If Admrial Crutchley had returned to the formation after his meeting with Admiral Turner, would HMAS Australia's presence as another heavy crusier, and Admiral Crutchley being in command over Captain Bode change the result?
In a previous Drydock question you mentioned that by WW2 submarines were too fast to draw benifit from a Kort’s nozzle, but what about submarines from before WW2? could USS Nautilis and early gas-electric submarines have benefited from such a device?
Compared to the U505, what were the main differences that you noticed easily. Is one larger/less cramped than the other? Final question, which one would you rather serve on?
As the son of a crewman on the last 3 patrols on Silversides, thank you for the fantastic video. My dad was a gunners mate, his gun was the 40mm on the cigarette deck. During the 70’s when the boat was being restored, he frequently communicated with the woman in charge of the program. A couple fun facts about the restoration, Stewart Warner restored all the gauges they made, that’s why they look so nice, as well as Fairbanks Morse who built the engines, helped the crew in repairing as Least 2 engines which are started frequently as well as the backup dinky engine, it can run as well. The holes along the hull that let the water out are called limber holes on fleet boats, and the board with the red and green lights showing hatch position is called the Christmas tree. This is the board that in some movies you will hear the phrase “green board, pressure in the boat” before diving. I can truly say my dad would have loved this video, Silversides was the start of a navy career in submarines that lasted until USS Scamp SSN 588, a fast attack boat. And then I came along!
Thought those were Fairbanks. The same engines are in USS Becuna, alongside the Olympia. IIRC, under those covers are one of two crankshafts, the cylinders are between two opposed pistons, in the middle of the engine.
Muskegon actually has 3 other ships you can tour. The Silversides museum includes a Coast Guard cutter. Elsewhere in the bay is an old passenger liner, and a WW2 tank beach landing ship. The city is a great place for boat history enthusiasts.
SS Milwaukee Clipper. Her hull is older than the Titanic. She started off as the Juniata, and had her super structure rebuilt in the 1940's to be all steel, and to complete her transition into "The Clipper". As the Juniata she was a passenger hauling freight ship owned by the railroads. The McKee brothers bought her and turned her into the Clipper as a passenger and car ferry to run primarily between Muskegon and Milwaukee. She ran year round and in the winter season she used her unused passenger space to carry cars from Michigan to Milwaukee. The Milwaukee Clipper would occasionally run excursions to Chicago, and eventually ended up docked in the Chicago river before being relocated to Navy Pier. She was then relocated to Indiana to be used as a casino ship before being saved and brought back home to Muskegon. She's an interesting ship with a tangled web of history. Thank goodness she's still floating with a loving family of volunteers doing their best to take care of her.
The silversides museum now has an option for an extensive guided tour for smaller groups where as well as seeing all these spaces, they let you up and down the ladders to see the lower utility rooms and the conning tower, as well as up onto the sail. I was in the first group to have done this tour, and therefore might have gotten to climb around a bit more than future tours, and I highly recommend doing the guided tour did you can.
I believe the ship I used to crew was due to join silversides. YP587 a yard patrol boat built in 1942 (I forget now). On the way there it sank and was a total loss. DRACH………I was in the Sea Cadets not in the navy but my ship needs some information and some coverage. I was told Jimmy Carter trained on her at Annapolis. My captain is still alive and he was very knowledgeable as a captain.
I was part of a boy scout troop about 25 years ago that would spend the night on the submarine every fall. We had a troop leader that was an extremely bad snorer. Given the tight confines, he kept the whole troop up with his racket. After the first time we spent the night on the sub with him, he was kindly asked not to go in the following years.
When I was a Cub Scout around 10-11 yrs old my troop took a trip to Muskegon and got a tour of Silversides, after which we got to spend the night on board, sleeping where the real crew slept during her service. My friends and I managed to secure an officers bedroom with real cots while the less resourceful scouts had to make do with the regular crew space and the much less comfortable hanging cots. Love to see her once again, great video Drach.
One of my aunts worked at the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company (in Wisconsin on the western shore of Lake Michigan) where they built 14 Gato class and 14 Balao class submarines during WWII.
They went on to build LCS's but I don't think they like talking about that as much. Still cool to know there's shipbuilding going on in the Great Lakes.
Drach, if you haven't done so already, watch the Silent Service TV series episodes that are freely available on YT. The USS Silversides episode deals specifically with the death of Mike Harbin, the sailor mentioned on that deck plaque. The shows are all true stories and several have stars like Leonard Nimoy, Deforest Kelly, and others, when they were in their early careers.
Thanks for the nice coverage of the Silversides. I live in the area and keep an annual membership, so I visit frequently. (This is surprisingly cheap, for veterans like myself, only $25 US per year). The museum building is quite good, with artifacts and exhibits covering more than just submarines, and the museum presents frequent lectures on a variety of maritime subject, which are included in the price of admission. For example, this Thursday at 1100 local (EDT) there is a lecture on special forces during Vietnam. There is another ship that is part of this museum, which is the Coast Guard Cutter McLane, which will turn 100 in 2027. This ship also saw service in WWII. This last Thursday the diesels were started, which is done periodically. And, since the submarine lies alongside the channel connecting Lake Muskegon to Lake Michigan (one of the Great Lakes), you can occasionally get lucky and find yourself in the submarine while a large freighter enters or exits the port. This is the closest you will ever get to the experience of a submariner listening to a ship passing overhead. Another piece of trivia is that Silversides was one of only a handful of subs to be mentioned by name in the post WWII documentary series Victory At Sea. Lastly, your first pronunciation of Muskegon (with the long E) was correct, but I am fairly certain Captain Burlingame is pronounced with a hard G. I'm sorry I didn't know about your visit at the time, as it would have been a pleasure to have met you. Love your channel.
