Protecting historic ships like The Sullivans across United States
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- Опубликовано: 14 апр 2022
- When it comes to protecting historic ships like The Sullivans across United States, one thing is for sure: it will be expensive.
They survived war on the high seas but Mother Nature can really hurt them. A smaller warship like the The Sullivans with its three-eighths of an inch thin hull can be affected not just by the river ice, but more-so wind-whipped waves off Lake Erie.
We spoke today with some experts with the Historic Naval Ships Association for their perspectives.
The USS Kidd, a sister ship to USS The Sullivans as a World War II Fletcher class destroyer, is actually better protected in a cradle like dry dock. It's located in the Mississippi River in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and adjustable because the river there goes up and down by 40 feet.
www.wgrz.com/article/news/loc...
My God I can't imagine if the ship were to capsize how bad it would be in such a small space. This truly is awful such a ship with a rich history slowing sinking beneath the waves let alone the name sake of the ship the Sullivan Brothers
USN still have another destroyer named The Sullivans, so they are still being honored not only by the Fletcher class one but also the Arleigh Burke class one
From the UK. I understand that the unusual name, "The Sullivans" is in honour of 3 dead members of the same family who died serving in WW2 because a current USN Arleigh Burke destroyer graciously accompanied HMS Queen Elizabeth on her Summer/Autumn Cruise last year. We hope that the US are able to save this important vessel because of the sacrifices it represents.
Not 3 brothers, 5 brothers.
@@sherp2u1 Thank you for correcting him.
I want to add the brothers died onboard the light cruiser USS Juneau during first naval battle of Guadalcanal, the battle was a chaotic surface action at night, which the Japanese really excelled at, the Juneau was torpedoed by one of the Japanese destroyer and retreated from battle area, while making their way to their base the cruiser was torpedoed again by enemy submarine and this is when the cruiser sank. Rumor has it two brothers went down with the ship and two went into the water after abandoning ship, while the fate of the fifth is unknown. The fate of the two who survived was also unknown since the USN could only rescue or accounted less than 15 survivors. Also another rumor about the fifth, some survivors said he also survived and went onto a raft with other survivors, but went away from the raft at night without anyone noticing, probably looking for his siblings or maybe delirium.
The condition of the sea in which they sank is also dangerous, it was stated there was 100 survivors that survived the sinking, but the area is crawling with sharks and also many of the wounded survivors probably died long before the rescue came, the rescue themselves were delayed for a long time because of bad communication and bad information sorting.
@@ramal5708 Thank you for filling in the gaps. Its been more than 40 years since I've heard their stories. In fact they were still retrieving personal accounts of several of the naval ships sunk during the war. The Indianapolis is the one that causes me the most heartache. I had an uncle I was to never meet who died at only 19 years old on that ship.
🇬🇧 I hope something can be done to save this piece of history and keep this tribute to the Sullivans afloat .
Proud to know the Sullivan is the sister ship to our beloved Kidd here in Baton Rouge.
This ship has meaning, the Sullivans sons all died, This can never happen again! this ship must be saved
When I was on the DD-821 (a couple of years younger than The Sullivans) in 1973, we had to replace a 20x30' piece of hull plating that had rotted through, to the point sunlight was streaming in! (Starboard side, after engine room)
BTW, it was 1/4" plate, just (4-6") above the waterline.
I crossed The Sullivans several times during that period, scrounging for parts.
You were not allowed to take parts off The Sullivans!
Rumor was, the brothers were on board, strange things would happen.
@@zrated Yes it was on my ship. They had some sort of CP on the reserve fleet ships also, different than the onboard CAPAC's on active ships.
@@brucelytle1144 Were yo an HT? I was An EM. I remember it in the back basin
@@challenger-rta3761 nope MM. Liked my job, didn't like the company I worked for ;) Wound up as a engineer on merchant ships.
This is a PERFECT analogy for how your country treats its vets.
Disgraceful.
Hey you are wrong, the government treats vets way worse
@@Tula-cs1ef The country treats its vets very well. People don't take responsibility for their own lives. (a vet).
But hey! We have billion dollar football stadiums...funded in part by *taxpayer money!*
@@KB4QAA That's not fully true...my father received care by the VA...there were some issues...not getting care at certain times...back around 2010 ~ 2012.
