great lens for a less modern look
Me thinks you will recommend the Contax RF mount Zeiss-Opton 50mm Sonnar as an alternative.
Haha you sounds exactly like one of my Pateons :) ...it's not the lens I have in mind but I will look at it. (I've already done testing vs. a Leica lens but cut it out this video as getting too long). I'm going to try a few more lenses before I made video 3.
Nice review. Will you have someone fabricate a more Leica-like focus tab for this lens?
Thanks John, I quite like the original twin tab design. Works well as a stand too!
Hey Matt, thanks for making me order one...harrg.
Did you removed the UV-Filter and tried how that might changes flare appearance/patterns? Thank you!
Ha sorry for that! No I leave my UV filter on, it's fine for me.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom ok, thank you
Thanks a lot for the review.
If I want a native M mount lens for digital M camera that has 1) classic/vintage type bokeh; 2) at least fair sharpness and flare resistance when wide open, and 3) min. focus distance not longer than 70cm, which one of these do you recommend?
a) Voigtlander Heliar Classic 50mm f1.5 VM
b) LLL Elcan 50mm f2
c) LLL Speed Panchro II 50mm f2
d) or any other lens that are less than US$1000?
Hmm tricky.. not ELCAN is shaper, more contrast, SPII the opposite, Heliar classic perhaps inbetween.. less soft (probably the sharpest at f2* - see that video) ..all vintage lenses at 1m MFT so only look at more modern glass.
Thanks for the reply.
Too bad the vintage lenses have MFD of 0.9m or 1m which limits the usability of doing semi close up shots.
Perhaps I'll start with the LLL Speed Panchro II first.
Hello! I'm a Leica Minolta CL user who loves your channel. I own the Light Lens Lab M 50mm f2 (Elcan) Black lens. While all my other lenses fit perfectly on my CL, the Elcan doesn't seem to click into place on the my CL mount. I'm not sure if there's an issue with my CL body or if this lens isn't supposed to fit. My Elcan lens fits well on my M240 body. Could you please check if the Elcan lens fits properly on your CL body?
Hi thanks, yes it should fit. The CL cameras don’t like deeper lenses (large rear element etc) but the Elcan should work.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thank you so much for your response. I'm unsure if the problem lies with my lens or my camera body. I asked if you could personally check both the Elcan lens and CL body you have. If it fits well with your equipment, then it seems that there might be an issue with my body. I'm hoping for more interesting content in the future. Thank you.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I tried fitting the Elcan lens onto a different CL body, but unfortunately, it didn't fit on that body either. It seems that the Elcan lens is not compatible with CL bodies.
@@noaidi hmm, I’m not with my CL right now but I’ll check when I can and mention in a future video.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thank you so much! You should check with M mount version. I think LTM version will fit well.
Thanks Matt for inciteful video. For film use between the LLL panchro and the LLL elcan replica, would you recommend the elcan? Is it usable at f2 on film? Thanks
100% Elcan - no at f2.8 for film* (vs f4 for SPII.. but sharper)
Okay, so if you could buy/keep ONLY this or the LLL Elcan replica, you would choose…?
Very easy lol, ELCAN! ..though the SPII is nicer made (aperture throw*)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Based on your sample photos I would decide the same... but of course that's the one LLL has decided to discontinue!
One thing to note about the Elcan at f/2: it is not sharp away from the center of the frame at any distance even when focused to that off center point. If you like placing your subject’s head well off center, you’d be better served with any version of the 50 Cron over the Elcan. I shot the SP II prototype and Elcan side by side, and just like the Cron, the SP II was sharper away from center at f/2. I have not tried the production version of the SP II, though.
Why would you remove the UV filter?
Some UV filters change the flare characteristics, like the LLL 35/2 video I did.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom How do you keep up with your career, posting and replying? I'm so freaking impressed! You are a photo super hero! Love your work!
Looks like just "Soap bubble bokeh", which I love, didn't see any onion ringing in your samples
Thanks, ah yes everyone calls it different things, yes it has the defined edge bokeh look
This is tempting, I have a cron 50mm and the Voigtlander f1, both produce fairly sterile and 'perfect' shots. I really fancy something vintage that isn't so perfect and gives way more character. Does anyone have any suggestions on what would be a good choice for digital (M11). Street/travel photography that gives the retro/cinematic look; ideally something up to £400, or is this lens worth the extra to just get it in the bag?
If you have the M11 you wont get a lens to match the 60MP res but you can use any old 50mm lens from eBay to get more interesting photos from your sensor. I've reviewed 20+ 50s so see the MrLeica.com blog and see which one you like the look of. Most have videos to go with the written post.
oks1-50-1
How do you feel it compares to the old 50mm f1.5 Summarit you reviewed a while back? I have the Summarit as well as the LLL Elcan.
If you want something even "softer, flare prone and limited," take a look at the Taylor-Hobson Xenon 50mm f/1.5-9, a 1930's "speed lens." It was on the family Leica IIIa and produced fuzzy, flare-ridden, unsharp images. I replaced it with a 1950's 50mm f/3.5 Collapsible Elmar, which was a 100% improvement. (I even got the full range of apertures down to f/22!) Ye Olde Elmar produced great Kodachrome slides and large black-and-white prints back in the 1970's. How about a Summar or Summitar 50mm f/2? Even in ShutterBug Ads of the 1970's those were for Collectors. I found a complete Canon P with case, Selenium, clip-on light meter, brown leather case, and 50mm f/1.8 Canon lens. That 50mm f/1.8 Canon lens would put the Summar or Summitar in the shade. Life was interesting, back then, even if Leica M-series cameras were pricey Unobtanium to this then-college student.
Top marks for your answer! We think alike.. I was thinking thr Summar as that is "worse" than my Summarit and Summitar. I forgot the Xenon so I think you nailed it with that answer. I want a "good" alternative not an exact or worse alternative so i'll do some more testing.
Great shout Anthony. See the first video to see both lenses shot side by side. More testing to do before video 3!
What should we pay? 600-700’or more
Pay whatever the list price is on their website. I just order from them
😊
Thanks!
Firstly 🎉
Thanks!
I want to love this lens...But, despite your usual talent, I don't see anything extraordinary in this optic. In fact I find the photos even a little less successful. God knows, as a victim of Bokeh Search, I've accumulated a bunch of lenses for this purpose...Here, I don't see anything that lives up to its fantastic reputation. Well, no GAS for the Chinese Speed Panchro ! 👍
(my taste)
Yes there are better bokeh lenses for sure .. more to come :)