Kpop vocal standards and the problem with settling for the bare minimum
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Hi guys, i'm back! In this video i wanted to discuss the importance of vocals in kpop, how stans seem to be settling for the absolute bare minimum and how one group is becoming the scape goat of this whole messy situation. Let me know your thoughts on this matter...
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Intro song: • IVE - Cherish (99% Cle...
Outro song: • Aya
Timestamps:
0:00 intro
0:50 not caring about vocals is disrespectful to idols and kpop
3:04 hate vs criticism
4:35 what we expect from idols
6:06 lesserafim are not the problem
7:47 final thoughts and outro 
Развлечения
it just blows my mind when idols can’t sing even decently. so many of them train for 3,4,5 sometimes more years. what were they doing all those years???? the normalization of idols not being talented vocally really waters down the genre and the music industry in general. if i wanted to see a bunch of pretty faces dancing on a stage i would just watch dance teams or ballet.
Probably acting classes or something (maybe language classes and such).
Should definitely be more vocal lessons so they can all be on the level of (at least) a sub-vocalist - who dont sing the 'hard' parts but their vocals still add something to the songs of their group.
The way Lesserafim stans praise them in the comment sections of MR removed videos for being "so stable" and come up with the most ridiculous excuse to defend them from completely valid criticism. Out of 5 members, only Yunjin and Chaewon can manage to actually sing, with the other 3 struggling to TALK SING even while just standing. I've seen survival show contestants with better skills not passing the very first audition
Frr 😭
i remember seeing that shit and it was HILARIOUS
Those Mr removed videos actually gives me second hand embarassment 💀😭
plus yunjin didnt transfer her classical singing knowledge to an industry like this
Yunjin is classically trained so no wonder why! I hope the K-POP industry in general will wake up and realize that they’re singers first LOLOL
I always wonder, how come a HYBE was a huge billionaire company yet unable to afford decent vocal lessons? 💀 Also, asking for less lines won't gonna get you anywhere, maybe seeking for vocal lessons outside the company can actually do. I didn't ask to become a powerhouse vocalists, but you still, atleast, able to hold yourself a decent singing note would be great. If this issue still occuring, then i have to question your status as "all-rounder" and most importanly, an "idol".
It’s just that hybe saw that you can be successful even with mediocre vocal skills (look at all of their groups besides seventeen, fromis and those who disbanded) and so they don’t even bother with the vocal lessons
Hybe can afford but they apparently don’t care about vocals for some reason
Bcuz theirs Stan doesn’t care about vocal but only about catchy music, you don't need to have huge vocal to be successful
Having a good DA, Promotion ,Concept and The label play à huge part
@@user-mc4ju4r BTS vocal (SVT too but they aint really from HYBE) and Rap are Great what happened after them.
HYBE mostly GG lack of Vocal but i guess theirs Stan don't seems to care, they seems to care more about theirs concept.
@@bosskpop5710 yeah I know but idols should be stable at singing when they are standing
At least i have to say i appreciate Sakura stans who are honest and admit she can’t sing and that they stan her for other reasons, instead of those stans of hers who are super delusional and genuinely believe she’s a good singer. She’s been in the industry since before some 4th gen idols were even born and she hasn’t improved ONE BIT it’s crazy 💀
The person who made this is an IVE stan and should also admit their favs can’t sing.
@@vixxexo6855 their faves have nothing to do with this lmao
Ive have literally never sounded bad during an encore stage and no one in ive is tone deaf
@@vixxexo6855 ive are weak vocalists, but they can carry a tune. Gauel being their weakest vocalist is still stronger than sakura
@@vixxexo6855bffr ive may not be the best vocal group out there but they can sing nicely and can actually sing live! their 2023 run proved it.