@@raybin6873 Really? Your father is proof the entire nation treats all vets poorly? Well.
too bad the Bills need a new stadium, which we all know is more important, or this could be fixed easily by the state gov
Amen to that
What brings in more revenue the ship or the buffalo bills?
Yeah I'm pretty sure in New York state. Has the tax revenue. I mean they're what the second or number-one in robbing I mean taxing their citizens to death. No wonder the Giants and the Jets play in Jersey. And that ain't no prize neither. I sure wish they can save that ship
@@kevo6767 Buffalo socks
@@philipwaddles984 You're absolutely right pockets get lined thick up that way. I'm positive they will save the ship. When push comes to shove We the People will do the right thing when politicians fail us once again.
Was in Mothballs at the Phila Naval Base years ago. Had a reputation there of being haunted.
A thin hull of mild steel in the water for 80 years, I fear when they go to patch her they'll find most of the hull is made of paint and hope.
The hull should have had routine inspections to make sure no leaks.
They need at least 4 4" high Volume pumps going.I dont see that in the photos,
Well all this news coverage should raise some funds.
Good reporting by GRZ
I remember The Sullivans when it was satationed in Newport, R.I. back in the 1960's. I was on the Davis at that time. Sullivans is a special ship named after the best the Navy ever had...The Sullivan Bros.
It’s called a list. She’s Listing to Starboard.
The USS The Sullivans DD 537 had problems for years and nothing done to move her to a dry dock and repair correctly or make a slip and put her on land. This is a video from 2021 with holes and yes they will only get bigger: ruclips.net/video/9WSHWGbnVnQ/видео.html I have visited the ship along with Little Rock CLG 4 many times and they are great museum ships.
In 1977, she and cruiser USS Little Rock (CG-4) were processed for donation to the Buffalo and Erie County Naval & Military Park in Buffalo, New York. The ship now serves as a memorial.
Looks like a lot of money was used for New structures were added including a new museum, and the new Liberty Hound restaurant opened in the summer of 2012.
There's a slight list there, but the water movement is from water circulation motors to prevent ice.
MM1 USN.
That minor amount of water movement is is insignificant in your linked video.
New ships have more water being constantly pumped through assorted ship's systems.
Maybe if that money had been spent on maintenance of the ship itself, it wouldn't be listing to starboard with deck awash. She's 80 years old. Ships require constant maintenance, expensive maintenance. Old ships require even more maintenance. Without that maintenance, they invariably end up sunken alongside the dock.
Unfortunately it can be extremely costly as well as time-consuming to wait for a drydock to open and be available, The bigger the ship the harder for it to find a suitable drydock, The USS Texas (BB-35) has been waiting for a drydock to open up for her to go to for quite some time now.
The director of the naval park said that to take her to a dry dock would cost 5 million dollars, & they simply don't have that money.
Looks like an excellent museum - noticed a McDonnell F-101B interceptor on display as well. Hope this can be remedied & flood damage addressed.
Interesting how NOBODY mention WHO the Sullivan Brother's were! We should be tallkng about the USS Juneau! 🤨
Have you seen the movie about them?
They have many times dummy
I believe that we, in Texas, can feel your pain. We have a similar issue we have been fighting for decades with our hero ship. She is slightly older and served in WWI and WWII.
battleshiptexas.org/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Texas_(BB-35)
Best of luck and "Don't give up the ship!"
We wouldve saved Texas ages ago if our state government provided the damn resources and manpower.
0:32 pitbull is so happy
C Dive Houma LA. Nothing they can’t do!
I have walked through those ships a couple times, and there was also a submarine.
Now there is two 🤣
Has anyone considered bringing in a floating drydock that after they refloat her to move the ship into the drydock to make permanent repairs to the hull and sandblast the hull and repaint it so it will last 20 more years before another drydocking.
the issue, *MONEY* it took *YEARS* for texas to get what she needs and she was just as bad if not worse then The Sullivans
You going to pay for that? They rely entirely on donations to stay afloat. The Navy does not pay for any of the maintenance on the ships once they become museum ships.
of course they have thought of it, it is obvious. But it's not free. Every museum ship wants to do this but this is not something they can do for free. It has to be scheduled, it has to be paid for, and it's not like renting a car. Nearly every museum ship has scheduled drydock time but most often, for lack of availability or sufficient funds, these plans run late for years. Some ships get local municipal funding but it's not enough by itself to pay for such a major project.
