The rise of muscle mommies🏋️♀️
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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This video is adapted from a section of my BOOK COLLAPSE FEMINISM!! You can get it everywhere but if you want to buy a copy, please prioritise indie bookshops xx
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for all the women who feel curious about lifting weights, bodybuilding and putting on more muscle: it truly revolutionises one's relationships with her own body. It has been very profound for me, after a lifetime of ED and dissociating from my own body to make sure I was attractive enough for men. Also, highly recommend the book "lifting heavy things"
it has definitely made me stronger; otherwise skinny kid.
How does someone who has no space/money and low confidence/motivation get into this? I can bring myself to dance and stretch most days a week, but weights beyond a light jug or 2l bottle make me feel like I'm having panic attacks or being crushed by depressive anvils--what is that? How can one push through those feelings? Does it get better after those waves, and if so after how long? Sorry for all the questions, I just am very torn on whether or not to keep attempting weights, not knowing whether I'll break through the long tunnel of bad feelings about it eventually or not.
@@pendafen7405 OH MY GOD. you know what I have exactly that for you. DISCALIMER though I still do not lift weight. Cause i was used to doing cardio but i could not lift weight. I am the same person as you in what you described in the first line. though exercise has made a major difference in my deamnour. I started doing pushups in october before that i could not do one pushup. I can not do streching or cardio becuase i find it broing or dare i say not stimulating enough. i stared with half pushups by putting my knees on ground or any soft suface as your bed and doing pushups and it slowly improved to where i could 80 pushups with breaks and i left pushups many times and did bare minimum some days but remembering to just show up made the greatest difference. I was extremely skinny and just in tow months i have strenghtedn my shoulders and arms. it improved so many things in my life. JUST TAKING A STEP; DOING ONE PUSHUP; READING JUST ONE PAGE; SHOWING UP. I ma reading a book about kaizen and it is so effective for someone like me who has failed to accomplish goals so many times. There is guy named ruff on youtube should definitely check out his videos they are the only effective thing on youtube. I did pushups and squats and for me it has strengthend my mind and body nad my habit of working out. i recently downloaded this book by charles benson and you should download it too and know more about his story and cuase that guy was is jail and he is fit as hell.
i do not know if this question was for me but seeing the first line made me relate so much and gave so much energy. you can ask me anything.@@pendafen7405
Start with the weight you're able to use. Count your repetitions. Two days later do a higher number of repetitions. Keep making each set of reps longer until you've doubled the number in each set. Then add just a little weight, and start the rep count again with the same number you used for your beginning weight. Progress reps again, add just a little weight again with the same starting rep count, etc. Be patient. Be consistent. I wish you enjoyment and strength progress.
I think it’s also interesting to point out that these gender norms being broken is always only allowed when men deem it to be attractive. LeanBeefPatty isn’t just popular because she’s breaking gender norms. It’s because men think she’s hot. (Which she most definitely is)
Men just think she's hot and it doesn't mean anything about breaking gender norms.
Is there anything wrong in thinking she's hot?
@@qretan3750 of course not, that wasn’t the point of my comment.. i said so myself.
That is very true honestly…the women who exhibit the “undesirable” masculine traits like a flat chest, a flat rear, and body hair receive mostly negative comments from men, but women can be more muscular so as long as they keep the “desirable” feminine body parts. And coming from someone who used to follow fitness influencers at their peak for a long time, the content was and remains largely controlled by men and the male gaze. It’s not uncommon for women to flourish in the fitness world and for the men to become jealous and pick apart their videos and programs. It’s even less uncommon for men in the comments to pick apart women’s bodies to the point where women are driven to get procedures like breast augmentations or anything to make their waist look smaller so they don’t get those “built like a fridge” comparisons
@@CassieTranthesuperfitbabe very true!
Simply from an anti-aging perspective, weight-lifting is imperative for EVERYONE to extend our healthy lifespans, not to mention the aesthetic benefits. Really glad to see more and more women lifting.
Women lifting weights actually ages them faster
@@jackbower9087 Modern science proves your statement to be untrue. Weight lifting works the same for women as for men, it builds musculature and bone density, both of which contribute to a healthier aging process. A quick Google search will prove me right.
I am happy to debate, feel free to link me to scientific evaluated studies that show women age faster when lifting weights.
@@jackbower9087
😂 yeah ok.
as someone that grew up during the 2000s when being very thin was the beauty standard, i used to be so ashamed of my larger frame (i was slightly overweight and more muscular than my female classmates). it doesn’t help that i’m a lesbian so it added to my insecurity and fear of the “predator lesbian” stereotype.
but now that being a muscular girl is more accepted and popular now, it really helped with my self-esteem. i’ve learnt to love and embrace my muscles a lot more now thanks to this trend tbh.
My girlfriend and I met through a rock climbing squad. I'm very skinny and feminine as a guy 😅and she's (insanely) strong, but we're both attracted to each other. We each receive criticism and judgement from others, a lot of guys mock me not wanting to bulk, or her for wanting to- It sucks! This video was really interesting and summed up a lot about how I've seen sportswomen treated, so thank you very much :)
YEAH!
skinny rock climber dudes unite!
:D
I've always been attracted to fit women, I was an athlete my whole childhood even if I was (still kinda am) a plus sized dude. Like I'm fit, but not lean. Either way I also find not fit women attractive
I think that body type is under-represented in modern media.
Living my dream. Hoping to find a woman that climbs, my life belayer lol
Lol you still need to be larger than her as a male, that’s just an excuse for you to be suboptimal
I think there are a lot of interesting aspects to explore here, like the dichotomy between traditional feminism, which is dependent on unity and solidarity and fitness hustle culture which only revolves around individual achievements and puts the focus on one's fitness almost in a Darwinian sense.
This is all very interesting in a Darwinian sense, as this is obviously just one of the trends on the road to zero fertility.
@@earx23 ey someone who can see the issues on a grand scale.
tbh I'm a big guy, when I went to the gym first time I also avoided free weights area, only focused on machines. After a while some gym trainer came to me and we did 1 full training in that free weights section... and then it was like - ok, there is nothing scary about that. I guess women have this feeling and much more social norms piled up.
Yes, probably. I do powerlifting. I never did anything else than free weights, like barbells and dumbbells. Anybody interested: Buy yourself a few dumbbells. Increase the weight every 2 weeks. Find a way to buy cheap new dumbbells or sell the smaller ones. After 2-3 months, you will have enough confidence to train at the gym with dumbbells (and soon barbells).
Ha... just the other week a (honestly pretty jacked) girl set herself up in the spot next to me and worked her way up to 200kg barbel hip thrusts. Meanwhile there was I, with 20kg on the "booty builder" ):
Yeah you guess right, especially I notice how much internet surveillance there is. I’m guessing some guys fear getting “me-to’ed”, or humiliated. I fear some random stranger taking a video of me or photo of me or my body parts and posting them online without my knowledge or consent. Making fun, or even just commenting on me in any way at all. I recently got a bike and when I was reading a book on cycling, the author shared a blog where some guy posts photos of random strangers (men and women, even couples kissing) on bikes and I’m like seriously? That’s so uncool! Some are upskirts, some shots are of women, faces included, with creepy voyeuristic “poetry”. Eugh! It’s just another new anxiety to add to the list.
But keep it up! It’s ok to look to women as inspiration and not as competition, also. I’m a tall woman, blue collar worker, and I work out regularly, whether I look it or not, I’m fit. It’s very energy-draining with alllll the stuff I have to deal with as a woman to then have a guy get competitive with me. Like just because we’re the same height, it doesn’t mean you need to prove you’re stronger or whatever. No, I don’t want to arm wrestle or race. It’s such an absolute drag and way to sap my willingness to feel vulnerable and work out around them.
@@chelseashurmantine8153I don't think you should feel offended by guys getting competitive with you, especially with physical stuff like tests of strength. It's a sign of respect, an indication that we see you as a peer in physical capabilities. If men are wanting to check their strength against yours, I'm willing to bet you're strong as fuck. I'd probably lose an arm wrestle to you. That said, it can also be done maliciously, to remind you that men are still stronger. I wasn't there, so I can't say which it was.
I can definitly understand that. I'm a man close to 40 now and I started working out when I was... I think 16 ? So I'm no stranger to the gym, but I started work from home 3 years ago, love it, but I gave up the gym because of the change of habits. So I started over 3 months ago and even I, who workout a lot in my life, was a bit intimidated to go back in there, cause I felt weak, I felt inadequate, unworthy even.
So I can imagine how harder it is for women who have all those extra social norms against them doing it. You already have to fight yourself to get off your butt and go to the gym, you really don't need to fight other's opinion and judgement on top of it.
Also my gym have a literal guardrail surrounding the lifting area, there's basically a fence inbetween the cardio and lifting space, so it really feels like you are "entering" a space, making it even more intimidating.
U also have to acknowledge the part the bbl era played in hyping up the thicker body type.
A lot of women wanted ass but couldn’t just go buy one
True. And every other fitnessfluencer video by or featuring a female that I see is about growing glutes, not about core strength or functional full body. It reveals a lot about what this trend is really about (men who want ass to grab and slap).
