In the Prog Seat: 1972 Album War- ELP 'Trilogy' vs Gentle Giant 'Octopus'
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- Join the In the Prog Seat crew for a 1972 album war, ELP 'Trilogy' vs Gentle Giant 'Octopus'. #elp #emersonlakeandpalmer #gentlegiant
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Trilogy is ELP's most linear album, featuring some of their best individual songs. Well-sequenced and produced. More accessible in a good way. Has always been my fav by them.
Another great episode, Octopus for me
In the Prog Seat is the best show on SOT! It's engaging, illuminating, and funny all at the same time! Thank you to Pete and his contributors!
Thanks for watching Michael!
Thanks Michael
What I wait for each week. Fusion fan from Australia
@@tonypeake467 Thanks for watching Tony!
These two bands may both be prog, but in my humble opinion, they are so completely different in style and artistic intent, it is hard for me to rate them in comparison. Gentle Giant is complex, inventive, and completely different. Trilogy is much more popular and even commercial for a "prog" band, but that does not make it less valuable. If I want to hear challenging music, Gentle Giant. If I want good melodies and with well-honed harmony, Trilogy is perfect.
Gentle giant is all about melody and harmony just in complexity. Gentle giant is better . They were foolish to compare those groups tho completely different prog styles
It's funny how Gentle Gentle might be too much for a first prog band but my introduction to prog was On Reflection and I immediately latched on to their whole discography before touching Yes, Genesis, anything. Octopus is like in my blood.
Thanks for a wonderful discussion. As a lifelong GG fan it’s Octopus for me, although my favourite GG album this month is Three Friends. Next month something else, which probably reflects what many say that each listen provides another take on the music. The recent fan led Proclamation video is one of the most heartwarming tributes any band would be proud to have. Great show.
Cheers Proggers. Great show! I pretty agree with everything said here. My pick would be Octopus which was my first purchase from Gentle Giant. I asked my neighbor Alan White who was the best opening band for Yes and without hesitation he said Gentle Giant. Fantastic musicians! I love ELP but GG are my sentimental underdog favorite Prog band ever.
Well if Alan White says so it must be so. Hope his health is ok.
Saw Giant open for Yes in San Francisco. A friend who attended said Giant, that show, was the best band he'd ever seen.
Octopus is a true masterpiece. GG's compositions and performances are so complex, yet so cohesive. And the kinds of music that they refer to, is itself a unique set of influences. And the many vocals - from Derek's pounding hard rock sound to Kerry Minnear's beautiful fragile voice and Phil's folky parts. Everything is perfect. Great album, giant of a band.
In The Prog Seat is one of my favorite shows on SOT. It's got one of the best crews. Very knowlegeable, very informative, very entertaining. Thank you to all of you guys.
Thanks for watching Jeffrey!
Thanks Jeffrey!
For me there is no contest, ''Octopus'' gets takes the prize. Always love to hear the views of the Prog Seat panel as they are such knowledgeable gents, thanks for your time.
Another absolutely riveting watch, thought long and hard about which album to vote for, but in the end it has to be, Octopus by Gentle Giant.
You know it’s a great discussion when immediately afterwards you want to go and listen to both albums back to back!
I first heard these two in 2005 and they were both my introduction records to the respective bands. Like them both a lot, but Octobus is my choice in the end. An album that never ceases to surprise me.
👍 thanks for watching
welp
yesterday morning I probably would have gone with ELP, but this inspired me to give Octopus another shot
and man
in that moment, Gentle Giant finally clicked for me
spent all of yesterday and most of today listening to their catalog on repeat
so yeah I'm gonna go with Octopus here
That's awesome, it took some time for me too when I first discovered them, but once they click....Damn!
Thanks for the great panel. George is my man…..
Love that comment about Carl Palmer and his looseness.
You hear his problems with straight ahead meter on records like Asia.. and Asia live?
Palmer remained an orchestral percussionist as opposed to a straight ahead drummer
Not his strong suit
UUGGHH! I hate to pick one. Trilogy would be my sentimental favorite. It's been in my life for as long as I can remember. Also my son and I have listened to Trilogy together many times during many car rides. I got into GG in 97. 25 years ago and it feels like I yesterday I just started listening to them. Once their music started sinking in it never stops amazing you. Right now I would go with Octopus.
Both albums are my favorite by both bands. Totally different from each other but they have their charms. I favor Octopus just slightly more. It’s tight, concise, and not one note wasted on it. Knots is my absolute favorite. Those vocal counterpoints are nothing short of amazing.