Funny how politicians say there's never any funds for our infrastructure and restoration at home. But somehow there's always an extra billions laying around for aid to foreign countries.
where's the air bags?
Museum ships are a touchy thing as they get older. Throughout the world you have all manner of preservation methods going on and none of them are perfect. For larger ships it is often more structurally sound to keep them in water for support, as permanent concrete berths will corrode the steel almost worse than water. When putting a salt-water ship in fresh water storage you have to be careful to change out the 'zincs' for ones suited for fresh water as the electrolytic reactions are different than saltwater and traditional zincs will actually not work and cause more damage to the hull., something the USS Cod dealt with for the first part of its retirement.
Like any museum, a lot of money is needed for upkeep and updates, and unfortunately there isn't a lot of federal money going out for museum ships as they are not as popular as "The Arts". I think the hosting cities have a large obligation to help the preservation societies and should be more responsible in managing benefits and other income methods to help them out. These aren't just a budget item: They are history and tourism in one, just like a brick and mortar museum.
I feel a good cathodic protection system would keep the corrosion to a minimum. CP has been in use with underground pipelines for years with great results both impressed current and galvanic systems both.
touchy is one way of putting it. sounds like the the prop was removed 18 years ago with intent to polish & display it for $ problem was loss of ballast so they drilled holes in transom purposely flooded aft compartment get the bow back up level but now a new problem
Unfortunately money is always an issue with museum ships as they don't get funding for the most part as you mentioned and only get what they can from limited money from people going to the museum or donating, And inevitably it leads to things like this when money isn't available for drydock or one isn't open.
@@FrederickTheAnon14W exactly even now Texas is waiting for a drydock
I had no idea that there were a different zinc anodes for fresh and salt water. That’s fascinating.
I understand the steel is somewhere around 1/4” plate above the water line and I don’t know but surely a bit thicker below water line. Yeah?
That’s surprisingly thin for how massive that ship is. It’s amazing it’s been possible to keep it patched up enough to float this long!
What a shitty situation for a badass piece of historical American significance.
Considering the price the Sullivan family paid for the United States the least the US Goverment could do is save the ship that bears the family's name.
Please save this historical ship it is a Huge part of our history it Represents the unselfish sacrifice of our families to defend the country the home the love of our way of life.
They need money. I wish the federal government would help
Ironic that this is happening on the 110th anniversary of the Titanic disaster.
I'm thinking of sinking moskva destroyer
Not a good day for ships !
I would imagine the hull has rusted through. The Sullivans, DD 537, has a thin hull for weight savings and thus, to more speed on the water. I suspect there will be some sort of buoyancy devices being deployed to right the ship until it can be pumped out and towed to a drydock facility for proper repairs.
I think that they can kind of make an air bubble in the compartment to stop the flow of water
The Sullivans. We stick together.
Send divers in to patch the hull or seal the doors
The Navy should be stepping up! I know it's not in commission be it represents a family that gave all 5 sons in service to the country!
Doesn't belong to the Navy. The park has money to make the repairs it was just a bad case of timing!
@@markvittorini5497 Actually the Navy does retain legal title to any warship, and has taken back ships in the past that were let go for too long. USAF SECURITY POLICE 1982-1997.
SB: Write your congressmen and ask for a raise in your taxes.
@@drewpooters62 I'm sorry, but you have been misinformed. All those museum ships belong to what ever civilian authority who owns them. The Navy no longer has any title to them. And that includes all the battleships.
@@kenkahre9262 Wanna bet? I did volunteer work at several museums and under both CFR and DoD regs, if a museum item that falls under clear disrepair and or mismanagement the government CAN pull that item back and scrap it, as was the case for the USS North Carolina some years back. DoD WILL HAVE the ultimate say over museum aircraft, ships and other material in clear cases of malfeasance on the part of civillian operators. The recent case of the USCGS Bramble is a outstanding example. IF they want it back, they'll take it.