SPEAKING OF CRITICISM, I WATCHED A VIDEO AND SOMEONE SAID THAT DAHYUN DESERVES MORE LINES AND SHE IS MISTREATED AND BLAH BLAH, I REPLIED TO THEM SAYING YES SHE DESERVES MORE LINES BUT SHE CANT HAVE TOO MUCH LINES IN EVERY SONG BECAUSE SHE IS NOT AS GOOD VOCALIST AS OTHERS AND IS A WEAK VOCALIST, AND SHE IS MORE OF A RAPPER AND SOMEONE REPLIED TO ME AND THREW BAD WORDS AT ME SAYING HOW MUCH IM JEALOUS OF DAHYUN AND OF HER TALENTS, I WAS LIKE WHAT⁉⁉SERIOUSLY⁉⁉WHEN WILL THESE FANS REALIZE THAT IDOLS ARE ALSO HUMANS LIKE US AND THEY ARE NOT GOOD IN EVERYTHING AND THEY ARE BAD IN SOME THINGS, BUT ONCE YOU SAY SOMETHING YOU GET MASSIVE HATE FROM THOSE TOXIC OBSESSED FANS
AS A PERSON WHO LOVES VOCALS AND WHOS ULT GROUPS ARE GREAT VOCALISTS, PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT VOCALS PISS ME OFF, LIKE VOCAL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND IDOLS OR TRAINEES WONT BE ACCEPTED IF THEY HAVE BAD VOCALS, EVEN IF THEY ARE SUPER TALENTED STILL VOCAL IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHER TALENTS SUCH AS DANCE RAP ETC
Exactly 😭 I got into k-pop through solar and chen singing their heart out and vocalists always mesmerized me and stand saying they don't care if an idol can't even sing in encore is ridiculous 💀💀
@@johnsthetic FR, SAME TO YOU I GOT INTO KPOP WITH SHINEE WHO HAS AMAZING VOCALS
@@zindoriyam.9 yes 😭❤️ my early k-pop days I got into shinee 😂❤️ Jong and onew always served 😎
@@johnsthetic YESSS
@@johnstheticthe fact that Chen and baekhyun only trained for months before debuting
Compared to previous gens where you'd find more good vocals. I feel like in the 4th gen, there are good vocalists, but it's mostly on an individual basis. Meaning that there are less groups with good vocals, and more just *1-2* idols from groups that sound good and not the whole group as a whole. I've checked a lot of groups out with their lives to know that.
oh absolutely, there are some exceptions like nmixx, purple kiss and a couple of others where quite a few members are pretty strong vocalists, but it's clear the focus has shifted on other things, especially dancing (which isn't a problem but it shouldn't be an excuse for having underwhelming vocals either)
@@soft4taeng Yeah. Being a person who quite literally knows about almost every group (boy girl coed) from all budgets, I've seen in the 4th gen that there are good vocalists, but more so on a solo basis. Also Arirang radio live versions are good for when I wanna see a nugu or unpopular groups (good budgeted or super small nugus) live raw vocals to know if they can sing or no. It's good to help me critique, since very rarely do nugus sing live.
Aespa, Nmixx, Purple Kiss, Loona and StayC are stable live.
True, but there's a lot more groups than just them, So I know that lot of kpop groups aren't good at singing.@@vixxexo6855
@@vixxexo6855 true, but they're not the only groups to debut tbh. There's actually a lot of groups you don't know about!
I see kpop idols get praised for bad vocals al the time. Its really frustrating, because people don't even know what good vocals sound like. Most idols are not even mediocre vocalist they are just bad. Even some main vocalist are just oke.
YOU FINALLY POSTED, I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS SO MUCH
YOURE THE BEST COMMENTARY KTUBER IN MY OPINION
OMG thank you so much! I'm glad to be back 💕
Isn't this sort of part of the problem tho? Us tolerating and defending "decent" singers when they're only decent when they're drowned in auto tune. Decent singers are fine when they have a good tone in the 4th gen, like New Jeans, Enhyphen, even IVE, but like... if you sound like a robot in studio and can't sing live... barely stable... then idk. I feel like with Leserrafim, 2 are good, and the rest need auto tune, and it can be disappointing, but the 2 vocalists do what they need to. With 5th gen introducing groups like Baby Monster and Kiss of Life, with well rounded groups of great vocalists, I think the future is looking up and I'm already very close to stanning these groups since vocals are my thing, personally.
