"Peace! Peace. I want Peace! A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France, a little piece of Portugal and Austria per chance..."-Mel Brooks, "To Be or Not to Be" (1983)
If any show demands a long discussion after each episode - it is "Babylon 5". I love hearing you guys say "This is the BEST episode so far! 10 out of 10!" I'm confident I'll hear that again.
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Buckle up buttercup! Then remaining episodes in the season will just friggin’ blow your mind! The rollercoaster just crested the first hill…..the next drop is insane. 🎢
G'Kar: "Let me pass on to you the one thing I've learned about this place. No one here is exactly what he appears. Not Mollari, not Delenn, not Sinclair... and not me." That's why Babylon 5 is so good to be rewatched. You can see which led to what and what was hinted to where and when. You might have mentioned it in the uncut version, but what you seem to have missed something during the PSI Corps commercial, that little flash? Before you start the next episode, you could rewatch the scene and stop the video to see what it was. I'd love to see your reaction about what that little flash is. Just let me say that much, it's not an accident or a mistake or a flaw in the tape. About what you said what the remake today would need to have, remember, G'kar had human women in his quarters.
Blake 7, and Twin Peaks say high. I know Blake 7 wasn't an American produced show, but it was a known property for fans of sci-fi. And it's decades before B5. While Twin Peaks (certainly season 1, season two is a mess), is a bit of everything, it's defiantly serialized and the shows first season was planned out.
I think this is a pretty underrated episode. Seeing our beloved characters from the outside, as if we're people living on one of the colonies watching the news and seeing all of them for the first time is actually kinda cool. It's pretty significant episode for what's to come as well. Showing how ISN is, showing the political trembles on Earth, pretty big. Also, the Corps is mother, the Corps is father.
I don't know if you guys caught it or not but when Torqueman was interviewing Senator Quantrell she mentioned former Senator Hidoshi, that was the senator that Sinclair always dealt with.
I love your format on tackling this show. Review, watch, discuss, theorize. It shows in your reactions how much this show more than just a simply journey. It's an epic in literary terms. It's so enjoyable to see a group watch this for the first time and have these discussions. And without giving spoilers, I can't wait for you all to get through the rest of the seasons. And then I urge you to go back and re-watch it again. Pick up on all the stuff you missed the first time. I watch this show almost yearly. And still pick up on tiny details to this day.
Love this episode too, just a unique way to tell a story. And say what you will about Londo, but he is a master politician and he knows how to play to the media.
Totally agreed with you guys, 10/10. You are true fans, and you are good at reading between the lines. You're going to have an incredible ride with the rest of this series. This episode is a bit of a litmus test and you passed with flying colors. Babylon 5 is only just beginning and you guys are going to love it. First season and a half are build-up. This episode was meant as a sort of catch-up show for those who were new to it, before Babylon 5's story really takes off. It is going to take off, it's taking off now, and you guys are on board, catching the stuff you need to catch, and you will enjoy it so much. For those who are not new to the series, it is great to see new fans being forged.
"B5 shouldn't be used as a staging ground" - Earth literally did that exact thing a couple of episodes back in GROPOS EDIT: 49:00 my first year at University I joined the RPG (aka geek) society and one of the first socials ended up with the usual "Kirk vs Picard" conversation...the dagger eyes I got when I said I preferred Sheridan could've killed a small town :D Whilst it's not going to happen (someone else is holding on to the IP) but I'd much rather see a reboot of B5's spin-off Crusade as the show got managed into cancellation by TNT before it got going. The technology is now there to do the kind of virtual sets the show tried to do.
Yeah , this is a good episode , and based on this discusdion i am looking forward to your reaction of the season 2 ending for sure 🤩 After all those years Babylon 5 is still my favourite TV-series. The Babylon5 universe is the only tv series which is exhibited in my bookshelf in my living room.
20:20 - of course they would have offices in schools and hospitals. The schools let them get access to new telepaths early, and hospitals allow the Psi-Corps to do brain scans (and help heal injured telepaths when their non-telepath classmates attack them).
Lol the convo at the end, yes us B5 fans have always been on the ass-end of sci-fi fandoms (even Big Bang joked on us) but yall were so right - we got top tier cast that can't be replaced (except by Gary Oldman I guess 😂), and episodes like this that bring up so much thought and discussion. Personally, I haven't ever seen any gatekeeping from this fandom, most of us I think have just gotten used to being looked down on but because we all know how good the show is, doesn't bother us much. I will admit to doing the odd eye-roll to Star Wars fandom though, and I'm glad that there's a rising opinion that Star Wars is a fantasy and not even Sci-fi because I whole heartedly agree - doesn't belong in the same convo as B5/ST/DS9 etc
Minbari don't have a free press. Delenn had no idea what she was getting herself into when she agreed to meet with ISN. Minbari are told only what they need to know, and nothing more. It's good we see more and more in these episodes that she isn't exactly being accepted by either humans or Minbari. It's only our main cast of humans, and Lennier that seem to accept her change. Everyone else on both sides is kind of treating her like an insult. Londo and G'Kar are much better at dealing with the press, and trying to manipulate it for their own ends. And of course Kosh knows better than to let anyone in the media try and interview him. Those Vorlons are truly an advanced civilization.
It makes sense why Mikey thinks the way he does about a Narn/Earth/Minbari alliance but, damn, does this show have so much more in store for you guys than any of you are currently fathoming. You're all now about shins-deep in where B5 is going to take you. No show at that time, and very few since, would dare attempt such a gargantuan and complex TV arc over a ~22 episode-per-season show and take it well, well, well beyond that. Then remember, with all your excitement and interest now, how astonishing this show was almost 30 years ago.
