I strongly recommend reading "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour"; Hornfischer and Whitener, the historical account of Taffey 3 and the Battle off the Philippine Island of Samar. INCREDIBLE story of bravery. I'm proud to have been a tin can sailor (2 DEs and a Gearing class DD). I only would hope that I might have had a smidgen of the bravery of these men. To those 186 who perished: "Stand relieved, men, we have the watch."
Thanks for your sacrifices, Jim, personal and professional while you were serving. Taffy 3 is an incredible story. If put in that situation, men from any time period would have done their duty. It must have been exhilarating and terrifying at the same time. Like the submarine service, we can only imagine the crew was molded in Evans' image and emulated his personality. Thanks for watching, and your support!
@@eb311235 I highly recommend that series brought to you by Enterprise Rent a Car - - named after the ship! It's a very good series, and thanks for sharing. I haven't watched that series in about four years, so maybe it's time to give it another viewing! Thanks as always, Mostly Sane!
While I want to say what a story it must have been, I can't imagine the terror and horror he experienced that day. Losing your home, and 56% of your shipmates to the sea is...unimaginable. Appreciate your support, and thanks for watching!
I hate to repeat what somebody else said but again thanks for helping us make sense of this I remember seeing the petrel video of the debris at a higher depth and thinking the poor Johnston was just blown apart there's nothing left of it and then the bow section of the wreckage was found I'm happy the ship wasn't completely obliterated and that the men who sacrificed their lives to have more of a memorial upon the ocean floor than just a few shreds of wreckage.
Well said, Jeh B. To see the bow with her guns trained to starboard (and no doubt blazing away) above the proud 557, is a sight to behold. They did their duty to the last full measure! Thanks for watching!
@@BuffaloNavalPark The men of Taffy-3 literally charged into certain death and yet they stopped a Japanese fleet several times more powerful than they were The single selfless act save d tens of thousands possibly hundreds of thousands of lives in the Philippines campaign
Good to see SCPO Branning . I recall a cold November Saturday he donated his time providing a personal tour of DD-537 before closing the ship for the season.
Thanks! He just retired in September 2021 and was my mentor here. He's missed. We do have a video called "Hail to the (Senior) Chief where I interview him for 20 minutes or so on his time here at the Naval Park and other things. You might enjoy it. Thanks for watching and for your comments.
I am 5th generation Navy. Served 10 years Greenside Corpsman. I was 12 when The Sullivans came to Buffalo. My dad brought my brothers and I many times. The Johnston was part of a thesis I did as a history minor in college on the battle in Leyte Gulf. Her story was then repeated to us in boot camp. Taffy-3 had absolutely no business going up against the vessels they did. Yet they did so knowing the cost would be high. For the Fallen- Stand down now good and faithful servants. Your long watch is over. We have the Conn now. Go rest high on that mountain brothers. Be at ease, Rest in Honored Peace. Go forth and war no more. God's Speed and God bless. Prayers for your families and friends. Prayers for those still on watch. Fair Winds and Following Seas Brothers. And one more time this old Doc whispers, Semper Fi........
Thank you Steve G for your comment. Poignant words indeed. Thank you to your and your family's sacrifices, personal and professional while serving. I couldn't have said it better! Thanks for watching!
Being from the WNY area, I have been visiting the Buffalo Naval Park since I was a kid back in the 80's. I love the restyled park and museum as well as the Buffalo Inner-Harbor. The Croaker, The Sullivans and The Little Rock are flat out amazing. I recommend anyone watching this video to stop by and check this place out if you're in the Buffalo area.
Thanks so much for your endorsement, Shawn H. It's appreciated! For the coming 2022 season our ships will be open in full and for anyone interested in a "behind the scenes" tours, be on the lookout for our Curator Tour. These are special two hour tours of USS Little Rock in areas the public doesn't normally see.
@@BuffaloNavalPark I will definitely be stopping by to check that out. 9:10 The story about the Sullivan Brothers is still haunting and touching to me to this very day. Awesome video. We have such an awesome naval park here... Can't wait to visit again!
Always interested in info on the Fletcher class, especially the story of the USS Johnston and her valiant crew. Also interested in the Fletcher class as one of my cousins was the first CDR of the USS Porter DD 800. Thanks for the report.
Thanks for watching, Doug. When I saw the clips of USS Johnston, I looked at USS The Sullivans and said "people might appreciate what those areas look like on an intact ship". Appreciate your support!
Thanks for watching, and for your support, J Sullivan! Hope you check out our Bilge Snipes videos so you can see us plugging away on USS The Sullivans herself!
Thank You for those explanations on what parts of the wreckage of USS Johnston we are viewing. Very interesting comparisons to the USS Johnson and USS The Sullivans. I am also interested as a comparison of USS The Sullivans to the HMCS Haida. An American Fletcher Class destroyer to a British design Tribal Class. Specifications etc.
Thanks for watching! Interesting you should say that. We've done a comparison video with USS New Jersey and USS Slater. I have been speaking to the HMCS Haida in Canada. We were planning on a video in March, if you can believe it. Canada has imposed COVID standards that have not allowed staff to create the video yet. They said they should be better by July and we'll be creating a comparison video with them around that time! Thanks for supporting us. Hope you enjoy the other videos.
