Good try @The Tesla Space, but not quite "everything." Adding to @Juanjo & @Joseph Townsend, in addition to the reasons they stated below, tabless are dendrite resistant. That means 4680s (regardless of chemistry) can charge/discharge in broader ranges before incurring life shortening internal damage when compared to (VW, Porche, GM, Ford, BMW, et al) pouch & prismatic packs. Inside of 5 years, that may be the main point of buyers' regret for those who were clueless at the time of purchase (& once well known, will give TSLA yet another exponential lift). Sorry ICE-wannabe-EV & other Tesla-envious makers, this won't be the last of the unending cavalcade of TeSlaps y'all have in store!! 🤣🤣🤣
U forget one thing. if solid state comes in. then it will be tesla who makes this real. and this would also lvl up batteries of tesla. so if this really gives 30% more range. then tesla would get to a lvl all others cant even dream of. today they have have range models with 600km. so +30% would be 780. and this is with current gen batteries. new ones comming soon with even more range. for the price of model 3 this is really good. and soon model 2 will release.
@@Crunch_dGH Please explain where you got your information. Dendrite formation is internal to the battery and occurs on the anode in liquid electrolyte batteries under abnormal operating conditions like overcharging, low temperatures etc where Li ions cannot be readily absorbed. The 4680 battery is a liquid electrolyte so how does the lack of external tabs stop dendrite formation? The key to Lithium battery life is Thermal Management of the batteries and their packs in the range 25degC to 35degC - Tesla has problems here with their 18650 and 2170 packs which is why the charge acceptance rate of these packs is deliberately "throttled" and starts of high at low SOC like 5% and then pretty much drops of linearly as SOC rises. Also why these packs need pre-heating before a significant Supercharger event and need a cool-down phase when you've been hard at the throttle. Compare this to an Audi e-tron that has excellent thermal management and so can charge consistently flat at 150kW from 0% to 80% SOC! and no need for heat up or cool down. I'm an Electrical Engineer by the way and while not an expert in batteries I know a little about battery electro-chemistry.
Exactly. Actually 5.5x bigger which actually means slight decrease (roughly 10%) in energy density. That said - it is reasonable compromise to regain that loss elsewhere and gain different advantages (cost, charging speed).
Video creators really should avoid these mistakes. More power is not the same as energy density. 10 kw running for 1 hour delivers more power (oomph) than 1KW running for 10 hours. But both have the same energy density.
Great Video. The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is next to the country you highlighted. You've selected the Republic of the Congo (Capital Brazzaville). The DRC is the massive one in the middle of Africa. It's confusing, I know - but don't just google Congo and be done with it. There's quite a bit of history behind that.
@@mateilicaret2904 bullshit. People buy that stuff and sell it on amazon and ebay with a 10 times markup. And then they buy fake reviews. Dont trust America.
The real benefit of the "tabless" design (of course you have a tab, but it's a continuous tab along the edge of the roll) is that the electrons do not have to pass through one specific point to enter/exit the battery cell, they can flow through that continuous tab which means less heat generated during the use of the battery hence more efficiency and faster charge rates. PS: Great video, I really enjoyed it! :)
It also means the current doesn’t need to travel the whole length of the media. So 79mm instead of 3M for example. Therefore reducing its own resistance and like you’ve said,this reduces heat.
Even he misunderstand what is the tab-less design :) People still do not understand why this heat so important Heat is very energy expensive. To heat up 500kg mass with 10 degree, you will need about 3kwh energy(this is only raw estimation, depend on which material we talking, but possibly it will be between 2.7-3.5kwh/10degree) Tesla's cars possibly will be able to reach 10-13 kwh/100km with this new battery design.
I sold my 2017 Volt and bought a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR. Why??? so many reasons, no one competes with Tesla. GM service issues are Horrific, maybe one tech per dealer. No one has charging network like Tesla. Better batteries, better support, better range better charging, proven tech, online updates, proven charging network. Maybe in 5 years other manufactures will get closer
Man, your reasoning is crystal clear and straightforward 👍. I would like to learn about all of your proposals. Keep on going the way you go, love your channel, presenting and content coverage.
“Everyone just thumbs up the mean comment, thumbs up the video, and let’s all just move on....” LOL! that comment got me to subscribe to your channel right there.
