Ok Travis in the thumbnail is clickbaity I know BUT - 1. I wanted to see if it works 2. I wanted to make sure people understand I'm talking about TTRPGs without putting tons of words in the title 3. I think this is actually a good video 4. come on this is not the worst clickbait you've see even in the last hour I think it's fine 5. You wouldn't BELIEVE number 5. Doctors hate this guy.
I clicked because of the title. I used to be a DM for groups I found online and honestly I wish more people had this mentality.... But most of the time the games fizzled out because they didn't communicate what they wanted or add anything to the game. One even called my games Dull (that one hurt) But every session when I ask how the game was they would say it's good and they had fun. And when I asked what you would like to or or change going forward, no one ever said anything different... Even session 0s they would all give me what they looked forward to and wanted out of our games. I tried... But.. idk maybe my style was a good fit for them. Not for this reason, but rather schedule, I've stopped DMing.. these thoughts linger and maybe I've made them worse in my head, but.. I'm scared to DM again because of it.
Travis is actually the best player for the Splash screen, as there is at least one video saying he's the best player as he supports boosting other players.
A quick reminder for people revisiting the vid: 1) Learn a little bit about the game before playing. 2) Think about your character. Where they are at, what they want - this will help with decision making, and may lead to whole story arcs if the campaign allows, whenever there's a quiet moment. 3) Think about other characters. 4) Help with logistics: snacks, scheduling, note-taking, etc. 5) Keep track of where your character sheet is at.
A GM, I ran a mini campaign. I put in a HUGE amount of work preparing, in particular, I made a super clear "expectations" document. Outlining table expectations, effort expected of the players, what kind of story they can expect, estimated campaign length. I didn't expect too much from the players, but more just trying to make them clear. It was SUPER helpful as it filtered out players who this campaign was not for, and players who did join had very clear expectations, and were SUPER engaged, and it was SUPER fun. I cannot stress, I will always be doing this in the future. Now that I have done it, I will never go back.
I often say a game is like a road trip, yes one person is driving things forward, but everyone else in the car can do things to make the trip better, from doing directions, planning, snacks, putting in for fuel etc.
I'm a forever GM who after 18 years of TTRPGs is finally a player in a D&D game. I wrote a full 3 page backstory, then added 6 villains for the DM to use. We have a discord channel and I post extensive notes about each session to it. A couple sessions ago I initiated about 2 hours of independent roleplay. I know what I want from my players and this video summarizes it pretty well
That sounds awesome - provided that the GM is onboard, it could also of course be too much sometimes. When I first played a game after only running, I was definitely guilty of "taking over" a bit as a player.
I would have said "thanks for the effort, and it is cool, but save that for your own game, when we play that. I want no more than maximum ten sentences of backstory; we write the story together as we play. Also; you are a level 1 nub when you start. You have little backstory. Go watch VLDL D&D BACKSTORY to see what to avoid. Here is an inspiration point and a beer for the effort."
@@PalleRasmussenI fully agree. I ask the players who their character is, what their character did before coming on an adventure, and why they stopped to be an adventurer. Those things are usually enough info but I’ve gotten an entire backstory that had no answer for “why” they’re doing it. I’d prefer a page at most with maybe some relevant relationships I can draw from as motivation in-game
Interesting. Ya'll just have different play groups than us I guess. The DM and other players celebrate our sessions being all RP. I personally always invite more backstory. However you have fun, cheers
I like the concept of player prep for a game. As a GM there is so much I need to know. Players knowing what their characters can do is so helpful. Learning class abilities and spells has been an issue in past games. My group was able to mostly solve the problem by starting each session with 15 to 30 minutes of time to learn spells and ask questions about how class features work.
I make a character to-do list! It can have stuff like "buy [equipment]" or "ask [another pc] to take my character's ashes to her family in case she dies"
4:23 is a point of frustration I think every DM has experienced, especially with newer-to-my-table players. A lot of how I run games is based on what they want to do to progress the story, so if they don't know what they want to do, I have to do more lifting to progress us along. It makes me smile when a player has a moment of inspiration and suggests something to do so I can run with it. That player typically get rewarded in one way or another to encourage it in the future!
Yep. If I know I have new players at the table I’ll encourage a veteran player to help them feel comfortable to make narrative statements and push the story, and I’ll have that player lead by example.
My group uses the Patchwork Paladin blog’s SPQR tips. Also, I often compare this to showing up a local amateur sports club and insisting the team organizer buy and maintain all the equipment, teach the game, and quite often, ensure I win every match. Imagine how the other players in the team reacts to this kind of personality?
Amen... i wish players did all of these more. I talked to a friend a while back and he told me he wasn't liking playing dnd, and I was like why. He told me because he wasn't invested in the story. I was like, well you do know, you have to actually add to the story too, you can't just sit there and let things happen and hope that the DM just gets it all right. You have to take initiative and do things, you have to add to the story and make sure you're entertaining too. He came back and told me about his game next week and he told me he liked the story now and he actually got into it to the point it made him cry at one point. Please, if you do nothing else try to make sure you add to the story so you're not blaming the DM for reading your mind and entertaining you correcting.