Always love to listen to Mr Reid.👍
Me too!
Octopus for me, though Trilogy is my favorite ELP album, Octopus is a masterpiece.
Tough one, but I go with Octopus on this one.
I like Gentle Giant more than Genesis. Way more perfect albums.
Great show, as always. Was listening to Octopus in work, and one of my work colleagues (who likes bands like Behemoth) asked with incredulity what I was listening to, as Knots played. I calmly replied Gentle Giant, as if it was not the strangest thing to be listening to. Despite Gentle Giant being a recent listen in the last few years, compared to ELP (30 plus years), my vote goes to Octopus.
You all do these shows so brilliantly!
I don't fully love any of ELP's albums except maybe for the debut, so tbh, Octopus is an easy choice for me (possibly my #3 GG behind Power and the Glory and Acquiring the Taste). All things considered though, after the debut, Trilogy is probably their best album for me. ELP wowed me at first which dissipated overtime, Gentle Giant puzzled me at first and I grew to love them, which that love continues to grow, so yeah its easy for me to put them over ELP.
Fab discussion guys. Got to be the ELP for me though, I think I've only listened to Octopus twice in the last 30 years!
Love the description of how Octopus is timeless and could have been recorded last week, assuming that talent exists still somewhere in the world.
I've never heard of Gentle Giant until I tuned into this show. I am familiar w/Emerson, Lake and Palmer and Emerson, Lake and Powell. Never heard an album from any of these guys. However, I watch this show because you guys entertain me. Luis and Ken, seriously, you need your own show! You guys are as funny as hell. 🤣Love you and keep being you😍
P.S. I could listen to Emerson, Lake and Powell because I do love Cozy Powell. Another music homework assignment😁
Thanks everyone for watching. 2 great bands, high level songwriting and musicianship.
I just have more of a connection with Gentle Giant, a band that my love for continues to grow.
Octopus for the Win!!!
Bah!
@@lasercd7851 😂
I'm with you 100% Eric. Two hugely important and exciting albums, but it was Octopus by quite a margin for me.
Double bah!
I love GG they are by far such a prog band and so good in what they do.I was fortunate to see them in 1972 and they just blew me away.ELP were a great band also.Saw them in concert also but I'll take GG any day
Funny, I read an interview with Ian Anderson the other day and he talked about what it was like having Gentle Giant as the opening act for Tull and how the guys in the band were, he said something that might be a clue as to why they never did a reunion, he said the Shulman Brothers would constantly yell at each other in rehearsals and the dressing room and it wasn’t any kind of sibling rivalry thing, it was always over the music and getting the music right. That had to be an intense environment that nobody wanted to relive.
That’s prob why they were so good . Genius has a price
@@ROMS- yeah, but it also quashes reunions. 😂
I would say Kansas was strongly influenced by Gentle Giant, to name one instance where Gentle Giant influenced a contemporaneous band back in the 70s. Also, I would argue that Gentle Giant did produce one Prog Epic-the live arrangement of Excerpts from Octopus, which clocked in at over 15 minutes on the Playing the Fool album, and is for me the most “Giant-y” realization of the excellent material on the Octopus LP.
Surprising that no one mentioned some of the similarities between GG and Jethro Tull and even more so Frank Zappa who had very positive things to say about GG.
Love this show, always the best part of my Tuesday. 👍
That was so funny when Louis asked Anthony if he was ordering a pizza, hahaha!
Thanks AgentCooper!
Thanks!
I prefer ELP as a band, but when it comes down to these two albums, Octopus wins this easily.
Yeah, Trilogy is (in retrospect) egregiously padded.
Dang this is a really tough one, both are classics, but I have to go with Octopus which is my favorite Gentle Giant album.
ELP Trilogy one of the best albums ever made!
Trilogy was one of my first prog albums, but I don't love it as much as I did in my twenties. While Gentle Giant only increases in my estimation. 'Octopus' is serious, intentional music; something to sink your teeth into and savor. GG is up there close to Genesis and Pink Floyd for me.
Fantastic show, as always.
I go for Octopus, even if Trilogy is one of the best produced albums ever made.Bravo Eddie Offord!
An interesting matchup but by bands and styles so different. Enjoyed everyone's discussion of their thinking about the two albums and how each of them concluded their choice. As a piano player, Emerson always fascinated me the most. Saw Gentle Giant in '72 opening for Jethro Tull and saw ELP in '73 on their Brain Salad Surgery tour. Both excellent. But the Professor may have summed it up for me best. The heart wants what the heart wants, and that is ELP's Trilogy. Thanks everyone for such a great show and for participating in such a large group of co-captains.
