🔥FEW CORRECTIONS: It should be noted that I’m not entirely correct on the information given regarding the Shinjuku feats presented in at 08:12 - 10:56 section, and everything I say there should be taken with a grain of salt. My understanding was that Moriarty was simply pulling the meteor towards Ritsuka to smash it into the planet, completely forgetting the Shinjuku Tower, which was explicitly meant to draw the meteor in when it’s close & fire it into planets core, blowing the whole thing to hell, the asteroid impacting the planet on it’s own is never said to be enough exactly. So yes, I got the details of the feat wrong. To begin with, I should’ve realized that the asteroid alone wouldn’t be enough to blow up Earth like Moriarty wants to, as Fate uses real life asteroid Bennu here, a celestial rock with dimensions of 565m × 535m × 508m, thus generating merely about 1200 Megatons to 12 000 Megatons of destructive energy upon impacting with it’s travel speed of aprox 63 000 mph, which would not be enough to shatter the planet as Moriarty wished (Bennu would normally be around Mountain level, however, some claim it could be life-wiper as well, but scientist generally seem to disagree with the notion), which is why he built the gun-tower thingy, to amplify & direct Bennu’s energy to the core of the planet. This is explicitly mentioned in the story, yet I somehow managed to miss it twice while playing the f*cking game. Shows me what I know... Granted, you could argue that maybe the meteor in FGO has far higher AP than the real Bennu in our world, as it may be traveling at much higher speed thanks to being drawn to Earth by magical bullsh*t… we even get evidence of this when it suddenly appears in the sky when Chaldea’s instruments didn’t detect it near Earth moments earlier, but it’s less likely to be planetary even then, considering how the story implies Moriarty still needs the gun-tower to go planetary. Even then, this feat in on itself is kinda weird all things considered; for example, how Planet’s other Textures like Higher Dimensional Reverse Side ect. react to the core being destroyed is not addressed by so much as a word (Counter Force not functioning in Shinjuku’s timeline should not effect the textures planet is made up of). My best faith interpretation (beyond ”lol, writers forgot them specifically this one time & never again for some reason”) is that maybe the textures come undone if the physical planet is destroyed, But then again, Rhongomyniad AKA thing that binds them together into the Planet doesn’t exist in physical plane but Reverse Side as the said pin (AKA it’s tower form), so anything wanting to unpin those textures would default need to attack Reverse Side too, which is bottom layer of the planet to begin with, not the physical... So dunno, maybe rest of the textures just keep existing even if the physical planet is smashed to bits by meteor in this scenario (…which would contradict other feats in the series, see what I mean when I say this feat is unclear as to it’s mechanics)? Be that as it may, Archer Alter & Saber Alter destroying Bennu is not necessarily planetary (and I’m only talking about this specific feat mind you) & it could even be construed as an anti-feat for overall servant planetary power, depending on how you argue it. But please keep in mind that one anti-feat does not magically invalidate some 30+ pieces of evidence in favor I lined up for the video. Nevertheless, whether the feats I described for Shinjuku itself were planetary or not, it was important info to address in the video. About featuring Surtr & Zeus in the video despite them not being servants… um shut up, I wanted to talk about them too, lol. Well, yes, that is the reason, but there are also individual servants that do fight & scale to their feats, such as Super Karna & Quirinus for example. Beast Class members are not servants necessarily either (which is argument for whole other video), but they scale to Grand Class Servants directly, who are servants, so it’s still fair to talk about them in my opinion, whether they are servants themselves.
The part all people fall into this specific discussion is that in fate the planet is not just some rock, it's an entity that can shape the reality on the surface of the planet and defend itself from threats.
Yes and it's multi layered defense is what keeps humanity and the world safe that is why all of the anti wold np have been downgraded to a degree that people will assume that it's gas leaks or something so it would not disrupt human order.
Yeah planets can only be destroyed in hyper specific circumstances that don't actually mean anything or you need a primordial entity that can actually match or surpass gaia A great example of such bullshit circumstance is shinjuku where rules were bent to destroy a planet that already wasn't the actual thing and wouldn't have effected anything Yet regardless bullshit had to be done to make it possible at all even then
fate has characters that can destroy planets but that usualy doesnt happen cause gaia wouldnt allow it. like arjuna alter who is technically capable of destroying earth but gaia would prevent that from happening. he also could only do that when he was a lostbelt king because gaia allowed him to dismantle and recreate the world since theres no real harm done to it. his servant version cant cause gaia and alaya prevent it from happening. the most he can do with his np as a servant is to trap enemies in a seperate space then blow it up. the ultimate ones are also capable of destroying planets but they wouldnt do that cause they exist to protect the celestial bodies in the solar system from outside threats. there are however beings that can not only destroy planets but the entire universe if they wanted to/were left unchecked. theyre the primordials that existed befor the solar system was a thing and are classified as cosmological dead ends. theyre so far the strongest beings in fate dwarfing everything else. members of that group are the primordial mothership chaos, the primordial arc of life tiamat, the umbral star and the outer gods.
Also most of the vs debates forget about the world of the Nasu verse and its aspect and this is why I thought its dumb by not mentioning the earth has so many shinanigans to prevent every np of servants or their feats that is beyond planetary being wrap in a size of a mountain and that is kinda sad.
and because of that, there are still people who believe that the nasuverse is weak, and that no one in it has the power to destroy planets because of da Vinci's lines. others use the argument that people don't understand the author's view and so on. they don't seem to understand that it takes a lot more energy to destroy something in the entire timeline than just destroying the present version of this object. it doesn't matter if it's just a mountain or the entire surface of the planet, if it's done at all points of the timeline, the feat becomes multiversal, because it's directly destroying something in 4 dimensions (or in 6, if you consider past present and future as the dimensions of time) and in the case of nasuverse, destroying the planet would necessarily have to be a destruction in 6 dimensional ms because of the existence of Avalon in the center of the planet
@@gabiel402 Question. I also heard The World in Fate has some layers or dimensions within it along with its own "space-time". What do you think of this?
@@r.k845 Nasu is kinda goofy in that it's simultaneously low power but high power, just because of everything high tier fucking with conceptual warfare instead of dbz strong guy break planet
Also void shiki can just wish the world away with wish granting, not exactly destroying the planet but still proves that servants can be summoned with the capability to destroy planets.
I mean, sure, that'd be an overkill like no other, but there’s no way Void Shiki as Saber Class Servant is just as powerful as her in-life counterpart, The Throne of Heroes could never contain something like that.
@@Marionic9001 when summoned void shiki maintains her connection to the root as a skill which marks her as a all powerful wish granting device which means she's likely still got her powers and can still use them but she just doesn't.
@@mysticme9238 She has some of her abilities true, but to what degree we don’t know. She has ability to change her parameters though… Yeah, now that I think about it, there's actually statements saying that she does not want to involve herself in anything, so all we know she could still be strongest Servant in existence, but definitely not as strong as living Void Shiki.
@@Marionic9001 Void Shiki does specifically state in one instance where she thought there was a Beast around that she was glad that Mephistolies was just a "Beast of Alaya" As if he had been a "Beast of Gaia" she wouldn't have been able to do anything
About heroic spirits, servants and their originals, as far as I see the scale is so the one on the throne > the original version > the invoked version. because, quite simply, the one on the throne is a combination of the royal version, plus any sufficiently famous fanciful qualities related to the servant. an example for this would be excalibur itself, of course the nasuverse version has always been able to fire the energy beam, but its property as a holy sword came from myths. For example, Saint George's Sword never had anti-dragon properties when it existed, but as a Noble Phantasm it gains this property. therefore, those who are on the throne are empowered by their own legends, being above the original selves, however the original selves are above their versions summoned as servants. take the example of jeane darc, her original hey couldn't summon an energy shield from her banner, but as a heroic spirit she becomes capable, her original self can't do it but it's stronger in power novels
Yeah, pretty much, though there are exceptions… non-combat types like author Servants & other modern heroes that held little mystery in life are way stronger as Servants, as their bodies are made of & strengthened by mystery now, beyond how humans are (which their living selves were)… Stheno & Eyrale are also stated to have become stronger than in life when summoned as Servants. The Original Heroic Spirit in the Throne is supposedly stronger than all the versions of any given Servant manifestation put together, since they’re above/not restrained by containers, meaning that even weakest genuine legit Heroic Spirit in the Throne is stronger than a Servant with Beast or Grand Class Containers, as containers are still limits applied to Heroic Spirits. Dunno how this relates to video topic though?
This is a very well made video, but you did misrepresent the debunk of planetary servants that people cite in Shinjuku. @ 9:20 “Even at full power, a top Servants Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn’t break *an entire planet apart.”* This isn’t referring to Earth, but a random planet in general. The next statement confirms that she was referring to planets in general. *”Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed”* implying she does acknowledge anti-planet NP’s are strong enough to destroy planets. So in summary: according to Da Vinci, top tier servants she was aware of couldn’t destroy an entire planet, and if there were NP’s that could destroy a planet, they could not destroy the Earth in particular due to the counter force.
No, Da Vinci is not referring to any random planet. Immediately following that statement, she elaborates, word for word stating that “even if Anti-Planet (Planet destroying) Noble Phantasm existed, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy THIS ONE” -AKA their specific Planet, due to the Counter Force ect. ruclips.net/video/WBfAi2N7Vg8/видео.html at 2:40:07 - 2:40:22 Also, it’s fine too if she was talking about a random planet in general, because all Planets in Nasuverse are implied to have their own Ultimate Ones safe guarding them (maybe they don’t have Alaya type safe-guards ect. due to most of them lacking intelligent life to produce collective unconscious, but Gaia would be free game for every planet in the verse). If we interpret that she’s talking about any random planet, she’d be talking about in-verse planets. Later Holmes confirms that destruction of Earth is entirely possible for mid-tier like Moriarty with crazy prep ect. if the World is removed from History & Counter Force at 3:08:23 - 3:26:23
@@Marionic9001 “top servants can’t destroy an entire planet” (planet without counterforce) “and even if anti-planet NP’s exist, they can’t destroy this one”(referring to Earth and assuming its counterforce is in play). Da Vinci is stating that anti-planet NP’s are NP’s that can destroy planets. Her questioning their existence implies that the servants she was aware of can’t muster the power to destroy counterforce-less planets. It is pretty clear that it’s not referring to Earth in the first sentence and that she believes servants can’t destroy planets without counterforces. Moriarty with prep and a lot of outside factors like the phantom heroic spirits and the Bennu meteor and a lot of tomfoolery can destroy a planet, but not top tier servants like Salter (who explicitly could not destroy even the city of Shinjuku due to it being infused with True Ether, which the meteor would smash along with the entire earth) Moriarty with all that prep would have killed them all had they not stopped the Bennu meteor from becoming the 7th bullet.
@@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892 "Her questioning their existence implies that the servants she was aware of can’t muster the power to destroy counterforce-less planets." - Literally contradicted by orgy of evidence presented in the video. Also, you do realize that there’s direct scaling for high-tiers to Anti-Planet NP’s that you regard as be all & end all of planet busting...? Hector & Herc under amps both blocked Artemis’ Shooting Star Ortygia, Saber Venus is barely impressive with crap parameters and has feat that f*cking base Archimedes is comparable to (defeating Veber II) & Voyger isn’t particularly powerful among Servants either... Not that it matters as NP classifications just signify range so it doesn’t exclude any other NP from being that level… "It is pretty clear that it’s not referring to Earth in the first sentence and that she believes servants can’t destroy planets without counterforces." - Again, it doesn’t matter if she was referring to Earth or not as I explained, but yes, she was referring to Earth. It’s not like she changed subject from random planet no-one in the conversation was talking about (Yan Qing & Holmes in both conversations Da Vinci is replying to SPECIFICALLY start by talking about the Earth), the first part of her sentence refers to Earth & second one specifies what she means by that. "Moriarty with prep and a lot of outside factors like the phantom heroic spirits and the Bennu meteor and a lot of tomfoolery can destroy a planet, but not top tier servants like Salter" - Moriarty literally gave himself NP of not even Heroic Spirit-level wraith, but a fodder ass Phantom Spirit & utilized it for Planet Busting in favorable circumstances. The reason why the ability is even on that level is specifically because of Moriarty being Heroic Spirit (a fodder one mind you who’s not even Demon God-level on his own), so it’s not like it’s giving him that massive of an amp, just a specific tool. The power aspect comes mainly from him if you really wish to be technical. Also, High-tiers scale to Moriarty’s prep anyway, Saber Alter & Emiya Alter destroy Bennu (confirmed to be planetary by Da Vinci & Moriarty) with ease, so the point about her being able to bust Shinjuku is utterly moot, among numerous other supporting feats they scale to.
@@Marionic9001 “literally contradicted by orgy of evidence presented in this video.” I was *only* talking about the Da Vinci statement in isolation and In this instance and on its own. *Never* have I claimed it debunks every bit of evidence of planetary servants ever. This is utterly irrelevant to my argument, all I am doing here from the start is criticising you for misrepresenting the debunk people cite in Shinjuku. Please do not bring up extraneous details from other events and feats when I am talking specifically about this statement. “At full power, a top servants NP almost certainly can’t break *an* entire planet apart. And *even if an Anti-Planet NP existed,* on paper, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy *this one.”* Both English language and logic conventions quite clearly show that she is saying top servants cannot destroy an entire planet (“an entire planet” = generality) and her saying “even if anti-planet NP’s existed” that is her indirectly claiming anti-planets can destroy planets, while top servants cannot. Her then saying “even if anti-planet NP’s existed, on paper, they cannot destroy this one” is the only part of the statement where she is specifically referring to the Earth. So in summary: top servants Da Vinci was aware of, according to her, almost certainly couldn’t break an entire planet apart. And also according to her, Anti-Planet NP’s are able to destroy a planet, but not Earth (which later we learn she believes is due to the counterforce). This is the correct way of reading this statement. You can disagree, but you’d be just wrong. I am not even saying this completely debunks planetary servants, I never have. If you still believe servants are planetary then that is your prerogative and it’s not illogical of you to discard Da Vinci’s statements here. But claiming it doesn’t contradict planetary servants is just wrong on all accounts. ________________________________________ Your whole point on NP-classifications “just signifying range” is just blatantly false btw. *”Fate/Zero animation guide: A noble phantasm that is powerful enough to blow away even a sturdy castle. Significantly higher power than anti-unit and anti-army noble phantasms, but it consumes a massive amount of mana and is difficult to use in quick succession. Saber’s Sword of Promised Victory (Excalibur) belongs to this category.”* And in case you still weren’t convinced: Fate/Prototype Fragments of Silver Blue on Stella: “Even if it had been categorically established as an anti-army Noble Phantasm to the bitter end, the overall amount of generated prana and the effective scope of it would be anti-country, and it’d be equally ranked with an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm if they were talking about *pure power”* It is a mixture of range, overall generated prana, and pure power that decides the classification - not just range.
To make it more plainly, Da Vinci is stating this: “X cannot destroy Y, and even if Z existed, it cannot destroy Y+C” Implication here is Z can destroy Y.
Really now? Well, if you’re interested on getting into the series I can make suggestions where to start. It's pretty complicated stuff, but really fun time. Smash Power Scaling coming later this year btw.
Okay you have convinced me that some servants range from the planet busting to solar system, galaxy, universal, and low - mid multiversal busting now depending on the version and circumstances of their existence. Though the outerversal feats I am still questioning due to HP Lovecraft's works being before the time the term outerversal was made which comic vine has pointed out in their Yog Sothoth vs Eternity thread which I saw. The outerversal stuff was added by authors after HP Lovecraft was gone. So the Fate outerversal stuff I will be questioning the variety of for now. With that out of the way I got to say this video was very well thought out and had patient hard work put through it. Well done bravo I commend you for your endeavor. Alot better then Bleach Hub's videos those were just a mess. He believes conceptual weapons are automatically outerversal which is just ridiculous from my point of view.
Well yeah, I’m very iffy about the Outerversal stuff in Fate as well, it’s a possibility, but I don’t think it’s clear cut or 100% consistent (especially for standard Servants), so that’s why I mention that stuff only in passing. Though I’d like to note that term “outerversal” not being invented when Lovecraft made his works doesn’t disprove anything in Cthulhu mythos being outerversal, that’s like saying that because term "planet buster" wasn’t invented when Superman/whoever destroyed a planet for the first time, it's not planetary, even if that feat would clearly be on planet-lvl (obviously hypotethical example). It just means that Lovecraft had outerversal feats before the term for that kind of scale was conceived… similar to how many religions have had concepts that are Outerversal/beyond description for thousands of years, but the word didn’t exist to classify them until recently. "The outerversal stuff was added by authors after HP Lovecraft was gone" - Pretty sure Hypnos, Dunwitch Horror & Silver Key-series are all directly written by him, all which feature Outerversal/beyond Dimensional stuff. Not a Lovecraft expert as you can see, but I’m 100% certain that those books are canon to his original work (btw, those 3 are the main works Salem Singularity draws its inspiration from. It all becomes quite funny after you’ve gotten to know all the references). "The Fate outerversal stuff I will be questioning the variety of for now." - As you should. "With that out of the way I got to say this video was very well thought out and had patient hard work put through it. Well done bravo I commend you for your endeavor." - Thanks man, appreciate it, lot of work did go into this (rest in peace computer, you served me well). "Alot better then Bleach Hub's videos those were just a mess. He believes conceptual weapons are automatically outerversal which is just ridiculous from my point of view." - Yeah, that’s not how this (or anything) works. If you wield a concept of, let’s say, a Sword, it’s not outerversal for some reason, as sword is 3rd dimensional object & it’s concept would be the essence of that 3D thing known as Sword. Platonic Concept is the one that would be outerversal, as it contains all possible forms of a set concept, including every dimensional version of it.
@@Marionic9001 Thanks for replying though there is one important note I like to address. There's more to it on that Comicvine thread called; "Yog-Sothoth (Cthulhu Mythos) vs Multi-Eternity (Marvel Comics)" then I mentioned. I only simplified what was going on. The whole modern cosmology thing I mentioned coming after Lovercraft's death was only one of many points that the group in the thread pointed out. There were several other points about the actual power of the Original Lovecraft Cthulhu Mythos they brought up. Now I don't agree with them brushing off the term outerversal as nonsensical but they did brought up some good points regarding the words Lovecraft used in his writings and it being up to interpretation. Like this one guy in the thread called Sungsam who pointed out the Original Lovecraft Cosmology like this and I quote: static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11134/111343371/6841449-6069266422-68138.jpg "Repeating yourself doesn't make you correct. Even with all that, mental gymnastics. "Finite Dimensions" - Lovecraft. "Archetypal and Eternal in the Space OUTSIDE dimensions." - Lovecraft. 6-D Yog loses. GG. If you are an Archetypal Infinity/Eternity only infinitely above 5-D and FINITE dimensions, you are just 6-D. Because people cannot read the word FIINIITE. Nowadays." - Sungsam. Now I do disagree with some of their assertions though they did give some valid points worth mentioning especially by the users Sungsam and Zgtfreak. Though there was a user by the name of Zerothcause who tried making a good case to defend the cosmology of the Cthulhu Mythos the other two users were able to make their own detail cases why they don't believe in the outerversal Cthulhu Mythos stuff Lovecraft made. Even though the thread has some insults thrown around this did change point of view about the cosmology of the original Cthulhu Mythos. I hope you can understand why.
@@Marionic9001 I think I have been finding information that may contradict the whole multiversal Fate Extra CCC thing as of late would you like to see what I have found?
@@thorshammer7883 I can see where the confusion lies yes, but I don’t know the context for those statements. It seems more like Lovecraft is talking about something effecting all finite Dimensions (any finite uncountable amount?) or something, then talks about Archetypal stuff outside it... or something. Don’t know how that somehow makes the verse 5 or 6D. I mean, I’m kinda just assuming those finite dimensions are Higher Dimensions, so could be wrong. But still, those Lovecraft works I pointed out feature Outerversal stuff (or can be implied to be such, especially when coupled with later works) "The Old Ones are, Old Ones have been, and Old Ones shall be. not in the spaces we tread, but between them. They walk serene, and primal, UNDIMENSIONED, and to us, unseen." - The Dunwitch Horror That thread also has (seemingly) a statement from Hypnos I believe, calling worlds of Men & Gods (3D world) is infinitesimal part of structure of Infinite Higher Dimensions, all which are below first Gate (where Outer Gods lie): “every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension-as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity. The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing-the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate” -Among others, by ZerothCause, what Sungsam bases his belief of it going only up to 5D… I don’t know? Also, Fate seems to use Lovecraftian Mythos in general, and not just stuff by OG author, similar how they treat other Servants Lore. The stuff with Sut-Typhon/Yog-Sothot is also specifically mentioned to extend to every possible Dimension 40:22 Again, possible, but I wouldn’t use it.