That's why the mechanic of "vows" in Ironsworn works so well for me and I try to replicate it in most games. The ONLY way to get experience in that game is to swear a vow to do something and then do it, and only you (the player) can decide what that is. It created so many moments where my players were like "wow how did you make the story so tailored to us" and I'm like yes I am a genius and the world's best GM but actually - "You literally wrote the story for me with quests you care about"
Some others that could be added for players: 1. Feed the theme. Think of how your character is adding to the themes and style of the game. Watch some media of that style if you don't know it. Explore how you can work that style into your character's action descriptions and speech, like a GM does with environmental descriptions. 2. Feed the lore. You absolutely do not have to be interested in every bit of lore but think of what your character is interested in. Characters should have some investment into the world, whether that's knowing the best gladiators to bet on, comparing Gnomish fashion styles, or having deep questions about the cosmology. Talk with your GM about it so they are more prepared for you to invest into it or, if your GM welcomes you doing it, create some lore for it yourself.
I make my players write at least 1 major goal and 2 minor goals on their character sheets. Major goals are long term goals, such as your character's dreams and aspirations. Minor goals can also be long term, but they are usually a stepping stone towards your major goal. A major goal might be wanting to build a castle and become a lord. A minor goal might be acquiring land or becoming a knight.
As a forever player, I usually keep notes that I rewrite into 3rd-person chronicles for the party, recap the previous session (thanks to those notes) and maintain a party loot inventory online. Since I am the most experienced player in two of my groups, it’s not uncommon for me to (politely) recall or dig out rules as needed during the session in order to lift some burden off the GM.
Not something I do, but awesome nonetheless: In our group we have two players who are very good at taking notes while being in the game. They organize those notes in google docs and make them available for the rest of the group and the DM. Having good notes and going over them individually before the game is really helpful for all of us.
As a GM, my whole expectation is that I'll do the organization and actual GM duties, but it's often one of my players who volunteers a location, and either they or someone else deal with snacks. One thing I do harp on endlessly is to know their character, both so I don't have to hold back as their 'enemy' and so they're not frustrated when it feels like we're both wearing padded gloves. Example; I'm running Lancer online at the moment, so basically what I ask of my players is to show up and pay attention. Pretty much it. It's a combat heavy campaign and we're basically just wargaming. The very first session, my players all got their teeth kicked in, while I was pulling my punches, and all but one got frustrated that they weren't doing enough damage and that the enemy was doing too much. (Context, they were attacking the Bastion, which has max armor, while two Assaults chipped away at their HP and a Hive ate them slowly from the background while zoning everybody.) Next session, after I laid it out that they weren't using their gear, they were attacking the wrong target, they were basically making it far too easy for me to do damage, we got a fourth and everyone studied up on their capabilities. They went from slapping at armor with limp noodles to taking half of my enemies off the board in a single turn. With that confidence, they've sprinted headlong into anything I throw at them, but now they're improvising and actually squeezing every bit of worth out of their mechs. And I'm not going easy on them: I'm legit playing a wargame on my end and they're just downright beating me :D it's a crazy feeling to enjoy losing like this but I'm having a blast. Got a little rant-y with my example but games are a lot more fun when everyone is on the same page. Players, learn your capabilities: your GM will be able to make much more epic battles if you're punching at or above your proverbial weight.
I try my damniest to be the guy that is helping if I can when I'm the player. I have my own story cued up if the DM needs a direction. I'll control allied PC's if the Dm needs me to in combat, i'll look up rules so the dm doesn't have to. Just gotta be careful not to be correcting the players too much when they're wrong unless asked because you come off as 'that guy'. I rather we play a little wrong then me annoying everyone with how right I am. I've always loved Critical Role not for Matt Mercer (I love him, he's excellent at making combat exciting) but for his players. They move things along, are attentive and supportive to the other players and try to add positively to the plot. I know they're actors and they're trying, but I wish people I play with tried a bit harder in that regard. Good vid bro, I think you covered everything I'd consider for being a good player.
I like to ask the party after each session "so what are your guys current plans?" Or something similar to know what i need ready for next session. I also make sure to give my players story ark options, maybe a npc gives them a set of missions with a deadline but a different npc tells them that they are being sent on this mission because as a trap to get them killed). I also like to throw out a few major event going on in the area so my players can feel free to jump ship when the politics dont feel right. Letting the players jump ship give me immediate things i can prepare later when they eventually run into people tied to the mission they were given. Im currently running a political sandbox, i session 0d the goal to kill the void god (doomsday plot), gave the players a mysterious portal entry into this high fantasy world, and threw a few roads they can walk on and a ton of different things they can tie together on those roads. I also like the random brainstorming for the small stuff, like outside of a big town the players with get to in a session or 3, theres gonna be a man playing the blues then later on right at the entrance of the city theres going to be a man who cloned himself multiple times playing some upbeat jazz song about butter and beans. BUTTA AND BEANS, BUTTA AND BEANS, I LOVE ME MY BUTTA AND BEANS! Thats how i let my players tell me through action what they want me to have ready in the next few sessions, butter and beans
Playing games like blades in the dark and the between has def made me a better player. WE ALL drive a story forward and especially in the between players are responsible for lots of things, like narration, masks etc etc. And it really makes you put effort into it, not just BE there as it often is.
