The Imperfect Mom Onscreen - Ending The “Selfless Mother” Trope
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- Опубликовано: 1 дек 2024
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There’s no one quite so judged as the Imperfect Mother. The “unnatural” mom, absent mom or ambivalent mom is still an unsettling figure who makes many instinctively uncomfortable. But a wave of recent film and TV depictions are trying to understand why some mother figures might feel overwhelmed, alienated or unsuited to the role.
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The Take, I love what you guys are doing.
When are you going to tackle the Pregnant Woman trope in horror movies?
Such as:
Women getting impregnated by aliens.
Women turning into bloated hives for alien reproduction.
A woman giving birth to a demonic child.
A woman carrying a baby for an evil cult.
Even men getting impregnated by an otherworldly seductress, sometimes a woman turning into an alien mother is portrayed as a form of empowerment.
Misogynist, sexist, rape culture, shock horror or just pushing a fear of aliens and demons?
Is it possible to make a good horror/sci-fi movie without resorting to otherworldly beings impregnating women?
Is it possible to make a story arc where the woman that was impregnated, is recovering from this mental scarring?
Thanks!
My mom was a selfless mom. She sacrificed a lot for us. But now that we're grown, she doesn't know what to do with her self and clings to us. I want to help her find herself but I'm exhausted from being her companion instead of her daughter
You're going to have to tell her....she'll appreciate you telling her instead of treating her like she's a chore that you have to take care of....plus..if you don't set boundaries you're going to resent her ...you need to change something...don't wait ...you really need to help her understand in a nice loving way. 💞💞💞💞💞...you'll feel better and trust me...she'll be glad that you told her the truth about how you feel.....it'll be ok..🎀
My mother in law is the same and it’s exhausting. She’s upset that we’re not having kids and she won’t shut up about it.
Talking to her about it will be really important. That's gonna be a good start. It will be a hard conversation if they start getting defensive, but they need an identity outside of being a parent. Helping her find hobbies and a community/friends to bond with will be very important. Those are key steps to helping her have an identity outside of being a parent.
@@suzanne1430 really happy to live in a time period where somebody posts a problem in RUclips comments and the first response is good advice about setting boundaries. 💖
@@suzanne1430 Thanks for all the support💗 You're right about boundaries, I've learned I need to work on setting them better. I got her a therapist and i think she's trying, but I've been holding a lot of resentment these past few years. How do you know when you need to compromise and when you're giving up too much of yourself for someone else, right? I guess it's just a journey
As a society, we need to remember that mothers are PEOPLE first, not machines and that to be a person is to be imperfect
My mother went out of her way to let me know she was a person, with the same wants and needs of every other human on this planet, from the earlier days of my life. This paid off dividends for me also. The minute I reached adolescence, she taught me firsthand that women enjoy anal sex, and that this means of recreation didn't stand a chance of impregnating a chick. Today, I really appreciate the fact that she and I didn't create a kid with webbed feet, and that I don't have a sibling that's also my son or daughter
@@MechaJutaro .....What? Hold up, run that back for me please.
@@MechaJutaro You have a great sense of humor lol
@@mynameisreallycool1 I'm still amazed at how many people take me seriously. Whenever I am actually kidding
@@MechaJutaro Who here is taking you seriously?
My mother kept her career and had her own friends and hobbies and I feel this made her a better mother because she got to be a well-rounded person. She set us the example that being well-rounded was more important than being a servant to the people you live with and what a lesson! I never thought she was selfish for any of that. I did not demand everything from her. Most kids just want their mothers to be happy.
This right here.
“It’s not babysitting if they’re your kids!”
Why is this so true though? Why do so many men say “I’m babysitting my kids” like, can you imagine if a mom said this???
Men are both called the pillars of their families and not expected to do any actual emotional work. It's a male double standard and culture that says men are either "above" feminine work like childcare or "don't need to bother."
I read something where she says what her husband does isn't babysitting and that he's always there when she needs him. And I'm like so he's not there until you need him? Just because you don't call it babysitting doesn't make this right.
I remember an older woman from my church asking where my young children were and than stating "oh, your husband must be babysitting". I shot back with, "no, he's parenting". She was stunned.
@@wijcik lol, that older woman probably went home, gripping her hands, offended at your out burst lamenting how disrespectful and lazy the younger generation is, talking back to their elders and making their husbands do their jobs.
@@Passions5555 girl stop 🙄 not everything needs to be met with agression
Please cover the "Dead Parent" trope, and how having a deceased parent impacts the protagonist. In many Disney movies, it seems to be a mandatory requirement to have at least ONE dead parent per movie!
Nice Disney Mom is Dead Mom. I know, almost all moms.
It was because Walt felt guilty for indirectly causing his own parents deaths.
In most shounen animes too
@@nyn7411 but it's to give a feeling of empowerment to young people, the audience fantasizes how they live *'THEIR WAY!* ☺️ they relate with the peers in their age group
Is it problematic though?
A societal ideal that can be tied in with this is the one where any caring, able bodied, married woman should WANT to be a mother.
I'm a married woman who doesn't want to have children, and whenever I tell people that, the response I get is, 'but don't you like kids??'
Here's the thing: I freakin' love kids. Not only the ones in my family, ie: nieces and nephews, little cousins, etc., but my friend's kids, or even those little moments of connection where a little kid is staring at me in public, and I smile at them and receive one in return.
I believe that kids are truly a blessing and we can learn so much about life and how to live it through the eyes of a child.
But I still choose to remain childless, and not for one or two reasons, but for an endless number of them. So when people find out that I'm happily married but childless, they assume I'm either infertile or I hate them.
