This perfectly describes the loss of meaning I have personally experienced ever since the Israel-Palestine war broke out. With the bombardment of all sorts of narratives through different media, it's almost impossible for an open minded person to believe in anything. Same thing with the inaugration of the Ram Temple in India. Such a grand event with even grander media coverage, and I can't help but be confused reagarding everything when everyone around me seems to be absolutely certain with their understanding of things.
Baudrillard was spot on, however his ideas go far deeper than just to describe postmodern capitalism. They are a description of human consciousness itself. As you said in the beginning of the video it starts with language. Words are symbols and therefore language can already be interpreted as a collection of simulacra in itself. A simple timeless example of this can be the abstract idea of "god" or even a much more simple and practical term like "chair" for example: Let us assume I am telling you a story involving my "chair" at home. My usage of the word "chair" could be a stage one simulacrum, meaning that it refers to a real object. However, the image you get in your mind as result of hearing me talk about my chair is most probably entirely different from mine and does not at all correlate with reality anymore. Maybe what I called a "chair" in the first place is not even "really" a chair, so the use of the linguistic symbol "chair" is already completely robbed of its original meaning. Here is another simple but telling example of my own native language: the German word for "confidence" is "Selbstbewusstsein", which literally means "self-awareness". It is not far-fetched to assume that at some point in time when the term was coined, people understood confidence as the result of being aware of yourself or at least that it has something to do with being self-aware. However, nowadays the vast majority of people do not even think of the word like that. They do not even relate the term "Selbstbewusstsein" to being aware of oneself but instead they relate the word to people who are brave or socially competent, even though the people they are describing could be obviously oblivious of anything at all, including themselves. The word has essentially become deprived of meaning and people do not even recognize its original meaning anymore but have a very vague and abstract idea of what the term actually symbolizes. In the post-modern world through the constant addition of new linguistic concepts and by rebranding words and retelling ideas every symbol becomes entirely meaningless. Think of timely topics like "gender" or politics. Even symbols that used to be simple descriptions like "man" or "woman" get reinterpreted, reframed and ultimately deconstructed in a society that confuses meaning and reality with the linguistic symbols that define them. A word like "fascist" gets thrown around willy-nilly and the reality that the symbol once referred to becomes entirely misunderstood and shrouded by a mist of meaninglessness or general confusion. We are balls-deep in ever-increasingly meaningless linguistic symbols.
Holy shitballs, wer bist Du? Wo gibt's mehr von Deiner Sorte? Ich bin hier seit fast 35 Jahren alleine zwischen Fleischbots und Gruppenidentitäten auf Beinen. Wenn Du mir jetzt sagst, dass Du das Wort "squirrel" korrekt aussprechen kannst, weine ich.
I am impressed. I was feeling the vibe of this being anthropology more than anything else the entire time I was listening and I believe you made me understand why. Without simulacra we would not be able to communicate with each other in an effective way. Each time i wanted to talk about a chair, i would have to drag you to the chair, point at it and make you experience the chair. Simulacra solves this by copying the chair and transmitting it through words, in a way which is much more prone to manipulation than one instinctively thinks.
I've immersed myself in Taoism and Buddhism recently, and they are very aware of the "image" and reality. Meditation itself is grounding you in reality, and releasing all symbols. Thank you for this great video.
Totally agree. I find labeling whilst meditation helps bring me to a sense of reality. Eg. labeling breathing, blinking, thinking, seeing, hearing. This and nothing more.
Buddhism - especially Zen - is a very powerful antitode and guiding hand in "seeing through the game" of this manic, fragmented society. Avoid the strands of Buddhism though that deals with certainty. The path never ends. It's impossible for it to end. Good luck!
Highly underrated channel... As a philosophy major and someone who finds great value in the subject and the passion it inspires in me, I can only say that I'm grateful for what you do. I hope you grow and succeed so I can continue to enjoy your content. I'm subbing now, and commenting because I value this from top to bottom.
Your channel is incredible. I feel like a friend explaining it to me in a pub. You have that blend of authority combined with the wish to explain. I can tell you know your onions. You're doing a massive service. Well done!
This episode is amazing. Thank you for providing such valuable content and feeding my thurst for knowledge! It would be cool if you have playlists about a single subject, era or philosopher. That way we can binge listen to more episodes and grasp the full depth of the topic and also you'll get more watch time. Keep up the wonderful work :)
11:11 "What if we can't see the world for what it really is?" When you learn science, starting from physics, chemistry, biology, evolution, neurology, psychology, economy, sociology and geopolitics, an overall picture begins to crystalize. Information technology can be used to help you understand it. The only part that it can't do, is to think for you. And that's where your disappointment resides.
I especially liked how the video cuts off during the word 'listening' in the closing phrase "thank you for listening". Really jarred me out of my simulation of intellectual stimulation.
Well explained. This is my first video on this channel and I am subscribing. The whole idea of control and programming the mind is an old one. To escape the "matrix" is to discover the wrong belief system you held as truth. Not easy.
This man spitting. Best Simulacra and Simulation video on youtube. You have passed the leftist-audio check. Thank you for this video. The last 'd' is silent.
There is a mistake in your reading of Baudrillard. In his work there is no real any more, so in that sense people don't really have the choice between the simulation and the "real". Cheers and thanks for the videos.