If only you bother to read before criticize other Da Vincci specifically says that even a top servent's NP at full power can not break the planet apart. She only mentions the counter force for any Anti-Planet NP that might hypothetically exists on paper. She or nether Holmes said that any top servant's NP can destroy planet if it isn't for Counter-force, its only apply for Anti-Planet NP that wasn't discovered at that time.
What seems to be the problem here officer? I accounted for that in the video too, from here to Sunday, actually. Da Vinci is specifically talking about Earth with that Anti-Planet comment (”even if one existed it couldn’t destroy THIS ONE”), but even if we interpret that she’s actually saying that even Anti-Planets can’t destroy ”any random planet” or that Anti-Planets can, but NP's that arent that Type can't, we can talk about that too: Holmes literally explains that it can be done, actually, directly talking about Da Vinci’s earlier statement IF Counter Force does not stop it, & Moriarty is creating an Anti-Planet NP in Shinjuku that will succeed if fired. Most importantly, there are orgy of feats that would contradict the statement if it wasn’t debunked by Holmes… we have actual statements & characters being able to destroy planets, powered by stars or planets & literally universal and beyond, quite consistently. And yes, those were not Anti-Planet NP's half the time. The NP type is more of a qualifier of range & bonus effects, not for AP anyway. Thirdly, as this one was less explored in the video (only mentioned) planet itself is made up of layers (Textures) that are Higher Dimensional in nature, like Reverse Side & Avalon, so those are always factors for why many NPs can't bust within Nasuverse despite having Universal powers (no idea how Moriarty could’ve destroyed all of those too with a f*cking rock though, maybe planets core dying kills rest of it or something, if it’s isolated from normal history). We are talking about destroying a regular planet here, not even Fate planet without Counter Force. Just regular planet like ours. Responding here after this long since I don't think anyone else has brought up these points yet.
@@Marionic9001 Again your are wrong because Da Vincci confirmed that most Noble Phantasm doesn't have the fire power to affect the whole planet in her first comment. In second comment Even if there are Anti-Planet NP (there only like 5 or 8 of them) it won't go past the counter force or require a lot of mana to destroy a planet which a servant usually lacks. Moriatity plan require a lot of prep, condition and power to the other servant just to summon an Asteroid and hit the person he like aka the protagonist in other to reach Anti-planet level. Even that is just surface level because Asteroid can't destroy an whole planet. All the statetment you are referring to are poetic language to exaggerate a servant's lore that some fate fans take it face value.
@@ishaqyousuf1332 Alright, let us analyze the exact word & their wider context (even though I already did): Da Vinci: ”Come now. You’re just making up nonsense now. There’s no way that could actually happen.” - Da Vinci does not believe it’s possible. She later gives context why, when the subject is brought up again in later conversation, like we are well aware. ”Even at full power, Top Servants NP ALMOST certainly couldn’t break entire planet apart” - This statement is fine, since most of Servants whom they know do not posses NP’s that have the range to enqulf entire planet. Even if their AP was above like, infinity, it wouldn’t destroy the planet, since damage is localized, right? Anti-Planet is only to signify that given NP can target entire planets, since NP classifications are specified for desired area/effect, not power. That’s what Ranks are for (though, the vid talks about AP in certain points as well, so Anti-Planet requirement is moot anyway to qualify in my eyes). I also find it funny how she settles on ALMOST certainly, as if she’s not sure. ”Earth has number of SAFETY PROVISIONS in place. He (Moriarty) can’t possibly subvert all of them!” - This is the wider context under which Da Vinci was making her previous claims. Safety provisions obviously refer to Couter Force, though it’s hinted that both Alay & Gaia have other ways to monitor & fight threats too… ” if Anti-Planet NP existed, ON PAPER, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy THIS ONE” - Da Vinci implies that this very particular planet (Nasuverse Earth) may resist Anti-Planet NPs ect. while I’m not talking about that Earth, but ours. Anti-Planet not being able to destroy Nasuverse’s Earth as she specifies, is belief she holds due to the safety measures. Without them, it would be possible, as Holmes soon clarifies. Strange that Chaldea’s smartest does not know any Anti-Planet NPs though, I guess she’s not counting Divine Spirits that have them in legends? The ones that only show up in FGO (like Voyager or Kiara) I’m ok for her not knowing tho. Holmes: ”About destroying this planet… in brief, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE” - Pretty verbatim claim. Holmes’ next couple of statements expain why he says this. ”Barring the sudden appearance of alien visitors, it is extremely unlikely that any of us born here could TRULY destroy it” - This statement is kinda interesting, since Holmes doesn’t necessarily seem to believe anyone in human history can TRULY destroy Earth when safety’s on, despite some feats in the series implying it (just in the last Arc for example), but this is more or less completely reasonable, seeing that he’s talking about Earth with it’s safety measures Holmes then goes on how Lion King & Edison tried to separate their worlds/people from Human History. He does this to lead the conversation to his actual conclusion about the point he made in the beginning. Da Vinci & Moriarty already realize what he’s leading up to. ”It is not possible to destroy the world. However, it is possible to remove it from history. In other words…” Ritsuka: ”if world is removed from history… then it can be destroyed? - in other words, Counter Force & safety measures in place would prevent anything that can destroy (Nasuverse) Earth. Those do not apply anymore when planet is booted out of history. Then sufficient power can destroy it. Holmes & Moriarty: ”WELL DONE!” - confirmation. Interestingly, Da Vinci implies that a version of The Throne in Shinjuku’s Earth won’t disappear, as Servants unique to it’s circumstances can still be accessed. Weird. Just a note. ”It is true that with the world divided, it’s safeguards would fail to work. Nonetheless destroying entire planet should remain utterly unfathomable. What do you think you (Moriarty) would need to make such destruction possible?” - again, Holmes implies that there does not exist means to do it, but then he talks about what Moriarty in this Shinjuku would specifically need to do to accomplish this. From this, it can be argued that Holmes only believes that anything currently present in1999 Earth can’t do the job, thus the meteor. After Moriarty confirms his suspicion about the meteor being enough, they both agree that the fodder meteor that 2 characters scale to & a phantom Spirit of all things is using as NP, can destroy the planet. To summarize, yes, it can be done, if sufficient power & range, like with meteor we see as example, are used, WHEN COUNTER FORCE ECT. ARE OFF. Anti-Planets definitely can too when safety’s off, & others may as well if they have feats that prove it. Not to mention, even IF Da Vinci’s & Holmes' statement flat out said it can’t be done, even if planet lacks it’s safety methods & we have range to do it, & it was to be taken as some absolute rule of the series’ lore that said no-matter what it can’t be argued against in it’s context, even in scenario like that, we’d still have like 58+ feats (quick math) of feats that are planetary & beyond (by our standard, not Nasuverses), not counting questionable feats, versus one statement saying it can’t be done. Now there’s a question which of the two is more consistent, 58 or one.
I had no idea about Britain’s Lostbelt & utter crazyness the characters would get up to there as of the making of the video, , so unfortunately Oberon-Vortigern isn’t featured here. Shame, since Oberon is one of my favorites from Lostbelt saga too ;_;
also I think qin shi huang np is an authority by extending to the world and granted himself advantage anywhere. Basically a territory creation to higher degree without territory creation skill.
Kind of sad you didn't go over Karna's feat from his legend where with his bow he pushed back Arjuna's chariot, which Krishna himself said was supposed to be impossible. For context Arjuna's chariot is stated to be the embodiment of the Universe at the highest or the galaxy. These were casual attacks from Karna. Editing this to say this is a great video cause I forgot to say that. About time people start to realize Fate characters are not just mountain level.
Oh shoot, I knew Mahabata was hiding some crazy feats. It’s so long that I just scimmed internet if I could find some to mention (quantifiably) but in the end decided against it, in-case I would’ve come out looking like I didn’t really know what I was talking about, considering I’ve yet to really get into the full story, aside from summaries. Glad you liked the video!
@@theflyingace611 Depends on how his toolkit would change. Rider might have more NP's but lower parameters, while Archer would be about same as Lancer, but lose Vasavi Shakti in favor of another NP, so I dunno if it would a good trade. I guess Kavacha & Kindala come with every class though? I can't remember if there exists statements comparing his classes, though Vasavi Shakti is pretty much hyped as his best weapon, so maybe Lancer is the best class for him...?
@@Marionic9001 We have no statements comparing his classes and it's probably unlikely we'll ever get Karna in a different class (Santa doesn't count), but I think Vasavi Shakti would stay in his kit. If you look into the lore of the weapon Vasavi Shakti is stated to be Indra's dart, a projectile. I just imagine he would string it in his bow and shoot it like an arrow rather than using it to fire a laser beam. Of course I can be wrong. Also if Karna would get more Np's as a Rider that would be scary, cause he already has 3-4 as a Lancer considering if you consider his version of Brahmasta (not Brahmastra Kundala) as a Noble Phantasm.
Maybe I will, but I have many other projects on my platter before that. Who knows… One thing I’ll definitively make at some point is Nasuverse & Fate Cosmology explanation & scaling video, I feel like lot of people (including myself) need that kind of video
@@Marionic9001 Yup we really need that and I see you doing well, keep up the good work man and take care. Looking forward to it and as always love the vid I can't get enough of it.
Okay I think I got a new suggestion one that you are familiar with. How about a powerscaling video on the Archie or Game Sonic series? Would that work for your powerscaling videos?
Thank you for making the video about Planet Buster, that is important because most people don't know how strong Fate is. Now next up is the truth scale Fate. So, Fate is not just Planet or Universe Level, this video proves that a planet can get destroyed by any Servants. (Planet completely). So, next up is about BB Moon Cancer in Fate game as a cannon. BB said, "It's a perfectly spherical spiritron defense wall that cuts through eight dimensions." which is a Complex Multiverse (Complex Multiverse completely). Then about Void Shiki, she is Outerversal or High Outerversal, Idk how to explain, maybe it's too long to say or explain (I can't explain very well)... Maybe you can research Void Shiki's cosmology, if you already know then that is good (Outerversal/High Outerversal completely). I keep hearing people say Saber is 6D, I feel I think the reason she gets Nerf is by summoning which makes sense. So, Fate's scale at best is Complex Multiverse - Outerversal. I'm not biased or downplaying, just research if you don't believe me. It might be too long to research because Fate should have a lot of information.
Yeah bro, Extra series is crazy thanks to Mooncell I actually don’t know about Void Shiki being this outerversal being anymore... I used to buy into it, but then every time she actually shows up, she has these weird statements and non-feats that make her look really weird. Like, apparently it was Void Shiki in OG Melty Blood, where their ending has them run away from Archetype Earth (extremely powerful being, but nowhere near The Root) & FGO has her state that Beasts of Gaia would be too much for them…? Shiki is connected to Akasha AKA The Root, which yes, is BARE MIN. Outerversal & pretty much no-one scales to it, but connecting to something doesn’t scale you o the entire thing. For example, Green Lantern’s Power Ring is connected to fundamental Multiversal power of Emotional Spectrum, but only tiny fraction of it is usable to them at any point in time. It is reasonable to assume same applies to Void Shiki, since they lack any showings on the scale of The Root, & there are other things in the franchise that points to the conclusion of their ability to quote ”do anything” be ability to effect & do anything but only to certain degree. We can see this in effect with character Manaka Sayo, from Fate Prototype Fragments of Sky Silver (Proto Arthur’s first master). She’s notoriously been connected to The Root since birth, and has many statements how she can do anything & is omnipotent ect. but all that comes with context of her being able to do any-thing, but not everything. She can perform literally any Magecraft, but her Magic Circuits only allow certain outputof it, so she can perform all things, but not to their utmost highest degree ever. In other words, her body & soul have limits that don’t allow her to make full use of her ”omnipotence”. If you read the translations for Prototype, she herself even admits she can’t beat likes of Proto Arthur or Brynhild, or Beast in straight fight, because while she has versatility, she does not have the power. Void Shiki might very well operate under same logic. 6D is for Avalon specifically, it is repeatedly stated to be 6th-Dimensional Defense in all the side materials talking about it. Artoria herself is not 6D being, but has a defensive armament that is 6D (normally she doesn’t have it though).
@@Marionic9001 Well, my friend already proved to me that Void Shiki is Outerversal, Idk. Also, we still have Artoria Pendragon (Unseal Avalon), Tiamat, Morgan, Beast Nero, and more that are Outerversal.
@@Animfateblade874 Beast & Grand Class tier of characters are higher dimensional yes, I say as much in the video, but where on Earth are you getting them being outer from?
@@Marionic9001 I don't think he would listen to me and he speak quick that Fate can't destroy the planet because of Counter Force. Anyway, tell me what is your Discord then you can talk with him.
Let me questions, do Servants still able to destroy the planets or universes due Counter Force? I know Counter Force nerf most Servants but still able to destruction them?
As explored in the video at various points, Servants can’t destroy Earth in Nasuverse precisely due to Counter Force (and other factors), but in any other verse where they would be dealing with ordinary planet/universe, it would be free game.
@@Animfateblade874 Yes. Only the absolute god tiers are ever seen as to be able to bypass the Counter Force to threaten the planet (or the Universe) under their own power. Beasts like Goetia & Kiara were such beings, as well as Lostbelt Arjuna Alter & Zeus.
Raw power wise? Maybe if we are talking about artoria or Gilgamesh or some other top tier power house of the series but the issue here is two main things They would need actually unlimited mana to get the job done,and the "world" is actually two forces that can absolutely prevent this from happening Even if we removed the restrictions servants inherently have then counter guardians like archer shirou emiya pop up and cheese the hell out of Gilgamesh or our beloved saber
7:29 At no point in the narration it is stated the planet is ar risk of being blown up, destroyed or otherwise killed. And the scale shown in the manga is far from planet busting. That line of "all the planet's mana" in the manga is a mistranslation, in reality it's just saying "All the mana is gathering in one place". The idea that a mere Servant like Enkidu could wield "all of the planet's mana" is ludicrous. And Enkidu's Enuma Elish increasing in power against things that threaten the planet OR humanity doesn't mean that every single thing it works on is capable of destroying either, only that its threat to them is bigger. 10:12 Da Vinci's statement is in three parts: Conclusive Statement 1: "Even at full power, a top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet apart.". "An entire planet" is here used generally, as opposed of being about Earth in particular. This is an informed statement that Da Vinci can make because Chaldea has recorded many Top Servant NPs. No one ever disagrees with this statement from her throughout all of Shinjuku, despite Artoria being right there with the strongest Holy Sword, a top Servant with one of the strongest NPs in the verse. Hypothetical: "Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed". This is an hypothetical that Da Vinci raises to reinforce her point that Moriarty's plan is impossible. Chaldea has no record of an Anti-Planet NP up until that point, but she's now addressing the idea that maybe there's one out there. (And as we learned later in Shinjuku, Moriarty indeed arranged to possess an Anti-Planet NP, the only one that can destroy a planet that we ever see a regular Servant have.) Conclusive Statement 2: "It wouldn't be enough to destroy this one.". This is her answer to the hypothetical situation where a Servant had an Anti-Planet NP; that even in that case, they couldn't destroy the Earth because of its defenses (as she elaborates on in the later conversation). This is not directly related to her previous statement that Top Servants cannot destroy planets, because she's using an hypothetical to presume the existence of a Servant that can do it. This is the part of her statement that she's situationally wrong about, because in Shinjuku the defenses that that conclusion relies on are offline. So taking the situational context that she was wrong about into account, the corrected form of her statement would be "Even at full power, a top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet. If an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed, on paper it could destroy this one.". Moreover, Moriarty's plan to destroy the planet involves guiding Bennu into a gun barrel towards the center of the planet and destroy the Earth's core. This is something completely irrelevant to Moriarty's strength as a Servant. Not to mention that regular Servant Moriarty can't even shoot Bennu as a bullet. The actual meteor itself merely striking the planet's surface would not even cause an extinction event. And the actual Bennu required fucking Excalibur and Unlimited Lost Works to be neutralized, a feat combination that is very much top tier amongst Servants. Emiya Alter's Noble Phantasm being specially suited to destroying physical objects is also outside of his standing as a Servant. I particularly don't understand how you could consider a Reality Marble composed of thousands of NP swords growing inside of you to be anything but a top tier ability. 11:47 Goetia's magical energy output with Ars Almadel Salomonis is quite literally stated to be the highest in the entire setting so far, him being actually capable of destroying the planet with it has literally no relevancy to Servants, not even Grand Servants scale to it in any way. Goetia isn't a Servant btw so I don't even know why you're mentioning him. 12:53 Surtr isn't quite as powerful as Goetia but his level of power is still irrelevant to Servants. Just to block his NP for a few moments it was required the efforts of a true living god (Skadi), a High-Servant comprised of multiple Divine Spirits (Sitonai) using the power of a top tier Servant (Heracles) another top tier Servant (Sigurd), a high tier Servant (Brynhildr) and a Vakyrie of Odin (Ortlinde) which would be at least mid tier. Most of these mofos using the power of Primordial Runes in tandem and straining themselves beyond their limits just to buy a few more seconds until Surtr's attack is interrupted. And BTW, Surtr "killing of the planet" involves him incinerating the Earth's surface and all land on it, not mass scattering or vaporizing it like a Death Star, so this is on the lower end of planetary destruction. 14:00 Servant Universe stuff does not in fact scale to other Servants due to being a joke parody from a completely different universe that is not taken seriously or meant to fit with the lore of the regular universe. High tier Servants like Mordred are explicitly incapable of destroying a small meteor, as was shown in Lostbelt 3. Requiring Spartacus to kill himself while being boosted by a Command Spell to match the power of the meteor and destroy it. 19:49 The world within Achilles Cosmos is not an entire world, it is described as a miniature world, the world that Achilles saw and lived in, so at beast it would only be the Greek Texture, far from an entire planet surface. On top of that, according the novel narration Vasavi Shakti explicitly failed to kill/destroy the world within the shield, only the gods in it. So the shield might have broken because it is in the end a divine construct forged by a god, faced against a god-killing spear. 20:58 No dude, Amakusa's NP is nothing like a black hole, in either power or function. It's just an orb of pseudo-black matter that swallows things like a vacuum cleaner. It doesn't even involve gravity in any way. The power to create a legitimate black hole is something only reserved to beings like that of the Foreign God, who is powerful enough to the point she can fight 7 Grand Servants and fucking survive, being the second strongest being Chaldea has fought, second only to Goetia. Absorbing a conceptual attack is a meaningless feat to determine its destructive power. 22:00 Wrong for several reasons. The planet Venus that she warps to is not the real planet Venus, it's in fact not even a planet at all, it's just what the people of ancient Mesopotamia thought Venus was. And Ishtar doesn't even shoot that thing which is not a planet, she fires the concept of something that is not a planet. 23:14 No, that's not evidence of holy swords having planetary AP, Galatine merely contains a pseudo sun in its hilt. Words like copy, pseudo or miniature are all indicative that the thing is not 1:1 to what it resembles. This is like arguing that CHALDEAS, the miniature copy of the planet's soul is equal to the real thing, absurd. 24:53 Kiara does not literally grow to that size, what the fuck are you even talking about? That's just a visual representation of the meaning and symbolism of what her NP actually does. 30:28 Myth Achilles does in no way scale to the gods, he ran away for his life when faced with the god of a mere river. And at no point does he or anyone he scales to fight a god without divine intervention helping them. In fact, most of the Greek heroes don't scale favorably to the gods at all. Heracles is one of the few notable exceptions. How the fuck does Ozymandias scale to the gods in myth when the dude is literally a real life person? Even in the Nasuverse he's below the gods as he needs a Holy Grail with the Demon God Pillar Amon just to become the Divine Spirit Amun-Ra. 33:17 You haven't established that Tiamat has planet busting destructive power, much less durability for the Servants in Babylonia to scale to them damaging her. Being higher dimensional in the Nasuverse is a mostly meaningless statements, as it only refers to that being a higher order lifeform. 33:53 The universe within the context of Kama's abilities refers to a conceptual universe, not the real one. 36:28 This statement does not refer to Amaterasu at all, but about Tamamo if she were to regain her 9 tails. The statement is also a mistranslation, it does not talk about the "multiverse", but the 三千世界 (sanzen-sekai, "three thousand worlds"), which itself is an abbreviation of the Buddhist cosmological term 三千大千世界 (sanzen-daisen-sekai, "three thousand great thousand worlds"), which is a translation of Trisahasra-Mahasahasra-Lokadhatu -- renderable in English as "Trichiliomegachiliocosm." What Nasu's version of sanzen-sekai means in practical terms (in the context of the Human Order / the Greater History of Man) is unknown. Therefore, making generalizations about it isn't very meaningful. 36:37 No, the Japanese name for the Craft Essence of Achilles Cosmos is 世界を内包せしもの, which translates to "The World Within". It does not use the term for universe (宇宙) or cosmos, but world (世界) like in the anti-world NP classification. 37:39 God Arjuna's Mahapralaya only destroys the surface of the Earth, at best only the Texture that he rules over, supposing the in his timeline he extended the Indian Texture over the entire surface that's the most he would destroy with it. He explicitly doesn't destroy the planet itself as Chaldea can escape the destruction of the wave of light by diving into the imaginary number space of the Reverse Side of the World, meaning that the planet Earth is still fucking there. Yes, Zeus is that big of a deal, and guess what? No Servants scale to him at all, even most Grand Servants don't. Heck, most Divine Spirits and gods don't scale to him either. 42:48 SERAPH is not infinite, as it's created by the Moon Cell, which we are told is finite so it cannot create infinite structures. Gilgamesh at no point shatters the Moon Cell's Reality Marbles.