The idea of the 'perfect vs imperfect mum' is so closely tied to the 'perfect vs imperfect woman', they are almost interchangeable, because we are made to believe from childhood that as females, we will be mothers (thanks so much for mentioning girls always getting dolls and behaving like 'mothers' from a young age!).
So when media challenges these old ways of thinking, and it is brought to our attention in mediums like this, I, as a childless woman who chooses to be such and is HAPPY with that choice, I am grateful 😊
Cheers, The Take 🍻
It’s ok to not want or have children. For any reason. Whether you like kids or not. It’s such a personal and private decision.
You get to be everyone's cool auntie absolutely nothing wrong with that. ❤
It's very ok not to want to be a mother, please don't let the opinion of those people upset you! I am a mother and I enjoy it, but I respect other peoples choice to be or not to be a parent and don't ask any questions on this topic.
The other people won't raise your children, you will! So they don't have the right to tell you to take some responsabilities they won't contribute to at all.
It is a very personal decision and everyone should do what they feel is the best solution for them.
P.S. And there are no perfect moms and no perfect women anyway, we just try to do our best and balance our efforts with our happiness, find the middle way, that's all.
You are childFREE. :D (If this word makes sense in English..)
I always wanted kids but I find it weird when people judge people who don't want children. Like why do you care. How does it effect you. Mind your own business.
The best thing my mother ever did for me, and she did many good things for me, was acknowledge that she was miserable as a stay-at-home parent. When I started school, she went back to her job and my father picked up the slack. My home life was better for it. I learned my mother can laugh and she can have fun and she isn't a bitch. She's a bright, energetic, fun person and I can understand why my father fell in love with her.
What this meant for me was that when I had my kids, from day one, I didn't make unreasonable sacrifices. I demanded my husband be as much an equal parent as my father had been. We have a happier marriage and happier children for it. I am a wife and a mother but I am also a friend and a person outside of those things. I have an identity and I'm happy with my life.
The saying goes "It takes a village to raise a child" so how could one mother be expected to do so?
💯
That’s an African proverb, for one thing. We have a lot of work to do about racism too.
@@redculturedash8074 It's a true African proverb.
I’m not sure you should’ve included a screenshot from Precious as the mother is that isn’t an “imperfect mom” but a horrendously abusive one. There is a difference.
I agree with that!
Also, the Perfect Mother kind of expects mothers to do everything themselves, which is a very Western and Individualistic wish. Just speaking from experience, my mom dropped me off at my grandparents when I was born to keep working, they raised me until I was five when we moved back in with mom. I'm twenty five now and I have no developmental problems. Almost every Chinese mom does this. My grandmother dropped my mom with her parents until she's seven. Grandparents would even push the parents to have more kids with the line "it's fine! We'll raise them for you!" It's not selfish or terrible to do this, it is expected, and oftentimes the community (and Chinese society in general) would look at parents funny for trying to raise toddlers just by themselves (wait so you don't have the support of the grandparents and you're having another baby? That's really brave and stupid of you. Good luck you'll need it)
Grandparents are the perfect people to raise young children. They sleep less at night, have more stability and time, know how to raise children already… i wish this was accepted more in western culture. Childcare is too damn expensive
interesting. it's like this in the Caribbean. we also have Chinese people living there (I gave some Chinese blood as well).
Since I was young my parents bring me into my grandparents every weekend and pick me up every Sunday. I don't know if it's an Asian cultural thing or if they just needed a break but I hope having time away from us meant they had a chance to rest
I mean, what if you’re LGBTQ+ or just don’t want kids? Would that end up making you “selfish, individualistic, and too westernized”?
This quote from Kate Chopin’s novel The Awakening comes to mind:
”I would give up the unessential; I would give my money; I would give my life for my children; but I wouldn’t give myself.”
🤔
Whats the difference betwen her life and herself?
@@calcaraz1794 With herself, she means her identity as a person.
My mom stayed at home with me until I was 3 when, in her words, she got sick of being around me all the time and wanted to go back to work. She told me this from the time I was quite young. It never hurt to hear that, and it gave both of us space to build our own identities and to enjoy each other even more when we were together. I was always close with my mom even through my teenage years and she was my best friend until the day she went to heaven.
I really wish people would be more understanding of this mind set. A lot of people would side eye a mother for doing this.
i am a stay at home mum, and i sometimes get tired and sick of being around my kids all the time.
i also still enjoy it enough to not want to go back to work.
both should be acknowledged as fine, and i never side eye a mum for wanting/not wanting to go back to work!
@@sarahheri7027 I think people need to stop judging Parents for their choices period
I’m glad that these conversations are being had everywhere. As a woman who has never wanted children, these stories just make me even more sure that I am making the right choice. Because growing up (I still didn’t want them but still) they romanticize it so much and they also make you feel like you HAVE to. The conversation going around about how not all women are meant to be mothers, is so helpful.
I think I mentioned how Allison in ‘I Don’t Know How She Does It’ says how there’s a double standard at the workplace where fathers are applauded for the bare minimum whereas mothers are vilified for taking time off to deal with stuff.
Fathers are overwhelmingly the family breadwinner. This has been the way of things since times immemorial, and I'm not complaining, Let's be clear though; overwhelmingly, it's impractical for these fellas to take time off. Mothers usually only cause an uproar in the office, when they start wanting to take off so much time that it hinders business, and aren't willing to meet leadership halfway. You gotta help us a bit ladies, for us to help you
@@MechaJutaro This arrangement existed "since time immemorial" till relatively recently because "they used to say it was impossible to teach women to read" (c). If men are not happy with it anymore, they are very welcome to challenge the system and support equal distribution of all responsibilities in the family unit, but for some reason this is not the overwhelming tendency.