This is one of the best put together episodes of the show. The shift in perspective comes at a welcome time in the narrative and helps gives an "outsiders" perspective on the station and the players on it. *We* know what's actually going on. We know these characters pretty well. But this ep comes at the perfect time to remind us that the vast majority of the universe *doesn't*.
Never seen you guys more emotionally invested in the show, takes me back almost 30 years when I was discovering more every week how f’ing awesome the storytelling was becoming! Strap-in you’ve got one helluva ride ahead. I’m not worried about any potential reboot, I keep plugged into what’s happening, JMS who continues to keep in close contact with fans, says it would be more a reimagining than a reboot. Although the show/station would have the same name(chiefly I think for marketing purposes), besides Sheridan there might not be any of the same characters. Other than a multi-species drama set in space with mysterious powerful forces lurking, the unfolding of the story would be very different. JMS thinks he’s an even better storyteller now and he’s got a strong body of work to back that up.
17:50 What I love about G'kar's recounting of this story is he basically repeats what his father said, and yet G'kar didn't, and has not, heard what he actually said. His father said "be all the things I could never be." Instead, G'kar chose to be a member of the resistance. While it was a noble and bloody act, it wasn't what his father ever wanted for him. I've always loved this episode, but in the few reactions that have been done most people respond fairly lukewarm. I'm glad you guys loved this one so much.
@@simongiles9749 I feel like Brent missed a lot in the episode - to him it was just recap, but there is so much more done subtly in the episode like it how it speaks to the attitudes of Earth
PsyCorps, and we're everywhere for your convenience. Also, if you suspect anyone, please report them, made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Great reaction guys, you've going to enjoy arguing about this show for ages to come
Very cheeky of the Centauri to use B5 to transport mass drivers and heavy energy weapons, The Narn had to react, So should Eath Force and all of the council. Sheridan did a good job.
Aaaaah, one of my favourites as well. For one the TV show angle definitely gives an interesting new perspective on the characters. Now we know what they are when they know they're in front of a camera. :) And then of course we see the Narn/Centauri situation escalating - and CLEARLY affecting the life on B5, far away from both worlds. While the "Earth first"-Minded people might think that they can completely ignore the conflict it might come to bite them in the ass as well... Actually once again reminds me of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the US position in it. :/
Dude, I totally get what you mean! It's like the Narn/Centauri situation is a ticking time bomb, and who knows how it'll affect everything on B5. Plus, I can definitely see the similarities with the real-world events. Crazy stuff!
You're absolutely right. This show is lightning in a bottle and would not be a good remake. JMS is not the same person, he was in the 90s. The politics of the world have changed too much. Even by the 5th season, some of the movies and Crusade (spin-off show), it was all weaker and could never live up to seasons 3 & 4. Any remake of this show, would be a disaster.
I have not watched Babylon 5 in a while. And yet much of this episode evokes current politics. You have nations talking about how much they value peace while starting wars.
@@RasakBlood True, but that's the problem with a remake. JMS is more on the fascist, shut-up-and-do-what-you're-told side, these days. The message would be tainted. Most people, don't even know the definition of the word fascism anymore. The ones shouting that word the loudest, tend to be most representative of the merger of corporate and state power, in this country. Whereas the powerless outsiders get smeared with the label by the same entrenched establishment..
@@corneliusoverton2617 Thank you. The problem is half the people screaming about fascism don’t realize they’re the fascists. The media warns us about fascism every day but fascism, by design, must include the media.
This episode is like a playoff game, so I hope you guys forgive each other for getting overly enthusiastic or emotional. Can’t wait for the next episode!
And now a word from our sponsors...The Real Housewives of Babylon 5... In this episode Delenn gets her hair caught in one of the turbolift doors. Lennier to the rescue. Lol 😆 I just have one last thing to say to Londo. "You put your left foot in, you put your right foot out...". Ha ha ha ha 😂 "Don't worry Charlie ... I've got an angle...".Hanover Fist - Heavy Metal 🎸
A bit of the background - The original network (PTEN) had the habit of scheduling a break mid season - so there was a 2 month difference between Hunter Prey and this episodes airdates. To add to the confusion, they ran All honor lies a week out of sequence..... This was meant to catch viewers up after the break
Binging your B5 reactions. Love the energy. Reminds me of debates I thought I'd forgotten years ago. It's an awesome show, and best of all it's timeless storytelling. So many episodes/moments in future seasons I look forward to see you guys get for the first time.
as the tension grows with Earth, the rest of the galaxy keeps moving on, and soon, very soon, things will start falling into place, and Sheridan will realize how deep is the mess he's involved in. In a very personal way, too.
Imagine May 4th, 1995, you and your friends are gathered around the television to watch the latest episode of B5, videotaped from the night before because your local station aired the show at 2 AM, so set your VCR. There's the PSI Corp commercial and everyone notices this weird blip at the end...hold on...go back, play it again...wait go back again, advance frame by frame...freeze!
Also, you need to do the next episode In the Shadow of Za'ha'Dum NOW. And, if you want to a little bit more of Claudia Christian...track down the October 1999 issue of Playboy...
This is another one of these "that's a new angle to seeing what is going on" episodes. It really makes you think much like the GROPOS episode. To the public they are talking about great victories and conquests while in reality people are dying left and right and there is a huge cost to the victories... It really makes you think.
The political side of B5's plot very much is tied to real life, it's not really a show that you can talk about without getting into real politics. Or at least, trying to avoid talking about real politics in relation to the show pretty much misses the point the shows trying to get across. While JMS couldn't have predicted everything that would happen to the US post 2001 when he wrote this story in the early 90's, he was very much informed and inspired by history. History itself may not repeat, but it does often rhyme.
23:30 and 24:40 I know, story reasons, but Narns knew the location of Centauri ship and they could have used jumpgate to jump behind them. Also using jumpgate when there's no tactical need while your ship is badly damaged..