"At no point in the narration it is stated the planet is ar risk of being blown up, destroyed or otherwise killed." - I was not arguing that Gil & Enkidu were going to destroy Nasuverse Planet via those feats, just that regular planets like ours would be toast in that scenario. None of these arguments are in favor of the Planet in Nasuverse getting destroyed, just regular non-OP planets, arguing who’s on that level is a video on it’s own… "That line of "all the planet's mana" in the manga is a mistranslation, in reality it's just saying "All the mana is gathering in one place". - Is it though? That’s how it is translated in official novel form. "Conclusive Statement 1: "Even at full power, a top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet apart.". "An entire planet" is here used generally, as opposed of being about Earth in particular." - Right, since every planet in Nasuverse that we know of is OP & has their own Gaia ect. "This is an informed statement that Da Vinci can make because Chaldea has recorded many Top Servant NPs. No one ever disagrees with this statement from her throughout all of Shinjuku, despite Artoria being right there with the strongest Holy Sword, a top Servant with one of the strongest NPs in the verse. Hypothetical: "Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed". This is an hypothetical that Da Vinci raises to reinforce her point that Moriarty's plan is impossible. Chaldea has no record of an Anti-Planet NP up until that point, but she's now addressing the idea that maybe there's one out there." - Pray tell, how does this exactly debunk anything I was trying to illustrate in the video? Bro, I’m not trying to say Servants can destroy Nasuverse Planets (yet), just that they an destroy planets from any verse where they have no special bullsh*t safety mechanisms, authorities or textures ect. - Taking situation in wider context, Da Vinci's & Holmes' cmments go somewhat like this: Da Vinci: ”Come now. You’re just making up nonsense now. There’s no way that could actually happen.” - (Response to hearing that Moriarty wants to destroy the planet) Da Vinci does not believe it’s possible. She later gives context why she said that, when the subject is brought up again in later conversation; ”Even at full power, Top Servants NP ALMOST certainly couldn’t break entire planet apart” - This statement is fine, since most of Servants whom they know do not posses NP’s that have the range to enqulf entire planet (AKA Anti-Planet classification). This doesn’t disprove anything in the video, since a Servant’s AP can still be infinite+1 or whatever & still not blow up Earth, since damage is localized, right? That’s what NP classifications are for, they describe the desired target/area of effect. ”Earth has number of SAFETY PROVISIONS in place. He (Moriarty) can’t possibly subvert all of them!” - This is the wider context under which Da Vinci was making her previous claims. Safety provisions obviously refer to Counter Force (ect). ” if Anti-Planet NP existed, ON PAPER, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy THIS ONE” - Da Vinci implies that this very particular planet (THIS ONE AKA Nasuverse Earth) may resist even if Anti-Planet NP is used, thx to these safety provisions. Without them, it would be possible, as Holmes soon clarifies. I agree, as I’m talking about if Servants can destroy regular planets like our Earth, not Nasuverse’s Earth. Holmes: ”About destroying this planet… in brief, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE” - Pretty verbatim claim. Holmes’ next couple of statements explain why he believes this. Holmes then talks about how Lion King & Edison tried to separate their worlds/people from Human History, in order to lead to his actual point; ”It is not possible to destroy the world. However, it is possible to remove it from history. In other words…” Ritsuka: ”if world is removed from history… then it can be destroyed?” Holmes & Moriarty: ”WELL DONE!” - in other words, Counter Force ect. applying would prevent anything that can destroy (Nasuverse) Earth. Those do not apply anymore when planet is booted out of history. Then sufficient power can destroy it. Holmes implies that there does not exist means to destroy planet, but then asks what Moriarty in this Shinjuku would specifically need to do to accomplish this. From this, it can be argued that Holmes only believes that anything currently present in1999 Earth can’t do the job, thus the meteor. After Moriarty confirms his suspicion about the meteor being enough, they both agree that the fodder meteor that 2 characters scale to & a phantom Spirit of all things is using as NP, can destroy the planet. To summarize, yes, it can be done, if sufficient power & range, like with meteor we see as example, are used, WHEN COUNTER FORCE ECT. ARE OFF. Anti-Planets definitely can too when safety’s off, & others may as well if they have feats that prove it. Not to mention, even IF Da Vinci’s & Holmes' statement flat out said it can’t be done, even if planet lacks it’s safety methods & we have range to do it, & it was to be taken as some absolute rule of the series’ lore that said no-matter what it can’t be argued against in it’s context, even in scenario like that, we’d still have like 58+ feats of feats that are planetary & beyond (by our standard, not Nasuverses), not counting questionable feats, versus one statement saying it can’t be done. Now there’s a question which of the two is more consistent, 58 or one. "Moreover, Moriarty's plan to destroy the planet involves guiding Bennu into a gun barrel towards the center of the planet and destroy the Earth's core. This is something completely irrelevant to Moriarty's strength as a Servant. Not to mention that regular Servant Moriarty can't even shoot Bennu as a bullet." - Yes, you are right, I took that part a bit out of context…. since I’m glad you asked, let me elaborate: I was trying to make a point that these kinds of feats are available for people who are not top tiers if they have right kind of ability (in this case, the said ability being from mere Phantom Spirit, not even Heroic Spirit), or if they prep enough, like Moriarty. I have my own grievances with this scenario however… why would that be enough to destroy Earth? It’s literally higher dimensional construct due to different textures consistently having statements of such (like Reverse Side & Avalon), not to even mention other arguments for it scaling higher. Like, the planet core resides in physical layer of the World, so why’d it effect Reverse Side or other textures? MAYBE it’s like firing a torpedo into Death Star Core, it’s not strong enough to blow up the entire station, but explosion of it’s core is... I dunno. Maybe because physical World is destroyed, Reverse Side & others pinned onto it’s surface come undone… or something. Granted, no one in Shinjuku makes these arguments nor even considers other layers being a factor there, so hard to say for certain without asking Nasu. Kinda strange. "I particularly don't understand how you could consider a Reality Marble composed of thousands of NP swords growing inside of you to be anything but a top tier ability" - To be honest, that tier of power is starting to fall further & further down to mid-tier, rather than high-tier that Round Table level of characters used to sit at, simply because of how much new powerful crap has been introduced since Lostbelt saga started…
@@Marionic9001 That wasn't how it was translated in the novel, no. "The planet sang. A gigantic amount of mana gushed forth at Enkidu’s feet, and moved to swallow Enuma Elish head-on." There is also no evidence that Gilgamesh and Enkidu have the powe to destroy ANY planets. We do in fact not know that about Nasuverse planets, no. And Da Vinci differentiating between planets other than Earth suggests the opposite. Again, you haven't provided any evidence that Servants can destroy any sort of planets, Nasu ones or otherwise. There isn't any case in which a Servant's Noble Phantasm could have infinite attack potency and not be strong enough to destroy a planet, even a Nasuverse one. What are those 58+ feats that are planetary and beyond? Because all of the feats I can think of that level do not scale in any way to regular Servants. And note that by regular Servants I basically mean non-Grands and Foreigners, Servantverse stuff and others. Probably even Gilgamesn and Enkidu on a good day. Not sure about that. It may be possible that physically reaching the Earth's core makes one reach the Inner Sea of the Planet like Albion tried to do and how I think Chaldea did in LB6. Hub? But literally all of the Round Table knights except for Artoria and maybe Galahad have nothing on the level of thousands of NP swords focused into a single point. Like, Galatine, Clarent and Arondight aren't anywhere near that powerful. Clarent sécifically is even noted to be insufficient to destroy a meteor, unlike Unlimited Lost Works.
Continued... "Goetia isn't a Servant btw so I don't even know why you're mentioning him." - Beast Class members are Servants though… I don’t exactly get how it works either (since Tiamat, Kiara & Goetia ect. all seemed to be living beings that awakened to being Beasts), but they’re all referred to as & classified as Servants. "Surtr "killing of the planet" involves him incinerating the Earth's surface and all land on it, not mass scattering or vaporizing it like a Death Star, so this is on the lower end of planetary destruction." -Surtr is verbatim stated to do both, incinerate planet surface & end the planet. Both the words ’Word’ & ’The Planet’ are used here, and we know how there's a specific distinction. Now I’m not gonna say he destroys the entire f*cking thing (all textures ect.) but it’s safe to say that normal planet would go ka-blooie if anything able to destroy planet-wide textures OF REALITY showed up in our world. I for one would like to hear a clarification from Nasu or somebody what Surtr exactly does, since he’s stated to do 3 things (likely he just erases the texture of Norse Age of Gods assuming it’s happened in the past when Mt. Novarupta erupted, but if so, why he says it’s end of everything & planet itself) "Servant Universe stuff does not in fact scale to other Servants due to being a joke parody from a completely different universe" - It does though. They’re complete and utter jobbers every time they appear, getting beat up by Musashi ect. & the strongest out of them (aside from Space Ishtar), XX jobs over 3 times in her debut event to absolute mid-tiers. Also what changes with them being quote ’joke parody characters’? What, we can’t scale Gudaguda characters anymore because they happen to be humorous? The Joke isn’t that they can’t be scaled to normal characters, but them being parodies of Artoria (ect) memes & Star Wars, is it not? Why’s that relevant? They have feats & then come to scale to other characters. Simple as that. "High tier Servants like Mordred are explicitly incapable of destroying a small meteor, as was shown in Lostbelt 3." - A meteor from nigh-omnipotent Emperor who’s embodiment of humanity who designed them to be used in defense against aliens… "The world within Achilles Cosmos is not an entire world, it is described as a miniature world, the world that Achilles saw and lived in, so at beast it would only be the Greek Texture, far from an entire planet surface. On top of that, according the novel narration Vasavi Shakti explicitly failed to kill/destroy the world within the shield, only the gods in it" - Funny enough, in the animation, we see Chiron’s constellation is contained within it… Also, yes the spear destroyed the shield, why do you think the world disappears suddenly when Sieg is mid-attack? "The planet Venus that she warps to is not the real planet Venus, it's in fact not even a planet at all, it's just what the people of ancient Mesopotamia thought Venus was. And Ishtar doesn't even shoot that thing which is not a planet, she fires the concept of something that is not a planet." - The bio flat out says it's the concept of Venus. Do you by any change think a concept is lesser than all things it contains? And if you want to say ’Mesapotamians didn’t think of it as a planet like Earth, despite every time Ishtar mentions it she explicitly talks about how it’s a planet’- then sure, the Mesapotamians thought of Venus as one of the actual important pieces in endless Celestial Heaven in their lore so… "Galatine merely contains a pseudo sun in its hilt." - Gawain: ’Blade of this Holy Sword is the Copy of the Sun itself’ I think it’s only fair to put this among other questionable feats. "Kiara does not literally grow to that size, what the fuck are you even talking about? That's just a visual representation of the meaning and symbolism of what her NP actually does." - BB: ’That wannabe Beast is a Solar System-Sized pleasure land! Just… please shove her on that foul mouthed nursery story writer!’ "Myth Achilles does in no way scale to the gods, he ran away for his life when faced with the god of a mere river." - He’s strongest Greek hero in Trojan War, and one of his compatriots stabbed sh*t out of Ares (& Aphrodite butwhocares). Diomedes, that was his name. Also has also weapons made by Gods. He’s also touted as equal of or second only to Heracles, both in & out of Fate, dude who you know fought his fair share of Gods… "And at no point does he or anyone he scales to fight a god without divine intervention helping them. In fact, most of the Greek heroes don't scale favorably to the gods at all. Heracles is one of the few notable exceptions. How the fuck does Ozymandias scale to the gods in myth when the dude is literally a real life person?" - Pharaoh in lore is embodiment of Gods & contains authorities of myriad Gods, mainly Ra, in their body (this fact is exaggerated especially Fate Prototype Fragments, like hot damn, it’s mentioned like 5 separate times or smthin). Maybe you misunderstood the point of the section? The lore that applies in Fate is taken into account, not necessarily real historical facts. For example: Fate lore deems that Abigail has Outer God Powers, when in our world that is (hopefully) not the case. What that would entail in scaling sense if the original mythology/story of Outer Gods is is supposed to apply like in original is what I was trying to illustrate with the section. Fate says Ozzy has Sunship & Ra powers, ’oh crap, those are like center of the universe in mythology’ -that’s what I meant. "Being higher dimensional in the Nasuverse is a mostly meaningless statements, as it only refers to that being a higher order lifeform." - Quote from Rin in Fate Extra CCC: ’From perspective of a Higher Dimension, the third dimension looks like a flat scroll. Er, it’s like jumping out of a book or something like that’ Quote from BB in FGO Summer Event 3: ’The usual rules don’t apply here, Maybe if you had more than 3-Dimensions to work with, but I can’t see humanity ever evolving that much’ I could go on. You’re one infinity lower in scale than something that has infinitely higher existence. It’s quite consistent in Nasuverse which likes to play with this kind of stuff like Imaginary Numbers… "The universe within the context of Kama's abilities refers to a conceptual universe, not the real one." - Yes, which is treated like & functions like actual Universe in the event (inside Ooku). Or are you saying that the Assassin Servant version wouldn’t be on that level…? I mean maybe?
"This statement does not refer to Amaterasu at all, but about Tamamo if she were to regain her 9 tails." - You’re right about that, at the time I was under the impression her 9-Tailed form would turn her into Amaterasu, but she’s actually different entity (Divided Spirit). "The statement is also a mistranslation, it does not talk about the "multiverse", but the 三千世界 (sanzen-sekai, "three thousand worlds")" What Nasu's version of sanzen-sekai means in practical terms (in the context of the Human Order / the Greater History of Man) is unknown. Therefore, making generalizations about it isn't very meaningful. - Hm, I didn’t know that, that’s interesting. Interesting that they decided to localize it as the Multiverse, considering how careful Type-Moon is with wording the cosmological constructs in the franchise, Might have been intentional distinction to make, but we can’t know for certain. If I had to guess what sanzen-sekai may refer to in context of Human History/Order, and don’t take this too seriously as an argument, it might just refer to Human History in round-about way (though, why is it not saying Human order if that’s the case), or it actually refers to great trichiliocosm already mentioned in CCC, which the game lore described as Three Billion Solar Systems making up the Living Universe in Buddhist Cosmology. I don’t know if it’s the same thing at all, but I’ve heard it being called 3 thousand worlds. "God Arjuna's Mahapralaya only destroys the surface of the Earth, at best only the Texture that he rules over, supposing the in his timeline he extended the Indian Texture over the entire surface that's the most he would destroy with it." - Shiva’s Authority is described as destroying the universe literally every time he’s is brought up, which Arjuna uses in Mahapralayah. It destroys the Universe of his Lostbelt/of Indian Cosmology/whatever. That’s why Chaldea only sees the Lostbelt acting weird & not entire world. "He explicitly doesn't destroy the planet itself as Chaldea can escape the destruction of the wave of light by diving into the imaginary number space of the Reverse Side of the World, meaning that the planet Earth is still fucking there. - Did you forget that Imaginary Numbers Space/Void Space is different world that’s not even a parallel world? It’s not even affixed to the planet, but higher dimension that belongs to the universe. "Yes, Zeus is that big of a deal, and guess what? No Servants scale to him at all, even most Grand Servants don't. Heck, most Divine Spirits and gods don't scale to him either." - True. Zeus, nor Surtr or Arjuna for that matter, are really not Servants, but I wanted to talk about them in the video still. There are rare exceptions though, Full Power Excalibur absolutely scales to them, full power Ea, Super Karna, Back Barrel wielded by Mash & as you said, Grands, Beasts & some Divine Spirits would. Servants not immediately dying against them or defending with their combined efforts are also good feats, just saying. "SERAPH is not infinite, as it's created by the Moon Cell, which we are told is finite so it cannot create infinite structures. Gilgamesh at no point shatters the Moon Cell's Reality Marbles." - Hakuno: ’The Titan’s scream seems to shake reality itself. So primal, so tremendous, that it resounds across the infinite void of space. The world is breaking. The Titan’s scream itself is shaking SERAPH apart’ - statement actually on screen at 42:40 What are you on about? Twice, Rin, Rani, BB & pretty much everything in the plot of Extra & CCC constantly wank how it has recorded infinite possibilities (which is low-balling, since proper Human History is already infinite possibilities according to Goetia, which Moon has recorded & simulated infinite times over). It literally contains higher dimensional constructs. Gil shatters the Reality Marble temporarily in his animation with Ea. It’s been long time since someone has been this throughout with one of my videos. It’s fun. I’ll get back to you eventually, but I’m busy with a new video right now, so don’t expect it soon.
@@Marionic9001 God Arjuna is explicitly stated to not be destroying the universe during the Lostbelt. Da Vinci: If that's true, it sounds like Arjuna isn't remaking the world from scratch every time he resets the cycle then. Da Vinci: Instead, he's basically treating the world like a model, adding new parts and removing old ones. Holmes: Then it would stand to reason that, strictly speaking, the people here may not be dying and being brought back to life. Da Vinci: Yeah. It seems more likely that everything down to their souls is being saved as data... Da Vinci: ...and that their memories are being modified when they're put back into the new world. Da Vinci: And if that's the case, we're talking about a much smaller-scale feat than creating the entire universe from nothing. Da Vinci: It's still a big frigging deal, don't get me wrong. Da Vinci: But if Arjuna's got every Indian Divinity AND support from the Tree of Emptiness, it's theoretically possible. The Imaginary Number Space that Chaldea dives into to escape Mahapralaya is one within the Reverse Side of the World. Scáthach-Skadi In one sense, Void Space is similar, in that it too possesses untold possibilities. Scáthach-Skadi But unlike primordial chaos, which accomplishes this by mixing everything together at once, I believe Void Space does so by being unobservable. Scáthach-Skadi That is to say, this is the Reverse Side of the World, a completely opaque domain where not even established laws of physics can be glimpsed. Like I said, the Moon Cell is explicitly stated to be finite. "Rani :: …now I understand. The sparse layout of the eleventh floor is for this purpose. Rin :: By layout you mean this big box? Er, so you mean she removed as many obstacles as possible so she could use a limitless transfer? Rani :: No, that’s not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, the Labyrinth cannot become infinite - it must be of a single shape, with a fixed entrance and exit. No matter how irregular it appears, the Labyrinth must abide by those conditions or it will break down." And the amount of possibilities that the Moon Cell has recorded is also explicitly finite. "Moon Cell‘s core is Moon Cell. As far as Moon Cell is concerned, the seven layers that make up the interior of the Moon are just “additional memory.” Moon Cell‘s core is what really manages the Moon and observes the Earth. It is the brain that stores the data about the past and future. It observes the determination of every possible destiny every second, computes further results, and stores everything inside itself as light.1 There are untold tens of millions of lights years of light trapped within the core, and the entire photonic crystal structure is also powered by it. A certain person named Moon Cell‘s core, “The Destiny Perceiving Dendrogram.” Just by using information encoded by converging light Moon Cell‘s core can even rewrite the laws of physics. Phenomena Selection Tree Angelica Cage." Hakuno's statement would simply be a hyperbole or a mistranslation.
