been listening to Derek Bailey for more than ten years now and i still can't decide if i like what he does or not. i just listen to what he plays, and im always coming back to it, but i (still) couldnt say if im into it or if i hate it. props to the man for having done what he did. we need to keep in mind people like Fred Frith (Henry Cow), Jim O'Rourke among others were shown a different way to approach the guitar thanks to this dude.
what seems pretty clear to me is that people who love expressing themselves in cliches (emperor's new clothes, 6-yr-old, cat on piano, etc etc etc) will never appreciate why someone might want to dedicate their life to avoiding cliches (even if they inevitably create new ones in the process). they are two entirely different kinds of person, the first being vastly more common than the second. to avoid cliche you first have to notice that you're using it, and then you have to feel that you want to do better, but most people, sadly, don't get to stage 1, though they spend a lot of time attacking those who are further along the road that they don't even see the point of starting out on.
@@thebeatcreeper So what about Jazz? Be Bop IS a highly Intelectual Music. Duke Ellington was a very Intelectual Musicien. Combining Dance with Reflection has always been the mayor Force of Jazz. Take Dizzy Gilespies Cubob.
Your six-year old most certainly couldn't do it. Not that that matters. Derek Bailey's playing is always sublime, ridiculous and intriguing. I think listening to Webern's late pieces points you in the right direction.
Impeccable mastery of craft, surety of phrasing, formidable timbal - and tonal - variegation and a hard-won conviction that music is something perpetually interrogative; all of the above, coupled with a bluff and irreverent disdain for piffling, wan commentaries like this one, ensure that the man is sorely missed!
M Hughes No, I wouldn't label your capsule summary of Bailey's virtues as "wan". It did take me a while to learn how to listen to him(and other free improvisers) and I wish some of the commenters here would try to work though the obstacles of their listening expectations and baseless feeling that Derek was trying the wool over everyone's eyes.
Really? Bc this is exactly what I sound like playing an electric guitar... And I've never played in my life lol. This sounds this is all a big joke and the audience has no idea and neither do y'all haha
@@kh7955 Pick up a guitar and prove it then. Try recording it; show us how you sound if you can supposedly recreate it so easily. Tell us about your concept of spacing, dissonance, or harmonics. Actually demonstrate a working understanding of the topic instead of dismissing it using your shameless & open ignorance as a flimsy putdown. If none of this is reasonable of me to expect, do not so boldly claim the contrary - that kind of aimless, stuttering, cynical, vacuous rhetoric is what kills experimentation in any medium of fine-art. Even casually or off-handedly, like this. We are vulnerable and conformist creatures who, in challenging conventional structure, are challenging how we express ourselves musically & in general. I'd honestly encourage that if I were you - because this is music that doesn't really make money on it's own, so it's a very honest and impassioned expression that shouldn't be suppressed if we want to continue being inventive. It's a boring world without new stuff, don't you think? Almost every note here is a harmonic, almost every phrase is angular & dissonant, but it isn't completely random. He's playing notes on the minor & blues scale with jazz chords... just in a very free-form, erratic style with a lot of bizarre technique. This is music for people compelled by the craft more than the listening experience, in my opinion. He was very good at what he did, but what he did was very challenging and hard to listen to for people who don't give a shit about the academic or theoretical side of music. You don't like it? Fine. It isn't your taste then. Not all music has theory anyways... unless you can tell me cavemen were writing sheet-music for their bone-flutes? Were they not expressing themselves explicitly through sound before music theory? Even if this was a joke taking the piss out of the audience... so what? Comedy is still a performance art. I'm sorry if this is tangential or excessive, but these kinds of comments deeply frustrate me.
@@someonecausticandignorant yea bc I have time for that. My whole point isn't that I do it better but that this sounds like someone such as myself, aka not a guitar player ever at all playing a guitar yet its supposedly so good? I call bullshit. Its like a Jackson Pollack painting
And Lo, Derek Bailey did enter through the pearly gates, whereupon he opened his guitar case and did start to 'jam' with the holy angels and their dissonance-free aeolian harps, and before long he was cast down to that Other Place which, just as chance would have it, happens to have all the best music. Amen.