One of the interesting comparisons is that U-505 was laid down in June 1940 and USS Silversides was laid down in November 1940. Compare the two boats in size and arrangement. They were built for different mission specifics that reflect the theatres in which they operated. All in all, I would rather have been on the Silversides than the U505 - it is much more well-appointed in terms of crew comfort. I got to do some volunteer work on Silversides back when she was at Navy Pier in Chicago in 1979 whilst I was stationed at Great Lakes; basically becoming the first boat on which I worked. Fun time.
My grandfather tell his death the Navy required him to go into the reserve fleet to acquire parts for the newer subs and Install them. Apparently there was technology on the older subs they had lost for a time and required from the older ones. I do know my grandfather was a EMT that got transferred to an electrical specialist who cept mash units running on the front line in karea in the war. He then ran a machine shop but worked a lot at mare island for the US Navy. He was an amazing intelligent man and I am lucky to have him as my grandfather.
There is a dedicated group of people that keep this ship looking great and as far as I know totally operational. Been on this well over s hundred times but never disappointed.
Outstanding! I was on the Silversides the week before this video came out! Since we had a larger tour group, we had less time to examine the features of the sub. Silversides is parked less than half a mile from Pere Marquette beach, which makes for an excellent tour stop on the massive inland sea that is Lake Michigan. That day, we also saw a B-25 and a DC-3 fly over for a local air show. It was a military history buff’s good day!
I played Silent Hunter 4 SO MUCH. I’ve read plenty of books about submarining. And I’ve watched SO many Drach videos about the submarine campaigns of WW2. I know about the Mark 14, deck guns, the targeting data computer, and so on. And today I learned there was a space UNDER the deck of a Gato. Thank you Drach!
Great video. Thank you. I was blessed to visit the siversides in 1979. It was at the time open for tour at navy pier in Chicago il. Then was moved in rhe next year or 2. As you showed the u 505 previuosly at the museum svience and industry. It was interesting to see how much advanced was the us boat. Best regards
I remember reading about the appendectomy as a kid, and then reading it out to my 4th-grade English class as a presentation. Freakin' cool, I couldn't remember the name of the boat but there you go. Thank you!
Burlingame: US = Burling game, your pronunciation was correct for the rest of the world. I worked with Ed, who was a cousin of Creed. Ed was a rancher here in the Walla Walla valley. The family was very proud of its military tradition. As such, one of the things in Eds house was a little diorama of a Gato Class with a Fletcher class, and the silhouette of an Iowa class "Sailing together". Ed had busted out with some paint and brushes back in the day and named the sub silversides and robbed a little man figurine from another model and put it up on the bridge, often saying "There's mah cousin..."
The Scout troop I was the Scoutmaster of stayed on the Silversides twice. Once in Chicago before it moved to Muskegon. And a few years later we took the trip from northeast Illinois to her current home. Both were overnight programs well run and completely enjoyed by the boys. This was in the mid 1980’s and early 1990’s. Good times.
Hope you enjoyed your stay in Michigan! I know you're a naval guy but I really hope you had time to stop by the Kalamazoo Air Zoo and take a look at the FM2 Wildcat restoration while you were in the area. That's a must-see for any naval aviation enthusiast.
Stayed the night aboard her as a boy scout when i was a kid. Watched sub movies like U-571 and Enemy Below, Group split up to bunk down for the night and I had the whole aft torpedo room to myself. I think my love for all things Naval History started then.
Im not sure if this is the idea behind this deck gun placement, but in "Thunder Below," Eugene Fluckey wants a deck gun put behind the sail of USS Barb. This is so that the submarine can engage destroyers chasing it on the surface while running in a straight line away from them.
spent many nights on the silversides. also spent time on the coast guard cutter next to her. that one was much roomier. a fantastic museum and a great experience overall. oh, and can't forget: she's a movie star!
I worked on Silversides, periodically, back in the 90s. My naval reserve center in Grand Rapids would send some of us out as volunteer working parties . This was back when they were still in the process of dismantling the reserves and hadn't hit peak destruction.
Trivia bit that I didn't see anyone else mention. The troubles with the Mark 14 inspired a 1951 John Wayne movie "Operation Pacific". When Wayne's sub makes it back to Hawaii from patrol, some of the crewmen manage to be picked up by the SP. When Wayne goes to the brig to bail them out, the SP officer starts complaining about all the trouble he has with sub crewmen. He says "if it isn't Thunderfish (the fictional sub in the movie), it's the Tang, or the Wahoo, or the Silversides". So the Silversides got a mention in a Hollywood movie. The sets in "Operation Pacific" look exactly like the inside of Silversides. I wonder if the studio bought a surplus Gato and cut it up to build the sets? Most sub movies show the periscope viewing station in the control room. "Operation Pacific" shows the scope station in the conning tower, as it is on Silversides. Can't help but wonder if all subs of that era had the scope station in the conning tower, and putting it in the control room is "artistic license" so the captain actor can interact with the control room crew actors? The first time I visited Silversides, I didn't know there was a museum at the location. Didn't budget enough time to explore both in detail. So, on a later trip, when I visited the Milwaukee Clipper, I then drove around the bay to the Silversides, and gave the museum a more detailed exploration.
You got the pronunciation of Muskegon correct in the introduction! I live in Michigan and our pronunciations can be a bit tricky for even non-midwesterners in the US.
@@FreiherrDinkelacker all very familiar names to me! My family is from the western UP. At least Silversides isn’t in Lake Orion, that’d have been an even more confusing pronunciation, it is even confusing for me being a Northern Michigan native.