Keith Emerson always struck me the same way as Rick Wakeman. Infinitely talented but too full of himself, causing him to produce overblown music seemingly to prove to everyone that it can be done. Sort of the perfect poster boy of prog rock's excess (when it's done the wrong way). It's said that that incredibly funny scene in Spinal Tap where the bass player's arm gets caught in the plastic shell on stage is partially based on Emerson's arm once getting trapped underneath his keyboard in concert - at least I think I remember reading that somewhere once...To his credit he also plays on a Tap album
@@wolf1977 Maybe so, but he, Lake and Palmer were a helluva entertaining live show with some great playing. Still a fascinating composer to follow and attempt to play.
@@johnmichaelwilliams6694 Can't comment on their live shows as I've never seen them in concert
Great show as always 👏.
Thanks jonathon
I liked ELP back in the mid to late '70's, but I loved Gentle Giant, and still do. Besides that, my favorite eight--armed sea creature happens to be the octopus, so I cast my vote for Octopus. Back in the '70's, I had the non-Roger Dean version of the album, the one that was shaped like a jar (with an octopus in it).
Very tough choice, both stone cold classics and my favorite albums by both bands. On the whole I'd lean Octopus as I think it's just a bit more consistent and works better as a full listen.
Trilogy is my favourite ELP album, Octopus is my third best GG. Having said that, right now I prefer Octopus. Over the years GG have been more consistent than ELP with no filler/throwaway tracks such as Benny The Bouncer.
To hold you over while you start collecting Gentle Giant, I recommend their Official Live Playing the Fool album. Amazing live versions of their songs, in many cases more powerful, including the "Excerpts from Octopus" medley which still blows me away.
A fantastic discussion , I have never really been into ELP but I have slowly gotten into Gentle Giant so I really learned a lot here and will explore the two bands closer.
Think of me with kindness is the best authentic love song ever written
Although I'm from Manchester UK I was at the Montreal gig in 2015 and the 'after show party'. Lucky enough to count Kerry, Gary, John and Malcolm as friends.
I guess I must have met you mr 'Bent Knee'
An extensive discussion thoroughly enjoyed. I am gonna go with trilogy as it's my second favourite ELP album (after the debut). It's not perfect but there are songs i absolutely love like the title track, from the beginning and hoedown. I am not the biggest gentle giant fan and have given the octopus several listens, it was just a tad too eccentric and whimsical for my tastes. So trilogy wins in my book
Both albums were on heavy rotation on my stereo in my house. Truly classics.
Trilogy for me
What Ray Shulman does on bass can best be heard on the live parts of the box set Unburied Treasure.
Good package, I've got that one too
@@wolf1977 👍
Just listened to the DSD version of Octopus, absolutely sensational!!
Octopus blows Trilogy out the water for me
I think 'Octopus' is not just an excellent album but an outstanding piece of art from the 20th century. The level of craft, detail and thought put into the presentation, composition, recording and engineering is masterful. Trilogy is very good as well, but there are decisions made in the selection of songs, their order, the compositions and more that lead me to believe that some of the songs were padded. Every note on Octopus seems deliberate to me
Sound out the galleon - Anthony's back.. another really entertaining show guys, thanks.
Greg Lake actually moves me to tears, and Keith Emerson leaves me in awe. Immediately accessible music, no doubt. I will always want my classic Irish Cream coffee and a cozy fire - Greg’s singing is like that.
Gentle Giant do have their place; a parallel to Shostakovich (whose music I like)
Not even close, TRILOGY
I remember picking up Interview on a Friday.Played it that night was not impressed.I played it all weekend by Sunday night I loved it
I'd have to disagree a little with the guys in that, coming from an upbringing in modern classical music, Gentle Giant was an instant love affair for me. There was no period of "acquiring the taste" so to speak; their approach was interesting, immediate, and quite accessible. Different backgrounds I suppose.
I discovered Gentle Giant quite early, not much after Yes, Genesis, ELP and others. It was also immediate for me. I struggled much more with Yes and Genesis. In a strange way, GG was far more accessible for me and I relate that to the powerful, rocking sound. Because I have no musical background whatsoever - I don't understand music theory, I don't play any instrument and I don't know much music history.
@@einarassipavicius1991 You must have a natural ear for inventive, complex music then my brother.
Gentle Giant, Genesis and King Crimson were my pre-1975 troika, until PG left Genesis and KC broke up post-'Red'. They're still my emotionally-connected prog troika...