Kiss of life is literally some saviour I say they are really a game Changer and just so cool 🤌🏻😌
@@johnstheticcan i add babymonster here? Im not a fan but i have seen clips of them singing and they're really good especially at their age. I have hope that we'll see a resurgence of good vocals in 5th gen
…most idols get like 2 lines in a song and can’t even get that down. If they had to sing an entire song solo my expectations would be different. I don’t think it’s wrong to question whether an idol deserves to be an idol at all when what’s the difference between certain idols and a background dancer if they can’t sing? Idols ARE talented, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t talented SINGERS. I am glad that this video is pointing out that we shouldn’t insult idols themselves, especially when this situation is getting out of control.🙄🙄 🙄
Finally a nuanced discussion, not everything is either black or white. We can admit that sakura is a weak vocalist without having to pretend like the whole group is bad, i mean they literally have chaewon and yunjin.
I agree that le sserafim are not the problem and some people are just jumping on this hate train because they feel like it.
Problem is, Chaewon and Yunjin are good, but Sakura, Kazuha and Eunchae are bad bad
Yeah that’s true, but some people are just acting as if the entire group was weak, which is false.
But still i have to say that people tried to justify their bad vocals for far too long and they have always praised them despite being mediocre. I’m glad people realized they’re actually nothing special
I know this is not at all related to the video and I haven’t watched it yet but you don’t have community posts so I wanna say it here. Thank you so much for being a safe space for DIVES. J was at the lowest of the lows due to the IVE hate and I felt insane cause it felt like I was alone in war. It probably isn’t that serious but seeing you proudly affiliate yourself with IVE helped me so much and your content is amazing. Idrk what the point of this was I forgot but thank you !! I’ll watch the video now lol
i totally understand how you feel, sometimes it can be hard as a dive, especially because there weren't many of us here on youtube but i'm glad i was able to help others in the fandom even just a little bit, thank you so much!!
@@soft4taeng ahh! I’m surprised you responded lmao but we dives gotta stick together and to talk on your video, I definitely feel like people are dismissing the importance of vocals to support Le Sserafim and many other groups and I wish we could just take a deep breath and realize music is (I hope) the main reason we’re here. There’s group dynamics and choreos and all, but music unites us all
@@vixxexo6855 I was not insulting anyone in Le Sserafim, I find it unfortunate that people are bashing extremely harshly on them, I was just talking about how I hate some justifications people use to support them. I never wanted to insult Le Sserafim, but you are clearly going lower than I ever did. There is no need to insult someone to validate your point and I’m disappointed that you (supposedly) call yourself a Fearnot
It's not a new thing that your videos are awesome but you have the best introns in the k-tuber community
i appreciate it, thank you ☺
@@soft4taeng i love that one intro especially with eleven instrumental 😭😭🩷
Its annoying AS HELL seeing so many stans justifying Sakura, it’s okay to just admit she’s tone deaf! Now if i have to be honest i also don’t think she is THAT great of a performer to make up for her horrible singing. Yes she’s a decent dancer and has decent stage presence but is it really enough to compensate the fact she sounds so bad and so nasal all the time?
great to see you back! looking forward to more videos. It is a terrible shame that the minimum for vocal ability is so low now. No one is expecting every idol to be the next taeyeon or wendy, but the ability to sing on pitch is not asking for too much. the problem is the ppl who say you cant expect idols to sing and dance at the same time, that is so BS. idols have always been expected to sing and dance at the same time. for the ppl who just want a great performance, then why dont you just watch dance crews?
YOU'RE BACK! OMG FINALLY THE QUEEN IS BACK 👑👑
THANK YOU
Your back!!!🎉🎉
the fact that some of these idols are struggling to hold a tune... omfg
Welcome back Bestie ❤
thank youuu🥰
@@soft4taeng where were you at we missed you😭
@@ITSLEMOON i was just pretty busy with studying and i missed you guys too, i'm happy to be back!!