100%. I like D&D just fine, but it definitely is designed for a very passive experience from the player, or at least that partly how the culture around it evolved. Coming back to D&D after playing PbtA games has made me a better player.
God's, I am a forever GM because I cannot find others. But I would love a player, even one over the last 20 years, that prepped. Even people playing for years don't do this 😢
"The Greatest Villain of all time is Scheduling" posted on the same day my D&D group (and only friends I made since moving to NYC) of almost 2 years fell apart due to the DM deciding to change the day to one that worked for their partner and no one else... Ouch.
Lol, players prepping. Good one. The DM is the monkey that is supposed to dance for the players and give them free entertainment. Why would they prep? (actual sentiment told to me once, didn't stay with that group very long)
The idea here is great but the execution is not ideal. There are two types is prep from the PC side of things in a non-pure narrative RPG. Startup and ongoing. Start up (this you pegged well): - If you can get a primer of the system. - Read the DM’s Player Info - Consider your goals and backstory - (if possible!) help set up player to player communications The issue most of the time when I “DM”ed was maintaining: - players need to understand how spells/powers/attacks work (ideally try some dry runs with other players or with scenarios) - keep notes and then read them (seriously how many times have you seen them say - what is out goal) - keep the “DM” advised on any tricks or possible things you may want to do (and also if possible let other players know) Just my take.
I always take my time to message my DM after each session to let him know of any thoughts and feelings that occurred during the game, as well some general feedback. In these messages I write what are my ideas for my character, what I'd love to do in a future or what items I'd be focusing on finding. That as well as always sending updated character sheet when there's a level up or any changes. Also, I always try to keep up with my character and build to compensate for whatever my party might be lacking, and just knowing what I want after next level up, so I don't sit there and ponder which spell to choose and just have the choice made in advance. In these situations I often help others to make their decisions. And during the game I'm the one tracking initiative.
we recently entered into an election for the game I run, and after running the numbers, I realized if each in game took a full session like usual, we wouldn't finish the election month until mid 2025. I had to implement quite a few new practices that I hope to continue in the future just because of this unique scenario. first off I've had to take on a no-nonsense approach to the actual session itself. If it doesn't belong in the session, every player doesn't need to see it, or it's long and tedious like logistics, a combat that doesn't include all the party members, or a secret scene that the player doesn't want to be known by the other players, then we put a pin in it and rp it either after the session or schedule a date before next week's session to squeeze it in. this alone has saved me SO much time and cut down on my group's usual sluggish pace. I also got more comfortable with retcons. missing a player or two? just run what we can future or past, then retcon events as the missing players fill in the gaps. sometimes it eats up rolls or scenes, but it ultimately keeps the game moving and cuts out any "well, we gotta wait for everyone before the next major plot point". nope, here it is, they'll get the cliff notes in the session recap next week. couple this with the fact that 4/5 of my players are rp heavy and I usually have to pull the reigns on their rp scenes so it doesn't take up the entire session for one scene, and even with this method, mostly just tackling downtime and generic campaigning in the election, and It still feels like I'm juggling too many balls, just passing between players as fast as possible to progress as much as possible. the game I run takes a heavy sandbox approach, so most my players know to fill in the gaps by now when we reach that "so what do you guys do" moment. I tend to be pretty transparent about where my content is and vice versa my group tends to tell me exactly what their goals are, so the only curve balls i get are custom scenes they want to do in a session. It ultimately leads up to me just being like "if you guys go here, here, or here, i got a ton of stuff planned, otherwise you still have x, y, and z you could do if you want to deviate from the main story for a bit". aside from a few back to back rp heavy sessions in between adventures, the party mostly tries to follow the main questline while fitting in downtime as much as possible mid-dungeon crawl or in long rest nighttime in between days. I as a player have been known to write little short fanfics or multi-page documents just for fun before, but my players constantly come to me with new directions to take their multi-year long characters on and often write up full primers for me on new backstory elements they want. Never before had I had a player come to me with an accent I had to do for a backstory npc... or the making of 24 individually unique npcs when it was entirely unnecessary to do so... or just the constant 1-3 rp scenes each player comes to each session with, but my group does that type of stuff frequently. the only advice I'd give against trimming the fat from each session as hard as I do, is to make sure scenes that every player needs to see gets shown to them. one of my players loves to be the solo player, so when we do solo stuff out of session, they have like 3 scenes minimum they always want to do, but when it relates to major character progression, I always force that stuff to be in the main session, because I want the other players to see and have that meta-game knowledge, even though it's usually just a solo scene the party can't intrude on or spy on to see. then if you end up having players drop in and out or just have the typical carousel of players where you can never get everyone to show up to a session at a time, then I often just repeat scenes or recite major important stuff briefly again, so we're all on the same page. like if they got a taunt from the bbeg via sending or something, but only 3 players heard it, I'll repeat that scene or phrase he said for the other players before the start of next session
I don’t think it’s that bad. It’s ok that the GM who’s introducing the game is teaching the group, players don’t need to learn the full rules beforehand but even just picking up the basics beforehand is super helpful. I do the same for board games if a friend wants to teach us some big crunchy game.
i think if you're having a campaign, the players need to learn the system. If it's a short, one shot, few sessions, whatever, i don't care that much. But I've had year long campaigns where the players still need handholding on the rules toward the end, and I'm tired boss.