But, isn't the non-real, REAL in itself? For the people in the matrix, it's not a choice, it is forced. But the struggle that ensues from being forced, that struggle IS REAL. Perhaps the very concept of Simulacra is false. JB makes the case that nothing anymore is actually real, yet everything we experience is a REAL experience (at least to us), but if everything is fake, then everything is actually real. Unless, well, unless JB and the rest of us all have it inverted. The current sentiment is that Artificial Intelligence was first developed by humans, but what if WE are the simulated intelligence, what if WE ARE THE ARTIFICIAL. JB is definitely going there, but I think the entomology of how he gets there himself, is not quite deep enough. I'm saying that, if he starts from the concept that "robots" (AI, COMPUTERS, MACHINES, ETC...) have always been here first, and they in fact created us as algorithms, his philosophy might've taken a whole new direction. I tend to agree with much of the thinking of philosophers like JB, but ALL philosophers are already fully immersed into simulation and simulacra, as we all are. So if everything is a simulation, the next question is to find out what we have been simulated from.. Here's a quick thought experiment about this to help consider this further: you are a person that has never read a single word, but here you sit, observing a person that is reading a book. Now the marks on the paper called letters, when arranged together, these letters form words, and words form thoughts, and thoughts form concepts, and concepts form all types of abstractions and realities. But you can't read, so instead, you must listen, you must trust who reads the content of the book, and then you must trust the book, but then you'll need to trust the author, the publisher, the binder, the printer, e.t.c... All you want is some basic info, but now, what's left is mostly just abstract. Everything is simulated. The books, the words, the concepts, it's all just shadows of the unknown. To learn anything, is to simulate it in your head first, but then even learning is a simulation... Perhaps, not being able to read, actually helps to keep you REAL, as you have not been programmed by books. If everything is a SIMULATION, then I might conclude that it is actually REALITY instead. As a result, philosophies that start from the inverted entomology, might be more effective in exposing reality. Reality is a simulation, simulacras are simulations, and all together they create the real. The human mind needs not differentiate existential reality from existential simulation, as they are apparently the same thing. I think what JB has done, is confused existential reality with general reality, which I register as a fatal flaw, or perhaps a dead end. Either way, the concepts S&S brings forward, are an important step in realizing many realities, or simulations.
@@thatguynicky1979 red berries, monkey see monkey do. The gods must be crazy. Its all copies of this primordial nuclear moment. After enough of that business and eye witness accounts ontop of the ensuing explanations you have copies of people doing philosophy and dropping meta fire of the gods and assorted apples of knowledge. Seems the whole racket is a megalomaniacal eminence front. Im gonna try having no answers and see how that goes
Suppose the gods must be crazy is about polarizing or bifurcation maybe. A sort of catalyst for sides or camps and everything that comes from that leading to paradigm shifts and the inability to truly articulate the last one while essentially doing the same thing with a revamped take on a dead mans fire of the gods
i´ve been anxious about this for a long time, and when i was watching this magnificent explanation of my problem, i made myself the idea that the episode would end with a good point that maybe puts a solution to my anxiety, but what i found out is that i am right been anxious about the relativity of Ideas and that i better stop being political for some time until i am ready to get back into the friend circles i am now. I think its a good time to read sitting on a bench at the park like old people... #iam22andthisdeep
I see what you mean, I was on a political/philosophy binge for a while during the pandemic and it warped my perception of people. While a lot of this stuff is true, it doesn’t change the fact that people are people who are shaped by their experiences. But what if they’re all simulated experiences manufactured by corporations and algorithms? It doesn’t matter, like the theory suggests, there’s a point where the simulation is just real, and is reflective of the state of the world. A lot of people worship corporations (Disney, Nike, etc) but at its core they’re worshipping the symbol, a symbol which has some connection to their personal life, experience, and needs, which at the end of the day is very human and real. This is 3 years later I hope you’re doing better
The whole 2020-2023 Medical/political/right versus left media narratives have actually caused families to disintegrate because people were so focused on the “correctness” of their narratives. The left media is still trying to prove that Trump is the wicked orange bad man….
@@danilthorstensson8902 Well there is. For example, one could go off the grid and survive in nature. But that is too scary a thought for most, just like the denizens of Plato's cave.
It took awhile for another episode, but this is beautifully presented and intellectually stimulating. The quality is more important than quantity. Thanks Stephen!
07:30 - Just so you're tracking, the original script that was written had a different plot device. The human mind was a good processor or something so they daisy-chain network the human mind and the machines utilize that. However, environmentalism was a big trend at the time and the studio wanted it switched to "the human body has energy" which was pretty dumb. Good podcast!
I will have to read this philosopher more thoroughly, I can see now that I've judged postmodernist and thought too quickly, there seems to be more underneath the rocks to explore, ready the spade and dig
This was truly amazing and explained so well with excellent examples. And I have just started reading and learning about postmodernism and it takes a while to make. cense partially many don’t define terms, or just explain their beliefs without a good explanation or frame of reference. Their are important things to be learned here and some valuable insights that many people should understand. But so often these thinkers swallow a dictionary of the most complex words and barf out the most complex long word salads you ever want to see. It’s like their saying we’re the smartest people that ever lived and want to make sure what we let you know it by being comes, obtuse and use symbols which are so obscure that there is no clear referent. Resulting in something other than the intended meaning copies of copies of the real becoming simulation faster than other simulations, so very few get the message. So they have contributed to the obsolescence of their own thought.
