The reason the GEQs are different and mainly why you find the RI have deeper boost/cut ranges is because the OGs use LDRs (light dependent resistor) to control if the GEQ is "on" or "off". The signal is always going thru the GEQ circuit and transistors (the driver board - at unity gain) and with the OFF/ON/AUTO switch you are only telling if the filters/sliders (5 LCR filters - inductor, capacitor, resistor) should be active or not via that LDR. In other words - if the LDR is in OFF state, its resistive cell has high resistance (above 10M ohms) and the sliders are essentially lifted from ground/not active/not cutting and boosting. As soon as the LDR is in its ON state, the cell drops it's resistance to a few hundred ohms and that "activates" the sliders. Now - LDRs always have that "residual" resistance in their ON state - meaning they are never fully ON like a normal switch is. If the LDR has drifted with time to a higher residual resistance than expected (or the LED inside is getting weak/low voltage supply of the amp is acting up) it essentially lowers the effect of the sliders progressively. This is the main reason why no two GEQs are actually completely the same when it comes to boost/cut dB range. (Note - the frequency points and the Q factors are determined by other components as well that also can vary slightly and be influenced by time/conditions, but I am strictly talking about the +/- range of each slider here.) In the RI I doubt they are using LDRs, they haven't been using LDRs since the Mark IV and they are probably using JFETs like in the Mark V and everything since. That is a modern alternative, way cheaper and very easy to fix if need be. They also have some small "residual" resistance, but they are way more consistent and don't really drift with time/conditions. This means all the RI IIC+s will have tighter tolerances between units and in some cases like yours here - they may have more boost/cut range than an OG. Not a bad thing either way - I am just sharing why it happens. If you measured the 80Hz slider's range for instance - you would probably see something like the RI having +/- 15dB range (what the actual GEQ circuit is capable of achieving) and the OG having something like +/- 12 or 13dB if the LDR is in it's expected tolerance. (I am substituting the words boost/cut with +/-). A humble suggestion - record a single performance as a DI and then reamp thru each amp (or use a looper) to make a truer A/B comparison by removing the variation in performances out of the equation. Thank you for sharing this video! Cheers!
@TheDannVal I work in a niche electronics repair shop fixing older equipment and I find your knowledge and takes fascinating and valuable. I've always wished there was a better way to pass on all the tribal knowledge in vintage and analog electronics. So thank you for your contributions. Good stuff and very appreciated.
Your final thoughts are spot on to what the video showed. Its nice to know that you can have a new MkIIC+ that will last for another 3 decades with out issues. Well donde video. Thank you.
Thanks for your video. It shows that the RI sounds great. I've never played the real deal but the IIC+ is my fav channel on my MarkV:25 and because of that, I put a deposit for a new RI on the day Mesa officially released the IIC+. From my side, with my basic studio speakers all your clips sounded good. At times and depending on the settings, the original sounded a bit less "trebley" and warmer (for lack of better words) but most of the time they were very close to a point it was difficult to know which one was the RI from the OG (I had to make sure the screen was showing the model) and I was jumping back and forth in between the riffs. Thanks for making this video. Subscribed and put a thumbs up! Rock on!
You should feel a pretty big difference in the feel of the amp compare to the V. I've never played the IIC+ either but my Mesa Quad preamp from late 80's is supposed to be very close to IIC+. And compared to my V 90 watts, it's completely different, for raw metal tone I prefer the Quad by a large margin. Enjoy !
Totally spot on. That's what I meant at the end when I said the treble on the OG is just more pleasing for whatever reason. A little warmer, squishier.
Definitely! Love this video, though you can be sure there will always be a few who are gonna hate on it. I felt this gave everyone what they really wanted to know: the comparison between the OG and the Reissue. If they don't like the specific tones dialed in, well they should go get their own!
It seems, to my ear, like the reissue really nails it. I’ve had one of these on preorder before it was announced in good faith that they’d get it right. Thanks for being the first video on the interwebs to instill the confidence, in the product, that Mesa/Gibson’s marketing team couldn’t.
Thanks, great comparison. Listening on my phone right now, and they seem really close. The original sounded a little bit more open and detailed though. Closer than most vintage amp reissues, so I hope the problematic launch doesn’t hold sales back.
I was honestly very surprised. They are very, very close with the same exact settings. If I made a few little tweaks, they would probably be indistinguishable.
@ if the gain structure is different l, then it of course won’t null… I’m not saying the tubes make a different coloration of the tone, I’m simply different tubes will affect the gain staging which will in turn change the gain structure and that’s where the tonality will be affected
@@DerSilvano Do you trust the tubes that mesa put in the reissue in regard to tolerances? I think we are going in circles. If you agree there is difference in gain structure, you'd also agree that there will be an audible difference because there are several preamp tubes and power tubes and there is no way to get them level matched with the controls the amp has. Not to mention the interaction the tubes have with the other components that are different throughout the amps signal path
Subscribed! And about these amps…They’re both great and yes, many of the OG IIC+ amps were all a little different. At the end of the day, they’re both great amps and they have their place. Great video!
Yes they did! The real test right there. Differences in the potentiometer tolerance are adding up in the graphic eq. Each one has a tolerance, and they are all going to be different within that. Meaning, you cannot set them exactly the same and expect them to sound the same. They must be matched by ear, and they certainly can be.