@@renata8979 How many civilizations in human history really believed that it was impossible to teach women to read? Not a gotcha question, Ren. I'm really not aware of even one. Most women and men alike were illiterate up until very recently. Dividing up household labor is admirable, and most couples try their best to do so, I'm sure. Basic biological realities though dictate that once kids come into the picture, men are going to end up being the primary breadwinners at least periodically
@@MechaJutaro The problem is that basic biology does not always align perfectly with who is actually putting the food on the table and in my personal professional area it is overwhelmingly common for women to be the breadwinners of the family, but virtually unheard of for men in these families to be a stay-at-home parent. For some reason "fatherhood" is nowhere near is enticing for men as "motherhood" is for women.
@@renata8979 What sort of personal professional area do you work in, Ren? Folks have been trying to get more men to be stay at home dads since the 70s, and yet those numbers have not increased significantly. I'm not convinced that much more can be done on this front
After my sibs and I were grown and my parents were divorced, I asked my mom what the hardest part of her family life was. She said that she had existed only to be wife and mother and she lost herself entirely. I never forgot that. I was glad that her Act 2 of life was so fulfilling in a more personal way.
I’m so happy that ‘A Doll’s House’ was mentioned because it was such a beautiful play. Although the play could’ve been longer in its duration, it said what I needed to say.
I’ve always felt the maternal instinct since I was a very young girl. I loved my dolls and had names picked out for future babies. Now I have one son and I really don’t know if I’ll ever be ready for another child. I’m ambivalent about it to say the least. I want more kids but the reality of the responsibility hit me like a ton of bricks. Especially since I don’t get a ton of help. My husband works a lot and I don’t have stable parents or in-laws. None of my friends have kids. It can be very isolating
Don't worry, just do your best and LOVE him, that's all. The Harvard study found out that the biggest predictor of your happiness and fulfillment overall in life is, basically, love. Enjoy the time with your son (he will grow up so fast...), make some new friends among the other moms in the childcare or at the playground, don't put too much pressure on yourself to have other children or be the "perfect" mom, just love your kid AND yourself, relax and find the joy in your new life, enjoy the unconditional love you get from your son.
Wish you all the best! xo xo
Are you me? Lol that’s almost my exact story. I love my son with everything in me but it’s very exhausting.
You are not obligated to anyone or anything for having kids. It's your life and only you make it's decision. There is nothing wrong in not wanting kids especially if you don't feel ready. Doesn't make you a bad mom of your one son
@@irishcajun85 nice to know someone else is in the same boat xx
@@clairewillow6475 I’m pregnant again (surprise!) and my husband works out-of-state so other than occasionally visiting my mom, it’s just me. It’s so taboo to talk about with folks because for some reason being a mom is supposed to override your exhaustion and depression and replace it with rainbows, happiness, and boundless energy for baking cookies. My son has definitely given me an new perspective in my life and genuinely saved me in several aspects (I was a binge drinker and haven’t drank in 1.5 years) but girl my back hurts and I’m tired 😴
A huge pet peeve of mine is wives being called by their husbands' names. "Mrs. John Smith." It's like saying only his identity is important.
This
This mostly tends to happen in Anglophone/English descent countries like the US, Canada, Australia, etc… Because historically in Britain women were their husband’s household property. While in other cultures there’s different naming systems, even for children, it was either a community name, religious, ethnic or filial.
@@antoniacapellaborges6566
Well it needs to stop, women aren't property anymore. Same with fathers, "giving" their daughters away in marriage.
@@sophieruby9135 aah…I don’t know about the giving away part. You can only change yourself, not others wants. There’s many Women who’re fond of this concept so….You can only really start with yourself 🤷🏽♀️
@@antoniacapellaborges6566
We need to get rid of any ritual that implies women are properly.
Still holding out for the parental child, the child (usually a daughter) who has to take charge of her family in the absence of a parental figure.
Katara comes to mind.
Fiona Gallagher
this is what happened to me (to some degree), and it was not fun :(
Every woman doesn't need to be a mother. I'm an aunt. My sister who works full-time appreciates having me as back-up. I love my niece and nephews. This needs to be shown more in media. Doing what's right for you. 😊
When I grew upto be an imperfect woman did I finally understand my mother in her imperfections and I noticed how hard she has tried especially in her later life. 🖤💜
Exactly. When we get to understand how hard is to be a mother and keep your identity as a person, we also heal a bit. It’s the empathy what’s makes us understand they’re flawed humans who are also going through a lot.
@@RedPillCosby-012 fact is, there are a lot more shit father by LARGE than shit mothers. Mothers sacrifice themselves completely for children while men abandon them like it’s nothing. Go and take your red pill in your mother’s basements.
Sometimes the best mom is the one that realized that she's not qualified to be one, so she doesn't have kids
You have to have kids to be a mom.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
@@sophieruby9135 you are not very bright, aren't you?
Is that a mom, though?
Finally, someone who understands. Im still in school but I already made up my mind of not wanting kids. Anytime I tell people that they just say I’ll grow out of it. But I can’t. This isn’t a phase. I love kids but I don’t want to have them.
Don’t let anyone tell you what you will want to do. They can’t do that.
When the child grows up and has problems, whose to blame? Mum! Even if dad was abusive and often absent, it"s still Mum's fault.
in older media it was like moms were portrayed as a set of services for the household.
Please do the "Stay at Home Dad" trope, and how people might judge them for not being the "breadwinner".
Yes that would be interesting!
Sorry, man can't be victims.
Lol. Stay at Home Dads are just another area where men are taking over what few spaces women have left
But more often than not, they get complimented just for doing what mothers have always been doing without a thank you. Is not comparable.