@ yeah true. I ran a D&D campaign a few years ago and having to explain to the rouge how sneak attack works again on session 34 was getting old. Come dude it’s your one thing make some effort.
There’s a unique thing about ttrpgs, which is that you can engage heavily with the game without knowing the rules. Because you’re engaging with story. There are basically no other games like that. In some ttrpgs and play styles, engaging with the rules can actually hamper immersion! Not that I think players shouldn’t learn rules, but i think ttrpgs make it eminently more possible to contribute and participate without learning the rules and letting the GM prompt you on what to roll.
@@grahamward7 The absolutely bare minimum acceptable is learning the rules that affect you and your character as a player. Anything less and you're requiring everyone else to pick up your slack, and that's unacceptable. If the rules get in the way of interfacing with the story, you're using the wrong system.
I will interact with shop keeps when needed and co-operate with my party but I don't set big goals because shouldn't the campaign be the main goal? Why would I try to distract from what the DM has prepped?
This has a lot to do with the type of system and game you are playing. There are definitely GMs out there that want you to do a specific thing, and they should be upfront about it. No point in the illusion of choice if there should be a choice. For example when I was running Descent Into Avernus, and at some point I needed the players to get to Candlekeep so the story can move forward, I out-of-play told them - I need you to eventually get to Candlekeep and they were all cool with it. Today when I run games, I don't prep plots. I prep locations, what the NPCs want, and generally things that happen in the world (the lich is doing a ritual, the kingdom is being attacked etc.). The plot evolves from what the PCs choose to do based on all the information they have, and the backstories they came up with. This all does have to align with the spirit of the campaign though - if we're playing a classic D&D campaign where we're a bunch of heroes out to kill the BBEG then sure, mostly we need to buy into that and work on it, though I still think there's a lot of fun to be had exploring other things the characters want to do on the way. Personally I enjoy campaigns where I as the GM don't know the story. I know what's happening in the broader world, but character choices drive things forward, and can often take me in unexpected directions.
Sometimes, I think GM's enable these bad habits. Make clear up front that, if they don't want to meet certain player expectations, then this isn't the game for them. Have genuine, two-way conversations with a struggling player. At some point, you gotta let them deal with the natural consequences of their actions as a player (and their player characters). And if they won't keep their agreement to fit in as appropriate, help them find a different group to play with. Currently running three groups. I don't keep a journal for them, rather I strongly suggest they do so. If a group doesn't... oh well, they deal with the consequences of that decision. And I help noobs learn to play the game... but I'm not going to keep reminding them about the same rule over and over for 6 months. If they die when the really could have avoided it because they made no effort to learn the game... oh well. And I don't ask my players to help with the operations of the table... it's a requirement to be in the group! If there is a player you're struggling with, you can 1) try to change them 2) change yourself (adapt/get over it) or 3) ask them to leave. But whatever you do, don't just let things keep going and be p*ssed about it. Life is too short.
DMing is like herding cats. Cats without training. Cats without training who want to do anything but be herded. It's often quite literally a thankless task. Players, help us out. We're begging you.
If I, the DM, give a spot in the world to do something with, please don't just handwave it to everyone else to figure out *Try* to care about the NPCs Please at least read the part of the book that pertains to your PC, such as your class/subclass, instead of just expecting the DM to recite it constantly Don't boil down other PC's big backstory scenes to a wet fart of a joke If you're given a rare magic item, but it's not exactly the one you wanted, please don't then never use it and complain you get nothing And I cannot stress enough, if your DM gives you a major plot beforehand, try and give your character a reason to care so that after 6+ months of the DM trying to tie your PC into stuff you don't just shrug and leave Advice from a pro-DM whose been dealing with the most stressfully flippant PC imaginable
Yeah I can relate to some of that. If a player rescues a plot hook or NPC to a fart joke then we’re simply not trying to get the same things out of the game, it’s all good, we can be friends, we just shouldn’t play TTRPGs together.
Not correct. I have seen this in every system. Also, to be clear easily 60-70% of games seem to be D&D of one edition or another so there is no good comparison just using the game they are playing. ((In my experience the worst game table for this was a Rifts of you are going by system))
I think it’s just that most players get into the hobby through D&D, and by the time they branch out to other systems they are more experienced players.
Ok Travis in the thumbnail is clickbaity I know BUT -
1. I wanted to see if it works
2. I wanted to make sure people understand I'm talking about TTRPGs without putting tons of words in the title
3. I think this is actually a good video
4. come on this is not the worst clickbait you've see even in the last hour I think it's fine
5. You wouldn't BELIEVE number 5. Doctors hate this guy.
Didn't seem clickbait-ee. You go over that stuff for the video.
I clicked because of the title. I used to be a DM for groups I found online and honestly I wish more people had this mentality.... But most of the time the games fizzled out because they didn't communicate what they wanted or add anything to the game. One even called my games Dull (that one hurt)
But every session when I ask how the game was they would say it's good and they had fun. And when I asked what you would like to or or change going forward, no one ever said anything different... Even session 0s they would all give me what they looked forward to and wanted out of our games. I tried... But.. idk maybe my style was a good fit for them.