Historian 1942, thanks for watching the video and you're welcome! It was a lot of fun bringing that to you and our other watchers...and based on view count, it is by far our most popular video! Hope you check out our "28 in 28" video series, where I'm bringing our viewers\subscribers 28 videos in 28 days for the month of February! Appreciate your viewership and from your handle, your passion!
Thanks Sam. I'll have to have access to the wreck report. I'll begin looking to see if there is an eyewitness damage report for DD557 by those that survived the battle off Samar. It would be a very cool video to make! Thanks!
3:06 Can I just point out that the Fletcher class has two types of bridge designs, one is the round bridge and a good example is the USS Fletcher herself and then the square bridge design, and I believe the Johnston has the square bridge rather than the round bridge, anyways cool video comparing the Sullivans and the Johnston.
Thanks for watching. Yes, every Fletcher after USS Brownson, DD-518, including USS The Sullivans and USS Johnston carried the square bridge to help with sight lines, especially in the Pacific. Appreciate your comment and your support!
@@BuffaloNavalPark Thanks for the reply, I do really enjoy watching these kinds of videos in YT, since being a Naval enthusiast has stuck in me ever since I was kid, I just love to hear the stories of these magnificent ships has to offer, sadly only 1 second world war vintage warship is a museum in my country, the Ex-Cannon class Destroyer Escort USS Atherton DE-169 is slated to be preserved as a museum ship
@@YankEnjoyer I hope you enjoy PS-11 when she is decommissioned. Don't forget to check out our video that we did with the USS Slater, another Cannon Class DE here in America - the only one on display. Thanks for your support as always. Here's the joint video with the USS Slater: ruclips.net/video/DYfKHPg3Fug/видео.html
You're very welcome, Richard. Appreciate you watching and that you enjoy them! Be sure to check out the recently uploaded 6"47 barbette tour from USS Little Rock! Thanks for your support!
The air pressure couldn't have built enough to explode any water-tight compartments. The sea pressure may have imploded a few small compartments, but the ship had so many holes in it when it went down,I doubt that.
@@allangibson2408 Thanks for your comment. In the video with the USS Croaker and the sinking of USS Escolar I describer a bit about implosions on a submarine, and what most likely happens to the air and the souls inside. Appreciate your support!
@@snakes3425 That happened to USS Hammann, DD-412 and the explosion killed many who were in the water waiting to be rescued. Thanks for watching and your support snakes3425.
Interesting theory about air pressure shredding her aft. Another commenter, on the original footage posted by the Petrel team, posited that the shredding of the aft end of the ship was most likely from unsecured depth charges detonating. The ship was abandoned in a hurry, I believe even Robert Hagen was fearful that the depth charges would go off and kill them in the water. Survivors did report an underwater explosion after she sank, but not one that caused any deaths, thank god. Where on a WWII Fletcher were depth charges stored? Were they in the right place to cause that kind of damage? Another theory was a boiler blowing, but considering the damage she took, and that she fought half the battle with one fire room, that seems unlikely.
Thanks for your comments, Brendan H. Those are good thoughts. The depth charges are right on the back...there were two release tracks and two supply tracks. There were also K-Guns...depth charges that could be launched\propelled off the sides of the ships. So depending on the expenditures, they could have been full of charges. There was another destroyer that sank and the depth charge explosion killed many of the sailors who had survived the sinking. I think it was the USS Hammann, DD412. She was a Sims Class Destroyer. Thanks for your support!
Thanks for watching. In the original video which we pulled the footage (search: USS Johnston (DD-557) Discovery Latest Footage) I believe they mentioned that she was in the later Measure 21 - Navy Blue on verticals and Deck Blue on horizontals. I remember something about that's what tipped it off as USS Johnston as opposed to USS Hoel, which was NOT in Measure 21. USS The Sullivans was in the same scheme during WWII, based on photos and books. Appreciate your support!
The lightening holes do not make the structural members they are cut in stronger. They make them lighter without weakening the structure. HUGE difference.
I suspected the wreckage that was first found was from the aft section given the accounts of how she was sunk. For the aft end of the ship to be torn apart like this, either the aft compartments imploded violently, a magazine exploded or both to account for the wreckage the Petrel found.
Taras, thanks for watching and your support. It's amazing to hear how obliterated the aft section was, while as you can see in images, the bow is mainly intact, save for the damage she took fighting! Keep on following us for updates.
@@Mr.56Goldtop The guys from "Greyhound" came to do a site search, but since they wanted a near full WWII configuration, they went with USS Kidd because she is much closer to her WWII configuration. There was a BBB-Movie called "Crossbreed" with Vivica Fox filmed on USS Little Rock. Thanks again!
So appreciative that you took time to watch, Rick, thanks so much for your support! You're welcome...we mustn't forget the USS Johnston, USS Hoel, USS Samuel B. Roberts and the others of Taffy 3 for turning away the Japanese Center Force off Samar.