Maybe a small ship such as the Destroyer can share a coffer dam location with one of the larger battleships? Seems to me room maybe made for the small destroyer.
the only long term viable option is out of water display, or a coffer dam that can be dewatered.
Otherwise you are looking a lot of long term never ending, expensive upkeep if you keep them in water, more so with salt water.
Dry them out or loose most of these historic ships within the next 50 years.
Can they balloon the stern?
ok so if water is comming in at the stern it can only be a few things the rubber seal or a shaft seal or she has a hole in her hull i hope she can stay afloat i was a Damage controlmen on a FFG
These were fast built WW2 throw away ships. There not supposed to still be around, the hulls are thin for light weight speed.
Wasn't this ship named after 5 brothers who were killed? Sad it hasn't been up kept.
money is always an issue.
They sell flex seal in big buckets now maybe you need a half a dozen buckets 😢😢
The only ship the Navy named for more than one person.
🇺🇸
or,,maybe something like what Japan did with their battleship Mikasa could be done with The Sullivans. As always the tricky part is funding for such a project.
there is a problem with that. concrete is actually worse then water in the end.
Why weren’t the watertight doors kept closed? At least that would have confined the flooding to a smaller area/volume. Sadly, the only way to preserve large vehicles, is to use them for what they were intended to do, and earn their own, ongoing, constantly renewing, keep.
Damn I wish I could do something..
Do they not set Material Condition Yoke on these ships at the end of the day? Active warships do to prevent exactly this.
mabye a money issue. she isn't manned like an active ship.
Thave the Thullivan? English pronunctiation would help!
Concrete the area of the leak create a concrete Box and pump it.
Its not that complicated, they either want to save it, or they dont!
Can you imagine a ship worth hundereds of millions of dollars, just left to sink without anyone really trying very hard to save it. We live in a clown world
MT: It's NOT worth millions of dollars. The US Navy usually has to PAY scrappers to take retired ships. Breaking them up and handling hazards waste is very expensive.
This ship hasn't been property of the USN or any part of the Federal government for years.
@@KB4QAA slight issue: its a historical relic. It's probably not worth hundreds of millions of dollars, but it is one of the only four remaining fletcher class destroyers.
@@jll5446 It's going to become a historic underwater rust pile.
fix it....im coming to see it in a year.
Put them up on land with pools of water arround them ,as museum's !
I’m on metallurgist for Bath iron Works and a salvage diver do you guys need help I mean we’re pretty busy up here Bath iron Works but my boss will probably tell me to pack my tools up and come down and get that boat back floating as soon as he had the word all you guys got to do is ask for help at the Right Pl., Bath iron Works it’s one of our babies
Why can't cathodic protection be used on the hulls of these old WW2 ships? Pipelines have used CP both galvanic and impressed current to prevent corrosion in soil for many many years. Saltwater is an even better environment to use CP. I feel a few thousand dollars in a cathodic protection system could keep metal loss to a minimum and in turn prevent the hulls of these old battleships from rusting through.
The answer is - corruption.
@@genem895 Right. Why buy one hammer for 12.99 when you can buy one for 1299.99 and pocket the rest. If I need to explain that to anyone just move along.
Underwater welders are the only chance for it, assuming it has a chance.
The ship is sunk to the bottom - sitting in water w/out maintenance for 20 years - what could go wrong - oh a leak
The back rear starboard side of the ship ? I question the knowledge and verbal skills of that reporter
lol, head-scratcher that one.
Put air bladders in flooded area’s
Can't they put some Flex Tape on it?
Sounds like a job for flex seal
Wheres that Flex Seal guy. He could fix it I think.
Symbolism at its best
They need to be serious, if they are going to preserve these ships for future generations to see and visit. Get them permanently out of the water!!!
