The True Story Of The Lost Hunters Of Santa Fe (Stanley Vigil & Mel Nadel)
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
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This video covers the disappearances of two hunters in the area of Santa Fe - Mel Nadel & Stanley Vigil. These two cases have received a lot of exposure due to the movie Missing 411 - The Hunted and viewers have requested I cover cases highlighted in that movie. This video will hopefully provide new insights into both of these cases.
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I got lost once in a national forrest. I went off the trail and by luck managed to find my way out to the roadway still disoriented as to where i was. I flagged down a car with a young man, woman and kid inside. I asked him to call the police so they could help me. The guy refused. His excuse was that he didn't wanna deal with the police... Wtf? Guy and his family were basically willing to leave.me out there no Fs given. I then tried to flag down another man in a pickup who completely ignored me. Wouldn't even look my way. Nobody would help me. Luckily I found my way back alone but could of EASILY ended up a missing person and for good. So, am I surprised nobody was willing to help Stanley Vigil? Absolutely not.
Surely it's far too risky to help someone? Too many horror stories to be picking random people up lol 😂
@drips1030 They could have driven away and called the police then, totally safe
That's HORRIBLE! I'll bet if you were a woman that wouldn't have happened but I can't BELIEVE that BO one would help you out in the wild. I would be SO ashamed if my boys (both grown men now) avoided helping anyone. Just remember, what goes around comes around.
Damn that’s hardcore. Can’t imagine not helping someone who asked for help. Where was this , Compton ? Detroit?
@@bloodyneptune Yes, absolutely!
Yeah it’s official. I’m done with missing 411. You’re videos make way more sense and have a lot more rational detail.
Are you ignoring the fact that the dude in this video literally admitted that the second case could be a genuine 411 case?
@@Nikp117 No, we're tired of being lied to by Paulides. Fool me once...
If you want to keep believing his nonsense, then keep watching him.
@@JoeMac1983 That’s stupid. There’s legitimate credibility to some of the cases he presents. That cant be ignored, regardless of how you feel about the guy. Something strange is happening in the National Parks, whether it’s supernatural or not, I dont know. But at the very least, individuals are being targeted and hunted by someone or something, and are either being killed right away or being taken somewhere, held for some time, and then disposed of.
@@JoeMac1983 Well then I think we’re of the same opinion, I wasn’t trying to defend the guy, I was trying to defend the phenomenon
Something weird is happening out there. Paulides started bringing attention to this phenomena and happened to make a lot of money doing it. He omits certain details that make some cases more mysterious than they are be because A) more cases make bigger books, B) he misses those details accidentally, C) he's trying to fit these gray cases into his profile. Or a combination. One or two things has happened. He got greedy, he got lazy or he got too excited to be through.
One other thing I will say is that dave is quick to warn us to not listen to other channels or people that talk about the missing people. They are often not doing enough research or just ripping him off. I used to take that advice but I’m starting to notice that isn’t alwsy true. This is by far the most fact filled channel when it comes to the missing that I have ever heard of so far. You do a fantastic job. Thank you
Yes, I have noticed the same thing. If you offer a valid reason for a different conclusion, you are now a troll.
This made me lose respect for him because shouldn't you be happy that others are helping to bring these missing cases to light for the victims' families, because of you? I guess he really cares about fame
Missing 411 is fun and interesting but Dave's got an agenda and purposefully excludes pertinent info to make things more mysterious or push the story in a certain direction. That's why he says that
Anyone who tells you they have all the answers and the only viable source of information is trying to sell you something. I enjoy the missing 411 theory as a whole, but sort of in the way that I enjoy basically all paranormal theories. They are fun what-ifs but 90% of "cases" hold very little actual truth.
@@ragingmoderate6791 very well said
I sure wasn’t expecting Val Kilmer to be a part of these stories. That was weird…
Yeah, and what an asshole for kicking the search team off his land. Maybe he killed the dude.
@@texansoul78 Keep in mind that these people asked for help from a psychic and ended up on the property of someone who had nothing to do with them and possibly didn't even know about the man's disappearance. Even one member of the search party said it was meaningless and disorganised.
@@SauloA333 True.
Very weird!
@@SauloA333 Many psycics have got it right though and in spectacular fashion being able to describe small details off certain things like surroundings and events that are completly impossible to know like saying "the body is in an area next to a large tree laying on its side next to a river and near by is a purple coat hanging over a fence"...and loan behold they find that exact scene
I am seriously confused as to why Stanley didn’t just ask the woman he encountered to call the police. Especially if he were being pursued or believed he was being pursued. That woman’s telling of the story is also very very strange.
Stanley encounter something out there that made him suspicious of anyone he came in contact with. Simply, his pursuers were doing things he couldn't understand, like how they knew his every where abouts. If a grown man with a louded pistol is hiding,
It's some very strange shit a foot. And the crazy part about that is a hunter desperately fled a huge wooded area to hid at a gas station? he was waiting for either (what he assumed was) the authority or just any one whom didn't appear to be apart of what and whom was chasing him. Sad, but he didn't go easy.
He was truly one of us.
They Live...
(Gangstalking 101)
@VV Lowe After reading the comment, it may be hard to define "strange", other than simply, well, strange - at least in my opinion. While it could be something out of the ordinary (Sasquatch), it could simply be, like he stated, that the men were constantly able to locate him, or something these men did in the forest, or something Mr. Vigil came across in the forest (i.e. drug deal), that made Me. Vigil flee the area and seek help in town. I do wonder why the homeowner did not call the police, especially as she believed there was a "missing child" in the area While it may be an innocent thought that the situation resolved itself and did not think the missing case was connected to the man at her door (he had or hurt the "missing child", or that there was, for some reason, no way the child could encounter this man, it is still a bit strange. I hope there was a follow-up interview with the resident. If there was known illegal activity in the area, she may have been afraid she could have faced repercussions if the police were called, or perhaps she simply did not trust the local police for some reason, even if just her mindset and not connected to this case.. Without additional information though, these are all just random thoughts and truly not meant to make anyone think more than what is known. They are just there to stress the importance of the needed additional information.