Not for this reason, but rather schedule, I've stopped DMing.. these thoughts linger and maybe I've made them worse in my head, but.. I'm scared to DM again because of it.
who is Travis?
Travis is actually the best player for the Splash screen, as there is at least one video saying he's the best player as he supports boosting other players.
Wasn’t clicky baity at all. He’s a stellar player who had a track record of good performance and knowing his character. Good pic honestly.
A quick reminder for people revisiting the vid:
1) Learn a little bit about the game before playing.
2) Think about your character. Where they are at, what they want - this will help with decision making, and may lead to whole story arcs if the campaign allows, whenever there's a quiet moment.
3) Think about other characters.
4) Help with logistics: snacks, scheduling, note-taking, etc.
5) Keep track of where your character sheet is at.
Thank you. Thats very helpful. Maybe this comment should be pinned!
A GM, I ran a mini campaign. I put in a HUGE amount of work preparing, in particular, I made a super clear "expectations" document. Outlining table expectations, effort expected of the players, what kind of story they can expect, estimated campaign length. I didn't expect too much from the players, but more just trying to make them clear.
It was SUPER helpful as it filtered out players who this campaign was not for, and players who did join had very clear expectations, and were SUPER engaged, and it was SUPER fun.
I cannot stress, I will always be doing this in the future. Now that I have done it, I will never go back.
I often say a game is like a road trip, yes one person is driving things forward, but everyone else in the car can do things to make the trip better, from doing directions, planning, snacks, putting in for fuel etc.
that's a great analogy!!!
I’m stealing this!
I'm a forever GM who after 18 years of TTRPGs is finally a player in a D&D game. I wrote a full 3 page backstory, then added 6 villains for the DM to use. We have a discord channel and I post extensive notes about each session to it. A couple sessions ago I initiated about 2 hours of independent roleplay. I know what I want from my players and this video summarizes it pretty well
That sounds awesome - provided that the GM is onboard, it could also of course be too much sometimes. When I first played a game after only running, I was definitely guilty of "taking over" a bit as a player.
Jesusfuck that's amazing and how much fun did you have though
I would have said "thanks for the effort, and it is cool, but save that for your own game, when we play that. I want no more than maximum ten sentences of backstory; we write the story together as we play. Also; you are a level 1 nub when you start. You have little backstory. Go watch VLDL D&D BACKSTORY to see what to avoid. Here is an inspiration point and a beer for the effort."
@@PalleRasmussenI fully agree. I ask the players who their character is, what their character did before coming on an adventure, and why they stopped to be an adventurer. Those things are usually enough info but I’ve gotten an entire backstory that had no answer for “why” they’re doing it.
I’d prefer a page at most with maybe some relevant relationships I can draw from as motivation in-game
Interesting. Ya'll just have different play groups than us I guess. The DM and other players celebrate our sessions being all RP. I personally always invite more backstory. However you have fun, cheers
I like the concept of player prep for a game. As a GM there is so much I need to know. Players knowing what their characters can do is so helpful. Learning class abilities and spells has been an issue in past games.
My group was able to mostly solve the problem by starting each session with 15 to 30 minutes of time to learn spells and ask questions about how class features work.
I make a character to-do list! It can have stuff like "buy [equipment]" or "ask [another pc] to take my character's ashes to her family in case she dies"
4:23 is a point of frustration I think every DM has experienced, especially with newer-to-my-table players. A lot of how I run games is based on what they want to do to progress the story, so if they don't know what they want to do, I have to do more lifting to progress us along. It makes me smile when a player has a moment of inspiration and suggests something to do so I can run with it. That player typically get rewarded in one way or another to encourage it in the future!
Yep. If I know I have new players at the table I’ll encourage a veteran player to help them feel comfortable to make narrative statements and push the story, and I’ll have that player lead by example.
My group uses the Patchwork Paladin blog’s SPQR tips.
Also, I often compare this to showing up a local amateur sports club and insisting the team organizer buy and maintain all the equipment, teach the game, and quite often, ensure I win every match. Imagine how the other players in the team reacts to this kind of personality?
That's a solid comparison! I haven't heard of that blog, I'll check it out.
Amen... i wish players did all of these more.
I talked to a friend a while back and he told me he wasn't liking playing dnd, and I was like why. He told me because he wasn't invested in the story. I was like, well you do know, you have to actually add to the story too, you can't just sit there and let things happen and hope that the DM just gets it all right. You have to take initiative and do things, you have to add to the story and make sure you're entertaining too. He came back and told me about his game next week and he told me he liked the story now and he actually got into it to the point it made him cry at one point.
Please, if you do nothing else try to make sure you add to the story so you're not blaming the DM for reading your mind and entertaining you correcting.
That's why the mechanic of "vows" in Ironsworn works so well for me and I try to replicate it in most games. The ONLY way to get experience in that game is to swear a vow to do something and then do it, and only you (the player) can decide what that is. It created so many moments where my players were like "wow how did you make the story so tailored to us" and I'm like yes I am a genius and the world's best GM but actually - "You literally wrote the story for me with quests you care about"
Some others that could be added for players:
1. Feed the theme. Think of how your character is adding to the themes and style of the game. Watch some media of that style if you don't know it. Explore how you can work that style into your character's action descriptions and speech, like a GM does with environmental descriptions.