Not only did we have to wait week to week, but we had the extended time between seasons where we were trying to prevent the show from being cancelled. I love how enthusiastic you are about the show, I can't help thinking you will need sedatives by season three. It is hard not to see the parallels in the politics and propaganda. Keep this in mind throughout the rest of the series.
This is definitely one of the best episodes of the series in my opinion. It just does so much for the story in a unique and enjoyable way. First off the universe building. The audience is given info on the state of the Earth Alliance via the propaganda spin in the reporting and commercials. It kinda gave me the feeling of standing way back and seeing the forest after spending the whole time up close looking at a few trees. While I "knew" what was happening in the broader universe, seeing what the average people Earth generally do made it much more impactful. It really puts in perspective as to how the people pulling the strings are able to get away with as much as they do. The second thing I like about this episode is the character portrayals. We get to see the characters public personas. Instead of being a fly on the wall where we know way more about each character than even their closest companions, now we see what they choose to show the wider universe as a whole. And since we know what they know, the little dance they do in-front of the camera gives some delicious ... "character expansion." As a side note put me down in the "No re-boot/redo" side. I would love some sort of continuation or parallel spin off series, but don't try and fix what doesn't need fixing. As much as I respect JMS as a story creator, he didn't make this series as good as it is by himself. I'm positive the actors and other people involved had important inputs as to how their characters developed and where they went in the story. Without them I don't think they could do justice to the original story already out. New stories that run parallel to the original seasons with different characters would be awesome and really expand the IP. If not that then get new actors and continue from where B5 left off, but let the original stand on it's own.
I'm 99% against reboots - a pet hate of mine with say Batman is that there are so many origin stories out there that you have to have this disambiguation process to check that you're talking about the same thing.
I cannot imagine a remake, reboot or reimagining of B5, in contemporary Hollyweird, which isn’t all about contemporary politics. I cannot imagine it would have the same standard of writing nor acting. Too few in Hollyweird have he experience outside of that industry to know stupid from bright and I cannot count how many times I have seen shows screw up things I know, but they don’t. I have to think we are all better off with repeats and the very occasional good fanfic.
You guys are really fortunate. After the 2nd season there was always a question as to whether or not the WB would cancel the show. So the next seasons.. as great as they were could have ended.. with no answers. The plan was always for 5 seasons, AND it was very likely that the 4th season would be the last, so JMS, the shows writer, really crunched everything into the 4th season. The very last episode in season 5 was produced in the 4th season because of this. But just imagine waiting with baited breath, for the next season.. or half season.. with no guarantee if it would be finished. But from that uncertainty comes the GREAT S Tier 3rd and 4th seasons.
None of the condemned have noticed the fact that Mars is called a colony, not a state or autonomous region, but a colony. And yes, there is a lot of “politics” in the show.
Regarding what alliances might or might not happen and why, I would just remind y'all to think about recent history in the show. Last season, what species was antagonizing literally *everyone*? People on Earth will have that in their heads when deciding who they sympathize with in this war. And politicians consider entirely different things, such as strategic importance, who's likely to win, what will benefit their society in the long run, etc.
Minbari don't lie, they redefined the word "lie". It's a boneheaded thing to do. Yellow journalism around a yellow star ;-) The power behind the President pulling the screens is ... Geppetto ;-))
Lotta deep breathing goin' on. LOL! And now you can almost see over that rollercoaster's first peak that you plunge over when it really takes off. Here we go! You are correct. Just when you think its gonna go left, it goes down and right at 45 degrees. Next one the wheels fly off as you top the peak. Gonna blow your mind. And now I gotta watch again to see you fellas twist into knots again! Week after week hell! What about the months between seasons? Agreed on the reboot. JMS tried 2 spinoffs and failed. Firefly should be left alone too. Oh, and "The psi corp is your friend. Trust the corp." It would be so great if they could, using the same people, go back and redo yhe script to something more fitting today's streaming and rewriting episode length rules. Having all the stuff like you guys are talking about, actually as part of the show in more like a 90 minute episode so the blanks are filled, would be great, but I just dont see a reboot working. I believe it was Cinemax that tried with Stargate. They had a less restrictive format. Dumped after two seasons because it didn't drive subscription numbers like they'd hoped. They always do that with a new sci-fi thinking it'll instantly drive with the inertia of Star Trek. Ultimately SG-1 ran 10 seasons, but it takes time to cultivate. Maybe in today's streaming environment that idea might fare better, but they have to understand that it takes time to build a following. Once established, there are none more loyal.
Not bad for a 30yr old show, hi uh? 😁 The anticipation back then of having to wait a week for the next episode was rough.... But the show is cemented, ,imho, as the best scfi tv show ever. I'm also grinning as you guys try to avoid politics... Just for context, 30yrs ago "political correctness" wasn't the rule. We absolutely discussed the political comparisons with real life analogs. The day after the episodes aired, at work we had to hustle our behinds to get sll the work done because the coworkers and I would set aside the first 90 min of the overnight shift to rant about the show... and I can tell you we held nothing back, including the political aspects.
Excellent observation that the view from Earth does not know everything that is going on out around Babylon 5. And yet Earth government is supposed to be in control. Also, I would say that Babylon 5 wants you to think about politics. It's not just about cool space battles.
Nice new intro. What did you use to create it? I missed the start of this live stream, "Well, I run to the rock just to hide my face, And the rocks cried out, no hiding place, There's no hiding place down here" :)
Everything Ray said is what the creator is aiming for with the new version. It would even be different than this show with some stuff for the old fans. Think he said he wants another shot at it using what he's learned over the years to give us something different but just as good and NOT REPLACE the original show.
even someone starting to watch the series from this episode would get a pretty clear idea of this universe. such as the fact that when IVANOVA is on the bridge, the people there grow eyes on their backs!! 😂😂but if we are more serious, the episode seems very relevant these days, when anyone can put fake news in the information space, right? information has become a means of influence more than ever!..
