I came out of the movement last March. It was and is a process to say the least. Thank you for lifting ip your voice. It is people like you who have given me clarity and validation. Sad to think I was decieved by these fasle teachers/prophets for 7 years. Praise be to God for exposing these wolves and shining the light of truth.
Hi Jesse, happened upon this video. I grew up with Shawn, know his family, and launched his first personal ministry forever ago. What has caused him much trouble in the past is following the bad advice from his “spiritual mom” who was always at odds with church/ministry leadership wherever she was for basic insubordination and skipping the part of life called learning responsibility and integrity. It’s heartbreaking to see the long trail of destruction including me and my family but those that were his protecting peers like Joyner or Bickle are also falling down. Only time until he was brought out into the open. 💔
Greetings in the name of Jesus, my brother Jesse it’s good to see you again. May the Lord be with you and your family always keep you in health and sound say amen.
I came out of NAR after 30 years when pandemic hit. I feel so free now that I know the truth of the Bible completely. The false prophets and teachers take everything out of context. I only read verses in context now. God bless you brother. Keep speaking out.
I’m one of those people who got married based on a prophecy and it was a nightmare. I have since left the prophetic movement. I’m 100% behind speaking out about this stuff. Thank you!
That’s too bad… i have never had a prophecy go wrong over me… if you don’t have in something, though, don’t ever expect it to be anything but sin to you… what was said may not have been fake, you may simply never have received it…
I can never imagine doing something as getting married because someone prophesied that I should marry this person. I would say this to you there are three lights of direction that we get from the Lord. One can be from friends or prophecies and so forth in our church. The second is confirmation in your own spirit. Will you have taken time to seek the Lord to give you confirmation. And third you should find a confirmation in the word of God. I remember in the late 70s and early 80s the Shepparton doctrine that had people in control over other people. People could not make any decisions unless they first went to their Shepherd.Totally not found in scripture
While I am not glad that lives have been wrecked, I am VERY THANKFUL that the truth is coming out!!!!! I have been praying for this very thing for years!!!! I will keep on, keeping on.
I’ve come out of this movement as well. We have to continue to speak truth and speak up. It’s what Paul did as well. You’re in the right and you’re appreciated. Keep on, brother. The truth speaks a better word.
God bless you and yours Jesse, thank you for sharing. The fallout of this “prophetic” deception has tentacles everywhere, not just Bolz and company. 40 years in charismainia, and stories that date back to the early 80’s. The worst part is, the people that may never experience heaven because of these “prophetic” leaders. God have mercy 🙏🏻✝️
Jesse, they are all fake and liars. Shawn is just the most obvious. Kris and others are no different than Shawn. They are just better at lying. Don't you agree? Also, Bethel should make a statement of rebuke but that means they need to rebuke themselves and repent themselves. That's why they won't make a statement
💯 There are people in the Body of,Christ with true and verified prophetic gifting! Seen this demonstrated for over fifty years! These fakes are are just grifting and out to make easy money and get fame!
Yeah Kris is just worried that Shawn will make him and Bethel look bad. It has nothing to do with the falseness of the "prophecies". They're just mad at Shawn for exposing them all further.
I hope you managed to get some sleep. I'm thankful for your soft heart. You really care for the body of Christ and the sheep. Make sure you take care of yourself as this is heartbreaking stuff...
It’s deception and men covering it because they’re afraid of their kingdoms crumbling. God doesn’t need anyone to protect the prophetic movement. The true prophetic will stand against any scrutiny.
Does the pain get better? Im trying so hard to deconstruct coming out of this movement. Its been 7months since we left our church. Ive figured out the deceptions i was under but it still feels like ive lost my entire family and cant move on. They were heavily bethel influenced. Our pastors studied there a time. They are planting bethel sydney now 😢 i have destroyed my health through a psychosomatic healing of 18months from chronic illness. They "spoke over me". Its just so messed up Jesse. You know this. I guess I just want to know from someone whos been through it, does it get better? It feels so painful. I have small kids and trying so hard to keep my mental state together. Let me know any words of wisdom, or just comforting to know theres a community out there that understands. Thanks for all you do.
The American Church is heavily influenced by Pentecostalism in general, so it will be very difficult to find a church that doesn’t incorporate some type of Pentecostal influence (songs, books, people in the congregation being influenced, etc…). The cessationist Reformed camp (Jmac, etc…) have a myriad of their own serious problems related to control and abuse. This has been very painful for me to navigate and continues to be. However, it’s possible to begin a healing journey - you’ll never arrive at a destination but you will see progress - more than maybe you think possible. I would highly recommend finding a counselor who is specialized in religious trauma (Diane Langberg and Laura Anderson have practices) and then read good books to understand what happened to you (Combatting Cult Influence, John Collins’ William Branham podcast). You will not find a “safe” church, ie, a church where everyone understands you perfectly and will not harm you in some way. You CAN find a safe-enough church. You CAN find a relationship with God that is safe and that will be a sanctuary to rest in - but it will take time and be difficult to wade through all the confusing crap you were taught about God. Find a support group if you can.
One thing that I find odd is the confrontations asking Bolz to repent. This isn’t just about him being caught in fleshly sin. His behavior is one of a person who has zero belief in or fear of the God of the Bible. He’s not a believer. I know it’s hard for people caught up in these movements to accept that people like him can be so evil/deceptive, but it’s true. That’s why it’s especially egregious that the people who promoted him are staying silent. He’s a spiritual and financial predator and an enemy of the Gospel. “The scale to which people have uprooted their lives…” That’s the key to understanding how sociopathic men and women like this are. Seared consciences and mockers of the Holy Spirit.
This movement also ruined my faith. Currently deconstructing and going through the painful process of repentance and rebuilding my faith in Christ. Now free from all this nonsense and learning the Word of God in context. Planning to craft a communication to my close friends who are still in Redding at Bethel and warn them and share my testimony of how God led me out. Bethel is a cult. My time there produced catastrophic consequences to my life and finances. And there are countless others just like me who have suffered at the hand of the False Church. SO SO thankful God opened my eyes! Thanks Jesse.
Oh Jesse I hear the hurt and distress in your voice. I know these were important people in your life, and to see them failing the Church has to be SO hard for you. I appreciate your transparency and vulnerability. I’m praying for you, Brother❤🙏🏻
Shawn gave me a word on fb live in 2021. About buying a house. That God had a house for me and it was part of my destiny and that I would be getting the house soon. That it wasn't far off. Well it's 2025 and I still have no house. But regardless of what Shawn said I know that God has a house for my kids and I and knowing that he was wrong releases me from feeling like I did something wrong. Because I felt like I had since I dont have a house yet.
God tends to drop false prophets like flies. He is eradicating the church of evildoers. Praise God! Still very heart breaking and I pray that the victims of these wolves would have a deep restorative healing by the power of the Holy Spirit. The fact that Kris wanted to save his own skin ultimately is also disturbing. I say this because he himself wrote the prophetic handbook. If anything it would have made it better by outting the false prophets publicly, but hiding it does even more damage to the movement. It seems he acted out of fear instead of wisdom. I attended BSSD from 2018-2022. This hurts to see but it doesn’t surprise me either. As a co leader of Bethel Church and head of the School of Ministry, he is held responsible for this. God went straight to Adam and asked what happened. The covering is responsible. I hope and pray for repentance from multiple parties and healing and restoration for the victims. Brother, I would love to take you up on your final comments and talk with you. I have also been deeply damaged by the movement and the teachings and am still healing. Thankfully my faith has been in tact, but hanging on by a thread to start. I would love to connect with you. God bless 🙏🏻
Thank u for sharing and thank u for reminding us that this is a sad thing, not to be celebrated, but to be thankful to the Lord for bringing it to light.