@@suscon1140 The people up near Santa Fe are the type of people to live on the same spot for generations and have every other member of the family in and out of prison. They don't trust a stranger coming up to them like that because he's probably tweaking, and the cartel is all around that whole area of the state just like in Breaking Bad. The resident is a good example of the mindset and level of intelligence they have there, with her Burqueno accent and inability to remember important details. They're just simple village people, and Vigil to me obviously came across cartel activity which happens all throughout the wilderness, and they chased him down and tied up lose ends. Happens all the time and people just accept it as a part of life.
@@timothyhyena3106 "They live" & "Gangstalking 101" You may want to get some professional help/medication.
Cuz that chick is clearly lieing. Why? Who knows. But she is not telling the truth
Guy runs after a deer? With only a pistol? Not buying it. Something fishy about the two other men’s story.
I believe they had been drinking, so drunken logic applies!
@@MrsGypsumFantastic Could be. Still if I were the Po Po, it would definitely raise my eyebrows. Who is to say that the men chasing and beating him are not the same men who reported him missing? The whole thing just does not add up. Too fantastical and coincidental.
The narrator said (the two) had been drinking all day.
Most Missing 411 cases people act strange and many say they are being chased by someone/something. In one case girl called police and said that people were talking under her window and they broke into her appartment, later the roomate could be heard if everything is OK with her. She disappeared,days after body was found near river. About "Voluntary" there was a case a guy in a camera crew just started running down a steep hill and was never found. Something gets into their heads but it is easy to brush it off as mentally unstable person's actions, without any previous signs of the same.
Thats a fair point. In a lot of these stories where someone just bolts or is suddenly gone, there's a tendency to simply take the other party member's account at face value.
Just because you are hunter doesn’t mean you are a survivalist or know first aid
True I have a friend who is a hunter but I wouldn’t leave him in the Bush on his own not even for five minutes don’t get me wrong nice guy but just no idea.
Too many of these missing person videos give too much credit to hunters survival knowledge.
"He'd lived his whole life in those mountains, and knew them well"
Don't you love that one. One year of experience repeated 10x is not 10 years of experience
@@fritzfxx yes agree. I mean I live in some mountains and know them well. Very well I’ll add I’ve never left a sealed road unless it was a dirt road to a car park and I’ve never camped. So living somewhere doesn’t give you magic. And I certainly wouldn’t know what to do at night with no tent or supplies.
Hell from some of the folks I've witnessed be allowed to own a gun some done even know what to use their boom stick 😂
Another excellent job Nick! You are setting new standards that fellow creators, including myself need to start following when investigating these cases. So much of what we know about these cases has been misrepresented. Thank you for inspiring me to be a better content creator. Look forward to our collaboration soon!
-Bill & Steve
Love ya content, bro.
@@HighTreason007 thank you!
"So much of what we know about these cases has been misrepresented. "
Makes you wonder if this misrepresentation is intentional or is it just from careless half-a$$ed research by someone who just wants to churn out product for quick cash?
That little part about the group getting kicked off val kilmers land by val kilmer himself made me lol
So we know bigfoots true identity
I wonder if it was FAT out of shape, Kilmer ?
@@adambeecroft9305 😂😂😂👍👍 good one!! 😂
Imagine people searching for a missing person on your land... not your house just your “land”. You would have to be a massive piece of shit to go out there and personally stop them from looking. Maybe he did it or is involved.
@@DJBioBain my first thought was “what an asshole”
Crazy how Dave mysterious did not mention that the group was drinking, or shared snippets of police report that reveal way more than he portrayed in his movie.
He's lost a lot of credibility for me. he pulls this shit a lot. not including information to present the cases a certain way.
I agree. And surely he’d know to check police reports with him being a former LE. I think he’s onto some unexplainable weird stuff that happens with a lot of missing people and I think he has a theory as to what’s happening to them. Until he starts to talk about his theory and just come out with it, he’s starting to lose people’s interest into the cases he researches. Especially when there’s important info left out. Maybe he couldn’t get access to the info at the time? But that should be part of the story. He talks about not getting reports from nation forest service….🤷♀️ I’ve read some of his books, watched the movies. No pun intended but there’s stuff missing there. Seems like he finds cases that meet his criteria and just uses that info. It happens to a lot of researchers. They get tunnel vision when they stick to one theory and can’t see outside of that. I think he’s a good dude and his heart is in the right place but I wish he’d start talking about what his actual theory is. Sasquatch? Aliens? Other dimensions? All the above?.
@@PNWCagey-Dub I agree. Maybe he's jst sad his son was pure coward? Bt I'm not sure. He says to think independently and question everything, yet he certainly does not. Only if it fits his narrative. Pure hypocrisy , bt he does seem like a nice guy. What worries me is that if Ben didn't want to stick around, what else has Dave done?
Ben had a mental disorder and wasnt even living with David at the time.
Real men are always drinking. It goes without mentioning they where drinking
One thing that’s possibly overlooked sometimes is how many of these guys were kind of nuts for many years prior to their disappearance. Prone to irrational or paranoid episodes, for example.
Good point but not in all cases. Mental health can't produce real evidence like the men firing guns with Vigil OR actual evidence which points to truth in what the disappeared said.
It's irrational to stick to ONLY one solution when you don't have the full picture.
Sometimes the real truth of what happens IS the most nuts thing of all.
Yhea, the fact that in most of these cases the family members pay psychics and stick to their claims shows they usually come from very supersticious families
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that the aLIENS AREN'T OUT TO GET YOU
Or just keep bad company. I think a majority of the Missing 411 cases in which a hunter goes missing while with a partner/group involve foul play
Yeah this story makes lil sense. #1 you don't run down a deer you won't get one that way. #2 you don't hunt with a 9mm it can't hardly kill a deer.
I live in ABQ New Mexico, as a Fly Fisherman I travel 70 or so miles to fish the Pecos.
Due to encounters of partying or prowling Gang Members I carry a 9mm pistol with 2 extra mags as well as a K-Bar combat knife well displayed.
Santa Fe is not far away and sportsman are targets due to free time and wealth in equipment.
I only day fish the Pecos area...camping can be un-nerving when they cruise through.
Yeah.. I could just imagine that being in that area. I'm a truck driver and was in the town that the cartel hung those five up on the overpass with their heads chopped off. The town of Jarez or Warez or ever how you spell it.
Not a good place to be at the wrong time anyway. They could careless about another human beings life.