Appreciate the video, fascinating content. On a technical note, I would have shot your intro and close at another time or at some other location because the bird chirping in the background distracts from the information being presented.
Thanks for watching, and for your support! Ah, springtime in Buffalo brings a lot of chirping. I didn't detect that when filming. I'll pay better attention to that in future videos!
She's a beautiful ship! USS The Sullivans had three major arrangement configuations - 1945, 1951 and 1959, so she's a good representation of the changes from WWII through the Cold War period. USS Kidd is a pristine WWII ship as she hadn't been subject to conversions! Thanks for watching and your support!
Have a big question buffalo naval and military park. at the spot of the video 1:29 The model that you see on screen is a brickmania kit digital design of their Lego model of the USS Johnston. Did you guys know that or did you do that intentionally?
Sam, that's a great question. That was something our editor did. Unlike the Battleship NJ, we don't have our editor on staff, so she did that remotely. I do not know the origin of the model, if you know more please share! Thanks and stay well!
@@BuffaloNavalPark Until the discovery of the U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts, she was the deepest ship wreck yet found. Now the Samuel B. Roberts takes her place at a staggering 22,600 feet down. where the water pressure is a metal rending 11,000 pounds per square inch.
So, on The Sullivans we show the port side bitt and chock...and looking forward the bitts are aft of the chock. That's the opposite of what is shown in the Johnston video, so the wreckage that you're seeing is the starboard side. We show the starboard side briefly at 4:16 but the bitts have mooring lines attached. Thanks for watching! Hope you enjoyed!
The stern might have been destroyed by her depth charges going off. Even set on safe, it wasn’t unknown for them to explode when a DD sank. Famous example would be the USS Hammann at Midway.
Thanks for your comment! Appreciate your support. Those are included in the million and one things that can go wrong aboard a navy vessel! Underwater explosions are so very violent, and it killed survivors of the sinking waiting to be rescued! - 80 crew on eternal patrol.
According to quoted narrative by survivors of the Johnson (ref "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour"; Hornfischer and Whitener), safeties were set. The book does cite coment(s) by survivors in the water experience effects of two post-sinking explosions. However, only conjecture re depth charges not having safeties set or boilers. I'll suggest the possibility of some ordinance "cooking off". I'll guess that only a close forensic inspection of the wreck might yield evidence as to cause.
@@jimpiper5297 Thanks for your comment. That's a great book, and I can't remember specific passages out of it. What we can be sure about is it was chaos during those few minutes after the ship sank. I wish there was a photographic record of her sinking.
Very interesting thought. I don't know if they would have been set, but maybe the depth could have set one off accidentally. Certainly, John's point in the video IE: the ship split and the air rushed into the stern, while the air rushed out of the bow could also cause that kind of devastation in the stern while leaving the bow mostly intact is very valid too. Thanks for watching!
@@BuffaloNavalPark In the book "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" I believe it is said that some of Johnston's depth charges did go off after she sank if not Johnston.
@@kbfbest Thanks for the update! I read that book more than a couple of years ago, and don't remember that point! But, at a certain depth you'd think the Mark VI's and the Mark IX's would both succumb to the pressures of the deep. Thanks for contributing, and for watching!
What about one or more of the boilers exploding? I imagine after being riddled with 8 and 14-inch shells, she sank very rapidly and that could have led to water contacting the still very hot boilers. Certainly ammunition could have also exploded due to the many fires that had to been present throughout the ship due to the Japanese shelling her.
@@taraswertelecki3786 Those are all very valid thoughts, Taras! I'll just say it's probably all of the above. From the footage I could see more from midships forward and the deck house. That could have offered a clue as to the fate of the forward fire room, as it's located underneath the deck house. If there was catastrophic loss in the midships that would certainly lend credence. Thanks for your comments and support!