Thank you for the tour, Uncle Drach! When I was a kid, one of the summers around '80-'82 some friends and I went to Navy Pier to look at her. There were no tours back then and the area around where she was tied up was barricaded off but we wheedled our way in to take a gander anyway. I never got over to that part of Michigan before I moved to California, so thank you for taking me along. 😁
40 some years ago, I spent the night on the Silversides, when it was berthed in Chicago. I was in a father/son program, at the time, and this was our yearly outing. I was stuck in a top bunk that was so restricted that it took me close to a minute to turn over, because of a large pipe that ran the length of my bunk. Back then, we had the run of the ship. I was able to show the kids how to elevate and train the 40mm multipurpose gun, to put rounds into Marina Towers, a 65-story apartment complex. I don't believe that they would allow that now.
My Boy Scout troop spent the night on the USS Silversides back in the early 2000's. I'll never forget our Troop Master snoring echoing throughout the sub while we slept at night. I'm glad you enjoyed Michigan!
Read about Silversides in the book "The War Below." Great book about Silversides, Drum, and Tang. The Tang story was horrifying. One of the few subs to sink and have some of the crew successfully escape, only to experience more horror as POWs.
@@michaelsommers2356 I think what Bob intended to say was that USS Tang was one of the few sunk that still had crew escape from her, to survive while everyone else was lost.
Drach - you DID get to take the Lake Michigan sub tour after all. Well done! You were in my general neighborhood. By the way, in Michigan, they call the town "Muss-KEY-gun". Those places named by Native Americans are generally difficult to pronounce in English, and there are lots of them.
Woo, just visited this this summer! Absolutely worth a visit, nice little museum - even if you're just taking the ferry across the lake, fit in an hour or so to visit.
Thanks for posting your visit! I grew up in Muskegon, and I've had the opportunity to visit USS Silversides several times since she came to Muskegon in the 1980s. As you said, the museum is also wonderful and has more about the local history as well as more about the sub. She is moored in the channel between Muskegon Lake and Lake Michigan, and the adjacent park is also a nice place to visit. :-) The breakwater is a nice piece of engineering and walking it out to the lighthouse is a family tradition. Great memories and I hope your visit to my hometown was pleasant! I live in Huntsville, AL now, or I would have been there to meet you! 🙂
My S.O. and I camped at the wonderful state park in Muskegon and did the tour, that's why we were there. We sea kayaked around the outside after, great museum great place.
You had the pronunciation of “Muskegon” right the first time. Got to love the Midwest names! I’ve lived in the area all my life and got to spend the night on the Silversides in the dead of winter as a Boy Scout. Edit: I think my bunk row was at 35:47 can confirm that the triple stack wasn’t very comfortable (even for a small 11 year old)
Drach, if I knew you were going to be in West Michigan I would've recommended going to my former place of employment, the Kalamazoo Airzoo! We have restored Wildcats raised from the bottom of Lake Michigan, crashed during training off the USS Wolverine and USS Sable from your previous videos. It would've been a great place to record some content! Also, like many Cub Scouts in Michigan in the early 1990s, I was fortunate enough to spend a night on the Silversides. Since my dad organized the trip and was our Den Leader, him and I were lucky enough to sleep in the captains quarters. It's something an 8 year old boy who loves all things "Navy" never forgets!
Thanks. When My Dad was stationed in New Hampshire, I went on one of these when I was about 8 years old. It looked pretty much like this. It was some kind of a Navy Day or something where they were letting civilians tour the ships. My Mom was not happy about having to climb down the ladder to get in the sub - in a dress. The crew was right there. They were friendly and somewhat amused by us. They had the sail of one sub as a memorial at one of the local sub bases. We saw the _Thresher_ Launched and I knew a kid whose father was aboard as a technician when it sank. There were a lot of the people who lived in that area employed by the ship yard and the Navy. That loss hit them hard. I wasn't living there any more but one of my friends sent me a letter. One thing about that area in the 1950's was that WWII had only been over for about a dozen years and everyone there remembered it very well. When the movie _Sink the Bismarck_ came out that was something that had been very real at the time too. It wasn't going to happen - but people who lived there were speculating on the _Bismarck_ taking on our Coastal Artillery Batteries. People who live in areas like that - where they can look out their front door and see the Atlantic Ocean - have imaginations about what actually could happen - even if it wasn't ever going to. I mean - the US wasn't even in the War then but people will imagine all kinds of things. After all - this is something the Germans could have physically done - even if they weren't going to. There was a "disappearing" Costal Artillery Battery near our house - and this tower from the war of 1812. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Portsmouth_nh_martello.jpg That was our house in this picture. It was about 200 yards from the river on one side and another couple of hundred yards from the Atlantic on the other. You can imagine what people living there during WWII felt about German Submarines. It was really something for an 8 year old boy. Ships went up and out the Portsmouth River all the time - and we'd see WWII Attack Transports with all the little LCVP's training off the coast. Big and small Coast Guard Cutters. There was a light house off the coast that painted our house every night. Fog horns. The North East United States isn't drenched in History the way certain parts of Europe are - but - compared to most of the rest of the US - there's a lot of it. Just past our house was a Coast Guard Base that had been a British Base before the Revolutionary War. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_William_and_Mary We used to go into that gun battery position and play. The guns were gone and no one was there - but my Father warned us about going into any rooms where we couldn't see - because there were Ammunition Hoists in the Fortifications from the Magazines down below. My parents were not happy about us playing around old fortifications like that but - kids do all kinds of things they aren't supposed to. I climbed the Water Tower at Camp Pendleton when I was six years old ... .
I toured her, accompanied by my great uncle, who was an SM2 on a sub all the way through till the end of the war. I could see him pause occasionally as we passed through areas and remember different experiences from his service.
@michaelsommers2356 WWII subs were surfaced much more than they were submerged they are basically ships that can submerge when needed for limited duration.
When I was in Boy Scouts, we were able to spend the night aboard the USS Cobia, which was a submarine of the same class and another museum ship across the lake in Wisconsin. It’s also possible to spend the night aboard USS Silversides
I went on a nice tour of the Lakes a couple years ago. I took the SS Badger across the Lake, it’s the last coal powered passenger ship here, and there’s another submarine museum at its Wisconsin stop in Manitowoc featuring USS Cobia. Quite a few of the submarines were built in Wisconsin and when I was there they were still building the Freedom class Littoral Ships
I was thinking of a passenger ship tour of the Great Lakes. I think there is a stop at Muskegon. Will visit Olde Silversides, the other museum ships and the museum, for sure!