As the GEQ-off clip shows that the two amps really sound the same (as someone else already pointed out), a nice final comparison that would be nice to hear from you is trying to dial the reissue’s GEQ to sound like the OG’s, without watching the sliders, only by ear (a loop would be helpful)!
Nice comparison. I actually miss my Mark IIA Combo from years ago. (Bought one direct from Mesa). That was a sweet amp and really could sing. I do have a Mark IV first/early release model (short width cabinet) and that amp is super nice as well, but just different than my Mark IIA. I do still have that originally installed Fetron here if i ever find a Mark IIA that I decide to buy! I have here a Mark III (No Stripe) and that amp sounds really great perhaps because it was the first Mark series produced right after the C+ was discontinued and might have similar components and wiring. Phil Jersey Shore Area
Well there it is everyone. Personally I prefer the Reissue over the original in this comparison. I pre-ordered a reissue and can't to jam on this thing! \m/ Nice shootout! \m/
Mike B is an amazing person. I had the distinct pleasure of getting to know him several years ago. I consider him a friend and hope that he and Susie are doing well.
Ok don’t waste your time if you don’t feel like it, but I have all my OG mesas in custom wood head shells. I wonder if the the reissue is the same size?
I wonder if the treble issue with the RI was due to the wider sweep of the eq? Maybe it needed to be slightly lower? Hell of a job turning this around in any case. Thanks so much for putting this together and sharing your thoughts.
Interesting. On most of the clips, I thought the vintage one had a slightly edgier, throatier sound. But that seemed to change when you turned off the GEQ on both amps.
Thanks for the video, good job! Reissue sounded there with the high gain settings but then with the hard rock crunch riff the DRGX sounded way better imho, more open and crunchy with that high bite that I know and love since I own one myself.
@@FedericoMK I’ve also heard parts like the original sliders from the original manufacturer within the original tolerances wasn’t possible to procure because they’re no longer being made. Might explain the travel on the reissue sliders.
Thank you for the comparison. The OG sounded more in your face, the Reissue, the sound texture is more refined IMO. Overall, the OG sounded better but the Reissue is pretty close like you said. Looking fwd to the in depth video 👍🏻
Thanks so much for this!! Love it. I did have some feeback though it doesn't matter much. You shouldn't set the dials identically. Components can have a 10-20% tolerance variance, you should just dial them in as close as you can get them, even 2 of the reissues wouldn't have the same exact sound when knobs are set identically between them. I mean it would be super subtle, lets be real the IR (or cab + mic) is the heavy lifting. Also you probably should use a reamp box and reamp the same performance through each amp to remove any differences in your playing. Maybe you did that and I missed it.
Hell yeah. A comparison done right! Looking forward for this amp to arrive. Thank you. Side note how do you like the new LP studio session? Mine should be here this week.
It's a killer guitar! I really like it. Smaller bodied like a Strat or PRS but with the oomph of a LP. Easy to play, stays in tune, no nut issues. I did have to intonate it out of the box, though. But all good. I like it.
Great review and observations. Perhaps the caps need to break in over time so it is less stiff. Any way you look at it, time and wear is a factor on most vintage amps, which is what sweetens them up. That's why you get vintage afficianados doing everything possible to avoid recapping an amp. Regardless, your DRGX was recapped not so long ago, so I wouldn't think that would be the big differentiator between the OG and Reissue you're hearing. How about the noise floor on the Reissue vs OG?
I wonder how much of it has to do with your pre amp and power tube differences between both. The OG definitely has a little more cushion on the low notes and has a pleasant airiness in the chords. They both sounded great though. I have had a few older mark series amps, and no two ever sounded the same. Regardless if they were the same stripe (mark 3) or if they had the same tubes. I think that’s what makes them special and unique.
Yeah this is a fair point but there's not really a way to control for that unless I'm going to use one set of tubes (both power and pre) and swap them out (and bias the power tubes). A little too much work for a Sunday morning 😄
The OG seems to have a bit more top end sizzle? Both sound good, but I can see why Randall would think it’s redundant to add a new product when the iic modes are already close enough.
Close enough for me. Thanks for playing a wide range of tunes to showcase both. It sounded the the original was a tad bit smoother on the high end on some of the songs (STP) but that is all I noticed and that could be tube, etc. Would not notice a difference a few minutes apart playing both.
@@shaneclemens I did and I feel bad for that guy but I have not experienced that with either of my Marks. That said, I have experienced squealing with unpotted pickups or sometimes you get a microphonic preamp tube.
It would be nice to see a JP2C in this mix. The amp that Randy himself said could well be the ultimate Mark IIC+, only the reference amp for the original Mark IIC+ that was his test bed during development, being better. Which do you think would be better: an amp Randy likes or one that Gibson reissued?
Great demo. The one major thing I personally hear is that the original seems more musical and has more depth and dimension in the sound. The reissue seem much more forward while often sounding a bit brash in comparison. Not terrible by any means though. When I played the prototypes earlier this year, I felt the same way.
So are you having the problems with feedback and the oscillation screaming squeal? I’ve seen a couple of videos showing it off and I’m pretty concerned. I get my amp tomorrow. This may sound silly, but I’m wondering if it’s just because they’re not putting a noise suppressor in front of it and these amps probably are pretty noisy.