One thing I have heard discussed in relation to ships that have broken in half when sinking, is that water can rush through the hull if there are openings on both ends. With a small hole or holes on the upper (up in relation to how the ship sinks, small simply being relative to whatever the other end looks like) end, this can force that area open more, with a force from the inside working its way out. Air is not the only thing that can "blow out" or "blow open" a section of the ship while it is sinking. (though it might be more accurate to describe it as being "forced open" when talking about damage caused by water) I have also heard people discuss what happens prior to crush depth, especially when talking heavily damaged ships. That as the ship sinks, the pressure of an air pocket pushing outwards will increase, potentially exploding outwards through a weakened area. The explanation for this is said to be air being pushed deeper into the pocket thus increasing the outward pressure of the pocket, as former parts of the air pocket are flooded as water is being pushed up into them from the descent of the wreckage. Simply said the pressure of the water on the pocket is too weak to stop the pressure of the compressed air at shallower depths. This can apparently work in conjunction with the first thing I said, i.e. pressure outwards opens up a small hole, the pocket is then filled with water which then forces the hole open wider as the ship descends. Keep in mind that depending on the depth, the length of time it takes can actually be several minutes before a ship hits bottom, all of that metal has to push water out of the way, air pockets or no air pockets, limiting the speed greatly as compared to freefall in atmosphere. A lot of the simulations and observation of damage on known wrecks which I have seen, show that the speed they impact the bottom with, is something akin to what a car might do on the highway (legally), or even slower. This can limit the force of the water moving through the hull, but also make it happen for a lot longer than you would otherwise think it would. Both of those phenomena adding to the overall dynamic in their own ways. Of course this relies on the watertight nature of any watertight compartments being compromised. However.... If a ship does not sink in a level manner like you see with a controlled sinking, and ends up standing either on its bow or stern, along with the horizontal stresses on the hull now being vertical, the same is true for everything attached to the hull, bulkheads and whatnot, both inside and out, which includes a lot of very heavy things, which can then detach from their mounting positions and do all sorts of damage to the formerly vertical bulkheads. Depending on things like weight, amount of water moving through the hull during descent, length of time in its descent you can get things moving this way or that way. This is just meant to talk about what _can_ happen in a sinking, not what _did_ happen in any one instance. There are some pretty good scientific papers and simulations about what happens to what parts of different ships in different sinkings out there. But specific instances are beyond the scope of what I am talking about here (also, the ones I have seen are about the biggest and most famous ships that have gone down, like liners and battleships, so how relevant they are to a destroyer is a big question). As this are just some general things that can happen from what I have read and heard people discuss. The actual dynamics of a ship sinking are a fascinating topic in and of itself, and are unique to each and every case, since no sinking is identical to any other, there are always some variations. Some may be nearly identical, but not totally. edit: fixed the grammar a little
I think Lewis Tayor's explanation is a valid one in the sense that there are so many things that occur. The submarines that have imploded - like the USS Thresher and USS Scorpion, while they imploded, the wrecks are scattered pieces everywhere. I can't say I'm an expert, but if implosions cause a ship or sub to instantly collapse on themselves, when it reaches that point of equalization, it then just falls apart. One of the things I learned when I was doing the "USS Croaker and USS Escolar" video on our Channel, was that usually the first thing to go is the Sub Sail, because the pressure hull collapses and rips the welds and joint apart. Thanks! For me, this requires more study!
You can see the depth charge holders mounted along the edge of the deck and there would have been 2 bigger racks of depth charges right on the stern if any were not turned to the safe position (during the war they would have been armed while at sea) then you get a rather large explosion when they reach their set depth which at that time would probably be several hundred feet. Tearing the rear of the ship apart.
Sometimes people ask us what that means. John did a great job of explaining...I would prefer "lightning holes"...then we can claim she's out of a Sci-Fi story! Thanks for watching!
I strongly recommend reading "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour"; Hornfischer and Whitener, the historical account of Taffey 3 and the Battle off the Philippine Island of Samar. INCREDIBLE story of bravery.
I'm proud to have been a tin can sailor (2 DEs and a Gearing class DD). I only would hope that I might have had a smidgen of the bravery of these men. To those 186 who perished: "Stand relieved, men, we have the watch."
Thanks for your sacrifices, Jim, personal and professional while you were serving. Taffy 3 is an incredible story. If put in that situation, men from any time period would have done their duty. It must have been exhilarating and terrifying at the same time. Like the submarine service, we can only imagine the crew was molded in Evans' image and emulated his personality. Thanks for watching, and your support!
@@BuffaloNavalPark thank you for your comment.
USS Theodore E Chandler DD717
Member, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
Vietnam
@@jimpiper5297 We have a Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club Patch on display from USS Providence. Thank you again, Sir!
I suggest watching Battle 360 Japanese Navy Defeated at the Battle of Leyte Gulf (S1, E9)
ruclips.net/video/uJymARs8o0Q/видео.html
@@eb311235 I highly recommend that series brought to you by Enterprise Rent a Car - - named after the ship! It's a very good series, and thanks for sharing. I haven't watched that series in about four years, so maybe it's time to give it another viewing! Thanks as always, Mostly Sane!
My grandfather was the cook on Johnston. He told me the story!
While I want to say what a story it must have been, I can't imagine the terror and horror he experienced that day. Losing your home, and 56% of your shipmates to the sea is...unimaginable. Appreciate your support, and thanks for watching!
That's amazing!
Your grandfather and his shipmates are an inspiration.
Thank you for putting into perspective what we saw on the ocean floor.
As our SupShips says in the video, there's no perspective, so we knew we had to make that happen. Glad you enjoyed the video!
I hate to repeat what somebody else said but again thanks for helping us make sense of this I remember seeing the petrel video of the debris at a higher depth and thinking the poor Johnston was just blown apart there's nothing left of it and then the bow section of the wreckage was found
I'm happy the ship wasn't completely obliterated and that the men who sacrificed their lives to have more of a memorial upon the ocean floor than just a few shreds of wreckage.
Well said, Jeh B. To see the bow with her guns trained to starboard (and no doubt blazing away) above the proud 557, is a sight to behold. They did their duty to the last full measure! Thanks for watching!
@@BuffaloNavalPark
The men of Taffy-3 literally charged into certain death and yet they stopped a Japanese fleet several times more powerful than they were
The single selfless act save d tens of thousands possibly hundreds of thousands of lives in the Philippines campaign
@@jehb8945 Well said! Medal of Honor for Cmd. Evans and Presidential Unit Citation for the Task Group are extremely well deserved!