Since this video is from 3 years ago and currently the Lostbelts and subsequent events showed feats by far greater, is there a possibility that the Servants have a higher level? I understand or at least little I've seen, we have things like Mash withstanding the power of a Lostbelt with his NP which is a galaxy incarnate or Elizabeth countering an attack equivalent to the energy of the Big Bang. At least that kind of stuff I've seen on Reddit, I don't know what you'd think these days. Best regards, my English is not very good and I hope I was understood.
There definitely has been quite few new above planetary to even above universal feats after this video! Some that make me ever so slightly upset in retrospect, since I would’ve loved to have talked about them here, like Avalon & South America ones. Lostbelt Trees are galaxies straight up, which I neglected to mention in the video, and to this day I have no idea why. Every Servant present for those boss battles scales to them. I don’t know the Elizabeth feat you’re referring to (but would be pretty good scaling vise, seeing to how notorious of an jobber she is), but then again I have not played all the events in FGO due to being busy, and half the time have resorted to watching walkthroughs to see if they added something cool.
@@Marionic9001 Elizabeth's feat is in a Halloween event, specifically the Halloween Triology event. I find it curious to find very few in the Fate Scaler community about the feats that give a higher level than average Servants, that is, the ones that are not the god or top tier of these. Many mention them as outlier feats or with little sense because of the whole planet textures issue, but most of these feats don't even occur in the main land of their respective universes but in one where the planet layers are not. I would like to give them a universal level to the Servants since there are other feats apart from the singularities and Lostbelts, as is the case of Kiara, her belly (no kidding) according to several FGO descriptions is mentioned as quite giant 4D space and this attribute she keeps it even being an Alter Ego, that is, her Servant version that nerfs her. Moreover, being a Servant she has a power equivalent to that of a solar system and remains a universal threat being limited by her Servant Saint Graph. Speaking of the Saint Graph, these could also serve as a good argument in case you make a video talking about the power of the Servants, since as the story goes by they evolve and improve Fujimaru's Servants, although, not at the level of a Grand, it is a good justification to reinforce the feats.
@@JasonMcGinnis223 Yes, there seems to be this weird mentality in Fate community (and lots of other fandoms as well), where the characters perceived as top tier are ”allowed” to keep their super impressive high end feats, but whenever a characters perceived to be average or lower tier proves time and time again that they are at certain range or scale to even a percentage of the high tiers, suddenly it’s an outlier. The Saint Graph ascension is so iffy it hurts. I know it's mentioned to be canonical thing in FGO, but an possible power boost it gives to Chaldea’s servants is never referenced nor seems to factor in servant on servant duels, with all the characters being treated the same in terms of power as they’ve always been as Masterless servants. Heck, most Saint Graph ascensions are literally just canonically costume changes or a form character took under extra circumstances & shouldn’t normally have (Cu Alter’s are based on him amped by Holy Grail & many STN ones like Artoria or Medusa literally just have them changing their outfit a bit like in STN, as ascensions), or they appear as 1st ascension in Chaldea when you summon them normally, implying it’s their base, but then 2nd ascension is almost always the base when they’re summoned normally with in singularities ect. so weird.
@@Marionic9001 Em, from Singularity F they mention that Servants evolve or improve their power over time beyond a costume change due to the bond or time they spend with Ritsuka. Mash herself is an example that went from barely standing up to a Servant to directly being on par with some. The Saint Graph in the Singularity of London if I remember correctly they mention about how to improve it there is a big power gap, complemented with the explanation of the Grand Servants. And well, I think it goes without saying that in that point Mash has improved too much. It is worth mentioning that the Grail Saints do not all have the same level seeing the difference in feats and how these are the ones that provide the most power to the Servants of the moment, which would explain why there is such a difference in feats. Without anything weird in between or external things if we take into account Mysterious Heroine X the minimum level, without Master, the Saint Graph, nor the Holy Grail in between would be the planetary level, at least that is the best explanation I can provide as to why there are such weird cases with the levels. The improved and based on what we have seen with Mash, in each Singularity it varies, as she improves her Saint Graph the star, solar system and Galactic level is the most that has been seen, Universal if we take into account that the Lostbelts and Fantasy Trees are really pruned timelines/universe and therefore without panhuman history.
@@JasonMcGinnis223 Mash definitely goes through improvement, the only one that’s not contestable at all. What I meant was the supposed gap in power never plays a part nor is showcased in canonical sense, all the mentions of it are just to justify the ascension costume changes (that ironically are sometimes just simple costume changes in-canon, that servants can do simply by lifting up their hood or remove their armor even in story of FGO ect., Mysterious Heroine XX being prime example of one now that you mentioned her). In singularities almost every servant appears in 2nd ascension as base, so does this mean Chaldea deliberately summons weaker servants than those that are normally summonable & thus need an ascension to be on par with that base? Not to mention how almost no-one on Chaldea’s side ever appears in 3rd ascension in story (probably because half of the cast of first 3 singularities has such an awful ascension art) despite how it SHOULD be more than possible, or mandatory even for them to be in top shape (also any summoning in story, like in Lostbelt chapters, also has Servant in 2nd Ascension from the start, further meaning it’s the base). So weird. Not to mention how servants who supposedly are stronger thanks to ascension can’t stop getting bullied by the same servants who usually beat them in fights. There doesn’t seem to be any difference really. Unlike Spiritual Modification in Extra where your servants stats actually experience change, ascension is pretty cosmetic as far as story is concerned, despite claims to the contrary (which do exist, I’m just saying those claims are ill-supported). The only times where I’d treat ascensions as (significant) increases in power, would be any time Mash got one (and with her it’s more like her just getting closer to Galahad’s base power & than getting add-ons, so not regular ascension per-say), and those rare instances in story where character does ascension & it’s vocalized to be power up, Skadi in Scandinavian Lostbelt is one of the few that comes to mind.
@K.O.G.Fanstarks1610 Yeah. I would love to see to see what Archetype Earth would have to say on the matter. Though, funny enough, all the biggest threats to the planet itself (barring aliens) are actually directly born from forces within the planet like Beasts & Grands.
@K.O.G.Fanstarks1610 Goetia was gonna replace the planet & Kiara was gonna kill it by becoming it's brain... there are lot of others that are considered threat to the planet, but nothing that Counter Force hasn't been able to deal with in one way or another (aside from Notes).
If Enkidu took all the Planet's Mana wouldn't that mean the Planet is dead or is going to be dead like the EXTRAVERSE? or is this one of the many "Flowery Language" that the Fate/strange fake uses?
It can be inferred that he only took all it could spare & left some in reserve as not to kill the planet (similar to Servants or Magus exhausting all their Mana fighting & becoming too weak to do anything, yet still remain alive). The Planet can also regenerate it’s reserves similar to how humans do via rest ect. I’d imagine… Though it would indeed be funny if Gil & Enkidu fighting too much was revealed to be the reason Planet started to die in Extra Timelines XD (it is not though)
@@Marionic9001 So yeah Flowery Language. It would be funny that because of Enkidu taking all the Mana the planet would become dead and the chances of it becoming a pruned timeline would increase and that's how the F/SF HGW ended though it always confuses me on how people where able to see "Taking all of the Mana" as something true when we already have a perfect example of a world that has no mana left.
@@vincentvonmod4235 How is that particularly flowery...? Saber runs out of mana in STN, yet still lives. Enkidu is just taking all it can spare, not all it needs to live. Those are two different things, max potency & max capacity. Also timelines become pruned only when they go on a path which has no possibilities to to follow... thus far, from what we've seen from Extra, there are quite few possible directions time can still take, even when world has no mana. That's exactly what prompts humans & mages to explore Mooncell.
@@Marionic9001 I thought he was only taking the ley line mana, it mentioned "it was enough to delude one into thinking that Gaia, the counter force of the planet , was opposing Gilgamesh’s power to destroy the world" so it isn’t the counter force but mana of the ley line? The comic mentioned of "to that of a planet" is just the little girl’s delusion. 7:34
Btw I heard that you said that shulk is the concept of fate do you have a scan I mean that won't put him at outerversal but it still gonna be interesting
Concept of Fate…? I don’t think I’ve ever said that. He’s one with Passage of Fate, sure, but I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned anything about concepts when discussing him (also I’ve never said he’s outerversal???). Monados, in essence, are devices for manipulating ether, which makes up all things in Xenoblade, material & immaterial, making them kind of control keys for reality. Zanza, upon gaining 2 Monados states that he has become one with the Passage of Fate, which he uses to simultaneously view all of Time, his vision stopping at the point where Shulk takes his power for himself ruclips.net/video/Tsgy1h5x8VU/видео.html at 10:00:54 - 10:01:37 Later it's further explained by Alvis that Zanza’s will is literally same as fate, what he says, goes. Fighting him is same as fighting predeterministic destiny itself at 9:18:00 - 9:22:20 Upon Zanza’s defeat, Shulk has that whole bit about him deciding the future of everything, and he decides that World will have no more Gods to control fates of mortals, at 10:15:43 - 10:21:18 That’s it in a shellnut. BTW Shulk’s Visions of Future are actually him seeing the strings of fate, how events would play out, was he not to intervene with them, pretty much meaning that even base Shulk is outside Passage of Fate (Alvis also confirms this in the scene where he explains Zanza’s control over fate).
@@Marionic9001 yeah I know he isn't outerversal being concept of something doesn't always means you are outerversal im just saying was that ever the case
@@mohamedbinishaq3169 Yeah, that's right. It depends on the scale of the concept. Platonic Concept would be Outerversal, but concept of, let's say, 3D Gun would just be 3D in scale. Not that Shulk's power is based on anything like that anyway...
They don't huh? So I guess King Hassan didn’t f*ck up Tiamat to the point she could be defeated by Servants a dimension below her, and Quirinos didn’t balance scales against Zeus who was superior to Koyanskaya (immature Beast who was supposed to be beatable by Orion), nor was Noah capable of defeating Draco before being jumped & even while weakened he & king Hassan allowed everyone to beat her? Grands were specifically made by Counter Force to be summoned to defeat Beasts whenever they show up you know…though I’ll admit, their track record is generally pretty mid, considering none of them having just outright 1v1’d a Beast.
so, nasuverse characters, like gilgamesh or artoria can destroy an multiverse? artoria defeat tamamo in extella, who is stronger than bb, and characters like the beasts or lostbelt kings can just erase a multiverse complex or higher? so nasuverse can solo a lot of others universes like DB( who is a weak universe) and face umineko (who is the stronger universe in the LN and GAMES)
Kintoki & Raikou have scaling to roughly the Round Table-ish tiers of characters, what’s with Kintoki fighting greatly amped Tesla who matched Mordred & both being comparable to Shuten & Ibaraki, among other things, so they are around the level of those high tier people who can somewhat fight Universals in the series, give or take. Raikou’s Ushi Gozen state is apparently Divine Spirit level, and those type of characters are usually performing asinine feats like creating infinite spaces or manipulating World/reality itself (what we know for sure of her rank is that it's far lesser than Amaterasu, but higher than likes of Suzuka Gozen)
Zeus can destroy the universe and Zeus Is weaker than alien God ( third planetary class) goetia ( second planetary class) > alien God. Lol yes servants can destroy the Planet, anyway good video. P.S. Zeus atleast is a 8D being
If we wanna go even further, Amaterasu/9-Tail Tamamo can destroy Multiverse, is only one of Primary Gods while < Arjuna Alter absorbed a pantheon of hundreds of Gods whom posses 3 Primary Gods (not to mention how some of Hindu pantheon can be argued to have influenced Shinto ect. Deities or to be their OG’s AKA superiors according to Fate Lore) < Zeus is stronger than Arjuna < Alien God < Goetia < Solomon, according to Goetia Where does Zeus being 8D come from tho?
@@italianwithkebab8396 That’s Amaterasu within Mooncell though, rules & power levels are different from Earth where physics & Counter Force apply… But yes, in Mooncell Zeus ect. would easily be on those same levels, maybe even beyond that dimension.
@@Marionic9001 even if we disregard the moon cell and the counter force an unprotected world like for example ego from guardians of the galaxy would be screwed even the being is a celestial body.
I don't think Goku or Whis can beat 45% Fate Characters cause they are required to have Magical Energy which can damage Servants. So, I can say at least around 90% between 98% Servants who can beat DB Verses. Also, Fate is not just Planet or Universe Level, this video proves that a planet can get destroyed because most people don't know how strong Fate is. So, next up is about BB Moon Cancer in Fate game as a cannon. BB said, "It's a perfectly spherical spiritron defense wall that cuts through eight dimensions." Which scale Complex Multiverse while Goku is High Universe, scale Goku a Low Multiverse is misunderstood because people think Goku can destroy 2 Universe. Dragon Ball Super don't show that destroy or shake a TWICE. "B-But Goku shakes the void", yes, I know but the Void has infinite which should big as a Macrocosm. Macrocosm is 3D because it is a small universe that is inside of Universe 7.
hmm nope. hercules is like king piccolo lvl. fate need unrestricted servant like saber to destroy db. servants are city level or multiverse there is no between.
Well, I mean, obviously, though it has nothing to do with Servants. (though I suppose I mention things that aren’t Servants in this video quite a number of times...)
@@Nothingness4907 well man he said only servants not other characters why are u just in every comment also i dont like powerscaling but can u stfu he is just making his vid for his viewers
fate characters are beyond infinity dimensional septillion outer solar exter versal creational power conceptional hornyoal universe strong. if it weren't for gaia alaya beasts grands zelritch kaleidoscope ultimate ones small ones delusional ones they would've destroyed all fiction and even our reality by merely playing tug of war with me-I MEAN FUJIMARU RITSUKA quintillions of times over in the span of a petasecond
You forgot to mention , ea used to be far stronger , similarly to Excalibur Ea has restrictions , ea used to have nation building authority , 3 great class authority , it was mentioned in the strange fake novel even after its possible world ending feat It was stated ea used to be far stronger , it’s was magnitudes greater , it was mention it Gil’s card ea outranked all the gods that built on or built the primordial world The world being cathoyuluk or the primordial earth ea was the ultimate manifestation of power before hand it after crystallized into from as we see it now Ea stabilized the primordial world it’s one of its main creators , cathoyuluk being the proto to all earth mothers , ea is confirmed to be older than the world itself the ultimate representation/power of the gods before the world came to be , so if you want to make an argument for it you can argue due to ea being older than the world and outranking all the gods that built it , it having 3 great class authorities , older than cathoyluk and it obviously being older than gaia and alaya since without cathoyluk they wouldn’t even exist in first place So ea in its prime days can get very high up there in power scaling in fate
Strange, I’m not familiar with those statements from Strange Fake. In which page it’s on? I’ve seen statements that Ea (God) that the weapon is equated to, is kinda deification of the Planet itself in lore, I believe this is from Extra CCC character matrix, so it may very well be that Ea was more powerful in far past, possibly before Gilgamesh used it (it has been said to have created Planet or at least stabilized it by Gods too…) Those Strange Fake statements would definitely solidify that claim.
@@Marionic9001 It’s mentioned in some source materials that no beings of this world can destroy it, Gil being a being of the world And during with the events of gaia , pretty sure ea was recognized by it and deemed it extremely dangerous as ea tore apart Gaia’s world It’s most likely gilgamesh nerfing it , since it was mentioned several times ea lost the power it once had
@@Marionic9001 The planet was once a living hell , where no organic being can survive But during the creation of the planet or the primordial world , ea outranked everyone who was there
The thing about Ea outranking the other gods is a mistranslation. Ea is also not confirmed to be older than the world itself, as he is merely the pseudo-deification of the power of the planet that stabilized the ground surface.
The Moon Cell itself can be used to alter reality itself and "destroy the world", which does not mean destroying the planet, just ending life and/or civilization on Earth. The fact that Buddha's NP can be used so the Moon Cell does this to all the worlds it observes has nothing to do with destructive power or attack potency.
I never claimed that outside Universe was being effected in Extra section. Moon Cell’s reality warping can effect outside world yes, but I never said it can destroy Nasuverse Planets, I don’t think that’s flat out stated (I mean, via scaling it kinda is, but hey). Chakravartin was gonna annihilate Universes recorded inside Moon Cell. Within it, those universes are real. It’s still a major feat.
@@Marionic9001 There aren't universes recorded inside the Moon Cell, only data in the form of light. What Chakravartin was gonna was halt the process of timelines being supplied energy to exist, because the Moon Cell's observation of parallel worlds and reality warping can do that. So this doesn't scale to Chakravarting, it's a feat of the Moon Cell and it's not planet or universe busting either.
@@Daemon_Belial SE.RA.PH is universe of it’s own & contains planets stars & infinite void of space as Extella & CCC describe and showcase in backgrounds too. Moon Cell contains all possible timelines as recorded information & can even bring any of them into actual reality outside of it, so the are real as they come. These possibilities can also be accessed whenever within Moon Cell’s environments as seen with Extras & CCC’s bonus bosses like FSN Rin & Archer or the like. Chakravartin was gonna halt their operation entirely. Storing something that is infinite is infinite in power. I wonder if you missed the scans I showed in the video.
@@Nothingness4907 You’ve been spamming quite lot of comment here lately… if you really want my attention, all you would’ve had to do is ask to argue against the evidence I showed in the video. If you wanna discuss the topic, I’m all for it, but you need to understand that you’re not giving much for me to work off of other than you think I’m wrong. So what do ya got, mystery person? ^_^
🔥FEW CORRECTIONS:
It should be noted that I’m not entirely correct on the information given regarding the Shinjuku feats presented in at 08:12 - 10:56 section, and everything I say there should be taken with a grain of salt.
My understanding was that Moriarty was simply pulling the meteor towards Ritsuka to smash it into the planet, completely forgetting the Shinjuku Tower, which was explicitly meant to draw the meteor in when it’s close & fire it into planets core, blowing the whole thing to hell, the asteroid impacting the planet on it’s own is never said to be enough exactly. So yes, I got the details of the feat wrong.
To begin with, I should’ve realized that the asteroid alone wouldn’t be enough to blow up Earth like Moriarty wants to, as Fate uses real life asteroid Bennu here, a celestial rock with dimensions of 565m × 535m × 508m, thus generating merely about 1200 Megatons to 12 000 Megatons of destructive energy upon impacting with it’s travel speed of aprox 63 000 mph, which would not be enough to shatter the planet as Moriarty wished (Bennu would normally be around Mountain level, however, some claim it could be life-wiper as well, but scientist generally seem to disagree with the notion), which is why he built the gun-tower thingy, to amplify & direct Bennu’s energy to the core of the planet. This is explicitly mentioned in the story, yet I somehow managed to miss it twice while playing the f*cking game. Shows me what I know...
Granted, you could argue that maybe the meteor in FGO has far higher AP than the real Bennu in our world, as it may be traveling at much higher speed thanks to being drawn to Earth by magical bullsh*t… we even get evidence of this when it suddenly appears in the sky when Chaldea’s instruments didn’t detect it near Earth moments earlier, but it’s less likely to be planetary even then, considering how the story implies Moriarty still needs the gun-tower to go planetary.
Even then, this feat in on itself is kinda weird all things considered; for example, how Planet’s other Textures like Higher Dimensional Reverse Side ect. react to the core being destroyed is not addressed by so much as a word (Counter Force not functioning in Shinjuku’s timeline should not effect the textures planet is made up of).
My best faith interpretation (beyond ”lol, writers forgot them specifically this one time & never again for some reason”) is that maybe the textures come undone if the physical planet is destroyed, But then again, Rhongomyniad AKA thing that binds them together into the Planet doesn’t exist in physical plane but Reverse Side as the said pin (AKA it’s tower form), so anything wanting to unpin those textures would default need to attack Reverse Side too, which is bottom layer of the planet to begin with, not the physical... So dunno, maybe rest of the textures just keep existing even if the physical planet is smashed to bits by meteor in this scenario (…which would contradict other feats in the series, see what I mean when I say this feat is unclear as to it’s mechanics)?
