Ben Shapiro Asks Matt "What is Lust?"
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- 📺 Full Episode: • Do I Agree with Dennis...
Ben and Matt discuss Jewish and Christian understandings of Lust
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I couldn’t agree more with all of this. Porn has had such a dramatically negative impact on my life and I truly believe is intrinsically evil. I was molested as a very young girl, around 5 years old, by my teenage male cousins (15, 18, and 19 when I was 5) until I was around 9 years old using their father’s penthouse and hustler magazines. I was enthralled and disgusted at the same time… eventually compiling my own collections. I was basically a porn addict all through out my teen years and it only tapered off when I met and fell in love with my husband. Even now it is something that is a struggle for me at times despite having lived without it for nearly 23 years.😌
Good for you for conquering your addiction!! 😊😊
Waiting for Ben to pass out from not taking a breath between paragraphs.
Your conversation with Ben was great. You should get him on the show. I loved seeing how social and political topics roll over in to the marital relationship. This was a great, honest, and real conversation.
Seem really straight fowards to me: sexual desire is a gift from God that we can distort just like all the other gifts. In this case we call that distortion Lust. Targeting a spouse with Lust does not "cancel it out".
Good job Matt!! Thank you for taking this interview. So glad you are Catholic 🙌
Listening to Bible In A Year and just read through 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicals with David laying with Bathseba and also Amnon and Temar and they are two very clear examples of Lust and even its rippling after effects.
Those stories made me think about these debates about what is lust.
David laying with Bathseba is so contrary to what we know David to be but it was a rolling stone of immortality and sin that just gets worse and worse in its disorder.
Amnons treatment of his Sister and the scriptures use the word love for how he felt about Tamar but after he was finished with his heinieous act he felt anger and hatred towards her and shame, outwardly projecting how the sin made him feel.
Lust is an intense perversion ot the great gift of love that God has given to us to give to others and it is a slippery slope that can derail even the best of us!
Lust is any form of sexual attraction which is:
1. Done with one's own sexual gratification in mind.
2. Done outside of marriage and therefore in sin.
3. Done without the intent to 'be fruitful and multiply', fulfilling the human obligation to create life.
Not so on the third, open to new life yes,always intending for it, no.
@@husq48Catholics have weird views on contraception. I’m not surprised to see the third one. I don’t agree but I respect it.
@@wowitsfrostygames155 I believe that was the view of all the Christian denominations up till the 20th century when the Anglican church allowed it for "extreme cases"...
Third One doesn't apply given of your wife is postmenopausal any sex you have is nonprocreative
yea you should revise your understanding on 3. for a couple that is, say infertile, there would be no intent on multiplication. Else, what should married couples past menopause do during intimacy? Add to this the many normal scenarios, such as a married couple right after the wife gives birth. In this case, penetration is not advisable for a few weeks while the healing takes place. Plus, she is not going to be immediately fertile anyway. Sexual intimacy in that case would not be intent on multiplication in multiple ways simultaneously (no penetration + temporary infertility).
I’ve heard that addiction is defined by its consequences, and I think lust is exactly the same. At the point where it takes away from your relationship with your spouse it’s lust.
If you find yourself thinking of someone else when you should be thinking about your spouse, that’s lust
Currently in a book study of Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla (St. John Paul II) and it was great hearing Matt echo the ideas we have been discussing, namely the personalistic norm as a safeguard against the egoism/hedonism of utilitarianism. And I do recommend the book to anyone willing to explore these ideas deeper... although it certainly is not a light, summer beach read.
Matt and PwA team, God bless you for what you guys do. I hope and pray these types of conversations bring about conversions, and that you continue being courageous and humble as your platform grows.
Watching porn to avoid adultery is like watching sadistic videos to avoid committing murder.
1) the watching may satisfy a dark part of your soul, but feed it as well. Desires are not a static unchanging package you recieve at birth, it changes based on what you do with it. You can corrupt it.
2) the watching is still an evil thing in itself, obviously it would be better to not commit adultery but also not watch and fantasize either
How bizarre. You seem to feel murder is not much worse than a fantasy of murder.
@@marchess286the fantasy is objectively less bad. I believe the problem is that fantasies are subjectively rather close to the realities…..like a recital or a practice and rehearsal for a greater sin.
@@j_deo - maybe it's a rehearsal in the mind. But, I would guess that, for example, of X number of men who, at some point,have a fantasy of a really terrible thing, like bobbing their mother in law on the nogin, only a very small percentage have done so. My point is, maybe it is better to work to deter more common real offenses, like gossip and slander. Maybe it's also important to not diminish the evil of the actual act (from murder, to adultery to gossip) by confusing them with a fantasy.