AGREE! Lord move Your True ppl to DO RIGHT! I have walked with the Lord since April 1,1979. Have been a part of many denominations… grew up Episcopal(mother), Methodist(dad)..have been a part of PCA, Southern Bapt. Now have been in nondenom(s)for about 34 yrs. I am so sorry to hear how far you traveled from your faith but PRAISE God you are back! The hard thing for those of us who were raised with knowledge but no ‘power’ is that Acts seemed like a ‘fairy tale’. Not many treat it as the amazing event that it was. So, for me, seeing a faith that BELIEVES that miracles still happen and have an expectancy is life giving… but in these last days, these crazy times; knowing who to line up with, lean in to, is getting harder.. what we do know, is PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, do not put our trust in them!
After the charismatic renewal (which started off well) went sideways, the Pentecostal movement began warning their members to not mingle with them. This is exactly why. Ripping verses from context, making scripture subjective to experience, creating weird doctrines that made the apostles of the Lamb look faithless...the charismatic movement infected the Pentecostals and we've been purging that influence to go back to our roots - prayer, fasting and the Word. Cessationism isn't the answer. Being biblical is.
I think that is so common, unfortunately, that the ones who speak out against crimes against God are vilified, while the law breakers are defended by those still either deceived or as guilty. It's obvious to those of us who who know, that fame and clicks are not the motivation. Thank you for standing up for the deceived. God bless you and your family🙏💗
Sadly, this is a common thread in the hyper-charismatic world. One thing I have noticed is these "prophets" and "apostles" preach transparency, accountability and walking in the light. But if it has the potential to damage the image or reputation of their ministry or church its covered up or brushed off as quickly as they can. Don't preach about building the kingdom and then do everything you can to protect your own little kingdom you have built. Infuriating!
Hi Phil, I'm so sorry for your experience, the pain, and the betrayal. May I ask for forgiveness on behalf of the minister and ministry? Father, with Your permission, I ask if I might stand in the gap? I'm not sure I was sent as Jonah was, but I feel the pain and trust that my petition will form part of the healing and restoration. Please forgive us Phil and Father God for causing pain and suffering, for misleading and being unwise. Forgive us for being irresponsible and unsubmitted, stiff necked and arrogant. I ask for Your balm of Gilead to be administered for healing and restoration. Where there is suffering Father we ask for healing. Not just for Phil, but others who read this, and who might have been hurt. I also ask for mature, seasoned, humble, hungry, teachable and wise counsel to come around those who have similar experiences that the joy of Worshipping you in community may be restored. In Jesus name I ask. I have ministered in this and am keenly aware of how this can be mis-used and thank you brother for sharing and calling us to account.
If Bethel and places like them don’t want to be considered cults, they need to stop acting like cults. Because quietly shunting aside bad actors like Shawn and preserving appearance and reputation above all is cult behavior.
Why would Bethel do something about it? They will still have followers, they are making loads of money. This is what I think they care about the most. That and status as God's annointed people. Bill Johsnon has had Kenneth Copeland come to Bethel and called him, I believe the words were very similar to: "one of the most Godly men I know" or something to that effect. Benny Hinn is a speaker at the Bethel Cleveland Holy Spirit conference this March. It's a wolf pack.
Around the 14:00 mark, the same can be said when Mike Winger said the same "I should’ve been harder." Regarding to Bill Johnson and the Bethel movement before he critiqued "The Physics of Heaven." Learn to be gracious on yourself because we are finite. We are not all-knowing nor ever-present. If we were, we wouldn’t be here in making videos correcting ourselves, just like Mike Winger. (Mike - if you are watching this, just know that we [capital C Church] loves you, but being overtly gracious can be as detrimental as one who cares not at all). That is my two-cents, that is why we are here. So take my advice with consideration.
This makes me very sad. I knew Cherie (pre-marriage) when I worked for a church in Las Vegas. She’s a genuinely kind and loving person. I hope she’s ok. I’m grieved for everyone who’s been affected by this.
It has been frustrating for many that have been calling out these false prophets and teachers for years, and yet just now all of a sudden they want to talk about. People like myself were and continue to be called names because we desire the true move of the Holy Spirit and point to the Scripture. I'm not a cessationist and I believe God can heal and do whatever He wants, but it must be done as shown in Scripture. The Word says that it has everything we need for this life- we do not need to have all these fake prophets and teachers. Because we as Christians have put more impact on Spiritual Works rather than in an already prophecy in the Word, people are being deceived. Vallaton is a horrible example of today's leaders in the church- but he's not the only one.
it is frustrating. And just to be clear. Majority of Cessationist would agree with you that we pray for healing and that God still heals. The healing that happen just aren't the fruit of the "gift of healing". Even Justin Peters would agree with that statement.
@@faith_reframedYou might be interested to know there are actually true prophets and apostles out there with the same integrity and correct focus as the apostle Paul for instance. I know if first hand. Sad to see all the false stuff out there that caused people to even turn against clear scriptural teaching (or make it say what fits their experience.) If your curious, a true prophetic and apostolic movement is all about knowing Christ and growing into maturity. Much love, man!
I am from the UK but left a long time ago. I think God left our churches some time before the late 80's. In the early 80's there was a tiny glimpse of what it could be. Long story .. but anyone who is hungering and thirsting for righteousness will be filled with Wisdom to know why these things happened and what is probably going to happen in the future.
Bethel and its leaders, including Kris, often avoid publicly acknowledging their errors, particularly in the realm of prophecy. Kris has built a career on the premise that it’s acceptable for prophets to make mistakes. However, a closer look at the Old Testament reveals the serious consequences of false prophecy. Many of these individuals claim to hold prophetic offices, but I hope that, by God’s grace, they come to repentance. The gravity of misusing God’s sacred Word is not to be taken lightly. Having been closely connected to Bethel for 15 years before stepping away, I recognize the importance of repentance-not just for those leaders, but for all of us who have played a role in idolizing and elevating them. It is crucial that we reflect, repent, and return to a reverent understanding of God’s Word.
Thanks for the video Jesse. I remember the advent of the NAR, founded by the late Peter Wagner and being alarmed by their doctrinal statements. I believe God is cleaning house in the movement. Quite honestly, Bethel is a haven for “every wind of doctrine.”
What blows my mind is how anybody in this age of technology didn't think of this Bolz guy using a social media platform to mine information on attendees. It's the first thought that I had when I saw his shtick.
What made if believable is that there are lots of prophetic true words, too, and I have seen God get specific from very true, character filled prophets. I have experienced something similar to that myself. I do hear what you’re saying, though!
I work for a woman who came to my country as a missionary sent by Bethel. She graduated from the school around the same time as you. You might even know her. I recognize Shawn Bolz name from books she reads. And my eyes were opened to all this prophetic craziness because of her. She teaches people how to prophesy and the prophetic is her business. She teaches you how to prophesy at a price and teaches you how to "process" your prophetic words so they come to pass. They have a high view of self and a surprisingly low veiw of Christ. And it's terrifying how their reach is creeping deeper into the culture of Christianity in my country.
"She came to my country as a *missionary* sent by Bethel." A missionary sent not to share the true Gospel, but to spread the Bethel "gospel," which includes how to falsely prophesy. If that doesn't make everyone's eyes open that this is "another gospel" that Paul warns about in Galatians, then nothing will. You're 100% right that it's about having a high view of self and a low view of Christ. I blindly was into this for 15 years+ until the Holy Spirit mercifully opened my eyes. It's a cult.
@@john4226 The country is Nigeria. The name, she isn't really known. I'd be happy to share privately but I doubt many people would recognize her because she's still "upcoming". She has a school and church in Cameroon and the one in Kenya failed but she's trying to get it running again. She's preparing an online school of supernatural ministry tailored towards Africa and trust me, the curriculum is full of dangerous Bethel theology. Going through it was what opened my eyes about it at first.