@ man, I cannot wait for you to make your settings and detailed guide man. I just got it, but I have not used a Mark amp in so many years. I don’t know how to dial this damn thing in. I’m too used to my diesels lol
The RI has more treble extension, although they are quite close. But with the additional HF content the RI is kind of giving off MW Dual Rectifier vibes! Anyone else hearing the same thing?
I’ve been waiting all week for this video. Here we go… Edit: so I watched the video on great review dude. If you could do more of a thrash or 80s thrash metal type of demo, that would be great cause I think that’s kind of what we all wanna see. Also, it would be great to see you compare it to your other Mesa Mark amps. Overall, it sounds good. If you give it a thumbs up, I’m gonna be excited for mine on Tuesday.
Simply a little more tweaking on the reissue can make it sound more like the og, specifically more bass and a little less upper mids, to my ears anyway. People have to remember that potentiometers have tolerance, and they are not all the same, meaning two amps should not be expected to sound exactly the same with the knobs set at the same place. One amp should be tweaked to the other by ear after setting knobs at the same place. Thanks for the demo
I hear more clarity and what I would construe as “harmonic character” in the old one. The new one sounds good too but it sounds a tad more congested to a degree that it seems to be missing some woody midrange.
It sounds very close but the reissue sounds more fizzy more presence and gain. The original sounds straight on the money to the tracks we know well. More clear notes and not over fuzzed. Just my opinion.
The whole MK II C+ saga, or "the stuff" is gone now. It's not because the reissue is good as the OG, or OG's price being too much hyped. It's because of the reissuing event itself took away the mojo and myth of MK II C+ originated its being rare and hard to get. And by releasing reissues, it's gone. The JP-2C and Mark VII had MK II C+ sounds, hell, MK IV had it too, but still it just supported raising OG MK IIC+'s value. If there's "official" reissue of the OG, the magic's gone. When Peavey released 6505, OG 5150's value went up or stayed at least, but EVH brand released 5150 III, OG 5150's hyped price went down, especially when stealth version came out. If a legit manufacturer re-design or reissue the "iconic/legendary" stuff under the same name, the old magic is eager to disappear. Along with 5 rectos, I had MK II B, C+, MK III Red stripe, III++ Coliseum, IV B, MK V(which I ditched within 6 months), and JP2C, and the only ones I still own is MK III Coliseum head and JP2C, I keep the coliseum not because of the sound but for the resale value, JP2C can cover 99.9% of every MKs' sounds. FYI, I sold my OG MK II C+ DRG for the price of almost 3 used EVH 5150 III stealth head(actually I ended up buying one), no regrets. Honestly, I never knew they'd release the reissue of MK IIC+, but IMHO, It's just matter of time for OG MK IIC+'s hyped value goes down. Asking prices on reverb/ebay's got almost nothing to do with actual transaction. Welp, we will see.
I think the compression of RUclips or my dacamp headphone combo made the harshness of the reissue sound more like richness, i preferred it. Similar to putting vintage 30 speakers in a mix, suddenly they're perfect. Do I stick with my old mark v or pick this up?
I'm glad someone finally asked!! It's totally awesome, actually. The biggest thing: they killed it on the nut. There's no pinging or detuning or jumping around. It's rock solid. I really like the guitar.
Ok don’t waste your time if you don’t feel like it, but I have all my OG mesas in custom wood head shells. I wonder if the the reissue is the same size?
After only hearing the first two clips, I would say the original has a lot more meat to it than the original. Not that the re-issue is bad, but I think the original sounds better
I'll be honest. Taking a Mark out of it's headshell is a no-win situation. Very difficult. I actually took my OG IIC+ out of it's rackmount and put it in this grey headshell before I sent it to Mike B. for service. He wrote in the service notes: "Mark IIC+ poorly installed in this non-Mesa headshell" 😂😂😂 So I haven't dared touch it since he was in it.
@@eldoradoguitars6456 Hahaha, oh really. No worries at all dude. Ya, better sometimes to not do that stuff if not needed. I'm sure some pics will show up soon online somewhere. That's funny about the service notes lol. Can I ask another random question. Do you happen to know anyone who you'd trust to service Mesa's properly in Canada? If not, all good, just curious, because I'm having trouble finding good tech's here that specialize in Mesa's.
I listened to this on my car stereo this morning. They both sound amazing but the OG sounded clearly better to me. The differences are much clearer in this video vs. the blind test video.
The OG had a high end bite and growl that I liked and was lacking in the reissue. Maybe 90-95% there for 1/3 the price. It seems like a value if you can call a $3600 amp a value. Thanks for doing this.
You're welcome! I'm glad you got value out of it. The OG is just a little more "nice" or "pleasant" to my ears. Just something about it... smoother? But in a mix the Reissue could be nice because it might cut more. I'll do some "in the mix" examples in the coming days.
I noticed the difference in highs and mids, but didn’t necessarily mind either. I felt like the OG was a little fuzzier and points. Honestly I was waiting for you to shit all over the reissue, so thanks for that. I think in a mix and post, nobody would hear a difference.
Something missing in the RI it sounds castrated while OG has an extra oomph… theres something in the OG they couldn’t replicate in the RI. Could be a specific part with unique components Whatever the RI is missing could be the same factor missing in modern dual rectifiers, they don’t have that extra oomph that the earliest versions did have.