My husband once said, but I have (sexual) needs” when I was too tired or uninterested to engage. I was sooooo mad after he said that bc it felt like the only reason he wanted to be with me is to fulfill his own selfish sexual desires. And sex is supposed to be so much more than that. He’s matured a lot since then. But the point is guys -women were not put on earth to fulfill your sexual desires. Sex is for creating new life.
this is incorrect. Please read 1 Cor 7:3-5. Your husband does have legitimate sexual needs as well as you. Sexual intimacy is, among many things, a form of service that you provide to each other. Deprive your spouse of it and watch Satan come in
You are in rebellion if you think people have no sexual needs and that their need is selfish. It is you who is selfish. Read 1 Cor 7 and the principle of consent. It is the opposite of what the world has taught you. Consent is not for access to sex, it is needed only for denial of sex to the other. If you or your husband wants to abstain from sex, you or he need to take the consent of the other. As far as sex goes, both have the right to sex (consent is always assumed) and no one has the right to deny (outside mutual consent). It is a duty to fulfill the need for union, sex was not created just for creating life (a carnal way of looking at sex as the need to procreate drives the instinct of most animals but humans are different, sex is primarily for pleasure via union).
Judaism focuses more on actions rather than
"mental state"? That's because of the
stubbornness of jews who refuse to follow God's commandments. That's the only thing you can conclude if you know what are God's 10 most important instructions for us. Clearly He calls us to become good from the inside because He can see us completely. That's why He came into flesh to correct their limited understanding of the Law by teaching them by example.
Perhaps he meant it is not concerned with fantasy which has nothing to do with reality, rather than "mental state" which can also include real intentions or real world desires that are beyond one's boundaries and transgress the law in principle. Christianity has included fantasy with intentions/real world desire which is so unfortunate and the cause of mental issues with young people especially young men who take these religious ideas seriously.
Lust is also having sex entirely for your own gratification.
Thank you, Matt and Ben, for this conversation.
Good explanation, Matt.❤
I've said this before, Prager is not a devout individual. He is more of a secular Jew who puts his libertarian beliefs first. I used to listen to his podcasts and I base my opinion on that. I stopped listening to him a while ago because I didn't like the stand he took on issues such as prostitution. Shapiro is more devout but I also stopped listening to him but it was because I'm not a fan of his politics. The only commentator at the DW I listen to on occasion is Matt Walsh. That's just me though. I do think Shapiro has a stronger spiritual foundation than Prager so it doesn't surprise me to find he is more in line with Matt's take on pornography.
Yeah prager is a pretty openly sexual guy. No wonder he is on his 3rd marriage
I with Ben and more than one speed when he talks. He drives me nuts talking that fast. It would be nice if you approached this discussion from a single person's point of view. It's always couched through a married person's point of view.
Yes, Huberman, brain researcher , says porn and masterbation, does negative things in brain relating to unhealthy addictions, etc.
Well spoken Matt!
To me, I think sex beyond the intent of procreation is intrinsically lust. I simply can’t see sex as anything “good” or “powerful” as other people see it. It’s just two people who desire each other physically. It’s generally neutral. And only bad if it’s done without consent from both parties.
Wow that is fascinating! I love Ben Shapiro. I’m very glad he and you are in so much agreement on this. Have you read his book? You’ve both written books on the dangers of porn
Baby don’t hurt me
No more
"pro-creative and unitive..." leads to the assumption that relations between spouses should end after menopause. That's disordered.
also, altruism is of mixed associations. it has shades of gnosticism, so don't hold it as a paradigm of good.
It really doesn’t, since Christian’s are encouraged to stay active after menopause, as in all parts of their marriage. That’s the “unitive” part.
You’re really reaching with your comment and you jumped to a lot of conclusions
@@user-lt1jd1ye3v Procreative and unitive means both have to be there. That would put menopause as the time when all sexual relations between spouses must cease as procreation is no longer possible. It is indeed nonsensical.
Alternate title: Ben Shapiro AGREES with Catholic podcaster on FACTS and LOGIC!
Amen.
Lust is the distortion of a healthy sexual desire. Looking at your partner and thinking she (or him) is beautiful and great and that you love her (or him) is a healthy sexual desire.
Now looking at your partner and just think how does she look naked and/or just wanting to have sex for pleasure, that is lust. It is a very selfish act and a big distortion that God gave us.
Except the pleasure of sex is ALSO a gift from God. I think it’s even Paul who says if you struggle with lust it’s better to get married than to burn with desire.
I’m not entirely convinced you even CAN lust after your partner.
@@wowitsfrostygames155 I don't deny that getting pleasure during the sexual act is a gift from God.