Two other comments did the trick for me - the one about the (busy) scientist, and the one of simply piling doubling up the same (ineficient) old idea "and they call that a solution"😝😝
VW are one of the best ICE businesses and Herbert Deiss gets on well with Musk and is unashamedly chasing Tesla to be one of the best BEV makers. Their plan for 2030 is as good as they can see at the moment. It's very brave of them actually. I used to own their shares but... Y'know, sold to buy more Tesla. Tesla won't buy any legacy maker until all the baggage of their old ice is gone. No factories to mothball or demolish, no factories to try to reconfigure into two, three or even four floors for maximum efficiency (look at the drone videos), no pension liabilities to cover, no contaminated ground to clear, no unions to negotiate redundancies with. Why would you bog yourself down in all that s#'t when you're out in front, on your own?
How can we screw the consumer? I know, lets integrate the battery pack into the frame so when the batteries go bad, they'll have to buy a new car since battery/frame replacement will cost too much. Also lets keep on refusing to sell our parts or car repair manuals to Tesla owners.
The meaning of the tabless design was miss leading. The tab that is eliminated is internal. Instead of having a sheet of material with a narrow tab extending from 1 place on the edge, to handle all of the currant. The entire edge has short slits, that are folded over on each other to supply power equaly from the entire sheet, rather than from 1 tab in the middle or an end.
I noticed the same, and the map of Africa did not show the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but the Republic of the Congo, also known as Congo Brazzaville.
Well just the cell production isn’t that telling as long as VW can buy cells from elsewhere...I think it’s more a long stretch goal to get patents on technology too and have the capacity to produce some yourself.
If we had 20% electric vehicles I do not think he US electrical grid can handle it, especially during a hot summer when A/C demand is very high. How is the effect of running the A/C in a Tesla ? How much affect on range ? 10 % 20% reduction?
All the car companies need to make the battery packs replaceable with next gen battery packs. It needs to be pre-designed into to chassis: that the old battery pack can be removed, and a new battery pack easily installed. This will allow for the future adaptation of the car to new battery technology. This will save costs and improve adoption by the public.
No, the main point of the tabless design is to improve thermal management, which permits larger and more efficient battery size, as well as longer battery life over a greater number of cycles. It’s slightly less simple to produce, not easier.
Tabs have to be welded as an extra manufacturing step so doing away with this tab does away with the robot and time needed to weld on the tab. It also cuts down on individual cell defects where shocks could make tab welds fail and thus that cell useless. Tabs also act as a bottle neck because all the electrons moving off the roll of foil in the cell have to flow through one small tab, the new design does away with this bottleneck making the battery more efficient. The footprint of the new battery machine is much less so you can increase the capacity with more machines over the same floor space. It's a win, win, win, win situation.
@@Martin-se3ij YES! Thanks for pointing out the facts. This video grossly missed the mark about the tabless design. (For that and other inaccuracies, I'm not giving this video a thumbs up.) The 4680 dimensions and structural battery pack are both dependent upon that tabless design to reduce the bottleneck and heat and allow the required strong rigid epoxy in between the cells (rather than instead requiring liquid cooling, which provides no structural rigidity). I think of the tabless design as just the opposite ... as it's really fully-tabbed (from end to end in the coil) rather than having only that one tab that becomes a hot bottleneck.
Is these batteries are safe? If in case of accident these batteries could get explode or get fire? If it is then its not safe to use in moving vehicles.
Great explanation but Tesla isn't finished developing battery ideas and the 4680 is up and running. If something better is developed Tesla will grab it! Their money isn't tied up in "Ice" production as all the "big" car companies are.
When traditional ICE manufacturers do produce decent EVs, their franchised dealers don't want to stock them and will do anything possible to steer buyers back to legacy models.
As a general presentation about batteries, I would have liked to see the comparison with BYD's batteries, including the new Blade Battery model. It's a shame you left them out
From what I understand the Roadster had standard Lithium-cobalt batteries which is what you find in laptops. With the Model S, Tesla moved to a nickel-cobalt-aluminum battery from Panasonic. They added some manganese after a few years to the formula and cut the amount of cobalt.
Another great video. As for an upcoming video on what could or maybe or might happen, one thing that waists a lot of time is listening to someone guess. If you have no facts on VW wanting to be bought out by Tesla, which I'm sure isn't true, please don't talk about it. Thanks
Interesting video, but I can't help but feel like some puzzle pieces are missing as there is no information on how the different battery pack choices (cylindrical vs prismatic for example) can influence the battery management system. Isn't the battery management system for a tesla more expensive?
with a cylindrical batterie you loose about 27% of usable area compared to a square design. Just that simple. What about the change of a Tesla battery in case of a defect? do you have to change the hole basis? And, if the solid state technology gets a capacity upgrade, you're able to change the package.