He's usually seen as a loser
Moral of the story, parenting is hard, if you don't want to do it than don't have kids. An by God pick the right person to have them with if you do
I had a son in my 40s. I was pretty unsure in my 30s. I had a great life that involved traveling and working a lot. I met a great guy and we decided to have a child or adopt. Now he is ten, and I made sure my husband helped a lot. I went back to college, began traveling on my own and my husband and son know when “mom” needs her time alone. I hope my son learns to give his wife space…I am Latina. Yes, I love my family, like to cook, like to do things around the house, etc. But my study, leisure, and reading time is not to be disrupted. My husband is German so that is a plus. I sigh when I see society pressuring women so much.
This is why the older I get, the less I want kids…
Same. I used to think having a big family (4-5 kids) would be so much fun. Now, I only want 2 max.
@@yourlittlesecret7575 I'm leaning towards none. My soon-to-be brother and sister-in-law just announced that they are having their second child and my fiance and I talked about it and were like, "I think we're good for now, we'll just be a fun aunt and uncle." :)
As a daughter of a woman who was emotionally unavailable, even dare I say neglectful for most of my formative years due to mounting mental health issues and alcoholism, I have a very conflicted relationship with motherhood. Mainly that I fear I will realize I wanted to be a mom for selfish reasons and I will think about my kids as burdens, and will be a bad mom for them. I guess I don't even strive for 'perfect' just 'good enough'.
I feel so relived when I see imperfect monthers in media. I grew up knowing at around age 6 that I didn't want to be a mother. Friends, family, and stangers alike all questioned me, or even more often told me I was sure to change my mind as I got older. People told me It was rude to tell mothers that I would be miserable if I had kids. I felt so frustrated that nobody belied me that I would have nightmares about getting married and being forced into the conventional idea of what makes a woman happy.
As an adult now, people still tell me they think my personality is so suited to motherhood that it's a shame. Drives me crazy!
So I always really gravitate to stories of women being unhappy in the role. I can relate to them living in one of my worst nightmare
Archer: You know when I was a kid I used to pretend you weren't my mother.
Malory: Me too.
I just had my first child 6 days ago so this feels very timely… I’m literally in tears watching this.
My late mother was never perfect when I grew up and that's what I loved about her. I miss her already.
Meryl streep transformed what little was on the page in Kramer vs Kramer Into a role that had such depth and in the end is the most profound part of the film. This wouldn’t have been achieved if meryl hadn’t played that role
Really enjoying this content, these conversations about women are super important because a lot of times what’s noticed is the “explosion” or the break down that a women has. When all this time she’s been crying out for help. The overcompensation is constantly seen but accepted thinking that moms have to be/do everything. Also Take this Waltz is one of my favorite movies! Flawed women need to be seen!
I remember reading a book called ‘The Couple Next Door’ which was a beautiful story on an imperfect mother.
Reminds me of that one Reddit confession of a woman admitting that she was so burnt out looking after her extremely severely disabled son and was putting him away into a care facility and she got all kinds of backlash. There's this really ridiculous expectation that when you're the mother of a severely disabled child, you have to be this angelic martyr who changed forever in all these amazing and humbling ways and woe betide any who admit they wish they'd aborted or don't love the child after years of caring with nothing to show for it.
I heard that story. It was sad, because her family were pissed at her and making her life miserable. But this want had other children and she felt she couldn't be the best mom to them while caring full time for a severally disabled child. She got no understanding from those around her.
A care facility can actually help the child by giving them they best and more professional care they need for that time, certainly more than what one tired and burnt out mother can give. As long as it's a good facility and that she isn't abandoning the kid by leaving him and never coming back to pick him up or see him, I don't see an issue.
Also, I find it funny that, often times, they people around you who judge and bully you for things like this are the same people will wouldn't ever offer you help with the child and will always turn you down when you ask for their assistance, and they're also the same people who don't believe in free healthcare or other forms of assistance from the government.
One reason I reject motherhood is because I don’t want my entire identity to be a mother.
I found strange when women are afrait to belong to a child and lose their identity with one, but don't care to lost their identity with a man.
Is the problem that we expect selflessness from mothers, or that we expect selflessness *only* from mothers? Expecting complete selflessness from someone with respect to a person they foisted life upon without consent is pretty reasonable. It's just unreasonable to expect it from one of the people who forced a life into existence instead of both.
This is the kind of episode you do that is important. These double standards need to be called out and criticized at every opportunity.
It's a double edged sword - If a mom tries to find herself, she's labeled as selfish. If a mom tries to be "selfless" and her world is revolved around her family, when she finally snaps, she's blamed for not doing something about it. I became a mom young at 19, and in my 20s, I tried to enjoy myself, make friends, go out (I didn't want to have a mid-life crisis wishing I did all those things when I was younger) and I got constant shit for it, from my own mom and (ironically) from my child's deadbeat dad. Now I'm almost 30, playing housewife, and I get depressed all the time because my entire life is my family. When I was single with one child, I worked, provided for us, took care of my daughter 100%, and when I found time for myself, was looked at as "neglectful". Now that I don't work and spend every waking moment taking care of my 2 kids, I feel like a worst mother than I was before.
I don’t excuse selfish mothers or fathers. All parents have the responsibility to not be deadbeats, or cruel… Period. Your kids are your responsibility.
But the Lost Daughter is just an examination of this reality, not the glorification of the behavior that the conservative press is fear-mongering about.
I’ve never seen the appeal of having children, and am grateful we now live in a society that doesn’t expect all women to have them!
I keep thinking of the non-fictional "The Mommy Myth" by Susan Douglas and Meredith Michaels and fictional "Goodnight Nobody" by Jennifer Weiner all coming out in the same time and dealt with mom shaming and how our country really leaves moms at sea.