Thank you posting this. For change to happen we (as a body) need to say enough is enough and no longer support religious organisations who do not take care of people but their profit.
We went to 1st year in August 2019. She's German, so she was here on a student visa. So this was the year when Olive had passed away. Interestingly, my wife was getting so many prophetic words at the time about the mission trips, and yet they were ALL cancelled at the beginning of the year due to covid. No prophecies about that... At a school of prophets. We got engaged and ended up moving to Germany to get married the following year instead of going to 2nd year. And it was really during that time that God had reshaped our theology. We're in San Diego now, going to a reformed church. Thank God!! Thanks for your ministry and all you do!
@@mitchellryanguerra That's sad. I grew up I'm the Reformed Church. It was dead, lifeless, and no one told me who Jesus was. They don't even teach the true gospel in that denomination.
@Mint-kj9kw You are making extreme generalizations. I have two questions for you: What is your definition of dead and lifeless? And what is the true gospel to which you are referring?
This is heartbreaking to hear, I was part of E58 from 2008 to 2010. I personally met with Shawn and he had a word of knowledge about me that was accurate and he had no way of knowing because we never talked about it before. I wonder if he felt pressure to perform like many ministers do and decided to fake the gift 🤷♂️ “Let everything that is hidden be revealed”
He's also blatantly ripping off older videos from other ministries. Heres an example where he copies a video from 6 years ago almost word for word from reading his notes, not even trying to hide it. Original Channel: Troy Brewer Video: "222 - Uncovering Signs, Miracles and Wonders" Starting at 32 seconds into the video. Blatant ripoff Shawn Bolz video 3 months ago: "Prophetic Word: 222-God is Giving You a Key! What's About to Happen" Starts 11 minutes into the video.
Thank you Kris, I appreciate you speaking out about this. I left a church a while back that was in the charismatic evangelical movement. I came from a broken place and didn’t have good critical thinking skills. I was conditioned to think in extremes and just expect God to deliver the desires of my heart. I reflect back on my life and grieve wasting many years of my life. I feel sad for people who are vulnerable and still being led by prophetic leaders. It’s very difficult to reason with them and they just see me as a backslidden or lukewarm Christian. I have been wrestling and deconstructed some of my theology but don’t have enough Faith to be an Atheist. I am just trying to rebuild and work on my mental health.
I appreciate you, Brother. That was so helpful to share that it's possible to come out of this mess without losing your faith - it's the best & (I argue, only) way to fully be extracted and find true healing. I pray for you & your family and may more sleep come when possible. May He strengthen you in deepest way.
It is no small thing for these types of accusations. (With regards to any person). In a court, people aren’t able to give testimony anonymously (they have to face the accuser or the one they accuse), and witnesses and evidence is able to be cross examined and scrutinised (as it should be) - to see if it holds up. ‘Here say’ is also not able to be used as evidence. The ‘John Doe’ you know may be truthful, but here, whilst they remain anonymous, how can it be anything more then “Hear Say?” Across your video and the ‘Minor Prophets’ videos there are still people who share positive experiences of Shawn with information they believe could not have been scrapped from social media. Would you be up for speaking with them also? It’s hard in social media (or the court of public opinion) to give just and fair rendering of an entire situation (I believe). Without it just becoming ‘public opinion’. Proverbs 18:17 (NIV) In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines. Without the proper ability for Shawn (or Kris) to respond to what is presented here, or what is presented to be ‘cross examined’ (so to speak) - I feel it’s wise to be pretty careful with what’s presented, and wait to see what becomes of it before jumping to any given conclusion. 🧡🕊️ Or labelling a person this or that. Thanks again.
Bethel doesn’t have to…. They don’t want to scrape the top of this mountain. I think they will hope it fades away. There’s probably more there than they want to admit. This would start the damn to break. 🙈🙉🙊
"The dam will start to break." Yes. More will be exposed. Not about Shawn, but about other Bethel leaders, other deceptive practices, etc. It's only a matter of time.
Glad you're back and good to see you👍🏼 Can you post a link to the actual problem that these specific videos are about that you are discussing here??- I keep watching your videos, but have missed the main detail of the subject and can't seem to catch up with that we're talking about- except the normal fake prophecies etc etc etc Thanks!
I’ve seen this coming for 20 years minimally, heightened since 2020. This is so bad; those repentant, broken and humbled will lay the foundations for future ministry. All glory must go to God.
I have been a Christian for 45 years- in the charismatic movement early on. Now I’m a visual artist in Asheville NC and work alongside LGBT persons. I will say this - they have more integrity and tenderness toward others than all of these so called prophets put together. Thankfully people like you, Ray Curry, Laura Lynne are giving the hidden and victimized ones a voice.
This is why we can't be leader dependent, but we must be well fed by our own relationship with God so we can hear for ourselves instead of running to a prophet for a word. Our lives are totally dependent on hearing the guidance of the Holy Spirit for ourselves. There is no substitute.
We are told We must work put our own salvation, we must read the word The word is a treasure map, I myself bought some of Shawn’s books took his on line classes even had submitted a dream that I had for interpretation All interactions didn’t sit right with me. However coming from being raised Catholic & constantly holding that God could use men to teach me But it would never be only one man or one organization It would be a little here a little there but all from the word You grow in understanding Thank you for this video it confirms what I was thinking
My faith definitely changed. I don’t know where I am now. I would say: I knew there was something like God I once believed. But today it feels all so far away. I was closer to God, before I went to BethelBSSM, than today. Very sad 😔 I know.
Bottom line we are each responsible to develop discernment & our teachers should help...dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. True prophetic is sooo valuable.
After 2020, the “prophetic movement” had been exposed but what it actually is, a bunch of opportunistic, exaggerated, greedy deceivers …. I pray they continue to being exposed and gone for good…
Bethel has to do something? They're just as false and it's about the money... the shaking will continue until people repent.. don't give up if you're discouraged by the false... the True is TRUER! God is faithful.... hold fast to the Lord... He will keep us while everything shakes.
Saw SB at River Camp in the UK. It was clear it was a total con but the leaders of River Camp thought he was wonderful. People almost idolised him. Heidi Baker was there at the same time and was conned by him as well. Where is the decernment amongst these people. The ordinary church punter could clear see it was all fake but the leaders didnt😢
Not taking sides, but it would be amazing if God’s people had more prayer meetings instead of exposure videos. This is one of the main reasons Christianity is so unattractive to outsiders…when we are grieved over sin, let it be a call to intercessory prayers, with weeping & repenting for all our sins (like Daniel did)…if one member suffers, we all suffer! Perhaps this might cause God’s hand to move others to repent. We will all stand before God’s judgment one day. Lord, have mercy on your divided church! May we rend our hearts & not our garments (Joel 2) so that we grow into the mature, spotless Bride Christ desires. Forgive us Oh Lord!
Valloton and the rest of these false prophets and false teachers don’t want their(fake) prophetic money train to be lost along with Bolz. Grrrr these people anger me so bad
there was that text that kris sent Jubilee that said “if you feel like you want to sue him you should sue him.” its up to the individual. It’s been many years now I’m not sure if she will but she should I believe. These prophetic criminals need to be prosecuted.
I felt your anguish from the onset of this video. I Thank Jesus for bringing you back to Himself. The whole "Prophetic Movement" has strayed so far from Chapter and Verse in the Bible, in context! Fortunately, God woke me up to it real quick (spare the details). Where in the New Testament do we see what has gone on in the NAR? We don't. What do we see in the Old Testament Prophets? Their job was to keep leaders and God's people disciplined, safe from deceivers, and to CALL OUT SIN in the camp, so the whole camp would not be contaminated with sin! Kris V. lost me when he met Pope Francis and was so proud to announce he was a "deeply spiritual" man of God.! A REAL PROPHET would have discerned the spirit of that man, and whom He serves, and warned the world. It seems the general consensus of how people view Prophets now, is that they should be foretelling the future and telling people what decisions to make. Isn't the Holy Spirit dwelling within every born-again believer in Jesus Christ? It seems to me, people would rather run to a "prophet" then hear the voice of Jesus. That is so, so dangerous, and, yes, so many lives have been harmed or destroyed. Jesus IS the Living Word of God, and His voice will ALWAYS line up with Chapter and Verse. Get back to the Word and fellowship with Jesus Christ. I talk to Him all day, every day, throughout my days. My prayers are to hear Him more and more clearly. I appreciate the broken heart and humility you came forward with. God Bless You and Yours.