@@pendafen7405 I'd say easily over 50% of everything in the world is driven by sex 😂
@pendafen7405 Are you blaming men for that?
@@pendafen7405I'm confused why this comment paints men as evil oppressors? Both sexes put a ton of effort into becoming more attractive to the opposite sex, why paint it as something malicious?
@@chrisbfreelance am blaming the patriarchal structures of oppression put in place by men, not individual men such as yourselves. Taking it personally helps no-one. It's all our responsibility to dismantle this damaging outdating restrictive social order--that hurts men as well as women, btw--so we can be free human beings again.
I love this acceptance of women with muscles. I worked exclusively on glutes and legs for years because that’s how every other gym girl worked out. I always hated how my body looked back then. I only started to love my body when I started working on my arms/upper body. Now my body feels more proportionate and I love the look of it. I also feel more accomplished because I can actually see a huge difference 🥲
yea maybe i'm lavking in working my upper body too. i'm too focused on working out my glutes but when i'm met facing my back, it's so lame like no definition at all and just all azz
As a lesbian i was so disappointed when i found out that this muscle mommy content is in fact not targeted at lesbians
I am a effeminate gay "man", but I don't even understand why gym makes you feel good for any gender or sex. Like all you do is get sweaty and develop muscles. Like I would so much love to be athletic and in fact have been extremely athletic if it involved hiking, trekking and climbing. But maybe I'm just an introverted nature lover ig
I showed one muscle mommy video to my brother and he talked about this girl in a very typical manly way. Its cool muscles are being normalised for girls but i kinda wish guys didn't see them.
@@gaeigyou could say the same about everything in my opinion. People just like sports and acheving some goals
@@FilipGustawWojcik I don't know how to express it but I also feel that gym training is like minmaxing sports, taking all the mentally stimulating, fun part out, leaving just the physical aspect, but maybe is just me that doesn't get it
@@sup_1312it's very up to the person I think, for me it's really fun.
And because in the gym you don't spend most of the time doing exercises but getting ready or resting between them, it could be more about mindset and mental processes than in other sports. Atleast I experience it that way
I love that women can be muscular and still be feminine… or not. Crafting a body that looks and feels good isnt just for guys. For me, that dedication to improve one’s self FOR themself is what is so impressive. Hard work and determination is just plain sexy no matter who you are.
Go to ask. Is having a sexy ass IG account "just for yourself", or to market yourself? Maybe to quench the thirst for attention.
There is also a MAJOR racialised element to this, especially in Serena’s case.
Like if you compare Sharapova and Venus. Both are tall and thin, but Sharapova is considered sexier. I think you would want to compare Serena to someone like Jennifer Capriati or Sam Stosur.
Well, Sharapova is objectively prettier. Not because she's white but just based on facial structure.
@@thelostcosmonaut5555"objectively pretty" is an oxymoron
@@ignacio3460 true, then I'd like to revise my statement by saying she is more traditionally appealing. However, I could be wrong.
@@thelostcosmonaut5555 according to whose traditions? Eurocentric beauty standards i.e. whiteness.
yes !!! so happy you've mentioned natacha, she's the main reason i built up the courage to start lifting weights. similar to you, i grew up playing competitive tennis. at 18, after deciding to not play in college, i found myself doing blogilates workout and a lot of spinning classes. i didnt feel satisfied and i never felt like i was able to achieve the look of these slim influencers. i had the desire to feel strong, but was also scared of looking "too strong"... natacha helped me realize how powerful it is to be strong, not only physically but also mentally. breaking these barriers for ourselves is exciting and also very fun. hope your journey is going well and that you feel stronger and stronger every day !
I know pro wrestling isn't popular in France but i think someone who is probably pretty influential in popularizing the concept of muscle mommies right now is Rhea Ripley. Current WWE women's champion and has 3.2 million followers on instagram. She's also referred to as mami or mommy by her onscreen partner, I'm sure in 5 to 15 years a lot of muscled and fit woimen will cite her as an influence.
Great example. I strongly feel that wrestling as a whole has a lot of great promise for body positivity. WWE tends to still have "hot" female stars but in AEW you have women of all shapes and sizes being lifted up as great characters. Them being attractive is just a cherry on top and not their whole deal (which I believe is not as prevalent in WWE anymore, too)
What gets me is how sexualized this term has become (or always was lmao), and how okay people are with randomly making comments like 'sTEP ON ME MOMMY' to muscular women just existing. Its often perceived as less bad as it puts the woman in the dominant position, but its still perverse and uncomfortable
I wouldn't be surprised that those TYPE of comments would be made regardless of fitness, but because regular photo in swimsuit doesn't open any routes for writing those comments? What I mean by that is writing "nice 🍑" is so plain that even those commenters don't bother
Yep, just because somethings seems like something, doesn't mean it is. Alice do suffers from these kind of assumptions all the time. It is necessary to stop and reflect on every single possibility.
I mean... that goes both ways. The comments on muscular men are not any less sexualised. Always things about wanting to have their backs broken and things like that....
It kinda feels like, from my own experiences, that people who wouldn't normally make sexual comments WILL make "step on me mommy" comments. I think it's cause they feel like it's not degrading in the way other sexual comments are.
@@goosewithagibus I mean personally I don't see them as that sexual? I perceived it more like admiration with sexual undertones than as sexual interest with admiration undertones.
Something that I would like to emphasize is that in the case of Serena Williams, it's not only sexism but also racism that is at play here. In France where I'm from, black women, even very feminine ones like Aya Nakamura, are often compared to men (or to black footballers on social media). Maybe because we are generally taller and more muscular than the average white girl, but mostly because of racism. And I think Serena was exposed to a lot of "misogynoir" (the combination of racism and sexism).
In the US, at least, Black men are actually shorter on average than white men, but because Black people are seen as strong and frightening, people tend to think the opposite is true. While Afro-descended people in France come from different ethnic groups than most Black-Americans, so I guess it's possible that the heights are different, I suspect the same thing is happening there.
Think this misses the fact that 'mommy' is a sexualised term from a usually male perspective. It's only been normalised because it's attractive/sexually interesting. Not sure this is as progressive as it looks on the face of it.
It's sure as hell better than Pilates almond moms. Pilates came back as Y2k aesthetic came back. It's not a coincidence. Strength training is crucial for women to prevent bone thinning and mobility issues later in life
Women started it first from using ‘daddy’ in that way lmao. You need to stop blaming men for everything lol.
@@user-go2xi7zq5q Somehow mentioning one thing is blaming men for everything. Interesting.
I always thought it was weird than "daddy" was thrown around and not "mommy" (I don't like either but heh I won't stop their uses)
So to me I saw it as a response to that, to equally be weird and incestuous for the two main gender
It's mostly used as joke anyway
And it helps deconstruct the men who can't seem to function without a women doing most of the work at home
Overall I feel it's mostly positive, but I get your point, it's still only okay as long as men find it attractive
Pretty good point. LeanBeef and many other influencer muscle ladies are definitely popular because of pretty privilege.
I'm not blaming them.
Moreso they're popular because their looks guarantees their popularity. Whilst average looking women who do put in more work aren't given the same attention.
It's still all about appeal.
I think the inflection point is Crossfit in the mid 2010s. Despite all its flaws, Crossfit always marketed their athletes somewhat equally when it came to gender. They showed female athletes in skimpy athletic wear, but their male athletes were also essentially permanently shirtless, they banked on the sex appeal of both genders. And so, they didn't hide that their top female athletes were very muscular, and the CF Games had the same prizes for both genders, which is pretty rare in sports. At the gym I go to, all the muscular women are clearly doing something inspired by Crossfit, either in methodology or in technique, and having spoken to them, they told me that Crossfit gyms are pretty radically equalitarian. While the weight on the bar might be different, the classes are mixed and everyone does the same thing. There are probably other factors, but there's no way to discount Crossfit's major cultural influence in fitness.
Her experiences are Blogilates to LeanBeefPatty and the tennis players. Crossfit in its early stages dealt with the whole acceptance of muscular female physiques. And resistance was constant. Many females would tell a coach "I want to get in shape but I don't want to look like 'that.'" Then they get excited hitting snatch PRs. Before Crossfit, women hitting heavy back squats was not a thing. Now its back squats, bulgarian splits, deadlifts and weighted hip thrusts.
"All women are forced to live under an arbitrary and unfair system, which sorts us into the categories of “Fuckable” and “Worthless”.
The solution to this is to not expand the definition of “Fuckable”."
i think the main flaw in your argument is that youre saying "look! muscle momies can be sexy too!" when really we should be discarding these standards/gender norms that kept us from becoming strong in the first place
This!!
THANK YOU!
Normie men consider "worthless" women to be "fuckable" but normie men are invisible to normie women. Normie women only care about what Chad thinks and Chad isn't interested in anything more than a pump 'n dump with women who look like Serena Williams.
+++!
Nobody said that women who some men deem "unfuckable" are "worthless" i doubt that even the men who say a woman is unfuckable wouldnt call them worthless, if they do, your dealing with a straight up douchbag.