That's true, Mum Shaming seems to be very prevalent in fiction, even more so than Dad shaming.
A friend do mine asked me which series was my favourite family sitcom. and I said "Malcolm in the middle" as it was the only one that depicted issues I can relate to like having to cut coupons to have enough food. He said he really hated that series because he thought Louise was a terrible mom always yelling and punishing her children. And that Marge from "The Simpsons" was the ideal woman. I wonder if he saw the same show I did.
Yeah, I'm not surprised when men think Lois from Malcolm in the Middle is a horrid mom for yelling at her sons and ordering them around. A lot of men don't like that in a mother, but would be fine with it in a father. Sexist double standard.
@@sophieruby9135 Marge from the Simpsons frustrated me.
@@Passions5555
Women need to be more assertive. If a man can't handle that in a woman, don't marry him.
I'm gonna be a mother in 8 months and my biggest fear is not being perfect..I've never really wanted children but I am embracing this by trying to accept myself the way I am.. I really appreciate this take!
I can't help but wonder if the idea of the "perfect" mother is also one believed by children. Parents are almost always perfect and right in young children's eyes. So really, it doesn't matter if mothers are perfect or imperfect, because their children will see them as perfect anyways, at least until they become teenagers and know better.
I never heard my parents express one single time that they had flaws, didn't know what they were doing, or had made a mistake. Its like their generation was taught that you have to pretend like you're the perfect superior human being to your child or you'll ruin them.
The problem I have with a lot of these movies is young children being portrayed as loud, difficult and obnoxious, either because "that is how real children are" (which is "problematic" because children are not a homogenous group) or in response to a stress, in turn created by sensing their parents distress, keeping up the vicious cycle. When my parents were in distress and cross, I did not throw tantrums, yell or sing or throw toys around to get their attention, I was terrified and did not know how to hide far away enough from all the tension.
Also, it's funny, because on one hand, when moms or other people who take care of children complain about difficult children, people say, "Oh well that's just how kids are. You just have to learn to deal with it." But on the other hand, you know they're the same kind of people who give moms dirty looks if their kids are crying loudly or running around in public with no ounce of sympathy for the mom when she's clearly trying to get them to calm down.
@@mynameisreallycool1 to be honest, in my opinion children being difficult because it is the default is kind of a trope in itself. It had been previously used mostly for comic relief, but now there is a new, serious angle to this, but the angle is still strictly from an adult prospective, it is about how adults feel, how they suffer. As I’ve mentioned, I have never been that movie child, but I do have a very vivid memory of being around 5 or 6, alone at home with my very tired and pretty unhappy (at that time in our lives) mother, who was doing housework. For some reason I really wanted her to play with me, but she couldn’t just drop everything and do so and even at that age I knew that it wasn’t because she was actively choosing household drudgery over me, but still it made me overwhelmingly miserable. No matter how much quality time we have spent and are still spending ever since, I do have issues as an adult of being not particularly important to anyone, of people always having something better to do then spending time with or on me and I can trace these feelings all the way back to this relatively small episode.
@@renata8979 I don't know about that. Rambunctious and loud kids have been around long before movies and TV shows were around. That's why the trope exists in the first place. Every kid is just different though, all with their own flaws and challenges for the parents, teachers, and themselves to have to deal with, and I think the issue is that some movies and TV shows act like all kids are like this (or that people from the younger generation are all like that) or that they act this way all the time. I mean, it's hugely exaggerated, when in reality, if you took a random group of kids who are the same age, most of the kids would act pretty normal while only two or three kids will cause real trouble. A lot of it has to do with their own individual personality and also the way they were raised.
I'm sorry that you felt that way as a child and that it's affected you as an adult. I just want you to know that you are in fact important to some of the people around you. I can relate to that feeling a lot too. I have to remind myself that my friends or family members do want to be around me, even if I had a few moments in my life where some people who I knew as a child were too busy or just didn't like me.
I think that everyone has someone out there who cares about them, unless they're a legitimately horrible person. It seems your mom cares about you a lot, from what I've read.
@@mynameisreallycool1 Thank you for the kind words) Yes, both my parents care about me deeply and I love them very much, however, I just wanted to tell this story as an example of small children having their own complicated feelings and emotions that may haunt them all their life. One issue I have with "imperfect mothers" trope is that whatever a mother does to make herself feel better (understandably so) is automatically assumed to be the best option for the child, because of the popular mantra "happy mother = happy child". I just don't agree it is that easy. Children are perfectly capable of perceiving adult's emotional distress, especially, a parent's, but they don't have the same mental capacity to process it in an "adult" way, be it acting out or trying to blend with the wall. I just feel like children deserve more sympathy than all these movies are offering them, especially because it is not an annoying random person who had moved in next door, this is the person you have chosen to bring into your world. Let's be honest, there is no such thing as having a child for the child's sake, everyone, who are having children willingly, are doing it for themselves, to make themselves feel better. That particular selfishness is usually glossed over in the movies.
@@renata8979 I agree with that 100%. I feel like sometimes movies and even RUclips channels like The Take takes it too far and often seem to enable mothers for selfish or lazy behavior, claiming it makes them "better parents" in the end. Not that being a flawed parent makes you a bad person or means you're abusive, but they have this weird message of "Being a mom is hard because they're expected to do things for their child." That they most likely chose to have. Of course they're expected to take care of their kids and treat them like human beings. They have a responsibility. It's especially annoying when they act like it's "so hard to be a mom nowadays because of these expectations" when we're actually less judgemental of moms than we ever were before. To me, it's just another way of saying, "It's so hard to be a mom because now we can't get away with beating children anymore (even though they can (unless it goes too far) and many parents today still do it) or abandon my kids constantly so I can go have fun."