So. It is sad and heartbreaking. People are responsible for what they do though. The cleanup stings. We all do bad things. But very few of us do bad stuff that effects other people in the scale of this. Money and power and sex...
Good to see you back. The year of reckoning. I mean c'mon, is anyone ( in the 5 fold/ NAR/New Wine/Holy Ghost camp) dealing with the ten ton elephant in the room?! For 29 years Shawn has been platformed one way or another. Over the last fifteen years he's shared the stage and the spotlight with every charismatic leader and been interviewed countless times. Not one word about any of this from any of them. They either didn't know ( think about it) or didn't care. Make a list of the charismatic leaders who said one peep to warn the flock. Go ahead. 1.----? 2.----?🦗🦗🦗
I met Shawn at my pastors house in 2012 before he was known for all these words of knowledge. I instantly had fake vibes from him. I could never put my finger on why. Well now I know!
I understand why he’s talking at a lower tone of voice due to his children sleeping and doing it at 2:00 in the morning… I totally respect that. Here’s what helped me .. even tho I have excellent hearing I could not hear it with the volume maxed. the only way I could hear this was to use my earbuds with the volume maxed. Then it was doable. 💡Maybe this was a good reminder to consider how people who really ARE hard of hearing feel, since I’ve never dealt with that thankfully. 🤔
I've been wrestling with this since I heard the news. I'm so hurt by this. I was directly affected. Bethel NEEDS TO! But also the church in Las Vegas that he frequented for YEARS!
Thank you so much for posting this info! I have known Shawn Bolz is a fake prophet for years! I did not have the receipts until recently! Bless you for your boldness to speak truth! Keep it coming please!! 👍🙏😟
In all this our hope is in the revelation of Jesus Christ. Do not be dismayed sisters and brothers! Rejoice the Lord is faithful and He is moved by the faith of people, not by the words of flawed ministers. God is restoring. He is redeeming! Stay in Him and fix your eyes on Jesus. He turns everything around for the good of those who love Him.
I am sick to my stomach. I think the KV texts were undeniable. I believed Shawn and have partnered with his ministry, bought his books, and joined his online mentoring group. We weren’t sure if the rumors were true, we contacted a pastor who fellowships with these circles. He told us that he has had this reputation of data mining for a while that’s why he doesn’t have Shawn minister at his church. After that my husband threw all his books away.I wish I would have known. I wish KV, would have put out a statement. Just to be certain, we know his words of knowledge are fake, he data mined them. Does this make his stories false as well? Like seeing Corrie Tin Boom show up in his apartment? Seeing Jesus big toe? And seeing Bill Johnson’s dad talking to Bob Jones in Heaven?
Sure hope there's a way to bring this out in the open in a way th❤at doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water. These gifts are certainly biblical, but maybe all along there should have been more emphasis on God's righteousness in the midst of preaching on intimacy with the Father, which seems to have bred too much familiarity with the Father of Lights without any self examination. The lack of integrity amongst what we all took to be Godly men, is extremely disturbing. Thank you for bringing this out. ❤
God uses prophesy and prophets to give insight ABOUT HIM. About Jesus. Full stop. This other stuff is just self serving “future/fortune telling”. That’s never been the purpose or point of prophesy. Spend time in the Word and study it. It will be easier to avoid this kind of nonsense.
I recall a convention in Minneapolis when Shawn was acknowledged as a young prophet. I remember Shawn said he was playing a video game and the Lord appeared to him. He ignored Jesus and continued to play his video game. ???
I appreciate everything you’re saying. It’s magic in the church. Lost or saved, people fall for magic. But I really think you are giving these clowns too much credit. This is an exhortation to the church to READ THE WORD!!! The truth will set you FREE. You MUST KNOW THE TRUTH SO YOU’RE WISE TO THE LIES!!! Please church, STUDY THE WORD!
I came out of the movement last March. It was and is a process to say the least. Thank you for lifting ip your voice. It is people like you who have given me clarity and validation. Sad to think I was decieved by these fasle teachers/prophets for 7 years. Praise be to God for exposing these wolves and shining the light of truth.
Hi Jesse, happened upon this video. I grew up with Shawn, know his family, and launched his first personal ministry forever ago. What has caused him much trouble in the past is following the bad advice from his “spiritual mom” who was always at odds with church/ministry leadership wherever she was for basic insubordination and skipping the part of life called learning responsibility and integrity. It’s heartbreaking to see the long trail of destruction including me and my family but those that were his protecting peers like Joyner or Bickle are also falling down. Only time until he was brought out into the open. 💔
Thank you for sharing this
who is?
Greetings in the name of Jesus, my brother Jesse it’s good to see you again. May the Lord be with you and your family always keep you in health and sound say amen.
@ thank you 🙏🏼
I came out of NAR after 30 years when pandemic hit. I feel so free now that I know the truth of the Bible completely. The false prophets and teachers take everything out of context. I only read verses in context now. God bless you brother. Keep speaking out.
There was no NAR in 1990
@@JewandGreekYou know that's not true. Strange comment to make.
@@JewandGreekYou know what you said isn't true. What a strange comment.
Dr Michael “daddy” Clown clearly says the NAR doesn’t exist.
Sorry I’m new to this; What is NAR?
I’m one of those people who got married based on a prophecy and it was a nightmare. I have since left the prophetic movement. I’m 100% behind speaking out about this stuff. Thank you!
Wow 😮 where did you get your word? Was it BSSM?
That’s too bad… i have never had a prophecy go wrong over me… if you don’t have in something, though, don’t ever expect it to be anything but sin to you… what was said may not have been fake, you may simply never have received it…
Your victim blaming is showing. Solid theology
I can never imagine doing something as getting married because someone prophesied that I should marry this person. I would say this to you there are three lights of direction that we get from the Lord. One can be from friends or prophecies and so forth in our church. The second is confirmation in your own spirit. Will you have taken time to seek the Lord to give you confirmation. And third you should find a confirmation in the word of God. I remember in the late 70s and early 80s the Shepparton doctrine that had people in control over other people. People could not make any decisions unless they first went to their Shepherd.Totally not found in scripture
While I am not glad that lives have been wrecked, I am VERY THANKFUL that the truth is coming out!!!!! I have been praying for this very thing for years!!!! I will keep on, keeping on.
I’ve come out of this movement as well. We have to continue to speak truth and speak up. It’s what Paul did as well. You’re in the right and you’re appreciated. Keep on, brother. The truth speaks a better word.
Thank you
All the false prophets of the NAR take the name of the Lord in vain. You're right they are hurting people and ruining lives.
It’s so sad
God bless you and yours Jesse, thank you for sharing. The fallout of this “prophetic” deception has tentacles everywhere, not just Bolz and company. 40 years in charismainia, and stories that date back to the early 80’s. The worst part is, the people that may never experience heaven because of these “prophetic” leaders. God have mercy 🙏🏻✝️
Sad but true 😢
Jesse, they are all fake and liars. Shawn is just the most obvious. Kris and others are no different than Shawn. They are just better at lying. Don't you agree? Also, Bethel should make a statement of rebuke but that means they need to rebuke themselves and repent themselves. That's why they won't make a statement
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. They aren't "all" liars
💯 There are people in the Body of,Christ with true and verified prophetic gifting! Seen this demonstrated for over fifty years! These fakes are are just grifting and out to make easy money and get fame!