“You are what you buy.” Oh god?! That’s terrifying. Everything we buy is a symbol or metaphor for the “real thing”. We don’t buy horses we plastic molds of fast things. We don’t often buy food (berries, nuts, wild game) we buy edible products cookie cut from domesticated molds of real animals/plants. In a way all the things we buy are a rejection of what is for what we feel ought to be. We are a near hairless space ape whirling on a rock around a sun being pulled through eternity into a singularity and we are completely helpless; BUT we feel we ought to be a well dressed, shame filled, responsible, powerful, seeker of enlightenment to realize, partake, and “win” the game of reality based on (insert religion of choice). We buy things to become what we feel we are not, namely whole or complete as the frail, temporary, uninformed thing falling into the unknown. We’re an animal that forgot how to be.
Life is depressing. Anyone who denies that is diluted. Doesn't mean we can't get laid or enjoy some beer along the way. But we know it deep down. Suicide is acceptance.
the more hyper material a society becomes and obsessed with the somatic the more the ego becomes a tool to strenghten the simulation and ulitmately the identification with what is not. That is the fuel.
So ... travel to other countries (preferably Third World), read books whose authors have opposing viewpoints from yours, converse with your enemies, try a variety of life experiences, listen to Philosophize This! episodes, etc. In this way, we can be shaken from our conditioned stupor. There are ways around accepting the dystopian hopelessness some of the Post Modernists seem to imply. There are some ways out of the maze.
My parents gave me lots of shit advice as I was growing up, as well as many narrow minded and bigoted views. They did, however, give me ONE good advice that stood out: question everything.
The media is just one facet of the logic of simulation. The media is not the simulation. And to say "The" simulation is not Baudrillard's view. He'd say that there are many simulations, just as there are many first and second order simulacra. It helps to keep his Marxist background in mind when teasing out this stuff.
Thank you for this great video. It definitely helps me furher in understanding his work. The only thing I have trouble relating Baudrillard's work to is your descriptions of the fragmentation of identities and sociality/cultural/narratives. I understand your video might serve more as an intro, so that could explain why I'm confused, but when I read Baudrillard I see him repeatedly talking about the 'implosion of meaning', where all different ways of understanding reality (such as subjects like economics, politics and culture) mix together. He also speaks of a flattening/saturizing/singularizing of meaning, and the creation of a single language (these terms stem mainly from his subchapter on advertisement). I'm not quite sure how to merge this with your comments that post-modern identity is deconstructed/fragmented (12:37), and that there's a lack of a master narrative (29;08). I think you might speak a bit more literally, as in, we do not have a singular identity/story, and Baudrillard might mean the flattening of reality and unification of language, less as one hegemonic thought, but more of a grand abundance of signs and their consequential weakening and spoiling. I will read onwards and find out. Once again thank you for the great video.
What does it mean when I feel zero desire to buy anything other than those things which I need to survive. I’m still wearing the same clothes I purchased 20 years ago and conclude I already have enough clothes to last me through till I die. I have no interest in this consumer society, indeed I find it wholly unfathomable why anyone finds the need to participate in this process. Happy to wear a jumper until the holes are larger than than the material that remains.
Not for nothing, but a good example at about 19 minutes in would be when you're a kid and you see toys on television. The way they have the play area for the toys set up, you can never duplicate that. So you never have THAT much fun with the toy
Thank you, another informative video. To continue with the Matrix example, it would be interesting to hear an episode from you of a philosopher describing how one goes about taking the red pill “reality”.
Trauma aka revelation. The other option is through deductive logic. I.e synthesis of deep experience and reason- both come in degrees and no man is infinite therefore we just get nearer to reality without ever reaching it. Comparatively, though you will be far from the cave in which you were born. Don't forget once Neo leaves the matrix, he joins another hierarchy (another cave). It's an infinite series never-ending and nonlinear. You just gain a new boundary as your breakthrough.
He's talking about what B. thinks people do and saying "you", but I don't do any of those things at all, so it feels really weird. It's like you're walking down the street and someone starts saying to you "you're flying, why are you flying." It's like no, I'm not flying, I'm walking. I buy things because they're useful to me: my shoes are comfortable, my car is functional and fun to drive; at most, I buy things because *I* like how they look. And I think that's true for most people. Sure, there's a subset of people who buy stuff for the message it sends to others, but I certainly don't think it's actually the majority. This is my problem with postmodern thinkers: they act like they are against grand narratives, and then launch into laying one out of their own, one that's usually wrong and ALWAYS less useful for living a fulfilling life in a peaceful and advanced civilization.
Thanks but a 1993 lecture on this subject by Dr Rick Roderick d. 1997, last in his series SELF UNDER SIEGE. It's wonderful! A West Texas philosopher, plain-speaking, with lots of prophetic exemplars! 30 minutes, best 30 minutes you'll EVER spend.
It occurs to me that, given the modern interpretations of "simulation", a reasonable synonym would be "facsimile". This word might also help us better intuit how layers of simulation and simulacra are facsimiles of facsimiles, becoming decreasingly faithful to the original.
I heard the original idea was that the machines were using people for their processing power, not as a power source. If you think about it, humans would be a sh*tty form of power, since we actually need to consume so much.
I agree with Kara Bench, you are an excellent teacher. I have just been introduced to Baudrillard. You made it palatable and relatively easy to understand. Thank you so much. Now I have to listen to all the rest. :)
Thank you, for this because this is man's struggle towards the perception of what we known as reality, everything in a certain sense is a play on words just like that Holy Bible that they use built upon great contradictions.