Oh right, the battle I thought of here is still several episodes off... This episode is a worldbuilding masterpiece. Also, I hope you mean *Disney* Star Wars. I always preferred Star Trek (dead since 2009...), but hearing Star Wars sucks... if you mean anything post-2012, sure, fully agreed. if you mean anything from after 1983... Fair enough. If you include 1977-1983... ouch.
Welcome to propaganda. Alive and over-fed today as ever. I also was delighted with this episode's ISN PoV on B5 - it was a fresh take. I see no reason to remake B5, it remains a great story well told. And yes, Julien would make a great "Johnny" LOL!
Oh dear god you have no idea. When this came out, at best you had a VCR... There was no automatic recording on a sat dish; you either caught the show when it aired or had to deal with not knowing.
Dude! Star Wars doesn't suck. Give it one more chance, watch the first six films again and pay attention to details. It's much deeper than you remember. And if you like it this time, go for the Clone Wars animated show, Rogue One and Andor, it's all HUGE.
Yet another group of reactors who ignore Narn´s actions of last almost hundred years because of their previous history. Being bullied as kid does not excuse you growing up to become a bully yourselves. Narns wanted the war with Centauri, despite being well aware they cannot afford it. The Narn heavy cruiser that was shown here was purposefully designed to face off against the Centauri ship you saw here, with reverse engineered Centauri weapons and still could not limp away. The funny thing is that Centauri cruiser is a museum piece designed over three hundred years ago that they keep in service because it can carry fighters, while their newer vessels that are smaller, faster, better armored, more maneuverable and cheaper to build do not carry fighters. Centauri are most advanced of Young races. And they are military race with militaristic traditions and unchecked ambition. I am not discounting the very real grievances Narns have with Centauri but asking for a fight you know you cannot win is idiotic. They were relying on Centauri not being liked and that Drazi and other races around Centauri borders would jump at the opportunity to attack Centauri. They somehow missed the memo that after being attacked by Narns for decades so Narn Regime could spread out their influence and Centauri being held at bay by their Emperor, which kept their military demoralized, but intact, the other races would not want to side with Narns either.
The last Star Wars Movie was so weird and such a let down :( And I'm worried the next one is being set up to fail, But saying that some of the series are awesome, The Mandalorian The Book of Boba Fet and Andor are all awesome, And Rouge One is probably my favorite Star Wars Movie, The only Star Trek I can watch these days is DS9 and Voyager, Recent Star Trek series all started awesome and then went totally of track and just killed the timeline and cannon lore.
Londo: We want only peace!
Very bold statement from the man that kicked off this war.
For real
"Peace! Peace. I want Peace! A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France, a little piece of Portugal and Austria per chance..."-Mel Brooks, "To Be or Not to Be" (1983)
"It is not they love peace less, but that they love their kind of peace more."
-- Saint Augustine, "City of God"
My most least favorite character do to how well the actor play his role love and hate relationship with Londo
Londo and that senator blowing smoke up everyone's behind. Full of bs. At least its' funny/ infuriating when Londo says the lies...
That commercial convinced me. I think the Psi Corps is my friend, so I trust the corp.
They pay all my bills for life? The Corp is Mother, The Corp is Father.
I love the Corps, they're everywhere which makes it so easy to report your neighbours. Excellent customer service!
one of the creepiest kids I've ever seen! 😂
Yeahhhhhhhhhhh nuhhhhh I’m goooodd hahaha
The Psi Corps is my friend. I trust the Corps.
If any show demands a long discussion after each episode - it is "Babylon 5". I love hearing you guys say "This is the BEST episode so far! 10 out of 10!" I'm confident I'll hear that again.
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Awesome
Just make sure not to let you girl be seen by Dr Franklin 😂
Buckle up buttercup! Then remaining episodes in the season will just friggin’ blow your mind! The rollercoaster just crested the first hill…..the next drop is insane. 🎢
For reals!! 😯
G'Kar: "Let me pass on to you the one thing I've learned about this place. No one here is exactly what he appears. Not Mollari, not Delenn, not Sinclair... and not me."
That's why Babylon 5 is so good to be rewatched. You can see which led to what and what was hinted to where and when.
You might have mentioned it in the uncut version, but what you seem to have missed something during the PSI Corps commercial, that little flash? Before you start the next episode, you could rewatch the scene and stop the video to see what it was. I'd love to see your reaction about what that little flash is. Just let me say that much, it's not an accident or a mistake or a flaw in the tape.
About what you said what the remake today would need to have, remember, G'kar had human women in his quarters.
This was the show to catch up all the newer people starting to watch B5. This type of serialized TV didn't exist until this show.
Blake 7, and Twin Peaks say high. I know Blake 7 wasn't an American produced show, but it was a known property for fans of sci-fi. And it's decades before B5. While Twin Peaks (certainly season 1, season two is a mess), is a bit of everything, it's defiantly serialized and the shows first season was planned out.
@@markwood6056
I’m fairly sure the news crew format had been done previously on M*A*S*H*
I think this is a pretty underrated episode. Seeing our beloved characters from the outside, as if we're people living on one of the colonies watching the news and seeing all of them for the first time is actually kinda cool. It's pretty significant episode for what's to come as well. Showing how ISN is, showing the political trembles on Earth, pretty big. Also, the Corps is mother, the Corps is father.
I am kinda excited for the guys that I like this episode more through their enthusiasm.
I like how realistic and grounded Sheridan is; he's speaking from his own experience and it makes him humble.
The Corp is Mother, The Corp is Father
What are you doing step corp?