All it takes is money. Just a few million dollars.
loaded too many Duff's chicken wings !!!
sharing
Check out some AS34 Vets: Coffer Dam for SSBN (boat had to abort patrol) Coffer Dam crew under the supervision of Cmd. Kennth Fox, USN, deceased, had the dam built, installed and repairs to the boat in record time. First time for an SSBN not requiring stay in the yards. FYI: our floating dry dock was across the Bay of Cadiz undergoing repairs. Ok, wave the flag here: my shop was first to move and replace a type 11 periscope with the Boomer tied to AS34. Yet another accommodation. Boat had to abort its patrol. Message came ti AS34, Cmd. Fox called our shop, the chief put me on the phone and I assured him a new scope would be on the pier tomorrow. Priority 1-999 signed by fox, communicated to Ships Parts Stateside.... I had the missile crane operators bring it aboard, then the shop Chief said turn your hat around Ford, and both of use, removed and installed a new scope. Chief said hit the beach while he finished up. Preliminary diagnostics successful, 4 hours later Boomer was on its way to patrol area with a message that Type 11 is 100%. Some of those now old farts that loved their jobs and are still around I know would be delighted to form that working party.....include what's left of our fantastic dive shop!!!!!!!!!
Recommendation come after watching sinking moskva hit by Ukrainians, almost end of big warship age
If Mythbusters taught me anything it's we're going to need a bunch of ping pong balls lol
Thank you, I needed that laugh.
It’s Amazing that our gub’mint can always find billions of dollars to send weapons and supplies to far away places like Southwest Asia, the Middle East, Ukraine… but American landmarks are left to rot. 😕
This ship is no longer Federal Government property, and hasn't been for a long time.
Typical museum ship management by waiting for disaster before actually fixing the hull.
USS Texas hull has rusted to where They will never be able to stop the leaks.
The hull isn't strong enough now to put it on blocks in a drydock.
in texas case is was bad management. there is a new team and things look good for texas. she is just waiting for a drydock to be opened and when finished she will be parked elsewhere so better chance of money from visitors.
The Sullivans had raised money to work on her but this happened fast
How about a couple of big cranes with straps to at least keep it from sinking further?
A Fletcher class DD like The Sullivans displaces roughly 2100 tons, good luck finding a crane that can lift that that's not in a shipyard or on a cranebarge. The first is stuck in place, and the second is either unable to get to the ship, or way way too expensive.
They weigh 2500 tons, so it would need multiple very large cranes to even consider moving it. If they hole can be closed and then pumped out it can be towed somewhere for repairs or even dry display.
@@epistte It "displaces" 2100 "tons, weighs considerably more.
Get a couple crane's and dry dock it on land
Maybe start setting material condition Zebra at the end of the day.
These ships are part of American history but they are no longer of use to the Tax payer. Saying that they are museum pieces that need to be preserved. The trouble is tax payers are unwilling to pay for the up keep. That is why these ships need to be located where they will have the max amount of visitors to generate the money to keep them up.The Texas is in a similar way. It was located in a area that just did not generate the funds needed to keep it in a condition that it deserves.
don't blame the tax payers blame the government. the federal government gave millions to Pakastani gender studies. *GENDER STUDIES!* those millions would be put to better use helping to preserve these ships
Tax payer?? Hell fool O PUKE When president gave the Iranians enough to buy and keep 30 of these ships preserved for 1000 years!!!The reason taxes are so high is because of idiots like you to start with. Go back to mommies basement. Shut and lock the door!!! 😂😂😂
@@Revkor We also gave billions to the wealthiest people in America. That still doesn't solve the problem of keeping these ships funded.
Seems like someone really screwed up in this situation.
she is an old ship that was ment to only last so long. she is going on 80. this was bound to happen. she was having issues. the museum was on it and this happened.
The list is much worse today (4-15-2022) then it was yesterday.
They won't have the money to repair this wreck. Time to have it paid off and have a salvage barge pull up and break it up. I know that's not what people want to hear but that's the only viable option.
It's probably on bottom
I can't believe they didn't commission a battle ship in there name .sad
Pumps are running 24/7 but not at the moment?
When, exactly, did journalism die?
Now the powers-that-be miraculously find funding when just funding the requested maintenance to begin with could have prevented this whole thing? Reminds me of our greater American infrastructure. We're waiting for disaster, then somehow funding will be available, with the disaster blamed on the prior administration, of course.
Say hi to ur dog for me
I think it might have a hole in it.
what does the USA and Russia have in common ships are sinking
Can somebody run down to harbor freight and pickup a couple of 10,000 GPH water pumps and pump her out? Somebody start a go fund me page and lets buy them some proper water pumps. Harbor freight has them for $260.