Mike, how close is the FEEL really ? The bouncy , easy to play feel off the strings is what makes the OG C+ special. Does the Reissue have that feel or not ? If not, then it might as well be any other Mark series amp.
@@eldoradoguitars6456Hey man, I don't get this whole "feel" thing. To my logic, no matter what amp you are playing through, it will always feel like guitar strings. Could you explain it please because I am very curious!🤘
@scription7277 Sure man. So the feel is generally compression, sag, and/or “response.” Compression would be how easy the amp is to play under your fingers. For example, a Diezel is very compressed while a Wizard is not. Or how a Friedman is a “slicker” or “greasier” feeling Marshall. That’s compression. Diodes accentuate this. Sag is how the transformer sags when you hit the guitar hard. If you buy a voltage regulator you will see it jump around as you play. When you do nothing it will be at like 0.6ma but if you hit the strings aggressively it will jump up to 2-4ma. That sag is the transformer trying to draw enough power to keep up with producing the input. Thats sag. Old Plexis are notorious for this. “Response” is harder to quantify but to me it’s how the amp makes you want to play. For example the response from a Dual Recto might make you play differently than the response from a Fender Twin. Maybe I’d describe it as the circuit of the player, guitar, pickup, cable, amp, and speaker. That circular response between all the parts of the equation.
No issues with microphonics or squealing! The Metallica clips were recorded with Input Gain 9, Lead Gain 8, and Treble 9. So pretty maxed out. No issues.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
The reason the GEQs are different and mainly why you find the RI have deeper boost/cut ranges is because the OGs use LDRs (light dependent resistor) to control if the GEQ is "on" or "off". The signal is always going thru the GEQ circuit and transistors (the driver board - at unity gain) and with the OFF/ON/AUTO switch you are only telling if the filters/sliders (5 LCR filters - inductor, capacitor, resistor) should be active or not via that LDR. In other words - if the LDR is in OFF state, its resistive cell has high resistance (above 10M ohms) and the sliders are essentially lifted from ground/not active/not cutting and boosting. As soon as the LDR is in its ON state, the cell drops it's resistance to a few hundred ohms and that "activates" the sliders. Now - LDRs always have that "residual" resistance in their ON state - meaning they are never fully ON like a normal switch is. If the LDR has drifted with time to a higher residual resistance than expected (or the LED inside is getting weak/low voltage supply of the amp is acting up) it essentially lowers the effect of the sliders progressively. This is the main reason why no two GEQs are actually completely the same when it comes to boost/cut dB range. (Note - the frequency points and the Q factors are determined by other components as well that also can vary slightly and be influenced by time/conditions, but I am strictly talking about the +/- range of each slider here.)
In the RI I doubt they are using LDRs, they haven't been using LDRs since the Mark IV and they are probably using JFETs like in the Mark V and everything since. That is a modern alternative, way cheaper and very easy to fix if need be. They also have some small "residual" resistance, but they are way more consistent and don't really drift with time/conditions. This means all the RI IIC+s will have tighter tolerances between units and in some cases like yours here - they may have more boost/cut range than an OG. Not a bad thing either way - I am just sharing why it happens.
If you measured the 80Hz slider's range for instance - you would probably see something like the RI having +/- 15dB range (what the actual GEQ circuit is capable of achieving) and the OG having something like +/- 12 or 13dB if the LDR is in it's expected tolerance. (I am substituting the words boost/cut with +/-).
A humble suggestion - record a single performance as a DI and then reamp thru each amp (or use a looper) to make a truer A/B comparison by removing the variation in performances out of the equation.
Thank you for sharing this video!
Cheers!
Thanks for the helpful info!
this guy Mesa's.
@@David.S. What do you mean?
@@TheDannVal it's a compliment, meaning it sounds like you know what you're talking about 👍
@TheDannVal I work in a niche electronics repair shop fixing older equipment and I find your knowledge and takes fascinating and valuable. I've always wished there was a better way to pass on all the tribal knowledge in vintage and analog electronics. So thank you for your contributions. Good stuff and very appreciated.
Your final thoughts are spot on to what the video showed. Its nice to know that you can have a new MkIIC+ that will last for another 3 decades with out issues. Well donde video. Thank you.
Thanks for your video. It shows that the RI sounds great. I've never played the real deal but the IIC+ is my fav channel on my MarkV:25 and because of that, I put a deposit for a new RI on the day Mesa officially released the IIC+. From my side, with my basic studio speakers all your clips sounded good. At times and depending on the settings, the original sounded a bit less "trebley" and warmer (for lack of better words) but most of the time they were very close to a point it was difficult to know which one was the RI from the OG (I had to make sure the screen was showing the model) and I was jumping back and forth in between the riffs. Thanks for making this video. Subscribed and put a thumbs up! Rock on!
You should feel a pretty big difference in the feel of the amp compare to the V. I've never played the IIC+ either but my Mesa Quad preamp from late 80's is supposed to be very close to IIC+. And compared to my V 90 watts, it's completely different, for raw metal tone I prefer the Quad by a large margin. Enjoy !
Totally spot on. That's what I meant at the end when I said the treble on the OG is just more pleasing for whatever reason. A little warmer, squishier.