And the Corp is Uncle
Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps.
and Hitler and Stalin are the paternal and maternal grandfathers! 😊
That advert could've appeared in Starship Troopers and you would think it fitted right in with a Psi Ops recruitment piece.
I don't know if you guys caught it or not but when Torqueman was interviewing Senator Quantrell she mentioned former Senator Hidoshi, that was the senator that Sinclair always dealt with.
I love your format on tackling this show. Review, watch, discuss, theorize. It shows in your reactions how much this show more than just a simply journey. It's an epic in literary terms. It's so enjoyable to see a group watch this for the first time and have these discussions. And without giving spoilers, I can't wait for you all to get through the rest of the seasons. And then I urge you to go back and re-watch it again. Pick up on all the stuff you missed the first time.
I watch this show almost yearly. And still pick up on tiny details to this day.
Love this episode too, just a unique way to tell a story. And say what you will about Londo, but he is a master politician and he knows how to play to the media.
Your passion for B5 is infectious! I know what that feels like 😂
Totally agreed with you guys, 10/10. You are true fans, and you are good at reading between the lines. You're going to have an incredible ride with the rest of this series. This episode is a bit of a litmus test and you passed with flying colors. Babylon 5 is only just beginning and you guys are going to love it. First season and a half are build-up. This episode was meant as a sort of catch-up show for those who were new to it, before Babylon 5's story really takes off. It is going to take off, it's taking off now, and you guys are on board, catching the stuff you need to catch, and you will enjoy it so much. For those who are not new to the series, it is great to see new fans being forged.
"He looked at her like she was a meal" well if you remember, Pak'Ma'Ra are carion eaters, so you're not far off lol
this is what the alien was thinking: "- should I cook her as a blonde or as a brunette?" 😅
"B5 shouldn't be used as a staging ground" - Earth literally did that exact thing a couple of episodes back in GROPOS
EDIT: 49:00 my first year at University I joined the RPG (aka geek) society and one of the first socials ended up with the usual "Kirk vs Picard" conversation...the dagger eyes I got when I said I preferred Sheridan could've killed a small town :D
Whilst it's not going to happen (someone else is holding on to the IP) but I'd much rather see a reboot of B5's spin-off Crusade as the show got managed into cancellation by TNT before it got going. The technology is now there to do the kind of virtual sets the show tried to do.
Sheridan is as close to Kirk as anyone will ever get.
Yeah , this is a good episode , and based on this discusdion i am looking forward to your reaction of the season 2 ending for sure 🤩 After all those years Babylon 5 is still my favourite TV-series.
The Babylon5 universe is the only tv series which is exhibited in my bookshelf in my living room.
20:20 - of course they would have offices in schools and hospitals. The schools let them get access to new telepaths early, and hospitals allow the Psi-Corps to do brain scans (and help heal injured telepaths when their non-telepath classmates attack them).
Lol the convo at the end, yes us B5 fans have always been on the ass-end of sci-fi fandoms (even Big Bang joked on us) but yall were so right - we got top tier cast that can't be replaced (except by Gary Oldman I guess 😂), and episodes like this that bring up so much thought and discussion. Personally, I haven't ever seen any gatekeeping from this fandom, most of us I think have just gotten used to being looked down on but because we all know how good the show is, doesn't bother us much. I will admit to doing the odd eye-roll to Star Wars fandom though, and I'm glad that there's a rising opinion that Star Wars is a fantasy and not even Sci-fi because I whole heartedly agree - doesn't belong in the same convo as B5/ST/DS9 etc
In all fairness, all the guys in Big Bang liked B5 except Sheldon.
@@sdfried4877 Did they? I haven't watched much of it tbh, that's good to know.
@@Belbecat There’s only 2 or 3 B5 references in the whole 11 years.
@@sdfried4877 Also Big Bang Theory is garbage, so it can be safely ignored.
I like your discussions at the end, also a 10 out of 10 stellar performance guys.
Minbari don't have a free press. Delenn had no idea what she was getting herself into when she agreed to meet with ISN. Minbari are told only what they need to know, and nothing more. It's good we see more and more in these episodes that she isn't exactly being accepted by either humans or Minbari. It's only our main cast of humans, and Lennier that seem to accept her change. Everyone else on both sides is kind of treating her like an insult.
Londo and G'Kar are much better at dealing with the press, and trying to manipulate it for their own ends. And of course Kosh knows better than to let anyone in the media try and interview him. Those Vorlons are truly an advanced civilization.
It makes sense why Mikey thinks the way he does about a Narn/Earth/Minbari alliance but, damn, does this show have so much more in store for you guys than any of you are currently fathoming. You're all now about shins-deep in where B5 is going to take you. No show at that time, and very few since, would dare attempt such a gargantuan and complex TV arc over a ~22 episode-per-season show and take it well, well, well beyond that. Then remember, with all your excitement and interest now, how astonishing this show was almost 30 years ago.
That reporter sure gave Delenn.... How do I put this... No mercy during that interview hehehehehe lol
That was a real Barbara Walters moment.
This is one of the best put together episodes of the show. The shift in perspective comes at a welcome time in the narrative and helps gives an "outsiders" perspective on the station and the players on it. *We* know what's actually going on. We know these characters pretty well. But this ep comes at the perfect time to remind us that the vast majority of the universe *doesn't*.
I love what Sheridan said about the importance of Babylon 5.
Never seen you guys more emotionally invested in the show, takes me back almost 30 years when I was discovering more every week how f’ing awesome the storytelling was becoming! Strap-in you’ve got one helluva ride ahead.
I’m not worried about any potential reboot, I keep plugged into what’s happening, JMS who continues to keep in close contact with fans, says it would be more a reimagining than a reboot. Although the show/station would have the same name(chiefly I think for marketing purposes), besides Sheridan there might not be any of the same characters. Other than a multi-species drama set in space with mysterious powerful forces lurking, the unfolding of the story would be very different. JMS thinks he’s an even better storyteller now and he’s got a strong body of work to back that up.