There was another GG "clone" Etcetera...1 good album.
Octopus easy for me.Such a unique and amazing band !
Forgot about them. One of the best Quebecois bands. Thanks for the reminder.
I listened to them last week hence.Enjoy your contribution to the prog seat.Your knowledge and expertise justify your title of professor of prog 😉👌
It’s good to know that the Hammond organ gives Ken Wood at his age. 😉
A couple of my favorite albums, nice 👍. I don’t care who wins.
This discussion reminds me there’s a huge ELP sized gap in my CD collection between Eloy and Enchant that I haven’t got round to filling yet. But thanks to this channel promoting Gentle Giant (and many other bands) I can endorse Octopus.
I'm in the camp of 'Trilogy is the best ELP album of all time', when Octopus is my second or third fav GG album. Gentle giant's standards are so freakin' high though so that doesn't make this any easier to decide. I think I'll go trilogy for now, but it can change daily.
Octopus is my second fav from GG as well, first I think would be one of its predecessor album releases AtT but they're both almost equally fantastic and for me for some reason kind of go hand in hand, musically.
A guy named Greg Stone had a progressive rock show in Los Gatos, CA, in the 1970s (a companion to his record store, the Galactic Zoo). Greg's show provided my intro to Gentle Giant (it was songs from 'Three Friends', including the Mellotron blast in the title song), and it was love at first listen.
Saw both Gentle Giant and ELP in 1977. The post-orchestra ELP 'Works' show was great, but Gentle Giant (along with 1975-and-before Genesis and King Crimson) were Top of the Pops for me. The '77 GG show had them listed as an opener to Pablo Cruise; PC ended up paying there painful set before GG b/c GG had such an array of instruments (~30 total, including the main instruments; recorders and percussion for all band members Ray's violin and trumpet, Kerry's cello and vibes; Derek's sax, etc., etc.). When GG started their set they cleared the house, apart from 100-200 of us (many of whom I'd turned on the GG). They absolutely blew the roof off the hall; my friend's brother's band were all in attendance and all smiling ear-to-ear, obviously blown away with the rest of us.
Can't say enough about the bliss of Gentle Giant, especially live ...
T R I L O G Y !!!
That was such a great show.. listening to everyone’s insights about both albums was fantastic.. Trilogy was always a sentimental album for me since it came out and I did not grow to appreciate Gentle Giant until much later
Had both of those way back when, really enjoyed them both.
Trilogy by ELP for me.
Boyz in the band💥
Love both albums, so difficult to decide but I'll go with my heart rather than my head and pick ELP's Trilogy - just because I've had more time invested in that and it brings back memories more so than Octopus does as I didnt get into GG until many years later.
Abaddon's Bolero isn't an adaptation of Ravel, but a composition on the model of Ravel's Bolero. None of Ravel's notes--it just uses the same structure (repeated tune subjected to different orchestrations in a constant crescendo).
"From the Beginning" sounds like it's going to be an adaptation of "Roundabout," though...
Enjoyed Ken's description of ELP (Gentle Giant, too.) Was never bothered by the lighthearted tunes on those albums, and The Sheriff features some of the most excellent piano playing, especially at its end. I do think the Bolero on Trilogy was inspired by Ravel's own - just a long crescendo. Of course, I think Ravel's is far superior, but I've never had a problem with Abbadon's Bolero.
Bolero is a tour de force of orchestration, but it's not really a very good piece. Ravel himself disliked it.
In 1974, I did a 9th-grade English class presentation about Classical Rock, playing Hoedown for the class. I had no knowledge of GG until perhaps 30 years later. They and VDG, would have been too much for my young brain! I now love all of them and have all their albums.
I lent a load of LPs to my creative writing teacher in 1976, and he ended up playing 'Supper's Ready' for the class. Couldn't help singing along; a classmate shushed me at 'As Sure As Eggs is Eggs' ...
I love both albums. Rick is right, the difference is that one is jamed and the other is heavily arranged. As for today Octopus wins but by a hair. Both are must haves for me!
got ti see them 5 times.. nothing better .. was at the 3 Friends @ BB king show
I've been with Gentle Giant since 1971 with "Acquiring The Taste".In my opinion this is the greatest album in rock history and i have been around since the Beatles came out in late 63.
Wow! I had both of these !
I like Gentle Giant, but I love ELP. Musically, ELP reaches me in a way that Gentle Giant does not. So for me, there is no comparison: it's ELP's Trilogy, hands down.