But I did said that if some *Just Want to have sex for pleasure*. The phrase was saying that the person have a selfish desire to just have sex not because it creates a connection between Husband and Wife and it is a way to participate in creation, but because they just want that pleasure someone feels during and after the act. That is lust and a distorted and unhealthy way of sexuality. Now I don't think this is widespread and the majority of men and women don't do this and actually just want to have a deep connection.
@@Chordus_Gaius oh i see. because i was going to say i dont think the Bible condemns a married couple thats just "in the mood" and just wants to have sex, if anything it seems to be the opposite.
But i understand. Even in those instances there is still love and bonding happening. Your point was if the sex is all there is to it.
I mean I wish the faces of Catholicism via Social Media and Podcast, would change the in your face approach about what seems like attaching people who have the slightest connection inwardly or outwardly when it comes to this area.
I think that if it were approached with the CCC in mind, maybe the call to chastity and sainthood would be the focus instead of what looks like a regression into the extremely failed conversion ideology.
debating Ben Shapiro requires an incredible amount of guts
What is lust?
Baby, dont hurt me, dont hurt me
With porn
What is lust?
Baby, dont hurt me, dont hurt me
With porn
Tan tan tanana nanana nanana
please delete this thank you in advance
Ah great, now my neck hurts. Thanks a lot!
@@Proclivitytolife hahaha was it worth it? God Bless you
Crushed it
It's interesting that Matt was given a worse audio connection than Ben. Given Matt's ability to livestream with perfect audio, I wonder why they made the decision to do that?
Baby don't hurt me.
Ya’ll are making Dennis Prager look bad. Poor guy.
Is enjoying a character acted by your favorite actor in a good movie lust?
No
4:40
Prager made Judaism seem so utilitarian. It’s all about consequences of action.
You're getting there now when do you think Jews began to be so legalistic about things rather than following the spirit of the law? It's almost as if there was a massive supernatural event that came to settle these issues 2000 years ago and we know the Jewish answer.
Calm down… Jesus was a Jew, Mary was a Jew, they were all.
To put it simply according to me, lust is displaying a wish or longing for biological process by which new individual organisms, known as offspring, are produced from their parent or parents which is characterized by the union of male and female reproductive cells that fuse with another cell that contains a single set of thread-like structures made of protein and a single molecule of DNA located inside the nucleus of animal and plant cells during union of a human egg and sperm, primarily in the muscular ducts that stretch from the uterus to the ovaries in the female basin-shaped complex of bones that connects the trunk and legs, which leads to the production of a fertilized egg called a zygote, initiating embryonic development in organisms to an extreme degree.
Lust. Is coveting.
Romans 7.7.
Porn is issue becuase of prostitution
Masterbation and sexual desire is not sin
Notice pragur said they have coveting.
Not lust.
Then Aquinas here defines it as coveting.
Look at the greek. Sexual urge not sin
Coveting anothers wife... that's wrojg
How was camp?
makes sense your view is closer to Ben's..... I don't believe Ben's parents were intaking and willing to look the other way when one of the two chose to view Playboy.
Why was the most egregious part of the interview with Prager left out?
Actually if u watch this and pragurs.
Ull catch Aquinas in a lie.
Pragur says we don't have lust as sexual desire in o.t. we have coveting the 10th commandment.
Aquinas moved goal posts pivoted and strawmaned pragur entire time.
Pragur repeatedly said porn wasn't good.
He doesn't consider nudes porn.
Aquinas strawmaned the man.
Then in this.
Ben and Aquinas defined lust as coveting.
Which is how pual in romans defines it... 😅
@@r.a.panimefan2109 Matt 5:28 does not have the concept of lust in it. It is all about coveting a wife. The whole concept of lust is a creation of the ascetics and not from the scriptures. Matt 5:28 says if anyone looks upon a wife in order to covet her, he has already committed adultery in his heart. Lust is a made up concept that developed in the 1st century amongst the ascetics and became dominant in all of Christianity for the last 1800-1900 years or so.
Elephant in the room is guess who almost exclusively controls the porn industry. Gee wonder why Ben and Dennis might defend that? Hmmmm.......
more bull spit.
Oy Vey! The tiny hats are really taking jssue with this 🤔
Autistic levels of eye contact there matt😜🥴
What?
Lust is malicious desire.
Sex desire that is in bad faith. Lust is of the flesh. In lust your heart is out or ignored. Also your mind is excluded.
You can be the only person on an island or on planet earth or in the universe and still you can be guilty of carnality if that malice and bad faith is in you
That bizarre description of defining lust as reducing someone to an object applies to things like abuse, slavery, exploitation, sexual assault, etc. but not to vanilla sexual desire or activity. If we more broadly define lust as "an inordinate desire for something" then we can understand that a rapist is lustful, not because his assault is sexual in nature, but because he desires to dominate, hurt, and humiliate his victim. If we are to understand that Frollo from "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" is lustful, it is not because he sexually desires Esmeralda (because Phoebus and Quasimodo do as well), but because he is willing to destroy her if he cannot possess her.