@@PixivityComputerSpecialists lol. I don't think there is a baby in those waters over there...
@@gerimartin6558 yeah the guy doing this video is one of those you’re talking about trying to gain fame
Yeah Kris is just worried that Shawn will make him and Bethel look bad. It has nothing to do with the falseness of the "prophecies". They're just mad at Shawn for exposing them all further.
I hope you managed to get some sleep. I'm thankful for your soft heart. You really care for the body of Christ and the sheep. Make sure you take care of yourself as this is heartbreaking stuff...
Thank you 🙏🏼
It’s deception and men covering it because they’re afraid of their kingdoms crumbling. God doesn’t need anyone to protect the prophetic movement. The true prophetic will stand against any scrutiny.
💯👍True prophetic will stand, despite these poor excuses for leaders covering up the fakesters!
I can see the goodness and honesty in you. Im glad you held your faith, i am in this change right now. Thank you for this.
Thank you
So much wickedness in the church. Continue to call it out into the light!
so true
Does the pain get better? Im trying so hard to deconstruct coming out of this movement. Its been 7months since we left our church. Ive figured out the deceptions i was under but it still feels like ive lost my entire family and cant move on. They were heavily bethel influenced. Our pastors studied there a time. They are planting bethel sydney now 😢 i have destroyed my health through a psychosomatic healing of 18months from chronic illness. They "spoke over me". Its just so messed up Jesse. You know this. I guess I just want to know from someone whos been through it, does it get better? It feels so painful.
I have small kids and trying so hard to keep my mental state together.
Let me know any words of wisdom, or just comforting to know theres a community out there that understands. Thanks for all you do.
My husband and I found a wonderful bible church but it took several years of visiting churches. Please don't give up!
I prefer to “disentangle” the truth from the lies rather than “deconstruct”
It does. I promise it does. But it is hard. Jesus is worth it though
In all your ways acknowledge the Lord and He will make your ways straight.
The American Church is heavily influenced by Pentecostalism in general, so it will be very difficult to find a church that doesn’t incorporate some type of Pentecostal influence (songs, books, people in the congregation being influenced, etc…). The cessationist Reformed camp (Jmac, etc…) have a myriad of their own serious problems related to control and abuse. This has been very painful for me to navigate and continues to be. However, it’s possible to begin a healing journey - you’ll never arrive at a destination but you will see progress - more than maybe you think possible. I would highly recommend finding a counselor who is specialized in religious trauma (Diane Langberg and Laura Anderson have practices) and then read good books to understand what happened to you (Combatting Cult Influence, John Collins’ William Branham podcast). You will not find a “safe” church, ie, a church where everyone understands you perfectly and will not harm you in some way. You CAN find a safe-enough church. You CAN find a relationship with God that is safe and that will be a sanctuary to rest in - but it will take time and be difficult to wade through all the confusing crap you were taught about God. Find a support group if you can.
TWO of my close friends were called out and given words by him at a conference! They were BOTH called out by their Facebook profile names!
Omgosh 😂
One thing that I find odd is the confrontations asking Bolz to repent. This isn’t just about him being caught in fleshly sin. His behavior is one of a person who has zero belief in or fear of the God of the Bible. He’s not a believer. I know it’s hard for people caught up in these movements to accept that people like him can be so evil/deceptive, but it’s true. That’s why it’s especially egregious that the people who promoted him are staying silent. He’s a spiritual and financial predator and an enemy of the Gospel.
“The scale to which people have uprooted their lives…” That’s the key to understanding how sociopathic men and women like this are. Seared consciences and mockers of the Holy Spirit.
yup
@@faith_reframed Btw, apologies that my comment originally posted twice for some reason. Appreciate your videos.
So true! Most people cannot understand how truly evil these psychopaths are! Zero fear of God and fake to the bone! 😠😩
Thankful 🙏🏻these men are being exposed and held accountable if not at Bethel, online and publicly.
agreed
It' been a year of me waking up and I am grateful!!
Praise the Lord!
This movement also ruined my faith. Currently deconstructing and going through the painful process of repentance and rebuilding my faith in Christ. Now free from all this nonsense and learning the Word of God in context. Planning to craft a communication to my close friends who are still in Redding at Bethel and warn them and share my testimony of how God led me out. Bethel is a cult. My time there produced catastrophic consequences to my life and finances. And there are countless others just like me who have suffered at the hand of the False Church. SO SO thankful God opened my eyes! Thanks Jesse.
Wow 😮 praise the lord
Hold strong to Jesus, he will help see you out through the narrow gate 🙏🏾
Oh Jesse I hear the hurt and distress in your voice. I know these were important people in your life, and to see them failing the Church has to be SO hard for you. I appreciate your transparency and vulnerability. I’m praying for you, Brother❤🙏🏻
So good getting your perspective and input on this!
Thanks so much!
Shawn gave me a word on fb live in 2021. About buying a house. That God had a house for me and it was part of my destiny and that I would be getting the house soon. That it wasn't far off. Well it's 2025 and I still have no house. But regardless of what Shawn said I know that God has a house for my kids and I and knowing that he was wrong releases me from feeling like I did something wrong. Because I felt like I had since I dont have a house yet.
I’m so sorry 😞
God tends to drop false prophets like flies. He is eradicating the church of evildoers. Praise God! Still very heart breaking and I pray that the victims of these wolves would have a deep restorative healing by the power of the Holy Spirit.
The fact that Kris wanted to save his own skin ultimately is also disturbing. I say this because he himself wrote the prophetic handbook. If anything it would have made it better by outting the false prophets publicly, but hiding it does even more damage to the movement. It seems he acted out of fear instead of wisdom. I attended BSSD from 2018-2022. This hurts to see but it doesn’t surprise me either.
As a co leader of Bethel Church and head of the School of Ministry, he is held responsible for this. God went straight to Adam and asked what happened. The covering is responsible.
I hope and pray for repentance from multiple parties and healing and restoration for the victims.
Brother, I would love to take you up on your final comments and talk with you. I have also been deeply damaged by the movement and the teachings and am still healing. Thankfully my faith has been in tact, but hanging on by a thread to start. I would love to connect with you. God bless 🙏🏻
The reformed Calvinist camp is next. So many false Gospels.
So thankful for you Jesse!
🙏🏼
Thank you for sharing this information. Prayers for the victims.
🙏🏼
Set free from NAR WOF many many years ago and I am grateful for Gods word that showed me truth!
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Thank u for sharing and thank u for reminding us that this is a sad thing, not to be celebrated, but to be thankful to the Lord for bringing it to light.
Agreed!
AGREE! Lord move Your True ppl to DO RIGHT!
I have walked with the Lord since April 1,1979. Have been a part of many denominations… grew up Episcopal(mother), Methodist(dad)..have been a part of PCA, Southern Bapt. Now have been in nondenom(s)for about 34 yrs. I am so sorry to hear how far you traveled from your faith but PRAISE God you are back! The hard thing for those of us who were raised with knowledge but no ‘power’ is that Acts seemed like a ‘fairy tale’. Not many treat it as the amazing event that it was. So, for me, seeing a faith that BELIEVES that miracles still happen and have an expectancy is life giving… but in these last days, these crazy times; knowing who to line up with, lean in to, is getting harder.. what we do know, is PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, do not put our trust in them!
After the charismatic renewal (which started off well) went sideways, the Pentecostal movement began warning their members to not mingle with them. This is exactly why.
Ripping verses from context, making scripture subjective to experience, creating weird doctrines that made the apostles of the Lamb look faithless...the charismatic movement infected the Pentecostals and we've been purging that influence to go back to our roots - prayer, fasting and the Word. Cessationism isn't the answer. Being biblical is.