I can't WAIT to watch Michael's reactions going forward. LOLOL
Really great reaction to this amazing episode guys .
I love how the post discussion is as long as the reaction 🤟😎
I love that you guys are really getting into this series. And there is so much more to come!
B 5 Has been my favourite show ever since it came out, I still binge it at least once a year.
17:50 What I love about G'kar's recounting of this story is he basically repeats what his father said, and yet G'kar didn't, and has not, heard what he actually said. His father said "be all the things I could never be." Instead, G'kar chose to be a member of the resistance. While it was a noble and bloody act, it wasn't what his father ever wanted for him.
I've always loved this episode, but in the few reactions that have been done most people respond fairly lukewarm. I'm glad you guys loved this one so much.
I think you are partly wrong. He take part of, he became somthing his father culd never be. He became free, not be slave.
Only Brent was lukewarm. Mega, Shelley, Jones and Medusa all loved it.
@@simongiles9749 I feel like Brent missed a lot in the episode - to him it was just recap, but there is so much more done subtly in the episode like it how it speaks to the attitudes of Earth
PsyCorps, and we're everywhere for your convenience. Also, if you suspect anyone, please report them, made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Great reaction guys, you've going to enjoy arguing about this show for ages to come
Guys,you need to binge watch more episodes...i love your discussions ...
We would love to if our brains could keep up😅 haha we love the show
Very cheeky of the Centauri to use B5 to transport mass drivers and heavy energy weapons,
The Narn had to react,
So should Eath Force and all of the council.
Sheridan did a good job.
Looking forward to the next one!!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Yeah, next episode is the show shifting up a gear and (with the possible exception of one episode) basically staying there for the rest of the season.
Aaaaah, one of my favourites as well. For one the TV show angle definitely gives an interesting new perspective on the characters. Now we know what they are when they know they're in front of a camera. :) And then of course we see the Narn/Centauri situation escalating - and CLEARLY affecting the life on B5, far away from both worlds. While the "Earth first"-Minded people might think that they can completely ignore the conflict it might come to bite them in the ass as well... Actually once again reminds me of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the US position in it. :/
Dude, I totally get what you mean! It's like the Narn/Centauri situation is a ticking time bomb, and who knows how it'll affect everything on B5. Plus, I can definitely see the similarities with the real-world events. Crazy stuff!
You're absolutely right. This show is lightning in a bottle and would not be a good remake. JMS is not the same person, he was in the 90s. The politics of the world have changed too much. Even by the 5th season, some of the movies and Crusade (spin-off show), it was all weaker and could never live up to seasons 3 & 4. Any remake of this show, would be a disaster.
If anything warnings about fascism at home is more relevant then ever.
I have not watched Babylon 5 in a while. And yet much of this episode evokes current politics. You have nations talking about how much they value peace while starting wars.
in the last 15-20 years, the word "remake" has become synonymous with "disaster" in both cinema and television.
@@RasakBlood True, but that's the problem with a remake. JMS is more on the fascist, shut-up-and-do-what-you're-told side, these days. The message would be tainted. Most people, don't even know the definition of the word fascism anymore. The ones shouting that word the loudest, tend to be most representative of the merger of corporate and state power, in this country. Whereas the powerless outsiders get smeared with the label by the same entrenched establishment..
@@corneliusoverton2617
Thank you. The problem is half the people screaming about fascism don’t realize they’re the fascists. The media warns us about fascism every day but fascism, by design, must include the media.
This episode is like a playoff game, so I hope you guys forgive each other for getting overly enthusiastic or emotional. Can’t wait for the next episode!
"No one here is exactly what they seem" Good guys, and Vilians are just shades of the same light in B5.
And now a word from our sponsors...The Real Housewives of Babylon 5... In this episode Delenn gets her hair caught in one of the turbolift doors. Lennier to the rescue. Lol 😆
I just have one last thing to say to Londo. "You put your left foot in, you put your right foot out...". Ha ha ha ha 😂
"Don't worry Charlie ... I've got an angle...".Hanover Fist - Heavy Metal 🎸
I had my doubts about the Psi Corps, but after seeing that commercial, I’m convinced they’re simply fantastic 😏
Love this episode!
A bit of the background - The original network (PTEN) had the habit of scheduling a break mid season - so there was a 2 month difference between Hunter Prey and this episodes airdates. To add to the confusion, they ran All honor lies a week out of sequence.....
This was meant to catch viewers up after the break
Binging your B5 reactions. Love the energy. Reminds me of debates I thought I'd forgotten years ago.
It's an awesome show, and best of all it's timeless storytelling. So many episodes/moments in future seasons I look forward to see you guys get for the first time.
This show is definitely getting somewhere ...you guys have no idea ...this is only the 2nd lap of the race ...
as the tension grows with Earth, the rest of the galaxy keeps moving on, and soon, very soon, things will start falling into place, and Sheridan will realize how deep is the mess he's involved in. In a very personal way, too.
If you reenact the commercial, Michael has to play the smiling Psi Corp agent.
Cynthia Torquemann: not even being that subtle with the character naming.
Imagine May 4th, 1995, you and your friends are gathered around the television to watch the latest episode of B5, videotaped from the night before because your local station aired the show at 2 AM, so set your VCR. There's the PSI Corp commercial and everyone notices this weird blip at the end...hold on...go back, play it again...wait go back again, advance frame by frame...freeze!
Also, you need to do the next episode In the Shadow of Za'ha'Dum NOW. And, if you want to a little bit more of Claudia Christian...track down the October 1999 issue of Playboy...
Huh. Hearing someone call Rings of Power good in the middle of watching Babylon 5 season 2 sure is weird.