Baudrillard - interesting perspective, thanks for the analysis. Folks want to live in safety and that means something different to each of us, but certainly means telling ourselves the world (macro/micro) is a certain way and anchoring to that view. Does Susie feel 'safe' not ever pursuing a skype session or in person meeting? Question becomes - why won't someone in any given area pursue deeper level information? Jordan Peterson gets into morality and emotion linkages as being a facet of actually defining our reality. Therefore, arguing with someone who appears to refuse to even look at your data seems because you're shaking the bedrock of their reality. You're actually seeing a fight or flight response because that's scary as hell to them. Anyhow, huge subject and I'll leave it at that.
Essentially the devolepement of human society depends upon the development of symbols and social constructions. Now those things are so well defined the people lost their space Forever.
I am curious of what Baudrillard would say regarding the conspiracy theories in regards to the COVID outbreak. Is it a mere difference of perspective promulgated some medias at the fringe or is it a threat to society as a whole?
I'm a Jordan Peterson fan and I find his work a panacea for the social ills of today. My comment was a joke that other fans would be able to catch. An editing artist who goes by Shamien has some light hearted edits where he makes a character named Peter Jordanson say the exact opposite of what JBP stands for. It's funny and reminds me that you can laugh as much as you can think critically about these things. Don't take everything so seriously all the time. Stop and pet a cat.
I am doing research on this to perhaps convey in a video how red pill ideology is the poster child for this concept which inspired the film they are using to convey their conception of the world. It’s pretty perfect lol and I haven’t seen many others make this connection.
We don't really know what lies beyond this constructed narrative - could it be that this altered state is starting to replace actual physical experience?
Okay, this freaks me out. But at the same time, people have always imitated art, haven’t they? Think of Ancient Greeks and Roman statues for instance? And why should one assume that the only art being imitated is the media instead of actual paintings and writings, as well? It’s not just screens, then
Seems Baudrillard's thought runs the risk of instituting another metaphysics, one not too far from that inaugurated by Plato - that between the real and it's simulation, between appearance and reality, the authentic and inauthentic, between media images and the supposed Real they represent. Against such a metaphysics it has to be said that all images and representations are just as real (i.e., are on the same ontological level) as any (more) Real they are supposed to simulate. It is better to uphold a materialist univocity of being and say (after Deleuze & Guattari for example) that there is only simulation understood as the immanent and endlessly differential machinic production of the Real. The postmodern situation of media simulation simply presents to us the current manner in which the real is produced.
![Rick Roderick on Baudrillard - Fatal Strategies [full length]](/img/1.gif)
When asked about the matrix, baudrillard said "'The Matrix' is exactly the sort of film about the matrix that the matrix would produce"
It's the illusion of duality and of a savior.
Before I even heard this “ quote “ lmao I thought the same thing 😂😂😂
Baudrillard hated the matrix movie and felt the producers completely missed the point of his book
Thats exactly what the Matrix Reloaded is about haha
@@ViVeriVniversvmVivusVici if only he had lived long enough to hear the writers say it was about transgenderism....
This very complex idea was explained PERFECTLY!! You’re a natural teacher, and have a new subscriber!
This perfectly describes the loss of meaning I have personally experienced ever since the Israel-Palestine war broke out. With the bombardment of all sorts of narratives through different media, it's almost impossible for an open minded person to believe in anything. Same thing with the inaugration of the Ram Temple in India. Such a grand event with even grander media coverage, and I can't help but be confused reagarding everything when everyone around me seems to be absolutely certain with their understanding of things.
Baudrillard was spot on, however his ideas go far deeper than just to describe postmodern capitalism. They are a description of human consciousness itself. As you said in the beginning of the video it starts with language. Words are symbols and therefore language can already be interpreted as a collection of simulacra in itself. A simple timeless example of this can be the abstract idea of "god" or even a much more simple and practical term like "chair" for example: Let us assume I am telling you a story involving my "chair" at home. My usage of the word "chair" could be a stage one simulacrum, meaning that it refers to a real object. However, the image you get in your mind as result of hearing me talk about my chair is most probably entirely different from mine and does not at all correlate with reality anymore. Maybe what I called a "chair" in the first place is not even "really" a chair, so the use of the linguistic symbol "chair" is already completely robbed of its original meaning.
Here is another simple but telling example of my own native language: the German word for "confidence" is "Selbstbewusstsein", which literally means "self-awareness". It is not far-fetched to assume that at some point in time when the term was coined, people understood confidence as the result of being aware of yourself or at least that it has something to do with being self-aware. However, nowadays the vast majority of people do not even think of the word like that. They do not even relate the term "Selbstbewusstsein" to being aware of oneself but instead they relate the word to people who are brave or socially competent, even though the people they are describing could be obviously oblivious of anything at all, including themselves. The word has essentially become deprived of meaning and people do not even recognize its original meaning anymore but have a very vague and abstract idea of what the term actually symbolizes.
In the post-modern world through the constant addition of new linguistic concepts and by rebranding words and retelling ideas every symbol becomes entirely meaningless. Think of timely topics like "gender" or politics. Even symbols that used to be simple descriptions like "man" or "woman" get reinterpreted, reframed and ultimately deconstructed in a society that confuses meaning and reality with the linguistic symbols that define them. A word like "fascist" gets thrown around willy-nilly and the reality that the symbol once referred to becomes entirely misunderstood and shrouded by a mist of meaninglessness or general confusion. We are balls-deep in ever-increasingly meaningless linguistic symbols.