💯👍
💯💯💯 Very well said! 👏👏👏
I like how you separated charismatic and pentecostal. I always use them interchangeably. I won't anymore, especially since I grew up Pentecostal.
I think that is so common, unfortunately, that the ones who speak out against crimes against God are vilified, while the law breakers are defended by those still either deceived or as guilty. It's obvious to those of us who who know, that fame and clicks are not the motivation. Thank you for standing up for the deceived. God bless you and your family🙏💗
Thank you
Sadly, this is a common thread in the hyper-charismatic world. One thing I have noticed is these "prophets" and "apostles" preach transparency, accountability and walking in the light. But if it has the potential to damage the image or reputation of their ministry or church its covered up or brushed off as quickly as they can. Don't preach about building the kingdom and then do everything you can to protect your own little kingdom you have built. Infuriating!
Thank u ...I got stories how I got wounded with sozo ministry..in Nz .. got betrayed big time...but my faith in Jesus..has never gone ..blessings
So sorry 😞
Sozo ministry, I have had 2, it’s puts way too much responsibility on the recipient. It can leave people open to all sorts of problems
Hi Phil, I'm so sorry for your experience, the pain, and the betrayal.
May I ask for forgiveness on behalf of the minister and ministry? Father, with Your permission, I ask if I might stand in the gap? I'm not sure I was sent as Jonah was, but I feel the pain and trust that my petition will form part of the healing and restoration.
Please forgive us Phil and Father God for causing pain and suffering, for misleading and being unwise. Forgive us for being irresponsible and unsubmitted, stiff necked and arrogant. I ask for Your balm of Gilead to be administered for healing and restoration. Where there is suffering Father we ask for healing. Not just for Phil, but others who read this, and who might have been hurt. I also ask for mature, seasoned, humble, hungry, teachable and wise counsel to come around those who have similar experiences that the joy of Worshipping you in community may be restored. In Jesus name I ask.
I have ministered in this and am keenly aware of how this can be mis-used and thank you brother for sharing and calling us to account.
If Bethel and places like them don’t want to be considered cults, they need to stop acting like cults. Because quietly shunting aside bad actors like Shawn and preserving appearance and reputation above all is cult behavior.
true
Preach! Cult like behavior to cover up sin no matter what! 💯👍🙏
Been following & praying since 2018 that things in the "institution of the church/ministry machine get cleaned up 🙏~ Christina
sure is
Why would Bethel do something about it? They will still have followers, they are making loads of money. This is what I think they care about the most. That and status as God's annointed people. Bill Johsnon has had Kenneth Copeland come to Bethel and called him, I believe the words were very similar to: "one of the most Godly men I know" or something to that effect. Benny Hinn is a speaker at the Bethel Cleveland Holy Spirit conference this March. It's a wolf pack.
Yup
Thank you for being obedient to the Lord and sharing this knowledge. I pray for God's grace, peace & protection on you & your family.
Thanks 🙏🏼
Bob Hartley did a form of "data mining" also. This was exposed by the testimony of his own son.
100%
Around the 14:00 mark, the same can be said when Mike Winger said the same "I should’ve been harder." Regarding to Bill Johnson and the Bethel movement before he critiqued "The Physics of Heaven." Learn to be gracious on yourself because we are finite. We are not all-knowing nor ever-present. If we were, we wouldn’t be here in making videos correcting ourselves, just like Mike Winger. (Mike - if you are watching this, just know that we [capital C Church] loves you, but being overtly gracious can be as detrimental as one who cares not at all). That is my two-cents, that is why we are here. So take my advice with consideration.
This makes me very sad. I knew Cherie (pre-marriage) when I worked for a church in Las Vegas. She’s a genuinely kind and loving person. I hope she’s ok. I’m grieved for everyone who’s been affected by this.
It has been frustrating for many that have been calling out these false prophets and teachers for years, and yet just now all of a sudden they want to talk about. People like myself were and continue to be called names because we desire the true move of the Holy Spirit and point to the Scripture. I'm not a cessationist and I believe God can heal and do whatever He wants, but it must be done as shown in Scripture. The Word says that it has everything we need for this life- we do not need to have all these fake prophets and teachers. Because we as Christians have put more impact on Spiritual Works rather than in an already prophecy in the Word, people are being deceived. Vallaton is a horrible example of today's leaders in the church- but he's not the only one.
it is frustrating. And just to be clear. Majority of Cessationist would agree with you that we pray for healing and that God still heals. The healing that happen just aren't the fruit of the "gift of healing". Even Justin Peters would agree with that statement.
@@faith_reframedYou might be interested to know there are actually true prophets and apostles out there with the same integrity and correct focus as the apostle Paul for instance. I know if first hand. Sad to see all the false stuff out there that caused people to even turn against clear scriptural teaching (or make it say what fits their experience.) If your curious, a true prophetic and apostolic movement is all about knowing Christ and growing into maturity. Much love, man!
Thank you for alerting us. The UK needs to know this too. So much falling apart and being exposed
I am from the UK but left a long time ago. I think God left our churches some time before the late 80's. In the early 80's there was a tiny glimpse of what it could be.
Long story .. but anyone who is hungering and thirsting for righteousness will be filled with Wisdom to know why these things happened and what is probably going to happen in the future.
Keep speaking the truth. I pray for my friends who are still involved with these new age teachings.
Bethel is not going to come out and say something because they are just as false as Shawn.
yup
Because of false proficiency my brother became an atheist. After 18 years he still is. This was a young man who was a powerful missionary in Cambodia
totally been there. So sorry to hear that
Bethel and its leaders, including Kris, often avoid publicly acknowledging their errors, particularly in the realm of prophecy. Kris has built a career on the premise that it’s acceptable for prophets to make mistakes. However, a closer look at the Old Testament reveals the serious consequences of false prophecy. Many of these individuals claim to hold prophetic offices, but I hope that, by God’s grace, they come to repentance. The gravity of misusing God’s sacred Word is not to be taken lightly.
Having been closely connected to Bethel for 15 years before stepping away, I recognize the importance of repentance-not just for those leaders, but for all of us who have played a role in idolizing and elevating them. It is crucial that we reflect, repent, and return to a reverent understanding of God’s Word.
Love that you’re urging to retain and remain in the faith!
🙌🏼
Thanks for the video Jesse. I remember the advent of the NAR, founded by the late Peter Wagner and being alarmed by their doctrinal statements. I believe God is cleaning house in the movement. Quite honestly, Bethel is a haven for “every wind of doctrine.”
definitely some clean up happening.
What blows my mind is how anybody in this age of technology didn't think of this Bolz guy using a social media platform to mine information on attendees. It's the first thought that I had when I saw his shtick.
What made if believable is that there are lots of prophetic true words, too, and I have seen God get specific from very true, character filled prophets. I have experienced something similar to that myself. I do hear what you’re saying, though!
The wolves are being exposed in the sheep pen !!! 😮
I work for a woman who came to my country as a missionary sent by Bethel. She graduated from the school around the same time as you. You might even know her.
I recognize Shawn Bolz name from books she reads. And my eyes were opened to all this prophetic craziness because of her. She teaches people how to prophesy and the prophetic is her business.
She teaches you how to prophesy at a price and teaches you how to "process" your prophetic words so they come to pass.
They have a high view of self and a surprisingly low veiw of Christ. And it's terrifying how their reach is creeping deeper into the culture of Christianity in my country.
"She came to my country as a *missionary* sent by Bethel." A missionary sent not to share the true Gospel, but to spread the Bethel "gospel," which includes how to falsely prophesy. If that doesn't make everyone's eyes open that this is "another gospel" that Paul warns about in Galatians, then nothing will. You're 100% right that it's about having a high view of self and a low view of Christ. I blindly was into this for 15 years+ until the Holy Spirit mercifully opened my eyes. It's a cult.
wow! can we connect? I'm Very curious about this
@@faith_reframed Sure! How can I contact you?