Lithium iron phosphate cells are less energy dense than Li-ion, but a major advantage they do have is no thermal runaway, no risk of a battery fire in an accident.
it is not just the cost of making a square over a cylinder. a square with a volume of 1000 has a surface area of 600 a cylinder with a volume of 1000 has a surface area of 558 so it uses less material
4:14 5 times more energy density? That is little unreal (I am no expert) but on battery day the presentation said 5 times more energy, meaning the new bigger cell can output more energy at once. I thought energy density would rise about 10% or so. So how is it?
So what is the timeline for the battery changes in the Y? If the range increases 16% from 326mi to 378mi that would be better but not a ground breaking improvement.
What crap, the 4680 is not 5x the Energy Density - even Elon Musk said it has comparable energy density to 2170. It is supposedly easier to pack more into a “battery pack”. Either this is just Clickbait or Tesla fandom gone to illogical conclusions.
In 1922, my father started work at 12 years old for the British government. He worked as a messenger boy for the Post Office, educated himself to degree level and worked his way up to become a member of the UK's society for engineers. Could the current aversion to children of that age working partly be a rich society's attempt to outlaw competition from less developed poor societies?
paper boy jobs are allowed starting from the age of 13 here. There is a slight difference between working 2 or 3 hours a week and working 12hs+ a day 7 days a week. Its abuse. Nothing else. But interesting argument.
I guarantee you that when some of the issues regarding solid-state battery production are resolved, Tesla will be the first company to adopt it and will be the first company to have an efficient, cost-productive output and use of solid-state cells in automobiles.
One would think the physical format of the cells could be optimised for energy density, structural strength, easy of manufacture, heat management, longevity etc. Just a linear programming problem. Intuitively the cylindrical format makes a lot of sense for the reasons you outline. Maybe a can of beans has something to tell us.
Ja, just det. För att VW vill skala upp sin batteriproduktion till 1/20 av Teslas. Om 3 år startar produktionen. När detta är igång så producerar Tesla 200 gånger så mycket batterikapacitet..
You’re saying that food would come in rectangular cans if that was more efficient. Well, where I’m from, many products are switching from cylindrical cans to rectangular tetrapac packages. And they are more efficient in that you reduce shipping costs. You can pack them together more efficiently. With LiFe chemistries that don’t generate so much heat, that’s actually a good property. You can make truly huge cells quite efficiently, and pack them tightly together with little to no space between. They might not flow fast through the factory, but when one cell is as large as hundreds of cylindrical cells, they don’t need to. Look at BYDs blade battery for a very good example. I think it remains to be seen which approach ends up being best.
Great video but OLD news that need video CHAPTERS. I was looking forward to an actual Tesla battery update but is this just a recap of Tesla's battery cells (18650, 2170, 4680), gigafactories, and EV rivals (8:25 for VW & 15:45 for GM).
Great summary, thanks! But isn't the "skateboard with cylindrical cells" covered by a Tesla patent? I know Tesla patents are all open and publicly usable, but only for companies that open all their patents the other way round. That's what rumors say but it would be great if you/somebody could comment on it or even verify!?
There may be a stepchange in battery tech at some point. Such as solid state. I think we all hope so. But there's a good chance that the next step change will come from Tesla as well.
Correction: The 4680 cells has 5x energy and not 5x energy density. The volumetric energy density is the same or slightly lower compared to the 2170 cell. Check your selv V=r^2*pi*h.
c'mon dude. Starting at 4:11 you're making some basic errors: - the new batteries do NOT have five times the energy density, they have five times the energy; - the new batteries DO have five times the energy because they're about five times as big; - what is the difference between ENERGY and POWER as you use those terms? - if the new batteries are five times the energy density, why only 16% increase in range? I have a Tesla Model S from 2016 and a Tesla Model 3 from 2019 and love them, but please try to be at least somewhat rational.
The video clips are called "B Roll," and are free for anyone to use. I watch about a dozen Tesla channels' every video, and you see the same clips many times.
Toyota is a leader in hybrid electric cars. They have been very quiet about their developments with batteries. I think that they will bombard us soon with a surprise announcement with regards to a solid state battery. I can feel it in my bones. Watch this space!
Hmmm... Nary a peep about what Chinese companies are up to in batteries. Why so? They do make WAY more EVs than anyone else. It would be interesting to know what they are up to wrt batteries.
