Here's Why Historical Combat is NEVER Authentic
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2022
- Historical reenactors strive for accuracy in all things. We get our wool, silk and linen fabric woven by hand on authentic medieval looms to the correct width and thread count. We have our swords and weapons hand forged by blacksmiths from iron of the correct elemental and chemical structure. We eat the right food, wear the right shoes, and spend thousands of pounds and dollars doing it for the fun of it.
Then we always get the fighting wrong. Always, in one way or another, we don't get it right on the battlefield.
Here's why that's ok! It's a hobby! You aren't a Viking, Graham! You're an IT consultant!
Let's go!
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“Do not try to fight me IRL… because you’re not a warrior, and neither am I, and I will call the police”
I actually started laughing
Same :D
Best line ever
😄😂🤣🤣😅😆
This was the moment I could kinda catch my breath…. This video was a plethora of wonderful words and expressions that need weird hare illuminations.
Thing is. I never have nor ever would call the police over a fist fight.. Back in school I literally KO'd another kid, he was out on the ground for a full five minutes before waking up. It was seven of them against me defending my younger brother. They were rightfully freaked out, conceded that despite them being just one year younger than me, that even if they managed to give me a sound beating, they weren't willing to go home with the beating they were guaranteed to receive in turn anyway. It still boggles my mind why people engage in a fist fight, and cry to police because they lost... JUST SAY YOU DON"T WANT TO FIGHT OVER IT AND WALK AWAY.
In the simplest of terms - the techniques that were historically effective, we are not allowed to use precisely because they are effective.
Come on man, why can't I just kill the other reenacters?
Yeah, turns out using murder manuals as reference for competitive sport can get slightly out of hand.
😂😂😂 - Saunds silly in the first moment, but mske perfect sense.
People would kill each other.
Same goes for judo or karste - it has to be declawed for sport.
Early judo sport competitions had many real bad injuries.
I remember reading the written account of a veteran medieval mercenary and his devastating line of "there is no God on the battlefield". They were *horrible*. War is horrible. It is bloody and traumatic
I completely agree with you. There is nothing good in war.
@@hoppytoad79 hey! some rich people get to make money!
Check the works of Hans Holbein the Younger and Urs Graf for realistic contemporary depictions of late medieval battlefields, the later was a mercenary himself.
@@spinecho609
Yup, even in the 20th Century, it was known that "War is a Racket". (Actual title of an essay by USMC General Smedley Butler)
I agree and, especially given current times. I dislike the glorification of war from the savage fetishism of dark age brutality through to the jingoism of the two* world wars.
The loss of life should never be celebrated. It can be rationalised, it can be a response to overthrowing a dictator, but never cheered.
*... Citation unfortunately needed.
'We must fight on!'
'And then we die,' said the Captain. 'We fight, and then we die. That's how it goes.'
'Then we die gloriously!'
'There's an important word in that sentence,' said the Captain. 'And it's not the word "gloriously".'
― Terry Pratchett, Only You Can Save Mankind
Different context, same mentality. Great quote. And GNU, Sir Terry
@@trikepilot101 Same here. :-)
Terry Pratchett has the most perceptive, cut to the bone quotes about human nature (and a lot of other things) that I've ever read. Favorite author of all time.
@@SilverionX Mine too, by a mile. I used to post a quote of his every day on FB, before FB became the bane of my existence.
@@nixhixx There are so many, you'll never run out :)
Fully lost it at “you’re an IT consultant, Graham”
Soldiers in modern conflicts often take off their body armour because it's hot and uncomfortable. Being more protected isn't always a positive, as it can negatively effect stamina and athletic performance. The same was undoubtedly true in the past. There have always been trade offs to be made, and a lot of them will be dependent on external circumstances.
One thing that's sometimes unconvincing about reenactment battles is the way combatants so often fight 'to the death'. Reenactors generally aren't worried about really dying, so rarely run away or surrender when the battle's not going their way. In historical battles people ran away and surrendered all the time. The majority of battles ended with one side scarpering, rather than being annihilated in an heroic last stand. Obviously, a lot of it's down to theatricality and adrenaline- if you've got all dressed up and armed to the teeth you want to put on a good show and the audience expects one, and that generally doesn't involve doing a 'brave Sir Robin', but it's still another aspect where reenactment often departs from historical reality.
😂🤣😂🤗🖖💕
Oh great, now that damn minstrel will be singing in my head for hours...
@@tinnagigja3723 🤣🤣🤣
To expand, at lest in Napoleonic times, the heaviest casualties were taken by a 'broken' enemy who were no longer collectively defending each other nor directly threatening their opponents (and thus discouraging them from offensive actions against themselves), except in extremis.
Also, from my memory (very dim) of historical analysis done years ago by my colleagues in the MOD, there is a large variation between nations, organisations and status of troops regarding at which point, measured in casualties taken, they break or surrender. And this remained fairly stable across the period of study, from the start of the American Civil War to the early 1990s. It appears that 'standards' regarding when to give up become embedded in the wider culture and measures that encourage continued resistance embedded in the military culture and experience, remaining stable between wars and periods of enlistment.
How people react to fear and seemingly inevitable defeat may be wildly different how we expect. I remember an event from the UK's deployment in the Balkans where a small unit from the Duke of Wellingtons Regiment found themselves caught in the open by a significant force dug in in trenches. One might expect them to retreat, they did not, they advanced. They knew that if they stayed static they would be picked off one by one, if they retreated they would probably fare similarly. So they attacked and superior morale and training won the day.
To link the Napoleonic experience with the above - if you know that running away is likely to get you killed all of a sudden you become less of an enthusiast for that option. So trained warriors, the most likely to know this, would *probably* (I am speculating, I know) hang on in the face of fear for longer than you might think, especially in a culture where surrender on the battlefield and the treatment of prisoners etc. wasn't that formalised.
Willingness to surrender would also be heavily influenced by the expected fate of the combatant, which would heavily depend on the circumstances of the fight and the status of the combatant. For example, if you a Lord capturing a location then ordinary farmers in the fight are valuable people you want back on the land at or near their old status and role, professional warriors close to their Lord are potential revenge-takers who you might be best advised to remove. So I would expect the farmers to surrender and the household troops to fight on much longer, getting their 'Revenge in early', before the victor has a chance to decide that they are to much of a risk to be allowed to live.
TLDR: I'm not so sure about the unreality of at least *some* combatents fighting to the last. They may have no option!
Absolutely true.
7:18 “The most egregious wound you’ve ever suffered, Dave, was the paper cut from restocking the printer.”
It has always bugged me that some people assume that fencing applied to mass scale combat.
Doesn't really affect anything you say, but reenactment is also meant to fun for an audience. So generally they try to make it look evenly matched. Generally in combat you are trying to make it as one sided as possible.
We had a short lived battle recreation group. We recreated the Charge of San Juan Hill. Our pre-battle briefing featured some homebrew moonshine then almost all the “Rough Riders” fell off their broomstick horses going up the hill. One Rider got to the top and joined the enemy forces in sipping more moonshine. Best recreation ever.
I have been in one reinactment-it was fun! But as a lifelong rider I can tell you-when you use real horses almost anything can and does happen! Stick horses are much more predictable.
Content Warning: Graphic Archaeology. 😱
Pike Combat always seems like it must have been an especially hideous thing to experience; weapons run through more than one person at a time, leaving the wounded, like a human shish kebab.