Holy shitballs, wer bist Du? Wo gibt's mehr von Deiner Sorte? Ich bin hier seit fast 35 Jahren alleine zwischen Fleischbots und Gruppenidentitäten auf Beinen. Wenn Du mir jetzt sagst, dass Du das Wort "squirrel" korrekt aussprechen kannst, weine ich.
I am impressed. I was feeling the vibe of this being anthropology more than anything else the entire time I was listening and I believe you made me understand why. Without simulacra we would not be able to communicate with each other in an effective way. Each time i wanted to talk about a chair, i would have to drag you to the chair, point at it and make you experience the chair. Simulacra solves this by copying the chair and transmitting it through words, in a way which is much more prone to manipulation than one instinctively thinks.
I've immersed myself in Taoism and Buddhism recently, and they are very aware of the "image" and reality. Meditation itself is grounding you in reality, and releasing all symbols.
Thank you for this great video.
Good luck with your journey. Chage it self is inevitable
release yourself from the spooks
Totally agree. I find labeling whilst meditation helps bring me to a sense of reality. Eg. labeling breathing, blinking, thinking, seeing, hearing. This and nothing more.
I gave up meditation. Now I just notice what I notice.
Buddhism - especially Zen - is a very powerful antitode and guiding hand in "seeing through the game" of this manic, fragmented society. Avoid the strands of Buddhism though that deals with certainty. The path never ends. It's impossible for it to end. Good luck!
So basically this episode is the simulation of Jean Baudrillard's book.
Baudrillard would say that his own book is the simulation of his own book.
exactly
I listened to an audiobook of an a.i. voice reading the book, a Simulacra reading a Simulation
Lol, you might find this 1993 teaching company lecture far more relevant! Dr Rick Roderick, d. 1997.
ruclips.net/video/2U9WMftV40c/видео.html
@@susanmcdonald9088 Solid recommendation, after watching it I second Susan's opinon
Highly underrated channel... As a philosophy major and someone who finds great value in the subject and the passion it inspires in me, I can only say that I'm grateful for what you do. I hope you grow and succeed so I can continue to enjoy your content. I'm subbing now, and commenting because I value this from top to bottom.
Your channel is incredible. I feel like a friend explaining it to me in a pub. You have that blend of authority combined with the wish to explain. I can tell you know your onions. You're doing a massive service. Well done!
27:24 - 27:48. Holy cow, beautifully said. A great way to explain people just gobbling up cable news like potato chips.
This episode is amazing. Thank you for providing such valuable content and feeding my thurst for knowledge! It would be cool if you have playlists about a single subject, era or philosopher. That way we can binge listen to more episodes and grasp the full depth of the topic and also you'll get more watch time. Keep up the wonderful work :)
Thank you for this episode.
11:11 "What if we can't see the world for what it really is?"
When you learn science, starting from physics, chemistry, biology, evolution, neurology, psychology, economy, sociology and geopolitics, an overall picture begins to crystalize.
Information technology can be used to help you understand it. The only part that it can't do, is to think for you. And that's where your disappointment resides.
I especially liked how the video cuts off during the word 'listening' in the closing phrase "thank you for listening".
Really jarred me out of my simulation of intellectual stimulation.
Well explained. This is my first video on this channel and I am subscribing. The whole idea of control and programming the mind is an old one. To escape the "matrix" is to discover the wrong belief system you held as truth. Not easy.
I've been through 5 of these in a row now. And more than one of them almost made my jaw drop.
Thank you for your clear explanation. I now feel I can explain it to others.
Great presentation removing quite a bit of the common obscurity that encompasses Baudrillard’s idea.
AWESOME WORK BRO PLEASE POST MOR FREQUENTLY FEED ME KNOWLEDGE
FEEEEEEED
This man spitting. Best Simulacra and Simulation video on youtube. You have passed the leftist-audio check. Thank you for this video.
The last 'd' is silent.
Thank you very much for an impressively informative presentation, complex yet clear.
There's a lot in this that Baudrillard would reject but it's a good intro
The structure of the book is unique, one of the most readable philosophy books.
There is a mistake in your reading of Baudrillard. In his work there is no real any more, so in that sense people don't really have the choice between the simulation and the "real".
Cheers and thanks for the videos.
But, isn't the non-real, REAL in itself? For the people in the matrix, it's not a choice, it is forced. But the struggle that ensues from being forced, that struggle IS REAL. Perhaps the very concept of Simulacra is false. JB makes the case that nothing anymore is actually real, yet everything we experience is a REAL experience (at least to us), but if everything is fake, then everything is actually real. Unless, well, unless JB and the rest of us all have it inverted. The current sentiment is that Artificial Intelligence was first developed by humans, but what if WE are the simulated intelligence, what if WE ARE THE ARTIFICIAL.
JB is definitely going there, but I think the entomology of how he gets there himself, is not quite deep enough. I'm saying that, if he starts from the concept that "robots" (AI, COMPUTERS, MACHINES, ETC...) have always been here first, and they in fact created us as algorithms, his philosophy might've taken a whole new direction.
I tend to agree with much of the thinking of philosophers like JB, but ALL philosophers are already fully immersed into simulation and simulacra, as we all are. So if everything is a simulation, the next question is to find out what we have been simulated from.. Here's a quick thought experiment about this to help consider this further: you are a person that has never read a single word, but here you sit, observing a person that is reading a book. Now the marks on the paper called letters, when arranged together, these letters form words, and words form thoughts, and thoughts form concepts, and concepts form all types of abstractions and realities. But you can't read, so instead, you must listen, you must trust who reads the content of the book, and then you must trust the book, but then you'll need to trust the author, the publisher, the binder, the printer, e.t.c... All you want is some basic info, but now, what's left is mostly just abstract. Everything is simulated. The books, the words, the concepts, it's all just shadows of the unknown. To learn anything, is to simulate it in your head first, but then even learning is a simulation... Perhaps, not being able to read, actually helps to keep you REAL, as you have not been programmed by books.