After watching it, didn't really understand all the Rings of Power hate.
I liked it lol
This is another one of these "that's a new angle to seeing what is going on" episodes. It really makes you think much like the GROPOS episode. To the public they are talking about great victories and conquests while in reality people are dying left and right and there is a huge cost to the victories... It really makes you think.
The political side of B5's plot very much is tied to real life, it's not really a show that you can talk about without getting into real politics. Or at least, trying to avoid talking about real politics in relation to the show pretty much misses the point the shows trying to get across. While JMS couldn't have predicted everything that would happen to the US post 2001 when he wrote this story in the early 90's, he was very much informed and inspired by history. History itself may not repeat, but it does often rhyme.
23:30 and 24:40
I know, story reasons, but Narns knew the location of Centauri ship and they could have used jumpgate to jump behind them. Also using jumpgate when there's no tactical need while your ship is badly damaged..
Not only did we have to wait week to week, but we had the extended time between seasons where we were trying to prevent the show from being cancelled.
I love how enthusiastic you are about the show, I can't help thinking you will need sedatives by season three.
It is hard not to see the parallels in the politics and propaganda. Keep this in mind throughout the rest of the series.
This is definitely one of the best episodes of the series in my opinion. It just does so much for the story in a unique and enjoyable way.
First off the universe building. The audience is given info on the state of the Earth Alliance via the propaganda spin in the reporting and commercials. It kinda gave me the feeling of standing way back and seeing the forest after spending the whole time up close looking at a few trees. While I "knew" what was happening in the broader universe, seeing what the average people Earth generally do made it much more impactful. It really puts in perspective as to how the people pulling the strings are able to get away with as much as they do.
The second thing I like about this episode is the character portrayals. We get to see the characters public personas. Instead of being a fly on the wall where we know way more about each character than even their closest companions, now we see what they choose to show the wider universe as a whole. And since we know what they know, the little dance they do in-front of the camera gives some delicious ... "character expansion."
As a side note put me down in the "No re-boot/redo" side. I would love some sort of continuation or parallel spin off series, but don't try and fix what doesn't need fixing. As much as I respect JMS as a story creator, he didn't make this series as good as it is by himself. I'm positive the actors and other people involved had important inputs as to how their characters developed and where they went in the story. Without them I don't think they could do justice to the original story already out. New stories that run parallel to the original seasons with different characters would be awesome and really expand the IP. If not that then get new actors and continue from where B5 left off, but let the original stand on it's own.
I'm 99% against reboots - a pet hate of mine with say Batman is that there are so many origin stories out there that you have to have this disambiguation process to check that you're talking about the same thing.
If you love the show now, man you're in for a treat.
Nailed it yet again guys. Ray's dumbfounded face was a treat. And he's right, no reboot!!
What would you say to these families?
Ray: "I would say do better!"😂
omg so outof left field😂
In the past, now, or in the future... Politics will always be the same !!!! Another great episode..
Not just week after week but between seasons months of waiting after a cliffhanger.
Love the subliminal message on the PSI corp commercial.
I cannot imagine a remake, reboot or reimagining of B5, in contemporary Hollyweird, which isn’t all about contemporary politics. I cannot imagine it would have the same standard of writing nor acting. Too few in Hollyweird have he experience outside of that industry to know stupid from bright and I cannot count how many times I have seen shows screw up things I know, but they don’t. I have to think we are all better off with repeats and the very occasional good fanfic.
You guys are really fortunate. After the 2nd season there was always a question as to whether or not the WB would cancel the show. So the next seasons.. as great as they were could have ended.. with no answers. The plan was always for 5 seasons, AND it was very likely that the 4th season would be the last, so JMS, the shows writer, really crunched everything into the 4th season. The very last episode in season 5 was produced in the 4th season because of this. But just imagine waiting with baited breath, for the next season.. or half season.. with no guarantee if it would be finished. But from that uncertainty comes the GREAT S Tier 3rd and 4th seasons.
None of the condemned have noticed the fact that Mars is called a colony, not a state or autonomous region, but a colony. And yes, there is a lot of “politics” in the show.
The Psi Corps is your friend. Trust the Corps.
God save me from such friends! 😂
Regarding what alliances might or might not happen and why, I would just remind y'all to think about recent history in the show. Last season, what species was antagonizing literally *everyone*? People on Earth will have that in their heads when deciding who they sympathize with in this war. And politicians consider entirely different things, such as strategic importance, who's likely to win, what will benefit their society in the long run, etc.
Minbari don't lie, they redefined the word "lie". It's a boneheaded thing to do. Yellow journalism around a yellow star ;-) The power behind the President pulling the screens is ... Geppetto ;-))
So true
Nice except for the fact that the sun is pretty much white in visible radiation.
@@ianstopher9111 Plants know that the green part of the spectrum is optimum
Green, for lack of a better word, is good
Lotta deep breathing goin' on. LOL! And now you can almost see over that rollercoaster's first peak that you plunge over when it really takes off. Here we go! You are correct. Just when you think its gonna go left, it goes down and right at 45 degrees. Next one the wheels fly off as you top the peak. Gonna blow your mind. And now I gotta watch again to see you fellas twist into knots again! Week after week hell! What about the months between seasons? Agreed on the reboot. JMS tried 2 spinoffs and failed. Firefly should be left alone too. Oh, and "The psi corp is your friend. Trust the corp." It would be so great if they could, using the same people, go back and redo yhe script to something more fitting today's streaming and rewriting episode length rules. Having all the stuff like you guys are talking about, actually as part of the show in more like a 90 minute episode so the blanks are filled, would be great, but I just dont see a reboot working. I believe it was Cinemax that tried with Stargate. They had a less restrictive format. Dumped after two seasons because it didn't drive subscription numbers like they'd hoped. They always do that with a new sci-fi thinking it'll instantly drive with the inertia of Star Trek. Ultimately SG-1 ran 10 seasons, but it takes time to cultivate. Maybe in today's streaming environment that idea might fare better, but they have to understand that it takes time to build a following. Once established, there are none more loyal.