I used to wonder who raises these people but sometimes I think they raise themselves. I just don't get it. Probably because I'm 61 years old. Even today and my daddy has been dead over 20 years I still cannot imagine doing something that would make him ashamed of me. He never even raised his voice to us growing up but if he gave us that look that said he was ashamed of us we would have rather he hit us. God I miss him.
@@jbos5107 you are truly blessed to have had a father that would leave you with memories of him so fond.
Your assessment was probably correct or either worse.
I didn't have a good father, but my mother made sure that we always respected others and never mistreated animals.
I appreciate you sharing this info. When I 1st heard "gang activity", I was thinking it sounded like fiction. After your 1st person experience, I'm sincerely enlightened. Thanks!!
Wow! Very enlightening. I know that area as I lived in Sirios along time ago. Had no idea the gang delinquent problems were so bad. Thanks for sharing this info. Appreciate.
This channel is great. Most clear and interesting thing I have seen in a long time. Produced in an entirely efficient and helpful way, never having a dull moment. Underrated
Unfortunately, I have found as others in the comments that missing 411 does not including all the facts. Great job on both stories. Thank you for the videos.
You're right.. I was such a David Paulidas fan but then I started noticing things... Things that just weren't adding up... I discovered him to be quite the fraud as far as missing 411 goes.. :-(
I strongly suggest you give the missing 411 another chance. He is a man of facts, this guy may be making the detail up. Research the story for yourself. I've not seen where he's lied about anything yet.
Indeed, Paulides loves omitting and hyperbolising facts of the case. That's not to say some cases arent perplexing, some though he deliberately misreports on. All to further boost the overinflated prices of his books, that he strangely has problems getting distributed outside of his own website.
@@brian_2040 maybe open your eyes then. If you watched the tv series he tried launching, or movie he had made the holes were obvious to see.
He's a cop that needs money there also very good liars!
I wish more people who covered these missing 411 cases would bring up these details if they're available. It often feels like most people just read the books, watch the movies or read a forum post on some paranormal board and don't bother doing any research of their own.
Paranormal exists though so still worth keeping on the table after logic has been exhausted
@Michael A sure, odd and unsolved.... but... Paulides left out major clues, and didn't even try to cover all of the facts.
The Missing 411 movie was trash. It had neither the tone or feel of the books. The books where good but the movie seems to be made by someone that didn't even read a single page. The movie is ultimately muddying the waters and doing a discredit to the books.
@Michael A - This is just another case stacked on top of a bunch of others that reveals Paulides is either incompetent in his research, or he is a liar. And the omission of facts to suggest a repeating narrative that is completely manufactured is totally deceptive. I think it is becoming more and more clear that Paulides took liberties with the truth in order to suggest the fantastical, which is what he needed in order to maximize sales on his books, channel, and his movie. That's my conclusion.
Yes... Nick has inspired me to be a better creator. Its nice to see a creator who helps change the game.
You do a FANTASTIC job of giving the public ALL of the facts. You once again have provided us with enough details to see that the "Missing 411" concept more often than not is not a supernatural phenomenon like Dave Paulides leads us to believe. Great work man.
Missing 411 is unfortunate to me because I don't believe that Dave is being intentionally misleading. I just think he doesn't invest the time necessary to really pick apart the cases he investigates, and it's hard to blame him when there are so many missing persons cases. It's too much for one person to provide adequate and thorough research in a timely manner. It's good that it brings attention to these unsolved cases, but I wonder if it does more harm than good in the long run.
Got a valid point mate I always think does David Paulides realise that the astonishing Urban disappearances are far greater there’s always an answer.
@@0The_Farlander0 I like the guy and id like to believe that but I just dont see how that can be Connor because its literally his job to gather details as a former police investigator he literally says this constantly and even personally gets these police reports directly in many instances, so I mean that pretty much means he has to be intentionally leaving out certain details because he's not a stupid man at all ya know. Some of the cases are for sure very strange and unexplainable though he just unfortunately also seems to insert cases where he also leaves out relevant valid details to is all mixed in ya know.
@@0The_Farlander0 sorry but Paulidies is a con artist. He leaves out information all the time.
@@bricehenry1223 Big Time!
Mel's disappearance is really puzzling. Safe to say, don't bring someone prone to getting lost and panicking on a hunting trip.
This guy really gives you MUCH more information then Missing 411 . I hope he does them all
Two different channels. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
@@cbtx8615 Ome guy just making it about missing not fucken politics and self pity . Copyrighted edition ? Get bent
@@privatehudson4432 Your behavior isn't normal. Not surprising.
@@privatehudson4432 Right? Paulides is the biggest cry baby i have ever seen. He gives enough info to make the cases mysterious but leaves out all the information that would lead to a logical conclusion
@@jalenwarner7632 Beyond a cry baby
My dude, you are easily the best channel I've ever found that addresses cases like this. The amount of research and detail gives me what I want from the medium. I feel like a lot of channels videos are essentially "This person went missing, this is where they were found". You really get into the nitty gritty and it's deeply appreciated 👍
Stanley appears to be showing signs of sleep deprivation while under effects of a strong stimulant, such as methamphetamine.
1. He ran off
2. He appears Wired and fidgety over 24 hours later.
3. Tells people things that are not true. i.e the truck was not stuck and it was not in the woods. was it even his truck?
If you are interested in the crazy things people do whilst seriously sleep deprived and under effects of meth then check out the very sad case of Janelle Hornickel and Micheal Wamsley.
Brandon Lawson did something similar to this and Just like Val Kilmer, the locals wouldn't let them search their land.
Meth heads do it all the time but it is very dangerous for mental health to smoke meth on a Monday night if you have been on the shit since Friday morning.
I seriously appreciate you bringing a bit more reality into this "phenomenon".
Again, always appreciated how well you cover these cases. It's awful the way Paulides leaves out so many details to make things sound more mysterious and paranormal than they are so he can profit. These are real people and the details could help prevent it from happening, again.
Yeah, from the start the Missing 411 project seems nothing like the way it wants to appear.
"More and more people are disappearing in national parks under mysterious circumstances..."
I'm pretty sure if you tell a half truth you make anything "mysterious", and people are disappearing in national parks because it's probably a vast area and it ain't called a wilderness for nothing.