Just send in a Urkrainen tractor.
Sunk faster then a Russian cruiser.
80 year old ships need to have constant $ to keep floating.
It might be better to not try to keep and preserve so many of these ships and put resources into the best choice boats.
Inexcuseable, to allow this to get to this point. Inexcuseable. The Sullivans gave FIVE SONS in WWII - and this is the way that we repay their generosity. I am ashamed for every American.
blame the economy. it's hard for musems to get finds to give these ships the care they need. in the worse case and the Sullivans sinks fully we have her sisters. Texas is *THE LAST* Super dreadnought left afloat and at one point she was even worse condition then this.
@@Revkor At least Texas have a “museum spot”, Have you looked at the SS United States, shit doesn’t even have a permanent home, just abandoned with all paint nearly stripped of. So much respect for one of the last ocean liners along with the Queen Mary…
@@belfast4893 she actually doesn't anymore, her original spot is in the middle of an industrial area so not many tourists so they are looking for a new home for her. And United States does have her own problems. again instead of giving millions to pakistani gender studies give that money to these various ships.
@@Revkor I blame an ungrateful nation, in which the people soon forget sacrifice in specific, whilst mouthing mindless "patriotic" pap. The Sullivan family gave ALL and their namesake ship should've been treated as a national treasure.
@@maniyan_wanagi I haven't and the amount of support they are getting shows that many don't. again blame the government for not assisting, ESPECIALLY since they are the reason it's harder for people to support these ships
It's sad to see any ship founder, especially with USS The Sulivans association to past tragic history. But whilst commenting on where money is spent one might like to bear in mind the tragedy unfolding in Ukraine and remember that this is a highly connected World. What happens there could easily spread well beyond Europe. Lives and jobs lost here mean market loss for you and therefore more unemployment. Or worse. The great USA paid a terrible price to ensure government of the people by the people did not perish during WW2, and trust me, Europe, when it stops to think, is eternally grateful. Very, very few want to see that sacrifice repeated and achieving that is a very delicate balancing act.
Sad
0:30....da a LEAK.🥴
Sorry to say, but Buffalo just can't seem to get these type of things right.
The ship must have known that another 'band-aid' fix was on the way and decided to end it all.
The hull is too rotted to survive a dry-dock restoration maybe it's time to salvage what you can and try for a land based tribute. If you want to have a proper 'memorial' FUND it. 😥 Semper-fi
exactly so, museum ships do not need to be floating (viz. Great Britain in Bristol)
Just cement it in place and give visitors some tiny idea of what life was like for the sailors/etc. on that ship. Maybe even a wave maker, firehose, flames, smoke, rotting corpses, and cordite.
Don't forget the sharks with their dead eyes, like a dolls eyes.
@@lawrencelewis2592 right?
Or trying to swim away from sinking vessel through waves of burning oil. Grim business.
The earlier video showed electric small trash pumps being used wat a joke. They should have 4” trash pumps or at least 2” gas running that water out ,and a diver with some ply wood and threaded rod and a 2x4 for inside some carpet under lay or something . This boat is getting treated like shit then she needs a dry dock
get tugs and pull to dry dock
I think a little counter flooding is in order
No power, no crew and almost all equipment has been non-operational for years.
@Liam Conway it's sitting on the bottom right now, a counter flood will only right it.
The DPRK North Korea takes very good care of their fleet of US Navy spy ships they have captured. Maybe you should seek moth ball ship guidance and financial support from them. The Ko-reuns refurbished the mains on the USS Pueblo, repainted it all in Regulation US Navy colors and built a concrete sarcophagus around the bottom of the hull. They left all the 50 Cal. rounds' holes in that hit the ship intact, a few US uniforms and originals of the signed confessions of the captain & crew saying that they were not there to collect data on the pink Bottle-nose dolphin.
The Spy ship, USS Pueblo, first launched in 1945, is still commissioned as an active ship in the US Navy and the only ship owned and maintained as a tourist attraction by a hostile country that the US is still technically at war with. The only older ship is the Revolutionary War-era USS Constitution.
Scrap it.
Its more interesting to see it sinked