Alien guitar playing...all conventional ways of playing the instrument thrown out the window. Thank god for diversity and for allowing the existence of Derek Bailey.
This isn’t for me, but i can’t really criticise it. What makes me uneasy about this whole thing is that if somebody says they don’t like it then fanboys jump on them and say they don’t like it cos they don’t understand it. Like there is some secret club who are the only people allowed to judge. Music is subjective, and if someone says it is bad or good it can only be opinion and opinions on taste simply cannot be wrong.
not liking it is fine. the issue is people claiming that there's no skill or method behind it and throwing around emperor's clothes type accusations. the way you expressed your opinion is completely legitimate but you gotta admit not everyone puts it quite like you did
I've been playing electric guitar for over 40 years and can say his method is not hapstance meandering but an extremely difficult execution. I could never do it.
Seems like he's composing for other instruments. I don't know if i like this, but it's a crazy "point of view" about how to play an harmonic instrument.
Interesting, not enough to build a career around it, enough to make a 10 minut caothic piece os music. It's the ideal music for asperger idiot pattern spotters
Ah, the old Bailey Debate again. Is it playing? Is it virtuoso playing? Could my 6-year old do this? Could a chimpanzee makes this noise? Well, no, your 6 year old couldn't do it, but he/she might do an 'approximation' of it. This is the point. The 6 year-old would do 'their' version of this 'process'. And it would reflect a 6-year old vision. This is trying to find something new in a CREATIVE AND DISCONTINUOUS MANNER; but you have to be prepared for it. This is not trying to get people to like it. It won't 'hit the charts' soon. Good grief, it's experimental, obviously!! (*see below) It has nothing to do with (regular sized) music at this level of abstraction; he just happens to be exploring time and its use, in this case, with a guitar. (* most pop groups do their versions of something good that went before - nothing wrong with that - tried and trusted. They just wanna be liked ('buy our music, please') - Hey! i like pop too)
You do realize that he has no idea how to play a guitar right? I think his fans are reading something into his playing that really isn,t there. I would go as far as saying that he may have some mental issues if he believes he can actually play the guitar, this is just noise.
@@andrea4809 you do realize he absolutely knows how to play a guitar right? just read his wikipedia page and you'll see that he didnt just immediately start out playing like this. he was a session guitarist and played in a conventional jazz group
Hermeto Pascoal listened to the swans and other animals to develop his music. Actually, he kinda of lived with them. But you would hear only noises when listening to the swans, as you said. That´s why Hermeto is genius . '' Bang your head on the side of the pool under water '' ? Maybe that would help you to wash your ears. Uncomon sounds are not for you.
he should do that without looking...might be even better!....lol. sounds like my 6 year old brother playing for the 1st time. good for a laugh but gets's old quick.
That´s a type of music that is very far from your ability of comprehension - and, clearly, far from your knowledge, because if you had read just a little little bit about this type of music and about him as a musician, you wouldn´t say these genius words about it. And , main thing : don´t you think that is really weird that you worry too much about it ? If you do not like it, why waisting your time coming back here ? You came here at least 3 times and you will probably come back again and again ... so, who is the weird ? Derek Bailey ???
freeavantgardevideos I somewhat understand your opinion. But please help me out here, instead of me bashing this vid, I would actually like to know what about this is amazing? Surely you can justify almost anything if you think hard enough...but how is this pleasant to listen to? It seems to me that if I could reconcile this as music and interpret the "Non-conformist" "Ideas" and concepts then I could listen to a 6 year old play and perform the required mental acrobatics in order to appreciate it. And one other thing....wouldn't he have had to master "standard" music practices and then go the other way in order for this to be valid? This is far more that a couple of deviations from the norm...at what point does it become about the listeners ability to justify this as even "music" and not noise. Btw in what way would this be hard to play and perform? Sorry for the huge novel of a comment but I am intrigued by this "Avant garde" movement. I would like a friendly response please.