I'm not saying every case doesn't have something unexplained going on but for the most part there's no conspiracy or mystery involved. If someone disappears in Yosemite and someone else at Yellowstone on the same day there's no clan of Bigfoots putting a master plan into effect. More than likely they just went off the main trail and got lost in the expanse that is the wilderness of the forest.
It is a shame he's purposely leaving out data that can tell a bigger picture just for a buck.
There is real strange stuff happening, though. Granted, there are humans involved in the disappearances, however, how are people being found up in trees or in the higher,more remote parts of mountains-aside boulders? There are things that do not want (us humans), in their space. One type of Elder God creature abducts people to convert them to his followers. All that area is highly mysterious.
@@kennethkeith3335 LOL Bots? Paulides leaving out facts isn't a bot. Even in this video he explains how he omitted facts about this case, clearly to paint a picture of mystery he benefits from. You can do research yourself on many of Paulides 'mysterious' cases, when you get the real facts they aren't that mysterious at all.
There's nothing wrong with being fascinated with mysterious happenings, I am as well. But it is wrong to mislead people for profit when real families are involved in these tragedies.
@@kennethkeith3335 No one said that he's a fraud or shouldn't have credibility, it's a little disturbing how much you're exaggerating to go to bat for your boy. All I said was he does leave out facts (which is very real, like it or not) and it's obvious it's done at times to make his stories sound more mysterious than they are. Ya need to calm down and breathe a little. He does find cases that are buried, he does teach people safety. That doesn't mean he can't be criticized for also leaving many facts out of cases at times. Things aren't always black and white, go outside and breathe a little. But not into the forest.
Thanks for providing detail and accuracy to these cases. I appreciate the clarity and research you provide, taking these cases out of the realm of "411 cases" and into reality. Mel Nadel's loss was felt for quite a long time within the community.
I wouldn't have let the guy use the phone but I would have alerted the cops for him. People just don't care at all.
I'm kinda surprised she didn't call the cops, even for herself. An unknown man with a gun, acting strange, coming by her house at night seems like a legit reason to call the cops. Especially since he claimed he was being chased. Which could mean even more armed men roaming near by.
She definitely is partially at fault
She sounded like a drug addict tbh...
@Matt Savage you ok bro? You seem a little worked up for some reason. It's not that serious. 😂
yea, never hand a suspicious stranger your phone, it's your only contact with the police. Unless you're absolutely sure you can get it back by force if necessary, and if that's the case you won't need the cops anyway.
Let me get this straight.........................Val Kilmer comes across a group of people on his isolated land somewhere, finds out that they are a group of people looking for a missing man and he then kicks them off the property!?!? Nice Val
yeah seriously, wtf.
Hey Batman has his reasons alright..Back off !!!..🦇🦇
I've heard Val K. can be quite the asshole. Stories from the Dr. Moreau remake were damning
There was a snippet of a line in the text that disputes this. It didn't show the whole paragraph, but there's obviously a bit more to that
@@jackalope2302 - Take a look at Val Kilmer's current photos, post throat cancer and surgery. I'm sure he has been humbled a bit now that he looks disfigured and nothing like his former self.
You do a fantastic job on these, great to see another one!
My friend dad is Melvin nadel he was the nicest person I ever met breaks my heart how we never had closure for my friends family
I think Stanley's story might hinge on when he suffered that head injury. Depending on the type and timing, his subsequent odd (even erratic) behavior could be explained by a severe concussion or brain bleed.
Say if, soon after his friends don't hear from him for a while, he takes a bad fall. He breaks some ribs and hits his head. Maybe loses consciousness, maybe not. Either way, he's just lucid enough to wander towards town, stumbling on the woman's house late at night. Denied there, he ends up at the convienence store where he emerges from the shadows with a gun and scares a group of men off. Perhaps he mistakes them for this group supposedly following him, a figment of his injured brain, trying to fill the holes?
After these 'known' encounters, he re-enters the wild and drowns trying to cross the river.
Otherwise, it might just be foul play.
Stanley was running from the people he was with. Common sense tells any one that’s hunted, you don’t chase after a deer or elk, you stalk them…..you damn sure don’t do
It without your rifle…….no, he was running from them, and the shots they fired, weren’t to help him find his way back, it was fired at him…….I’ve used the fire two
Shots method and it works well……No, Stanley was being hunted by the guys he was with, guess dad wanted him dead too.
That sounds interesting, and very plausible. I wonder if an autopsy was done?
Could be. It’s possible. I believe there are feral killers in the vast sparse wilderness, not living in houses or anything noticeable but caves or natural formations so nothing stands out and gives them away. There’s an awful lot of similarities in a lot if not most of these missing persons cases. And, to me, a lot of things align with being attacked by intelligent beings. They often take the shoes, which to me would be harder to craft than a pelt blanket so if you lived out in the wild, why wouldn’t you take shoes when you could? Weapons are often ALWAYS missing, but cash is not, which they wouldn’t really have a need for. They also almost never target groups larger than 2, it’s mostly one individual, which makes sense for an ambush killer. Also I mean, hell, he said it himself that there were men chasing him. But I dunno, my theory is just that: a theory.
Edit: I think he got clubbed and that was the head trauma. I also think these feral folk are responsible for calls and strange noises heard in the woods. You know, those sounds that definitely aren’t an animal but are SOMETHING. But, again, for the final time, I dunno lol... I do truly believe this tho.
@@Kroggnagch This case doesn't fit that, given IF he was followed, His attackers followed him to a gas station, it's more likely it was some cartel he could of owed money to
Glad to hear you again. And hell yeah, the guy with the dog is back!
That search dog has become a fan favorite. He's going nowhere.
He's a workaholic !
I like how you get more of the indepth stuff the oaulides stories leave out..... I think it is very relevant
Once again your videos are essential viewing. Thanks so much for the in depth details and analysis. And I never expected a random Val Kilmer appearance!
They are really
He is a great vid maker
You definitely should produce a book countering Missing 411. DP does a disservice to all the surviving family members of the cases he writes about.
Venturing into the woods doesn’t seem as frightening as it use to be. Thx for the credible backstories to some of these cases!
Very impressed with videos like this that go more into depth on missing people than Missing 411. I loved Missing 411 the Hunted and other Dave Paulides videos on Canam Missing Project, but if there’s more information about missing people, it’s nice to see such in depth videos about it. This is why The Missing Enigma is one of my favorite RUclips channels.👍
I've been waiting for you to do this video. Some other channels have sensationalized these stories so much that I can't watch them. Thank you.