I generally like your content but I think this one misses the mark a bit. It's great that women can feel comfortable and sexy in their own bodies but society is still sexualising the bodies of these women first rather than acknowledging their incredible athleticism. The rise of "muscle mummies" is also just shifting one unobtainable body standard for women to another. The overwhelmingly majority of women can't have visable six packs like these women do while also maintaining hormonal functioning. The "strong not skinny" movement still focuses on having a desirable body as the goal of exercise rather than the physical and mental health benefits
A MAJOR element missing is discussion of PEDs and hormones used to attain many of these supposedly healthy and capable physiques.
That's because men are driven by sex. We don't care about accomplishments.
We also don't care about accomplishments in men's sports it's about what have you done for me lately.
Jordan played in the NBA finals with the flu. If he'd lost do you think anybody would have cared he was sick?
We'll have to see what people take from it. Currently, it is probably more freeing in that culture pushes the opposite way, but definitely something that will become more and more of an issue if there isn't more cultural freedom out of it. The general lack of understanding of building muscle, and being realistic of what you can actually expect out of the gym is definitely not a good position to be in. Men are not in a good place on this account, and definitely not a place you want to end up. More freedom is good, but be careful that it doesn't become another trap.
@@snizami that isn't a gender-based issue. Infact, my presumption is that it's more prevalent in men both in and out of gyms although I could be wrong
@@gaeig it very much is in a discussion about the kinds of bodies--especially those specifically on display via social media--that are attained via PEDs. A lot of folks, you and me included (until very recently), simply aren't even aware that those are artificially enhanced bodies. I'm guessing no one's raised that with Alice either. She'd be surprised how many of the examples she used aren't naturally attained.
I look forward to the gym becoming a more diverse and integrated space. I hope that as it becomes more approachable for all kinds of people, more dialogues will occur. Specifically, I think conversations around body dysmorphia and how it is experienced by male and female presenting persons will be especially interesting and potentially helpful.
Never been to the gym, but I never thought about it as such much.
Never looked at female sports competitions for too long, but the few times I did(the polish female volleyball team does really well).
I've never have encountered catcalling by casters during sport events.
For me there's definitely been a point at which it just feels like looking at a male body(one can get ripped to a point where the chest is almost male).
There definitely been man who like that body type and that's okay.
Initially I didn't liked it at all, but to put it lightly a tiny bit of ABS looks nice.
Well I also avoid looking at ripped male bodies, I don't feel attracted to it.
Just weird whenever I see it, so I think on that basis I avoided female bodies which look similar.
Well said.
@@niewazneniewazne1890now who the fuck gives a fuck
I have two gym memberships and both are very diverse spaces in every sense of the word. Class, age, gender, sexuality, race etc. Even physical ability. The gym is by far the place I see the most visibly physically disabled people in public. As one of the few people that has probably been to both a hardcore bodybuilding gym and local DSA meetings I can tell you that the former has 10x the diversity of the latter, and a much more open and friendly atmosphere lol.
And now we have idiots in the gym like it's a movie set.
It is probably worth noting that people in general do not understanding how building muscle works, and what it takes for most people to get that body building look. First, you'll probably never look big. Period. Most people who look big, looked big before they ever put on muscle. It is possible to focus on bulk when lifting, but you really have to know what you are doing for that to happen. Most, if not all, people to bulk for body building or strongman bodies are using Performance Enhancing Drugs or PEDs. You can never be sure though. Some people won the genetic jackpot, and can look like a body builder naturally, but you probably aren't that person.
Leanbeefpatty was one of the reasons that made me think that yes women can weight lift and still look pretty and feminine in their own way!
It's been 4 months since I started I developed alot of muscles I also feel more and more confident in my body
As an athletic guy I cannot stress how hot a strong body is on anyone. I've heard so often from girls that they're afraid to overtrain and gain too much muscle, and I always tell them unless you take steroids, that's literally impossible.
It's not just the booty, either: I notice when girls have high shoulders and tight backs too, and it looks great. Keep up the good work
Whatever turns you on
💯
A girl saying she’s gonna look like a man if she starts working out is like saying I’m gonna become an F1 driver if I get a drivers license.
Yah, some women in these comments say it's just another exploitation or women's bodies for men to view, but I don't see any dirty/derogatory comments on LBP videos and if there is, they are condemned by other men and called a simp/weak/insecure. Women are attracted to muscular men sl why can we call muscle mommies hot? It discourages eating disorders, improves their health, and shows discipline, that's just a few of the ways real men see muscle mommies.
💯💯
being from brazil, I wouldn't say "muscle mommies" are a new phenomenon at all here, being very fit has been the beauty standard for forever and going to the gym and lifting is very widespread and common for women probably since I was like a baby. Now, working upper body a lot is definitely less common than lower body but still not something super unique. There's even a name for the type of physique women who go to the gym a lot aspire to and it's called "cavalona" which alludes to horses lol as they are big and strong, it probably started as something pejorative but I don't think it has been for a long time now.
Ahhh I was searching for a comment just like yours!! The "cavalona" body type was so common in the 2010s here in Brazil for millennials and gen X. Nowadays I think our gen Z here wants a "lean fit" bodytype, something more North American-ish, perhaps it's due to TikTok influencers, I'm not sure. The difference between the Cavalonas and Muscle Mommies I think is that muscle mommies tend to act in a less sensual manner than cavalonas, who have that greek goddess energy lol
@@v_vlps it probably is an internet influence thing cus even in the 2000s when the US was hellbent on being very thin we still had the beauty standard of a thick lower body
from the philippines here who is really jnterested with brazil as a whole, when you say cavalona, is it like thick-thick like mulher melancia/andrea soares? is that what cavalonas are? like tall and thick but still curvy?
@@lourainevillalon3852 yeah! I can think of a famous female bodybuilder, Vivi Winkler, she's an example of a thick fitness cavalona
Wow. The breaking of societal norms and the body acceptance aspects of this were so relatable and encouraging/uplifting- thank you! I have been going through this exact same thing- from calorie restriction and tracking my weight in the past few years, to a focus on healthy nutrition and weightlifting starting in February of this year. Gaining muscle has brought me those same conflicting thoughts about the way my body looks now (“bulky”, “broad”), and I think this has been primarily because hardly any of my clothes fit anymore and I guess I wasn’t really prepared for that to happen. But I’ve been slowly replacing what doesn’t fit with, accepting my new size, and working on remembering that clothing sizes don’t matter (just as I’ve already accepted that the number on the scale doesn’t matter), so long as I am healthy and doing/feeling my best. I also remind myself that I’m on the right track because I feel great and have documented so many healthy/strength related benefits I’ve noticed throughout the past months. And I am taking away any negative connotations associated with “bulky” and “broad” by reframing them as their positive meaning of *healthy* and *strong* - because those negative connotations have been formed by society, and I won’t be one to further perpetuate that.
i´ve seen that many guys who complain about muscular women are not muscular at all.
AS AN AVID FEMALE WEIGHT LIFTER IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO ESSAY!! POP OFF
There's no rise of anything, social media has simply given a voice to the average person's, instead of the few people who used to dictate what was shown on legacy media.
this, + women that did wrestling in the 90's like Chyna were very popular, body builders and Amazonian (xena warrior princes) women have always been loved from what ive seen since i was young , i guess the normies are catching on
Anime was my reason as to why i wanted to be well built. Martial artist that were limber, strong even at a smaller size was something I wanted to achieve. Im not really interested in gaining showy muscles but overall strength, endurance and speed.
I think a lot of what men find unattractive about muscle mommies just has to do with insecurity about their own masculinity. But instead of investing in their own bodies they attack women who they find threatening instead. They'll never know the joy of wrestling a strong woman.
As a cis-het men who dated a female BJJ fighter, I can confirm:
The kink of being treated like an anaconda snake meal is SOOOO SATISFYING...
Some men aren't into it and that's not a problem. Everything isn't an insecurity.
@@GearZNet I second this point - not always a subject is about insecurity, just personal taste.
In my case, I would like to suffer "death by snu-snu"...
I remember looking for women led online lifting tutorials over lockdown. I found a trainer who looked like she knew her stuff and I clicked onto her website. The banner photo was her sitting (looking ripped, but still male gaze compliant) with her 3 kids; a toddler, a 1 or 2 year old, and what looked almost like a newborn. The tagline was like, "Moms, if I look like this, what is your excuse?". I clicked off immediately. I don't have kids, but this told me everything I needed to know about her grift. Body shaming other (especially post natal!!!) women, is such an incredibly sh##ty way to promote your brand.
yeah it’s giving ick
Maria Kang. It was such a weird stance for her to take.
@@thejosie yeah--Maria Kang is a messy & kinda tragic figure at her core. IIRC, her mom was quite overweight & had a lot of health problems which often meant she couldn't play an active role in her kids' lives, so Maria went to extremes to not be like her own mother. She could've explored these difficult issues in therapy, but there was way more $$$ to be made by creating a movement based on preying on the insecurities of new moms.