Can you name names and country please, to help others? Thanks.
@@john4226 The country is Nigeria. The name, she isn't really known. I'd be happy to share privately but I doubt many people would recognize her because she's still "upcoming". She has a school and church in Cameroon and the one in Kenya failed but she's trying to get it running again.
She's preparing an online school of supernatural ministry tailored towards Africa and trust me, the curriculum is full of dangerous Bethel theology. Going through it was what opened my eyes about it at first.
Thank you posting this. For change to happen we (as a body) need to say enough is enough and no longer support religious organisations who do not take care of people but their profit.
Thanks for this! My wife and I met at first year, and God brought us out!
That’s a crazy story! What year was that?
We went to 1st year in August 2019. She's German, so she was here on a student visa. So this was the year when Olive had passed away. Interestingly, my wife was getting so many prophetic words at the time about the mission trips, and yet they were ALL cancelled at the beginning of the year due to covid. No prophecies about that... At a school of prophets. We got engaged and ended up moving to Germany to get married the following year instead of going to 2nd year. And it was really during that time that God had reshaped our theology. We're in San Diego now, going to a reformed church. Thank God!!
Thanks for your ministry and all you do!
@@mitchellryanguerra
That's sad. I grew up I'm the Reformed Church. It was dead, lifeless, and no one told me who Jesus was. They don't even teach the true gospel in that denomination.
@Mint-kj9kw You are making extreme generalizations. I have two questions for you: What is your definition of dead and lifeless? And what is the true gospel to which you are referring?
This is heartbreaking to hear, I was part of E58 from 2008 to 2010. I personally met with Shawn and he had a word of knowledge about me that was accurate and he had no way of knowing because we never talked about it before.
I wonder if he felt pressure to perform like many ministers do and decided to fake the gift 🤷♂️ “Let everything that is hidden be revealed”
so sorry to hear that
He's also blatantly ripping off older videos from other ministries. Heres an example where he copies a video from 6 years ago almost word for word from reading his notes, not even trying to hide it.
Original
Channel: Troy Brewer
Video: "222 - Uncovering Signs, Miracles and Wonders"
Starting at 32 seconds into the video.
Blatant ripoff
Shawn Bolz video 3 months ago:
"Prophetic Word: 222-God is Giving You a Key! What's About to Happen"
Starts 11 minutes into the video.
Wow....thanks for bringing the receipts!👍🙏
Thank you Kris, I appreciate you speaking out about this. I left a church a while back that was in the charismatic evangelical movement. I came from a broken place and didn’t have good critical thinking skills. I was conditioned to think in extremes and just expect God to deliver the desires of my heart. I reflect back on my life and grieve wasting many years of my life. I feel sad for people who are vulnerable and still being led by prophetic leaders. It’s very difficult to reason with them and they just see me as a backslidden or lukewarm Christian. I have been wrestling and deconstructed some of my theology but don’t have enough Faith to be an Atheist. I am just trying to rebuild and work on my mental health.
I appreciate you, Brother. That was so helpful to share that it's possible to come out of this mess without losing your faith - it's the best & (I argue, only) way to fully be extracted and find true healing. I pray for you & your family and may more sleep come when possible. May He strengthen you in deepest way.
thank you
I pray for your voice not to be stopped and protection and blessings for sharing truth! 😊
Thank you! 🙏🏼
It is no small thing for these types of accusations. (With regards to any person).
In a court, people aren’t able to give testimony anonymously (they have to face the accuser or the one they accuse), and witnesses and evidence is able to be cross examined and scrutinised (as it should be) - to see if it holds up.
‘Here say’ is also not able to be used as evidence.
The ‘John Doe’ you know may be truthful, but here, whilst they remain anonymous, how can it be anything more then “Hear Say?”
Across your video and the ‘Minor Prophets’ videos there are still people who share positive experiences of Shawn with information they believe could not have been scrapped from social media.
Would you be up for speaking with them also?
It’s hard in social media (or the court of public opinion) to give just and fair rendering of an entire situation (I believe).
Without it just becoming ‘public opinion’.
Proverbs 18:17 (NIV) In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines.
Without the proper ability for Shawn (or Kris) to respond to what is presented here, or what is presented to be ‘cross examined’ (so to speak) - I feel it’s wise to be pretty careful with what’s presented, and wait to see what becomes of it before jumping to any given conclusion. 🧡🕊️
Or labelling a person this or that.
Thanks again.
Glad your video was on my feed!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
thanks! not sure tbh
Bethel doesn’t have to…. They don’t want to scrape the top of this mountain. I think they will hope it fades away. There’s probably more there than they want to admit. This would start the damn to break. 🙈🙉🙊
Yup
"The dam will start to break." Yes. More will be exposed. Not about Shawn, but about other Bethel leaders, other deceptive practices, etc. It's only a matter of time.
Glad you're back and good to see you👍🏼
Can you post a link to the actual problem that these specific videos are about that you are discussing here??- I keep watching your videos, but have missed the main detail of the subject and can't seem to catch up with that we're talking about- except the normal fake prophecies etc etc etc
Thanks!
I’ve seen this coming for 20 years minimally, heightened since 2020. This is so bad; those repentant, broken and humbled will lay the foundations for future ministry. All glory must go to God.
I have been a Christian for 45 years- in the charismatic movement early on. Now I’m a visual artist in Asheville NC and work alongside LGBT persons. I will say this - they have more integrity and tenderness toward others than all of these so called prophets put together.
Thankfully people like you, Ray Curry, Laura Lynne are giving the hidden and victimized ones a voice.
Hey Deborah, I live close to Raleigh and love Asheville. Did you get hit hard by the hurricane?
@@theouterplanetyes! Thanks for asking
This is why we can't be leader dependent, but we must be well fed by our own relationship with God so we can hear for ourselves instead of running to a prophet for a word. Our lives are totally dependent on hearing the guidance of the Holy Spirit for ourselves. There is no substitute.
💯👍Amen and so foundational!
We are told We must work put our own salvation, we must read the word The word is a treasure map, I myself bought some of Shawn’s books took his on line classes even had submitted a dream that I had for interpretation All interactions didn’t sit right with me. However coming from being raised Catholic & constantly holding that God could use men to teach me But it would never be only one man or one organization It would be a little here a little there but all from the word You grow in understanding Thank you for this video it confirms what I was thinking
My faith definitely changed. I don’t know where I am now. I would say: I knew there was something like God I once believed. But today it feels all so far away. I was closer to God, before I went to BethelBSSM, than today. Very sad 😔 I know.
when did you go to BSSM?
No wonder Revelation talks about cowards not entering God’s Kingdom. All these leaders staying quiet 😡
right!
Bottom line we are each responsible to develop discernment & our teachers should help...dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. True prophetic is sooo valuable.
I agree!! All churches that had him ..shud sue..for allowing a lier and a con artist to steal and manipulate
After 2020, the “prophetic movement” had been exposed but what it actually is, a bunch of opportunistic, exaggerated, greedy deceivers …. I pray they continue to being exposed and gone for good…
Bethel has to do something? They're just as false and it's about the money... the shaking will continue until people repent.. don't give up if you're discouraged by the false... the True is TRUER! God is faithful.... hold fast to the Lord... He will keep us while everything shakes.
Saw SB at River Camp in the UK. It was clear it was a total con but the leaders of River Camp thought he was wonderful.
People almost idolised him. Heidi Baker was there at the same time and was conned by him as well.
Where is the decernment amongst these people.
The ordinary church punter could clear see it was all fake but the leaders didnt😢
So sad 😞
Unfortunately, Heidi is fake as well.
Heidi Baker. She’s another weirdo.