Thanks for shedding more light on these stories, pal.
Sounds to me that Vigil ran across some bad people in the woods. And the reason he didn't try to go home or contact police is because those bad people probably were police. It was an off duty cop who found him.
My first thought was drug dealers/growers and the gun shots his friends fired off probably didn't help
Zero reason to believe this is the case but wild conjecture sure is fun, eh!?!?
Seems like he definitely came across some bad characters in the mountains.
@@planexshifter Zero reason to believe it's NOT the case, either, so, um, stuff it?
@@peppersaltsman6044 most likely scenario. Plenty of cases of growers hiding their "farms" on state land and even private wooded property.
As someone who dabbles with many different drugs, from my perspective it seems they were probably doing more that just "drinking beer". Most likely magic mushrooms, lsd, meth or mdma were involved. After getting lost he probably lost all bearing and hearing the gunshots probably thought someone was after him. People really underestimate the power of some drugs, you can lose all memory of where or who you are under the influence.
Yep. Altered reality. They're dangerous stuff. Reality is what stops us being insane. In these cases, the first guy hit his head, the 2nd guy had mental problems and got lost taking a shit.
Id like to point out in the Stanley Vigil case that it makes no sense for him to depart from his group, exiting the vehicle to "chase" a deer on foot. Also, it was stated that he left his rifle in the vehicle. What realistic expectations could he have had in his pursuit if this animal?
Well he’s been drinking all day, so his thought process is seriously void of clarity. I see it as one of those, “hey, hold my beer and watch this” moments.
@@skyking4501 no. The “he chased a deer with his pistol and left his rifle behind” is a total cover story for what they were actually up there for. Actual hunters don’t run after deer at all, let alone without their hunting weapon. The guys Stanley was with were unable to say why they really were out there because they were there for something illegal.
You do great detailed videos that are well researched and flushed out. I love them!
It upsets me for many reasons people get drunk or high and hunt or hike. It can already get confusing enough in the woods without adding chemicals in the mix.
let your hair down, live a little
Do you drive drunk or high?
He wasn’t hunting. That’s a cover story.
Loving the use additional sources in this one, so seamlessly put together too. Great work, thank you muchly 🖤
Admiration to our favourite canine and handler goes without saying 😉
Sounds like Stanley either run into some freaking hillbillies, or just was in the wrong time in the wrong place, maybe he saw something he shouldn't like a meth lab or maybe those ppl were caught killing someone/disposing of a body? 🤔
Witnessed a drug deal. Killed by some Anton Chigurh like hitman.
Rural people are weird. They're either up to something or just very protective of their land and paranoid. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened.
Latin hillbillies!
"Jumped out and started chasing the deer down" SMH that's not at all how you hunt...
Something seems quite sketchy about that case.
I know of other missing people cases where land owners, not famous, who have denied access to their land for searches. Just because the man is famous and (from what I am reading) he has a bad attitude, does not mean he loses his rights that a regular person has.
So excited for a new episode!! Excellent video, as usual!
Yess, finally a new video from you. I love watching/listening to your videos in the background while i do stuff.
So missing 411 cut out the whole part about Stanley knocking on that woman's door and being spotted at the shell?! Those are such crucial facts, and I'm starting to get the feeling that M411 purposely leaves out facts just so they can push they can push their "paranormal" theories. And I do believe strongly in the paranormal, if it matters.
Starting to see that as well. Some of the cases are truly bizarre, but a lot of these can actually be explained in some way, or at least made less confusing as The Missing 411 and Missing 411 The Hunted make them out to be. I'm disappointed in this realization because i've been weirdly fascinated in trying to understand what is happening to these people, only to find that most are probably more cut and dry
Exactly
Why does it seem like all these missing hunters go hunting right before the weather turns bad? Does no one look at weather reports first?
Melvin literally has no business being in the woods. If he has a history of getting lost, don't bring him.
I just have to let you know how I appreciate the format of your show and the way you structure the information you impart. I like the other show that discusses these cases. The only drawback is it takes so long to get the information. It’s like talking to someone that goes in circles before getting to the meat of the story. But I do admire you all. Thank you for your professionalism and the care with which you illuminate the interesting circumstances of missing people.
I'm always surprised at how little emphasis is made on signaling for rescue among survivalists. I'd hate to think that a similar mindset exists with hunters. Two rules were broken in the second story.
1) Stay where you are.
And
2) Signal in threes.
Shooting randomly is not a recognizable signal for need of rescue. Running results in moving the goalposts, so to speak.
Huge fans of your channel!
I find it strange that they look very similiar to eachother in these pics. Also, I wonder if the gentleman in the first story knew the area and if so, why he couldnt find a way to call the police? if he was spotted at a gas station, why he didnt try to use their phone? or did he try to ask for help from them and someone isnt saying anything? I get the feeling that there is something nefarious going on in that area and a possible cover up as well. Such sad and frustrating stories!
2nd case (Melvin Nadel) could have walked a short distance to relieve himself and become lost. That has happened to other people
This seems the most likely explanation, given the prior incidents and fact that he hadn't taken his GPS. After becoming lost, he may have fired his revolver in an effort to signal to his friends, explaining the gunshots. His wandering still further while trying to find his way back coupled with the poorly managed search would also explain the lack of a body.
I don't understand that. It could very well be, but even if you walk 20 feet into the forest, you have to realize quickly you are moving in the wrong direction when you never get back to your starting area. If others are there (I assume because the individual walks "farther" into concealment to relieve themselves) why not call out to them? I cannot discount what you are stating of course, but it just leaves questions in my mind....
@@suscon1140 he was alone and couldn’t call out to anyone and also you underestimate how easy it is to get lost in the woods, it’s surprisingly easy, and once you realize you’re lost you could panic and go even further in the wrong direction
@@jbik140 I completely understand that. If it was anything else but just to relieve himself, it would be much easier to accept. It is incredibly easy to get lost, but how far do you need to go to relieve yourself? I also have to assume it was not the intensely forested area - thinking "jungle type" area - otherwise why even try to go into that area to relieve yourself? Again, just going a little way in to relieve yourself, if you do not come out that quickly, I imagine calling out, especially if panic starts to set in, to the others in the group would quickly help.