If everything is a SIMULATION, then I might conclude that it is actually REALITY instead. As a result, philosophies that start from the inverted entomology, might be more effective in exposing reality. Reality is a simulation, simulacras are simulations, and all together they create the real. The human mind needs not differentiate existential reality from existential simulation, as they are apparently the same thing.
I think what JB has done, is confused existential reality with general reality, which I register as a fatal flaw, or perhaps a dead end.
Either way, the concepts S&S brings forward, are an important step in realizing many realities, or simulations.
How do I (and you) know your proposed correction is not mistaken?
@@TheAlison1456 Because it's what Baudrillard said in his interview with "Le nouvelle observateur" just google it. Cheers!
@@thatguynicky1979 red berries, monkey see monkey do. The gods must be crazy. Its all copies of this primordial nuclear moment. After enough of that business and eye witness accounts ontop of the ensuing explanations you have copies of people doing philosophy and dropping meta fire of the gods and assorted apples of knowledge. Seems the whole racket is a megalomaniacal eminence front. Im gonna try having no answers and see how that goes
Suppose the gods must be crazy is about polarizing or bifurcation maybe. A sort of catalyst for sides or camps and everything that comes from that leading to paradigm shifts and the inability to truly articulate the last one while essentially doing the same thing with a revamped take on a dead mans fire of the gods
i´ve been anxious about this for a long time, and when i was watching this magnificent explanation of my problem, i made myself the idea that the episode would end with a good point that maybe puts a solution to my anxiety, but what i found out is that i am right been anxious about the relativity of Ideas and that i better stop being political for some time until i am ready to get back into the friend circles i am now. I think its a good time to read sitting on a bench at the park like old people... #iam22andthisdeep
The relativity of ideas is exactly the door to your freedom, you just walked past it.
r/sorceryofthespectacle is your friend
I see what you mean, I was on a political/philosophy binge for a while during the pandemic and it warped my perception of people. While a lot of this stuff is true, it doesn’t change the fact that people are people who are shaped by their experiences. But what if they’re all simulated experiences manufactured by corporations and algorithms? It doesn’t matter, like the theory suggests, there’s a point where the simulation is just real, and is reflective of the state of the world. A lot of people worship corporations (Disney, Nike, etc) but at its core they’re worshipping the symbol, a symbol which has some connection to their personal life, experience, and needs, which at the end of the day is very human and real. This is 3 years later I hope you’re doing better
The whole 2020-2023
Medical/political/right versus left media narratives have actually caused families to disintegrate because people were so focused on the “correctness” of their narratives. The left media is still trying to prove that Trump is the wicked orange bad man….
So essentially we're back to Plato's cave.
Terrified of the truth and the responsibility of freedom.
Na, we don't all see the same simulations, they are also not necessarily shadows of "something".
Aaand most importantly noone can leave - ever.
Except there's no "outside the cave"
@@danilthorstensson8902 Well there is. For example, one could go off the grid and survive in nature. But that is too scary a thought for most, just like the denizens of Plato's cave.
No, it is worse than that.
It took awhile for another episode, but this is beautifully presented and intellectually stimulating. The quality is more important than quantity. Thanks Stephen!
Jose Guerrero Neri intellectually simulating*
07:30 - Just so you're tracking, the original script that was written had a different plot device. The human mind was a good processor or something so they daisy-chain network the human mind and the machines utilize that. However, environmentalism was a big trend at the time and the studio wanted it switched to "the human body has energy" which was pretty dumb. Good podcast!
Listened to this over 4 days , in bits. Learned something new.
6:03 "How does this fragmented society look like?"
Seems to me we are about to find this out right now
I came here because of the Matrix and I'm really glad I did. You have new one subscriber. ❤️
I will have to read this philosopher more thoroughly, I can see now that I've judged postmodernist and thought too quickly, there seems to be more underneath the rocks to explore, ready the spade and dig
I'd recommend Rick Roderick's lecture series "The Self Under Siege", which you can find on RUclips. The last lecture is about Baudrillard.
This was truly amazing and explained so well with excellent examples. And I have just started reading and learning about postmodernism and it takes a while to make. cense partially many don’t define terms, or just explain their beliefs without a good explanation or frame of reference. Their are important things to be learned here and some valuable insights that many people should understand. But so often these thinkers swallow a dictionary of the most complex words and barf out the most complex long word salads you ever want to see. It’s like their saying we’re the smartest people that ever lived and want to make sure what we let you know it by being comes, obtuse and use symbols which are so obscure that there is no clear referent. Resulting in something other than the intended meaning copies of copies of the real becoming simulation faster than other simulations, so very few get the message. So they have contributed to the obsolescence of their own thought.
“Bill, what’ll we do with him? “
“I know dude, philosophize with him.”
“Oh yeah…”
That's not how it is but you are walking on the path of discovery. Seek & you shall find 💜
“Never forget: the words are not the reality, only reality is reality; picture symbols are the idea, words are confusion.”
“You are what you buy.”
Oh god?! That’s terrifying. Everything we buy is a symbol or metaphor for the “real thing”. We don’t buy horses we plastic molds of fast things. We don’t often buy food (berries, nuts, wild game) we buy edible products cookie cut from domesticated molds of real animals/plants.