Good to see SCPO Branning . I recall a cold November Saturday he donated his time providing a personal tour of DD-537 before closing the ship for the season.
Thanks! He just retired in September 2021 and was my mentor here. He's missed. We do have a video called "Hail to the (Senior) Chief where I interview him for 20 minutes or so on his time here at the Naval Park and other things. You might enjoy it. Thanks for watching and for your comments.
I am 5th generation Navy. Served 10 years Greenside Corpsman. I was 12 when The Sullivans came to Buffalo. My dad brought my brothers and I many times. The Johnston was part of a thesis I did as a history minor in college on the battle in Leyte Gulf. Her story was then repeated to us in boot camp. Taffy-3 had absolutely no business going up against the vessels they did. Yet they did so knowing the cost would be high.
For the Fallen-
Stand down now good and faithful servants. Your long watch is over. We have the Conn now. Go rest high on that mountain brothers. Be at ease, Rest in Honored Peace. Go forth and war no more. God's Speed and God bless. Prayers for your families and friends. Prayers for those still on watch. Fair Winds and Following Seas Brothers.
And one more time this old Doc whispers,
Semper Fi........
Thank you Steve G for your comment. Poignant words indeed. Thank you to your and your family's sacrifices, personal and professional while serving. I couldn't have said it better! Thanks for watching!
Being from the WNY area, I have been visiting the Buffalo Naval Park since I was a kid back in the 80's. I love the restyled park and museum as well as the Buffalo Inner-Harbor. The Croaker, The Sullivans and The Little Rock are flat out amazing. I recommend anyone watching this video to stop by and check this place out if you're in the Buffalo area.
Thanks so much for your endorsement, Shawn H. It's appreciated! For the coming 2022 season our ships will be open in full and for anyone interested in a "behind the scenes" tours, be on the lookout for our Curator Tour. These are special two hour tours of USS Little Rock in areas the public doesn't normally see.
@@BuffaloNavalPark I will definitely be stopping by to check that out. 9:10 The story about the Sullivan Brothers is still haunting and touching to me to this very day. Awesome video. We have such an awesome naval park here... Can't wait to visit again!
Always interested in info on the Fletcher class, especially the story of the USS Johnston and her valiant crew. Also interested in the Fletcher class as one of my cousins was the first CDR of the USS Porter DD 800. Thanks for the report.
Thanks for your support. The Tin Can Sailors were definitely a different breed, out of necessity! Thanks for your support!
Fascinating video. Really appreciate the detail. Thanks
Thanks for watching, Doug. When I saw the clips of USS Johnston, I looked at USS The Sullivans and said "people might appreciate what those areas look like on an intact ship". Appreciate your support!
As a Sullivan, I take great interest in this. Thank you for keeping history alive. :)
Thanks for watching, and for your support, J Sullivan! Hope you check out our Bilge Snipes videos so you can see us plugging away on USS The Sullivans herself!
Great video she thought she was a Battleship
Thanks Kirk. Ships take on the personality of the Captain, and Evans thought he was a battleship! Ha!
@@BuffaloNavalPark I think the whole crew did!
Here from History X.
Great! Thanks for your support! I really enjoyed working with History X.
Excellent and well done gentleman.
Thanks for watching and your support, Charles! We try our best!
Thank You for those explanations on what parts of the wreckage of USS Johnston we are viewing. Very interesting comparisons to the USS Johnson and USS The Sullivans. I am also interested as a comparison of USS The Sullivans to the HMCS Haida. An American Fletcher Class destroyer to a British design Tribal Class. Specifications etc.
Thanks for watching! Interesting you should say that. We've done a comparison video with USS New Jersey and USS Slater. I have been speaking to the HMCS Haida in Canada. We were planning on a video in March, if you can believe it. Canada has imposed COVID standards that have not allowed staff to create the video yet. They said they should be better by July and we'll be creating a comparison video with them around that time! Thanks for supporting us. Hope you enjoy the other videos.
@@BuffaloNavalPark Thank You. Looking forward to it.
Johnston*
its USS Johnston DD-557
I must say it was a informative and interesting video. Thanks guys koz
You're so very welcome, Koz! Glad you enjoyed it! Our partnership with Ken and History X is great!
Thanks for the video !
Greetings.
Historian 1942, thanks for watching the video and you're welcome! It was a lot of fun bringing that to you and our other watchers...and based on view count, it is by far our most popular video! Hope you check out our "28 in 28" video series, where I'm bringing our viewers\subscribers 28 videos in 28 days for the month of February! Appreciate your viewership and from your handle, your passion!
I think a high ranking video would be marking each place on the sullivan where the johnston got hit
Thanks Sam. I'll have to have access to the wreck report. I'll begin looking to see if there is an eyewitness damage report for DD557 by those that survived the battle off Samar. It would be a very cool video to make! Thanks!
Very interesting, good work!
Thanks so much! We were excited about making this video for those interested! Glad you enjoyed!