Thanks for another interesting presentation.
iirc, the Swiss and Italians referred to it as ‘bad war’ or ‘Nasty war’ so yeah, pretty awful
It was vile!
Vlad the impaler!
@@MadsterV Shish K'vlad
You forgot that artillery would also Strike whole Lines of men If it Hit. So you would be spraid by The Sitter parts of your Former buddys, The only choice pushing Forward AS The rows from behind Push you, meanwhile all depends in The Front Armor Ranks teaching TH enemy Line in time before morale Breaks and The Formation crumbles and horsemen come sweeping in to Clean you up
Thank you for this video! Very well put.
The perth chapter had to call the police on this whacko who started fully being violent during the melee while screaming about valhalla and how "beserk strong" he was. He was later charged with multiple assaults. People were so upset and it ruined the day, especially because he head butted a father leaving him severely concussed and left his two kids screaming and weeping. Lesson: You are not a viking. Sit the f down.
Yikes!! 😬 That does raise an interesting question for me, though...
TLDR: Can the fact that reenactment is "historical" attract people with problematic attitudes, esp in the Viking space, and if so do groups have specific strategies in place for combating this? (No pun intended!)
Longer version: Do reenactment societies often have to deal with individuals who get into it because they think it's an escape from the modern attitudes to safety etc that Jimmy was talking about?
We've all met a few of those people who go on about the youth of today being wusses, safety regulations making everyone soft, women getting uppity, you name it 🤮 As well as the simply 'macho' types who're so proud of how they get injured and just ignore it... 🙄
I can't help wondering whether some of these people might tend get attracted to historical reenactment - particularly combat and Viking groups - due to thinking of it as a supposed return to 'older mores', whether those be around physical assault, se*ual harassment, or just bullying others in general? And if so, whether groups are required by their umbrella organisations to have specific H&S plans and codes of behaviour that might help manage this...?
From what I've seen in following the costube community, they've had to develop some pretty clear statements around "vintage style not vintage values" to deal with those types of onlookers or participants who see the past as some kind of golden age, so I'm curious as to whether the historical reenactment community might have even more of that to deal with, given its more immersive nature...?
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Absolutely! It attracts quite dangerous people who are racist, misogynistic, homophobic, you name it. Especially, it seems, if they are "GOT" or "Vikings" Tv show fans. We get half a dozen trying to join every year. I am not actively involved for the past few years because of that. I don't have the constitution anymore to politely ask nasty people to leave.
In my, limited, personal experience, not in Denmark, for viking stuff. Pretty much everyone has been nice an super Safety conscious. However having drunk a few drinks with reenactors from abroad, a few have mentioned a less carefull philosophy. I suspect this is also because here this is local history, and thus much less mythologized, in a ra ra manner.. Much of OUR viking era history in school is about farmers and seamanship. So our reenactment societies are anchored in museums and frequent include historians from there.
@@larskjar that's interesting to know. Our new group is Saxon, because we live in historically saxon territory, and this has brought a very full and wide ranging aspect to our reenactment. We did this because it always stikes us as odd how many people want to essentially pretend to be from Denmark/Scandinavia, because of course this is where "Vikings" were from. I love the comedy series "Norsemen" over any Hollywood/Netflix "Vikings" type of film/series because it's made by Scandinavian people who are the descendents of the real early medieval people of that time, and so everything, the accents, the humour, the culture is all much more authentic even with the sarcastic LARP type costumes lol
The way some folks over here try to reenact "Vikings" makes it look like they're thinking a gateway from helheim opened and these savage superman northmen materialised mid ocean in their dragon ships etc etc etc.
Always really cool to see the ordinary life aspect of Scandinavian history at that time
AHH YES !! THE TRUTH MUST BE TOLD !! As soon as i saw the title i knew this video would be great
I’d like to add tuppence worth from the first aiders perspective, just for a moment.
We have, for the most part, the place in the sidelines with bags and boxes hidden under rugs and “furs” to hide our very obvious not “Viking, or insert time period here” equipment, whilst we often are crafters of some type, that can be cast aside in a heartbeat and we change from “craft of choice” to deeply serious and fully focused. (Personal note here, it’s always just a difficult point in the craft an incident occurred) we carry sharp shiney and pointed implements which we will go through your leather straps, we won’t waste time unbuckling if we can’t hear you breathing, or can see more blood than we are happy with. To us your beautiful armour is second to you as a body to be cared for. So do be aware we will cut straps.
Those same sharp items will be used on your clothing, if we need too. So be aware we just don’t care.
And if we really need to those same items will be used to “help” us explain to you that while you might care what the (show, fight, joust, who’s winning) mean to you, we are tasked with the unenviable task of looking after the bodys and making sure you get home in one piece.
We like our first aid to be easy and uncomplicated, an ice pack or glass of water, an easy fix of a plaster. We dislike having to actually “do” that really complicated first aid we trained for, it means some one is actually hurt. We don’t like that.
So, please think, for the sake of the first aiders (who are often the cooks for some reason) don’t be dumb and play safely! (And drink the water to avoid heat stroke!)
Really fascinating perspective!! I've been a workplace HSR myself for years but for some dumb reason, hadn't thought about the absolute need for first aiders in these types of combat hobbies... Even where people are being careful accidents can still happen in sport, esp. with inexperienced or over-zealous people involved! Very cool that you and your colleagues are there to make sure any such incidents don't escalate to direness 👍⛑
When groups are camping out, do you also have to pinch-hit as the voice of reason ensuring nobody drinks unsanitised water, poops in dumb places or gives themselves hypothermia?? 🤦🏻♀️
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 depends on the situation. Unlikely that there would be unsanitary water or lack of toilets as we tent to want some levels of comfort. Heatstroke and hypothermia, are often the types of things we can counter. When you say colleagues, we are volunteers in the re-enactment groups. Just to make sure people understand that.
Unless it’s a huge event it’s unlikely there will be paid first aiders on site.
As mentioned above, most of us have multiple roles and those who cook have great controls over their teams! 😜
This reminds me of every time me or any other equestrian hurt their foot/leg while falling off. We know that if we get too swollen no one will be able to take off our tall, skinny boots and will cut them open. They're expensive so the first thing everyone says is "Take off the boot." And that's how you know they're not unconsious even before getting there to check on them.
@@helenahsson1697 oh yes! I understand completely. Been there done that!
A lot of this applies to other periods as well. In 18th Century reenacting our battle scenarios are often so far removed from the way things were historically done that I sometimes question why we bother with it at all. Nothing quite like a "bayonet charge" of three people against a numerically superior force... of ten people.
ZEAL.
I know this from english civil war too.
Nothing quite like two blocks of 30 pikemen advancing on each other then carefully lifting the pikes out of the way and turning it into an armoured scrum.
Yeah 18th century living history in the US is they same way. Combat is way way too close. When if you look at the historical record, troops were engaging in musket volleys at 400-350 yards away. Laying down/kneeling without orders, etc. The thinking of oh they marched in, chest puffed out, taking casualties along the way, getting blasted by cannon, to get with in 30 yards of the enemy, fire off a volley, then charge in with the bayonet is a total crock. Did that happen as well, yeah probably, but your men were shaken and ready to break and run at that point.
@@TheWelshViking Would I be not welcome on-field if I combined My German and Scottish Ancestry via My Outfit? I Love Representing My Scottish Ancestry that way.