Be that as it may, Archer Alter & Saber Alter destroying Bennu is not necessarily planetary (and I’m only talking about this specific feat mind you) & it could even be construed as an anti-feat for overall servant planetary power, depending on how you argue it. But please keep in mind that one anti-feat does not magically invalidate some 30+ pieces of evidence in favor I lined up for the video.
Nevertheless, whether the feats I described for Shinjuku itself were planetary or not, it was important info to address in the video.
About featuring Surtr & Zeus in the video despite them not being servants… um shut up, I wanted to talk about them too, lol.
Well, yes, that is the reason, but there are also individual servants that do fight & scale to their feats, such as Super Karna & Quirinus for example.
Beast Class members are not servants necessarily either (which is argument for whole other video), but they scale to Grand Class Servants directly, who are servants, so it’s still fair to talk about them in my opinion, whether they are servants themselves.
The part all people fall into this specific discussion is that in fate the planet is not just some rock, it's an entity that can shape the reality on the surface of the planet and defend itself from threats.
Yes and it's multi layered defense is what keeps humanity and the world safe that is why all of the anti wold np have been downgraded to a degree that people will assume that it's gas leaks or something so it would not disrupt human order.
Yeah planets can only be destroyed in hyper specific circumstances that don't actually mean anything or you need a primordial entity that can actually match or surpass gaia
A great example of such bullshit circumstance is shinjuku where rules were bent to destroy a planet that already wasn't the actual thing and wouldn't have effected anything
Yet regardless bullshit had to be done to make it possible at all even then
fate has characters that can destroy planets but that usualy doesnt happen cause gaia wouldnt allow it.
like arjuna alter who is technically capable of destroying earth but gaia would prevent that from happening.
he also could only do that when he was a lostbelt king because gaia allowed him to dismantle and recreate the world since theres no real harm done to it.
his servant version cant cause gaia and alaya prevent it from happening.
the most he can do with his np as a servant is to trap enemies in a seperate space then blow it up.
the ultimate ones are also capable of destroying planets but they wouldnt do that cause they exist to protect the celestial bodies in the solar system from outside threats.
there are however beings that can not only destroy planets but the entire universe if they wanted to/were left unchecked.
theyre the primordials that existed befor the solar system was a thing and are classified as cosmological dead ends.
theyre so far the strongest beings in fate dwarfing everything else.
members of that group are the primordial mothership chaos, the primordial arc of life tiamat, the umbral star and the outer gods.
Also most of the vs debates forget about the world of the Nasu verse and its aspect and this is why I thought its dumb by not mentioning the earth has so many shinanigans to prevent every np of servants or their feats that is beyond planetary being wrap in a size of a mountain and that is kinda sad.
and because of that, there are still people who believe that the nasuverse is weak, and that no one in it has the power to destroy planets because of da Vinci's lines. others use the argument that people don't understand the author's view and so on. they don't seem to understand that it takes a lot more energy to destroy something in the entire timeline than just destroying the present version of this object. it doesn't matter if it's just a mountain or the entire surface of the planet, if it's done at all points of the timeline, the feat becomes multiversal, because it's directly destroying something in 4 dimensions (or in 6, if you consider past present and future as the dimensions of time) and in the case of nasuverse, destroying the planet would necessarily have to be a destruction in 6 dimensional ms because of the existence of Avalon in the center of the planet
@@gabiel402 Question. I also heard The World in Fate has some layers or dimensions within it along with its own "space-time". What do you think of this?
@@fancyxemon2706 I think it's true but to explain its more complicated to explain since alaya and gaia is the one that protects it
@@gabiel402 The nasuverse being weak is hopefully a fucking good thing. It makes things make actual sense and keeps the stakes up.
@@r.k845 Nasu is kinda goofy in that it's simultaneously low power but high power, just because of everything high tier fucking with conceptual warfare instead of dbz strong guy break planet
Also void shiki can just wish the world away with wish granting, not exactly destroying the planet but still proves that servants can be summoned with the capability to destroy planets.
I mean, sure, that'd be an overkill like no other, but there’s no way Void Shiki as Saber Class Servant is just as powerful as her in-life counterpart, The Throne of Heroes could never contain something like that.
@@Marionic9001 when summoned void shiki maintains her connection to the root as a skill which marks her as a all powerful wish granting device which means she's likely still got her powers and can still use them but she just doesn't.
@@mysticme9238 She has some of her abilities true, but to what degree we don’t know. She has ability to change her parameters though…
Yeah, now that I think about it, there's actually statements saying that she does not want to involve herself in anything, so all we know she could still be strongest Servant in existence, but definitely not as strong as living Void Shiki.
@@Marionic9001 Void Shiki does specifically state in one instance where she thought there was a Beast around that she was glad that Mephistolies was just a "Beast of Alaya" As if he had been a "Beast of Gaia" she wouldn't have been able to do anything
@@Marionic9001 Wrong
About heroic spirits, servants and their originals, as far as I see the scale is so the one on the throne > the original version > the invoked version. because, quite simply, the one on the throne is a combination of the royal version, plus any sufficiently famous fanciful qualities related to the servant. an example for this would be excalibur itself, of course the nasuverse version has always been able to fire the energy beam, but its property as a holy sword came from myths. For example, Saint George's Sword never had anti-dragon properties when it existed, but as a Noble Phantasm it gains this property. therefore, those who are on the throne are empowered by their own legends, being above the original selves, however the original selves are above their versions summoned as servants. take the example of jeane darc, her original hey couldn't summon an energy shield from her banner, but as a heroic spirit she becomes capable, her original self can't do it but it's stronger in power novels
Yeah, pretty much, though there are exceptions… non-combat types like author Servants & other modern heroes that held little mystery in life are way stronger as Servants, as their bodies are made of & strengthened by mystery now, beyond how humans are (which their living selves were)… Stheno & Eyrale are also stated to have become stronger than in life when summoned as Servants.
The Original Heroic Spirit in the Throne is supposedly stronger than all the versions of any given Servant manifestation put together, since they’re above/not restrained by containers, meaning that even weakest genuine legit Heroic Spirit in the Throne is stronger than a Servant with Beast or Grand Class Containers, as containers are still limits applied to Heroic Spirits.
Dunno how this relates to video topic though?
@@Marionic9001 Wrong
This is a very well made video, but you did misrepresent the debunk of planetary servants that people cite in Shinjuku.
@ 9:20 “Even at full power, a top Servants Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn’t break *an entire planet apart.”*
This isn’t referring to Earth, but a random planet in general.
The next statement confirms that she was referring to planets in general. *”Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed”* implying she does acknowledge anti-planet NP’s are strong enough to destroy planets.
So in summary: according to Da Vinci, top tier servants she was aware of couldn’t destroy an entire planet, and if there were NP’s that could destroy a planet, they could not destroy the Earth in particular due to the counter force.
No, Da Vinci is not referring to any random planet. Immediately following that statement, she elaborates, word for word stating that “even if Anti-Planet (Planet destroying) Noble Phantasm existed, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy THIS ONE” -AKA their specific Planet, due to the Counter Force ect. ruclips.net/video/WBfAi2N7Vg8/видео.html at 2:40:07 - 2:40:22
Also, it’s fine too if she was talking about a random planet in general, because all Planets in Nasuverse are implied to have their own Ultimate Ones safe guarding them (maybe they don’t have Alaya type safe-guards ect. due to most of them lacking intelligent life to produce collective unconscious, but Gaia would be free game for every planet in the verse).
If we interpret that she’s talking about any random planet, she’d be talking about in-verse planets.
Later Holmes confirms that destruction of Earth is entirely possible for mid-tier like Moriarty with crazy prep ect. if the World is removed from History & Counter Force at 3:08:23 - 3:26:23
@@Marionic9001 “top servants can’t destroy an entire planet” (planet without counterforce) “and even if anti-planet NP’s exist, they can’t destroy this one”(referring to Earth and assuming its counterforce is in play).
Da Vinci is stating that anti-planet NP’s are NP’s that can destroy planets. Her questioning their existence implies that the servants she was aware of can’t muster the power to destroy counterforce-less planets.
It is pretty clear that it’s not referring to Earth in the first sentence and that she believes servants can’t destroy planets without counterforces.
Moriarty with prep and a lot of outside factors like the phantom heroic spirits and the Bennu meteor and a lot of tomfoolery can destroy a planet, but not top tier servants like Salter (who explicitly could not destroy even the city of Shinjuku due to it being infused with True Ether, which the meteor would smash along with the entire earth)
Moriarty with all that prep would have killed them all had they not stopped the Bennu meteor from becoming the 7th bullet.
@@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892 "Her questioning their existence implies that the servants she was aware of can’t muster the power to destroy counterforce-less planets."
- Literally contradicted by orgy of evidence presented in the video.
Also, you do realize that there’s direct scaling for high-tiers to Anti-Planet NP’s that you regard as be all & end all of planet busting...? Hector & Herc under amps both blocked Artemis’ Shooting Star Ortygia, Saber Venus is barely impressive with crap parameters and has feat that f*cking base Archimedes is comparable to (defeating Veber II) & Voyger isn’t particularly powerful among Servants either...
Not that it matters as NP classifications just signify range so it doesn’t exclude any other NP from being that level…
"It is pretty clear that it’s not referring to Earth in the first sentence and that she believes servants can’t destroy planets without counterforces."
- Again, it doesn’t matter if she was referring to Earth or not as I explained, but yes, she was referring to Earth. It’s not like she changed subject from random planet no-one in the conversation was talking about (Yan Qing & Holmes in both conversations Da Vinci is replying to SPECIFICALLY start by talking about the Earth), the first part of her sentence refers to Earth & second one specifies what she means by that.
"Moriarty with prep and a lot of outside factors like the phantom heroic spirits and the Bennu meteor and a lot of tomfoolery can destroy a planet, but not top tier servants like Salter"
- Moriarty literally gave himself NP of not even Heroic Spirit-level wraith, but a fodder ass Phantom Spirit & utilized it for Planet Busting in favorable circumstances. The reason why the ability is even on that level is specifically because of Moriarty being Heroic Spirit (a fodder one mind you who’s not even Demon God-level on his own), so it’s not like it’s giving him that massive of an amp, just a specific tool. The power aspect comes mainly from him if you really wish to be technical.
Also, High-tiers scale to Moriarty’s prep anyway, Saber Alter & Emiya Alter destroy Bennu (confirmed to be planetary by Da Vinci & Moriarty) with ease, so the point about her being able to bust Shinjuku is utterly moot, among numerous other supporting feats they scale to.
@@Marionic9001 “literally contradicted by orgy of evidence presented in this video.”
I was *only* talking about the Da Vinci statement in isolation and In this instance and on its own. *Never* have I claimed it debunks every bit of evidence of planetary servants ever. This is utterly irrelevant to my argument, all I am doing here from the start is criticising you for misrepresenting the debunk people cite in Shinjuku. Please do not bring up extraneous details from other events and feats when I am talking specifically about this statement.
“At full power, a top servants NP almost certainly can’t break *an* entire planet apart. And *even if an Anti-Planet NP existed,* on paper, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy *this one.”*
Both English language and logic conventions quite clearly show that she is saying top servants cannot destroy an entire planet (“an entire planet” = generality) and her saying “even if anti-planet NP’s existed” that is her indirectly claiming anti-planets can destroy planets, while top servants cannot.
Her then saying “even if anti-planet NP’s existed, on paper, they cannot destroy this one” is the only part of the statement where she is specifically referring to the Earth.
So in summary: top servants Da Vinci was aware of, according to her, almost certainly couldn’t break an entire planet apart. And also according to her, Anti-Planet NP’s are able to destroy a planet, but not Earth (which later we learn she believes is due to the counterforce).
This is the correct way of reading this statement. You can disagree, but you’d be just wrong. I am not even saying this completely debunks planetary servants, I never have. If you still believe servants are planetary then that is your prerogative and it’s not illogical of you to discard Da Vinci’s statements here. But claiming it doesn’t contradict planetary servants is just wrong on all accounts.
________________________________________
Your whole point on NP-classifications “just signifying range” is just blatantly false btw.
*”Fate/Zero animation guide: A noble phantasm that is powerful enough to blow away even a sturdy castle. Significantly higher power than anti-unit and anti-army noble phantasms, but it consumes a massive amount of mana and is difficult to use in quick succession. Saber’s Sword of Promised Victory (Excalibur) belongs to this category.”*
And in case you still weren’t convinced: Fate/Prototype Fragments of Silver Blue on Stella:
“Even if it had been categorically established as an anti-army Noble Phantasm to the bitter end, the overall amount of generated prana and the effective scope of it would be anti-country, and it’d be equally ranked with an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm if they were talking about *pure power”*
It is a mixture of range, overall generated prana, and pure power that decides the classification - not just range.
To make it more plainly, Da Vinci is stating this:
“X cannot destroy Y, and even if Z existed, it cannot destroy Y+C”
Implication here is Z can destroy Y.
I really like the video man
That's interesting. I have not seen this series before. 👌
Really now? Well, if you’re interested on getting into the series I can make suggestions where to start. It's pretty complicated stuff, but really fun time.
Smash Power Scaling coming later this year btw.
@@Marionic9001 I can only get intrigued in a new series naturally. Thanks anyway!
@@Marionic9001 Wrong
Okay you have convinced me that some servants range from the planet busting to solar system, galaxy, universal, and low - mid multiversal busting now depending on the version and circumstances of their existence.
Though the outerversal feats I am still questioning due to HP Lovecraft's works being before the time the term outerversal was made which comic vine has pointed out in their Yog Sothoth vs Eternity thread which I saw. The outerversal stuff was added by authors after HP Lovecraft was gone. So the Fate outerversal stuff I will be questioning the variety of for now.
With that out of the way I got to say this video was very well thought out and had patient hard work put through it. Well done bravo I commend you for your endeavor. Alot better then Bleach Hub's videos those were just a mess. He believes conceptual weapons are automatically outerversal which is just ridiculous from my point of view.
Well yeah, I’m very iffy about the Outerversal stuff in Fate as well, it’s a possibility, but I don’t think it’s clear cut or 100% consistent (especially for standard Servants), so that’s why I mention that stuff only in passing.
Though I’d like to note that term “outerversal” not being invented when Lovecraft made his works doesn’t disprove anything in Cthulhu mythos being outerversal, that’s like saying that because term "planet buster" wasn’t invented when Superman/whoever destroyed a planet for the first time, it's not planetary, even if that feat would clearly be on planet-lvl (obviously hypotethical example). It just means that Lovecraft had outerversal feats before the term for that kind of scale was conceived… similar to how many religions have had concepts that are Outerversal/beyond description for thousands of years, but the word didn’t exist to classify them until recently.
"The outerversal stuff was added by authors after HP Lovecraft was gone"
- Pretty sure Hypnos, Dunwitch Horror & Silver Key-series are all directly written by him, all which feature Outerversal/beyond Dimensional stuff. Not a Lovecraft expert as you can see, but I’m 100% certain that those books are canon to his original work (btw, those 3 are the main works Salem Singularity draws its inspiration from. It all becomes quite funny after you’ve gotten to know all the references).
"The Fate outerversal stuff I will be questioning the variety of for now."
- As you should.
"With that out of the way I got to say this video was very well thought out and had patient hard work put through it. Well done bravo I commend you for your endeavor."
- Thanks man, appreciate it, lot of work did go into this (rest in peace computer, you served me well).
"Alot better then Bleach Hub's videos those were just a mess. He believes conceptual weapons are automatically outerversal which is just ridiculous from my point of view."
- Yeah, that’s not how this (or anything) works. If you wield a concept of, let’s say, a Sword, it’s not outerversal for some reason, as sword is 3rd dimensional object & it’s concept would be the essence of that 3D thing known as Sword. Platonic Concept is the one that would be outerversal, as it contains all possible forms of a set concept, including every dimensional version of it.
@@Marionic9001
Thanks for replying though there is one important note I like to address.
There's more to it on that Comicvine thread called; "Yog-Sothoth (Cthulhu Mythos) vs Multi-Eternity (Marvel Comics)" then I mentioned. I only simplified what was going on. The whole modern cosmology thing I mentioned coming after Lovercraft's death was only one of many points that the group in the thread pointed out. There were several other points about the actual power of the Original Lovecraft Cthulhu Mythos they brought up.
Now I don't agree with them brushing off the term outerversal as nonsensical but they did brought up some good points regarding the words Lovecraft used in his writings and it being up to interpretation.
Like this one guy in the thread called Sungsam who pointed out the Original Lovecraft Cosmology like this and I quote:
static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11134/111343371/6841449-6069266422-68138.jpg
"Repeating yourself doesn't make you correct. Even with all that, mental gymnastics.
"Finite Dimensions" - Lovecraft.
"Archetypal and Eternal in the Space OUTSIDE dimensions." - Lovecraft.
6-D Yog loses. GG.
If you are an Archetypal Infinity/Eternity only infinitely above 5-D and FINITE dimensions, you are just 6-D.
Because people cannot read the word FIINIITE. Nowadays."
- Sungsam.
Now I do disagree with some of their assertions though they did give some valid points worth mentioning especially by the users Sungsam and Zgtfreak.
Though there was a user by the name of Zerothcause who tried making a good case to defend the cosmology of the Cthulhu Mythos the other two users were able to make their own detail cases why they don't believe in the outerversal Cthulhu Mythos stuff Lovecraft made. Even though the thread has some insults thrown around this did change point of view about the cosmology of the original Cthulhu Mythos. I hope you can understand why.
@@Marionic9001
I do got one question how is the alien simulation computer thingy in Fate Extra CCC exactly 8th dimensional?
@@Marionic9001
I think I have been finding information that may contradict the whole multiversal Fate Extra CCC thing as of late would you like to see what I have found?
@@thorshammer7883 I can see where the confusion lies yes, but I don’t know the context for those statements.
It seems more like Lovecraft is talking about something effecting all finite Dimensions (any finite uncountable amount?) or something, then talks about Archetypal stuff outside it... or something. Don’t know how that somehow makes the verse 5 or 6D. I mean, I’m kinda just assuming those finite dimensions are Higher Dimensions, so could be wrong.
But still, those Lovecraft works I pointed out feature Outerversal stuff (or can be implied to be such, especially when coupled with later works)
"The Old Ones are, Old Ones have been, and Old Ones shall be. not in the spaces we tread, but between them. They walk serene, and primal, UNDIMENSIONED, and to us, unseen." - The Dunwitch Horror
That thread also has (seemingly) a statement from Hypnos I believe, calling worlds of Men & Gods (3D world) is infinitesimal part of structure of Infinite Higher Dimensions, all which are below first Gate (where Outer Gods lie):
“every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension-as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity. The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing-the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate”
-Among others, by ZerothCause, what Sungsam bases his belief of it going only up to 5D… I don’t know?
Also, Fate seems to use Lovecraftian Mythos in general, and not just stuff by OG author, similar how they treat other Servants Lore. The stuff with Sut-Typhon/Yog-Sothot is also specifically mentioned to extend to every possible Dimension 40:22
Again, possible, but I wouldn’t use it.
If only you bother to read before criticize other
Da Vincci specifically says that even a top servent's NP at full power can not break the planet apart. She only mentions the counter force for any Anti-Planet NP that might hypothetically exists on paper.
She or nether Holmes said that any top servant's NP can destroy planet if it isn't for Counter-force, its only apply for Anti-Planet NP that wasn't discovered at that time.
Facts and well done said.
What seems to be the problem here officer? I accounted for that in the video too, from here to Sunday, actually.
Da Vinci is specifically talking about Earth with that Anti-Planet comment (”even if one existed it couldn’t destroy THIS ONE”), but even if we interpret that she’s actually saying that even Anti-Planets can’t destroy ”any random planet” or that Anti-Planets can, but NP's that arent that Type can't, we can talk about that too:
Holmes literally explains that it can be done, actually, directly talking about Da Vinci’s earlier statement IF Counter Force does not stop it, & Moriarty is creating an Anti-Planet NP in Shinjuku that will succeed if fired.
Most importantly, there are orgy of feats that would contradict the statement if it wasn’t debunked by Holmes… we have actual statements & characters being able to destroy planets, powered by stars or planets & literally universal and beyond, quite consistently. And yes, those were not Anti-Planet NP's half the time. The NP type is more of a qualifier of range & bonus effects, not for AP anyway.