FYI, along with the sub, museum, and giftshop, there is also Muskegon State Park there in the background. If you want a day full of fun, this place has it.
I read the book about the Silversides and remember the immense frustration the first captain; Burlingame, had with torpedoes that failed to work properly. The book opens with a crewman tying his binoculars to the railing so he wouldn't drop them overboard, and when the order is given to dive he struggles to untie them almost going under. Silversides had a real problem trying to sink Japanese patrol boats and barges with gun fire and the captain thought the 4in gun was too feeble for the purpose. In general the adventures of Silversides were fairly typical for an American submarine and her crew were happy with their captains and conditions on board; while crowded were adequate and better than earlier subs.
Man am I perturbed about finding out about your channel early this year, and missing an opportunity to meet you in my home city! Glad you got to see Silversides, she's the pride of the town to be sure
On the other side of Michigan in Bay City is the USS Edson DD-946 a Forrest Sherman class all gun destroyer. it is in great shape and the volunteers do a great job of maintaining her.
If I'm gonna be home sick, Drach is a good thing to watch. One of my 2 favorite RUclipss but, the other is watching a guy with Border Collies work so, varied tastes.
I am reminded of seeing the USS Batfish in Muskogee, OK. The Batfish is, of course, a Balao class submarine and so slightly more modern than the Silversides. But all in all a very similar boat. Sadly, the Batfish was damaged by a local flood and has not yet reopened for viewing inside.
Re: BBC; Thanks, Drach, your tour of the boat is delightful as usual. A little note on the steering elements of the U-Boat you show. The label BBC indicates the makers of the controls, Brown, Boveri & Cie (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown,_Boveri_%26_Cie). You may have given this info in the video on the German sub, but I didn't see it, so just in case ... Cheers!
Having recently visited USS Cobia (SS 245) it’s cool seeing both just how similar they are and also the small differences. And it’s neat to see how each is presented. Also, for anyone interested Cobia is a BnB and can be booked through airbnb, like on the museum website.
I’ve stayed the night twice on that ship with my Boy Scout troop. We’d go in the middle of the summer and reserve a weeknight rather than a weekend and had the whole ship to ourselves.
Would love to see you out here in Hawaii Drach! The mighty USS Bowfin beckons (as well as that floating target they call "Mighty 'Mo" or something). As a former submariner, id love to see you come visit the island! Cheers!
Pinned post for Q&A :)
If Admrial Crutchley had returned to the formation after his meeting with Admiral Turner, would HMAS Australia's presence as another heavy crusier, and Admiral Crutchley being in command over Captain Bode change the result?
In a previous Drydock question you mentioned that by WW2 submarines were too fast to draw benifit from a Kort’s nozzle, but what about submarines from before WW2? could USS Nautilis and early gas-electric submarines have benefited from such a device?
Compared to the U505, what were the main differences that you noticed easily. Is one larger/less cramped than the other? Final question, which one would you rather serve on?
Would Oldendorf's battleships stand up against Center Force at the Battle of Leyte?
4th time posting
Did the IJN have a sonar system and how did it compare to the US and Royal Navy sonars?
As the son of a crewman on the last 3 patrols on Silversides, thank you for the fantastic video. My dad was a gunners mate, his gun was the 40mm on the cigarette deck. During the 70’s when the boat was being restored, he frequently communicated with the woman in charge of the program. A couple fun facts about the restoration, Stewart Warner restored all the gauges they made, that’s why they look so nice, as well as Fairbanks Morse who built the engines, helped the crew in repairing as Least 2 engines which are started frequently as well as the backup dinky engine, it can run as well. The holes along the hull that let the water out are called limber holes on fleet boats, and the board with the red and green lights showing hatch position is called the Christmas tree. This is the board that in some movies you will hear the phrase “green board, pressure in the boat” before diving.
I can truly say my dad would have loved this video, Silversides was the start of a navy career in submarines that lasted until USS Scamp SSN 588, a fast attack boat. And then I came along!
@@markwatson3135 this is a significant historical contribution.
Thought those were Fairbanks. The same engines are in USS Becuna, alongside the Olympia. IIRC, under those covers are one of two crankshafts, the cylinders are between two opposed pistons, in the middle of the engine.
SW was the gold standard in those days. Do we have anything like that left?
My dad was a meteorologist on an escort carrier. Savo Island was scrapped but he had some stories, too. Keep their memories alive.
Muskegon actually has 3 other ships you can tour. The Silversides museum includes a Coast Guard cutter. Elsewhere in the bay is an old passenger liner, and a WW2 tank beach landing ship. The city is a great place for boat history enthusiasts.
SS Milwaukee Clipper. Her hull is older than the Titanic. She started off as the Juniata, and had her super structure rebuilt in the 1940's to be all steel, and to complete her transition into "The Clipper".
As the Juniata she was a passenger hauling freight ship owned by the railroads. The McKee brothers bought her and turned her into the Clipper as a passenger and car ferry to run primarily between Muskegon and Milwaukee. She ran year round and in the winter season she used her unused passenger space to carry cars from Michigan to Milwaukee.
The Milwaukee Clipper would occasionally run excursions to Chicago, and eventually ended up docked in the Chicago river before being relocated to Navy Pier. She was then relocated to Indiana to be used as a casino ship before being saved and brought back home to Muskegon.
She's an interesting ship with a tangled web of history. Thank goodness she's still floating with a loving family of volunteers doing their best to take care of her.
Oh, you Great lakes guys always have penis envy....lol.