So, summing up, unless the mist around solid state batteries and/or other battery formats clears, it is probably not a good idea to spend a lot of money on an EV right now…
The Taycan already uses a structural battery pack - although I’m not sure if the batteries themselves are part of the structure. I also don’t know the configuration of the cells, though. Rectangular does have the advantage of taking less physical space. I agree though that the Telsla approach (rapid incremental innovation) currently seems the most promising approach to improving battery performance rapidly. But there are firms claiming to have developed ceramic separators - which are a prerequisite for solid state battery technology to stop the lithium dendrites puncturing the plastic separator - and VW is very heavily invested in one of them.
this is all amazing info sounds like tesla has the market locked down at least for now.. Hey, what about ford by the way how are those cells working for them, and is there electric Mach mustang really worth it?
The current batteries are adequate for the majority of car owners. What has to improve is the charging systems need to switch over to in-road charging loops that will charge the car's batteries as the car is being driven along. Prototype systems have been trialled in various countries and work well. If enough roads were equipped with these loops, then cars could actually have smaller batteries giving them a lower cost and better performance. The loops apparently only add about 10% to road construction costs so are a very viable solution to the problem of range anxiety. Road construction authorities can recoup the installation cost from sales of electric charge as vehicles tap in similar to existing automatic tolling systems. Freeways are the obvious first choice for these installations. Perhaps Tesla can become more involved in this side of the business.
Solid state will definitely make it. However it is true, it will take up to 5 to 10 years. Just look how long it took solid state drives to overtake harddrives.
kwh is not battery power or output.. it's the total capacity or unit of energy. you are using it to describe output for cells and battery which is confusing. output or power is a totally different thing and is a product of voltage and current per unit of time.
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i am
I’ve heard amazing things about solid state hemp core batteries.
Good try @The Tesla Space, but not quite "everything." Adding to @Juanjo & @Joseph Townsend, in addition to the reasons they stated below, tabless are dendrite resistant. That means 4680s (regardless of chemistry) can charge/discharge in broader ranges before incurring life shortening internal damage when compared to (VW, Porche, GM, Ford, BMW, et al) pouch & prismatic packs. Inside of 5 years, that may be the main point of buyers' regret for those who were clueless at the time of purchase (& once well known, will give TSLA yet another exponential lift). Sorry ICE-wannabe-EV & other Tesla-envious makers, this won't be the last of the unending cavalcade of TeSlaps y'all have in store!! 🤣🤣🤣
U forget one thing. if solid state comes in. then it will be tesla who makes this real. and this would also lvl up batteries of tesla. so if this really gives 30% more range. then tesla would get to a lvl all others cant even dream of. today they have have range models with 600km. so +30% would be 780. and this is with current gen batteries. new ones comming soon with even more range. for the price of model 3 this is really good. and soon model 2 will release.
@@Crunch_dGH Please explain where you got your information. Dendrite formation is internal to the battery and occurs on the anode in liquid electrolyte batteries under abnormal operating conditions like overcharging, low temperatures etc where Li ions cannot be readily absorbed. The 4680 battery is a liquid electrolyte so how does the lack of external tabs stop dendrite formation? The key to Lithium battery life is Thermal Management of the batteries and their packs in the range 25degC to 35degC - Tesla has problems here with their 18650 and 2170 packs which is why the charge acceptance rate of these packs is deliberately "throttled" and starts of high at low SOC like 5% and then pretty much drops of linearly as SOC rises. Also why these packs need pre-heating before a significant Supercharger event and need a cool-down phase when you've been hard at the throttle. Compare this to an Audi e-tron that has excellent thermal management and so can charge consistently flat at 150kW from 0% to 80% SOC! and no need for heat up or cool down. I'm an Electrical Engineer by the way and while not an expert in batteries I know a little about battery electro-chemistry.
The new cell has 5 times the energy not 5 times the energy density, This is because the cell itself is quite a bit bigger.
Exactly. Actually 5.5x bigger which actually means slight decrease (roughly 10%) in energy density. That said - it is reasonable compromise to regain that loss elsewhere and gain different advantages (cost, charging speed).
Video creators really should avoid these mistakes. More power is not the same as energy density.
10 kw running for 1 hour delivers more power (oomph) than 1KW running for 10 hours. But both have the same energy density.
All credibility is lost at 4:12
Yeah, it's funny how some people don't get the difference between energy, energy density, kW and Kwh. And on top of that you've got power density.