Thirdly, as this one was less explored in the video (only mentioned) planet itself is made up of layers (Textures) that are Higher Dimensional in nature, like Reverse Side & Avalon, so those are always factors for why many NPs can't bust within Nasuverse despite having Universal powers (no idea how Moriarty could’ve destroyed all of those too with a f*cking rock though, maybe planets core dying kills rest of it or something, if it’s isolated from normal history).
We are talking about destroying a regular planet here, not even Fate planet without Counter Force. Just regular planet like ours.
Responding here after this long since I don't think anyone else has brought up these points yet.
@@Marionic9001 Again your are wrong because Da Vincci confirmed that most Noble Phantasm doesn't have the fire power to affect the whole planet in her first comment. In second comment Even if there are Anti-Planet NP (there only like 5 or 8 of them) it won't go past the counter force or require a lot of mana to destroy a planet which a servant usually lacks.
Moriatity plan require a lot of prep, condition and power to the other servant just to summon an Asteroid and hit the person he like aka the protagonist in other to reach Anti-planet level. Even that is just surface level because Asteroid can't destroy an whole planet.
All the statetment you are referring to are poetic language to exaggerate a servant's lore that some fate fans take it face value.
@@ishaqyousuf1332 Alright, let us analyze the exact word & their wider context (even though I already did):
Da Vinci: ”Come now. You’re just making up nonsense now. There’s no way that could actually happen.” - Da Vinci does not believe it’s possible. She later gives context why, when the subject is brought up again in later conversation, like we are well aware.
”Even at full power, Top Servants NP ALMOST certainly couldn’t break entire planet apart” - This statement is fine, since most of Servants whom they know do not posses NP’s that have the range to enqulf entire planet. Even if their AP was above like, infinity, it wouldn’t destroy the planet, since damage is localized, right? Anti-Planet is only to signify that given NP can target entire planets, since NP classifications are specified for desired area/effect, not power. That’s what Ranks are for (though, the vid talks about AP in certain points as well, so Anti-Planet requirement is moot anyway to qualify in my eyes). I also find it funny how she settles on ALMOST certainly, as if she’s not sure.
”Earth has number of SAFETY PROVISIONS in place. He (Moriarty) can’t possibly subvert all of them!” - This is the wider context under which Da Vinci was making her previous claims. Safety provisions obviously refer to Couter Force, though it’s hinted that both Alay & Gaia have other ways to monitor & fight threats too…
” if Anti-Planet NP existed, ON PAPER, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy THIS ONE” - Da Vinci implies that this very particular planet (Nasuverse Earth) may resist Anti-Planet NPs ect. while I’m not talking about that Earth, but ours. Anti-Planet not being able to destroy Nasuverse’s Earth as she specifies, is belief she holds due to the safety measures. Without them, it would be possible, as Holmes soon clarifies. Strange that Chaldea’s smartest does not know any Anti-Planet NPs though, I guess she’s not counting Divine Spirits that have them in legends? The ones that only show up in FGO (like Voyager or Kiara) I’m ok for her not knowing tho.
Holmes: ”About destroying this planet… in brief, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE” - Pretty verbatim claim. Holmes’ next couple of statements expain why he says this.
”Barring the sudden appearance of alien visitors, it is extremely unlikely that any of us born here could TRULY destroy it” - This statement is kinda interesting, since Holmes doesn’t necessarily seem to believe anyone in human history can TRULY destroy Earth when safety’s on, despite some feats in the series implying it (just in the last Arc for example), but this is more or less completely reasonable, seeing that he’s talking about Earth with it’s safety measures
Holmes then goes on how Lion King & Edison tried to separate their worlds/people from Human History. He does this to lead the conversation to his actual conclusion about the point he made in the beginning. Da Vinci & Moriarty already realize what he’s leading up to.
”It is not possible to destroy the world. However, it is possible to remove it from history. In other words…” Ritsuka: ”if world is removed from history… then it can be destroyed? - in other words, Counter Force & safety measures in place would prevent anything that can destroy (Nasuverse) Earth. Those do not apply anymore when planet is booted out of history. Then sufficient power can destroy it.
Holmes & Moriarty: ”WELL DONE!” - confirmation. Interestingly, Da Vinci implies that a version of The Throne in Shinjuku’s Earth won’t disappear, as Servants unique to it’s circumstances can still be accessed. Weird. Just a note.
”It is true that with the world divided, it’s safeguards would fail to work. Nonetheless destroying entire planet should remain utterly unfathomable. What do you think you (Moriarty) would need to make such destruction possible?” - again, Holmes implies that there does not exist means to do it, but then he talks about what Moriarty in this Shinjuku would specifically need to do to accomplish this. From this, it can be argued that Holmes only believes that anything currently present in1999 Earth can’t do the job, thus the meteor. After Moriarty confirms his suspicion about the meteor being enough, they both agree that the fodder meteor that 2 characters scale to & a phantom Spirit of all things is using as NP, can destroy the planet.
To summarize, yes, it can be done, if sufficient power & range, like with meteor we see as example, are used, WHEN COUNTER FORCE ECT. ARE OFF. Anti-Planets definitely can too when safety’s off, & others may as well if they have feats that prove it.
Not to mention, even IF Da Vinci’s & Holmes' statement flat out said it can’t be done, even if planet lacks it’s safety methods & we have range to do it, & it was to be taken as some absolute rule of the series’ lore that said no-matter what it can’t be argued against in it’s context, even in scenario like that, we’d still have like 58+ feats (quick math) of feats that are planetary & beyond (by our standard, not Nasuverses), not counting questionable feats, versus one statement saying it can’t be done. Now there’s a question which of the two is more consistent, 58 or one.
@@Marionic9001 You fate fanboys are always so stubborn in wanting to stomp others
Can't wait to see Oberon-Vortigen's assessment when It comes to world ending. Imagine if in Apocrypha were Shakespeare able to summon him.
I had no idea about Britain’s Lostbelt & utter crazyness the characters would get up to there as of the making of the video, , so unfortunately Oberon-Vortigern isn’t featured here.
Shame, since Oberon is one of my favorites from Lostbelt saga too ;_;
also I think qin shi huang np is an authority by extending to the world and granted himself advantage anywhere. Basically a territory creation to higher degree without territory creation skill.
Kind of sad you didn't go over Karna's feat from his legend where with his bow he pushed back Arjuna's chariot, which Krishna himself said was supposed to be impossible. For context Arjuna's chariot is stated to be the embodiment of the Universe at the highest or the galaxy. These were casual attacks from Karna.
Editing this to say this is a great video cause I forgot to say that. About time people start to realize Fate characters are not just mountain level.
Oh shoot, I knew Mahabata was hiding some crazy feats.
It’s so long that I just scimmed internet if I could find some to mention (quantifiably) but in the end decided against it, in-case I would’ve come out looking like I didn’t really know what I was talking about, considering I’ve yet to really get into the full story, aside from summaries.
Glad you liked the video!
@@Marionic9001 Don't worry about it man, mythology is long and complicated. Good job with the video, hope to see more.
@@Marionic9001
Also people really think Karna would be weaker as an Archer
@@theflyingace611 Depends on how his toolkit would change. Rider might have more NP's but lower parameters, while Archer would be about same as Lancer, but lose Vasavi Shakti in favor of another NP, so I dunno if it would a good trade.
I guess Kavacha & Kindala come with every class though?
I can't remember if there exists statements comparing his classes, though Vasavi Shakti is pretty much hyped as his best weapon, so maybe Lancer is the best class for him...?
@@Marionic9001
We have no statements comparing his classes and it's probably unlikely we'll ever get Karna in a different class (Santa doesn't count), but I think Vasavi Shakti would stay in his kit.
If you look into the lore of the weapon Vasavi Shakti is stated to be Indra's dart, a projectile. I just imagine he would string it in his bow and shoot it like an arrow rather than using it to fire a laser beam. Of course I can be wrong.
Also if Karna would get more Np's as a Rider that would be scary, cause he already has 3-4 as a Lancer considering if you consider his version of Brahmasta (not Brahmastra Kundala) as a Noble Phantasm.
Pls part 2 now for speed and other stuff of you want or can. If you don't want its fine I understand.
Maybe I will, but I have many other projects on my platter before that. Who knows…
One thing I’ll definitively make at some point is Nasuverse & Fate Cosmology explanation & scaling video, I feel like lot of people (including myself) need that kind of video
@@Marionic9001 Yup we really need that and I see you doing well, keep up the good work man and take care. Looking forward to it and as always love the vid I can't get enough of it.
@@Marionic9001 You're never winning a debate
You forgot romulus quirinus that can destroy a solar system
More fate
Excelente video
Another point against Karna is that while Astolpho can use the NPs of other people he can't use them at their full strength
Okay I think I got a new suggestion one that you are familiar with.
How about a powerscaling video on the Archie or Game Sonic series? Would that work for your powerscaling videos?
It's guaranteed that I will do one eventually, for both actually.
Not in near future, but someday...
@@Marionic9001 Wrong
So basically the answer is yes, but is is very complicated
Thank you for making the video about Planet Buster, that is important because most people don't know how strong Fate is. Now next up is the truth scale Fate. So, Fate is not just Planet or Universe Level, this video proves that a planet can get destroyed by any Servants. (Planet completely).
So, next up is about BB Moon Cancer in Fate game as a cannon. BB said, "It's a perfectly spherical spiritron defense wall that cuts through eight dimensions." which is a Complex Multiverse (Complex Multiverse completely).
Then about Void Shiki, she is Outerversal or High Outerversal, Idk how to explain, maybe it's too long to say or explain (I can't explain very well)... Maybe you can research Void Shiki's cosmology, if you already know then that is good (Outerversal/High Outerversal completely).
I keep hearing people say Saber is 6D, I feel I think the reason she gets Nerf is by summoning which makes sense.
So, Fate's scale at best is Complex Multiverse - Outerversal. I'm not biased or downplaying, just research if you don't believe me. It might be too long to research because Fate should have a lot of information.
Yeah bro, Extra series is crazy thanks to Mooncell
I actually don’t know about Void Shiki being this outerversal being anymore... I used to buy into it, but then every time she actually shows up, she has these weird statements and non-feats that make her look really weird. Like, apparently it was Void Shiki in OG Melty Blood, where their ending has them run away from Archetype Earth (extremely powerful being, but nowhere near The Root) & FGO has her state that Beasts of Gaia would be too much for them…?
Shiki is connected to Akasha AKA The Root, which yes, is BARE MIN. Outerversal & pretty much no-one scales to it, but connecting to something doesn’t scale you o the entire thing. For example, Green Lantern’s Power Ring is connected to fundamental Multiversal power of Emotional Spectrum, but only tiny fraction of it is usable to them at any point in time. It is reasonable to assume same applies to Void Shiki, since they lack any showings on the scale of The Root, & there are other things in the franchise that points to the conclusion of their ability to quote ”do anything” be ability to effect & do anything but only to certain degree.
We can see this in effect with character Manaka Sayo, from Fate Prototype Fragments of Sky Silver (Proto Arthur’s first master). She’s notoriously been connected to The Root since birth, and has many statements how she can do anything & is omnipotent ect. but all that comes with context of her being able to do any-thing, but not everything. She can perform literally any Magecraft, but her Magic Circuits only allow certain outputof it, so she can perform all things, but not to their utmost highest degree ever. In other words, her body & soul have limits that don’t allow her to make full use of her ”omnipotence”. If you read the translations for Prototype, she herself even admits she can’t beat likes of Proto Arthur or Brynhild, or Beast in straight fight, because while she has versatility, she does not have the power.
Void Shiki might very well operate under same logic.
6D is for Avalon specifically, it is repeatedly stated to be 6th-Dimensional Defense in all the side materials talking about it. Artoria herself is not 6D being, but has a defensive armament that is 6D (normally she doesn’t have it though).
@@Marionic9001 Well, my friend already proved to me that Void Shiki is Outerversal, Idk. Also, we still have Artoria Pendragon (Unseal Avalon), Tiamat, Morgan, Beast Nero, and more that are Outerversal.
@@Animfateblade874 Beast & Grand Class tier of characters are higher dimensional yes, I say as much in the video, but where on Earth are you getting them being outer from?
@@Marionic9001 Idk, I would ask my friend.
@@Marionic9001 I don't think he would listen to me and he speak quick that Fate can't destroy the planet because of Counter Force. Anyway, tell me what is your Discord then you can talk with him.
Let me questions, do Servants still able to destroy the planets or universes due Counter Force? I know Counter Force nerf most Servants but still able to destruction them?
As explored in the video at various points, Servants can’t destroy Earth in Nasuverse precisely due to Counter Force (and other factors), but in any other verse where they would be dealing with ordinary planet/universe, it would be free game.
@@Marionic9001 So, that mean they are still Universe level and above but can't destroy universe and above due Counter Force, right?
@@Animfateblade874 Yes.
Only the absolute god tiers are ever seen as to be able to bypass the Counter Force to threaten the planet (or the Universe) under their own power. Beasts like Goetia & Kiara were such beings, as well as Lostbelt Arjuna Alter & Zeus.
@@Marionic9001 Oh so, it's only Strongest Servants? If that is so then that is good to hear.
Raw power wise? Maybe if we are talking about artoria or Gilgamesh or some other top tier power house of the series but the issue here is two main things
They would need actually unlimited mana to get the job done,and the "world" is actually two forces that can absolutely prevent this from happening
Even if we removed the restrictions servants inherently have then counter guardians like archer shirou emiya pop up and cheese the hell out of Gilgamesh or our beloved saber
they can destroy planets in other series. not in type moon
7:29 At no point in the narration it is stated the planet is ar risk of being blown up, destroyed or otherwise killed. And the scale shown in the manga is far from planet busting. That line of "all the planet's mana" in the manga is a mistranslation, in reality it's just saying "All the mana is gathering in one place". The idea that a mere Servant like Enkidu could wield "all of the planet's mana" is ludicrous. And Enkidu's Enuma Elish increasing in power against things that threaten the planet OR humanity doesn't mean that every single thing it works on is capable of destroying either, only that its threat to them is bigger.
10:12 Da Vinci's statement is in three parts:
Conclusive Statement 1: "Even at full power, a top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet apart.". "An entire planet" is here used generally, as opposed of being about Earth in particular. This is an informed statement that Da Vinci can make because Chaldea has recorded many Top Servant NPs. No one ever disagrees with this statement from her throughout all of Shinjuku, despite Artoria being right there with the strongest Holy Sword, a top Servant with one of the strongest NPs in the verse.
Hypothetical: "Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed". This is an hypothetical that Da Vinci raises to reinforce her point that Moriarty's plan is impossible. Chaldea has no record of an Anti-Planet NP up until that point, but she's now addressing the idea that maybe there's one out there. (And as we learned later in Shinjuku, Moriarty indeed arranged to possess an Anti-Planet NP, the only one that can destroy a planet that we ever see a regular Servant have.)
Conclusive Statement 2: "It wouldn't be enough to destroy this one.". This is her answer to the hypothetical situation where a Servant had an Anti-Planet NP; that even in that case, they couldn't destroy the Earth because of its defenses (as she elaborates on in the later conversation). This is not directly related to her previous statement that Top Servants cannot destroy planets, because she's using an hypothetical to presume the existence of a Servant that can do it. This is the part of her statement that she's situationally wrong about, because in Shinjuku the defenses that that conclusion relies on are offline.
So taking the situational context that she was wrong about into account, the corrected form of her statement would be "Even at full power, a top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet. If an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed, on paper it could destroy this one.".
Moreover, Moriarty's plan to destroy the planet involves guiding Bennu into a gun barrel towards the center of the planet and destroy the Earth's core. This is something completely irrelevant to Moriarty's strength as a Servant. Not to mention that regular Servant Moriarty can't even shoot Bennu as a bullet. The actual meteor itself merely striking the planet's surface would not even cause an extinction event.
And the actual Bennu required fucking Excalibur and Unlimited Lost Works to be neutralized, a feat combination that is very much top tier amongst Servants. Emiya Alter's Noble Phantasm being specially suited to destroying physical objects is also outside of his standing as a Servant. I particularly don't understand how you could consider a Reality Marble composed of thousands of NP swords growing inside of you to be anything but a top tier ability.
11:47 Goetia's magical energy output with Ars Almadel Salomonis is quite literally stated to be the highest in the entire setting so far, him being actually capable of destroying the planet with it has literally no relevancy to Servants, not even Grand Servants scale to it in any way. Goetia isn't a Servant btw so I don't even know why you're mentioning him.
12:53 Surtr isn't quite as powerful as Goetia but his level of power is still irrelevant to Servants. Just to block his NP for a few moments it was required the efforts of a true living god (Skadi), a High-Servant comprised of multiple Divine Spirits (Sitonai) using the power of a top tier Servant (Heracles) another top tier Servant (Sigurd), a high tier Servant (Brynhildr) and a Vakyrie of Odin (Ortlinde) which would be at least mid tier. Most of these mofos using the power of Primordial Runes in tandem and straining themselves beyond their limits just to buy a few more seconds until Surtr's attack is interrupted. And BTW, Surtr "killing of the planet" involves him incinerating the Earth's surface and all land on it, not mass scattering or vaporizing it like a Death Star, so this is on the lower end of planetary destruction.
14:00 Servant Universe stuff does not in fact scale to other Servants due to being a joke parody from a completely different universe that is not taken seriously or meant to fit with the lore of the regular universe. High tier Servants like Mordred are explicitly incapable of destroying a small meteor, as was shown in Lostbelt 3. Requiring Spartacus to kill himself while being boosted by a Command Spell to match the power of the meteor and destroy it.
19:49 The world within Achilles Cosmos is not an entire world, it is described as a miniature world, the world that Achilles saw and lived in, so at beast it would only be the Greek Texture, far from an entire planet surface. On top of that, according the novel narration Vasavi Shakti explicitly failed to kill/destroy the world within the shield, only the gods in it. So the shield might have broken because it is in the end a divine construct forged by a god, faced against a god-killing spear.
20:58 No dude, Amakusa's NP is nothing like a black hole, in either power or function. It's just an orb of pseudo-black matter that swallows things like a vacuum cleaner. It doesn't even involve gravity in any way. The power to create a legitimate black hole is something only reserved to beings like that of the Foreign God, who is powerful enough to the point she can fight 7 Grand Servants and fucking survive, being the second strongest being Chaldea has fought, second only to Goetia. Absorbing a conceptual attack is a meaningless feat to determine its destructive power.
22:00 Wrong for several reasons. The planet Venus that she warps to is not the real planet Venus, it's in fact not even a planet at all, it's just what the people of ancient Mesopotamia thought Venus was. And Ishtar doesn't even shoot that thing which is not a planet, she fires the concept of something that is not a planet.
23:14 No, that's not evidence of holy swords having planetary AP, Galatine merely contains a pseudo sun in its hilt. Words like copy, pseudo or miniature are all indicative that the thing is not 1:1 to what it resembles. This is like arguing that CHALDEAS, the miniature copy of the planet's soul is equal to the real thing, absurd.
24:53 Kiara does not literally grow to that size, what the fuck are you even talking about? That's just a visual representation of the meaning and symbolism of what her NP actually does.
30:28 Myth Achilles does in no way scale to the gods, he ran away for his life when faced with the god of a mere river. And at no point does he or anyone he scales to fight a god without divine intervention helping them. In fact, most of the Greek heroes don't scale favorably to the gods at all. Heracles is one of the few notable exceptions.
How the fuck does Ozymandias scale to the gods in myth when the dude is literally a real life person? Even in the Nasuverse he's below the gods as he needs a Holy Grail with the Demon God Pillar Amon just to become the Divine Spirit Amun-Ra.
33:17 You haven't established that Tiamat has planet busting destructive power, much less durability for the Servants in Babylonia to scale to them damaging her. Being higher dimensional in the Nasuverse is a mostly meaningless statements, as it only refers to that being a higher order lifeform.
33:53 The universe within the context of Kama's abilities refers to a conceptual universe, not the real one.
36:28 This statement does not refer to Amaterasu at all, but about Tamamo if she were to regain her 9 tails. The statement is also a mistranslation, it does not talk about the "multiverse", but the 三千世界 (sanzen-sekai, "three thousand worlds"), which itself is an abbreviation of the Buddhist cosmological term 三千大千世界 (sanzen-daisen-sekai, "three thousand great thousand worlds"), which is a translation of Trisahasra-Mahasahasra-Lokadhatu -- renderable in English as "Trichiliomegachiliocosm." What Nasu's version of sanzen-sekai means in practical terms (in the context of the Human Order / the Greater History of Man) is unknown. Therefore, making generalizations about it isn't very meaningful.