Finally, a comparison that's done right!! THANK YOU!
My thoughts exactly.
Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed it.
Definitely! Love this video, though you can be sure there will always be a few who are gonna hate on it. I felt this gave everyone what they really wanted to know: the comparison between the OG and the Reissue. If they don't like the specific tones dialed in, well they should go get their own!
@@tbonesullivan Yeah man, you can't please everyone but I tried to just cover the basics here and give the people what they wanted.
It seems, to my ear, like the reissue really nails it. I’ve had one of these on preorder before it was announced in good faith that they’d get it right.
Thanks for being the first video on the interwebs to instill the confidence, in the product, that Mesa/Gibson’s marketing team couldn’t.
Oh, and thanks for doing these videos and giving everyone the chance to hear these great amps.
Thanks, great comparison. Listening on my phone right now, and they seem really close. The original sounded a little bit more open and detailed though. Closer than most vintage amp reissues, so I hope the problematic launch doesn’t hold sales back.
Sounds great! Now I just want to see it AB with the VII and the JP2C :D
Yes, please shootout vs the JP2C!
Subscribed, liked. This channel deserves to be on the legendary tier
They sound incredibly close and any minor differences could attributed to the tubes.
I was honestly very surprised. They are very, very close with the same exact settings. If I made a few little tweaks, they would probably be indistinguishable.
@@DerSilvanothey will make a difference based on gain structure which will affect the entire tonal shaping as whole.
@ if the gain structure is different l, then it of course won’t null… I’m not saying the tubes make a different coloration of the tone, I’m simply different tubes will affect the gain staging which will in turn change the gain structure and that’s where the tonality will be affected
@@DerSilvano Do you trust the tubes that mesa put in the reissue in regard to tolerances? I think we are going in circles. If you agree there is difference in gain structure, you'd also agree that there will be an audible difference because there are several preamp tubes and power tubes and there is no way to get them level matched with the controls the amp has. Not to mention the interaction the tubes have with the other components that are different throughout the amps signal path
I've been waiting for a comparison like this one❤
Finally, someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
Thank you for the video.
Sounds good!
Haha thanks man! Appreciate the compliement.
Your closing points were spot on , well done Cheers BC ⭕️
Great job with it. Sounds real close.
Sweet! Thank you for comparing them!
Subscribed!
And about these amps…They’re both great and yes, many of the OG IIC+ amps were all a little different. At the end of the day, they’re both great amps and they have their place. Great video!
Thanks for the comparison, feeling a bit better about keeping my preorder for now. Love hearing some Black Sails too!
Awesome vid great work
The Weezer (NO GEQ) clip seems to show that they nailed the sound without the eq.
Exactly this. I was about to comment the same thing!
Yes they did! The real test right there. Differences in the potentiometer tolerance are adding up in the graphic eq. Each one has a tolerance, and they are all going to be different within that. Meaning, you cannot set them exactly the same and expect them to sound the same. They must be matched by ear, and they certainly can be.
I noticed the same thing, that is the only clip where I can't hear a meaningful difference.
Great video thanks for making it.
As the GEQ-off clip shows that the two amps really sound the same (as someone else already pointed out), a nice final comparison that would be nice to hear from you is trying to dial the reissue’s GEQ to sound like the OG’s, without watching the sliders, only by ear (a loop would be helpful)!
It'll be in the next video hopefully coming out later today or early tomorrow.
I do hear a difference that I'd solve by pulling a tiny bit back on the presence and gain of the reissue. Bout it.. Awesome comparison btw!!
Nice comparison.
I actually miss my Mark IIA Combo from years ago. (Bought one direct from Mesa). That was a sweet amp and really could sing.
I do have a Mark IV first/early release model (short width cabinet) and that amp is super nice as well, but just different than my Mark IIA. I do still have that originally installed Fetron here if i ever find a Mark IIA that I decide to buy!
I have here a Mark III (No Stripe) and that amp sounds really great perhaps because it was the first Mark series produced right after the C+ was discontinued and might have similar components and wiring.
Phil
Jersey Shore Area
Well there it is everyone. Personally I prefer the Reissue over the original in this comparison. I pre-ordered a reissue and can't to jam on this thing! \m/ Nice shootout! \m/
Great video, and I concur. I thought they sounded VERY close but the re-issue was a touch tighter with a little better clarity.
Thanks man, you're gonna love it! It's a great amp. I'm pretty impressed.
Solid work!
Thank you so much Mike!
Mike B is an amazing person. I had the distinct pleasure of getting to know him several years ago. I consider him a friend and hope that he and Susie are doing well.
Weird. He told me you were a jerk? Just kidding! He is an awesome guy! Cheers!
And while writing my comment, he switched amps on me and I couldn’t tell, so I guess they did a good job :)
Ok don’t waste your time if you don’t feel like it, but I have all my OG mesas in custom wood head shells. I wonder if the the reissue is the same size?
I wonder if the treble issue with the RI was due to the wider sweep of the eq? Maybe it needed to be slightly lower? Hell of a job turning this around in any case. Thanks so much for putting this together and sharing your thoughts.
Great video and I like your amp selection 😊
Thanks man!
Interesting. On most of the clips, I thought the vintage one had a slightly edgier, throatier sound. But that seemed to change when you turned off the GEQ on both amps.