There just needs to be a balance. Obviously, moms are human and deserve a break sometimes to clear their head, but there's a difference between taking a few hours off to let someone else watch you versus completely leaving your child behind for months (unless it's for something important).
This helped me put into words, what I couldnt before. I dont feel that my motherhood is that hard, but I struggle with the expectation of selfsacrifice and selflessness.
My Mom let me known young she hated motherhood. Society forced her. I paid the price for that resentment of existence
She still shouldn't have taken that out on you. I am sympathetic toward mothers for the unrealistic crap they endure right up until they deliberately take it out on their kids as if they are the problem, when they never asked to be born.
Your mother reminds me of my paternal grandmother. She is awful to her children, particularly my father, long after they’ve left her house. My heart goes out to you.
I want to meet people who think Don Draper in ‘Mad Men’ wasn’t a terrible parent 😂
It’s not that people thinks he’s a good one, the thing is Betty gets a lot of hate and resentment and with Don the reaction is always silent. We don’t even expect better things from him, but we do expect a lot from Betty… even if she had a terribly violent childhood too.
@@genfuentes3582 I was just kidding but thank you for sharing nonetheless.
Despite what people say about Betty, I think she truly wanted what she thought was best for her children. Don couldn't give a rats ass.
He is my sisters dream men. She is also dating an abuser and has two kids with him. So yes when your mentally ill you think he’s amazing.
‘The Lost Daughter’ was a beautiful movie but ‘Tribhanga’ and ‘Unishe April’ were beautiful precursors to the film. Don’t get me wrong: I love all the three films.
I felt like I was one of the only Mad Men fans who loved Betty Draper. I'm so glad you guys like talking about her as much as I do
Your not alone, I like her because of her complexity but that's also why I hate her too
Disney is one of the MAIN AT FAULT for this...I remember that there was a scene jn Descendants (2015) with the villains trying to make "cookies" and the daughter of Mulan came along, cried because they never experienced their mother baking cookies for them🤡 WHAT THE HECK? My mom was never the kind of mom to cook, but she was a careerwoman who put her heart and soul into her beliefs. I always admired my mom and still do. Never felt neglected, but actually proud. But Disney wants to sell us a stereotypical kind of mom. The ones who cook, can't hold a job because she misses her children (Good Luck Charlie), and she always is a stay at home mom😬 It's sickening because these portrayals of moms create unrealistic expectations for children, and put a huge amount of pressure on working moms and imperfect moms.😬
Note: Nothing against the stay at home and selfless mom, but the entertainment world needs more representation of all types of moms out there.
I love how they made the child of Mulan, the one Disney female character who is a warrior have this reaction. Even though in her own movie Mulan turned down a lucrative high position in the emperor's royal court because she wanted to return home to be with her family. Mulan in her own movie was a warrior AND all about her family. The implication that being a warrior chick made Mulan too unfeminine, too ambitious, too busy, or worse of all made her feel baking was too beneath her to do something caring and nurturing for her own child is such a gross disservice to Mulan's character. I never liked Disney descendants and I like it even less now. And also fuck that narrative, and fuck Disney for perpetuating it.
This made me realize something about my mother. She was not perfect but as I grew up I would have hated her if she was.
Not finished with the video yet, but I can't stop thinking about Reese Witherspoon's performance. I haven't seen that film yet, and I'll have to go back and check what the title is (I had to type this out first though because I know I might forget), but the "I'm not perfect, I'm not!" "YES YOU ARE!!!" scene is just... bone chilling.
I've never seen her portray a character like that before, and I am always amazed by her sheer range. Especially because her character's appearance looks so put together; you never expect a mother to snap like that, which makes me think of how abusive mothers are seen as worse than abusive fathers, whereas in reality, they are just as awful.
The whole point is that abusive fathers, or even just men who aren't exactly "father of the year" per se, shouldn't be given a pass for the same behavior that their female counterparts are (rightfully) held accountable for. That's where the unfair double standard is. (Which is why the inclusion of that scene is so poignant, as it illustrates very clearly the message of the video as a whole.)
I haven't seen the show either, but it is not the first time this clip is used and I agree that it does stay with you. To me it's how "unsophisticated" it is - in movies or TV people often make even raw emotions look somewhat "good" and "graceful" and Reese Witherspoon in this clip is just shrieking, that is exactly what it sounds like in real life when someone snaps.
Claire Danes in "Homeland" gave the best portrayal of postpartum depression I've seen
:sigh: it is such a catch-22, when it comes to the selfless vs "selfish" mom, basically if the mom puts her kids first, somehow that'll lead the kids to develop a sense of entitlement in life, whereas if the "selfish" mom trying to prevent that/teach them agency, by showing it(that they're own person before a parent) instead ironically the kids might conclude that their opinions &feelings will always be invalidated, also I just want to tap on, how historically until post 19th century, not all kids were able to survive to make it into their teens,(most babies had to be a year old or lived to be 3, before the parents could gave them names) so by portraying the mom as selfless it's like a straight-up over complication, but sadly that doesn't change that motherhood is still held hostage by misogyny that somehow it's on all woman that they make babies all by themselves,
Drew Barrymore in “riding in cars with boys” is my favorite example of the imperfection mom
My mother likes to tell people she stopped working because of her kids, but for a lot of what remember it had been just me and my sister looking out for each other (or at the grandparents') while my mother was out at the mall or something. To this day she says she still can't work because she needs to take care of our (healthy) dog and my (25yo heathy) sister, so me (and two ex husbands) support her financially. I'm not saying she never took care of us, but she has always used us as an excuse as to why she couldn't fend for herself and needed to be supported financially by third parties, meanwhile trying to control every aspect of our lives.