Lady Freydis Wolvesbrat here; I hear you brother time traveler. We do the best we can. We barely have enough people to HAVE opposing sides. LOL Did an exhibition in a local high school. On stage in the auditorium. And the smart-steed little ones start saying "but it's not realistic." Uh, yeah. No real intestines bulging, no brain matter on the stage. Thankfully most of them really really liked their impromptu "living history" school program. Chris, have FUN and best of luck!
And just after the nine minute mark all I could think of was that iconic Indiana Jones moment with the showing-off swordsman, Indy going "meh" and shooting him. (Mind you the next thing that came to mind was James Burke in one of his Connections episodes, talking about doing back-of-the-drum math for calculating siege weaponry attack angles, going "And while you were doing all of that, they shot you.")
I knew the answer as soon as you started: blood. Reenactors don't do blood nor its corollary, death. (Lawsuits are a pain)
Fencing is for CIVILIANS, not soldiers on a battlefield. Fencing is for duels, when rich men get pissy at each other for insults.
I am an 18th c reenactor and when we fire the cannon we have a "cone of safety" where if anyone is in it we can't fire. Just b/c they're blanks doesn't mean it's not dangerous!
Thank you. I have known this for decades, but had trouble telling non-fighters of this. Fighters know that it is not war. It is harder to tell the non-fighters this.
The mind boggles.
absolutely right. they just don't seem to be able to grasp the different mindset.
I prefer restricting my fighting to the tabletop; so much nicer when the most dangerous thing is risking putting your back out trying to retrieve errant dice from under the furniture. 😜
I know what you mean. I don't like violence so I prefer to keep my combat skills limited to video games. 😄
An acquaintance, somewhat the worse for wear, was bet that he couldn't touch the ceiling of the room he was playing in, with his chin. He stood on a chair, stretch his neck up, wobbled, and fell on to a 15mm Ancient Greek Army, mainly armed with piano wire pikes. 😳🤕
@@euansmith3699 yikes! At least it was free acupuncture I guess? 🤷🏻♂️
😝
I wonder what happened irl that triggered Jimmy into explaining such an obvious thing.
This video gives me "I met an idiot and I needed to vent" vibes. Get it together Graham!!
So many Grahams, Nemo. So many...
Usually at our events we have a weapons and armour table, and usually the person manning it will regale the public with tales of bloody, ruthless *realistic* combat, the injuries, some anecdotes from history and sometimes a choreographed demonstration of how a one-on-one fight could have gone down. Keeps us humble, reminding ourselves we're just (de)glorified fencers with chonky foils!
Our kids battle workshop is probably the most authentic in that we give them a bunch of foam swords and they just beat us senseless until we crumble to the ground haha
A big thing I don't see a lot of in HEMA and some other groups is respect for the weapon. Call it fear, call it self preservation, whatever. But most folks, especially in tournaments, are more interested in hitting then preventing themselves from getting hit. Also, the cut is favored over the thrust, and hand/forearm hits that won't leave a welt are not respected.
These issues, I'd say, are symptoms of the artificiality of this being a sport or game. Hitting is more important, in the rules, so that's all that matters. There are few consequences for getting hit, so long as you hit first. Big hits that the judges can see are more important then small hits that could sever tendons or open veins.
It's a game, not a fight. Not "battle".
@@Bourikii2992 You see cuts favored by German Renaissance fencing manuals, which focuses on civilian duels, IE: minimal armor, killing having severe legal ramifications. So cuts are favored for their lack of lethality. Its pretty telling which mindset was effective, as german fencing was merely a regional sport by the 16th century and died out by the 17th. That emphasis on civilian sport fencing is why you see so much "attack, attack, attack" in german schools, because by the end they were a game of sword tag. The Italian fencing schools trained officers (including german ones) into the 20th century, and the living traditions survive to this day.
Pre-gunpowder warfare has always been reliant on thrusting, with the spear being the king of the battlefield. The migration era was no different, with swords being sidearms for if shit went south. As armor increased, this emphasis on thrusting weapons likewise increased. Type XV sword, rondel daggers, large top-spikes on pollaxes. Not to say cuts don't have their advantages, but thrusts are far more lethal. Its probably the source of the shit-talk you mentioned: a thrust is a quick kill, rather then drawing things out in a "unga bunga" manly fashion.
"Near mythical tempered steel swords"? "Tall end of the Roman empire"? Oh boy... So those trade routes that brought that "near mythical" steel up to Scandinavia? Those went through a place called Byzantium, the capital of the Roman empire until it was conquered by the Turks in 1453. They had plenty of this steel. History! Turns out you can read it.
I have been in the SCA since the 80s and I couldn't agree more. I also had some experience in a Trauma center because of work. And our hobby is one we want to and almost always come home from. I have seen the worst injurys from drinking and stupidity not on the field. This is a sport for fun, a game. This is nothing like it would have been. Thank you for your videos.
Yes, this. Among other things (Red Cross first aid volunteer for a while), I've dealt with SCA "salami injuries" involving alcohol and sharp weapons. Blood can shoot remarkable distances from just a severed finger. Not SCA, but I've also dealt with finding someone hacked up with a real samurai sword. Not something I would wish on anyone. (Still not as bad as being first on scene at a fatal car accident.) And yes PTSD is real. I reenact American Civil War to try to show why we don't want to do this again. I can imagine what it's like for those who had to deal with actual war scenarios, but would rather not.
I think the only thing I would add to the 'People thought differently' is that people were probably, in general, more inured to Death and Serious Injury then we are. While the state of the 'horrible middle ages' can be overdone it was still possible for a pretty horrific agricultural accident to take out a member of your family at any time, or for a tooth infection to kill your parents with seemingly no recourse or for your mother to die in childbirth or be immolated while cooking over an open fire.
So the hesitance we might feel before cutting someone open might have been just slightly lessened. Not to mention an entire society, regardless whether you were Saxon,Viking or Briton, telling you (if you were a man) that warfare was the crucible from which manhood came.
The thinking differently is a very “developed nation” mindset. Shockingly are countries in the world today where life expectancy is less than 50! I believe Sierra Leone is something like 38 for men. Many African, South American and Asian countries have a very different mindset to life and death than we do, as health care, education and life standards are much poorer. And religion is much stronger. In many African countries a rivalry could end in a machete attack or a thief might be beaten to death by a mob, much more akin to medieval times. By the way this isn’t a slur against the people of these countries, they are just people living in very different conditions to “developed” countries.
It's worth noting that this isn't a blanket trend, as there are a good few people in developed countries who have meted out violence and suffered it for minor offences. Nature/nurture is also at play here. Brutal, violent, murderous people exist everywhere.
Jumping in randomly from the side, and just saying that it's a bit weird writing "Saxon, Viking, or Briton". It's a bit like writing "German, Plumber, or French". The Vikings weren't a specific people/nation, but more akin to a "job", and what we refer to as Vikings today were groups of people from several different nations in Scandinavia.
@@PhilipZeplinDK while true, there's also a issue of language as a tool to communicate here. The 'meaning' of Viking as it is understood by people in the general public is groups of Scandinavian raiders and settlers who left their home regions and arrived in Britain.
If this was an academic article rather then a RUclips comment I might break it down to Dane,Anglo-Dane, Hiberno-Norse etc but for simplicities sake it conveys the point fine.
Equally the bit it appears in is specifically about the warrior cultures and how they influenced perceived ideas of manhood so would have applied more generally to those involved in going Viking then to your average person.
@@BrotherJing1 Eh, I can't really agree. You wouldn't say "Regardless if you were Chinese, Samurai, or Vietnamese", and then try and excuse "Samurai" to mean "Asian warrior culture" or something.