Another great reaction that I watched live & watched again to see the edit. Looking forward to the next live live watch alone.
Not bad for a 30yr old show, hi uh? 😁 The anticipation back then of having to wait a week for the next episode was rough.... But the show is cemented, ,imho, as the best scfi tv show ever.
I'm also grinning as you guys try to avoid politics... Just for context, 30yrs ago "political correctness" wasn't the rule. We absolutely discussed the political comparisons with real life analogs. The day after the episodes aired, at work we had to hustle our behinds to get sll the work done because the coworkers and I would set aside the first 90 min of the overnight shift to rant about the show... and I can tell you we held nothing back, including the political aspects.
Fun bit: This is 36 hours on Babylon 5.... this is the 36th hour long episode
How will this end? IN FIRE!
'Do you want to know more?'
Excellent observation that the view from Earth does not know everything that is going on out around Babylon 5. And yet Earth government is supposed to be in control. Also, I would say that Babylon 5 wants you to think about politics. It's not just about cool space battles.
My problem with a reboot is with the number of actors who are no longer living because I can't see G'kar or Vir being played by anyone else
Ray got that grip on politics
the green ship shooting at the begining was a narn transport the purple ships are centauri
🤣
Nice new intro. What did you use to create it? I missed the start of this live stream, "Well, I run to the rock just to hide my face, And the rocks cried out, no hiding place, There's no hiding place down here" :)
One of my students made it for us. The new logo was created by the graphics design teacher at my school.
Love the new into. Bro😂
Everything Ray said is what the creator is aiming for with the new version.
It would even be different than this show with some stuff for the old fans. Think he said he wants another shot at it using what he's learned over the years to give us something different but just as good and NOT REPLACE the original show.
even someone starting to watch the series from this episode would get a pretty clear idea of this universe. such as the fact that when IVANOVA is on the bridge, the people there grow eyes on their backs!! 😂😂but if we are more serious, the episode seems very relevant these days, when anyone can put fake news in the information space, right? information has become a means of influence more than ever!..
Battles? Yes. When? Later. Hahahaha
the alien that you said could lick the reporter lol that alien in the B5 universe eats people
Not really, they're carron eaters. They'd only eat dead people.
Oh right, the battle I thought of here is still several episodes off...
This episode is a worldbuilding masterpiece.
Also, I hope you mean *Disney* Star Wars. I always preferred Star Trek (dead since 2009...), but hearing Star Wars sucks... if you mean anything post-2012, sure, fully agreed. if you mean anything from after 1983... Fair enough. If you include 1977-1983... ouch.
Welcome to propaganda. Alive and over-fed today as ever.
I also was delighted with this episode's ISN PoV on B5 - it was a fresh take.
I see no reason to remake B5, it remains a great story well told. And yes, Julien would make a great "Johnny" LOL!
Oh dear god you have no idea. When this came out, at best you had a VCR... There was no automatic recording on a sat dish; you either caught the show when it aired or had to deal with not knowing.
Two words....Neville Chamberlain.
18:16 The got to learn valuable skills! 🤦♂️
He did way too good of a job holding a mirror to our current society. That's why I cringe when this one comes up; I don't trust modern media.
When you finish Babylon 5, you might try its main competitor at the time: Star Trek Deep Space 9.
... Kinda creepy how prescient this was for now
Dude! Star Wars doesn't suck. Give it one more chance, watch the first six films again and pay attention to details. It's much deeper than you remember. And if you like it this time, go for the Clone Wars animated show, Rogue One and Andor, it's all HUGE.
B5 Hype! :)
Wait. "2000 worlds in 14 solar systems". How exactly does that work?
two dozen, not two thousand.
@@walkir2662 Oh, thanks. That does indeed make more sense.
I don't want to give you any spoilers, but you better upgrade your chairs to have seatbelts on them.
They are a dying race. Who, Narns or Centauri?
"Yes" - Kosh
Shadrakka! 💥💥💥
Yet another group of reactors who ignore Narn´s actions of last almost hundred years because of their previous history. Being bullied as kid does not excuse you growing up to become a bully yourselves. Narns wanted the war with Centauri, despite being well aware they cannot afford it. The Narn heavy cruiser that was shown here was purposefully designed to face off against the Centauri ship you saw here, with reverse engineered Centauri weapons and still could not limp away. The funny thing is that Centauri cruiser is a museum piece designed over three hundred years ago that they keep in service because it can carry fighters, while their newer vessels that are smaller, faster, better armored, more maneuverable and cheaper to build do not carry fighters. Centauri are most advanced of Young races. And they are military race with militaristic traditions and unchecked ambition. I am not discounting the very real grievances Narns have with Centauri but asking for a fight you know you cannot win is idiotic. They were relying on Centauri not being liked and that Drazi and other races around Centauri borders would jump at the opportunity to attack Centauri. They somehow missed the memo that after being attacked by Narns for decades so Narn Regime could spread out their influence and Centauri being held at bay by their Emperor, which kept their military demoralized, but intact, the other races would not want to side with Narns either.
The last Star Wars Movie was so weird and such a let down :(
And I'm worried the next one is being set up to fail,
But saying that some of the series are awesome,
The Mandalorian The Book of Boba Fet and Andor are all awesome,
And Rouge One is probably my favorite Star Wars Movie,
The only Star Trek I can watch these days is DS9 and Voyager,
Recent Star Trek series all started awesome and then went totally of track and just killed the timeline and cannon lore.
I liked Rogue One and Andor because The Empire was scary again and they didn't act like buffoons.