Now, if while relieving himself, if something grabbed his attention (animal, something interesting or puzzling he saw, etc.), that may have drawn him deeper into the forest, perhaps being quiet as to not scare it, or worse, not giving his location away if it scared him (thinking the Sasquatch possibility, or a bear, bobcat, mountain lion, etc.), then the getting lost quickly theory starts to make more sense to me as he tried to evade whatever it was that frightened him. But I really do find it hard to accept getting lost in the forest just relieving himself.
@@jbik140 Also, if all alone, why go deep in the forest to relieve yourself? No one around, why worry that much about concealment? Others had to be present or very close by.
I always felt that David Paulides sensationalized things a bit. This channel gives much needed context to the missing 411 thing. Every missing 411 story seems to disregard the people involved as suspects when that's the most likely explanation in pretty much every scenario
Instead of 'jumped out and began to chase down the deer..." you mean "jumped out, got a steady rest on the door, and pulled the trigger while the deer stood in the spotlight." No idiot chases a deer. You couldn't keep up in the first 15 feet.
Yeah, I thought that was strangetoo. They HAD been drinking, but still?
The Vigil case -I may be reaching but it sounds like he was up against territorial hunters.Don’t blame the woman for not letting him use her phone-she sounds like a single woman and was rightly concerned for her safety.
As for Mel,I think he just got lost and panicked,but to not find his body is strange to say the least.
Mel was gangs.
She could have called the cops that night. Wouldn't have caused her any problems to die that for another person.
Your videos are EXCELLENT 👍!!!! Breaking down F-A-C-T-S!!!!! is the single most IMPORTANT thing in ANY missing persons case! Thank You. As you do,I also believe your FACTS she'd some real light on the 2 disappearances
This is why I avoid the 411 movies. They either retread the big mysteries or omit critical information. Sometimes both.
Hypothermia take 97 percent of these victims.
I appreciate your hard work that goes into these videos. Your channel helps me get through the work day 👍🏻
Sounds like the first one was being hunted by his “friends” and father
Yes because that makes a lot of sense
or he was having a mental break and thought they were chasing him.
First, I strongly agree there were several important details left out in the Missing 411 The Hunted movie, either because they were unknown at the time or simply discounted by the movie creators, that probably should remove the first case from the Missing 411 Case files. I could easily have missed it in this first case, the Stanley Vigil disappearance, but was there ever a time given between the three men getting out of the truck at the gas station and when they ran back to it? I do find it a little odd that if Mr. Vigil still had his nine millimeter handgun on him that these three men were able to easy approach and assault him. However, If there was a longer time between their arrival and their running back to the truck, they may have known he fired all of his shots and were able more easily commit the crime. Stanley walked away from that scene, apparently, so unless he had a major head injury that caused a lot of confusion, why not try and get help again if really injured. It is also really strange to me that Mr. Vigil did not seem to try any other homes in the area after his first attempt, as you would think a truly frightened person would continue to seek help or get into a really good, really concealed hiding spot and stay there. There are several aspects of the case that are strange and it leaves a lot of questions, even if not "Missing 411" type strange.
I know this area well, to locals this part of Pecos is called the Pecos Triangle. It is beautiful but spooky. Supernatural sightings go back to when native people lived here. Sadly there is another missing person story that you should look into- Emma Tresp has never been found. I believe she went missing in the same area Mel did.
I live in Santa Fe and hunt and fish in Pecos. where is this Pecos triangle never heard of it?
100K subscribers!!! So happy for you man your content is amazing this is honestly my favorite channel on the platform. Much love and blessings and can’t wait to see all your future success!
Miss Gonzalez could at the very least have just had him wait outside while she phoned the police for him. I will never understand other human beings
Ya, she was an obvious D Bag!! You can tell when she is being interviewed that she is totally spun out!! Coulda saved this mans life but chose to act like trailer trash!! Grrrrrrrr
Awesome video with a ton of great info stuff that I had not heard before.So it helps answer some of our questions.Hopefully it can help the missing and there family.
So why didn't they show this in 411: The Hunted? It's such pertinent information to the case, so why wasn't it included?
Paulides is a hack who spin doctors everything. He's not trying to show the truth.
Something weird is happening out there. Paulides started bringing attention to this phenomena and happened to make a lot of money doing it. He omits certain details that make some cases more mysterious than they are be because A) more cases make bigger books, B) he misses those details accidentally, C) he's trying to fit these gray cases into his profile. Or a combination. He got greedy, he got lazy or he got too excited to be through.
@@jackalope2302 Doesn't that fly in the face of what's in his best interest though? If he intentionally misleads people then obviously when that gets out he's going to lose all credibility and as a result lose out on book sales.
I mean, he is a smart guy after all. You'd think he'd play it safe with all the ACTUAL creepy shit that goes on out there but hey I suppose greed can get the better of all of us.
@@VersusArdua it's a common trap for any investigator of the paranormal. Not a lot of money in it. Look Skinwalker Ranch. Used to be a dreaded hot spot of mysterious phenomena. Now site of a bullshit tv show.
@@jackalope2302 I suppose it's the eventual nature of everything we get our hands on as a species. Milked dry until its completely unrecognisable.
Honestly, I didn't even know about the Skinwalker Ranch show but I'm not one bit surprised that it exists and that it's terrible.
I wasn't sure I had heard correctly when 'Val Kilmer' was mentioned throwing the search party off of his land. This occurred before Kilmer was diagnosed with throat cancer, lost most of his ability to speak, and underwent significant surgery that has massively changed his appearance (look him up if you want).
I mention this because maybe today's version of Val Kilmer, post massive life challenges has likely gained new perspectives about what is important in life and hopefully would allow this daughter on his precious dirt to search for her missing dad. What a heartless tool to behave like that back then though.
While I agree, I’m going to try and play devil’s advocate. Kilmer may have not wanted the liability (insurance-wise) if someone were injured or lost their life on his land while searching for another lost person. It’s still not an acceptable excuse to me, but another possible explanation.
He has a reputation for being an a-hole...i hope he gets some perspective and starts treating people better....
Those kinds of folks never change
@@johnqpublic2718 he could of had media coverage and looked like a hero rather than an ahole
I had just turned 18 when this happened. It was a frustrating moment, but I don’t hold that against him. We had been searching all day long, and he came riding up in a truck with a shotgun in his lap telling us to leave.