It just doesn't make sense to use it that way. Saying "people that have no clue what they're talking about say it like this" doesn't make it more correct.
I also very much disagree that the "meaning of Viking as it is understood by people", is Scandinavian raiders who went to Britain. That's an extremely Britain-focused narrative, that doesn't make much sense in the rest of the world.
The same groups of people were also the first Europeans to go to North America. They also went to the Middle East. They also raided Germany and France, among many other nations, and even married into the French royal family.
Those people were also traders and merchants, and generally did a lot of farming - something engrained in our culture to this day.
Excellent video as always! The smell of burst open bowels and warm blood is not a good one. Even in a modern operating room. You can trust me on that.
Tip from the towns healer. If you have testes and you want to be able to have kids at some point in the future - protect the groin area. Blunt trauma to them can decrease fertility.
And for the love of all of the gods - concussions are not minor. If you just get one, usually you get better within a few months but some people have complaints for years. Repeated concussions make things worse. And if you really get a lot of blows to the head and/or multiple concussions, you are at risk for chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a condition that can cause severe memory loss, disorientation, mood swings, parkinsonism, and severe disability. (What they used to call boxers dementia.) Please protect your head.
Anyways, all hobbies come with risk and no one is able to ban all risk from their lives. But please be smart about these things.
I love this and I feel this this applies to all weirdly romantic ideas about the past and particularly presentism that assumes they thought exactly the same way we do and had the same values or if they didn’t it was because they were evil in some way.
Examples I can think of are people who think they’d love to live in the 50s because of the fashion or because it was when ‘men were men and women were women’ while disregarding the rampant racism and sexism and the fact that the British Gas company had to change the type of gas being supplied to homes to a non-lethal kind as so many housewives were just sticking their heads in the oven.
And the people who genuinely love the idea of living in a medieval castle or being a Knight or a Lady but don’t imagine themselves burying all 7 of their children within a week because they got the shits.
I have distant Irish ancestors and I love learning the language and visiting the beautiful parts of the country where they lived but I also imagine my great great great granny and granddad, who left Ireland rather than stay and starve to death, would probably take umbrage with me imagining myself happily living in a windswept Mayo cottage in 1850 and any romanticism that I, a woman with central heating and access to antibiotics and Aldi, would attach to that image.
I was born in 1953 and grew up around Los Angeles, so, yeah, absolutely.
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First of all: THANK you for this video. As a reenactor who did his part of fighting - mostly knife, seax and axe fighting for me - and both got some bones broken and broke some bones while doing so, I can only agree with you: as authentic we try to do it, it is always only sports, or better: it should always be only sports.
One thing you mentioned was really strange for me: I never heard the terms "Eastern and Western style" before, I only heard "full contact" or "6 hit zones rule" and similar terms.
Since I started medieval fighting in east Germany, I started learning full contact, but I have seen and done so many styles/rule systems that I can not even name all of them. Most of them agree in one rule: no direct hits on the head, regardless of the helmet worn (PLEASE always wear a helmet and gloves, be it authentic or not!). I personally would like to add one more rule: never ever pair two inexperienced fighters. The amount of serious injuries ive seen happening under this circumstances are enough for a lifetime.....
> "... and both got some bones broken and broke some bones ..."
Have you considered switching to chess as a pastime? 😟
AS AN EASTERN STYLE VIKING REEANACTOR FIGTHER FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND ALSO A WORKING VIKING . I TOTALY AGREE WITH YOU. I ALWAYS WERE MY HELMET AND MY GLOVES ON THE BATTLE FIELD. HEADSHOTS IS ALOUDE IN ESTERSN STYLE FIGHING BUT NORMELY NOT IN THE WESTERN STYLE .LIKE HUSKARL OR MOSSGARD. (WESTERN STYLE FIGHTING) STAY SAVE ON THE BATTLEFIELD IS THE MAIN THING. MAY ODIN PROTECT YOU ON THE BATTLEFIELD .
You are correct. For war. Looking at high medieval through the end of the renaissance, there were also tournaments where they didn't actually try to kill each other (though it did happen...). Personally, I look at bohurt, SCA, HEMA, and the like, as re-births of these tournaments. A war is not a tournament. As researchers and educators, we need to know the difference. Do I enjoy modern recreations of medieval tournaments? HELL YES! Do I think it would be fun to fight in a real medieval battle? HELL, NO! I'd die horribly, Enjoy modern tournaments. They are not war.
Vey good point! A tourney is sport!
Well done Jimmy (as usual). Fantastic video.
As someone from a military family it boggles my mind that anyone could think of re-enactment fighting as “the real thing”.
Yes, you can practice know techniques & be the best on field, but yeah you’ll never be someone from that period…
Having said that I do admire those who study the martial arts & practice them regularly.
Oh & if anyone wants a good doco to watch to proof Jimmy’s point “Medieval Dead: the battle of Visby” is pretty good as they found fully armoured skeletons buried in a mass grave & studied how they died…
Thanks for the documentary title. I'm very interested. I just searched it and will be watching it shortly.
The medieval battlefield: a perfect, blood-soaked vision of hell. I'm glad I missed it.
Nevertheless, this video's release proved rather timely: I just came home from an evening of weapons practice at aikido, and the differences in training technique and mentality that you mention here are much on my mind already! In fact, tonight I finally realized a tendency towards striking and parrying too far out from target areas, which is probably a holdover from learning *stage combat* previously! And it only took me a decade's worth of training and more than 20 years of my adult life to figure this out!
First Day of Zombie Apocalypse: Jimmy and sharpens all his weapons.
You know it!
Very nice and cheerful video. The photos of “lamellar tanks” are hilarious. ))) I saw people like this in the Polish line at Wolin, while I myself was protected by three tunics (linen, wool and leather), nasal helmet with an aventail and a shield… They didn’t look as funny back then. :)
One thing I think you forgot to mention is blunt and sharp weapons working differently mechanically and, consequently, modern fighters doing a ton of stuff people in the past probably tried to avoid. Trying to move an opponent’s shield by hitting it really hard won’t work, if your weapon is sharp, it’ll probably penetrate and get stuck. Hitting close to the edge of someone’s shield with a spear in order to “open him up” for your friends to poke - same thing, spear will penetrate and then you’ll be playing “tug of war” (no pun intended) with your equipment. Sharp blades bind on contact, blunt ones slide along each other. A beloved technique of many modern-day fighters - parrying with the blade, was probably anathema for early medieval fighters, because the swords were both damn expensive and finicky in terms of quality. And the list goes on and on…
I've been doing reenactment for many years and I'm glad you said that people aren't Vikings. People get way to serious about the gear and it's more about just having fun. Don't get me wrong I think people should look the part but not everyone has got the money and some people just get started doing reenacting/ renaissance faires. Anyhow people just need to have fun and enjoy a little piece of history or the past. Great video like always man 😁👍
Oof, those descriptions of injuries were stomach-curdling; as is absolutely appropriate! Great stuff, thank you 👍.
I'm not a reenactor, but even I realised that the whole "we all want to walk off the field in one piece" thing really doesn't fit with the idea of "I must kill as many of the other side as I can, to save my own life/protect my country/insert reason for going to battle" point of actual warfare.
And yeah, PTSD is a real thing, both for those who fight in wars and the civilians who live in war zones etc.