Body shaming or motivation by showing you its posible to overcome yourself? I dont see the problem. Envy can be fuel to self improvement
@@damianalejandro6959 envy alone is a pretty lousy method of inspiring self improvement. It's gotta be something more
Oh god I remember that comment from John Inverdale about Marion Bartoli had my blood simmering over. She was at the top of her career and he HAD to bring her down a peg or two.
He was brilliant on rugby, but that was awful.
As a transfeminine person, this is something I’ve grappled with a lot. Before accepting my identity, I enjoyed weightlifting. In high school, I wanted to fit in with the guys, but I also enjoyed the activity. I felt inferior though because I struggled to put on muscle the way the guys around me did. I took a break from much exercise at all during college (another story), but since then (and accepting my identity more), I have been afraid to lift weights again. I’m now feel I’m too muscular for a woman even though I felt I was always too small for a man. This societal expectation of women was so engrained in me that I would question if I could even be trans if I enjoyed masculine activities like weightlifting. Now granted, some of my concern around being muscular come from fear of being clocked when presenting as a woman, but part of it is dysphoria from ill-fitting clothes and seeing ‘masculine’ features when I look in the mirror.
Awww be you! Lift if you want! It’s also good to be strong to fight fascists 💪
Joking aside, I can imagine it can be a scary thing to fear getting clocked but you only live once. And it’s good for your health and mental health. Plus it will help your quality of life as an old person who will outlive their endangered schools of thought. If you need a friend to tell you how girly and graceful and glowy you look you have one in me 😘
And clothes fitting is 100% the universal girl issue so 🤷♀️ it’s a struggle either way right? Though I do not know what it’s like to have dysphoria, and it’s not something you can shrug away, this is your life. And if something makes you happy, and it harms no one, that’s totally enough of a reason to do it. You deserve to feel and look your best. Plus I bet there’s going to be content out here eventually for weight-lifting to help build muscles for feminine shape for trans bodies so hang in there and it’ll show up if it’s not already out there! I know in the muscle mommies arena, there’s lots of body sculpting etc thats (allegedly) non surgical so you might just find it makes you harder to clock while also giving you that healthy rush of a good pump.
@@chelseashurmantine8153 🥹🥹 Thank you so much for the support🥰 Fortunately, on the health side of things, I’ve also always been really into running so I’ve leaned on the that for health (and just a touch of lifting when I was having some running pains that I knew would go away with strength training). I’ve been psyching myself up to get back into the weights and figured I’d start with the things that will help shape my body (aka give me a big booty haha). It feels so absurd to me that I’m scared to lift weights because whenever I used to hear girls say they didn’t want to lift and get bulky, I always thought, “1)That’s not how that works. It takes years of dedication 2)Muscular women are attractive.”
And yeah, the clothes fitting and dysphoria is a struggle because I’m 6’-3/4” and have broad shoulders. I’m slowly learning to love my body the way it is and remind myself that women come in all shapes and sizes and that my shape and size is not any less valid just because I was born with different hardware.
By the way, your comment showed up on my screen as I was finishing up some affirming self-care activities, and all I saw was that someone called me girly and graceful and glowy and it was just the cherry on top and perfect timing. Thank you so much. You’re amazing for taking the time to make me feel loved and accepted and valid. I’ll definitely be coming back here when I need a pick-me-up😘
Well, your body is a male body. If you lift, you're gonna look like a man who lifts, even though you "indentify" as a woman.
Thats it. Do your workout and enjoy, just dont expect to look like most women look. Its just material reality.
Honestly, I don't think there are any gender norms being broken in this space as there is still a very strong expectation that women will retain their 'feminine' features. If it takes men approving our behaviours to constitute norm breaking then I'm afraid it's just a lateral shift of the very same norms packaged as something different with the patriarchy still holding the keys.
There are. But many of them will not be doing social media or promoting themselves. I lift. I lift HEAVY.
The ladies I roll with at the gym could give two squat racks about what "men" think about them unless it's their man. Some of the lesbians I know that roll with us care even less. They show off their abs to tease me as I have a keg but can lift twice/three/four times what they can. We're gym buds. It's not about aesthetics for many of us, but the struggle, the accomplishment, the community, the encouragement we give each other.
TL;DR: Real gym life is completely different than social media gym life.
@@Thessalin I’m a former professional athlete so well acquainted with real gym life but I still stand by what I said as I feel it is accurate for the majority in real life too.
@ila9063 So basically, some men like women with muscle most don't. You just proved my point😜
you can't be that dense? that was not my claim in any way shape or form.@@johnbattle7518
I was talking about the fact that the expression of femininity is still controlled by antiquated notions of patriarchy. Under this system men are oppressed too you know, as they are being conditioned to desire certain supposed feminine attributes. Don't @ me. I haven't the time for you.
What does the feminine features here refer to?Do you mean boobs?But fitness always reduce it and make it more muscular
I feel like it's important to note that strength training for women should not be predicated by male attraction. As a man who's in the gym 4-5 days a week I love that strength training is being de-stigmatized for women, not because I'm attracted to it but because it's cool to see. But it is interesting to me to look at why these trends are occurring.
It's interesting to me how the muscle mommy, should we call it, beauty standard category (?) online seemed to me to initially come from queer spaces. The first time I saw a post by a very strong and bulky woman the comments were filled with heart eyes from lesbian and bi women and I still often see this, with a mix of both queer people and straight guys often writing the exact same sort of comments. If I can speculate I think this can have something to do with straight male sexual submissiveness having been a meme basically, but not purely in a mocking way, and in being a meme it has helped to de-stigmatize the behavior somewhat. Having something be a joke at first is a way to be able to express or explore taboo aspects of yourself with the assurance that you can walk back on it (a sort of reverse analogue of how fascists use memes I guess). It's been a pattern I've noticed for a while with memes about men showing some form of norm-breaking behavior for a straight man but having it be taken for granted and while maintaining other hallmarks of stereotypical manliness (like kissing your homies good night). It's hard to discern whether this has a purely emancipatory potential for men or not - things shouldn't have to be shrouded in a joke - but as a straight man I have instinctively liked this sort of humor partly for this reason.
Either way I don't think the attraction to muscular women among men right now is in any way ironic, but rather that irony has been a tool that men have subconsciously been able to use to expand and explore the landscape of male attraction compared to what was previously socially acceptable. (Again, men's attraction should not govern women's behavior. This is just an analysis)
I don’t think that’s a good thing at all. If I understand you correctly you’re saying with the rise of the muscle mommies or whatever you want to call them the typical male behaviors has also been turned upside down or reversed?(male submissiveness?) Eeww
I don’t find male submissiveness attractive at all and I think that’s horrible. I also don’t think that women working out should be for male attraction but the hard reality is there are plenty of women who do. When you have both sexes in the gym that close together performing intense exercises, sorry, but the hormones kick in, mostly for men, but women too. I’m bisexual and I find a woman who is fit and toned to be super hot. I find women who try to out do men in performance and muscularity not so much. I think most women would agree it’s not an attractive quality in women.
@@lissadawes4243 I think you've reversed the causality in my point. I didn't say I think the muscle mommy trend has led to "typical male behavior" being turned upside down completely, what I meant to point out is that the mainstream attraction to muscular women can be seen as part of a larger trend of destigmatization among behaviors for men. I also would not describe it as a reversal of gender norms, that implies a binary where you can only switch between "feminine" or "masculine", but rather an expansion of them.
I should also caveat this by saying that I don't think attraction to muscularity have to imply submissiveness at all. It's mostly just the vibe I get looking at comments of this stuff.
Why do you view submissiveness for men with disgust? That just seems like toxic masculinity to me. Your whole point seems to be "I'm not personally attracted to it, so therefore it's bad"? You can't just base your opinion on a social issue on whatever you personally find hot. I don't personally find muscular women to be my type but that doesn't mean I think it's bad when women are less discouraged from weightlifting to whatever extent they want.
@@vitlokssylt Why do I find male submissiveness unattractive? For the same reasons the vast majority of women, truth be told all women, do, because it is. You talk of toxic masculinity I see it as the result of toxic feminism. I come from one axiomatic experience. That men and women are inherently different physiologically, psychologically, and emotionally. Men are by nature the aggressors and initiators and that’s a good thing. I for one love that. Of course it can become toxic but any natural behavior can become so. To be clear Im not saying by submissiveness a woman becomes a man’s door mat to be treated like dirt. But women love to have a man lead and take charge. It’s attractive and that’s the beauty of our differences. I’m not prepared to ever sacrifice that bit of reality to whatever is the current social niceties.
I guess I don’t find women who are pushing the limits of muscularity as expanding femininity. Is there a limit to how big they grow before the muscularity over powers whatever female characteristics they have? Yeah I do. Especially the ones on all sorts of PEDs.
But I think our differences out fundamental at the root of what is natural to being a man and woman.
@@lissadawes4243 to each their own, and speak for yourself only. As a female, I find submissive men far more attractive and likeable; dominant or 'take charge' or aggressive men who assume power or authority (especially without breaking their back earning it) do nothing but annoy and enrage me. It's like shut up and get out of the way, who gave you a divine right? Then again, I was raised by a toxic father who used anger to dominate and get his way, so perhaps I'm hypersensitive to the behaviour and turned against it.