In a way all the things we buy are a rejection of what is for what we feel ought to be. We are a near hairless space ape whirling on a rock around a sun being pulled through eternity into a singularity and we are completely helpless; BUT we feel we ought to be a well dressed, shame filled, responsible, powerful, seeker of enlightenment to realize, partake, and “win” the game of reality based on (insert religion of choice).
We buy things to become what we feel we are not, namely whole or complete as the frail, temporary, uninformed thing falling into the unknown. We’re an animal that forgot how to be.
Sad yes.
That ending is kind of depressing
C'est la vie
Life is depressing. Anyone who denies that is diluted. Doesn't mean we can't get laid or enjoy some beer along the way. But we know it deep down. Suicide is acceptance.
He could've ended with a punchline like "...Happy Christmas"
oh, haven't we all heard that before :)
Always will be, no?
the more hyper material a society becomes and obsessed with the somatic the more the ego becomes a tool to strenghten the simulation and ulitmately the identification with what is not. That is the fuel.
So ... travel to other countries (preferably Third World), read books whose authors have opposing viewpoints from yours, converse with your enemies, try a variety of life experiences, listen to Philosophize This! episodes, etc. In this way, we can be shaken from our conditioned stupor. There are ways around accepting the dystopian hopelessness some of the Post Modernists seem to imply. There are some ways out of the maze.
Glad to spend 30 mins on this..really good stuff
The claim that there are no grand narratives is itself a grand narrative, and thus self-contradictory.
LOVE this episode! Wow.
the note you ended on made me laugh out loud, great content thanks!
What if I don't consume any sort of media driven contents? What does that indicate about my in a identity in a fragmented and disconnected society?
You just commented on RUclips!!
My parents gave me lots of shit advice as I was growing up, as well as many narrow minded and bigoted views.
They did, however, give me ONE good advice that stood out: question everything.
Lol that's great
Me too and I get so much shit for it these days
Baudrillard is the only postmodernist philosopher whom I find interesting.
Thank you of this. I've been trying to find a good explanation for my peers. This helps.
Sounds like how people live while unconscious
Just found this out and loved it. Great video and thanks for sharing it
In my simulation, this was fantastic. Thank you 😍
Awesome, thoughtful, mind shocking explanations. Thank you!
Nice job. A great jump into a great read.
The media is just one facet of the logic of simulation. The media is not the simulation. And to say "The" simulation is not Baudrillard's view. He'd say that there are many simulations, just as there are many first and second order simulacra. It helps to keep his Marxist background in mind when teasing out this stuff.
my french oral final is gonna be lit fam
Beautiful and accessible podcast. Thank you very much.
Thank you for this great video. It definitely helps me furher in understanding his work. The only thing I have trouble relating Baudrillard's work to is your descriptions of the fragmentation of identities and sociality/cultural/narratives. I understand your video might serve more as an intro, so that could explain why I'm confused, but when I read Baudrillard I see him repeatedly talking about the 'implosion of meaning', where all different ways of understanding reality (such as subjects like economics, politics and culture) mix together. He also speaks of a flattening/saturizing/singularizing of meaning, and the creation of a single language (these terms stem mainly from his subchapter on advertisement). I'm not quite sure how to merge this with your comments that post-modern identity is deconstructed/fragmented (12:37), and that there's a lack of a master narrative (29;08). I think you might speak a bit more literally, as in, we do not have a singular identity/story, and Baudrillard might mean the flattening of reality and unification of language, less as one hegemonic thought, but more of a grand abundance of signs and their consequential weakening and spoiling.
I will read onwards and find out. Once again thank you for the great video.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
Thanks for the upload love this channel 🙏❤
What does it mean when I feel zero desire to buy anything other than those things which I need to survive. I’m still wearing the same clothes I purchased 20 years ago and conclude I already have enough clothes to last me through till I die. I have no interest in this consumer society, indeed I find it wholly unfathomable why anyone finds the need to participate in this process. Happy to wear a jumper until the holes are larger than than the material that remains.
so very appropriate given our current global calamity.
Not for nothing, but a good example at about 19 minutes in would be when you're a kid and you see toys on television. The way they have the play area for the toys set up, you can never duplicate that. So you never have THAT much fun with the toy
i noticed that in the movies too but never been a problem for me
Thank you, another informative video. To continue with the Matrix example, it would be interesting to hear an episode from you of a philosopher describing how one goes about taking the red pill “reality”.
Trauma aka revelation. The other option is through deductive logic. I.e synthesis of deep experience and reason- both come in degrees and no man is infinite therefore we just get nearer to reality without ever reaching it. Comparatively, though you will be far from the cave in which you were born. Don't forget once Neo leaves the matrix, he joins another hierarchy (another cave). It's an infinite series never-ending and nonlinear. You just gain a new boundary as your breakthrough.
Thank you!!
John and Suzie...that's baseball, Suzyn.
Thank you for making this
He's talking about what B. thinks people do and saying "you", but I don't do any of those things at all, so it feels really weird. It's like you're walking down the street and someone starts saying to you "you're flying, why are you flying." It's like no, I'm not flying, I'm walking. I buy things because they're useful to me: my shoes are comfortable, my car is functional and fun to drive; at most, I buy things because *I* like how they look. And I think that's true for most people. Sure, there's a subset of people who buy stuff for the message it sends to others, but I certainly don't think it's actually the majority. This is my problem with postmodern thinkers: they act like they are against grand narratives, and then launch into laying one out of their own, one that's usually wrong and ALWAYS less useful for living a fulfilling life in a peaceful and advanced civilization.
i buy things because i like the way they look
the term is no longer "sane, or insane", but, something like... cognitively liable.. or something. Liable is the second part of the term for sure.