Hmm
Great Video. The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is next to the country you highlighted. You've selected the Republic of the Congo (Capital Brazzaville). The DRC is the massive one in the middle of Africa. It's confusing, I know - but don't just google Congo and be done with it. There's quite a bit of history behind that.
Fast paced, well-organized, well-rehearsed with no oral pauses, well-researched, appropriate accompanying visuals=excellent presentation.
…all that amplifies the significance of many factual errors.
@@Chamieiniibet Viewer beware.
Beware of Aliexpress batteries. Usually 50% is unusable, the rest has maybe 1/3 of the advertised capacity.
Edit: Beware of AliExpress
"TR18650 Li-ion 9990 mAh" Actual capacity not even 1000 mAh. Cheap, though. (Good quality ones are 2000 mAh or a bit more.)
So what are you trying to insinuate?
@@mambobado3620 don't trust China
@@mateilicaret2904 bullshit. People buy that stuff and sell it on amazon and ebay with a 10 times markup. And then they buy fake reviews. Dont trust America.
Good doco and easy to understand format is cool! “If you can’t explain it simply you don’t know it well enough”
The real benefit of the "tabless" design (of course you have a tab, but it's a continuous tab along the edge of the roll) is that the electrons do not have to pass through one specific point to enter/exit the battery cell, they can flow through that continuous tab which means less heat generated during the use of the battery hence more efficiency and faster charge rates.
PS: Great video, I really enjoyed it! :)
It also means the current doesn’t need to travel the whole length of the media. So 79mm instead of 3M for example. Therefore reducing its own resistance and like you’ve said,this reduces heat.
I was going to make a similar comment, thank you. I don't think people understand that advantage
@@josephtownsend722 Isn't that exactly what OP said?
Even he misunderstand what is the tab-less design :)
People still do not understand why this heat so important
Heat is very energy expensive. To heat up 500kg mass with 10 degree, you will need about 3kwh energy(this is only raw estimation, depend on which material we talking, but possibly it will be between 2.7-3.5kwh/10degree)
Tesla's cars possibly will be able to reach 10-13 kwh/100km with this new battery design.
I sold my 2017 Volt and bought a 2021 Tesla Model 3 LR. Why??? so many reasons, no one competes with Tesla. GM service issues are Horrific, maybe one tech per dealer. No one has charging network like Tesla. Better batteries, better support, better range better charging, proven tech, online updates, proven charging network. Maybe in 5 years other manufactures will get closer
I just love how I get a shampoo ad after you said "child labour"
Will we be able to replace Tesla batteries when they are the structure of the vehicle? What will the cost to this be?
Man, your reasoning is crystal clear and straightforward 👍.
I would like to learn about all of your proposals.
Keep on going the way you go, love your channel, presenting and content coverage.
Thats super cool infopack guys. World needs more materials of this kind! 10/10
“Everyone just thumbs up the mean comment, thumbs up the video, and let’s all just move on....” LOL! that comment got me to subscribe to your channel right there.
Two other comments did the trick for me - the one about the (busy) scientist, and the one of simply piling doubling up the same (ineficient) old idea "and they call that a solution"😝😝
VW are one of the best ICE businesses and Herbert Deiss gets on well with Musk and is unashamedly chasing Tesla to be one of the best BEV makers.
Their plan for 2030 is as good as they can see at the moment. It's very brave of them actually.
I used to own their shares but... Y'know, sold to buy more Tesla.
Tesla won't buy any legacy maker until all the baggage of their old ice is gone. No factories to mothball or demolish, no factories to try to reconfigure into two, three or even four floors for maximum efficiency (look at the drone videos), no pension liabilities to cover, no contaminated ground to clear, no unions to negotiate redundancies with.
Why would you bog yourself down in all that s#'t when you're out in front, on your own?
How can we screw the consumer?
I know, lets integrate the battery pack into the frame so when the batteries go bad, they'll have to buy a new car since battery/frame replacement will cost too much. Also lets keep on refusing to sell our parts or car repair manuals to Tesla owners.
Interesting
Is it really u
:)))
@@marcorodriguez8477 nope
@@Jayismynickname how can I trust you if you are unknown
@@ibuu9440 this is a spam
So... is it a good time to buy a model 3 or should I wait for battery updates?
The meaning of the tabless design was miss leading. The tab that is eliminated is internal. Instead of having a sheet of material with a narrow tab extending from 1 place on the edge, to handle all of the currant. The entire edge has short slits, that are folded over on each other to supply power equaly from the entire sheet, rather than from 1 tab in the middle or an end.