36:37 No, the Japanese name for the Craft Essence of Achilles Cosmos is 世界を内包せしもの, which translates to "The World Within". It does not use the term for universe (宇宙) or cosmos, but world (世界) like in the anti-world NP classification.
37:39 God Arjuna's Mahapralaya only destroys the surface of the Earth, at best only the Texture that he rules over, supposing the in his timeline he extended the Indian Texture over the entire surface that's the most he would destroy with it. He explicitly doesn't destroy the planet itself as Chaldea can escape the destruction of the wave of light by diving into the imaginary number space of the Reverse Side of the World, meaning that the planet Earth is still fucking there.
Yes, Zeus is that big of a deal, and guess what? No Servants scale to him at all, even most Grand Servants don't. Heck, most Divine Spirits and gods don't scale to him either.
42:48 SERAPH is not infinite, as it's created by the Moon Cell, which we are told is finite so it cannot create infinite structures.
Gilgamesh at no point shatters the Moon Cell's Reality Marbles.
"At no point in the narration it is stated the planet is ar risk of being blown up, destroyed or otherwise killed."
- I was not arguing that Gil & Enkidu were going to destroy Nasuverse Planet via those feats, just that regular planets like ours would be toast in that scenario. None of these arguments are in favor of the Planet in Nasuverse getting destroyed, just regular non-OP planets, arguing who’s on that level is a video on it’s own…
"That line of "all the planet's mana" in the manga is a mistranslation, in reality it's just saying "All the mana is gathering in one place".
- Is it though? That’s how it is translated in official novel form.
"Conclusive Statement 1: "Even at full power, a top Servant's Noble Phantasm almost certainly couldn't break an entire planet apart.". "An entire planet" is here used generally, as opposed of being about Earth in particular."
- Right, since every planet in Nasuverse that we know of is OP & has their own Gaia ect.
"This is an informed statement that Da Vinci can make because Chaldea has recorded many Top Servant NPs. No one ever disagrees with this statement from her throughout all of Shinjuku, despite Artoria being right there with the strongest Holy Sword, a top Servant with one of the strongest NPs in the verse. Hypothetical: "Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm existed". This is an hypothetical that Da Vinci raises to reinforce her point that Moriarty's plan is impossible. Chaldea has no record of an Anti-Planet NP up until that point, but she's now addressing the idea that maybe there's one out there."
- Pray tell, how does this exactly debunk anything I was trying to illustrate in the video? Bro, I’m not trying to say Servants can destroy Nasuverse Planets (yet), just that they an destroy planets from any verse where they have no special bullsh*t safety mechanisms, authorities or textures ect.
-
Taking situation in wider context, Da Vinci's & Holmes' cmments go somewhat like this:
Da Vinci: ”Come now. You’re just making up nonsense now. There’s no way that could actually happen.” - (Response to hearing that Moriarty wants to destroy the planet) Da Vinci does not believe it’s possible. She later gives context why she said that, when the subject is brought up again in later conversation; ”Even at full power, Top Servants NP ALMOST certainly couldn’t break entire planet apart” - This statement is fine, since most of Servants whom they know do not posses NP’s that have the range to enqulf entire planet (AKA Anti-Planet classification). This doesn’t disprove anything in the video, since a Servant’s AP can still be infinite+1 or whatever & still not blow up Earth, since damage is localized, right? That’s what NP classifications are for, they describe the desired target/area of effect.
”Earth has number of SAFETY PROVISIONS in place. He (Moriarty) can’t possibly subvert all of them!” - This is the wider context under which Da Vinci was making her previous claims. Safety provisions obviously refer to Counter Force (ect). ” if Anti-Planet NP existed, ON PAPER, it wouldn’t be enough to destroy THIS ONE” - Da Vinci implies that this very particular planet (THIS ONE AKA Nasuverse Earth) may resist even if Anti-Planet NP is used, thx to these safety provisions. Without them, it would be possible, as Holmes soon clarifies. I agree, as I’m talking about if Servants can destroy regular planets like our Earth, not Nasuverse’s Earth.
Holmes: ”About destroying this planet… in brief, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE” - Pretty verbatim claim. Holmes’ next couple of statements explain why he believes this. Holmes then talks about how Lion King & Edison tried to separate their worlds/people from Human History, in order to lead to his actual point; ”It is not possible to destroy the world. However, it is possible to remove it from history. In other words…” Ritsuka: ”if world is removed from history… then it can be destroyed?” Holmes & Moriarty: ”WELL DONE!” - in other words, Counter Force ect. applying would prevent anything that can destroy (Nasuverse) Earth. Those do not apply anymore when planet is booted out of history. Then sufficient power can destroy it.
Holmes implies that there does not exist means to destroy planet, but then asks what Moriarty in this Shinjuku would specifically need to do to accomplish this. From this, it can be argued that Holmes only believes that anything currently present in1999 Earth can’t do the job, thus the meteor. After Moriarty confirms his suspicion about the meteor being enough, they both agree that the fodder meteor that 2 characters scale to & a phantom Spirit of all things is using as NP, can destroy the planet. To summarize, yes, it can be done, if sufficient power & range, like with meteor we see as example, are used, WHEN COUNTER FORCE ECT. ARE OFF. Anti-Planets definitely can too when safety’s off, & others may as well if they have feats that prove it. Not to mention, even IF Da Vinci’s & Holmes' statement flat out said it can’t be done, even if planet lacks it’s safety methods & we have range to do it, & it was to be taken as some absolute rule of the series’ lore that said no-matter what it can’t be argued against in it’s context, even in scenario like that, we’d still have like 58+ feats of feats that are planetary & beyond (by our standard, not Nasuverses), not counting questionable feats, versus one statement saying it can’t be done. Now there’s a question which of the two is more consistent, 58 or one.
"Moreover, Moriarty's plan to destroy the planet involves guiding Bennu into a gun barrel towards the center of the planet and destroy the Earth's core. This is something completely irrelevant to Moriarty's strength as a Servant. Not to mention that regular Servant Moriarty can't even shoot Bennu as a bullet."
- Yes, you are right, I took that part a bit out of context…. since I’m glad you asked, let me elaborate: I was trying to make a point that these kinds of feats are available for people who are not top tiers if they have right kind of ability (in this case, the said ability being from mere Phantom Spirit, not even Heroic Spirit), or if they prep enough, like Moriarty.
I have my own grievances with this scenario however… why would that be enough to destroy Earth? It’s literally higher dimensional construct due to different textures consistently having statements of such (like Reverse Side & Avalon), not to even mention other arguments for it scaling higher. Like, the planet core resides in physical layer of the World, so why’d it effect Reverse Side or other textures?
MAYBE it’s like firing a torpedo into Death Star Core, it’s not strong enough to blow up the entire station, but explosion of it’s core is... I dunno. Maybe because physical World is destroyed, Reverse Side & others pinned onto it’s surface come undone… or something.
Granted, no one in Shinjuku makes these arguments nor even considers other layers being a factor there, so hard to say for certain without asking Nasu. Kinda strange.
"I particularly don't understand how you could consider a Reality Marble composed of thousands of NP swords growing inside of you to be anything but a top tier ability"
- To be honest, that tier of power is starting to fall further & further down to mid-tier, rather than high-tier that Round Table level of characters used to sit at, simply because of how much new powerful crap has been introduced since Lostbelt saga started…
@@Marionic9001 That wasn't how it was translated in the novel, no.
"The planet sang.
A gigantic amount of mana gushed forth at Enkidu’s feet, and moved to swallow Enuma
Elish head-on."
There is also no evidence that Gilgamesh and Enkidu have the powe to destroy ANY planets.
We do in fact not know that about Nasuverse planets, no. And Da Vinci differentiating between planets other than Earth suggests the opposite.
Again, you haven't provided any evidence that Servants can destroy any sort of planets, Nasu ones or otherwise.
There isn't any case in which a Servant's Noble Phantasm could have infinite attack potency and not be strong enough to destroy a planet, even a Nasuverse one.
What are those 58+ feats that are planetary and beyond? Because all of the feats I can think of that level do not scale in any way to regular Servants. And note that by regular Servants I basically mean non-Grands and Foreigners, Servantverse stuff and others. Probably even Gilgamesn and Enkidu on a good day.
Not sure about that. It may be possible that physically reaching the Earth's core makes one reach the Inner Sea of the Planet like Albion tried to do and how I think Chaldea did in LB6.
Hub? But literally all of the Round Table knights except for Artoria and maybe Galahad have nothing on the level of thousands of NP swords focused into a single point. Like, Galatine, Clarent and Arondight aren't anywhere near that powerful. Clarent sécifically is even noted to be insufficient to destroy a meteor, unlike Unlimited Lost Works.
Continued...
"Goetia isn't a Servant btw so I don't even know why you're mentioning him."
- Beast Class members are Servants though… I don’t exactly get how it works either (since Tiamat, Kiara & Goetia ect. all seemed to be living beings that awakened to being Beasts), but they’re all referred to as & classified as Servants.
"Surtr "killing of the planet" involves him incinerating the Earth's surface and all land on it, not mass scattering or vaporizing it like a Death Star, so this is on the lower end of planetary destruction."
-Surtr is verbatim stated to do both, incinerate planet surface & end the planet. Both the words ’Word’ & ’The Planet’ are used here, and we know how there's a specific distinction. Now I’m not gonna say he destroys the entire f*cking thing (all textures ect.) but it’s safe to say that normal planet would go ka-blooie if anything able to destroy planet-wide textures OF REALITY showed up in our world.
I for one would like to hear a clarification from Nasu or somebody what Surtr exactly does, since he’s stated to do 3 things (likely he just erases the texture of Norse Age of Gods assuming it’s happened in the past when Mt. Novarupta erupted, but if so, why he says it’s end of everything & planet itself)
"Servant Universe stuff does not in fact scale to other Servants due to being a joke parody from a completely different universe"
- It does though. They’re complete and utter jobbers every time they appear, getting beat up by Musashi ect. & the strongest out of them (aside from Space Ishtar), XX jobs over 3 times in her debut event to absolute mid-tiers.
Also what changes with them being quote ’joke parody characters’? What, we can’t scale Gudaguda characters anymore because they happen to be humorous? The Joke isn’t that they can’t be scaled to normal characters, but them being parodies of Artoria (ect) memes & Star Wars, is it not? Why’s that relevant?
They have feats & then come to scale to other characters. Simple as that.
"High tier Servants like Mordred are explicitly incapable of destroying a small meteor, as was shown in Lostbelt 3."
- A meteor from nigh-omnipotent Emperor who’s embodiment of humanity who designed them to be used in defense against aliens…
"The world within Achilles Cosmos is not an entire world, it is described as a miniature world, the world that Achilles saw and lived in, so at beast it would only be the Greek Texture, far from an entire planet surface. On top of that, according the novel narration Vasavi Shakti explicitly failed to kill/destroy the world within the shield, only the gods in it"
- Funny enough, in the animation, we see Chiron’s constellation is contained within it…
Also, yes the spear destroyed the shield, why do you think the world disappears suddenly when Sieg is mid-attack?
"The planet Venus that she warps to is not the real planet Venus, it's in fact not even a planet at all, it's just what the people of ancient Mesopotamia thought Venus was. And Ishtar doesn't even shoot that thing which is not a planet, she fires the concept of something that is not a planet."
- The bio flat out says it's the concept of Venus. Do you by any change think a concept is lesser than all things it contains? And if you want to say ’Mesapotamians didn’t think of it as a planet like Earth, despite every time Ishtar mentions it she explicitly talks about how it’s a planet’- then sure, the Mesapotamians thought of Venus as one of the actual important pieces in endless Celestial Heaven in their lore so…
"Galatine merely contains a pseudo sun in its hilt."
- Gawain: ’Blade of this Holy Sword is the Copy of the Sun itself’
I think it’s only fair to put this among other questionable feats.
"Kiara does not literally grow to that size, what the fuck are you even talking about? That's just a visual representation of the meaning and symbolism of what her NP actually does."
- BB: ’That wannabe Beast is a Solar System-Sized pleasure land! Just… please shove her on that foul mouthed nursery story writer!’
"Myth Achilles does in no way scale to the gods, he ran away for his life when faced with the god of a mere river."
- He’s strongest Greek hero in Trojan War, and one of his compatriots stabbed sh*t out of Ares (& Aphrodite butwhocares). Diomedes, that was his name. Also has also weapons made by Gods.
He’s also touted as equal of or second only to Heracles, both in & out of Fate, dude who you know fought his fair share of Gods…
"And at no point does he or anyone he scales to fight a god without divine intervention helping them. In fact, most of the Greek heroes don't scale favorably to the gods at all. Heracles is one of the few notable exceptions. How the fuck does Ozymandias scale to the gods in myth when the dude is literally a real life person?"
- Pharaoh in lore is embodiment of Gods & contains authorities of myriad Gods, mainly Ra, in their body (this fact is exaggerated especially Fate Prototype Fragments, like hot damn, it’s mentioned like 5 separate times or smthin).
Maybe you misunderstood the point of the section? The lore that applies in Fate is taken into account, not necessarily real historical facts. For example: Fate lore deems that Abigail has Outer God Powers, when in our world that is (hopefully) not the case. What that would entail in scaling sense if the original mythology/story of Outer Gods is is supposed to apply like in original is what I was trying to illustrate with the section. Fate says Ozzy has Sunship & Ra powers, ’oh crap, those are like center of the universe in mythology’ -that’s what I meant.
"Being higher dimensional in the Nasuverse is a mostly meaningless statements, as it only refers to that being a higher order lifeform."
- Quote from Rin in Fate Extra CCC: ’From perspective of a Higher Dimension, the third dimension looks like a flat scroll. Er, it’s like jumping out of a book or something like that’
Quote from BB in FGO Summer Event 3: ’The usual rules don’t apply here, Maybe if you had more than 3-Dimensions to work with, but I can’t see humanity ever evolving that much’
I could go on. You’re one infinity lower in scale than something that has infinitely higher existence. It’s quite consistent in Nasuverse which likes to play with this kind of stuff like Imaginary Numbers…
"The universe within the context of Kama's abilities refers to a conceptual universe, not the real one."
- Yes, which is treated like & functions like actual Universe in the event (inside Ooku). Or are you saying that the Assassin Servant version wouldn’t be on that level…? I mean maybe?
"This statement does not refer to Amaterasu at all, but about Tamamo if she were to regain her 9 tails."
- You’re right about that, at the time I was under the impression her 9-Tailed form would turn her into Amaterasu, but she’s actually different entity (Divided Spirit).
"The statement is also a mistranslation, it does not talk about the "multiverse", but the 三千世界 (sanzen-sekai, "three thousand worlds")" What Nasu's version of sanzen-sekai means in practical terms (in the context of the Human Order / the Greater History of Man) is unknown. Therefore, making generalizations about it isn't very meaningful.
- Hm, I didn’t know that, that’s interesting.
Interesting that they decided to localize it as the Multiverse, considering how careful Type-Moon is with wording the cosmological constructs in the franchise, Might have been intentional distinction to make, but we can’t know for certain.
If I had to guess what sanzen-sekai may refer to in context of Human History/Order, and don’t take this too seriously as an argument, it might just refer to Human History in round-about way (though, why is it not saying Human order if that’s the case), or it actually refers to great trichiliocosm already mentioned in CCC, which the game lore described as Three Billion Solar Systems making up the Living Universe in Buddhist Cosmology. I don’t know if it’s the same thing at all, but I’ve heard it being called 3 thousand worlds.
"God Arjuna's Mahapralaya only destroys the surface of the Earth, at best only the Texture that he rules over, supposing the in his timeline he extended the Indian Texture over the entire surface that's the most he would destroy with it."
- Shiva’s Authority is described as destroying the universe literally every time he’s is brought up, which Arjuna uses in Mahapralayah. It destroys the Universe of his Lostbelt/of Indian Cosmology/whatever. That’s why Chaldea only sees the Lostbelt acting weird & not entire world.
"He explicitly doesn't destroy the planet itself as Chaldea can escape the destruction of the wave of light by diving into the imaginary number space of the Reverse Side of the World, meaning that the planet Earth is still fucking there.
- Did you forget that Imaginary Numbers Space/Void Space is different world that’s not even a parallel world? It’s not even affixed to the planet, but higher dimension that belongs to the universe.
"Yes, Zeus is that big of a deal, and guess what? No Servants scale to him at all, even most Grand Servants don't. Heck, most Divine Spirits and gods don't scale to him either."
- True. Zeus, nor Surtr or Arjuna for that matter, are really not Servants, but I wanted to talk about them in the video still. There are rare exceptions though, Full Power Excalibur absolutely scales to them, full power Ea, Super Karna, Back Barrel wielded by Mash & as you said, Grands, Beasts & some Divine Spirits would. Servants not immediately dying against them or defending with their combined efforts are also good feats, just saying.
"SERAPH is not infinite, as it's created by the Moon Cell, which we are told is finite so it cannot create infinite structures. Gilgamesh at no point shatters the Moon Cell's Reality Marbles."
- Hakuno: ’The Titan’s scream seems to shake reality itself. So primal, so tremendous, that it resounds across the infinite void of space. The world is breaking. The Titan’s scream itself is shaking SERAPH apart’ - statement actually on screen at 42:40
What are you on about? Twice, Rin, Rani, BB & pretty much everything in the plot of Extra & CCC constantly wank how it has recorded infinite possibilities (which is low-balling, since proper Human History is already infinite possibilities according to Goetia, which Moon has recorded & simulated infinite times over). It literally contains higher dimensional constructs.
Gil shatters the Reality Marble temporarily in his animation with Ea.
It’s been long time since someone has been this throughout with one of my videos. It’s fun.
I’ll get back to you eventually, but I’m busy with a new video right now, so don’t expect it soon.
@@Marionic9001 God Arjuna is explicitly stated to not be destroying the universe during the Lostbelt.
Da Vinci: If that's true, it sounds like Arjuna isn't remaking the world
from scratch every time he resets the cycle then.
Da Vinci: Instead, he's basically treating the world like a model, adding
new parts and removing old ones.
Holmes: Then it would stand to reason that, strictly speaking, the people
here may not be dying and being brought back to life.
Da Vinci: Yeah. It seems more likely that everything down to their souls
is being saved as data...
Da Vinci: ...and that their memories are being modified when they're put
back into the new world.
Da Vinci: And if that's the case, we're talking about a much smaller-scale
feat than creating the entire universe from nothing.
Da Vinci: It's still a big frigging deal, don't get me wrong.
Da Vinci: But if Arjuna's got every Indian Divinity AND support from the
Tree of Emptiness, it's theoretically possible.
The Imaginary Number Space that Chaldea dives into to escape Mahapralaya is one within the Reverse Side of the World.
Scáthach-Skadi In one sense, Void Space is similar, in that it too possesses untold possibilities.
Scáthach-Skadi But unlike primordial chaos, which accomplishes this by mixing everything together at once, I believe Void Space does so by being unobservable.
Scáthach-Skadi That is to say, this is the Reverse Side of the World, a completely opaque domain where not even established laws of physics can be glimpsed.
Like I said, the Moon Cell is explicitly stated to be finite.
"Rani :: …now I understand. The sparse layout of the eleventh floor is for this purpose.
Rin :: By layout you mean this big box? Er, so you mean she removed as many obstacles as possible so she could use a limitless transfer?
Rani :: No, that’s not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, the Labyrinth cannot become infinite - it must be of a single shape, with a fixed entrance and exit. No matter how irregular it appears, the Labyrinth must abide by those conditions or it will break down."
And the amount of possibilities that the Moon Cell has recorded is also explicitly finite.
"Moon Cell‘s core is Moon Cell.
As far as Moon Cell is concerned, the seven layers that make up the interior of the Moon are just “additional memory.”
Moon Cell‘s core is what really manages the Moon and observes the Earth. It is the brain that stores the data about the past and future.
It observes the determination of every possible destiny every second, computes further results, and stores everything inside itself as light.1
There are untold tens of millions of lights years of light trapped within the core, and the entire photonic crystal structure is also powered by it.
A certain person named Moon Cell‘s core, “The Destiny Perceiving Dendrogram.”
Just by using information encoded by converging light Moon Cell‘s core can even rewrite the laws of physics.
Phenomena Selection Tree Angelica Cage."
Hakuno's statement would simply be a hyperbole or a mistranslation.