***** learn which frets will produce a harmonic tone and make sure to hit one every few seconds, take a 7th chord and slide it feverishly back and forth over the frets, attempt a few shots at some 9th chords and when you can't quite pull them off, as a default, just gloss over them and make it sound like you were intentionally going for that staccato sound. jumble all of this out very quickly with excruciating repetition so your illusion of intensity may be even more convincing and one day you may be heralded as a gifted avant garde artist of magnanimous proportions as well. eat your heart out, edward van halen. say goodnight, john mclaughlin. this is avant garde magic.
been listening to Derek Bailey for more than ten years now and i still can't decide if i like what he does or not. i just listen to what he plays, and im always coming back to it, but i (still) couldnt say if im into it or if i hate it. props to the man for having done what he did. we need to keep in mind people like Fred Frith (Henry Cow), Jim O'Rourke among others were shown a different way to approach the guitar thanks to this dude.
Beautiful harmonics.A master'
what seems pretty clear to me is that people who love expressing themselves in cliches (emperor's new clothes, 6-yr-old, cat on piano, etc etc etc) will never appreciate why someone might want to dedicate their life to avoiding cliches (even if they inevitably create new ones in the process). they are two entirely different kinds of person, the first being vastly more common than the second. to avoid cliche you first have to notice that you're using it, and then you have to feel that you want to do better, but most people, sadly, don't get to stage 1, though they spend a lot of time attacking those who are further along the road that they don't even see the point of starting out on.
@@thebeatcreeper So what about Jazz? Be Bop IS a highly Intelectual Music. Duke Ellington was a very Intelectual Musicien. Combining Dance with Reflection has always been the mayor Force of Jazz. Take Dizzy Gilespies Cubob.
This is stunning! When I first heard him on record, I was blown away. He is still my model for creativity.
Love it. Thanks for uploading :)
thanks for sharing
Call it what you will..It is NOT music of ANY kind!!
my cup of tea ... it breathes!
lovely...antiguitar...thankyou
9:11 to 9:15 the kind of sound I live for.
What a master of harmonics this guy is. Not expecting the blues box crowd here to get it. You won't.
The thing is I can hear the tonal center running through it all. And it''s chunky like a chocolate bar.
Few people can realise THE IMPORTANCE of free improvisation...
oh god, that jam!
My favourite
Your six-year old most certainly couldn't do it. Not that that matters. Derek Bailey's playing is always sublime, ridiculous and intriguing. I think listening to Webern's late pieces points you in the right direction.
Peter Boughton Yes Anton Webern Opus 28 sound is like what Derek Did!
@@agamhamzah2924 Must hear, thanks.
I liked that bit where he made that joke about Bob Saget having a lot on his mind…his hat 😁.
Impeccable mastery of craft, surety of phrasing, formidable timbal - and tonal - variegation and a hard-won conviction that music is something perpetually interrogative; all of the above, coupled with a bluff and irreverent disdain for piffling, wan commentaries like this one, ensure that the man is sorely missed!
M Hughes
No, I wouldn't label your capsule summary of Bailey's virtues as "wan".
It did take me a while to learn how to listen to him(and other free improvisers) and I wish some
of the commenters here would try to work though the obstacles of their listening expectations and baseless feeling that Derek was trying the wool over everyone's eyes.
Really? Bc this is exactly what I sound like playing an electric guitar... And I've never played in my life lol. This sounds this is all a big joke and the audience has no idea and neither do y'all haha
@@kh7955 Pick up a guitar and prove it then.
Try recording it; show us how you sound if you can supposedly recreate it so easily. Tell us about your concept of spacing, dissonance, or harmonics. Actually demonstrate a working understanding of the topic instead of dismissing it using your shameless & open ignorance as a flimsy putdown.