3:06 Can I just point out that the Fletcher class has two types of bridge designs, one is the round bridge and a good example is the USS Fletcher herself and then the square bridge design, and I believe the Johnston has the square bridge rather than the round bridge, anyways cool video comparing the Sullivans and the Johnston.
Thanks for watching. Yes, every Fletcher after USS Brownson, DD-518, including USS The Sullivans and USS Johnston carried the square bridge to help with sight lines, especially in the Pacific. Appreciate your comment and your support!
@@BuffaloNavalPark Thanks for the reply, I do really enjoy watching these kinds of videos in YT, since being a Naval enthusiast has stuck in me ever since I was kid, I just love to hear the stories of these magnificent ships has to offer, sadly only 1 second world war vintage warship is a museum in my country, the Ex-Cannon class Destroyer Escort USS Atherton DE-169 is slated to be preserved as a museum ship
@@YankEnjoyer I hope you enjoy PS-11 when she is decommissioned. Don't forget to check out our video that we did with the USS Slater, another Cannon Class DE here in America - the only one on display. Thanks for your support as always. Here's the joint video with the USS Slater: ruclips.net/video/DYfKHPg3Fug/видео.html
appreciate you and your knowledge..!
Thanks TWeb! Appreciate your comment and that you enjoyed it!
Thank you, gentlemen! Very interesting and educational.
You're very welcome, Richard. Appreciate you watching and that you enjoy them! Be sure to check out the recently uploaded 6"47 barbette tour from USS Little Rock! Thanks for your support!
The air pressure couldn't have built enough to explode any water-tight compartments. The sea pressure may have imploded a few small compartments, but the ship had so many holes in it when it went down,I doubt that.
Thanks for your well thought out response, R.D. Riddle. Unfortunately, we will never truly know...your thoughts are good ones!
Sinking ships implode not explode. Implosions fold metal.
Explosives inside change that calculation.
@@allangibson2408 Thanks for your comment. In the video with the USS Croaker and the sinking of USS Escolar I describer a bit about implosions on a submarine, and what most likely happens to the air and the souls inside. Appreciate your support!
I would also say a probable cause was that the depth charges detonated as the ship was sinking
@@snakes3425 That happened to USS Hammann, DD-412 and the explosion killed many who were in the water waiting to be rescued. Thanks for watching and your support snakes3425.
Interesting theory about air pressure shredding her aft.
Another commenter, on the original footage posted by the Petrel team, posited that the shredding of the aft end of the ship was most likely from unsecured depth charges detonating. The ship was abandoned in a hurry, I believe even Robert Hagen was fearful that the depth charges would go off and kill them in the water. Survivors did report an underwater explosion after she sank, but not one that caused any deaths, thank god. Where on a WWII Fletcher were depth charges stored? Were they in the right place to cause that kind of damage?
Another theory was a boiler blowing, but considering the damage she took, and that she fought half the battle with one fire room, that seems unlikely.
Thanks for your comments, Brendan H. Those are good thoughts. The depth charges are right on the back...there were two release tracks and two supply tracks. There were also K-Guns...depth charges that could be launched\propelled off the sides of the ships. So depending on the expenditures, they could have been full of charges. There was another destroyer that sank and the depth charge explosion killed many of the sailors who had survived the sinking. I think it was the USS Hammann, DD412. She was a Sims Class Destroyer. Thanks for your support!
Thank you well done and respectful
Thanks for watching, Robert! Glad to see you liked the video. Appreciate your support!
Wow great job thanks guys 👍
Thanks for watching, Jim! Appreciate it, and glad you got some good information from it!
Does the wreck indicate which camouflage measure she was painted in? Was it Measure 21? Or a Dazzle?
Thanks for watching. In the original video which we pulled the footage (search: USS Johnston (DD-557) Discovery Latest Footage) I believe they mentioned that she was in the later Measure 21 - Navy Blue on verticals and Deck Blue on horizontals. I remember something about that's what tipped it off as USS Johnston as opposed to USS Hoel, which was NOT in Measure 21. USS The Sullivans was in the same scheme during WWII, based on photos and books. Appreciate your support!
@@BuffaloNavalPark many thanks!!!
The lightening holes do not make the structural members they are cut in stronger. They make them lighter without weakening the structure. HUGE difference.
Thanks for watching and your comment, Salty Pirate. Appreciate you pointing out the difference.
I suspected the wreckage that was first found was from the aft section given the accounts of how she was sunk. For the aft end of the ship to be torn apart like this, either the aft compartments imploded violently, a magazine exploded or both to account for the wreckage the Petrel found.
Taras, thanks for watching and your support. It's amazing to hear how obliterated the aft section was, while as you can see in images, the bow is mainly intact, save for the damage she took fighting! Keep on following us for updates.
That's really cool that we have a ship that is nearly identical. It gives a much better perspective.
Thanks for watching! Yes, our ship has been used for these Fletcher comparisons before. Appreciate it!
@@BuffaloNavalPark Has it ever been used in any movies?
@@Mr.56Goldtop The guys from "Greyhound" came to do a site search, but since they wanted a near full WWII configuration, they went with USS Kidd because she is much closer to her WWII configuration. There was a BBB-Movie called "Crossbreed" with Vivica Fox filmed on USS Little Rock. Thanks again!