I wanted this video so as always fearnots are the epitome of double standards 💀and even some channel I thought would talk sensibly was saying its not a big problem that Sakura can't sing in an encore stage her dance is good and they don't mind it when in reality same people say how k-pop live singing is disappearing 🥴self contradicting at it's finest
Thanks for coming back like I was re-watching some of your old videos yesterday and day before. Thanks ror talking about this. You are a comfort for dives in this platform
When it comes to those people saying they don’t care about idols sounding awful as long as they can dance, i always wonder, then what makes them different from a back up dancer? It’s okay if an idol isn’t the greatest, after all there are positions like main and lead vocalists in charge of the difficult parts, but how can people’s standards be so low that they will settle for idols that can’t even hold a note 💀
@@soft4taeng 😭 exactly I have seen idols working crazy af in their craft over years even though they were good at what they are doing it be better year by year and these people are making those idols look like clowns for working hard. I once saw a video where a I guy was saying everything in k-pop is fake the voice is fake is face is fake and the amount of k-pop Stans agreeing it had me baffled; they are admitting that idols who worked so hard to be what they are are not talented. Plus when the mainstream media is filled with people like this that will reduce the expectations of people for a k-pop idol I think that's very disrespectful 🥲 I have seen fair share of very very talented idols and I hope this stuff just goes down and people appreciate the ones with talent and give positive criticism to idols because I have seen how much a idol can improve. It's not impossible in every case
@@soft4taengdancing is also talent. No one will dare to say Momo from Twice is talentless. Momo is like one of the best dancers in kpop, but she is weak vocally,
@@vixxexo6855 of course dancing is also talent and obviously nobody would say momo is talentless since she is literally a main dancer, but if you are a member that doesn't have any main or lead position in the group and you are very weak in all of your skills, i think we have the right to expect more from you as an idol
The fucking nerve of them to now claim that Kpop isn't actually about vocals after what they did to aespa and IVE
I think you brought up great point about idols in the industry who go through hell and back to be taken seriously. For the people who say that vocals don't matter, they don't realize that without vocals, idols would become dolls and nothing more (or the ones above average in dancing could become backup dancers). They would never be considered actual artists by the rest of the world. A singer who can't sing... Who would ever bat an eye to that? Moreover, normalizing this type of thinking within the kpop community would throw all the hard work done by big kpop groups today (who actually possess immense amounts of talent and skills to properly harvest that talent) down the drain. I don't get what hybe is trying to do honestly but whatever this is, I don't like it. Almost all of their new groups have little to no vocal skills. Even yg is doing better than them in terms of vocals and that's something. As someone who stans a lot of hybe groups, it makes me greatly disappointed.
I think the overuse of autotune within kpop is another reason why nwjns blew up. People, including myself are sick and tired of hearing idols vocals swimming in autoune.
i mean she was good in her japanese days especially when she sang yume da kiss me well obvi she was young but the older she got her voice declines with the notes she wants to hit but it’s not just sakura but hybe as well who’s not putting the effort to make her vocals better. well those are my thoughts and honestly i thought they found her range with pfn and swan song and hopefully they make more songs where she can shine like she did with pfn and swan song
This is the reality for 3-4th gen. Fan would say idols don't need to be good at singing.