@@pendafen7405 I never claimed to be speak on behalf of women everywhere but I do claim that I speak for the majority. I stand by that. If you had read all my comments I do mention that the dominant type that you describe are the ones I say as being toxic, I readily acknowledge there are toxic male dominants. I also said that there is toxic versions of anything good. Toxic feminism/femininity, toxic(fill in the blank). Toxic versions of something doesn’t disprove that category as being a good thing. Any good thing can be perverted.
Im very and truly sorry about your experience with your father. A father is our first experience with masculinity and if that is screwed up it follows us and colors our picture of men everywhere. I appreciate you sharing that about here you didn’t have to but you did and being honest that that could be an influence in how you perceive men today. Not all dominant men are that way. I know the word carries the idea of being brutal and cruel. I don’t think it has to mean that and shouldn’t. My father was not that type and was dominant in that he made decisions, with my mom, but had at times made them on their own without her knowing because she trusted him.
I just think male submissiveness is an over correction to toxic masculinity.
I'd also like to point out that a lot of what is being discussed is very Eurocentric in regards to female beauty standards. Black folk never had a problem with Serena's muscles, and amongst black men she is probably the most desirable female athlete ever. Just saying...
This!!
Naw black people were calling Venus Williams a man, last time I checked
Sadly yeah, lots of hate to her. I appreciate her as a whyte man. Pretty stoked her hubby is too. My brother did well!
But her appeal for some of us is also- competence. A lot of men LOVE women that can actually DO something.
An instagram 37/10 is not as hot as an athlete that's covered in blood, sweat, tears, and bruises but she freaking finished an Iron Woman.
Yeah kinda just underlines Europe's simmering undertones of racism lol
No this is not true. Maybe in your circles but black men and women who don’t know better have been calling Serena a man because of her muscles like…the whole time too
I'm just glad that women aren't feeling as much pressure to only do (frankly) ineffective/inefficient workout routines like excessive cardio, yoga, Pilates etc. for fear of becoming "too big".
There an intersection of misogynoir with muscular black women, Serena got a lot of hate, while being #1. Surya Bonaly was so disrespected, while being incredibly talented. Viola Davis, Angela Bassett, Cynthia Evrio, are absolute icons, who also inspire me. I think having role models , who work hard for their fitness, inspires girls like me, naturally big boned(size 11 feet), who will never be slender, that I can get jacked af, and still be feminine.
It's great that women feel more comfortable doing what they want, I'm not sure being normalised through porn is helpful though.
Why?
because sexualization of women is not liberation
There's something hysterical about this take coupled with a profile picture of Jefferson
@@milamila1123because a lot of misogynistic men see women as only sex objects, which is (there have been tons of studies on this so look it up if you’re curious) made way, way worse by porn. It essentially makes everything women do whether it’s working out or dressing alternative into an inherently sexual thing, where the same can’t be said for men’s pursuit of those things. In short porn confirms patriarchy by confirming that women are only there to be ogled and pursued sexually. Ask any of your female friends about their sexual harassment stories I guarantee most of them have at least one.
If something positive comes from porn, that’s a good thing. Better than incest and landlord rape being “normalized” from porn
As a current GymBro, I think it's based when I see women come into the free weight section and start doing heavy lifting! 💪
However, the same rules apply, ladies! No screaming while lifting and no dropping the weights!!! A GymDouche is still a GymDouche no matter what gender!
This take is interesting, and provokes discussion. However, for me this trend is just yet another reason to feel anxious and hate myself and want to hide. Never thin enough, never curvy enough, and now never fit and strong enough. Each season changes, and yet the alienation never ends. Every other online user screaming that if you don't lift as a woman you'll look haggard and get osteoporosis and poor mobility by 50 just feels like something new to be upset and anxious about. Plus as a low income person living communally I can't afford gym or a gym space, and as a depressive-avoidant I can't bear people perceiving me.
if you still want to work out, there’s so much you can do from home honestly. fill up a backpack w books and use that for push ups, shoulder presses and bicep curls. do dips on chairs or counters and pull ups on ledges. You can work on mobility as well w stretches and plyometrics in ur garden. i personally do not lift for aesthetic purposes anymore (tho i suppose thats easier for me to say being a bloke) but i started off because i wanted to look better and over time it became something i did to feel better and i changed my training to improve strength and acquire skills rather than look nice. tbh, i think working out from home (if ur diligent and do ur research) could help u develop a more functional strength than going to a commercial gym and being tempted by exercises that just make u look nice. i cant really speak on the depressive avoidance stuff, but i hope this helps! have a merry christmas anyway mate.
@@ohmygordd9426 aww this is actually quite helpful and encouraging, thank you for taking time to share your story and your advice. You're right that the aesthetic focus can be really damaging to peoples' esteem and mental health, so it's reassuring that functional strength improvements are possible without expense and exclusive commitments to a gym. Happy peaceful holidays to you and your family too as well!
@@pendafen7405 nws bud. rooting for ya!
A typical correlation doesn't mean causation case here. Just because muscular women are more popuplar un pron, is because a lot of people who had a kink with them, couldn't satisfy it in the past, and now they do. I still believe that a certain standard of women beauty is still present, and will be until the end of the days. Be careful about drawing big conclusions, specially when it comes to the kinks people have.
but the standard of ideal feminine beauty in western cultures has changed radically across the years and centuries. And today it varies wildly across the world. To believe there is one immutable thing that is called feminine beauty requires ignoring the empirical evidence.
Men and Women are biologically attracted to a muscular partner. There is a same standard for men too. There is no downside to encouraging muscular Women. Just because corporate America exploits women's bodies due to how men express sexual desires differently than women, doesn't mean it is the same toxic environment... please don't be hypocritical.
@@jamesdeclan7538 Men aren't attracted to muscular women like Serena Williams (she took steroids to get that muscular), but attracted to fit, healthy and athletic women. To get that much of muscles as a women, she has to take steroids and testosterone. In female bodybuilder contests, women openly admit that they take such risky supplements, to compete against other women.
Natural female bodies gets leaner the more they train. Female muscles don't grow the way male muscles grow.
Unnatural muscular women have usually a too low fat percentage(%). Which has a negative impact on their fertility, in the long run. But not for men. This is one of the many reasons why Men and Women are totally different mentally and physically. It's not only the reproductive organs and the physical appearance.
@@vask3863How do you know Serena Williams took steroids? I'm jamaican and every once in a while i see a naturally muscular woman.
Yeah, I think it is her race@@hainleysimpson1507
i never understand why racket sports require women to use skirts instead of shorts. im not really into rackets sports but its musing nevertheless. do yall prefer skirts or shorts in sports?
But in general woman sports (Olympics) are… weird? Why are athletes barely wearing anything compared to men. Is this required? Is this what they want? Idk
Or maybe men should wear skirts like antique Greek athletes? Shorts make men scratch their balls. Especially 70/80s shorts. Connors was scratching them all the time.
@@fabiansaerve it’s so weird. Like why are gymnasts literally JUST wearing leotards or female sprinters wearing sport bras with like panties… not even shorts. I’m sure there are many female athletes who object to these requirements or expectations.
Women prefer skirts yes. And why does it bother ??
@@amethyst034
Sucks to know that athletes can choose their clothes uh? Women just choose those types. Ancient Greeks were naked during the Olympic Games so…
The older I get, the more I realise that a man's opinion of me isn't worth shit. Whether I'm desirable or not is irrelevant to my long term happiness and well-being.
If I'm not attractive to a man, do I even exist? 😂
Being attractive to a man only matters in today's society if you want to have a man in your life imo. I mean today women are killing it financially, educationally, and can pretty much navigate society as a single women as well if not better then a single man can. Only problem is if you want to have a man in your life then ya its important to be attractive to a man. Just as its important for a man to be attractive to a woman if he wants to have a woman in his life. And believe me there are plenty of things lots of men do to be attractive to women that they otherwise wouldn't care about if it weren't for those things being important to their attractiveness to women.
If men don't find you attractive you literally die cause you get no access to resources
@@duncdunc76 nah in 2024 women, we do not care what men find attractive. Because men's standar for women is rooted in pedophilic preferences....
@@duncdunc76 I personally believe men should stop obsessing over women....these people don't know how much obsession men have towards being seen as attractive to women... instead they should focus only on themselves
@user-sm1jp4en9u Well I'm certianly not against the message that men should focus on being the best versions of themselves for themselves. The only problem with that is that if many men out there were to do that I personally think that they may not superficially present as attractive to women. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But if you are a man interested in getting the attention of women, it seems societally unfortunate that you may have to play the game. Because sadly, many women today are initially attracted to superficial presentation and behavior by men.
It's not that men find muscular women unattractive. It's the very low body fat (being "ripped") that's unattractive and also unhealthy. This goes for men too, albeit to a lesser degree (there are still many women who find that attractive). Many "muscle mommies" who are physically desirable don't just have muscle but also have decent amount of body fat i.e they are not shredded (which looks quite manly).
