Did God ‘sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend’? Glen Scrivener answers Matt Dillahunty
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Matt Dillahunty and Glen Scrivener debate whether the Christian atonement boils down to 'God sacrificing himself to himself for a weekend' as Matt claims. Watch their Big Conversation in full • Glen Scrivener & Matt ...
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I know this comment is going to get buried under all my fellow atheists comments here but props to a christian radio show for debating and posting a video with Matt D. And for not disabling the comments!!
This is true lol
This atheist agrees
Scrivener didn’t answer shit. His answers made no sense.
Michael Johnson on the contrary! God sent his son through the father by the holy spirit, but none of them are God, but rather representation of Him, but not him because God wasn’t god on Earth, but Jesus the son of the father who isn’t God, but Mary was impregnated by God whose the Father, but isn’t God and thus cheated on her husband, but also didn’t because it was God who did it so it’s okay...
This nonsense is giving me an aneurysm. 😂
@@SleeplessmasterSo glad you cleared that up for me 😂
Sleeplessmaster Well you spewed several heresies that had to be crushed in like the first couple centuries. Your ignorance of what Christians actually believe is quite apparent to anybody who knows anything.
@Happy Go Lucky I had one of those holy spirit's got me all sorts of bother. Oh no, maybe I mean unholy spirit. Either way, hard liquor gets me in bother.
@Happy Go Lucky Ghost sex?
Glen: who actually believes that
Also Glen: we believe exactly what you just said but in more words.
Seeing this take from so many people, I'm convinced that Dillahunty fans in specific have become the atheist equivalent of young earth creationists. It's surprising how little he understands about Christianity, yet has passed on to his fans his complete certainty that he _does_ understand it, but it's all stupid.
@@jacksyoutubechannel4045 dude, I am not a Dillahunty fan. And you thinking he doesn't know Christianity is just you being ignorant of the tens of thousands of versions of Christianity that exist. He grew up in one of those versions and you grew up in another.
@@jacksyoutubechannel4045
It _is_ all stupid, and I realized that long before I ever heard of Matt Dillahunty.
@@alwayslearningtech Growing up in Christianity doesn't mean a person understands it. There are core tenets of Christianity that are outside of the denominational divide (and the numbers there are _greatly_ exaggerated). There are also philosophical arguments that he routinely dismisses without addressing. It's absolutely possible to grow up in Christianity -- even to become a preacher -- and have a very simplistic (even false) view of it.
My reaction was harsher than I meant, because I do find it really frustrating (and unedifying) to listen to, and I'd run up on several videos in a row I'd hoped would present some new arguments and pushback for me to think about, but all were Dillahunty videos that had really similar comments sections as well. (Honestly, there is no other atheist I listen to that ends up with those kids of comments sections.) Still, I shouldn't have assumed it was a response based on being his fan.
I hear something like
Matt: Ridiculous misunderstanding of Christianity.
Glen: We don't believe that. I don't know anyone who believes that.
Matt: Fine. You tell me, then.
Glen: The proper understanding of that part of Christianity, with subtle but critical distinctions.
Matt: That sounds similar to me, so it's _exactly_ what I said!
Glen: No, you missed some really important distinctions there.
Matt: Suuuure. Maybe you just don't want to admit I understand, because then you'd have to admit it's stupid.
Glen: No, that's not true.
Matt: Well, that's what you _would_ say if you didn't want to admit that I understand.
It's part of my general frustration; that's why I ended up responding to your comment. Sorry I didn't do it better.
@@alwayslearningtech 🤣🤣🤣 you have to be ignorant or in total denial to think that Dillahunty understands the Bible or Christianity, he understands available just as much is your average fundamentalist, maybe he could name some things about the Bible that your average fundamentalist probably won’t know about but he can’t tell you anything about it all he can do is just name what it is, he is completely biblically illiterate. And tell me about these thousands of different versions of Christianity,There’s Christians that disagree on something theological issues, let me guess you’re going to the whole 45,000 denominations thing oh boy here we go again.
So basically: "Yes, but I don't like saying it that way because that points out how absurd it is."
Jeff what’s absurd is Matt dillahunty asserting that there is no evidence of a soul and afterlife and yet he won’t debate the evidence for a soul and the afterlife even from science itself .
Matt is what we call an emotional atheist from the religion of atheism , just as you are Jeff ;)
How about we discuss where the scientific evidence leans towards when it comes to the existence of the soul and afterlife.
Heck Matt would never debate someone who knows the evidence like Alex tsakiris of skeptiko .
Alex would wipe the floor with him
All humans are emotional, but you seem to be intending it as an insult. Why is that?
If the evidence is scientific, that means it is testable. Matt specifically mentions a test that has always failed to show the claim to be true. Of course that doesn't make it immediately false, but it also means there is no evidence for the claim. Do you have a testable claim that has passed such a test?
@@jeffc5974 Jeff of course .