THANK YOU!!!! Oh my god thank you so much for making a video of this. There's too many reenactors that do this. I am a reenactor that is also a fighter and it's been so bad lately with people thinking they are on some mission sent from their jarls or what have you that fighting hasn't been fun at all.
So there really are idiots out there who need to hear this?? I know nothing about the re-enactor scene, but I thouoght anyone even thinking about taking part would know it's all just pretend and a bit of fun
Bad apples in every barrel, alas!
Rhino hides! Nothing is hard enough.
@@TheWelshViking I'd love it if you did a list video on the top 5 or 10 most stupid things people believe about reenactment. Having read through the other comments after leaving mine, I can see this could be a rich vein of entertainment :D
@@paulaunger3061 Possibly a valuable resource for anybody who is thinking to join or especially start such a group, as well? It pays to know what sort of issues and nutjobs you may have to look out for, even in one's funtime activities... 😏
The last Norse convention I went to (between phases of the plague) the champion of all the combat reenactments was a woman who used a spear. No helm, no armor, no shield. Just a spear and talent.
2:50
I've had to explain to people I work with before. Fortunately I'm quite open about what I do for hobbies so they were all vaguely aware that I did something involving combat. Not had any serious injuries as of yet, counting myself lucky, but I have had question about why I am limping slightly. Doesn't help that my current job is part of the returns team in a clothing shop, so its pretty noticeable when you're dragging a rail full of clothing whether you're limping or not from bruises.
Too bloody right. As you intimately know Jimmy I'm setting up a group for full contact authentic HEMA-led tournament combat which means we're using what they were using (blunted weapons) and we're doing what they were doing (not trying to kill each other) it's as about as authentic as we can get in re-enactment fighting. But I've still made a 32 page bloody safety document for good bloody reasons.
Although I must disagree on the eastern combat thing. There are some bloody good eastern groups out there that are very close to regia and other leading groups on authenticity
That's why I said it's not useful term;)
And a very good 32 page document it be!
@@TheWelshViking well to that I say
"touche", concedingly
and then, "touche", but with sexual gratification
Any videos where I can watch eastern groups with proper regia fight each other full force then?
@@lithose1764 that's not how that works. Regia do not fight eastern style.
@@TurnierRustung still got any good vids then?
When you described the brutal hammering of blades into skulls, the blood, the gore, the screaming, the crapping of pants, the crying women despaired over the deaths of their husbands and sons, the very real PTSD, assumed to be the leading factor as to why warriors and knights of the times WERE ACTUALLY SO BRUTAL, even when not in the battlefield... That was a very profound and emotion and thought provoking statement, and in the way you presented it... Very, very well put.
I really loved watching this video! I’m listening to you and hearing how my clients hurt themselves. (I’m a massage therapist) I see it with certain sports like BJJ. One client will not even spar with anyone younger than him because they don’t know how to practice without major injuries. I nearly died when the pop up of, “ you work in IT Graham”. 😂😂😂😂
I have no idea what prompted this magnificent rant, but it deserves a standing ovation.
Thank you, Jimmy. Thank you.
In Naples, Italy me and my old reenactment society used to call it "full contact", cause, yea, why not be friend instead? ❤️ I'm still terrified by the only "full contact" reenactor I meet, tho. He's precisely the type of person who need to see this video! p.s. sorry for any language mistake.
Loved this. As a reenactor I totally agree with the points you raised here. Great video, actually made me smirk.
"You are an IT consultant, Graham!" made me spit out my drink :D I do hope that many people will see this video and rethink their approach to the fighting part of living history/reenactment. Having been to Wolin and heard enough stories of similar events, I can attest it is a bit awkward to watch those "wArRiOOors" pretend to be authentic vikings throughout the battles. Then again, there are a lot more pressing issues with Wolin that would need addressing first but that would take a while to discuss. I also thank you for introdcuing me to the phrase armadillo glove, I will henceforth only use that term to refer to them!
I was a clerk in a human services firm. dresses, nylons, etc. I'd come back from the wars injured almost every year.(during my fighting career) People expected this social worker to knit on the weekends, and were gobsmacked when I told them HOW I got hurt.
6:40 I think about this a lot. When you watch a movie from, say, the 1940’s the mannerisms are drastically different than now. Jump back 500, 1000 years and the norms, taboos, and (definitely) combat would be so different. There is where modern movies miss the mark so badly: they get nice sets, impressive costumes, but everyone is vaguely British and clearly a modern person. Ancient cultures where weird, and it’s too bad it’s not shown more on screen.
Also combat would have been horrible.
I always romanticized medieval combat until I started reenactment fighting with a spear and realized just how brutal real combat must have been. I was in the Army for years and I’d prefer shooting from a distance to being that close and intimate with an enemy.
I prefer a spear....death from eight feet away. Or archery. Not real good one on one with a dagger, I need the DISTANCE!
Nice one Jimmy. The thing I always tried to keep in mind when doing re-enactment battles was safety, first of all, closely followed by "put on a good show". People paid money to watch us do these events so I wanted to reward them for that however I could. I'd like it to be as accurate as possible but you've got to compromise somewhere.
Also.... pike pushes. Yeah....
Armor do not weigh a ton, BUT it do weigh some and therefore: More armor = less breath, less breath = faster tired, faster tired = faster dead. Dead is not fun, better to take a bit more risk and live.
Not to mention, you also need to carry that extra armor when you are NOT fighting, and people are lazy. Just look at how commen it is for modern soldiers to take out their armor plates from their protective gear when going on patrol
There are definitely times where I'll get the feeling that while I'm happily enjoying your video there are vast groups of people going tomato red and taking intense offence as you prod their self-concept. One gets the feeling there are people who take very seriously their cosplay and reenactment weekends. I must say, though, if I were to come up against some nutjob who took their warrior reenactment battle a little too far and actually whacked me deliberately - there would be police involvement quick smart!
I dunno man I lost a thumbnail doing reenactment combat once. Total brutal.
I once copped an accidental glaive to the jaw.
My first reaction was to begin stripping off my leather curaisse so it wouldn't get icky-stinky blood on it.
I suspect someone in real cpmbat would probably have different priorities.
Here in the States we get a lot of Civil War and WWI/WWII reenactments. I'd love to see a Medieval reenactment, but as far as participation goes, fencing is good enough for me. Epeeists can be pretty crazy anyway... And we're proud of it!
I love this kind of videos because i get to give my very valid point of view from a very unknown country from South America called Chile.
And here is the thing, i get to say that i am a Warrior and since according to the law i am a "raider" and since that is the meaning of a viking then heck, i am one Viking Warrior
So if you didn't know in 2019 there was a revolution here for months and the state violated human rights (i implore you to investigate about Fabiola Campillai and Gustavo Gatica) and i participated until corona virus striked. And it was bloody as it could get specially from the ones with weapons and guns and the law on their side.
But here is the thing, after months of intense combat a few far-right nazis decided that they wanted to pretend they were warriors as we were (by then we were using shields and strategy and sadly we got people being killed or blinded or arrested or worse) so they marched in a very rich part of town with SHIELDS ...and everyone was like " why the fuck they using shields? what are they resisting they are even being escorted by police"🤣
But here is the sad part of the comment, few videos ago, you were talking about BERSERKERS and how they weren't folks who used drugs and went on a rampage but more like people with very serious PTSD and Jimmy, when i heard that i felt like you just hit the nail, being in combat like that, you have no idea what's gonna happen, everytime i went to fight i knew it could be my last day on earth or every time i saw people losing their eyes or straight up dying but we kept fighting.