I noticed the same, and the map of Africa did not show the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but the Republic of the Congo, also known as Congo Brazzaville.
Hi great informative video Can you tell me when will Tesla be using the 46/80 batteries in their cars ? Which car and which factory ? Cheers Allan
Is there an estimated date when Tesla will start shipping the Model 3 with the new 4680 battery? Thanks
I would like to know too
Yes there is. We aren't allowed to state that date, however.
Good video thanks!
4:15 Wrong information ! Not energy density, it is just 5X energy!
Well just the cell production isn’t that telling as long as VW can buy cells from elsewhere...I think it’s more a long stretch goal to get patents on technology too and have the capacity to produce some yourself.
The recap of battery day was on point! ;)
yo
volkswagens presentation sound great. probably because it sounded just like teslas with a bit of humility
If we had 20% electric vehicles I do not think he US electrical grid can handle it, especially during a hot summer when A/C demand is very high. How is the effect of running the A/C in a Tesla ? How much affect on range ? 10 % 20% reduction?
All the car companies need to make the battery packs replaceable with next gen battery packs. It needs to be pre-designed into to chassis: that the old battery pack can be removed, and a new battery pack easily installed. This will allow for the future adaptation of the car to new battery technology. This will save costs and improve adoption by the public.
I definitely enjoyed this non-academic battery explanation!
If any manufacturer advertises it's EV as having a "chunky bastard of a pack" I would buy it immediately
No, the main point of the tabless design is to improve thermal management, which permits larger and more efficient battery size, as well as longer battery life over a greater number of cycles. It’s slightly less simple to produce, not easier.
Tabs have to be welded as an extra manufacturing step so doing away with this tab does away with the robot and time needed to weld on the tab. It also cuts down on individual cell defects where shocks could make tab welds fail and thus that cell useless. Tabs also act as a bottle neck because all the electrons moving off the roll of foil in the cell have to flow through one small tab, the new design does away with this bottleneck making the battery more efficient. The footprint of the new battery machine is much less so you can increase the capacity with more machines over the same floor space. It's a win, win, win, win situation.
@@Martin-se3ij YES! Thanks for pointing out the facts. This video grossly missed the mark about the tabless design. (For that and other inaccuracies, I'm not giving this video a thumbs up.) The 4680 dimensions and structural battery pack are both dependent upon that tabless design to reduce the bottleneck and heat and allow the required strong rigid epoxy in between the cells (rather than instead requiring liquid cooling, which provides no structural rigidity). I think of the tabless design as just the opposite ... as it's really fully-tabbed (from end to end in the coil) rather than having only that one tab that becomes a hot bottleneck.
Is these batteries are safe? If in case of accident these batteries could get explode or get fire? If it is then its not safe to use in moving vehicles.
Thanks for the Info, Dillon! Good food for thought, indeed!
Your welcome
structural pack ? how do you repair something like that ?
Great explanation but Tesla isn't finished developing battery ideas and the 4680 is up and running. If something better is developed Tesla will grab it! Their money isn't tied up in "Ice" production as all the "big" car companies are.
When traditional ICE manufacturers do produce decent EVs, their franchised dealers don't want to stock them and will do anything possible to steer buyers back to legacy models.
W•H•A•T•S•A•P•P
+•1 • 8•7•8 • 3• 0• 2• 1•7• 9• 0•
I•n•v•e•s•t in C•r•y•p•t•o
B•T•C A•N•D E•T•H..... .....
As a general presentation about batteries, I would have liked to see the comparison with BYD's batteries, including the new Blade Battery model. It's a shame you left them out
From what I understand the Roadster had standard Lithium-cobalt batteries which is what you find in laptops. With the Model S, Tesla moved to a nickel-cobalt-aluminum battery from Panasonic. They added some manganese after a few years to the formula and cut the amount of cobalt.
It doesn't come with 5 times the energy density, it's 5 times the energy, with a slightly lesser volumetric increase multiplier
Another great video.
As for an upcoming video on what could or maybe or might happen, one thing that waists a lot of time is listening to someone guess. If you have no facts on VW wanting to be bought out by Tesla, which I'm sure isn't true, please don't talk about it. Thanks
Interesting video, but I can't help but feel like some puzzle pieces are missing as there is no information on how the different battery pack choices (cylindrical vs prismatic for example) can influence the battery management system. Isn't the battery management system for a tesla more expensive?
with a cylindrical batterie you loose about 27% of usable area compared to a square design. Just that simple. What about the change of a Tesla battery in case of a defect? do you have to change the hole basis? And, if the solid state technology gets a capacity upgrade, you're able to change the package.