Thanks for the video, good job!
Reissue sounded there with the high gain settings but then with the hard rock crunch riff the DRGX sounded way better imho, more open and crunchy with that high bite that I know and love since I own one myself.
We don't know if mesa reissued a drg with bright mod or with standard brightness, a gunshot pic should shed some light on this.
@@FedericoMK I’ve also heard parts like the original sliders from the original manufacturer within the original tolerances wasn’t possible to procure because they’re no longer being made. Might explain the travel on the reissue sliders.
Very interesting- thanks
Subscribed!
Awesome!!!
Nice video! I think the differences were really subtle. To my ears, RI had same thing going on like the newer Mark-series amps.
Thank you for the comparison. The OG sounded more in your face, the Reissue, the sound texture is more refined IMO. Overall, the OG sounded better but the Reissue is pretty close like you said. Looking fwd to the in depth video 👍🏻
Very helpful vids.
Thanks so much for this!! Love it. I did have some feeback though it doesn't matter much. You shouldn't set the dials identically. Components can have a 10-20% tolerance variance, you should just dial them in as close as you can get them, even 2 of the reissues wouldn't have the same exact sound when knobs are set identically between them. I mean it would be super subtle, lets be real the IR (or cab + mic) is the heavy lifting. Also you probably should use a reamp box and reamp the same performance through each amp to remove any differences in your playing. Maybe you did that and I missed it.
Was NOT expecting to hear 46x2 riff. Kudos man. Cool playing and review. Also, is that a CFH Tshirt?
Hell yeah. A comparison done right! Looking forward for this amp to arrive. Thank you. Side note how do you like the new LP studio session? Mine should be here this week.
It's a killer guitar! I really like it. Smaller bodied like a Strat or PRS but with the oomph of a LP. Easy to play, stays in tune, no nut issues. I did have to intonate it out of the box, though. But all good. I like it.
Good shit man 🤟
I think I like the new one more actually, a little more juicy to my ears.
Great review and observations. Perhaps the caps need to break in over time so it is less stiff. Any way you look at it, time and wear is a factor on most vintage amps, which is what sweetens them up. That's why you get vintage afficianados doing everything possible to avoid recapping an amp. Regardless, your DRGX was recapped not so long ago, so I wouldn't think that would be the big differentiator between the OG and Reissue you're hearing. How about the noise floor on the Reissue vs OG?
The reissue is quieter.
I agree with everything you said. Great comparison.
I wonder how much of it has to do with your pre amp and power tube differences between both. The OG definitely has a little more cushion on the low notes and has a pleasant airiness in the chords. They both sounded great though. I have had a few older mark series amps, and no two ever sounded the same. Regardless if they were the same stripe (mark 3) or if they had the same tubes. I think that’s what makes them special and unique.
Yeah this is a fair point but there's not really a way to control for that unless I'm going to use one set of tubes (both power and pre) and swap them out (and bias the power tubes). A little too much work for a Sunday morning 😄
@@eldoradoguitars6456Mesa amps have fixed bias, so you could try just swapping the power tubes to compare
IMO the vintage one sound better to my ears but the reissue is great too❤
The OG seems to have a bit more top end sizzle? Both sound good, but I can see why Randall would think it’s redundant to add a new product when the iic modes are already close enough.
Sounds legit. How was it in the room?
Close enough for me. Thanks for playing a wide range of tunes to showcase both. It sounded the the original was a tad bit smoother on the high end on some of the songs (STP) but that is all I noticed and that could be tube, etc. Would not notice a difference a few minutes apart playing both.
OG crushes
Reissue!!!!!!!💕
I'll listen later, the big question is: Does yours have Squealling issue at high settings?
No issues with squealing
@@shaneclemens I did and I feel bad for that guy but I have not experienced that with either of my Marks.
That said, I have experienced squealing with unpotted pickups or sometimes you get a microphonic preamp tube.
Yeah he should try and dial in the same settings as that guy having the issue bc others are also speaking up about getting squeal.
@@eldoradoguitars6456that guy replaced all his tubes and still has issue. Mesa can’t even help him figure it out so far.
83' doesit 4 me...warmer yep, still articulate ✌️ good test buddy‼️
I got my eye on that guitar, in my cart right now. Only because I don't have a Gibson yet but is those the stock 57's?
Best take yet
It would be nice to see a JP2C in this mix. The amp that Randy himself said could well be the ultimate Mark IIC+, only the reference amp for the original Mark IIC+ that was his test bed during development, being better.
Which do you think would be better: an amp Randy likes or one that Gibson reissued?
Great demo. The one major thing I personally hear is that the original seems more musical and has more depth and dimension in the sound. The reissue seem much more forward while often sounding a bit brash in comparison. Not terrible by any means though. When I played the prototypes earlier this year, I felt the same way.
Any oscillation issues with the amp? That seems to be an issue/discussion about the amp recently. Thanks!
@@VaughnPokrzywa no issues
So are you having the problems with feedback and the oscillation screaming squeal? I’ve seen a couple of videos showing it off and I’m pretty concerned. I get my amp tomorrow. This may sound silly, but I’m wondering if it’s just because they’re not putting a noise suppressor in front of it and these amps probably are pretty noisy.