Here's a far out theory. Stanley said he was chased by three men. Stanley also went hunting with three men. What if he had a schizophrenic episode and thought that his friends were actually bad guys after him?
It's a possibility
That's the most likely possibility excluding cartels
Being drunk, the 3 men probably accidentally shot in his direction, he got scared and taught someone was after him
Not far out at all. Sounds possible to me. We have to remember alcohol was involved here as well.
9:09 so I'm confused by this report. The sister, Darci Vigil, states "DARCI VIGIL, STATED SHE RECIEVED A TEXT FROM STANLEY VIGIL, SAYING HE WAS GETTING BEAT UP AT SAN JOSE ROAD... THE CALL CONNECTED PRIOR TO DARCI PROVIDING ADDITIONAL DETAILS..." yada yada. She then stated "RP JUST REC'D A TEXT ADVISING OF HER BROTHER BEING BEATEN. 1851-CALL LOST-DIDN'T GET A CALL BACK."
So, which is it??? A text or a call?
A lot of details were glossed over in this case. Very sharp observation btw! I was thinking how odd that someone who hangs around that gas station at that hour knew the victim's wife's number. There's connections here that should have been investigated. The ID of that caller or texter could be the key to all this! That person should be interviewed as a possible witness like damn!
These oversights lead me to suspect police involvement. And the police may be acting as security for other nebulous "groups" in the area who do things in the woods that can't be revealed.
@@steamedhamlet His sister not his wife
I noticed that as well, and it is never clarified in the report. 911 Operators do the best they can to listen and write down details when they get a call from someone. My guess would be there was simply some confusion when the operator took down notes.
Based on your last few uploads it's clear to me that you're catching on to Paulides' chronic misrepresenting of these cases for financial exploitation. Appreciate your thorough and factual investigation.
Great job. A knock out punch to Missing 411. Appreciate your research and in depth info. Your objectivity is greatly appreciated. Please keep doing what you do. Lvya
This is not even close to a "knock out punch" to missing 411 at all.
Stanley’s father said that he “was going to chase a deer down”? They must have all been a lot drunker than I’ve ever been. No human being is that damned fast. I find that to be very suspicious. It just isn’t something any hunter would ever say.
John Cox I agree with that statement and have seen deer missing half of one leg and another broken and still no man would even come close to being able to catch up with it .
I'm under the suspicion that they were drunk and probably had gotten pissed off with one another and one of them wound up dead. It's possible that one or more don't even have no memory of what all had taken place. I've noticed that some people who drink often can keep themselves together a lot better than others who drink a lot.
I believe that one of them knows exactly what happened to him and doesn't want to have to bear the consequences of his or the others actions.
All of them should have been given lie detector tests in my opinion.
Yeah... went off to chase a deer definitely sounds suspect to me. I'm sixty years old and have never heard of any one being that high or drunk especially while out hunting with guns to be foolish enough to even say such a thing, much less concoct that idea.
@@chriscoker7794 Gotcha beat. Im 70 🥸🤪. Yeah, i hit a small deer once but didn’t kill it (the truck was already a wreck). So, the deer is lying in a ditch trying to stand on 3 legs. I’m thinking “I have to put this thing out of it’s misery”. All I had with me was my .357 5 shot snub nose. (S&W mod 640, stainless)
Can’t hit it from here. So, I open the door, and the deer vanishes.
Yeah, it’s possible to get so drunk you don’t remember important things for years. But one of those guys remembers it.
@@johncox2865 yes sir, I totally agree with you.
@@johncox2865 yes sir, I totally agree with you.
Humans can actually run down ungulates. That's how we initially got game. That being said our ancestors were way more athletic and endurance was paramount to survival. A average marathon runner can run a deer down. This guy ,drunk probably not 😂
They should talk to Kilmer about why he was uncooperative with the searchers -- I'm pretty privacy oriented myself -- but in a case like this you make an exception
Celebrities are barely human
I mean, I don't like people, I want people to stay the hell off my property, but if they're looking for a missing person, I'd grab my rifle and a coat and offer them an extra set of eyes.
Never knew Val Kilmer was such a douchebag, even my anti-social ass cuts SAR a break.
He's known for being an a hole.
For the record, Dave does a great job of investigating. He actually was a detective/investigator for much of his life. He knows what he’s doing. To share the amount of 411 folks missing from questionable circumstances. Paranormal or other unusual beings are here, they are taking folks. I’m sure there are explanations for a variety of these missing folks. Maybe Stanley doesn’t qualify for 411, but I’m sure his family appreciated the inclusion. Dave started bringing disappearances to the forefront in a way nobody else had been doing. Now more folks are realizing he is on to something. Glad more folks are jumping on board to bring awareness to all the missing. If those 411 movies, books and presentations covered every detail there would not have been room for all that were included. I’m enjoying your presentations but I’m not cool with your group or you trashing a man who is carrying on to help us. Bringing awareness when so many don’t even have a clue it’s happening. He is a man in pain. Family that needs compassion and understanding not trashing! Prayers for all, this world needs more Daves. Random acts of kindness will do wonders for all involved. Try it! God bless ♥️🦶🏿♥️
He is a fraud.
BS Paulidies was never a detective. He is con artist getting rich off dead and missing people.
Kindness that is random is not sincere. It has to be consistent.
@@jamesrodgers3132 Any act of kindness is sincere. A kind person is consistently kind. An act of selflessness is appreciated by the recipient and could change their situation immensely. A random act for a stranger helps your own mentality. I hope you will be the recipient of such an act one day James. Life is to short to be negative about every person and their motives. You aren’t supposed to judge folks, just love them. Treat folks the way you want to be treated. Accept kindness with the intention it was given, don’t try to figure out a motive. I hope someone is especially and sincerely nice to you today James. God bless
Paulidies was never a detective he was a police officer of the court. He was fired because he got caught selling bogus celebrity and sports figure paraphernalia. Before 4/11 he tried to sell books on bigfoot that failed miserably. Every single case he covers both leaves out information and completely makes up BS. He is a con artist thru and thru.
Deorr Kunz, you're the only RUclipsr that can do the story right. C'mon
It was the parents. The cops know it, the private investigator the parents hired knows it, and we know it. The fact the clothes he was supposedly wearing when he disappeared were found in the parents’ home, along with their refusal to offer the private investigator their complete cooperation, did it for me. Obviously just my opinion and speculation based on the evidence that has been reported. I have no inside or personal knowledge.