Wanna finish my comment saying that i love you videos, i love when you expose nazis on their bullshit and ¡libertad para lxs presxs de la revuelta!
10:15 oh boy..that description, for example things like hearing someone talk about that, made me re-live the worst things.
don't worry i am choosing to watch the whole thing
Hey, stay safe and be well, mate. I know a lot of what happened over there from friends, so I'm glad you've come through it safe and I appreciate you sharing your experience with us here.
Be careful! Have fun, play hard, but don't hurt each other! (Mum)
Authentic battle would involve blood…..I mean, that’s how you keep score….BLO…..(bits lopped off). Jousting is probably the most dangerous historical recreational “battle” type pastime. However it’s not really battle recreation, and it was just as dangerous a sport when it was an essential skill of any knight as it is now. In the past battle was fighting to the death, and most people didn’t expect to come out of it, didn’t have all the fancy kit that the wealthy had, and could only hope to have a good death ie: relatively quick and not lying, gutted in a ditch, watching your entrails spill all over.
I worked too hard on baking this cake to have spit it out laughing at "You're an IT consultant, Graham", but I came VERY close.
Happy for the insight, and lovely ring!
I so much enjoy your content and very much appreciate when you are able to take time from you doctorate.
I laughed my ass of at 7:12 as I know the man in the photo.
This whole thing is something I see as a very "European" thing, in Australia we have insurance bodies that we have to abide by the bylaws in order to be covered for any serious injury we get on the field, that's why we end up wearing armour similar to that of "Eastern style" a lot of the time, I think QLHF (Queensland Living History Foundation) states that we have to wear gauntlets/gloves, vambraces, neck protection of some form (be it chainmail or padded), gambeson (up to 20mm thick on compression), a cup and a helmet (which has to have a suspension liner+arming cap because headshots) in order to play on the field but this is a blanket rule across periods not just "early medieval/Viking" reenactment.
This also leads to the problem that people hit harder because they "don't feel the hit" or they think "that wouldn't have made it through my armour" and keep fighting which leads to the opponent hitting harder, which leads to the recipient getting thicker armour, which itself becomes a circular issue then because you end up having local manufacturers make swords/axes heavier so that the kinetic energy is felt through that thick armour, which then leads us back to the start.
I too burst out laughing at the random inclusion of a shot of Quarf.
Someone FINALLY mentions the psychology of the battlefield! Most videos just talk about HEMA skills and techniques. Using a training sword against someone who is not trying to kill you is NOT anywhere near close to real combat. Subscribed!
Excellent video! Very much enjoy your channel. Blessings to you and yours and looking forward to your next video.
This was a really well done video! Thank you for making it :)
I was a part of medieval combat society in my teens and learned a lot about fighting. My weapons were the quarter staff and a bastard sword (not at the same time of course.) Our weapons were made from PCV pipes, foam, and cloth so not as cool as the stuff you do Jimmy but a lot of fun nonetheless. No shots to the head, hands, feet, or groin. Anything in the torso is a kill. One hit on a limb you can’t use that limb anymore. Lose two limbs and your dead. Oh and no stabbing, only hitting.
One summer I was working at a Boy Scout camp and some of the other teen staffers had made weapons out of tree branches, foam, and duct tape. Honestly they were basically ruffer versions of the quarter staff I was used to fighting with in my “combat days”.
They wanted to have some bouts so I taught them the rules that we had used in my group. It’s good to have rules so people don’t get hurt and so you have a clear winner. These boys took turns beating each other and I wanted to get in on the fun too. One of these kids (we’ll call him Kevin) had been going on all summer about how he was a “real ninja warrior” and could beat up anyone in camp. He was extremely annoying about it and I was kind of tired of his boasting and decided that now was the time to finally shut him up about how good a fighter he was. So I volunteered to go next. Kevin had no idea what he was getting into. I basically destroyed him in about 5 seconds flat. It did finally shut him up about being a ninja and I was rather please with myself to have taken the wind out of his obnoxious sails.
I then got a go at all the other guys in fighting for the top spot of our little tournament. This one really large kid (who will call Little John) had feet so large we used his footprints to convince the little 11 year old campers that there were yetis in the woods. Anyway Little John was the only other undefeated fighter and everyone was convinced he was going to win. I mean there was a large size difference between us. He was about a foot and a half taller than me and more than twice as wide. Even I was little intimidated but I knew if I went in fast and hard he probably wouldn’t have time to protect himself and I was right. I brought him down pretty quickly too. None of them stood a chance really. I just had too many skill points on them.
Later that day one of the scout masters who had seen us playing came up to me and said, “I thought you were just this sweet little girl who lead the sing-a-longs around the campfire but you are really visage and mean aren’t you?”
😳
To be honest I was a little taken aback by his backhanded “compliment” and wondered if I had been too hard on them.
😰
Then I thought, no I hadn’t been too hard on them.
🤔
I have skills in weapons combat acquired over hours of practice in mock battles.
💪🏻
And that was the game we were playing. And I won fair and square, gosh darn it! So who are you to try are take that away from me by suggesting I’m mean?!?!?!?😠
Granted we were using my rules to a game I had been playing for several years but that’s beside the point.
(I didn’t actually say any of this to him. He was a practical stranger and I was at my place of employment. If memory serves I just said, “ Um no.” And walked away)
So don’t underestimate me just because I’m a girl. You might just get the snout beat out of you in a mock medieval battle.
this is an amazing story! I miss my combat club fighting days in uni, it was really fun
You're a kindred spirit, girl! I learned street fighting from my Apache uncle at a tender age. ("Never start a fight, but be the one who finishes it.") I gained a reputation with the guys in Junior High and High School of someone not to mess -"she knows how to fight." I've taken it forward for over 50 years in various combat arts.
You are smashing videos lately my dude, keep up the work!
How kind, I'm doing me best!
Well said. Thank you again, you're always worth watching!
I wanna continue the sentence "you're not a warrior" with "and that's a good thing!"
I remember seeing a reenactment of an American Civil War battle, and how obvious (to me, at least) it was it wasn't actual battle. They put on a good show for the public, which is all that truly matters. I got a kick out of the Northern regiment's doctor/surgeon, who had his area set up with period-authentic instruments, or replicas of instruments, and the reactions of people when he'd tell them about what he did for/to the troops. Battlefield 'medicine' isn't for the weak of stomach. ;D Talking with him about Civil War-era doctoring was a *very* interesting conversation.
Just saw an artcle about a new book by a Swedish surgeon P-O Hasselgren who has written a book about surgeon active during the american revolution. I don't know anything more about it, but it might be interesting.
It's in english
@@annagidlund5699 That could definitely be interesting! Thanks for the heads up!
Thank you for posting this. things my reenactment group try to emphasize when we do demos for the public or exactly what you said. We talked about how the spear was more or less the main weapon, and how the Scandinavian people would have very little armor if at all. So it's definitely a good thing to remind everybody not to take ourselves too seriously, and make sure that if we are trying to educate the public before we go into our battles.
I think most people who try to make mock combat “authentic” should look into tournaments or whatever sword/spear/bow competitions fit their preferred culture and era. Reenacting that kind of thing is the best of both worlds, cause you get to wield a traditional weapon and feel authentic without actually killing and/or maiming your friends!
This feels like one half of a really interesting conversation. Did someone really why re-enactments aren't 'authentic'?? Because everyone would go home dead if they did is surely the most obvious answer....