@@mesaseany I’ve seen the videos. I have not had that issue at all.
@ man, I cannot wait for you to make your settings and detailed guide man. I just got it, but I have not used a Mark amp in so many years. I don’t know how to dial this damn thing in. I’m too used to my diesels lol
Finally!
The RI has more treble extension, although they are quite close. But with the additional HF content the RI is kind of giving off MW Dual Rectifier vibes! Anyone else hearing the same thing?
I’ve been waiting all week for this video. Here we go… Edit: so I watched the video on great review dude. If you could do more of a thrash or 80s thrash metal type of demo, that would be great cause I think that’s kind of what we all wanna see. Also, it would be great to see you compare it to your other Mesa Mark amps. Overall, it sounds good. If you give it a thumbs up, I’m gonna be excited for mine on Tuesday.
Hopefully no oscillation issues as that appears to be happening on a lot of these even at non-extreme settings.
@@pip5528 No issues
Simply a little more tweaking on the reissue can make it sound more like the og, specifically more bass and a little less upper mids, to my ears anyway. People have to remember that potentiometers have tolerance, and they are not all the same, meaning two amps should not be expected to sound exactly the same with the knobs set at the same place. One amp should be tweaked to the other by ear after setting knobs at the same place. Thanks for the demo
Gonna have to agree the OG has a more smooth sound if that makes any sense 😄. The reissue is still banging! Great video 😊
I found the reissue sounds mushy and hasn't got the aggressive grind in the mids that I've come to expect from these amps.
@Patrick-857 Ya, I won't be rushing out to grab a reissue. Prefer an orange rockerverb... different beasts. 😀
To my ears the RI sounds very close, but the original is noticeably smoother.
yep, me too...
Agree with your assessment. To use Petrucci’s term, the highs on the reissue are a bit “pointy” 😉
Awesome tone! what model les Paul is that ? They are son similar well time to finally grab me one.
Thank you very much for the video. Which Gibson is that? How do u like it. Thank you
I hear more clarity and what I would construe as “harmonic character” in the old one. The new one sounds good too but it sounds a tad more congested to a degree that it seems to be missing some woody midrange.
It sounds very close but the reissue sounds more fizzy more presence and gain. The original sounds straight on the money to the tracks we know well. More clear notes and not over fuzzed. Just my opinion.
Yeah, the reissue is a little brighter.
Yeah😁 that’s probably the word i was after. Good video though man 🤘🏻👍🏻
I kind of wish you'd compared the Petrucci model to the OG and the reissue as well. Nice job.
The whole MK II C+ saga, or "the stuff" is gone now. It's not because the reissue is good as the OG, or OG's price being too much hyped.
It's because of the reissuing event itself took away the mojo and myth of MK II C+ originated its being rare and hard to get. And by releasing reissues, it's gone. The JP-2C and Mark VII had MK II C+ sounds, hell, MK IV had it too, but still it just supported raising OG MK IIC+'s value. If there's "official" reissue of the OG, the magic's gone. When Peavey released 6505, OG 5150's value went up or stayed at least, but EVH brand released 5150 III, OG 5150's hyped price went down, especially when stealth version came out. If a legit manufacturer re-design or reissue the "iconic/legendary" stuff under the same name, the old magic is eager to disappear.
Along with 5 rectos, I had MK II B, C+, MK III Red stripe, III++ Coliseum, IV B, MK V(which I ditched within 6 months), and JP2C, and the only ones I still own is MK III Coliseum head and JP2C, I keep the coliseum not because of the sound but for the resale value, JP2C can cover 99.9% of every MKs' sounds.
FYI, I sold my OG MK II C+ DRG for the price of almost 3 used EVH 5150 III stealth head(actually I ended up buying one), no regrets. Honestly, I never knew they'd release the reissue of MK IIC+, but IMHO, It's just matter of time for OG MK IIC+'s hyped value goes down. Asking prices on reverb/ebay's got almost nothing to do with actual transaction. Welp, we will see.
I think the compression of RUclips or my dacamp headphone combo made the harshness of the reissue sound more like richness, i preferred it. Similar to putting vintage 30 speakers in a mix, suddenly they're perfect. Do I stick with my old mark v or pick this up?
How's the new Les Paul studio session?
I'm glad someone finally asked!! It's totally awesome, actually. The biggest thing: they killed it on the nut. There's no pinging or detuning or jumping around. It's rock solid. I really like the guitar.
The Reissue is as amazing as the original. I love it.
Is there a chance to watch the sweetwater release video anywhere...?😮
Few years ago Mesa told, they are not able to reissue the MKII, because the original components are out of production.
What happened?
I had one. They roar like a lion.
Sounds great! Wish they weren’t so pricey. Hard to justify.
The reissue sounds to me like it is a little more percussive with deeper bass response. Maybe a slight difference in eq settings…
Ok don’t waste your time if you don’t feel like it, but I have all my OG mesas in custom wood head shells. I wonder if the the reissue is the same size?
@@BlueSkiesBlackDeath Same size as far as I know
@ cool man nice playing. Let me know when you have it in the mail my way!
This sounds great, if only the initial demos were done in this sort of manner.
OG FTW by a mile
Does the feel of the reissue, the jp-2c m, or mkvII feel closer to an original?