This is yet another example of the world being raised in misogyny. If we weren't taught to hate women, and women weren't taught to internalise that hatred, we wouldn't have issues like this at all.
We inherited the mistrust/hatred of allowing women to be, live, do, or have anything like men. The problem we recognize today but never solved.
my mother went back to work when I was very young - in the early 70's when women didn't do that, She didn't have to financially. My Dad could have easily provided for us all. Day care was not really a thing then - she figured it all out herself with my grandmas and a dayhome (which didn't have that name then but that's what it was). I have always been very happy that she made those choices because my mom would not have been happy if she did not have some outside work - she needed the challenge and accomplishment that. Had she stayed at home, she would have been miserable and her children would have felt that and would have born the brunt of it. I had a very good childhood - I'm glad my mother had a career.
This is why I say there's no such thing as an imperfect or perfect mom. Just be there and take care of your children, because they need love like everyone else.
Dakota Johnson in ‘The Lost Daughter’ is such a brilliant performance! Good for her 👏🏽
if there is enough time, &can find more references, you mind covering the trope The Perfect Child, how if they're not portrayed as the protagonist's obstacle, they're the buzz kill, or at most if/when they're the antagonist they come off as hypocritical,
Another great video, thank you! Please do a video about women who choose not to have children. I feel like the child free woman is villainized in society since motherhood is so tied to womanhood.
Are there a lot of fictional examples of characters that have had the opportunity and choose not to?
@@melodyclark1944 Christina Yang from Grey’s Anatomy is a perfect example! She was focused on her (brilliant) career, knew she didn’t want kids, and it ultimately broke up her relationship with a guy who did want kids.
As a child it's actually so hard to see your mother as a person first if she seemingly only exists for you. Seeing my mother starting to write while being a housewife actually made me understand that she has desires of her own.
The way this trope is presented is income table to me. Why are imperfect mothers and a parent abandoning their child in the same category?
in TV, I especially love the selfish mother trope. The two that come to mind most often is Ellis Grey (Grey's Anatomy) and Cora Mills (Once Upon a Time). The lengths they go to to hold onto their power and in turn abuse their kids for the sake of that power. It's almost a romanticism of the trope as I had a mother who held so little power and I constantly wished she fought for herself more. She's said to me that she wishes she had made a name for herself, spent more time doing work; yet commented how she'll never make as much as a man and make more of a difference in the world. I took that as she resented having kids and that I held her back. Upon further reflection (and therapy) I realize that's not what she might have meant, but she continues to be a woman stuck, not knowing what to do with her life, jobless and still married even at the age of 56, heavily depending on the security of my father. I love Mt mother dearly, however, I fear I might pity her more than I love her.
The babadodook’s portrayal of motherhood made for such an effective horror movie.
I think the imperfect mom trope is more of a problem with how the audience or the writer portrays the trope than the actual trope, i love the imperfect mom trope cuz i have an imperfect mom, and ill argue that i love her more than i would ever love a “perfect mom”.
What about the show Desperate Housewives? I think there are some great examples on how challenging being a mom can be and how sometimes it becomes too much to handle (i. e. when Bree abandoned her son because she couldn't keep up with him anymore or when Lynette drove far away because she felt she was having a burnout, just to name a few)
Please make a Catwoman video, including an analysis of her different portrayals, in time for the release of The Batman with Zoe Kravitz. 🥺
Yes. I have recently been thinking about cat woman and her daughters lol. I would love this
And let's not forget about the dating Catwoman trope
If a father abandons his children, or he doesn't want them to be around him or is mean to them, or neglects them, he's a bad father, PERIOD.
Are we excusing women when they do the same thing?
I pushed hard for the “hooker with a heart of gold” trope. You made an analysis on “Pretty Woman” not long after. So, it was close enough. My new recommendation is for the movie “Naked.” I would love to see The Take’s take on this rough movie.
I _really_ like and appreciate your channel. The best, non-vitriolic yet strong social critiquing on the internet. No self-righteousness. No f-words. But no backing down. Like a lot of people prepping for the coming AI apocalypse, I'm purging the junk and planning to stick with just a few YT channels. The Take absolutely is one of them.
I recommend reading Marian Keyes "the Woman who Stole My Life"
After the main character recovers from illness everyone gushes over the husband who stepped up and took on her chores....
Felt „He is better off without me.“ It is so difficult to reach your own expectations of motherhood.
I want to see an analyze of the trope "Dumb Dad". Don't forget Homer Simpson!
The, "dumb dad" trope is basically a subversion of the, "father knows best" trope.
Honestly just the dad from almost every adult cartoon that centers around a family and it would apply. We always have the lazy and clueless dad and the naggy mom who always has to be the voice of reason.
@@mynameisreallycool1 Dumb Dad is in kid cartoon too. Disney also have a some dumb dads (Goofy, George Darling, Morris, Sultan, King Fergus, Augustin Madrigal).
And I know Andy Anderson from show The Life with Lui.
I want to share MY thinking about trope Dumb Dad. Where I can send my letter you?
What I like in trope "dumb dad", that it tell daring and revolution idea: "Fathers don't know best".
@@DawnSkyStudios
Amen! It was a rebellion against patriarchal attitudes. That's why people like Gavin McGinnes complain about it. He wants women back in the kitchen.
I am so happy at this video. I remember I commented a month ago asking if you could make a video on flawed motherhood. And you made one!
I love how you post frequently . ❤️
This was such a beautiful video as always!
18:26 Cruz playing an "almost 40" in this movie is the best acting performance I've seen from her.