When someone has a cardiac arrest within 30-40 seconds not only is there no measurable electrical activity in the brain but there is no interneuronal activity either . This means that even the individual neurons have stopped communicating with each other .
If there is evidence that leans towards a patient whose NDE was timed as happing after this period then that is evidence that leans towards the soul and afterlife .
Let me guess what Matt is suggesting ? Putting up the hidden signs in the patients rooms ???
The problem with Matt is that he’s closing the doors to all other scientific data and saying I will only lean towards this view if this criteria is met .
The hidden signs have been argued and debunked as the only evidence that would make someone lean towards ndes being real .
This is absolutely silly when there is already a ton of evidence that leans towards ndes being real .
This is why Matt is 1000% chicken to go on the skeptiko podcast and debate this with Alex.
Matt doesn’t care about whether something is true . He only cares that his religion of atheism must be true .
@@jeffc5974 I intend it as the truth . Matt always claims he’s open to evidence but his actions speak of someone that doesn’t want it to be true and desperately wants atheism to be true .
As I said Jeff why not email Matt and ask him why he won’t discuss ndes on the skeptiko podcast with Alex tsakiris
I bet you anything Matt won’t even respond ;)
@@jeffc5974 so Jeff tell us which evidence is Matt looking for ?? Was it the hidden signs ;)
Or something else
So he does believe that god came down and sacrificed himself to himself for a weekend? I’m confused, how did he answer Matt’s question? It just seems like he confirmed it.
He’s a master question dodger after learning the 4 Ds of dodgball, and learning to avoid wrenches launched at his head via a pro baseball pitcher.
Of course it can be spun into a physical parody, but Christians also embrace a spiritual factor (simply explained by the dancer); love, not only flesh. Therefore, the dancer doesn’t believe it’s a barbecue.
This was brilliant.
Matt : God sacrificed himself.
Glen: 1:20 to 5:08 no,no , no , no ,no , noone believes that, no no no.
Let me explain (5:09) his(god) death paid for the sin.
How is this not mentally ill.
Veranicus it’s called religious Ice Dodgeball
But I do like barbecues, so...I guess I’m christian now?
The mental gymnastics that Scrivener has to perform to justify his beliefs are both impressive and sad...
just sad
What would be an example of what you're claiming?
@@jessebryant9233 God the brother and god the son...
@richard nitsch
For example?
@@hellfirdragon17
Brother and son? What? I must have missed something...
I can imagine Scrivener doing basketball apologetics:
"Why do players have to dribble the ball?"
"Because you can't have the ball go up without it having gone down. When a player bounces the ball it's a symbol of the ball's fallen nature, and hence that of the player. The player is later redeemed by sending the ball upward and through the hoop."
It makes about as much sense, and without the need to kill anyone or anything.
My only regret is that I have but one upvote to give this.
The sports allegory along with the Jesus story is rather faulty lol. The basketball dribbling and shooting is done multiple times over the course of a match. When a player scores, he doesn't change his techniques unless it's absolutely imperative like if he's losing. If there one is to use a basketball allusion here, it's that our ball is deflated and Jesus is the air pump to give us new... air. Not the most scintillating example I've ever used lol
@@sidtom2741 only regret, is how some will just try and find any way to not believe and to ignore the signs. I'll pray for them while they mock us.
@@daviddick1784 The important thing is that you at the same time feel persecuted and superior. I think it was Jesus who said, "Blessed be the sanctimonious, for they shall inherit the earth.". Or was it something else? I can't remember.
@@paffles6696 how do you know how I truly feel if you are not me?
"One of the reasons why I like debating with the religious is that you never know what they are going to say next." Hitchens.
miss Hitchens, he is so needed today
@@joseconcepcion4257
I love Hitchens, even though he was so full of shit most of the time with his strawman arguments. He was very witty.
@@kingsxkids he didn't strawman, he just shone a light on the nonsense in a way that even the devout could find witty and humorous, it was his gift.
Reason I don't is that you ALWAYS know what they're going to say next. Waste of time.
„They’re NOT the same.“
vs
„It was actually HIS death“
I hope that later that night, Matt called this guy just to hang up on him.
Hahahaha....it is so convoluted since the days of St Augustine and it's amusing watching apologists tripping themselves trying to explain this concept ....how I wish this Trinity was not fabricated and interpolated by interested parties in the early days of Pauline Christianity....
@@dreamflier What are you talking about? The whole bible is fabricated
@@TheTruthKiwi If you wish to seek the truth and open your mind, the information are all out there even on RUclips and internet. If you don't wish to hear from atheist or ex-Christian scholars/hisyorians like Gary Erhman or Michael Carrier, you can try Christian authors like Joseph Kelly and Raymond Brown. Just a wikipedia google on the Trinity will lead to a trove of info and knowledge on the history and creation of the Trinity.
@@dreamflier So god was praying to himself and asking himself why he couldn't hear himself anymore? Or are you saying jesus isn't god?