There are two reason for "the rise of muscle mommies":
1) Weight lifting today does not have any negative connotation in terms of female beauty or femininity.
2) Fit women are attractive (provided they have decent amount of body fat percentage so they don't look ripped).
I was thinking about this the other day. We had skinny girls, curvy girls, slim thicc girls, plastic surgery girls, the next trend is muscle mommies. And honetly, I'm going to jump on that trend so fast
Really wonder what's good in that. I'm 31 yrs old and I find muscular women not particularly attractive nor plastic surgery women, all these sorts of trends should disappear.
I never understood people who apparently only find stereotypically beautiful (thin, young, dress very feminine, etc) women attractive. Like yes, someone such as Anya Taylor Joy is attractive, but so are muscular ladies like LeanBeefPatty, or "plus size" models like London Andrews, or older women like Gillian Anderson or Michelle Yeoh.
It reminds me a lot of people who more or less only listen to one or two musical genres. Like how can you only listen to classic rock, or only to hip hop, or only pop? How doesn't that become extremely boring after a while?
I have to wonder how much of a person's "type" is defined by their own preferences, and how much is defined by what they think other people expect from them. There's an old joke that a fat girl is like a moped: lots of fun until your buddies catch you riding one.
Comparing attraction preferences to music genres is just silly.
Maybe they like what they like and need little justification from you.
Sorry to all the people that think that being muscular is something revolutionary or groundbreaking for us females, but it is really not, on a social level at least, it's just another thing to get sexualized for. I'm somewhat muscular and I will tell you, I have never been more sexualized in my life. I hate being called muscle mommy or things like ''step on me'', ''crush me''. More often than not, for some reason, it appears men get aroused at the thought of women being ''able'' or strong enough to dominate them.
I do not like the term muscle mommy, at all. And let's be completely honest here, being muscular it's only ''in'' or seems acceptable because it is still attractive to the male gaze. Not a lot of women want to look EXTREMELY muscular with a big frame and not a lot of men will think that is hot, and that's the reason that type of body is not looked upon and still a ''feminine'' frame with muscles is the thing that is acceptable or attractive.
I am all in for lifting heavy, being muscular if you want to, feeling strong and good about yourself, but I do not support the sexualization of something so personal like that. I'm in the gym community and sadly I see a lot of hyper sexualization regarding muscles in women and I think that is a bit sad.
Honestly guys can and will sexualize anything it’s one of our biggest flaws … I agree muscle mommy sounds weird n predatory …step on me I knew it was a thing but I didn’t know men have said this to u … I watch Natty Life on RUclips and he talks about bronze era strongwomen ..I imagine what they had to go thru history has buried them so check it out if u have time .the plight of muscles , strength , or just being fit for us all is a wide range of emotions good and bad ..I didn’t even know this was a thing so on behalf of regular dudes I send my apologies
Oh my god, yes queen, you're right! Sexuality should be pure and real thing! 😇 (superego)
I'm one of the people who enjoy seeing muscular women, and I love that it inspires girls and women to start working out for them, and not others, but I do find online fitness culture super weird and kind of toxic most of the time, even when it's 'positive' like this.
Even with this, while I love that these women found joy in power lifting and becoming muscular, but why is it still so focused on photo's, videos and being seen? Why is it so hard to find the fitness content that's focused on connecting with your body, finding strength and joy in it, seeing your body also as a tool for doing the things you love, and finding a routine that fits you, just being a normal human being.
I love fitness, I started strength training last year after always just training for the sports I attended (martial arts, so a lot of core, endurance and flexibility training), and I found so much joy in it.
I just wished there was more women's fitness content that's more focused on using fitness and sports as a way to connect with their body and their body being theirs, instead of it always being something to be seen by men.
Muscle mommies inspired me to start weight training. I don't have the time to hit the gym as often as them and become as powerful as them, but I did build muscle and I feel so healthy and good!
*Spartan Women where consider the utmost beautiful women in all of Greece; Ladies embrace the gym, embrace the iron, the gym is for both women and men* .
After watching this video and reading through some top comments, I got the feeling that a lot of you find straight men being attracted to women... Offensive? Or maybe "not cool". I mean, lets face it - most of the world's female population is straight, so its safe to assume that they want males to be attracted to them. And I think its great that men want women to get stronger instead of eating fat burners.
The whole concept of "male gaze" is something stupid to me. Like yeah, no shit, straight men want to look at pretty women. Just like straight women like to look at attractive men. Women also have "unrealistic body standards" for men, for example I have a lot of friends who were rejected by women, because they are not 6ft tall.
"Muscle mommies" pretty much announces itself as a sexual neurosis.
dont just throw words around and expect them to make sense
I don’t think it’s neurosis. In fact I think it’s the opposite. Where you have an unhealthy obsession with the black body in c*ckolding, You have men who seek a similar escape in power shifting in “muscle mommies.” While the other is couched in white supremacy, the latter is giving power willingly to women and “worshipping” them in their “peak.” Even considering their body shape as physical goal. I think it’s pretty clear when you lay the two out which is healthier.
@@NotsoGreat36 that is the dumbest thing i ever read in my entire life
My brother in youtube comments- don't kink shame, and as well, sometimes it's just talking BS online for the lolz.
I don't see how it's a neurosis? I just see the term as a base Americanism. Ignoring the silly spelling, what has being a mother got to do with anything?
It makes me so happy seeing more and more strong women in the gym or even women just getting into lifting, I always make sure to help a girl out who is struggling... I feel like we are too often put off by the fear of looking stupid and out of place.
There’s no one stopping you from going to the gym. This woman just makes rage bait videos.
@@AlexBrovo where do you see rage in my comment?
@@Rachel-uq1bn I meant Alice’s video. Rage bait meaning she heard a comment she didn’t like and then made an over the top response
@@AlexBrovorage baiting means trying to elicit comments by causing outrage, my comment comes from a positive sentiment (as does the video) so …okay?
@@Rachel-uq1bn if that’s what you took, sure. The video is really inaccurate but that’s just me
I think queer women have contributed to that development of populisation because we always have had an appreciation for muscly and not typically feminine women and maybe that attitude has spread due to social media. I def think we gave a lot of views to a lot of muscle momies lol
Do you have more examples of "muscle mommies" that are not white? 1/5 of the women shown in this video were not white. I feel like there's a hint of colourism where muscular lighter skinned women are more desirable then darker skinned women...
That’s because you’re absolutely right! Muscles are only acceptable on women when they can be watered down by White femininity.
As the creator here mentioned, Serena Williams has faced criticism over her physic throughout her entire career. Michelle Obama & Simone Biles also got the same treatment.
As a Black woman, i say we need to sit this one out and let White women contend with this issue. 🤷🏾♀️
Wtf is wrong with you people 😂
I just worry its making the steroids issues worse. theres been a huge increase in the number of people using them as social media has gained prominence and it just seems to be getting worse. deaths and injuries are way up to. strength training is great and, i would argue, essential to living a longer and healthier life regardless of gender, if its done without PEDs, but it seems that a lot of these trends are also leading people to using dangerous shortcuts, and a lot of unrealistic expectations.
Yes. Yes yes yes. The "supplements" that the kids are taking make me so sad. Y'all don't need that. I know getting an influencer deal is the goal many times... but... sigh... I'm old... I know they won't listen.
As a straight cis guy who does not personally find muscular bodies attractive in girls, I still encourage them to follow through with what they want to do. Everyone should pursue happiness, as long as what makes them happy does not hurt anyone.
the fact you use a derogatory term on yourself like " cis guy " instead of saying straight guy tells the whole story.
@@beburs there is nothing derogatory in the word cisgender. It just means that I'm not transgender. You can be trans and gay.
Gender identity and sexual orientation are two completely different things :)
Thank you for adding absolutely anything to the conversation. Literally nobody gave a F about this stuff ever. Strongwomen have existed for decades
@@unclerubo
You can’t be trans and gay that’s an oxymoron
Yes you can. You are confusing gender with sex.@kant.68
Scientifically speaking, people realized a couple things. Most women (>99.9%) cannot get the "inflated muscles" looks without steroids. Most guys can't get that look without steroids. The most muscular you can get within 3 standard deviations of the norm is probably a crossfit girl (think Dani Speegle), not Bjorn Hafthor with lipstick.
Secondly, IIRC, there was some evidence that the bust-waist-hip ratio mostly determined the "attractiveness" of a female body regardless of the actual numbers in inches. So getting "bigger", if in proportion, is of no detriment to conventional attractiveness whatsoever.
Whether this counts as sexually objectifying women or whatever, I won't weigh in. My gun-to-the-head impression is that men and women are both "objectified" to a point. As a society, we just need to keep it within reason. We don't have to pretend that being "attractive" to others doesn't matter, just that it's not good to fixate on.
You make a solid point regarding how femininity is questioned the more athletic/muscular women are - though it's frustrating how racist this still is in practice - the idea of muscle mommies feels like comments wouldn't be as positive for black women, given how targeted their degendering is (look at caster semenya as an example here).