Lithium iron phosphate cells are less energy dense than Li-ion, but a major advantage they do have is no thermal runaway, no risk of a battery fire in an accident.
Great info, thanks for putting in the work
W•H•A•T•S•A•P•P
+•1 • 8•7•8 • 3• 0• 2• 1•7• 9• 0•
I•n•v•e•s•t in C•r•y•p•t•o
B•T•C A•N•D E•T•H..... ...
it is not just the cost of making a square over a cylinder.
a square with a volume of 1000 has a surface area of 600
a cylinder with a volume of 1000 has a surface area of 558 so it uses less material
4:14 5 times more energy density? That is little unreal (I am no expert) but on battery day the presentation said 5 times more energy, meaning the new bigger cell can output more energy at once. I thought energy density would rise about 10% or so. So how is it?
At 6:36, you're showing the wrong kind of tab. Misleading picture.
Great video. Love the illustrations
So what is the timeline for the battery changes in the Y? If the range increases 16% from 326mi to 378mi that would be better but not a ground breaking improvement.
What crap, the 4680 is not 5x the Energy Density - even Elon Musk said it has comparable energy density to 2170. It is supposedly easier to pack more into a “battery pack”. Either this is just Clickbait or Tesla fandom gone to illogical conclusions.
In 1922, my father started work at 12 years old for the British government. He worked as a messenger boy for the Post Office, educated himself to degree level and worked his way up to become a member of the UK's society for engineers.
Could the current aversion to children of that age working partly be a rich society's attempt to outlaw competition from less developed poor societies?
paper boy jobs are allowed starting from the age of 13 here. There is a slight difference between working 2 or 3 hours a week and working 12hs+ a day 7 days a week. Its abuse. Nothing else. But interesting argument.
I guarantee you that when some of the issues regarding solid-state battery production are resolved, Tesla will be the first company to adopt it and will be the first company to have an efficient, cost-productive output and use of solid-state cells in automobiles.
One would think the physical format of the cells could be optimised for energy density, structural strength, easy of manufacture, heat management, longevity etc. Just a linear programming problem. Intuitively the cylindrical format makes a lot of sense for the reasons you outline. Maybe a can of beans has something to tell us.
Can we get a breakdown for the Ford and GM ultium battery and chemistry. You mentioned they are double stacking. Would like to see some more details
another day, another great video, thank you
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5x more energy density? No. 5x more energy but a much larger cell.
Great vid brother! Keep up the good work😎
The Tab in question is not the external spot welded one. It's on the roll. Big difference!
Any comparative info on Mercedes EV battery plans?
Great video. Keep them coming.
kWh are not a measure of power, it’s a unit of energy. The capacity of a battery is most commonly expressed as it’s energy content.
Great content. Thanks for the hard work and clear reporting.
In Skellefteå Northern Sweden a gigafactory battery manufacturing plant is soon ready to run. Called Northvolt.
Ja, just det. För att VW vill skala upp sin batteriproduktion till 1/20 av Teslas. Om 3 år startar produktionen. När detta är igång så producerar Tesla 200 gånger så mycket batterikapacitet..
You’re saying that food would come in rectangular cans if that was more efficient. Well, where I’m from, many products are switching from cylindrical cans to rectangular tetrapac packages. And they are more efficient in that you reduce shipping costs. You can pack them together more efficiently. With LiFe chemistries that don’t generate so much heat, that’s actually a good property. You can make truly huge cells quite efficiently, and pack them tightly together with little to no space between. They might not flow fast through the factory, but when one cell is as large as hundreds of cylindrical cells, they don’t need to. Look at BYDs blade battery for a very good example. I think it remains to be seen which approach ends up being best.
Loved it! Thank you.
Wrong not 5* energy density the volume itself is nearly 5 *= 16% greater energy density
Great information. Thank you. I believe that Tesla is most certainly ahead of all others in the battery evolution that will end ICE vehicles.
Great video but OLD news that need video CHAPTERS. I was looking forward to an actual Tesla battery update but is this just a recap of Tesla's battery cells (18650, 2170, 4680), gigafactories, and EV rivals (8:25 for VW & 15:45 for GM).
VW trying to compete with Tesla by printing money (8:59). Cheating again ?
Great summary, thanks! But isn't the "skateboard with cylindrical cells" covered by a Tesla patent? I know Tesla patents are all open and publicly usable, but only for companies that open all their patents the other way round. That's what rumors say but it would be great if you/somebody could comment on it or even verify!?