2. Feed the lore. You absolutely do not have to be interested in every bit of lore but think of what your character is interested in. Characters should have some investment into the world, whether that's knowing the best gladiators to bet on, comparing Gnomish fashion styles, or having deep questions about the cosmology. Talk with your GM about it so they are more prepared for you to invest into it or, if your GM welcomes you doing it, create some lore for it yourself.
These are good ones! Very relevant to my 40k game.
I make my players write at least 1 major goal and 2 minor goals on their character sheets. Major goals are long term goals, such as your character's dreams and aspirations. Minor goals can also be long term, but they are usually a stepping stone towards your major goal.
A major goal might be wanting to build a castle and become a lord. A minor goal might be acquiring land or becoming a knight.
It goes a long way. I like how Soulbound bakes it into a mechanical benefit.
As a forever player, I usually keep notes that I rewrite into 3rd-person chronicles for the party, recap the previous session (thanks to those notes) and maintain a party loot inventory online. Since I am the most experienced player in two of my groups, it’s not uncommon for me to (politely) recall or dig out rules as needed during the session in order to lift some burden off the GM.
That sounds awesome. I have a fantasy of one day binding all my session recaps into a little book and give it to my players.
Thank you from long time DM. Realy appreciated to get this out there.
Not something I do, but awesome nonetheless:
In our group we have two players who are very good at taking notes while being in the game. They organize those notes in google docs and make them available for the rest of the group and the DM.
Having good notes and going over them individually before the game is really helpful for all of us.
As a GM, my whole expectation is that I'll do the organization and actual GM duties, but it's often one of my players who volunteers a location, and either they or someone else deal with snacks. One thing I do harp on endlessly is to know their character, both so I don't have to hold back as their 'enemy' and so they're not frustrated when it feels like we're both wearing padded gloves.
Example; I'm running Lancer online at the moment, so basically what I ask of my players is to show up and pay attention. Pretty much it. It's a combat heavy campaign and we're basically just wargaming. The very first session, my players all got their teeth kicked in, while I was pulling my punches, and all but one got frustrated that they weren't doing enough damage and that the enemy was doing too much. (Context, they were attacking the Bastion, which has max armor, while two Assaults chipped away at their HP and a Hive ate them slowly from the background while zoning everybody.) Next session, after I laid it out that they weren't using their gear, they were attacking the wrong target, they were basically making it far too easy for me to do damage, we got a fourth and everyone studied up on their capabilities. They went from slapping at armor with limp noodles to taking half of my enemies off the board in a single turn. With that confidence, they've sprinted headlong into anything I throw at them, but now they're improvising and actually squeezing every bit of worth out of their mechs. And I'm not going easy on them: I'm legit playing a wargame on my end and they're just downright beating me :D it's a crazy feeling to enjoy losing like this but I'm having a blast.
Got a little rant-y with my example but games are a lot more fun when everyone is on the same page. Players, learn your capabilities: your GM will be able to make much more epic battles if you're punching at or above your proverbial weight.
I try my damniest to be the guy that is helping if I can when I'm the player. I have my own story cued up if the DM needs a direction. I'll control allied PC's if the Dm needs me to in combat, i'll look up rules so the dm doesn't have to. Just gotta be careful not to be correcting the players too much when they're wrong unless asked because you come off as 'that guy'. I rather we play a little wrong then me annoying everyone with how right I am.
I've always loved Critical Role not for Matt Mercer (I love him, he's excellent at making combat exciting) but for his players. They move things along, are attentive and supportive to the other players and try to add positively to the plot. I know they're actors and they're trying, but I wish people I play with tried a bit harder in that regard.
Good vid bro, I think you covered everything I'd consider for being a good player.
I like to ask the party after each session "so what are your guys current plans?" Or something similar to know what i need ready for next session. I also make sure to give my players story ark options, maybe a npc gives them a set of missions with a deadline but a different npc tells them that they are being sent on this mission because as a trap to get them killed). I also like to throw out a few major event going on in the area so my players can feel free to jump ship when the politics dont feel right. Letting the players jump ship give me immediate things i can prepare later when they eventually run into people tied to the mission they were given.
Im currently running a political sandbox, i session 0d the goal to kill the void god (doomsday plot), gave the players a mysterious portal entry into this high fantasy world, and threw a few roads they can walk on and a ton of different things they can tie together on those roads.
I also like the random brainstorming for the small stuff, like outside of a big town the players with get to in a session or 3, theres gonna be a man playing the blues then later on right at the entrance of the city theres going to be a man who cloned himself multiple times playing some upbeat jazz song about butter and beans. BUTTA AND BEANS, BUTTA AND BEANS, I LOVE ME MY BUTTA AND BEANS! Thats how i let my players tell me through action what they want me to have ready in the next few sessions, butter and beans
Playing games like blades in the dark and the between has def made me a better player. WE ALL drive a story forward and especially in the between players are responsible for lots of things, like narration, masks etc etc. And it really makes you put effort into it, not just BE there as it often is.