Love Octopus as much as all of the GG albums until Free Hand but I am going to choose Trilogy, my favorite ELP album
I still have a 'best ever' (not just prog) list that I compiled in 2000 so I checked to see what I thought then - I was surprised to find Trilogy at 149 and Octopus at 152 - when I get round to doing a 2022 update, I suspect both will be much higher. I suspect Octopus will be around 50 and Trilogy about 75. Trilogy still sounds like a band trying new sounds and learning their craft whereas Octopus is the finished article.
Some folks believe that Abbadon's Bolero is a weak overly extended track. Hell no! I love that buildup, growing intensity of that track. Living Sin kinda overlooked. Great rocking tune in fact.
Trilogy is my favourite ELP album, Octopus is probably my second favourite GG album. But I'm going with Octopus, I feel I'm having a much stronger relationship with Octopus and the whole Gentle Giant catalogue. I just find the originality and power of delivery by GG sextet more convincing than ELP trio. Songs like The Sheriff and Living Sin really lack musical twists and power, those are weaker ones in Trilogy album and are definitely lesser than any song in Octopus.
Same here. Gentle Giant are still regulars in my listening schedule. ELP much less so, even if I do love most of their music. As I mentioned on the show, GG just sounds much more vibrant and current to my ears these days.
Back in the day, I was surprised to learn my aunt worked for ELP's record company, so we ended up with a copy of all the LPs a few weeks later. Listened to them all and sold them within a month. Meanwhile, Gentle Giant was always bought shortly after each album came out and regularly played for many years. So, Octopus by a mile. Reading a book 2nd. Trilogy if I was paid.
Stephen I think your better half often says "What are you listening to ? " Lol.
I think we all have the same Lol
Take care.
Great show.
Characteristics in music that move me the most are POWER and BEAUTY. Power can take the form of driving guitars and pummeling drums, or it can be MAJESTIC keyboards and vocal arrangements. As brilliant as Octopus is, it just does not muster the power of Endless Enigma, the moving dynamics of Trilogy, or the beauty of From the Beginning. (And just as a note, I can't see complaining The Sheriff as some kind of silliness if you can give Knots a pass!) Both albums discussed here are monumental achievements and I would recommend both to fans of progressive rock.
This is a tough one because the ELP album was the first prog record I ever owned. I got it for my 9th or 10th birthday I believe, In school we listened to a bit of Aaron Copeland's "Rodeo" in our once in a blue moon music class. I saw that ELP did a cover of "Hoedown" and asked for the album for my birthday. So it's a sentimental, gateway to prog type of album for me. But in comparison I think Octopus is a better and more consistent album, so GG gets my vote.
Trilogy is the best. Epic album
GG all the way. IMO ELP was kind of hit and miss. Own “Welcome Back My Friends” and you have all you need. Especially since it includes most ofBrain Salad”. Their finest IMO.
Not a HUGE fan of either band but Trilogy is by far my favorite ELP album. The only Gentle Giant I had was the live album so I'll have to go listen to Octopus and see how it stacks up.
Must choose GG if I must. Ironically Trilogy was one of the first albums I ever bought as a kid based on the cover ar gc murphys . Virtual cornerstones of prog rock for me but the mellow ones of trilogy puts it a chin behind
I miss "the yellow" :(
I prefer ELP's 'Trilogy'
Great video.
I’ll give Gentle Giant a go, as I’ve never listened to the band. So I’ll start with Octopus.
Pete off topic, I love your jacket. Where did you get it from? All through the video, every time I glanced at your video box I kept thinking, that’s a cool jacket.
Technically, a tie. From the heart, it's my number 1 ELP album against my probably number 3 GG album. Feelings presented in the video are similar to mine, specially the "what the hell are you listening to?" that comes from people who are not familiar to GG and/or prog... I don't think it will be a second Gentle Giant band anymore. It was an accident of universe - should say, a very happy accident for us.
Ya gotta remember that ELP always meant to record things that they could do on stage, so fans would not be let down by what they had on vinyl (tape) instead of live.
I have the jar of Octopus cover. I like that better.
It's ELP best album
but I like Three Friends most. The ending is like a rocket ship to heaven.
The majority of the album wars you've been presenting this month have been fairly cut dry. Such is not the case with this one. Both are top 3 albums for their groups. After a bit of soul searching I had to give it to ELP by a narrow margin.
If "Hoedown" were the only song on Trilogy, it would still be one of the best albums ever made.
I'm going to pull a Pardo and say both.