How are NIO Batteries?
BYD also has some info outhere , "blade" and GM ultium that you mention in the end.
There may be a stepchange in battery tech at some point. Such as solid state. I think we all hope so.
But there's a good chance that the next step change will come from Tesla as well.
The thing I wonder is how would you upgrade or repair your battery with these new packs.
Battery swapping?
Well done very informative presentation.
Correction: The 4680 cells has 5x energy and not 5x energy density. The volumetric energy density is the same or slightly lower compared to the 2170 cell. Check your selv V=r^2*pi*h.
Great job. Well done👏
Thank You for That Information I appreciate that❤
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c'mon dude. Starting at 4:11 you're making some basic errors:
- the new batteries do NOT have five times the energy density, they have five times the energy;
- the new batteries DO have five times the energy because they're about five times as big;
- what is the difference between ENERGY and POWER as you use those terms?
- if the new batteries are five times the energy density, why only 16% increase in range?
I have a Tesla Model S from 2016 and a Tesla Model 3 from 2019 and love them, but please try to be at least somewhat rational.
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Good to have a refresh on current battery technology. Clearly presented too.
I think I see these same video clips of batteries being manufactured in just about every Tesla video I see.
Lol yea but they dont waste time taking loads of photo shoots xd
So would you rather have them give some harebrained designs just to be different?
The video clips are called "B Roll," and are free for anyone to use. I watch about a dozen Tesla channels' every video, and you see the same clips many times.
Toyota is a leader in hybrid electric cars. They have been very quiet about their developments with batteries. I think that they will bombard us soon with a surprise announcement with regards to a solid state battery. I can feel it in my bones. Watch this space!
Hmmm... Nary a peep about what Chinese companies are up to in batteries. Why so? They do make WAY more EVs than anyone else. It would be interesting to know what they are up to wrt batteries.
So, summing up, unless the mist around solid state batteries and/or other battery formats clears, it is probably not a good idea to spend a lot of money on an EV right now…
do you have any information on the powerwall 3 - i heard a rumor it was meant to be 28kw - 3 phase - but I can't find any information..
You did not cover Chinese batteries at all. Check out BYD or NIO.
You were correct, the swimming pool toaster analogy is carp. ;)
Very well done!
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Informative channel. The unnecessary cursing gives me pause though in sharing the channel with others.
GM cell/battery design is very good but I agree they need to increase density with chemistry and manufacturing improvements not stacking.
The Taycan already uses a structural battery pack - although I’m not sure if the batteries themselves are part of the structure. I also don’t know the configuration of the cells, though. Rectangular does have the advantage of taking less physical space. I agree though that the Telsla approach (rapid incremental innovation) currently seems the most promising approach to improving battery performance rapidly. But there are firms claiming to have developed ceramic separators - which are a prerequisite for solid state battery technology to stop the lithium dendrites puncturing the plastic separator - and VW is very heavily invested in one of them.
An excellent video, I've learned something today!
Many thanks and I'm looking forward to your next video.
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Yes there are other options for Solid state batteries ..I'll get back to you on that...more research
this is all amazing info sounds like tesla has the market locked down at least for now.. Hey, what about ford by the way how are those cells working for them, and is there electric Mach mustang really worth it?
I'll find the pool you bring the toaster
The current batteries are adequate for the majority of car owners. What has to improve is the charging systems need to switch over to in-road charging loops that will charge the car's batteries as the car is being driven along. Prototype systems have been trialled in various countries and work well. If enough roads were equipped with these loops, then cars could actually have smaller batteries giving them a lower cost and better performance. The loops apparently only add about 10% to road construction costs so are a very viable solution to the problem of range anxiety. Road construction authorities can recoup the installation cost from sales of electric charge as vehicles tap in similar to existing automatic tolling systems. Freeways are the obvious first choice for these installations. Perhaps Tesla can become more involved in this side of the business.
Thanks for the update
Solid state will definitely make it. However it is true, it will take up to 5 to 10 years. Just look how long it took solid state drives to overtake harddrives.
Not 5 times the energy density, the cells are larger.
To reach 5X the energy density the cell woulf have to store 25 x the energy per cell
Can you compare Mercedes Benz battery to the Tesla
What is needed is ONE standard charging plug.
kwh is not battery power or output.. it's the total capacity or unit of energy. you are using it to describe output for cells and battery which is confusing. output or power is a totally different thing and is a product of voltage and current per unit of time.
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What about LI-S batteries??