I think the fact that we have absolutely no interest in ice fishing drives you nuts! LOL.
0:53 spot on as if you grew up in the Great Lakes region 😎.
My ear said the same. My grandfather, a Michiganian, would have approved.
My hometown! Got it in one!
The first captain's photo is great.
I thought Drach was going to launch into a plug for fish sticks.
Trust the Morton Fisherman!
The silversides museum now has an option for an extensive guided tour for smaller groups where as well as seeing all these spaces, they let you up and down the ladders to see the lower utility rooms and the conning tower, as well as up onto the sail. I was in the first group to have done this tour, and therefore might have gotten to climb around a bit more than future tours, and I highly recommend doing the guided tour did you can.
I believe the ship I used to crew was due to join silversides. YP587 a yard patrol boat built in 1942 (I forget now). On the way there it sank and was a total loss. DRACH………I was in the Sea Cadets not in the navy but my ship needs some information and some coverage. I was told Jimmy Carter trained on her at Annapolis. My captain is still alive and he was very knowledgeable as a captain.
I was part of a boy scout troop about 25 years ago that would spend the night on the submarine every fall. We had a troop leader that was an extremely bad snorer. Given the tight confines, he kept the whole troop up with his racket.
After the first time we spent the night on the sub with him, he was kindly asked not to go in the following years.
I did a similar thing when I was in 3rd grade.
Same but it was Cadets. Really fun getting to run around that as a kid! An excellent museum ship for sure!
Cub scouts here, and it was about 5 years after you that I visited
was he gay
We took scouts there last year.
When I was a Cub Scout around 10-11 yrs old my troop took a trip to Muskegon and got a tour of Silversides, after which we got to spend the night on board, sleeping where the real crew slept during her service. My friends and I managed to secure an officers bedroom with real cots while the less resourceful scouts had to make do with the regular crew space and the much less comfortable hanging cots. Love to see her once again, great video Drach.
One of my aunts worked at the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company (in Wisconsin on the western shore of Lake Michigan) where they built 14 Gato class and 14 Balao class submarines during WWII.
They went on to build LCS's but I don't think they like talking about that as much. Still cool to know there's shipbuilding going on in the Great Lakes.
@@dvpierce248 the Manitowoc yard is now a crane building yard. Wisco shipbuilding is now done at Sturgeon Bay and Marinette mainly
Drach, if you haven't done so already, watch the Silent Service TV series episodes that are freely available on YT. The USS Silversides episode deals specifically with the death of Mike Harbin, the sailor mentioned on that deck plaque. The shows are all true stories and several have stars like Leonard Nimoy, Deforest Kelly, and others, when they were in their early careers.
Thanks for the nice coverage of the Silversides. I live in the area and keep an annual membership, so I visit frequently. (This is surprisingly cheap, for veterans like myself, only $25 US per year).
The museum building is quite good, with artifacts and exhibits covering more than just submarines, and the museum presents frequent lectures on a variety of maritime subject, which are included in the price of admission. For example, this Thursday at 1100 local (EDT) there is a lecture on special forces during Vietnam.
There is another ship that is part of this museum, which is the Coast Guard Cutter McLane, which will turn 100 in 2027. This ship also saw service in WWII.
This last Thursday the diesels were started, which is done periodically.
And, since the submarine lies alongside the channel connecting Lake Muskegon to Lake Michigan (one of the Great Lakes), you can occasionally get lucky and find yourself in the submarine while a large freighter enters or exits the port. This is the closest you will ever get to the experience of a submariner listening to a ship passing overhead.
Another piece of trivia is that Silversides was one of only a handful of subs to be mentioned by name in the post WWII documentary series Victory At Sea.
Lastly, your first pronunciation of Muskegon (with the long E) was correct, but I am fairly certain Captain Burlingame is pronounced with a hard G.
I'm sorry I didn't know about your visit at the time, as it would have been a pleasure to have met you. Love your channel.
One of the interesting comparisons is that U-505 was laid down in June 1940 and USS Silversides was laid down in November 1940. Compare the two boats in size and arrangement. They were built for different mission specifics that reflect the theatres in which they operated. All in all, I would rather have been on the Silversides than the U505 - it is much more well-appointed in terms of crew comfort.
I got to do some volunteer work on Silversides back when she was at Navy Pier in Chicago in 1979 whilst I was stationed at Great Lakes; basically becoming the first boat on which I worked. Fun time.
The pacific is a BIG ocean.
If Germans didn't value toughness, they'd have nothing...lol.
You pronounce Muskegon correctly and I have seen the USS Silversides many times what a great treasure to have in West Michigan.
"mus-Kee-gun"
@@MacFinn-wp2vn Yes I know how to say it I've lived in West Michigan all my life. It was pronounced correctly the first time when the video started.
I've seen those round hatches on the sails and never knew what they were for! Ready use lockers! Thanks for teaching me something new this morning!
Yay finally the Silversides, I always loved seeing her while going through the channel as a kid. I love her and the LST, both are amazing ships.
Muskegon here representing!!! Spent the night in this boat before. How cool.
My grandfather tell his death the Navy required him to go into the reserve fleet to acquire parts for the newer subs and Install them. Apparently there was technology on the older subs they had lost for a time and required from the older ones. I do know my grandfather was a EMT that got transferred to an electrical specialist who cept mash units running on the front line in karea in the war. He then ran a machine shop but worked a lot at mare island for the US Navy. He was an amazing intelligent man and I am lucky to have him as my grandfather.
he was an EM (electricians mate), there's no T.
@@leftyo9589 yes you are right
Welcome to Michigan. A lot of us Michiganders have toured the Silversides. We are very lucky having her here. Thank you for doing this video.
Excellent tour, thank you! I learned things I did not learn by actually touring a US Navy WWII fleet boat in person.
There is a dedicated group of people that keep this ship looking great and as far as I know totally operational. Been on this well over s hundred times but never disappointed.