If none of this is reasonable of me to expect, do not so boldly claim the contrary - that kind of aimless, stuttering, cynical, vacuous rhetoric is what kills experimentation in any medium of fine-art. Even casually or off-handedly, like this. We are vulnerable and conformist creatures who, in challenging conventional structure, are challenging how we express ourselves musically & in general. I'd honestly encourage that if I were you - because this is music that doesn't really make money on it's own, so it's a very honest and impassioned expression that shouldn't be suppressed if we want to continue being inventive. It's a boring world without new stuff, don't you think?
Almost every note here is a harmonic, almost every phrase is angular & dissonant, but it isn't completely random. He's playing notes on the minor & blues scale with jazz chords... just in a very free-form, erratic style with a lot of bizarre technique. This is music for people compelled by the craft more than the listening experience, in my opinion. He was very good at what he did, but what he did was very challenging and hard to listen to for people who don't give a shit about the academic or theoretical side of music.
You don't like it? Fine. It isn't your taste then. Not all music has theory anyways... unless you can tell me cavemen were writing sheet-music for their bone-flutes? Were they not expressing themselves explicitly through sound before music theory?
Even if this was a joke taking the piss out of the audience... so what? Comedy is still a performance art.
I'm sorry if this is tangential or excessive, but these kinds of comments deeply frustrate me.
@@someonecausticandignorant yea bc I have time for that. My whole point isn't that I do it better but that this sounds like someone such as myself, aka not a guitar player ever at all playing a guitar yet its supposedly so good? I call bullshit. Its like a Jackson Pollack painting
@@kh7955 Jackson Pollock
And Lo, Derek Bailey did enter through the pearly gates, whereupon he opened his guitar case and did start to 'jam' with the holy angels and their dissonance-free aeolian harps, and before long he was cast down to that Other Place which, just as chance would have it, happens to have all the best music. Amen.
Alien guitar playing...all conventional ways of playing the instrument thrown out the window. Thank god for diversity and for allowing the existence of Derek Bailey.
This isn’t for me, but i can’t really criticise it. What makes me uneasy about this whole thing is that if somebody says they don’t like it then fanboys jump on them and say they don’t like it cos they don’t understand it. Like there is some secret club who are the only people allowed to judge. Music is subjective, and if someone says it is bad or good it can only be opinion and opinions on taste simply cannot be wrong.
not liking it is fine. the issue is people claiming that there's no skill or method behind it and throwing around emperor's clothes type accusations. the way you expressed your opinion is completely legitimate but you gotta admit not everyone puts it quite like you did
Do you own and have the rights to this footage? I've sent you an email. Thanks.
I've been playing electric guitar for over 40 years and can say his method is not hapstance meandering but an extremely difficult execution. I could never do it.
I can. Did it it with one try.
@@Poochpatrol Please post.
This is how demons play “music” in hell.
wonderful. what a guy. much missed. talk about expanding the possibilities of the instrument
Predictability is the enemy of creativity.
is it?
what tuning is this ?
Seems like he's composing for other instruments. I don't know if i like this, but it's a crazy "point of view" about how to play an harmonic instrument.
discordance as style ??? kings new set of cloths .
"Solo"
hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
Oh man, that's good, i needed a solid laugh.
Douglas Proce So what do you find so funny?
What a doos....
Como você é fútil.
kurt is great but this guy is better. that is hard to do!
Gets a little too melodic at points...
RUclipsrs get too sensible, deep and genius at points ... ... ...
Yeah, right, in your dreams.
depois de um quilo de maconha eu passei a entender esse estilo de musica...
o_o tf
Interesting, not enough to build a career around it, enough to make a 10 minut caothic piece os music. It's the ideal music for asperger idiot pattern spotters
or maybe just music to listen to, rather than to try and make sense of.
Kurt cobain also knows how to do that!
Ah, the old Bailey Debate again. Is it playing? Is it virtuoso playing? Could my 6-year old do this? Could a chimpanzee makes this noise?