Please tell us what inspired this video? :D
I am pretty sure, you are not part of the reenactment scene? 😀 There are many in the scene who claim that "how we are doing it, it is 100% authentic!" I have to admit, I have been one of them, long ago. For a brief period, I was part of an experimental archeology team led by a history professor and we had some guys who were actual fighting instructors for army and police. We used authentic medieval weapons crafted after actual medieval weapons and were trained by real fighting instructors. We really believed "now we are doing it right!" Yet, our weapons were blunt and nobody of us feared dying....
There are also many visitors of fighting events who seriously believe that if you fight after certain fencing books (Jimmy mentions only one), you are doing it "as they did it". You have no idea how often you will explain that this is not true and how few people will believe you....
@@oldoneeye7516 I'm not, and after leaving the first comment , I went through everyone else's and was amazed! I'd definitely like to see more on this topic, because this kind of idiocy is always entertaining :D (For spectators, anyway - it sounds like it's getting tedious for the rest!)
@@paulaunger3061 👍 enjoy. But honestly, as with all "serious" sports/hobbies: with the right people it is a hell of a lot of fun. All of my injuries (except for bruises) happened when I was much younger and wilder and did not know a fraction of what I know now about reenactment fighting. Today ill grab my seax and shield and have a friendly go against a fellow reenactor. After 5 minutes serious clashing I am exhausted like hell and a lot of every day tension has evaporated!
Take care.
@@oldoneeye7516 It does sound like fun. When I started doing archery at uni, there was a reenactor club who used to practise fighting behind us while we were shooting, and I was alwas fascinated by how slow it was. But of course, they were practicing moves - and the point was to put on a show and not hurt anyone. A bit like stunt fighting, I imagine - it looks faster when it's on film, but all the moves are well rehearsed and once they're learned, you can speed it up safely. BTW, did you see the 'Hawkeye' show on Disney+? There was a priceless scene in one episode where he had to 'fight' some LARPers to get some information. Fabulous! :D
@@paulaunger3061 No, I do not have Disney+ . Id watch Jimmy every day over a Disney movie. ;)
But you are very correct with the "practicing moves". One of my most memorable training sessions were like this: both my partner and I wore only helmets and gloves (because we always do so) and no other protection gear. Our weapons were two small seaxes, pretty much knifes only. Then he would try to stap me while I would try to either block his arm (not the knife!) with my mail gloved fist or grab his wrist and drag him to me, both while at the same time trying to "cut" his inner thight with my seax in one fluent movement. Then I would try to stab him and he would defend the same way. Over and over again, until we both were standing K.O. and had very sore thights and right arms indeed.
It must have looked hillarious, a little bit like a very intimate dance i suspect, but today I am very confident to be able to defend against a real knife attack.
THANK YOU SO MUCH
I adore your channel
you have a great voice, I have a weird sleep cycle and your videos are so entertaining/educational but also good for napping
I just discovered your channel. Im excited to see whats coming next.
Yes, and the other big difference is that IRL medieval combat there were no spectators milling about [beyond the ropes or fence] laughing, cheering and stuffing their faces. No, real combat is not a fun, athletic spectator sport - it was horrible then and tragically, it still is.
Hmm. I guess the exception to that'd be tournaments & jousts, where the participants seem to have managed to maim each other pretty frequently despite its supposed 'sporty' nature and large audiences...?
Not to mention the various historical battles where the participants' families appear to have been present in wagonfuls, which totally blows my mind... Was it supposed to discourage flight or surrender, by having an immediate audience? Provide a greater incentive to fight to the death? How did they think the noncombatants were going to escape capture and horrific assault if they lost?? 😬 As Jimmy notes, it really is a completely different mindset...
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166
From the research that I’ve done, the camp followers were pretty much an *essential* part of any pre-19th/ 20th c army, that predated modern military logistics - they did virtually all the non-fighting stuff; foraging/ bartering for, buying, or even stealing extra food that wasn’t part of the standard rations- which were rarely in great supply, & they were often responsible for the cooking of said supplies.
They were often part of the medical care that was beyond the important work of the surgeon & their few assistants- they didn’t saw off limbs or the like, but probably did a kind of triage, as well as things like bandaging, after-care, & slopping out after surgery.
They served as scouts & spies, because they could often just pass themselves off as ordinary townspeople or farmers- looking to sell to the soldiers passing through. But they would face the same consequences as any military personnel if caught...
They were responsible for the laundering & repair of clothes & equipment - some armies even had cobblers & tinkers following them, as well as general food purveyors, &- of course, prostitutes.
Some also served in the military-proper; ‘Molly Pitcher’ in the 18th c watered soldiers & cannons, as did countless others- non-combatants could also load early firearms, clear canons, help pull the wounded off the field - carting supplies, be it food or armament to the front was commonly the province of young boys, as well as serving as drummer boys & the like (the early version of signal corps).
Before the official batmen of the later Early Modern/ pre-21st c armies- people employed servants to come with them, or brought family members to serve- be they women or adolescent boys who could later potentially rotate into military service. They helped guard unit encampments, & protect supplies.
Not everyone liked camp followers, however - but for every general who raised issues with them taking up supplies & being a security nightmare, another would defend camp followers for providing essential services & support- & preventing the soldiery from assaulting locals.
Over time, camp followers were discouraged, & even outright forbidden- but in essence, they remained- camp servants, cooks & laundresses- as well as anyone helping in the medical field remained right up until armies integrated logistics into their ranks & military budgets.
I’m by no means an expert, but this is what my research has established.
In early warfare, soldiers’ families **did** serve as inspiration to win, & not surrender.
There were times where we learn what happened when camp followers ended up as part of the casualties; I’m currently researching the 17th c, with a focus on the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, with the 30 Year’s & 80 Year’s wars as background for several characters- Marston Moor is just one example of the brutality that could find non-combatants.
The play, ‘Mother Courage’ is set during the 30 Year’s War, & shows just how difficult the life of a camp follower could be...
Edit: grammar
@@OcarinaSapphr- - Thank you - I hadn’t really considered the camp followers when I was making my comment - it was more about the general frivolity and ‘football fan’ nature of a 21st c. re-enactment audience. But you’re right and I can’t imagine the terror and brutality they must have faced as basically un-armed non-combatants. They certainly weren’t there for popcorn.
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Thank you for pointing this out - on reconsidering the nature of the modern re-enactments - they’re much closer to the late medieval tournaments than earlier Viking raids or the battles. I also hadn’t known about the wagonloads of family and friends. Perhaps such things were the pre-cursors to the later staged and relatively controlled jousts and melees.
I really enjoyed this. Thank you.
I’m a 35 year 3 weapon fencer, not a reenactor but my training included History Of. All of this is correct. My clubs roots were in Europe, the Hungarian/ German trained old men were familiar with older weapon types. Sword use is a continuum of better steel and better ideas through today, but back then? The baseball bat analogy is correct. It was an ugly skinhead brawl to go into battle. Ultraviolence by men retreating to pure animal. Look at the Capitol Police after 1-6 for just a tiny taste, you sure you want that? Maiming was the game, if you can’t kill them neutralize them.
Word
As a former skinhead I must object, not all skinheads are ugly (based on what my grandmother has allways told me) 😉
@@piotrmroczkowski2324 You know, Grannies are usualy very polite :)
@@piotrmroczkowski2324 Ugly brawl, not commenting on the skinheads. Though they did set a standard for ultra violence.
@@elizabethclaiborne6461 I read it word for word, english is not my first language as you can probably tell. Also being cheeky. Greetings, and salutations.