100%. I like D&D just fine, but it definitely is designed for a very passive experience from the player, or at least that partly how the culture around it evolved. Coming back to D&D after playing PbtA games has made me a better player.
God's, I am a forever GM because I cannot find others. But I would love a player, even one over the last 20 years, that prepped. Even people playing for years don't do this 😢
"The Greatest Villain of all time is Scheduling" posted on the same day my D&D group (and only friends I made since moving to NYC) of almost 2 years fell apart due to the DM deciding to change the day to one that worked for their partner and no one else...
Ouch.
That sucks. I hope you find a new group. I’ve made friends the same way since moving to Seattle.
Lol, players prepping. Good one. The DM is the monkey that is supposed to dance for the players and give them free entertainment. Why would they prep? (actual sentiment told to me once, didn't stay with that group very long)
Yeah the GM is not also a human who is your friend, why should they have any fun?
The idea here is great but the execution is not ideal.
There are two types is prep from the PC side of things in a non-pure narrative RPG. Startup and ongoing.
Start up (this you pegged well):
- If you can get a primer of the system.
- Read the DM’s Player Info
- Consider your goals and backstory
- (if possible!) help set up player to player communications
The issue most of the time when I “DM”ed was maintaining:
- players need to understand how spells/powers/attacks work (ideally try some dry runs with other players or with scenarios)
- keep notes and then read them (seriously how many times have you seen them say - what is out goal)
- keep the “DM” advised on any tricks or possible things you may want to do (and also if possible let other players know)
Just my take.
I always take my time to message my DM after each session to let him know of any thoughts and feelings that occurred during the game, as well some general feedback. In these messages I write what are my ideas for my character, what I'd love to do in a future or what items I'd be focusing on finding.
That as well as always sending updated character sheet when there's a level up or any changes.
Also, I always try to keep up with my character and build to compensate for whatever my party might be lacking, and just knowing what I want after next level up, so I don't sit there and ponder which spell to choose and just have the choice made in advance. In these situations I often help others to make their decisions.
And during the game I'm the one tracking initiative.
we recently entered into an election for the game I run, and after running the numbers, I realized if each in game took a full session like usual, we wouldn't finish the election month until mid 2025. I had to implement quite a few new practices that I hope to continue in the future just because of this unique scenario.
first off I've had to take on a no-nonsense approach to the actual session itself. If it doesn't belong in the session, every player doesn't need to see it, or it's long and tedious like logistics, a combat that doesn't include all the party members, or a secret scene that the player doesn't want to be known by the other players, then we put a pin in it and rp it either after the session or schedule a date before next week's session to squeeze it in. this alone has saved me SO much time and cut down on my group's usual sluggish pace.
I also got more comfortable with retcons. missing a player or two? just run what we can future or past, then retcon events as the missing players fill in the gaps. sometimes it eats up rolls or scenes, but it ultimately keeps the game moving and cuts out any "well, we gotta wait for everyone before the next major plot point". nope, here it is, they'll get the cliff notes in the session recap next week.
couple this with the fact that 4/5 of my players are rp heavy and I usually have to pull the reigns on their rp scenes so it doesn't take up the entire session for one scene, and even with this method, mostly just tackling downtime and generic campaigning in the election, and It still feels like I'm juggling too many balls, just passing between players as fast as possible to progress as much as possible.
the game I run takes a heavy sandbox approach, so most my players know to fill in the gaps by now when we reach that "so what do you guys do" moment. I tend to be pretty transparent about where my content is and vice versa my group tends to tell me exactly what their goals are, so the only curve balls i get are custom scenes they want to do in a session. It ultimately leads up to me just being like "if you guys go here, here, or here, i got a ton of stuff planned, otherwise you still have x, y, and z you could do if you want to deviate from the main story for a bit". aside from a few back to back rp heavy sessions in between adventures, the party mostly tries to follow the main questline while fitting in downtime as much as possible mid-dungeon crawl or in long rest nighttime in between days.
I as a player have been known to write little short fanfics or multi-page documents just for fun before, but my players constantly come to me with new directions to take their multi-year long characters on and often write up full primers for me on new backstory elements they want. Never before had I had a player come to me with an accent I had to do for a backstory npc... or the making of 24 individually unique npcs when it was entirely unnecessary to do so... or just the constant 1-3 rp scenes each player comes to each session with, but my group does that type of stuff frequently.
the only advice I'd give against trimming the fat from each session as hard as I do, is to make sure scenes that every player needs to see gets shown to them. one of my players loves to be the solo player, so when we do solo stuff out of session, they have like 3 scenes minimum they always want to do, but when it relates to major character progression, I always force that stuff to be in the main session, because I want the other players to see and have that meta-game knowledge, even though it's usually just a solo scene the party can't intrude on or spy on to see. then if you end up having players drop in and out or just have the typical carousel of players where you can never get everyone to show up to a session at a time, then I often just repeat scenes or recite major important stuff briefly again, so we're all on the same page. like if they got a taunt from the bbeg via sending or something, but only 3 players heard it, I'll repeat that scene or phrase he said for the other players before the start of next session
"5 ways players can prep" "way number 1: learn the fucking rules" The fact this needs to be said is a depressing insight into the state of the hobby.