That's one of the reasons why I'm so happy to be chilldfree.
I so related this. I love my kids but NGL is suffocating and non stop.
In my country we read doll’s house in highschool it was an interesting book because it exposed us to various themes
Please make a video about the “single father” trope
I think the taboo is the lack of motherly love which is fine, but abandoning your children? That's terrible, whatever your gender is
I dunno if you’ve covered it but I’d love an analysis of Swallow starring Haley Bennett. My wife and I don’t want to be parents so seeing her utter elation at the ending was a personal joy and so I want it to get more attention.
Thank you so so much for this video!
I love how y'all ended that
I teared up for a second
My mom can be selfish and harshes thing she says and i still use as a sting to her when she hits me "You only had me because dad wanted me and Not you after i was born" used to hurt and feel selfish but not its not plus she proves my point by insulting me as if im listening to an over grown highschooler and shes the mom who envies her daughter for the other choices she makes than her and has a good career path that isnt good unlike hers . Breakig the cycle by being childfree and yes chose this decision at 13 after learning the process and requirments of being parents though school . Hell no not joining the cult of parenthood That shit is destructive and selfish , being that hot wealthy aunt who has the career i want , fab youthful look and abundance of joy is better than changing diapers or spending for an ungreatful kid
The Take, I love what you guys are doing. Could you please do a video on this topic?
The Pregnant Woman trope in horror movies, such as:
Women getting impregnated by aliens.
Women turning into bloated hives for alien reproduction.
A woman giving birth to a demonic child.
A woman carrying a baby for an evil cult.
Even men getting impregnated by an otherworldly seductress.
Misogynist, sexist, rape culture, shock value or just pushing a fear of aliens and demons?
Is it possible to make a good horror/sci-fi movie without resorting to otherworldly beings impregnating women?
Is it possible to make a story arc where the woman that was impregnated, is recovering from this mental scarring?
I was subconsciously terrified of pregnancy because of the alien scene and similar movies, and had no idea that’s what it was until I talked about the scene with somebody else that had that fear.
@@irishcajun85 I have a question.
Is it empowering to have a betrayed, neglected woman turning into an alien mother, only to kill those who wronged her? How would you write her character in a horror/sci-fi movie?
Sometimes this could work, like Starcraft's Sarah Kerrigan.
@@StrikerVaskin I guess it could be empowering in the same way movies continually use a woman’s sexual assault as her ‘drive’ for vengeance, but they never follow-up with how her life is going to be after that trauma, just leaving us to assume a woman getting vengeance on her assailant is gonna erase her assault or have her cope with killing a person. It’s proven that in *most* cases where a person has to kill someone else, regardless of circumstances, it completely changes them. It’s why so many troops have PTSD after killing a combatant, even if that combatant posed a direct risk on their life.
To me it sets up the parallel of a woman that has been assaulted (as so many of us have been, including myself) spending her life doing everything out of trauma if she can’t literally murder her assailant. Like that’s the closing chapter to that part of her life.
The parallels with forced pregnancy with an alien/monster strongly mirrors how a lot of women feel when they find out they’re pregnant after a SA, especially in areas where we are losing the ability to terminate the pregnancy because it’s ‘God’s will’ (science/species will in the movies). I think unless a movie is prepared to deal with the intricacies of the rest of trauma that comes along with with these assaults it’s a lower blow.
In ‘Prometheus’, Dave drugs Elizabeth’s drink and they have sex. She (previously infertile) finds out she’s in the later stage of pregnancy. She removes the alien with the self-surgery container. Towards the end, she stops the Engineer by shoving an ovipositor (egg layer) of her now-grown alien baby down his throat, in massive symbolism of her using the thing that almost killed her as her momentary strength (the ‘what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger’ trope) and also a hint of ‘everything happens for a reason’.
I don’t think I’d personally write this trope into a story, but if I did, it would be in a manner that intimated her experience and trauma while deconstructing the myth that she has to physically demise her assailant, as so many children and women can’t. I watched my uncle suffer for almost a year in pain from cancer that morphine couldn’t touch once it hit his brain. None of that took away what he did, just made me glad he couldn’t touch another kid. Watching him stand accused before the world by me and the literal *dozens of children* he raped while having unbridled access to us by people who knew he was a child molester, and go to prison, would have been justice.
I hope that wasn’t too long of a rant, lol.
@@irishcajun85 Not at all, thank you for the insight!
I'm sorry to hear about your troubling experiences regarding your uncle.
I hope that you are feeling better now, I wish you all the best in your future endeavours.
As a single dad raising a daughter… pretty much the whole way even when I wasn’t single, I resonate with this one. I was both supposed to be provider 40 hour weeks and full time dad
-waited the whole time just to be a stay at home dad.
Moral of the story: not every woman is cut out to be a mom so don't pressure them to have kids.
Uncles/Aunts and Grandparents also provided interesting themes for videos
I always hated when mothers would say they "sacrificed" themselves too. Like, do you want to die? Are you purposely trying to leave your kids to be a "savior" and for what? Ego?
And it confuses me bc like aren't you also teaching your child to share? Like sharing and sacrifice are not the same concept.
There's this commercial out there (can't remember for what), but the mother comes home from picking up her child from babysitting (i assume) but she's hungry and tired from work and grabs the only thing in the fridge, which is milk, and forgot the the childs is there. She just gives him the whole glass. Like there was plenty for two. Again, do you want to die (maybe), but worst, do you want your child to deal with your hangry? Lol like i hate that commercial so much bc it perpetuates the idea of the perfect mother being not sacrificial but a martyr 😑
Such an important topic. I hope that the sentiment soon trickles into Western society as a whole