Nicely put.
Damn, that's dark. Attempting to read Simulacra and Simulation in French now. Hopefully this helps.
Im gonna try to read it in english, since I couldnt find a portuguese version :(
I'm reading it rn, it's kinda hard but I'm trying.
Thanks but a 1993 lecture on this subject by Dr Rick Roderick d. 1997, last in his series SELF UNDER SIEGE.
It's wonderful! A West Texas philosopher, plain-speaking, with lots of prophetic exemplars! 30 minutes, best 30 minutes you'll EVER spend.
All in all this is the great perception, that we're all living upon the dog chasing its own tail
It occurs to me that, given the modern interpretations of "simulation", a reasonable synonym would be "facsimile". This word might also help us better intuit how layers of simulation and simulacra are facsimiles of facsimiles, becoming decreasingly faithful to the original.
I heard the original idea was that the machines were using people for their processing power, not as a power source. If you think about it, humans would be a sh*tty form of power, since we actually need to consume so much.
I agree with Kara Bench, you are an excellent teacher. I have just been introduced to Baudrillard. You made it palatable and relatively easy to understand. Thank you so much. Now I have to listen to all the rest. :)
Thank you, for this because this is man's struggle towards the perception of what we known as reality, everything in a certain sense is a play on words just like that Holy Bible that they use built upon great contradictions.
Baudrillard - interesting perspective, thanks for the analysis.
Folks want to live in safety and that means something different to each of us, but certainly means telling ourselves the world (macro/micro) is a certain way and anchoring to that view. Does Susie feel 'safe' not ever pursuing a skype session or in person meeting? Question becomes - why won't someone in any given area pursue deeper level information?
Jordan Peterson gets into morality and emotion linkages as being a facet of actually defining our reality. Therefore, arguing with someone who appears to refuse to even look at your data seems because you're shaking the bedrock of their reality. You're actually seeing a fight or flight response because that's scary as hell to them. Anyhow, huge subject and I'll leave it at that.
Orionsbelt31 has
Entropy over time = chaos
brilliant ! thank you for creating this!
another episode great thanks
18:30, wherein our narrator outs himself as a Boy Meets World fan.
Thank you for your help
Essentially the devolepement of human society depends upon the development of symbols and social constructions. Now those things are so well defined the people lost their space Forever.
I am curious of what Baudrillard would say regarding the conspiracy theories in regards to the COVID outbreak. Is it a mere difference of perspective promulgated some medias at the fringe or is it a threat to society as a whole?
An attempt to creat a new grand narrative maybe?
He might just say that they are theories and do not need an adjectival description.
Both 👎 are by Jordan Peterson.
He raged the moment he heard "post-mondernism"
My money is on Armando7654. And I would wager a lot of money that they are a JP cultist.
One is by Jordan Peterson. The other is Peter Jordanson.
@@Signal_20 Looks like the third is Jorter Pedanson...
I'm a Jordan Peterson fan and I find his work a panacea for the social ills of today. My comment was a joke that other fans would be able to catch. An editing artist who goes by Shamien has some light hearted edits where he makes a character named Peter Jordanson say the exact opposite of what JBP stands for. It's funny and reminds me that you can laugh as much as you can think critically about these things. Don't take everything so seriously all the time. Stop and pet a cat.
I am doing research on this to perhaps convey in a video how red pill ideology is the poster child for this concept which inspired the film they are using to convey their conception of the world. It’s pretty perfect lol and I haven’t seen many others make this connection.
Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave” is much closer to what The Matrix is about.
this was so helpful
We don't really know what lies beyond this constructed narrative - could it be that this altered state is starting to replace actual physical experience?
God can never die, the meta narrative is eternal
@@ibz1431but the countless representations of God throughout history are meta narratives
Holy shit! I'm a postmodernist and I didn't even knew it. ¿what things can i buy to show this to the world?
No you criticize postmodernism, but they called these philosophers postmodernists because they criticize the postmodern problems
Okay, this freaks me out. But at the same time, people have always imitated art, haven’t they? Think of Ancient Greeks and Roman statues for instance? And why should one assume that the only art being imitated is the media instead of actual paintings and writings, as well? It’s not just screens, then
Who is John Galt?
I thought something was wrong with me because i always thought that a lot of what we do in our daily lives is simply a "caricature of what once was."
well that was a BUMMER
Were you intentionally referencing fight club in this? lol
Seems Baudrillard's thought runs the risk of instituting another metaphysics, one not too far from that inaugurated by Plato - that between the real and it's simulation, between appearance and reality, the authentic and inauthentic, between media images and the supposed Real they represent. Against such a metaphysics it has to be said that all images and representations are just as real (i.e., are on the same ontological level) as any (more) Real they are supposed to simulate. It is better to uphold a materialist univocity of being and say (after Deleuze & Guattari for example) that there is only simulation understood as the immanent and endlessly differential machinic production of the Real. The postmodern situation of media simulation simply presents to us the current manner in which the real is produced.
Instead of the Matrix, I think Pro Wrestling would be a great analogy
You are awesome!
American capitalism is Simulacra and Simulation.
You have a new subscriber I need to catch up with hours of videos I like that.