A chipped rib and a bloody nose is thankfully all I have got from reenactment fighting. My worst injuries have been from accidentally standing on a sharp rock while "marching" to the battle field in turn shoes :/
TBH probably a fairly realistic injury for a Medieval soldier to get. A depressing number of casualties in war have always been from bloody stupid things happening off the battlefield, like malaria or infected wounds.
Stumbling across this a little late, but thank you so much for this
I really like the way you say IT, its a hobby, IT does not matter if your Shield is a little bigger or smaller or that your sword is a little heavyer or lighter and so on, just have fun with IT, for me going to our groups weekly tranings is what i look forward to i love IT, its so much fun, anyway Hope everyone have a fantastic Day Out there :)
In fairness there might be some credence for i33/133 like fighting in hólmganga/dueling situations during the viking age. Although of course the lack of evidence means we can only accept said reconstructions as theoretical.
Always learning something new. Be safe!
In martial arts, we call the sets of rules you mentioned full-contact and light-contact sparring. In eskrima at least, full-contact means rattan sticks, kendo helmets with built-in neck padding, hockey gloves with the palms cut out for a better grip on our sticks, padding on our forearms and shins, padded shorts, and tunic-esque padded shirts that cover from shoulder to elbows and knees. In light-contact, we use lighter padded sticks, padded helmets with plastic face shields, and that's about it. Maybe that'd be a good way to distinguish between eastern and western reenactment combat? Fascinating video.
There's also the fact that interpreting medieval manuscripts isn't exactly straight forward. It's not like reading a modern manual. Everything people do with sword and buckler is based on someone's interpretation, and a good HEMA-instructor will be transparent about this.
That being said, sword and buckler is a fun hobby!
Great video! These are all points we bring up when teaching about Viking age combat at events. Most people think combat would have been like that show that shall not be named and everyone is running out of formation to do single combat on a big field and it kills me.
Thank you for bringing this up. I'm not a reenactor, so I've never had to think about the psychology of reenactor fighting. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has been both a soldier and reenactor about the differences they experienced between athletic fake combat and real combat.
@melissamybubbles6139 simply reanacting has rules and combat has the rule of anything that keeps you alive is permissible.
Love this video. As part of a HEMA show fighting group I'm very aware we're not being authentic even though we generally try to use the right clothing/weapons/techniques. We just make the moves more showy (which would get you killed in seconds in real combat, or beaten in the sport side of HEMA) and purposefully try the make the (fully choreographed) fights more dynamic by partially doing illogical things for actual battle. Yet the public think this is how it worked and are entertained. We might even be able to teach them some historical stuff and that's all we can ask for in the end. All have a good time, the end :)
Ps. I'm slightly distracted by the picture behind you. Couldn't figure out if it's actually you in it or not😅
Thank you so much! I started to learn HEMA sword fighting some time ago and stopped, because it felt too much like "making war" to me. Somehow I missed it, though...and well I an an old (almost 60) overweight grandmother - and sure NO viking or war hero. You video and your views put things right and I might attend the swordfighting course again. Thank you!
You are quite funny. And very matter of fact, I enjoyed this! Bravo
Biggest reason, local authorities and insurance companies disapprove of having to clean up the dead bodies left littering a battlefield nowadays. So unhelpful of them but then .............
Good for the local undertakers though.
But more seriously, much of the heavy armour is worn because INSURANCE COMPANIES insist on it for, admittedly valid, safety reasons. It's why you have to wear so many layers even for fencing, because points can break and people do get injured. My daughter used to do SCA heavy training (and in our unit you could wear the heavily padded armour BUT it all had to be hidden beneath an overtunic because it wasn't authentic looking) and even using rattan she could - did - inflict heavy damage including giving one idiot (who believed that being a teenage girl meant she couldn't hit) concussion. I'd love to know how he explained that one to his USAF bosses the following week.
While I broadly agree with your overall take, I have to disagree with your comments at 6:00 that Germanic or Danish warriors rejected heavier armor because it would have violated some cultural warrior creed. They didn't wear more protective armor because they didn't have it. They didn't have the designs or manufacturing ability to fully armor the upper body while still retaining full mobility. If you presented a suit of 15th century plate to a 9th century Dane they would immediately understand its utility adopt it.
Soldiers are enormously utilitarian, and whatever their cultural motivations, the desire to win and survive generally wins out. You would struggle to find a single example in all of human military history, where a culture or military rejected a superior weapons technology due to culture anxiety. You can find a lot of examples of societies attempting this. The 11th century Papal ban on crossbows is a good example, but that ban also failed almost immediately. People are going to use the most effective technologies they have available and technology informs tactics. This is an almost unbroken rule in human military history and arguments to the contrary tend to be coming from a romantic outlook rather than an historical one.
I am an ex ADF Infantry (Para) soldier who has just been recently diagnosed with PTSD, what our forefathers went through must have been off the chart horrific ❗️ You hit a chord with me and you seem to have a realistic grasp on history and you don’t glorify death which is why I am subscribing to your channel 👍
Absolutely Correct... as an 18th century reenactor... we have safety rules that preclude us from accurately portraying the battles... and no one dies, and injuries are kept to a minimum...
Hard truth and it is absolutely correct. They killed each other on the battlefield, we cannot even imagine the fear and the violence, the confusion. It’s very difficult to replicate even on tv… very few movies and tv show really manage to at least get close to that horrible feeling.
Well, battles were probably horrible and epic at the same time, I mean just think how many soldiers would follow their king or general into battle because they believe in some ideal, that is possible. That’s the epic part. Then, there is the horror gory part which is the actual battle. Very few movies or tv manage to get this feel, they usually exaggerate on one or another aspect, with extremely “epic honorable” scenes, or with extremely overdramatized scenes which are also not correct by a psychological point. Most of warriors were pretty convinced to fight in war despite they would know what horrible death would wait them. A man needed to go to war to be a man, that’s the idea that often is not represented well
Its a good thing you speak up. It true that it is a good thing when people don't kill and hurt eachother. It's a good thing that a history buff says that actuall war is not a plesent thing.
PS aoto correct is messing with my grammer and keeps " learning" words that I spelld wrong and I keep turning it of but it doesn't work.
Yes…I would like to keep my internal organs from escaping
I ADORE THIS!!! As a 20+ year participant in SCA and an amateur scholar of Iron Age and early Medieval history THANK YOU!!!!
Okay.. nee favorite video. You had me laughing , crying and peeing my pants as well as chanting hallelujah and youtellemjimmy.
Can we PLEASE do a horse video collab!? I am an avid haver-of- fun on the show battlefields with my horse and take it very seriously that my horse is having fun too. Spending most of my time training and preparing them for the things they will encounter there.
It’s time Jimmy, James, Welsh Viking.. it’s time to sit down with this Friesian Viking and discuss horse in early medieval times.. I have more questions than answers. Lets go
Hasn’t he done that sit down with the Signe viking yet??? tsssss 😏 she who was already a Viking when a Viking still was only a barbarian in an history book!! Looking forward to the two of you Colleb ☝🏻😎
I'd love to do a horse vid!!
Very nice video, like your content:)
I love history, but I'm so glad I didn't have to live it!
okokok like. i loved the information here but hearing the welsh in your signoff kind of just hit me in the solar plexus in a good way
Love your honesty Jimmy, and your sharp humor- 😁
Please do go home safely from your re-enactments, amazing how many skulls we have of what really happened!!