Outstanding! I was on the Silversides the week before this video came out! Since we had a larger tour group, we had less time to examine the features of the sub. Silversides is parked less than half a mile from Pere Marquette beach, which makes for an excellent tour stop on the massive inland sea that is Lake Michigan. That day, we also saw a B-25 and a DC-3 fly over for a local air show. It was a military history buff’s good day!
I played Silent Hunter 4 SO MUCH. I’ve read plenty of books about submarining. And I’ve watched SO many Drach videos about the submarine campaigns of WW2. I know about the Mark 14, deck guns, the targeting data computer, and so on. And today I learned there was a space UNDER the deck of a Gato. Thank you Drach!
Great video. Thank you. I was blessed to visit the siversides in 1979. It was at the time open for tour at navy pier in Chicago il. Then was moved in rhe next year or 2. As you showed the u 505 previuosly at the museum svience and industry. It was interesting to see how much advanced was the us boat. Best regards
I remember reading about the appendectomy as a kid, and then reading it out to my 4th-grade English class as a presentation. Freakin' cool, I couldn't remember the name of the boat but there you go. Thank you!
Burlingame: US = Burling game, your pronunciation was correct for the rest of the world.
I worked with Ed, who was a cousin of Creed. Ed was a rancher here in the Walla Walla valley. The family was very proud of its military tradition. As such, one of the things in Eds house was a little diorama of a Gato Class with a Fletcher class, and the silhouette of an Iowa class "Sailing together". Ed had busted out with some paint and brushes back in the day and named the sub silversides and robbed a little man figurine from another model and put it up on the bridge, often saying "There's mah cousin..."
The Scout troop I was the Scoutmaster of stayed on the Silversides twice. Once in Chicago before it moved to Muskegon. And a few years later we took the trip from northeast Illinois to her current home. Both were overnight programs well run and completely enjoyed by the boys. This was in the mid 1980’s and early 1990’s. Good times.
Hope you enjoyed your stay in Michigan! I know you're a naval guy but I really hope you had time to stop by the Kalamazoo Air Zoo and take a look at the FM2 Wildcat restoration while you were in the area. That's a must-see for any naval aviation enthusiast.
Another one here who spent the night on board while I was in Cub Scouts. It was a ton of fun!
Stayed the night aboard her as a boy scout when i was a kid. Watched sub movies like U-571 and Enemy Below, Group split up to bunk down for the night and I had the whole aft torpedo room to myself. I think my love for all things Naval History started then.
Im not sure if this is the idea behind this deck gun placement, but in "Thunder Below," Eugene Fluckey wants a deck gun put behind the sail of USS Barb. This is so that the submarine can engage destroyers chasing it on the surface while running in a straight line away from them.
A Japanese destroyer will have a deck gun that can reach farther and hit harder than a 3 or even 4 inch on a fleet boat.
spent many nights on the silversides. also spent time on the coast guard cutter next to her. that one was much roomier. a fantastic museum and a great experience overall. oh, and can't forget: she's a movie star!
I worked on Silversides, periodically, back in the 90s. My naval reserve center in Grand Rapids would send some of us out as volunteer working parties . This was back when they were still in the process of dismantling the reserves and hadn't hit peak destruction.
Trivia bit that I didn't see anyone else mention. The troubles with the Mark 14 inspired a 1951 John Wayne movie "Operation Pacific". When Wayne's sub makes it back to Hawaii from patrol, some of the crewmen manage to be picked up by the SP. When Wayne goes to the brig to bail them out, the SP officer starts complaining about all the trouble he has with sub crewmen. He says "if it isn't Thunderfish (the fictional sub in the movie), it's the Tang, or the Wahoo, or the Silversides". So the Silversides got a mention in a Hollywood movie.
The sets in "Operation Pacific" look exactly like the inside of Silversides. I wonder if the studio bought a surplus Gato and cut it up to build the sets? Most sub movies show the periscope viewing station in the control room. "Operation Pacific" shows the scope station in the conning tower, as it is on Silversides. Can't help but wonder if all subs of that era had the scope station in the conning tower, and putting it in the control room is "artistic license" so the captain actor can interact with the control room crew actors?
The first time I visited Silversides, I didn't know there was a museum at the location. Didn't budget enough time to explore both in detail. So, on a later trip, when I visited the Milwaukee Clipper, I then drove around the bay to the Silversides, and gave the museum a more detailed exploration.
she was the main star in the movie "Below".
You got the pronunciation of Muskegon correct in the introduction! I live in Michigan and our pronunciations can be a bit tricky for even non-midwesterners in the US.
@@FreiherrDinkelacker all very familiar names to me! My family is from the western UP. At least Silversides isn’t in Lake Orion, that’d have been an even more confusing pronunciation, it is even confusing for me being a Northern Michigan native.
And let us not forget Sault Ste. Marie....
@@Theodore-zd2mv or Traverse City, definitely not pronounced like the Chevrolet model…
Thank you for the tour, Uncle Drach!
When I was a kid, one of the summers around '80-'82 some friends and I went to Navy Pier to look at her. There were no tours back then and the area around where she was tied up was barricaded off but we wheedled our way in to take a gander anyway.
I never got over to that part of Michigan before I moved to California, so thank you for taking me along. 😁
40 some years ago, I spent the night on the Silversides, when it was berthed in Chicago. I was in a father/son program, at the time, and this was our yearly outing. I was stuck in a top bunk that was so restricted that it took me close to a minute to turn over, because of a large pipe that ran the length of my bunk. Back then, we had the run of the ship. I was able to show the kids how to elevate and train the 40mm multipurpose gun, to put rounds into Marina Towers, a 65-story apartment complex. I don't believe that they would allow that now.
Thank you for covering my local WW II museum ship! I have been there dozens of times, I wish I could have met you in person there.