Well, no, your 6 year old couldn't do it, but he/she might do an 'approximation' of it. This is the point. The 6 year-old would do 'their' version of this 'process'. And it would reflect a 6-year old vision.
This is trying to find something new in a CREATIVE AND DISCONTINUOUS MANNER; but you have to be prepared for it. This is not trying to get people to like it. It won't 'hit the charts' soon. Good grief, it's experimental, obviously!! (*see below)
It has nothing to do with (regular sized) music at this level of abstraction; he just happens to be exploring time and its use, in this case, with a guitar.
(* most pop groups do their versions of something good that went before - nothing wrong with that - tried and trusted. They just wanna be liked ('buy our music, please') - Hey! i like pop too)
You do realize that he has no idea how to play a guitar right? I think his fans are reading something into his playing that really isn,t there. I would go as far as saying that he may have some mental issues if he believes he can actually play the guitar, this is just noise.
@@andrea4809 you do realize he absolutely knows how to play a guitar right? just read his wikipedia page and you'll see that he didnt just immediately start out playing like this. he was a session guitarist and played in a conventional jazz group
You are delusional. This is absolute nonsense!@@owenhu9465
@@andrea4809 what do you mean? im literally extracting the information from a cited source, how am i delusional?
Just because a page on the internet states he is a guitar player? proof is in the pudding!@@owenhu9465
i'd rather listen to the swans or bang my head on the side of the pool under water.
Hermeto Pascoal listened to the swans and other animals to develop his music. Actually, he kinda of lived with them. But you would hear only noises when listening to the swans, as you said. That´s why Hermeto is genius . '' Bang your head on the side of the pool under water '' ? Maybe that would help you to wash your ears. Uncomon sounds are not for you.
freeavantgardevideos maybe he meant "swans" the band
He's like a reincarnation of Bach and Beethoven rolled into one...tube
You can literally hear him missing notes/chords. I really cannot see the 'genius'...
Just absolute nonsense
he should do that without looking...might be even better!....lol. sounds like my 6 year old brother playing for the 1st time. good for a laugh but gets's old quick.
That´s a type of music that is very far from your ability of comprehension - and, clearly, far from your knowledge, because if you had read just a little little bit about this type of music and about him as a musician, you wouldn´t say these genius words about it. And , main thing : don´t you think that is really weird that you worry too much about it ? If you do not like it, why waisting your time coming back here ? You came here at least 3 times and you will probably come back again and again ... so, who is the weird ? Derek Bailey ???
freeavantgardevideos
I somewhat understand your opinion. But please help me out here, instead of me bashing this vid, I would actually like to know what about this is amazing? Surely you can justify almost anything if you think hard enough...but how is this pleasant to listen to? It seems to me that if I could reconcile this as music and interpret the "Non-conformist" "Ideas" and concepts then I could listen to a 6 year old play and perform the required mental acrobatics in order to appreciate it. And one other thing....wouldn't he have had to master "standard" music practices and then go the other way in order for this to be valid? This is far more that a couple of deviations from the norm...at what point does it become about the listeners ability to justify this as even "music" and not noise. Btw in what way would this be hard to play and perform? Sorry for the huge novel of a comment but I am intrigued by this "Avant garde" movement. I would like a friendly response please.
***** learn which frets will produce a harmonic tone and make sure to hit one every few seconds, take a 7th chord and slide it feverishly back and forth over the frets, attempt a few shots at some 9th chords and when you can't quite pull them off, as a default, just gloss over them and make it sound like you were intentionally going for that staccato sound. jumble all of this out very quickly with excruciating repetition so your illusion of intensity may be even more convincing and one day you may be heralded as a gifted avant garde artist of magnanimous proportions as well.
eat your heart out, edward van halen.
say goodnight, john mclaughlin.
this is avant garde magic.
Michael Lane The first question would be, why do you feel that music needs to be “pleasant” to listen to? Are all films “pleasant” to watch?