First, I will totally admit that I think muscular women have gorgeous physiques. I just like the way they look. Being 'attractive' is a relative things as everyone sees different things as attractive and unattractive. Second, I get so tired of people when discussing women's sports that her attractiveness is actually what they discuss more often than a female athlete's athletic accomplishments.
Haven't watched this video yet, but I'm just gonna put this out there: May they rise. May they rise forever.
Back in the late 1970s, "female bodybuilding" became popular, and the women (some men, too) took it seriously. The bodybuilding community and the media saw the trend as a novelty, one of those zany instances of the 1970s, unfortunately.
Some people seem to have a rather limited range for what is femininity or masculinity.
The rise of “muscle mommies” is due to the recent fitness boom since 2017 where information about properly building muscle became ubiquitous all over the internet. This has affected mostly men. The algorithm though has become the provider to certain women. Hence the women who build muscle, although they are the minority in this fitness boom, get the most attention online because sex sells. People like the way muscle looks on people nowadays, aesthetically, because technology has spread the word about its attainment. This is not about “gender roles” or whatever. The answer does not always reside in some sociopolitical feminist position.
I kind of want to disagree with your last point about binary categories being nonsensical because of muscle mommies:
I would say it doesn't do anything for the binary categorisation besides finally giving one category more freedom. And that's probably a good and sufficient thing. By sufficient I mean - you don't have to be active supporter to traditional 2 gender abolishment to give more people more freedom. This fragmentization let's even certain type conservatives to support fitness (and freedom promoting) ideas.
Also one more thing: it seems that strong (in every way) female archetype is quite loved in fiction/anime fan communities, which is interesting, because that community is getting more and more diverse and very often - not even generally leaning left
In a world where the acceptable appearance and behaviour of women overlaps dramatically with the acceptable appearance and behaviour of men, where you can have a muscle mummy dating a fem boy, it does render the very notion of two genders with entirely different roles in life kind of hard to maintain. Doesn't in any way stop the muscular woman from being a woman or the femboy from being a guy. Your gender exists inside you, it's in no way affected by the clothes you wear or how your body looks. But equally, how you live your life also shouldn't be predetermined by your gender. That's what breaking down the gender binary means. So for women to do something that traditionally has not been socially acceptable to do, like getting buff. Something only men were socially permitted to do in the recent past is breaking down that artificial binary separation. After all, there was never anything physically stopping women from working out and getting big, any more than there was anything stopping men wearing frilly dresses and makeup, they were just artificially prevented from doing so to maintain the myth that the genders existed to do different things and couldn't overlap. Because it's easier to control people when they stay in neat, organised little boxes
Because most in the anime community are either very young or incels.
I really don’t think it’s possible for most men or women to get “too bulky” without the use of anabolics. I’ve never seen a women who I thought was too muscular who wasn’t a competitive bodybuilder on gear, particularly in the open ms Olympia category
I'm far from muscular but i love weights!! Always my favorite part of a workout, even though i can't lift the really heavy ones yet.
I have two things.
One I think some of the issues of muscle size(to a lesser degree) are true in men as well. When does it become to much muscle to attract women, Chris Hemsworth? Ronnie Coleman?
Secondly, we need more muscle mommies. Me and the boys are big fans. My wife is in fact a jacked muscle mommy
Serena Williams is just one of several body types I enjoy immensely, I like the idea of guys being like "I bet I could beat her at tennis!" & then her wiping the floor with them.
What I've always found strange about this is that it's well-known by lifters that lifting heavy doesn't make you bulky, it makes you strong. Lifting light makes you bulky. And it's literally what women try to use to not bulk up.
My personal preferences aside, as I have got older I have come to view muscular women to be as feminine as any other shaped woman, why? Well because women are not a monolith, humans are not a monolith. Weak humans like to control the power and potential of others, simple as. In terms of my preferences, I think non juicing muscular women are sexy, and inspire me to become more fit.
It's important to remember some women feed into this culture and want it because they want attention and they want money. Those Instagram fitness women WANT to be this way and you won't be able to convince them that it's just because of social pressure. Men are NOT forcing them to be like that. Dont just blame men for women's choices
okay... now let's talk about the high percentage of ED's in the bodybuilding community. Muscle becomes okay for women... yes we're seeing this... but the competition can become the same problem just looks different. And having abs naturally showing on a woman without her flexing could be indicative of being underweight. One of the girls with the giant traps made me think possible PED use. This is a serious issue in the body builder community. A lot of people die young. Exercise and building muscle is okay until it becomes a problem. And it's a high high problem. (Btw im very pro weight loss, weight gain, building muscle etc. I just thought I'd mention that it's not a perfect scenario)
Possible PED use? Lol obviously she is on massive amounts of gear and Alice goes and celebrates that. What a shame.
@@ronaldgmaster5782 im not gonna be angry because you genuinely misinterpreted what i wrote. "One of the girls with the giant traps made me think possible PED use." as in... one of the girls photo's that Alice showed. BIG trap development is a sign of PED use in both men and women. Also sometimes there are competitions where people are legally allowed to use PED's. I'm not totally against them, but I'm extremely pro educating people on eveything to be wary of. Including becoming healthy. Please check out more about what orthorexia is. it overlaps in these communities. btw.... its 25% of pro athletes that admitted to having an ED so this is not me just wanting to be picky and bitter.
The more muscle mommies the better. Healthy body positivity is body positivity period.
With my own transition, I an glad this archetype (lacking a better word) has been popularized. Not only does it reduce my own dysphoria, but these women are how I want to look. I’m not keen on looking like old Disney princesses or a girl boss, I want to be Zarya, Riju, Vi, or Junker Queen.
i’m a pretty muscular and bisexual guy. imo no matter how you identify, being muscular looks great. if I see anybody with muscular arms, I am like “oh okay!”
to be honest, I find myself attracted to a more diverse range of body types in women than men. in men I like builds similar to mine
Leanbeef is just another level. The fact that she has that clusmy type of humor and and her laugh just seal the deal 😍
My favorite lady lifter is She Bulk, but she's built like my wife so of course we watch her together. I think my wife has the height advantage though (she's 5'10" or 11").
I find Patty's snack/diet vids most useful, she piles on the protein the way I do while my wife is more interested in cardio & weight maintenance than bulking & cutting.
I love all the fart sound effects in her videos
@@kevinlong4657lol
This! Plus she also has AMAZING simple workouts for a ton of women's bodies, which is GREAT. So few places do that unless it's just "OMG big butts like Kim K!" I send her stuff to women looking to start a fitness journey all the time.
the large majority of men are not attracted to women like LeanBeef, we don't want muscular women.
The irony is that to gain muscle and get "bulky"a women must dedicate her life to hypertrophy, and prioritize it over most other things in life... unless they take something anabolic.
Keep coping 🗿muscles mommies are here to stay 😎
Wow, imagine being so stupid that you couldn't sit through a 10 minute video. Good news, you don't have to imagine
I think it is impossible to lose your femininity if you stay natural. When you introduce performance enhancing drugs then the 'manly' features can pop up. Still, that doesn't necessarily mean it's unattractive. I'm a 27 year old guy and have been going to the gym consistently for over 10 years. And I think it's super attractive if a woman is in shape. It means she takes care of her health(mental and physical) and i just think it looks great. I think going to the gym has become way more mainstream in general in the last couple of years so naturally that means men and women alike get better physiques and will appreciate others for bettering themselves.
The true radical critique would be that this only expands a standard. But a true marxist- feminist critique would be that maybe the standard is wrong in the first place. Now muscles are hot. What about women who have more fat like me? What about those who are just not conventionally attractive? What about women with down syndrome?
This expanding of a standard is nice, yes, and in whatever one wants as an alternative, one shouldn't fall behind what the standard already gives in possibilities.
In my opinion this is nice, but not the radical progress one should strive for
What’s your point? We shouldn’t have standards?
everyone should lift. particularly as they age. There is a misconception that will hopefully change as more and more people lift. That misconception is how how easy it is to look big and muscular. It isn't easy for most. I'm a guy who encourages ALL my friends to lift and the number of times I have heard I don't want to get "big or muscular" is wild. There is a misconception that lifting weights will automatically make someone blow up as if people who are incredibly buff like leanbeef, for example, don't put in an insane amount of work. The average person in my experience doesn't get HUGE from hitting the gym regularly unless they work real hard at it (or use performance enhancing drugs) and make it an important goal for them. That isn't to detract from the pressure of societal norms or the importance of evolving the norms to something healthier but simply to say if the misconceptions didn't exist more women would probably also lift. Hopefully, as alluded to in the vid we are seeing this shit. Everyone should lift and how important that is only goes up with age
When it comes to looks, being too muscular is like being too fat.
Some guys are into that, but most just don't like it.
Do whatever you like, but don't complain when others don't agree.
Oh and btw, this is not new at all.
Decades ago it was called female bodybuilding and they were way more muscular than these.
Believe it or not, you don't have to insult everyone you don't personally want to fuck. That's what people are complaining about, not people being silently unattracted to them. Whether you decide to act like a decent human being shouldn't depend on how horny you are.