You mean one of two WWll ships
My Boy Scout troop spent the night on the USS Silversides back in the early 2000's. I'll never forget our Troop Master snoring echoing throughout the sub while we slept at night. I'm glad you enjoyed Michigan!
Super video Drach, I toured Silversides this summer. The museum is excellent as well. So glad you enjoyed your visit to West Michigan.
Read about Silversides in the book "The War Below." Great book about Silversides, Drum, and Tang. The Tang story was horrifying. One of the few subs to sink and have some of the crew successfully escape, only to experience more horror as POWs.
Few subs to sink? The US lost fifty-two submarines in the war, about a fifth of those we had. That's hardly a "few".
@@michaelsommers2356 I think what Bob intended to say was that USS Tang was one of the few sunk that still had crew escape from her, to survive while everyone else was lost.
@@michaelsommers2356 there's a 'but' in that sentence. I guess it should be an 'and' though. Sorry for the confusion. I've edited it to clarify.
Always wanted to see inbetween the pressure and outer hull on a submarine. Many thanks from Northern Wisconsin
Drach - you DID get to take the Lake Michigan sub tour after all. Well done! You were in my general neighborhood. By the way, in Michigan, they call the town "Muss-KEY-gun". Those places named by Native Americans are generally difficult to pronounce in English, and there are lots of them.
Nice job Drach, as always!
19:10 They had to chain the valves to stop visitors hands from messing things up.
Fascinating tour, Drach. Thanks. 👍
Woo, just visited this this summer! Absolutely worth a visit, nice little museum - even if you're just taking the ferry across the lake, fit in an hour or so to visit.
Thanks for posting your visit! I grew up in Muskegon, and I've had the opportunity to visit USS Silversides several times since she came to Muskegon in the 1980s. As you said, the museum is also wonderful and has more about the local history as well as more about the sub. She is moored in the channel between Muskegon Lake and Lake Michigan, and the adjacent park is also a nice place to visit. :-) The breakwater is a nice piece of engineering and walking it out to the lighthouse is a family tradition. Great memories and I hope your visit to my hometown was pleasant! I live in Huntsville, AL now, or I would have been there to meet you! 🙂
My S.O. and I camped at the wonderful state park in Muskegon and did the tour, that's why we were there. We sea kayaked around the outside after, great museum great place.
Muskegon State Park, or PJ Hoffmaster State Park?
My family and I had the honor of visiting the USS Silversides. I highly recommend it.
You had the pronunciation of “Muskegon” right the first time. Got to love the Midwest names!
I’ve lived in the area all my life and got to spend the night on the Silversides in the dead of winter as a Boy Scout.
Edit: I think my bunk row was at 35:47 can confirm that the triple stack wasn’t very comfortable (even for a small 11 year old)
Drach, if I knew you were going to be in West Michigan I would've recommended going to my former place of employment, the Kalamazoo Airzoo! We have restored Wildcats raised from the bottom of Lake Michigan, crashed during training off the USS Wolverine and USS Sable from your previous videos.
It would've been a great place to record some content!
Also, like many Cub Scouts in Michigan in the early 1990s, I was fortunate enough to spend a night on the Silversides. Since my dad organized the trip and was our Den Leader, him and I were lucky enough to sleep in the captains quarters. It's something an 8 year old boy who loves all things "Navy" never forgets!
Lived in Muskegon for 3 years. Silversides was an every summer destination.
Thanks.
When My Dad was stationed in New Hampshire, I went on one of these when I was about 8 years old. It looked pretty much like this.
It was some kind of a Navy Day or something where they were letting civilians tour the ships. My Mom was not happy about having to climb down the ladder to get in the sub - in a dress. The crew was right there. They were friendly and somewhat amused by us.
They had the sail of one sub as a memorial at one of the local sub bases.
We saw the _Thresher_ Launched and I knew a kid whose father was aboard as a technician when it sank. There were a lot of the people who lived in that area employed by the ship yard and the Navy. That loss hit them hard. I wasn't living there any more but one of my friends sent me a letter.
One thing about that area in the 1950's was that WWII had only been over for about a dozen years and everyone there remembered it very well.
When the movie _Sink the Bismarck_ came out that was something that had been very real at the time too.
It wasn't going to happen - but people who lived there were speculating on the _Bismarck_ taking on our Coastal Artillery Batteries. People who live in areas like that - where they can look out their front door and see the Atlantic Ocean - have imaginations about what actually could happen - even if it wasn't ever going to. I mean - the US wasn't even in the War then but people will imagine all kinds of things. After all - this is something the Germans could have physically done - even if they weren't going to.
There was a "disappearing" Costal Artillery Battery near our house - and this tower from the war of 1812.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Portsmouth_nh_martello.jpg
That was our house in this picture. It was about 200 yards from the river on one side and another couple of hundred yards from the Atlantic on the other. You can imagine what people living there during WWII felt about German Submarines.
It was really something for an 8 year old boy. Ships went up and out the Portsmouth River all the time - and we'd see WWII Attack Transports with all the little LCVP's training off the coast. Big and small Coast Guard Cutters.
There was a light house off the coast that painted our house every night. Fog horns.
The North East United States isn't drenched in History the way certain parts of Europe are - but - compared to most of the rest of the US - there's a lot of it.
Just past our house was a Coast Guard Base that had been a British Base before the Revolutionary War.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_William_and_Mary
We used to go into that gun battery position and play. The guns were gone and no one was there - but my Father warned us about going into any rooms where we couldn't see - because there were Ammunition Hoists in the Fortifications from the Magazines down below. My parents were not happy about us playing around old fortifications like that but - kids do all kinds of things they aren't supposed to. I climbed the Water Tower at Camp Pendleton when I was six years old ...
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I laughed out loud at the "dustpan and brush" comment re: kiloamps. This is a great virtual tour!
It was awesome being able to meet you at the Silversides!