So how does watching legally priduced vanilla porn qualify? It really doesn't. You don't become a vicarious sex criminal by watching a porn star do her thing for your entertainment, and if you're actually interacting with her on social media or her website, the fact that she is a person is even more obvious.
I could be wrong, but I believe when most guys have sexual fantasies, these aren't really about control, donination, or power (or at least, I don't find that stuff appealing). They're about being loved and accepted. Weirdly enough, there was one study (I can't remember where it was) which showed a weird correlation between empathy and watching porn. I suppose that is because in order to enjoy a sex fantasy, or any fantasy at all, you have to be able to project yourself it and exercise your imagination.
Funny enouph when Aquinas talks with pragur.
He defines lust as inordinate sex desire...
Pragure says we have coveting not lust.
...
Then here he defines it right as coveting.
Romans by pual defines it.
Mathew is about coveting not desire.
However porn is wrong for other reasons.
One people engaged are fornication.
So each view is contributing.
I agree with pragur about nude models tho it's ridiculous to call that a prostitute
You’re thinking is a bit whack on this
@user-lt1jd1ye3v the guy above.?
Or me?
The reason I define mine by covet is becuase of the greek word
The catholic understanding didn't exist till 4th century
Covet is the word as properly translated.
Hence pragur.
Porn.
Is a problem not becuase how catholics defined it.but due to well there prostitutes
@user-lt1jd1ye3v who's
Mine or above
I do hope Matt presents the one and only gospel, unlike BP Barron who skirted round the subject in the new secular way.
Quran (only scripture with 100% accuracy/preservation) says Allah is “Al-Ahad”(one/indivisible).Philosophically, It is impossible for 3 distinct perfections to exist simultaneously. Father (Perfection 1/distinct1) =Son (Perfection 2/distinct2)=idolatry This is due to addition of two extra perfections that are Co-equal/Co-eternal&distinct with Allah(the most Exalted). Not just the Quran, but also the old/New Testament textually establish tauheed(monotheism). So, then why believe in trinity and associate two imaginary parts to Allah(one/indivisible/Self-Sufficient/All-Loving)? How could your love/worship be undivided/exclusive for Allah(the most Exalted) when there are two other equally unique/perfect entities to adore? The verses of bible used by trinitarians are extremely vague and require hard interpretation to extract the understanding that Father/Son/Holy Ghost are Co-equal/Co-Eternal&distinct.
The understanding of the only God as a trinity comes directly from the holy scriptures. It is in the first verse of the Bible: God, His Spirit, and His Voice. The jews understood this very well since the beginning, as they know when the Spirit of God speaks thru men (the prophets), they also understand the Voice of God, the son of men, the messiah, will come to free them, which we Christians believe that is Jesus. So there you have the three persons of the trinity right in the beginning of the Bible which both jews and christians believe. This was also understood by early trinitarians when God made us to His image. We humans are one being with two natures, our body and our spirit. God is one with three persons. Our very nature helps us understand God's nature
@@montjoile I would read chapter 112 of Quran (only 4 verses)to understand the difference between Necessary Existence and contingent existence.
yeah yeah Jesus is cool and all, but "judaism"..
i am looking for the truth i dont know if masturbation is a sin i am open to anyone that wants to help, tell me the truth not what i wanna hear
It is a sin
@@thelucktroll8334 your input is very much appriciated but do you think its a mortal of venial sin?
@@TruthWizardTemplar7 Jesus Christ is completely holy, unique, and perfect. He never had one millisecond of a lazy attitude or a sinful lust. As 1 Peter 2:22 says "He committed no sin and no deceit was found in His mouth." He is the innocent Lamb without spot or blemish. John the Baptist said "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:29
@@TruthWizardTemplar7 Well, I would refer you to the catechism of the Catholic church CC 1856 to 1861, it speaks on mortal sin. I would also refer you to your priest, who can speak much better on this topic. I am not well versed on the issue.
As someone who has been struggling with this sin for about five whole years daily, I can say it is 100% against Catholic teaching due to sexual pleasure and gratification, having an equal pleasure to sex with condoms. I have been blessed to have done it less and less now with the assistance of the Holy Rosary. For it to be a mortal sin, it has to have requirements; one mus have full knowledge on what he does and he must have been willing to do it. For example, if someone masturbates and does not know it is a sin, it probably does not qualify as a mortal sin, or if one if forced against their will. If I am missing something, could a more experienced Catholic please point it out. Thanks in advance!