@@cartoonhippie6610what he said wasn’t insulting, it’s just a fact, people don’t like extremes. You would have zero issues with women having an in depth discussion on mens bodies and what they like. They too btw don’t like overly muscular or fat men. That’s just a basic truth.
@@toddpacker5734 I would have a problem with it if they were going to those men to inform them of all the reasons they find them unattractive.
I, as a sportsman, always laughed at men who criticised muscular women. I'm sorry, did I say men? I meant little boys who are afraid of a healthy, confident, able-bodied woman. Plus, in my own experience, athletic women are also more persistent, adventurous and proactive in sex.
Since I started working out 2y ago and changed my physique and endurance dramatically, I started noticing that I like bulkier women more and more. Primarily, the allure lies in the respect and commitment they invest, which I find impressive and which I couldn't fully grasp until I embarked on my own fitness journey.
I just rediscovered your channel after years. I watched your first few uploads at the start of your channel, then lost track of RUclips for a while. You have grown so, so much - I don't even know you and I'm proud of you! I already liked your first video, but these are on a whole other level. Keep going, girl!!
I remember when I was 11/12 years old, I used to attend a sports program for kids with my girl neighbors, who were also my friends (we would play football/soccer, volleyball, basketball and handball, everyone had to play everything). A friend who's 2 years younger than me once said she would take a time from playing sports, because her calf was getting muscular and she felt like a guy. She was just a kid, she wasn't even getting mass, but she felt so uncomfortable by the idea of not looking delicate and fragile.
I used to play for 2 reasons: I'm personally competitive, so it's important for me to have this place where I can compete and not hurt other people while doing so, and because I was very decent and capable, I felt like I was incredible and capable. I've always had a hard time gaining mass (good or bad), so I looked delicate and fragile, but then shock people by showing them how agile and strong I could be - and I'm pretty sure being able to get the best of both worlds was a luxury that allowed me to enjoy all that more than a lot of other girls. Which is a shame. I hate that beauty standards and the male gaze always get in the way of people's happiness.
Women can be agile without being big
Great video! I think it's really cool that more women are going to the gym, not because they want to lose weight but because they want to get stronger and build a physique that makes them proud of themselves. Meanwhile I'm sitting here, knowing that I'll go to the gym later with greasy hair and flaky skin so that, after completing my lil' upper body routine, I can hit the shower for an hour and enjoy the gym's precious hot water supply. Love the thought of saving me some water. Almost as satisfying as building strength.
It's funny how you claim to be about tolerance and anti-discrimination yet you express virulent ageism with your comment, "neither are you 50 year old man."
Funny thing is that a typical 50 year old man would have much better options than Alice.
@@ronaldgmaster5782 Nope. The average 50 year old woman has better dating options than the average 20 year old man.
@@lucasgrey9794 do you realize your comment is not a logical reply to my comment? Guess logic is not your strong suit. The fact is no 50 year old would put up with Alice’s annoying voice and rambling speaking style. Can barely understand her English.
That's simple. If you wonder where is a line between looking fit and sexy and "not my type" (to say the least). It somewhere at the point when you start doing steroids.
Upon researching this phenomenon of shifting beauty standards, I've noticed there is this growing trend that sees heterosexual desirability in socially-acceptable musculature for certain types of women (it is distinctly white heteronormative cis women who are given praise and thus permission to push the boundaries of a waif-like physique--people who fall outside this narrow demographic are immediately deemed unfeminine and, thus, less than human).
That isn't to say that there is anything wrong with wanting to be bigger and stronger for male attention; it is only natural for women to want to increase their social capital where they are otherwise disadvantaged. My only concern is that this fixation on becoming a "muscle mommy" can lead to very harmful practices (such as uninformed steroid use since the physiques of AFABs very rarely reach Leanbeefpatty's level without several years of lifting, a strict diet, and winning the genetic lottery). I'm not sure if this is better (or even that much healthier) than the "baddy" archetype we saw in the 2010s and early 2020s.
Do you always speak in nonsense made up woke words?
The greatest part to me is that this also works in verse, at least for me. I'm a dude who even in their teens had pretty big ''show muscles'' and generally had that stereotypical male physique but the thing is, it wasn't something I was chasing, it was pure genetics and lifestyle. In my mid to late teens I really started to delve into all corners of fitness and started seeing value in a lot of what would be considered non dude exercise - cardio, bodyweight workouts, yoga etc. I'm in my 30's now and having had 3 major surgeries on my stomach, needless to say, my workout goals and generally just what's practical for me is very different yet, I'm stronger and more healthy than I've ever been.
Another interesting thing is that, I've always been ''that really big dude'' to all my friends and acquaintances - so now that I'm down to 180lbs (I'm 6ft), if I wear a baggy tshirt or something, I have what people refer to as a ''sleeper build'', so I'd often get comments like ''yo you're looking really skinny'' or ''I kinda like beefy you more'' etc. Now, these aren't comments with any mal intent at all (or rather, adding to it, I never really cared what my body looked like, I was always more concerned in what it was capable of and how it felt) and the fact is, if I do take off my shirt yea, I have muscles all over - it's just what my body tends to genetically. But the actual content of my workout is highly unconventional. I still do bodyweight training, I still do lots of flexibility work (or I call it a soft yoga style work) and I still jog a lot (and do other cardio vascular style training). But for me, I never really delineated what was considered masculine or feminine training until I started seeing videos discussing the topics. I'd say a large portion of the fitness industry is dominated by a bodybuilding centric lens but the realm of fitness is VAST.
I know this is a video far more concerned with what is and isn't considered feminine and what women should be ''allowed'' to pursue, but I just wanted to throw my hat in the ring because I feel by the same token, a lot of guys are far too concerned with what's considered masculine and what they need to look like. I fully agree with the sentiment that fitness/health should be far more about how an individual FEELS vs how they look. I'm not shredded or anything, but I do have a body that probably looks conventionally masculine (especially if I wear a tighter shirt or I suppose no shirt at all), but the thing is, I genuinely tried to steer clear of those ideas because it never meshed with what I wanted out of fitness. I was always far more concerned about performance and longevity and I workout my weaknesses FAR more than I work on my strengths (my body just happens to mirror conventions, but again, that's just genetics). So maybe I'm just on the greener side of the grass so it was something I never had to grapple with (the idea of not being muscular enough that is), but while I was always very active I was definitely overweight and had to deal with that body dysmorphia just the same. I think I just had my own journey to take where I let go of caring what others thought about my body and just really hone in on what ''I'' wanted and in doing so, I just got the best of both worlds, but honestly, if my training just made me look like a skinny dude, I really wouldn't care if I still had my body free of pain and the ability to generate strength in ways that I find necessary for my lifestyle etc.
I suppose it just comes down to the fact that there's just this flood of information online and a lot of pretty bad faith influencers that reinforce really harmful gender norms (whether consciously or not - the former obviously being problematic) and the few voices that don't are just in the minority. I'm glad though that the world is slowly tending to better ideas on this broader topic because I for myself and so many others I know, fitness is just so intrinsically tied up in gender politics and it's been so harmful and I'm glad it's slowly - ever so slowly starting to change.
Great video, I've actually watched quite a few of your videos but failed to hit the sub button because ADHD gonna ADHD, but you always throw out such interesting topics so yea, I'm gonna rectify that now lol.
This is a good comment. I think more guys are seeing there are different kinds of physiques to pursue. I like whats called the otter physique which is leaner with toned muscles. Not all guys want to get huge like a bodybuilder.
I accidentally read it as the rise of muscle commies
Would love to know who the guys were who told her that that guys like confidence in women. Confidence is probably one of the top things women value in men, not the other way around.
I feel like the surrounding circumstances of contemporary socio-politics play a big role in muscle mommies, even just 10 years ago for a man to be attracted to a woman who is strong (maybe even stronger than him) was emasculating and toxic masculinity would not allow it but today we have already torn down so many barriers with gender that so many guys are even enthusiastic about strong muscle mommies putting them in "their place" without the fear of ridicule by other men.
Because the out of norm volume of muscles makes them lose the social status of ‘normal girl’.
98 pernct of men are still bigger n taller than 98 pernct of women, don't get fooled by social media it involves lighting edits and steroids,check out natural female bodybuilders back in the days they don't look like bodybuilders but have toned muscles on a small frame .
As a straight white dude. I'm all for the "muscle mommies" as you describe them. It's bizarre that muscle mass is seen as "unattractive" or "unfeminine".
Now I'm not a fan of the way body builders look, but that applies even to men.
The thing is genuinely strong guys would never be intimidated by these muscular women because we are still bigger and stronger anyway. Guys who peaked on their high school football team and were never that strong to begin with however will get their feelings hurt when a women outshines them.
I think your take on the subject addresses this trend as a shift in the perception of attractiveness, but there is a dark side to it. Many of the women shown in your video are on tren or anabolic steroids. The perception of what is attractive goes hand in hand with what is perceived as healthy. When social influencers show their bodies on social media, it has an impact on what is considered natural or expected for someone who works out with weights. Your stance is a bit idealized because you don't take into account the trend of performance-enhancing drugs. The consequence of this shift in sports practices, as is often the case, affects the subjectivity of beauty.