I don’t think it’s that bad. It’s ok that the GM who’s introducing the game is teaching the group, players don’t need to learn the full rules beforehand but even just picking up the basics beforehand is super helpful. I do the same for board games if a friend wants to teach us some big crunchy game.
i think if you're having a campaign, the players need to learn the system. If it's a short, one shot, few sessions, whatever, i don't care that much. But I've had year long campaigns where the players still need handholding on the rules toward the end, and I'm tired boss.
@ yeah true. I ran a D&D campaign a few years ago and having to explain to the rouge how sneak attack works again on session 34 was getting old. Come dude it’s your one thing make some effort.
There’s a unique thing about ttrpgs, which is that you can engage heavily with the game without knowing the rules. Because you’re engaging with story. There are basically no other games like that. In some ttrpgs and play styles, engaging with the rules can actually hamper immersion! Not that I think players shouldn’t learn rules, but i think ttrpgs make it eminently more possible to contribute and participate without learning the rules and letting the GM prompt you on what to roll.
@@grahamward7 The absolutely bare minimum acceptable is learning the rules that affect you and your character as a player. Anything less and you're requiring everyone else to pick up your slack, and that's unacceptable. If the rules get in the way of interfacing with the story, you're using the wrong system.
4:25 as a player, I do not like this question. It's too open ended. "What are we supposed to be doing? I'll work on that then."
I will interact with shop keeps when needed and co-operate with my party but I don't set big goals because shouldn't the campaign be the main goal? Why would I try to distract from what the DM has prepped?
This has a lot to do with the type of system and game you are playing. There are definitely GMs out there that want you to do a specific thing, and they should be upfront about it. No point in the illusion of choice if there should be a choice. For example when I was running Descent Into Avernus, and at some point I needed the players to get to Candlekeep so the story can move forward, I out-of-play told them - I need you to eventually get to Candlekeep and they were all cool with it. Today when I run games, I don't prep plots. I prep locations, what the NPCs want, and generally things that happen in the world (the lich is doing a ritual, the kingdom is being attacked etc.). The plot evolves from what the PCs choose to do based on all the information they have, and the backstories they came up with. This all does have to align with the spirit of the campaign though - if we're playing a classic D&D campaign where we're a bunch of heroes out to kill the BBEG then sure, mostly we need to buy into that and work on it, though I still think there's a lot of fun to be had exploring other things the characters want to do on the way. Personally I enjoy campaigns where I as the GM don't know the story. I know what's happening in the broader world, but character choices drive things forward, and can often take me in unexpected directions.
Sometimes, I think GM's enable these bad habits. Make clear up front that, if they don't want to meet certain player expectations, then this isn't the game for them. Have genuine, two-way conversations with a struggling player. At some point, you gotta let them deal with the natural consequences of their actions as a player (and their player characters). And if they won't keep their agreement to fit in as appropriate, help them find a different group to play with.
Currently running three groups. I don't keep a journal for them, rather I strongly suggest they do so. If a group doesn't... oh well, they deal with the consequences of that decision. And I help noobs learn to play the game... but I'm not going to keep reminding them about the same rule over and over for 6 months. If they die when the really could have avoided it because they made no effort to learn the game... oh well. And I don't ask my players to help with the operations of the table... it's a requirement to be in the group!
If there is a player you're struggling with, you can 1) try to change them 2) change yourself (adapt/get over it) or 3) ask them to leave. But whatever you do, don't just let things keep going and be p*ssed about it. Life is too short.
DMing is like herding cats. Cats without training. Cats without training who want to do anything but be herded.
It's often quite literally a thankless task.
Players, help us out. We're begging you.
All I want are player who want to be there as much as I do, give me that and I’m happy.
If I, the DM, give a spot in the world to do something with, please don't just handwave it to everyone else to figure out
*Try* to care about the NPCs
Please at least read the part of the book that pertains to your PC, such as your class/subclass, instead of just expecting the DM to recite it constantly
Don't boil down other PC's big backstory scenes to a wet fart of a joke
If you're given a rare magic item, but it's not exactly the one you wanted, please don't then never use it and complain you get nothing
And I cannot stress enough, if your DM gives you a major plot beforehand, try and give your character a reason to care so that after 6+ months of the DM trying to tie your PC into stuff you don't just shrug and leave
Advice from a pro-DM whose been dealing with the most stressfully flippant PC imaginable
Yeah I can relate to some of that. If a player rescues a plot hook or NPC to a fart joke then we’re simply not trying to get the same things out of the game, it’s all good, we can be friends, we just shouldn’t play TTRPGs together.
Something that's obvious but somehow DnD players are the only TTRPG players that don't understand that
Not correct. I have seen this in every system. Also, to be clear easily 60-70% of games seem to be D&D of one edition or another so there is no good comparison just using the game they are playing. ((In my experience the worst game table for this was a Rifts of you are going by system))
I think it’s just that most players get into the hobby through D&D, and by the time they branch out to other systems they are more experienced players.
@@polyhedron3386 IF, the branch out to other systems, IF!