@@archimusprime2400 anytime I hear this arguement for the parents I also respond with Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton. Her baby was attacked and eaten by a Dingo in 1980. No one believed her or her husband and they both spent time in prison. Prosecuters said all forensic evidence points to the parents as the killers.... Except new evidence came out later on that a dingo did infact take and kill their baby and they were both aquitted. Now I am not saying the parents did or didn't do it, speculation is just that, anything could of happened. What I am asking for is a good Doc RUclipsr to cover the story. This channel has really dug out facts a lot of other channels and even movies don't cover and I feel he could do it properly.
Your explanations of cases make way more sense than Missing411. These cases have a far more realistic explanation than David Paulides makes it out to be. He deliberately withholds details to make things appear supernatural.
Agreed. Paulides definitely takes the "clickbait" approach.
Well that's ironic u fool coz Davids channel and books precedes this copycat channel whom makes major references to o David's work
Missing enigma is an interesting channel but basically it feeds off the 411 cases created by David whom highlights these cases prior to all these copycats so I suggest u get your head outta enigmas butt añd enjoy without discrediting others
@@johnjames945It never fails, these online trolls always show up. Just because locates a case doesn't mean he does a good job at explaning it. But hey, go back to watching Fox news and your beliefs in lizard people and the Marlargo's pumpkin second coming.
@Michael A Missing411 is light on facts, which is why Missing Enigma is good as it lends itself more to explaining what happened based on facts rather than inexplicable supernatural speculation. If you enjoy that, that's fine, but I believe most of these cases can be reasonably explained based on the facts.
@@johnjames945 Paulides is a hack who doesn't do any real investigative work. He spins things to add mystery and make it sound like unearthly things happened when in reality it was nothing out of the ordinary.
Missing Enigma did a far better explanation of this case.
I will never understand why some people think running blindly into the woods intoxicated is a good idea? Most people get lost at their local Walmart, what do they expect would happen if they go into the woods!
Daves most famous reports fall like a house of cards when put to any light.Imagine what we would find if we looked into the cases that he just Cruise's through daily with no details...just now knowing his viewer's just buy everything.
You are right about his viewers buying anything. I am one of his ex viewers. I have been listening to him for s couple years now but this guy has turned me from watching Dave any more. I unsubscribed from his channel today.
@@skyking4501 Not to mention he spews hardcore far rigjt racist talking pointa daily
I'm suspicious of anyone claiming someone else is far right cuz 99% of the time they are lying. If I go check this guy out will I actually find far right racist shit?
@@doesntmatter4477 right, Dave says something like we need to be wary of China, and someone claims he's "far-right". 🙄
Art Bell was onto Dave's B.S
This was just suggested to me 28 mins after being uploaded, YT is honouring this awesome content!
Completely transitioned frm 411. Thanks for this channel. Dave tells to many lies and now he's upset about his boy he's lost all rationale
Him and Ozzy are on both the same train. jmho.
I have unsubscribed from his channel due to many many inconsistencies in his recounting of stories. I remember hearing him on an episode of Coast to Coast talking about 3 cases that really had my attention so I later did some online research of my own and it turned out he had added things to the stories that weren’t true. All three stories! Since his son died his channel and focus have totally changed and he’s gotten very political which was a huge turnoff as well.
@@gypsydoratarot8441 exactly right. I found the same things when I looked into it
@@gypsydoratarot8441 me as well, its all just doom and gloom
Why didn't the woman just call police? She could've told him she would call them herself. I agree maybe he was inebriated and that caused Vigil initially to think someone was shooting at him. You explained more than the missing411 story of Vigil disappeared into a fog bank. That people were trying to locate a missing man and Val Kilmer kicked them off his land says a lot to me. I've never liked him, he's full of himself. You state Nadels scent was tracked to that land, maybe he was there, injured hoping for help. I feel that a good part of these hunter disappearances are either accidental or intentional killings and that some people are getting away with murder. Thanks for the added details.
I think the other 3 in the truck who where chasing him are the same who where with him since the beginning i mean his father and 2 friends or brother? I think he tried to run away from them and didnt chase a deer...
David Paulides is a joke. He is always leaving out critical pieces of information that doesn't fit his agenda. Well done video my friend.
Exactly. Usually takes 5 minutes of research to figure it out.
Keep up the great work!
I believe you studied at art school. Your art is wonderful. Thank you so much. I love these kind of cases.
"...before being confronted by actor Val Kilmer who owned the land, and subsequently kicked them off..."
Wait wut
Had they gone the other way maybe Tom Cruise kicks them off his land.
Yeah right? Love how they throw that in....then just continue on with the story.
Mel had got lost multiple times before so his friends thought it was a good to leave him alone. .smart
I'm with you on this fact!! What a pathetic joke!!
Lmao the Val Kilmer part threw me off big time, that’s the last thing I was expecting to hear in a disappearance video
I feel like out of every few hundred or thousand of these cases r genuinely unexplainable, however, as most people with something to sell do, David paulides stretched a lot of these cases to fit his narrative
And glocks don’t have safeties typically.
Thank youThe Missing Enigma .
All these men going out hunting together with guns coming home with one missing sounds sus to me
Yea, people hunting with guns, thats sooooooo suspicious...
mouth breather
This dude is TOP NOTCH!! Talk about doing some serious research and stating all the facts correctly!!
Thanks for pronouncing Stanley’s last name correctly ❤️
You do a very good job on your drawings. And I enjoy your channel keep up yhe good job . On these cases very excellent information.
The New Mexico accent is interesting. It almost reminds me of a Canadian accent.
When I lived in Albuquerque, many if my coworkers and neighbors were of native American (Ute, Apache, Navajo) and Spaniard heritage. It is certainly a unique accent.
I love how you torpedo the Missing 411 cases!😀
Someone stumbling on Cartel and gang activity is always a possibility in these states.
I think that's what happened in that first case.
Something I started thinking after hearing about this kind of cases, and I think that if I'm ever lost in the wilderness I will make an effort to move slowly if at all, and leave tracks, cuts in trees pointing in my direction, stoping every now and again to break branches and flaten bushes and maybe leave an piece of cloth to help the dogs