I served on a fletcher class DD 686 Halsey Powel in 1963. Stationed in San Diago Ca. Comm. In 43.
Thanks for watching, Garnett! Hope you enjoy the channel, and a look back at the same class as you served on. Appreciate it!
Great video thank you 😊
So appreciative that you took time to watch, Rick, thanks so much for your support! You're welcome...we mustn't forget the USS Johnston, USS Hoel, USS Samuel B. Roberts and the others of Taffy 3 for turning away the Japanese Center Force off Samar.
Fascinating stuff, thank you.
Thanks for watching, Sparkey. Be sure to check out our other fascinating videos...well, at least we think they're fascinating! Best.
Appreciate the video, fascinating content. On a technical note, I would have shot your intro and close at another time or at some other location because the bird chirping in the background distracts from the information being presented.
Thanks for watching, and for your support! Ah, springtime in Buffalo brings a lot of chirping. I didn't detect that when filming. I'll pay better attention to that in future videos!
Toured the USS Kidd in Baton Rouge .. wish I had known some of this at that time
She's a beautiful ship! USS The Sullivans had three major arrangement configuations - 1945, 1951 and 1959, so she's a good representation of the changes from WWII through the Cold War period. USS Kidd is a pristine WWII ship as she hadn't been subject to conversions! Thanks for watching and your support!
Yeah; now I need to visit KIDD again, as well.
@@petesheppard1709 Say hello to the SupShips down there, Tim. He's a great and knowledgeable guy!
@@BuffaloNavalPark👍
@@BuffaloNavalPark also named for the first Flag Officer killed in WWII Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd, who was killed when the USS Arizona exploded
Have a big question buffalo naval and military park. at the spot of the video 1:29 The model that you see on screen is a brickmania kit digital design of their Lego model of the USS Johnston. Did you guys know that or did you do that intentionally?
Sam, that's a great question. That was something our editor did. Unlike the Battleship NJ, we don't have our editor on staff, so she did that remotely. I do not know the origin of the model, if you know more please share! Thanks and stay well!
the USS Johnston her main wreckage lies at a depth of 21,180 feet below the surface
Deepest wreck every located if I'm not mistaken!
yes she is@@BuffaloNavalPark
@@BuffaloNavalPark Until the discovery of the U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts, she was the deepest ship wreck yet found. Now the Samuel B. Roberts takes her place at a staggering 22,600 feet down. where the water pressure is a metal rending 11,000 pounds per square inch.
The bit and chalk (sp?) wreckage is off of the starboard side? At least is seems to be when compared to the orientation of The Sullivan.
So, on The Sullivans we show the port side bitt and chock...and looking forward the bitts are aft of the chock. That's the opposite of what is shown in the Johnston video, so the wreckage that you're seeing is the starboard side. We show the starboard side briefly at 4:16 but the bitts have mooring lines attached. Thanks for watching! Hope you enjoyed!
The stern might have been destroyed by her depth charges going off. Even set on safe, it wasn’t unknown for them to explode when a DD sank. Famous example would be the USS Hammann at Midway.
Thanks for your comment! Appreciate your support. Those are included in the million and one things that can go wrong aboard a navy vessel! Underwater explosions are so very violent, and it killed survivors of the sinking waiting to be rescued! - 80 crew on eternal patrol.
According to quoted narrative by survivors of the Johnson (ref "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour"; Hornfischer and Whitener), safeties were set. The book does cite coment(s) by survivors in the water experience effects of two post-sinking explosions. However, only conjecture re depth charges not having safeties set or boilers. I'll suggest the possibility of some ordinance "cooking off". I'll guess that only a close forensic inspection of the wreck might yield evidence as to cause.
@@jimpiper5297 Thanks for your comment. That's a great book, and I can't remember specific passages out of it. What we can be sure about is it was chaos during those few minutes after the ship sank. I wish there was a photographic record of her sinking.
@@jimpiper5297 Exactly. I’m going to miss Hornfischer.
I keep wondering if one or more depth charges were left live and went off as she sank.
Very interesting thought. I don't know if they would have been set, but maybe the depth could have set one off accidentally. Certainly, John's point in the video IE: the ship split and the air rushed into the stern, while the air rushed out of the bow could also cause that kind of devastation in the stern while leaving the bow mostly intact is very valid too. Thanks for watching!
@@BuffaloNavalPark In the book "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" I believe it is said that some of Johnston's depth charges did go off after she sank if not Johnston.
@@kbfbest Thanks for the update! I read that book more than a couple of years ago, and don't remember that point! But, at a certain depth you'd think the Mark VI's and the Mark IX's would both succumb to the pressures of the deep. Thanks for contributing, and for watching!
What about one or more of the boilers exploding? I imagine after being riddled with 8 and 14-inch shells, she sank very rapidly and that could have led to water contacting the still very hot boilers. Certainly ammunition could have also exploded due to the many fires that had to been present throughout the ship due to the Japanese shelling her.