Weve all been tricked by our "celebrity" worship & we all needed the clean up in our interpretation skills.
We are growing up.
sorry … not all of us
Not taking sides, but it would be amazing if God’s people had more prayer meetings instead of exposure videos. This is one of the main reasons Christianity is so unattractive to outsiders…when we are grieved over sin, let it be a call to intercessory prayers, with weeping & repenting for all our sins (like Daniel did)…if one member suffers, we all suffer! Perhaps this might cause God’s hand to move others to repent. We will all stand before God’s judgment one day. Lord, have mercy on your divided church! May we rend our hearts & not our garments (Joel 2) so that we grow into the mature, spotless Bride Christ desires. Forgive us Oh Lord!
Valloton and the rest of these false prophets and false teachers don’t want their(fake) prophetic money train to be lost along with Bolz. Grrrr these people anger me so bad
Agreed
I would think this is also illegal activity and that Shawn could be charged and incarcerated for defrauding the public.
there was that text that kris sent Jubilee that said “if you feel like you want to sue him you should sue him.” its up to the individual.
It’s been many years now I’m not sure if she will but she should I believe. These prophetic criminals need to be prosecuted.
Sad and yet encouraging. God is at work. Thank you Minor Prophets.
They don’t rightly divide the word.
I felt your anguish from the onset of this video. I Thank Jesus for bringing you back to Himself.
The whole "Prophetic Movement" has strayed so far from Chapter and Verse in the Bible, in context! Fortunately, God woke me up to it real quick (spare the details).
Where in the New Testament do we see what has gone on in the NAR? We don't.
What do we see in the Old Testament Prophets? Their job was to keep leaders and God's people disciplined, safe from deceivers, and to CALL OUT SIN in the camp, so the whole camp would not be contaminated with sin!
Kris V. lost me when he met Pope Francis and was so proud to announce he was a "deeply spiritual" man of God.!
A REAL PROPHET would have discerned the spirit of that man, and whom He serves, and warned the world.
It seems the general consensus of how people view Prophets now, is that they should be foretelling the future and telling people what decisions to make.
Isn't the Holy Spirit dwelling within every born-again believer in Jesus Christ? It seems to me, people would rather run to a "prophet" then hear the voice of Jesus. That is so, so dangerous, and, yes, so many lives have been harmed or destroyed.
Jesus IS the Living Word of God, and His voice will ALWAYS line up with Chapter and Verse.
Get back to the Word and fellowship with Jesus Christ. I talk to Him all day, every day, throughout my days. My prayers are to hear Him more and more clearly.
I appreciate the broken heart and humility you came forward with. God Bless You and Yours.
Amen- my faith is strong… confused about a lot…but I have been unraveling since summer.
praying for you sis
So. It is sad and heartbreaking. People are responsible for what they do though. The cleanup stings. We all do bad things. But very few of us do bad stuff that effects other people in the scale of this.
Money and power and sex...
Good to see you back.
The year of reckoning.
I mean c'mon, is anyone ( in the 5 fold/ NAR/New Wine/Holy Ghost camp)
dealing with the ten ton elephant in the room?!
For 29 years Shawn has been platformed one way or another. Over the last fifteen years he's shared the stage and the spotlight with every charismatic leader and been interviewed countless times.
Not one word about any of this from any of them.
They either didn't know ( think about it) or didn't care.
Make a list of the charismatic leaders who said one peep to warn the flock. Go ahead.
1.----?
2.----?🦗🦗🦗
Thanks 🙏🏼
So many people are going to be hurt.. lord touch their hearts and convict these mens hearts
so sad
I met Shawn at my pastors house in 2012 before he was known for all these words of knowledge. I instantly had fake vibes from him. I could never put my finger on why. Well now I know!
This is beyong crazy!! Prayers for you my friend🥰 i can see ur pain.
Thank you 🙏🏼
I understand why he’s talking at a lower tone of voice due to his children sleeping and doing it at 2:00 in the morning… I totally respect that. Here’s what helped me .. even tho I have excellent hearing I could not hear it with the volume maxed. the only way I could hear this was to use my earbuds with the volume maxed. Then it was doable.
💡Maybe this was a good reminder to consider how people who really ARE hard of hearing feel, since I’ve never dealt with that thankfully. 🤔
I've been wrestling with this since I heard the news. I'm so hurt by this. I was directly affected. Bethel NEEDS TO! But also the church in Las Vegas that he frequented for YEARS!
So sorry
Thank you so much for posting this info! I have known Shawn Bolz is a fake prophet for years! I did not have the receipts until recently! Bless you for your boldness to speak truth! Keep it coming please!! 👍🙏😟
thank yoU!
In all this our hope is in the revelation of Jesus Christ. Do not be dismayed sisters and brothers! Rejoice the Lord is faithful and He is moved by the faith of people, not by the words of flawed ministers. God is restoring. He is redeeming! Stay in Him and fix your eyes on Jesus. He turns everything around for the good of those who love Him.
I’m confused. I’ve heard Bolz referred to as the “Google prophet” for years. So, why is this suddenly a big scandal? Did something new happen!
It’s not that part, it’s the flagrant lack of accountability from Bethel and the entire NAR network that we now know all knew and didn’t tell anyone
@@faith_reframed
Spot on.
I am sick to my stomach. I think the KV texts were undeniable. I believed Shawn and have partnered with his ministry, bought his books, and joined his online mentoring group. We weren’t sure if the rumors were true, we contacted a pastor who fellowships with these circles. He told us that he has had this reputation of data mining for a while that’s why he doesn’t have Shawn minister at his church. After that my husband threw all his books away.I wish I would have known. I wish KV, would have put out a statement. Just to be certain, we know his words of knowledge are fake, he data mined them. Does this make his stories false as well? Like seeing Corrie Tin Boom show up in his apartment? Seeing Jesus big toe? And seeing Bill Johnson’s dad talking to Bob Jones in Heaven?
Time and Truth walk hand in hand.
Yup
Sure hope there's a way to bring this out in the open in a way th❤at doesn't throw the baby out with the bath water. These gifts are certainly biblical, but maybe all along there should have been more emphasis on God's righteousness in the midst of preaching on intimacy with the Father, which seems to have bred too much familiarity with the Father of Lights without any self examination. The lack of integrity amongst what we all took to be Godly men, is extremely disturbing. Thank you for bringing this out. ❤
So sad, yet it’s Gods word coming true! Amen!
sad indeed
God uses prophesy and prophets to give insight ABOUT HIM. About Jesus. Full stop. This other stuff is just self serving “future/fortune telling”. That’s never been the purpose or point of prophesy. Spend time in the Word and study it. It will be easier to avoid this kind of nonsense.
“Full stop” - Agabus prophesied about a coming famine. Never mentioned anything about Jesus, yet the Scriptures call him a prophet - “full stop”
God never let me go to bethel, and im so grateful❤ He knew what he was doing. Im grateful to Him
praise the lord
I recall a convention in Minneapolis when Shawn was acknowledged as a young prophet.
I remember Shawn said he was playing a video game and the Lord appeared to him. He ignored Jesus and continued to play his video game. ???
😂
Your sound is too low. You have a soft voice.
Sleeping children
He also has a Joaquin Phoenix resemblance.
@@Philosophaster my thoughts exactly re resemblance, & voice is too low.
lol do people just not watch the video? I literally said in the beginning “my voice is low it’s 2:00 am my children are sleeping”
The mike needed to be closer or something, even with the volume all the way up i struggled to hear
Thanks for Being Clear.
Always!
I appreciate everything you’re saying. It’s magic in the church. Lost or saved, people fall for magic. But I really think you are giving these clowns too much credit. This is an exhortation to the church to READ THE WORD!!! The truth will set you FREE. You MUST KNOW THE TRUTH SO YOU’RE WISE TO THE LIES!!! Please church, STUDY THE WORD!