They are not singers.. Just performers. 😅
Hence why I left kpop several years ago. I hope you do too. 😂
But to be a performer, you need to dance AND SING well, which many 4th gen groups fail to realize. I mean take KIOF & Baemon for example. Even if they stop dancing, they exude so much stage presence and vocal skills. I believe these two groups are reviving what kpop should be in the first place
I miss you so much, I always watched your videos when I got bored and I like this video a lot. ❤
Thank you so much! 💜
@@soft4taeng Yw 🙏🏾🤗
Sorry but even in encore yunjin sounded bad. What happened to them? Only chaewon sounds decent and can dance. The others are like mid backup dancers
maybe if sakura spent less time crocheting and practised with a vocal teacher more, then we wouldn't have a problem now lol
That's just rude of you. Yes sakura isn't the best singer but you saying that she should stop relieving stress through methods such as crocheting and just stay in the building all day is not fair
Le sserafim are talented a good performers + dancers
But as a fearnot, they do need decent vocal lessons
Ig only chaewon and yunjin are decent in the group also eunchae is a lot stable compare to sakura and kazuha
I mean yeah kazuha and sakura are rappers, not the vocalist
But still a non vocalist can sing decently
I also know its hard to sing while dacing as im a dancer too also trained as a singer
If they cant sing decently then train them more before debuting. Debut them only after they can atleast sing decently
And the thing is, if you ever express these kind of opinions, most kpop fans would go on to say: "You're just hating". Like kpop fans are actually so delusional and suck ups for their biases..
About le sserafim’s vocals i would disagree I found Yunjin’s tone unpleasant. Idk if it’s because of the technique or the range she is forced to sing. Chaeowon is fine. I am not a fearnot but I liked their debut era and antifragile. And was not a fan of this era either so i will wait for the next comeback.
i really don’t know how to put my thoughts into words so this is gonna sound really messy but i find it odd that when a group is clearly not the best equally people say things like “other idols have worked so hard for their skills and vocal talent to be taken seriously” like why another idols’ lack of vocal capabilities must dictate how the entire genre is viewed? like the real problem is how people judge the entire genre by a few bad singers and like those are always gonna exist, there are bad vocalists in the west but no one talk about how the entire genre isn’t taken seriously because britney spears lipsyncs or whatever. people just always have such harsh opinions when it comes to kpop and it’s always taken holistically rather than judging each group on its own. this really isn’t a dig at you you’re one of my fave channels i’ve heard that same point discussed in other videos on the same topic.
Obviously you're right when you say that the real problem is people judging the genre only by the bad singers, but the fact that a lot of stans seem to not have any standard when it comes to vocals is also a problem. What i meant in the video is that if kpop stans have no problem in admitting that they don't care about idols being good singers, then no one is gonna take kpop seriously if kpop fans themselves are satisfied with idols just being pretty and funny.
@@soft4taeng you do make that point in your video and i honestly commented that before i finished it entirely and i agree with you completely i just wanted to put that thought out there because i’ve heard it repeated in a lot of the videos talking about this so i decided to keep my comment
You kpop Stan’s REALLY do love to pick and choose my goodness! When itzy for instance were getting hate for their vocals especially Lia, everyone was on mute! Not a single soul thought it was a problem (infact the hate intensified when they eventually released sneakers) everyone and their moms swore it was a bad song and they COULDN’T sing for shit. Now it’s lesserafim, everyone is speaking up? Blaming the company and not the girls? Swearing on your lives that people are being unnecessarily mean when this same act towards itzy was very much applauded? I just can’t😂
Yeah it’s kinda crazy, especially if you consider the fact that itzy never sounded that bad and Lia, despite not being the strongest main vocalist out there, actually has such a pleasing vocal tone and she’s definitely good. It’s just that some group always end up being overall more loved by the kpop community that always defends them, no matter what they do, while there are others that always catch strays, just like itzy, aespa, ive…
@@soft4taengthe aespa hate train in 2021-2022 was insane but they've since proved that they can sing live AND have stage presence so idk if they get as much hate anymore. I hope not at least
You know it's not hard to improve on vocals. Because I did vocal exercises for a few months and I did improve.
What vocal exercise did you do? I want to try since i'm jealous of my 2 bsf who can sing and i'm the only who can't sing in the trio 😭
@@eliquos Jacobs Vocal Academy. You have to be consistent in practice at least 4 times a week and I suggest breathing exercises first.
@@KarinaAespa-td5ch is it paid or not?