@@taraswertelecki3786 Those are all very valid thoughts, Taras! I'll just say it's probably all of the above. From the footage I could see more from midships forward and the deck house. That could have offered a clue as to the fate of the forward fire room, as it's located underneath the deck house. If there was catastrophic loss in the midships that would certainly lend credence. Thanks for your comments and support!
Logic is valid
Thank you, Ben. Sometimes we try to place logic on a very illogical event, 80 years after the fact. Glad we're succeeding.
05:12 He says "it blew open". That's impossible, since it was under pressure. It would have imploded.
One thing I have heard discussed in relation to ships that have broken in half when sinking, is that water can rush through the hull if there are openings on both ends. With a small hole or holes on the upper (up in relation to how the ship sinks, small simply being relative to whatever the other end looks like) end, this can force that area open more, with a force from the inside working its way out. Air is not the only thing that can "blow out" or "blow open" a section of the ship while it is sinking. (though it might be more accurate to describe it as being "forced open" when talking about damage caused by water)
I have also heard people discuss what happens prior to crush depth, especially when talking heavily damaged ships. That as the ship sinks, the pressure of an air pocket pushing outwards will increase, potentially exploding outwards through a weakened area. The explanation for this is said to be air being pushed deeper into the pocket thus increasing the outward pressure of the pocket, as former parts of the air pocket are flooded as water is being pushed up into them from the descent of the wreckage. Simply said the pressure of the water on the pocket is too weak to stop the pressure of the compressed air at shallower depths. This can apparently work in conjunction with the first thing I said, i.e. pressure outwards opens up a small hole, the pocket is then filled with water which then forces the hole open wider as the ship descends.
Keep in mind that depending on the depth, the length of time it takes can actually be several minutes before a ship hits bottom, all of that metal has to push water out of the way, air pockets or no air pockets, limiting the speed greatly as compared to freefall in atmosphere. A lot of the simulations and observation of damage on known wrecks which I have seen, show that the speed they impact the bottom with, is something akin to what a car might do on the highway (legally), or even slower. This can limit the force of the water moving through the hull, but also make it happen for a lot longer than you would otherwise think it would. Both of those phenomena adding to the overall dynamic in their own ways.
Of course this relies on the watertight nature of any watertight compartments being compromised. However....
If a ship does not sink in a level manner like you see with a controlled sinking, and ends up standing either on its bow or stern, along with the horizontal stresses on the hull now being vertical, the same is true for everything attached to the hull, bulkheads and whatnot, both inside and out, which includes a lot of very heavy things, which can then detach from their mounting positions and do all sorts of damage to the formerly vertical bulkheads. Depending on things like weight, amount of water moving through the hull during descent, length of time in its descent you can get things moving this way or that way.
This is just meant to talk about what _can_ happen in a sinking, not what _did_ happen in any one instance.
There are some pretty good scientific papers and simulations about what happens to what parts of different ships in different sinkings out there. But specific instances are beyond the scope of what I am talking about here (also, the ones I have seen are about the biggest and most famous ships that have gone down, like liners and battleships, so how relevant they are to a destroyer is a big question). As this are just some general things that can happen from what I have read and heard people discuss.
The actual dynamics of a ship sinking are a fascinating topic in and of itself, and are unique to each and every case, since no sinking is identical to any other, there are always some variations. Some may be nearly identical, but not totally.
edit: fixed the grammar a little
I think Lewis Tayor's explanation is a valid one in the sense that there are so many things that occur. The submarines that have imploded - like the USS Thresher and USS Scorpion, while they imploded, the wrecks are scattered pieces everywhere. I can't say I'm an expert, but if implosions cause a ship or sub to instantly collapse on themselves, when it reaches that point of equalization, it then just falls apart. One of the things I learned when I was doing the "USS Croaker and USS Escolar" video on our Channel, was that usually the first thing to go is the Sub Sail, because the pressure hull collapses and rips the welds and joint apart. Thanks! For me, this requires more study!
You can see the depth charge holders mounted along the edge of the deck and there would have been 2 bigger racks of depth charges right on the stern if any were not turned to the safe position (during the war they would have been armed while at sea) then you get a rather large explosion when they reach their set depth which at that time would probably be several hundred feet. Tearing the rear of the ship apart.
6:29. They are “lightening holes” not “lightning holes” fyi......
Thanks for your comment, balsumfractus - just like John said in the video...he called them "lightening" holes! Thanks for watching and your support!
USS Johnston, when a ship gets rabies.
It was a Mad Dog ship for sure!
sharing
Awesome!
They almost lost the USS the Sullivans at the battle of New Jersey. Due to 'corrosion and rust :)
Very true, Boz. But as we saw during WWII and beyond, these Fletchers don't give themselves up easily! Thanks for watching!
Lightening not lightning 😂
Sometimes people ask us what that means. John did a great job of explaining...I would prefer "lightning holes"...then we can claim she's out of a Sci-Fi story! Thanks for watching!
@@BuffaloNavalPark gotta love English
Never let a useless mask dangle from your ear. Wearing a mask is pointless, but dangling one looks Dorky.
Appreciate your concern, thanks!
Excellent and well done gentleman.
Thanks for watching, and appreciate your kind comment! Keep checking out the channel for other videos!