How I know that Tiamat got weekend so much she became a 3D entity then dies at least gaxaly to multi Galaxy
No
Since this video is from 3 years ago and currently the Lostbelts and subsequent events showed feats by far greater, is there a possibility that the Servants have a higher level?
I understand or at least little I've seen, we have things like Mash withstanding the power of a Lostbelt with his NP which is a galaxy incarnate or Elizabeth countering an attack equivalent to the energy of the Big Bang.
At least that kind of stuff I've seen on Reddit, I don't know what you'd think these days.
Best regards, my English is not very good and I hope I was understood.
There definitely has been quite few new above planetary to even above universal feats after this video! Some that make me ever so slightly upset in retrospect, since I would’ve loved to have talked about them here, like Avalon & South America ones.
Lostbelt Trees are galaxies straight up, which I neglected to mention in the video, and to this day I have no idea why. Every Servant present for those boss battles scales to them. I don’t know the Elizabeth feat you’re referring to (but would be pretty good scaling vise, seeing to how notorious of an jobber she is), but then again I have not played all the events in FGO due to being busy, and half the time have resorted to watching walkthroughs to see if they added something cool.
@@Marionic9001 Elizabeth's feat is in a Halloween event, specifically the Halloween Triology event. I find it curious to find very few in the Fate Scaler community about the feats that give a higher level than average Servants, that is, the ones that are not the god or top tier of these.
Many mention them as outlier feats or with little sense because of the whole planet textures issue, but most of these feats don't even occur in the main land of their respective universes but in one where the planet layers are not. I would like to give them a universal level to the Servants since there are other feats apart from the singularities and Lostbelts, as is the case of Kiara, her belly (no kidding) according to several FGO descriptions is mentioned as quite giant 4D space and this attribute she keeps it even being an Alter Ego, that is, her Servant version that nerfs her.
Moreover, being a Servant she has a power equivalent to that of a solar system and remains a universal threat being limited by her Servant Saint Graph.
Speaking of the Saint Graph, these could also serve as a good argument in case you make a video talking about the power of the Servants, since as the story goes by they evolve and improve Fujimaru's Servants, although, not at the level of a Grand, it is a good justification to reinforce the feats.
@@JasonMcGinnis223 Yes, there seems to be this weird mentality in Fate community (and lots of other fandoms as well), where the characters perceived as top tier are ”allowed” to keep their super impressive high end feats, but whenever a characters perceived to be average or lower tier proves time and time again that they are at certain range or scale to even a percentage of the high tiers, suddenly it’s an outlier.
The Saint Graph ascension is so iffy it hurts. I know it's mentioned to be canonical thing in FGO, but an possible power boost it gives to Chaldea’s servants is never referenced nor seems to factor in servant on servant duels, with all the characters being treated the same in terms of power as they’ve always been as Masterless servants. Heck, most Saint Graph ascensions are literally just canonically costume changes or a form character took under extra circumstances & shouldn’t normally have (Cu Alter’s are based on him amped by Holy Grail & many STN ones like Artoria or Medusa literally just have them changing their outfit a bit like in STN, as ascensions), or they appear as 1st ascension in Chaldea when you summon them normally, implying it’s their base, but then 2nd ascension is almost always the base when they’re summoned normally with in singularities ect. so weird.
@@Marionic9001 Em, from Singularity F they mention that Servants evolve or improve their power over time beyond a costume change due to the bond or time they spend with Ritsuka.
Mash herself is an example that went from barely standing up to a Servant to directly being on par with some.
The Saint Graph in the Singularity of London if I remember correctly they mention about how to improve it there is a big power gap, complemented with the explanation of the Grand Servants.
And well, I think it goes without saying that in that point Mash has improved too much. It is worth mentioning that the Grail Saints do not all have the same level seeing the difference in feats and how these are the ones that provide the most power to the Servants of the moment, which would explain why there is such a difference in feats.
Without anything weird in between or external things if we take into account Mysterious Heroine X the minimum level, without Master, the Saint Graph, nor the Holy Grail in between would be the planetary level, at least that is the best explanation I can provide as to why there are such weird cases with the levels.
The improved and based on what we have seen with Mash, in each Singularity it varies, as she improves her Saint Graph the star, solar system and Galactic level is the most that has been seen, Universal if we take into account that the Lostbelts and Fantasy Trees are really pruned timelines/universe and therefore without panhuman history.
@@JasonMcGinnis223 Mash definitely goes through improvement, the only one that’s not contestable at all.
What I meant was the supposed gap in power never plays a part nor is showcased in canonical sense, all the mentions of it are just to justify the ascension costume changes (that ironically are sometimes just simple costume changes in-canon, that servants can do simply by lifting up their hood or remove their armor even in story of FGO ect., Mysterious Heroine XX being prime example of one now that you mentioned her). In singularities almost every servant appears in 2nd ascension as base, so does this mean Chaldea deliberately summons weaker servants than those that are normally summonable & thus need an ascension to be on par with that base? Not to mention how almost no-one on Chaldea’s side ever appears in 3rd ascension in story (probably because half of the cast of first 3 singularities has such an awful ascension art) despite how it SHOULD be more than possible, or mandatory even for them to be in top shape (also any summoning in story, like in Lostbelt chapters, also has Servant in 2nd Ascension from the start, further meaning it’s the base). So weird. Not to mention how servants who supposedly are stronger thanks to ascension can’t stop getting bullied by the same servants who usually beat them in fights. There doesn’t seem to be any difference really.
Unlike Spiritual Modification in Extra where your servants stats actually experience change, ascension is pretty cosmetic as far as story is concerned, despite claims to the contrary (which do exist, I’m just saying those claims are ill-supported). The only times where I’d treat ascensions as (significant) increases in power, would be any time Mash got one (and with her it’s more like her just getting closer to Galahad’s base power & than getting add-ons, so not regular ascension per-say), and those rare instances in story where character does ascension & it’s vocalized to be power up, Skadi in Scandinavian Lostbelt is one of the few that comes to mind.
woah man i tought Fate servants cant destroy planets
Yeah, not surprising considering how OP planets are in Nasuverse, but drop Servants into any other verse & stuff gets nasty.
Yeah because Gaia try to nerf them because it doesn't want to destroy the world so they nerf them
@K.O.G.Fanstarks1610 Yeah. I would love to see to see what Archetype Earth would have to say on the matter.
Though, funny enough, all the biggest threats to the planet itself (barring aliens) are actually directly born from forces within the planet like Beasts & Grands.
@K.O.G.Fanstarks1610 Goetia was gonna replace the planet & Kiara was gonna kill it by becoming it's brain... there are lot of others that are considered threat to the planet, but nothing that Counter Force hasn't been able to deal with in one way or another (aside from Notes).
@@Marionic9001 Same, but I have a question the range of influence of Gaia and alaya is it solar system or universal?
If Enkidu took all the Planet's Mana wouldn't that mean the Planet is dead or is going to be dead like the EXTRAVERSE? or is this one of the many "Flowery Language" that the Fate/strange fake uses?
It can be inferred that he only took all it could spare & left some in reserve as not to kill the planet (similar to Servants or Magus exhausting all their Mana fighting & becoming too weak to do anything, yet still remain alive).
The Planet can also regenerate it’s reserves similar to how humans do via rest ect. I’d imagine…
Though it would indeed be funny if Gil & Enkidu fighting too much was revealed to be the reason Planet started to die in Extra Timelines XD (it is not though)
@@Marionic9001 So yeah Flowery Language. It would be funny that because of Enkidu taking all the Mana the planet would become dead and the chances of it becoming a pruned timeline would increase and that's how the F/SF HGW ended though it always confuses me on how people where able to see "Taking all of the Mana" as something true when we already have a perfect example of a world that has no mana left.
@@vincentvonmod4235 How is that particularly flowery...? Saber runs out of mana in STN, yet still lives. Enkidu is just taking all it can spare, not all it needs to live. Those are two different things, max potency & max capacity.
Also timelines become pruned only when they go on a path which has no possibilities to to follow... thus far, from what we've seen from Extra, there are quite few possible directions time can still take, even when world has no mana. That's exactly what prompts humans & mages to explore Mooncell.
@@Marionic9001no wouldn’t that be notes?
@@Marionic9001 I thought he was only taking the ley line mana, it mentioned "it was enough to delude one into thinking that Gaia, the counter force of the planet , was opposing Gilgamesh’s power to destroy the world" so it isn’t the counter force but mana of the ley line? The comic mentioned of "to that of a planet" is just the little girl’s delusion. 7:34
What if Ganondorf was teleported into the star wars Universe will he survive?
He clap the entire verse p
@@johnnywantyoudead5113 hahahaha NO i mean NO
Btw I heard that you said that shulk is the concept of fate do you have a scan I mean that won't put him at outerversal but it still gonna be interesting
Concept of Fate…?
I don’t think I’ve ever said that. He’s one with Passage of Fate, sure, but I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned anything about concepts when discussing him (also I’ve never said he’s outerversal???).
Monados, in essence, are devices for manipulating ether, which makes up all things in Xenoblade, material & immaterial, making them kind of control keys for reality.
Zanza, upon gaining 2 Monados states that he has become one with the Passage of Fate, which he uses to simultaneously view all of Time, his vision stopping at the point where Shulk takes his power for himself ruclips.net/video/Tsgy1h5x8VU/видео.html at 10:00:54 - 10:01:37
Later it's further explained by Alvis that Zanza’s will is literally same as fate, what he says, goes. Fighting him is same as fighting predeterministic destiny itself at 9:18:00 - 9:22:20
Upon Zanza’s defeat, Shulk has that whole bit about him deciding the future of everything, and he decides that World will have no more Gods to control fates of mortals, at 10:15:43 - 10:21:18
That’s it in a shellnut. BTW Shulk’s Visions of Future are actually him seeing the strings of fate, how events would play out, was he not to intervene with them, pretty much meaning that even base Shulk is outside Passage of Fate (Alvis also confirms this in the scene where he explains Zanza’s control over fate).
@@Marionic9001 yeah I know he isn't outerversal being concept of something doesn't always means you are outerversal im just saying was that ever the case
@@mohamedbinishaq3169 Yeah, that's right. It depends on the scale of the concept. Platonic Concept would be Outerversal, but concept of, let's say, 3D Gun would just be 3D in scale.
Not that Shulk's power is based on anything like that anyway...
@@Marionic9001 I see
juts one thing grand servants do not directly scale to beast class evils
They don't huh? So I guess King Hassan didn’t f*ck up Tiamat to the point she could be defeated by Servants a dimension below her, and Quirinos didn’t balance scales against Zeus who was superior to Koyanskaya (immature Beast who was supposed to be beatable by Orion), nor was Noah capable of defeating Draco before being jumped & even while weakened he & king Hassan allowed everyone to beat her?
Grands were specifically made by Counter Force to be summoned to defeat Beasts whenever they show up you know…though I’ll admit, their track record is generally pretty mid, considering none of them having just outright 1v1’d a Beast.
so, nasuverse characters, like gilgamesh or artoria can destroy an multiverse? artoria defeat tamamo in extella, who is stronger than bb, and characters like the beasts or lostbelt kings can just erase a multiverse complex or higher? so nasuverse can solo a lot of others universes like DB( who is a weak universe) and face umineko (who is the stronger universe in the LN and GAMES)
Solo DB? Mainline versions, sure.
Compete with Umineko? F*ck no.
@@Marionic9001 if you delete Featherine, the creator and maria, the rest is basically same level
@@Marionic9001 maybe at a degree
destroying the multiverse is a false speculation they invented. no one by fate has that ability.
@@Marionic9001 Nah, the DB verse solos
Out of curiosity where does that put heroic spirit
Like raikou scale ?
Kintoki & Raikou have scaling to roughly the Round Table-ish tiers of characters, what’s with Kintoki fighting greatly amped Tesla who matched Mordred & both being comparable to Shuten & Ibaraki, among other things, so they are around the level of those high tier people who can somewhat fight Universals in the series, give or take.
Raikou’s Ushi Gozen state is apparently Divine Spirit level, and those type of characters are usually performing asinine feats like creating infinite spaces or manipulating World/reality itself (what we know for sure of her rank is that it's far lesser than Amaterasu, but higher than likes of Suzuka Gozen)
You couldn't make the argument raikou might be on par with Lancelot.......
@@forresttheanimezilla3763 I couldn't?
I mean could
@@Marionic9001 Fate fanboy who worth less than 2 coins
Zeus can destroy the universe and Zeus Is weaker than alien God ( third planetary class) goetia ( second planetary class) > alien God. Lol yes servants can destroy the Planet, anyway good video.
P.S. Zeus atleast is a 8D being
If we wanna go even further, Amaterasu/9-Tail Tamamo can destroy Multiverse, is only one of Primary Gods while < Arjuna Alter absorbed a pantheon of hundreds of Gods whom posses 3 Primary Gods (not to mention how some of Hindu pantheon can be argued to have influenced Shinto ect. Deities or to be their OG’s AKA superiors according to Fate Lore) < Zeus is stronger than Arjuna < Alien God < Goetia < Solomon, according to Goetia
Where does Zeus being 8D come from tho?
@@Marionic9001 comparing him to amaterasu (which can break through the 8d moon cell barrier as if it were nothing) so at least 8d (to be generous)
@@italianwithkebab8396 That’s Amaterasu within Mooncell though, rules & power levels are different from Earth where physics & Counter Force apply…
But yes, in Mooncell Zeus ect. would easily be on those same levels, maybe even beyond that dimension.
@@Marionic9001 even if we disregard the moon cell and the counter force an unprotected world like for example ego from guardians of the galaxy would be screwed even the being is a celestial body.
Mooncell is not quite 8D. It is a computer compared to the solar system.
Suggestion: A Warhammer 40k powerscale?
Sorry, I know literally nothing of the verse ^.^
@Droplet Cloud
It's pretty simple actually. It's not outerversal definitely and likely not even multiversal.
@@Marionic9001 Wrong
So Goku can’t solo
He solo only 45% of verse only
Yes he defeats everyone
I don't think Goku or Whis can beat 45% Fate Characters cause they are required to have Magical Energy which can damage Servants. So, I can say at least around 90% between 98% Servants who can beat DB Verses. Also, Fate is not just Planet or Universe Level, this video proves that a planet can get destroyed because most people don't know how strong Fate is. So, next up is about BB Moon Cancer in Fate game as a cannon. BB said, "It's a perfectly spherical spiritron defense wall that cuts through eight dimensions." Which scale Complex Multiverse while Goku is High Universe, scale Goku a Low Multiverse is misunderstood because people think Goku can destroy 2 Universe. Dragon Ball Super don't show that destroy or shake a TWICE. "B-But Goku shakes the void", yes, I know but the Void has infinite which should big as a Macrocosm. Macrocosm is 3D because it is a small universe that is inside of Universe 7.
so if we drop hercules ( berserker not the archer cuz archer is broken )in the db verse can he do some dmg?
He got clapd via hakai
He was able to fight of demon god pillars that is higher conceptual beings so yeah he could
@@fuckingking6796 nah he could survive an attack that could incinerate all life in an instant in a conceptual lvl
@@nhazulkimonalos9895 where does he scale?
hmm nope. hercules is like king piccolo lvl. fate need unrestricted servant like saber to destroy db.
servants are city level or multiverse there is no between.
It took Gaia + counter force to stop ea
*Gaia planet dies from goddamn surface damage*
Slash empower needs to be included to,if he isnt(Im saying this before watching the video)
Well, I mean, obviously, though it has nothing to do with Servants.
(though I suppose I mention things that aren’t Servants in this video quite a number of times...)
@@Marionic9001 Nope
@@Nothingness4907 well man he said only servants not other characters why are u just in every comment
also i dont like powerscaling but can u stfu he is just making his vid for his viewers
fate characters are beyond infinity dimensional septillion outer solar exter versal creational power conceptional hornyoal universe strong. if it weren't for gaia alaya beasts grands zelritch kaleidoscope ultimate ones small ones delusional ones they would've destroyed all fiction and even our reality by merely playing tug of war with me-I MEAN FUJIMARU RITSUKA quintillions of times over in the span of a petasecond
Wait, so you're Mr. Fujimaru Ritsuka then?
You're arrested on charges of second hand murder, for destroying god knows how many Lostbelts.
You forgot to mention , ea used to be far stronger , similarly to Excalibur
Ea has restrictions , ea used to have nation building authority , 3 great class authority , it was mentioned in the strange fake novel even after its possible world ending feat
It was stated ea used to be far stronger , it’s was magnitudes greater , it was mention it Gil’s card ea outranked all the gods that built on or built the primordial world
The world being cathoyuluk or the primordial earth ea was the ultimate manifestation of power before hand it after crystallized into from as we see it now
Ea stabilized the primordial world it’s one of its main creators , cathoyuluk being the proto to all earth mothers , ea is confirmed to be older than the world itself the ultimate representation/power of the gods before the world came to be , so if you want to make an argument for it you can argue due to ea being older than the world and outranking all the gods that built it , it having 3 great class authorities , older than cathoyluk and it obviously being older than gaia and alaya since without cathoyluk they wouldn’t even exist in first place
So ea in its prime days can get very high up there in power scaling in fate
Strange, I’m not familiar with those statements from Strange Fake. In which page it’s on?
I’ve seen statements that Ea (God) that the weapon is equated to, is kinda deification of the Planet itself in lore, I believe this is from Extra CCC character matrix, so it may very well be that Ea was more powerful in far past, possibly before Gilgamesh used it (it has been said to have created Planet or at least stabilized it by Gods too…)
Those Strange Fake statements would definitely solidify that claim.
@@Marionic9001 Ea during the endkiu fight in strange fake
Also stated it lacked the sheer magnitude of power it once had
@@Marionic9001
It’s mentioned in some source materials that no beings of this world can destroy it, Gil being a being of the world
And during with the events of gaia , pretty sure ea was recognized by it and deemed it extremely dangerous as ea tore apart Gaia’s world
It’s most likely gilgamesh nerfing it , since it was mentioned several times ea lost the power it once had
@@Marionic9001
The planet was once a living hell , where no organic being can survive
But during the creation of the planet or the primordial world , ea outranked everyone who was there
The thing about Ea outranking the other gods is a mistranslation. Ea is also not confirmed to be older than the world itself, as he is merely the pseudo-deification of the power of the planet that stabilized the ground surface.
The Moon Cell itself can be used to alter reality itself and "destroy the world", which does not mean destroying the planet, just ending life and/or civilization on Earth. The fact that Buddha's NP can be used so the Moon Cell does this to all the worlds it observes has nothing to do with destructive power or attack potency.
I never claimed that outside Universe was being effected in Extra section. Moon Cell’s reality warping can effect outside world yes, but I never said it can destroy Nasuverse Planets, I don’t think that’s flat out stated (I mean, via scaling it kinda is, but hey).
Chakravartin was gonna annihilate Universes recorded inside Moon Cell. Within it, those universes are real. It’s still a major feat.
@@Marionic9001 There aren't universes recorded inside the Moon Cell, only data in the form of light. What Chakravartin was gonna was halt the process of timelines being supplied energy to exist, because the Moon Cell's observation of parallel worlds and reality warping can do that. So this doesn't scale to Chakravarting, it's a feat of the Moon Cell and it's not planet or universe busting either.
@@Daemon_Belial SE.RA.PH is universe of it’s own & contains planets stars & infinite void of space as Extella & CCC describe and showcase in backgrounds too.
Moon Cell contains all possible timelines as recorded information & can even bring any of them into actual reality outside of it, so the are real as they come. These possibilities can also be accessed whenever within Moon Cell’s environments as seen with Extras & CCC’s bonus bosses like FSN Rin & Archer or the like. Chakravartin was gonna halt their operation entirely.
Storing something that is infinite is infinite in power. I wonder if you missed the scans I showed in the video.
@@Marionic9001 What a stupid statement
@@Nothingness4907 You’ve been spamming quite lot of comment here lately… if you really want my attention, all you would’ve had to do is ask to argue against the evidence I showed in the video. If you wanna discuss the topic, I’m all for it, but you need to understand that you’re not giving much for me to work off of other than you think I’m wrong.
So what do ya got, mystery person? ^_^
Hell nah amakusa ain’t weak and would not get one shot by Siegfried 😂wth
Well, Sieg, AKA guy with Siegfried’s power thinks so. Stated in the Apocrypha novels.