OMG
A lot more idols nowdays, I'd say don't deserve to be idols than I would've said for previous gens. I will not be listing any as I don't want to publicly single out any idols nor groups for this, but the root cause of the issue is the fans.
Nowdays, people just want influencer-models who can dance descently enough and music thats is at the very least listenable. Zero standards for actual musical artistry and nor quality, and no standards for vocal ability. The companies know this and are putting little to no effort into training idols vocally as there is no greater demand for it. If they had a reason to, oh so many idols would be the next Ariana Grande, but that's not what will affect their income, currently. There is no need for actual singers.
I will say tho, it IS fair to lower our standarss for individual skills when it comes to idols. There r more things they _need_ to invest in than Western Artists and dancers in general. However, ignoring gen1, with this lowered standard, only gen3 and arguably gen2 (I don't personally think the dancing overal was as good as gen3) were able to hold up with these lowered standards. I don't believe that gen5 has actually started, however, what has come after gen3 does not hold up. Imo, if u can't hold a note live, or u can't rap, and don't play a bigger role in music creation, u don't deserve to be specifically a music artists.
(Also anyone tryna jump at NewJeans better stay quiet cuz they all hold up live, vically, even with theit choreo and all sing descently enough to not be lumped in with the rest of their gen4)
like theres no shame in liking idols who dont have amazing vocals but love. its an important part of music. as long as they can carry a tune as a group, they could use more training but it isnt needed.(an example of this is skz!! i love them, they have some standout vocalists like jeongin, seungmin, and minho. they also have members that have potential that needs to be honed, and objectively average vocalists[ie: average ones can carry a tune but cant handle more challenging parts like keeping a good chest voice or having a wide range spanning many registers without losing vocal color] the ones with less talent or skill could definitely benefit from more vocal training, but is not needed as that is also not a main part of their position in the group, considering the amount of members.)also baekhyun jonghyun and chen did not eat like that with their vocals just for yall to say that singing aint important at all here.
1st and 2nd Gen Kpop was all about vocals, especially SM idols. I miss those days, Korean ballads with killer vocals was part of what Korea was known for. Now it's more about dance which is fine but did we have to sacrifice vocals?
1st gen had weak vocals too, like J.Y Park himself is 1st gen idol😄😄😆
JYP is not a great example, part of his fame was because of his flamboyant but strange stage presence, he got rejected by many agencies lmao@@vixxexo6855
The training stories are all made up and are their to gain sympathy, i am convinced about that, because i have seen people with no prior singing experience sing better than these so called trained "singers"
put the best vocalist in kpop next to most/any western vocalist and they'll embarrass themselves..
I think thats a bit of a stretch considering idols like ailee, taeyeon, wendy etc are genuinely amazing singers but yeah i get what you mean
@@purpleeyebrows19 they're technically all good! just lack raw talent, in my opinion. compare them to beyonce or ariana for instance
there are lots of music artist who arent the best at singing or rapping at the end of the day its art and saying that you only have to be execptional at everything is stupid
I dont think that thinking idols should to be hold a tune is necessarily asking them to be 'exceptional at everything'
Their music are the best than Twice, Ive, Itzy & more those groups sounded like chipmunks & kids.Facts! Why they're trying to make their voice tiny & high pitch💀💀! It's like tearing a thin metal. Painful in the ears. That's why people love Le Sserafim songs & those other groups are flopping because their voice sound like kids & chipmunks, inducing tinitus so people are disregarding them😂😂. Very facts!👏👏. Just accept that Le Sserafim are always hot trend & their music are viral in any socmed👏👏. Keep stressing haters no one cares about your malicious intentions to Le Sserafim, u'll just look like idhiots while Le Sserafim are making money & gaining lots of fans👏👏. What a queens👑👑💅💅🏆🏆
You guys have to stop taking everything as hate and acknowledge that constructive criticism can help idols improve. Lesserafim are successful and they are surely not as untalented as some people make them out to be, but you have to be objective and accept the fact that they delivered some poor encore stages...stop blindly defending your faves and admit that they need some improvement