After only hearing the first two clips, I would say the original has a lot more meat to it than the original. Not that the re-issue is bad, but I think the original sounds better
Can we get a look at the inside maybe in a video?
I'll be honest. Taking a Mark out of it's headshell is a no-win situation. Very difficult. I actually took my OG IIC+ out of it's rackmount and put it in this grey headshell before I sent it to Mike B. for service. He wrote in the service notes: "Mark IIC+ poorly installed in this non-Mesa headshell" 😂😂😂 So I haven't dared touch it since he was in it.
@@eldoradoguitars6456 Hahaha, oh really. No worries at all dude. Ya, better sometimes to not do that stuff if not needed. I'm sure some pics will show up soon online somewhere. That's funny about the service notes lol. Can I ask another random question. Do you happen to know anyone who you'd trust to service Mesa's properly in Canada? If not, all good, just curious, because I'm having trouble finding good tech's here that specialize in Mesa's.
Now it’s time they reissue the Mesa/Boogie 4x12 half-back cabs as a nice match to the IIC+s
I never knew the name of that Tool song. What is it?
@@bobowrathsovine. 46 & 2
The OG sounds a bit more pushed and complex. The reissue is close. They have the same character and both sound great!
I listened to this on my car stereo this morning. They both sound amazing but the OG sounded clearly better to me. The differences are much clearer in this video vs. the blind test video.
Yeah it’s not even close
No squealing issue yet that many are having? Maybe you have not used those settings yet that cause the squeal.
No issues. Settings as high as 9 on Input Gain, Treble, and Lead Gain in this demo and no squealing.
@ ok very cool 👍, great job on these videos 🤘🤘
The OG had a high end bite and growl that I liked and was lacking in the reissue. Maybe 90-95% there for 1/3 the price. It seems like a value if you can call a $3600 amp a value. Thanks for doing this.
You're welcome! I'm glad you got value out of it. The OG is just a little more "nice" or "pleasant" to my ears. Just something about it... smoother? But in a mix the Reissue could be nice because it might cut more. I'll do some "in the mix" examples in the coming days.
@@eldoradoguitars6456Great comparison with great settings man ! I appreciate ! Interesting to make it again with RI IIC+ and JP2C
Wow they sound really close, almost spot on. I see no reason to pay over 4k for an original.
4K?!?! Lemme know where I can get an og for 4 grand. Most in Canada are north of 8-10k
@brendenrodgers7821 a reissue is right under 4k. So no need to spend more than that if you want a 2C+
Thanks for this! What IR did you use for the Metallica song?
York Audio Mesa OS 4x12 "Warm" V30 on the left and an OwnHammer G12T-75 Classic-1 on the right.
I noticed the difference in highs and mids, but didn’t necessarily mind either. I felt like the OG was a little fuzzier and points.
Honestly I was waiting for you to shit all over the reissue, so thanks for that.
I think in a mix and post, nobody would hear a difference.
@@coreyclark6505 You should check out my most recent video. Full mix in Round 3.
thanks man. kinda jealous but thanks.
Weird I prefer the reissue. Great vid
Something missing in the RI it sounds castrated while OG has an extra oomph… theres something in the OG they couldn’t replicate in the RI.
Could be a specific part with unique components
Whatever the RI is missing could be the same factor missing in modern dual rectifiers, they don’t have that extra oomph that the earliest versions did have.
Mike, how close is the FEEL really ? The bouncy , easy to play feel off the strings is what makes the OG C+ special. Does the Reissue have that feel or not ? If not, then it might as well be any other Mark series amp.
The reissue is a little stiffer. The OG is more bouncy. I touched on this at the end. It could change as the RI breaks in.
@@eldoradoguitars6456Hey man, I don't get this whole "feel" thing. To my logic, no matter what amp you are playing through, it will always feel like guitar strings. Could you explain it please because I am very curious!🤘
@scription7277 Sure man. So the feel is generally compression, sag, and/or “response.”
Compression would be how easy the amp is to play under your fingers. For example, a Diezel is very compressed while a Wizard is not. Or how a Friedman is a “slicker” or “greasier” feeling Marshall. That’s compression. Diodes accentuate this.
Sag is how the transformer sags when you hit the guitar hard. If you buy a voltage regulator you will see it jump around as you play. When you do nothing it will be at like 0.6ma but if you hit the strings aggressively it will jump up to 2-4ma. That sag is the transformer trying to draw enough power to keep up with producing the input. Thats sag. Old Plexis are notorious for this.
“Response” is harder to quantify but to me it’s how the amp makes you want to play. For example the response from a Dual Recto might make you play differently than the response from a Fender Twin. Maybe I’d describe it as the circuit of the player, guitar, pickup, cable, amp, and speaker. That circular response between all the parts of the equation.
@@eldoradoguitars6456 Thanks man!
any microfonic issues like this guy has?: ruclips.net/video/lMOGi7LuO5Y/видео.html
I'm curious about this as well.
@@progrocker84also curios
+1 curious. I wonder if he just got a bad one that slipped QC
No issues with microphonics or squealing! The Metallica clips were recorded with Input Gain 9, Lead Gain 8, and Treble 9. So pretty maxed out. No issues.
@@eldoradoguitars6456the guy with the squealing had the lead master at 8, and I think that was the problem. How high did you run it?
The RI sounds good.