I toured her, accompanied by my great uncle, who was an SM2 on a sub all the way through till the end of the war. I could see him pause occasionally as we passed through areas and remember different experiences from his service.
Why does a submarine have skivvy wavers on board? Not much to do underwater.
@michaelsommers2356 WWII subs were surfaced much more than they were submerged they are basically ships that can submerge when needed for limited duration.
Submarines seem so cool. One of my older brothers was an electrical technician on boomers back in the 80s. He loved it. I'd probably go crazy. Lol
When I was in Boy Scouts, we were able to spend the night aboard the USS Cobia, which was a submarine of the same class and another museum ship across the lake in Wisconsin. It’s also possible to spend the night aboard USS Silversides
I went on a nice tour of the Lakes a couple years ago. I took the SS Badger across the Lake, it’s the last coal powered passenger ship here, and there’s another submarine museum at its Wisconsin stop in Manitowoc featuring USS Cobia. Quite a few of the submarines were built in Wisconsin and when I was there they were still building the Freedom class Littoral Ships
I got to be there once when they ran the diesels, loved it.
Very nice walk through and description. Thank you.
I went aboard her at Navy Pier in Chicago. It was during the 1980 Chicagofest before she was moved.
I was thinking of a passenger ship tour of the Great Lakes. I think there is a stop at Muskegon. Will visit Olde Silversides, the other museum ships and the museum, for sure!
FYI, along with the sub, museum, and giftshop, there is also Muskegon State Park there in the background. If you want a day full of fun, this place has it.
I read the book about the Silversides and remember the immense frustration the first captain; Burlingame, had with torpedoes that failed to work properly. The book opens with a crewman tying his binoculars to the railing so he wouldn't drop them overboard, and when the order is given to dive he struggles to untie them almost going under. Silversides had a real problem trying to sink Japanese patrol boats and barges with gun fire and the captain thought the 4in gun was too feeble for the purpose. In general the adventures of Silversides were fairly typical for an American submarine and her crew were happy with their captains and conditions on board; while crowded were adequate and better than earlier subs.
Great video. US Fleet boats were so very steampunk! 29:10 Euphemistically known as the 'Christmas Tree'.
I was here when they started up the engines this year!
Finally talking about a ship I've seen in irl.
Really love the museum ship/boat visits. Top video, of a fascinating vessel. Thanks, Drach!
i visited this museum 2 years ago it was great. I like the hedgehog launcher they have here. First time I had seen one in person
Man am I perturbed about finding out about your channel early this year, and missing an opportunity to meet you in my home city! Glad you got to see Silversides, she's the pride of the town to be sure
Thanks for the video. It looks like a nice stop on a road-trip museum tour. If I only was able to take one. Best regards.
I live in Muskegon!! Been waiting! I had no idea you were here! 😮😢 Yes said absolutely correctly! 🖤👊🏼🤘🏼✌🏼
On the other side of Michigan in Bay City is the USS Edson DD-946 a Forrest Sherman class all gun destroyer. it is in great shape and the volunteers do a great job of maintaining her.
Mid Michigan Laser Combat sometimes has events on the Edson. The ship is beautiful.
Hey you were ten minutes from my house and you didnt call for a hang out! Haha glad to see you enjoying my neck of the woods! Keep up the great work!
My scout troop has overnighted on silversides in February- very cold in Michigan in mid winter…
You had me at USS Silversides.
I visited her, along with the LST-393.
She's a beautiful ship, been through her a couple times since I was kid.
Woah, I never realized there was _that much_ space between the pressure hull and outer casing. :O
When my life isn't quite so crazy, I want to catch the ferry to Muskegon to see Silversides.
I've waited for this video for so long! It's finally here!
Thanks, Drach for a great tour.
My old friend Joe did work on her. He helped the preservation society give her a little more time!
Great video, lots of detail. I’m about a 15 minute drive from USS COD so it’s nice to see another Gato.
If I'm gonna be home sick, Drach is a good thing to watch. One of my 2 favorite RUclipss but, the other is watching a guy with Border Collies work so, varied tastes.
@MillerFourFingers Get well soon fellow Drachinifel fan.
I'd never get to go there and I've read all about this submarine so this video was amazing to me, thank you so much!
Thank you so much for your work in naval history.
I am reminded of seeing the USS Batfish in Muskogee, OK. The Batfish is, of course, a Balao class submarine and so slightly more modern than the Silversides. But all in all a very similar boat. Sadly, the Batfish was damaged by a local flood and has not yet reopened for viewing inside.
I heard the story of the appendectomy from the pharmacist's mate on another video recorded many years ago.. Quite the story.the way tells it.
Re: BBC; Thanks, Drach, your tour of the boat is delightful as usual. A little note on the steering elements of the U-Boat you show. The label BBC indicates the makers of the controls, Brown, Boveri & Cie (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown,_Boveri_%26_Cie). You may have given this info in the video on the German sub, but I didn't see it, so just in case ...
Cheers!
Having recently visited USS Cobia (SS 245) it’s cool seeing both just how similar they are and also the small differences. And it’s neat to see how each is presented.
Also, for anyone interested Cobia is a BnB and can be booked through airbnb, like on the museum website.
I’ve stayed the night twice on that ship with my Boy Scout troop. We’d go in the middle of the summer and reserve a weeknight rather than a weekend and had the whole ship to ourselves.
absolutely amazing video.
Thanks for the tour!
I've have just visited the cod yesterday, thanks for the narrative very similar
I grew up only an hour drive from that boat! Parents took me to see it a lot. And you pronounced Muskegon perfectly
Ok, never new a sub had an outer casing and seperate pressure hull. Learned something new today.
Would love to see you out here in Hawaii Drach! The mighty USS Bowfin beckons (as well as that floating target they call "Mighty 'Mo" or something). As a former submariner, id love to see you come visit the island! Cheers!
Thanks Drach