@@dreamflier Do you mean _Bart_ Ehrman and _Richard_ Carrier..?
Now we present "The tap dancing evangelical"
* Applause from the crowd*
And the obfuscating atheists! Who simply cannot be rational or consistent within their own worldview! (Cue the mindless applause from other unthinking atheists!)
@@jessebryant9233 which part stumped you, bud? Maybe I can clear it up for ya?
@@jackdaniels9179
You seem confused! Nothing stumped me... bud.
@@jessebryant9233 The atheist worldview? Atheism is simply a non-belief that a god exists.. period. Calling it a worldview must mean that non-belief in leprechauns or pixie are worldviews.
@@cnault3244 So fundamental.
I love how this guy, to make Matt look disingenuous, basically resorts to saying Christ and God are two separate entities. Pretty sure the vast majority of Christians would call that blasphemy.
Matt doesn't understand the basic tenants of Christianity and he tries to debate against it. It's the definition of foolish
@@thereawakening9475 He was a Christian for over twenty years, was studying with the intent of becoming a minister when he gave up religion. He's read the Bible multiple times and has given lectures over it. He's been hosting the Atheist Experience for almost 20 years and has been actively engaged with this discussion for longer. I'd argue he's pretty well qualified to talk on the subject.
@@bdpickett that's a lazy way to look at it, by the answers he gives, he may have been to church for twenty years but has zero idea what the Bible really states. His bio says he went into depth with his beliefs but never went to seminary school and has zero secondary education at all. In another words my degree in mathematics holds more weight than his little RUclips show. The guy still believes that the Bible supports slavery and screws up the nature of Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit. So in laman terms, he knows nothing
@@thereawakening9475
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Leviticus 25:44-46
@@bdpickett again that shows a lack of study. If you understood servitude in the bible it was always voluntary and if they wanted to leave, they could leave
Deutoronomy 23:15 You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you.
If someone kidnapped someone else they were put to death
Exodus 21:16
“He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.
Servitude is not slavery. They weren't kidnapped, it was voluntary. They could leave whenever. They sold themselves to avoid poverty, or they sold themselves to acquire property. If you are saying the Bible supports slavery, you are calling LeBron James a slave as he sells himself via contract
"The Father's in the Son and the Son is in the Father!" Sounds like a close family right there 😂
But people say that about others all the time. "You can see he's got his father in him". Nothing unsavoury is meant by that.
Cheap attempt to attack Christians
@@troywright359 no. It's pointing put the ridiculousness of the christian mythology. But i understand your dire need for christians to feel attacked personally. The persecution complex is part and parcel of christian dogma.
@@jaclo3112 if you said the same thing about Islam, muslims would take it personally as well. Do they have a persecution complex as well?
You're smart, you don't have to pretend that an attack/insult on someone's belief isn't an attack on the institution as a whole. A genuine person might have said "perhaps you mean an attack on christianity, rather than individual Christians".
But that's not you, and I understand your desire to smugly box up my response with a bow of faded superiority
@@troywright359 attacking an ideology and mythology isn't attacking an institution. christianity isn't an institution. neither is islam. A genuine person would know the difference and not screech their tone policing commands. but that's not you and I understand your desire to control the speech of others so as to protect the depraved christian mythology and preserve the required persecution complex while struggling with your own self worth and ego. good luck with that.
@@jaclo3112 stop gaslighting. "You trying to control my speech" lol so disagreeing with you is an attempt to control what you say?
Using the word 'screeching' in this context is disingenuous as well.
I can admit when my usage of the word institution might be wrong, no worries there.
The rest of your post is pointless designation, it's a classic tactic for attack. I wonder if you feel this way about all who have Christian beliefs or if it's all religious beliefs.
I've already conceded my imperfections twice, too be fair you started off with a snarky reply so I kinda knew what to expect
"God sacraficed himself to himself for a weekend..." As Matt Claimed ? Um Matt did not write the bible. The Bible makes that claim, Matt is pointing to the ridiculousness of the claim.
Normog Gaming there is nothing ridiculous about god becoming flesh in order to be the substitutionary sacrifice for the horrendous sin of mankind.
The suffering Christ went through in order to reconcile us back to God no innocent man would ever pay for an enemy and for this idiot, and that is a charitable description, to attempt to reduce the price Christ paid to give him the opportunity to be saved is shocking and reprehensible.
@@gladiator8325 I missed the part where he put on a skin tight red leotard and ran around real fast
Damon Miller What are you talking about
Greg McFarland all human beings will come back to life. there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the unrighteous, The righteous will go to heaven and the unrighteous will go to hell, so what’s your point.
Greg McFarland oh that’s a great attempt at making up stories as to why people believe in God.
just say they were raised that way and were forced to believe or their parents were religious right?
this is how you atheist looks so stupid and foolish.
you make all kinds of assumptions that have no truth to them at all.
I came into a personal and powerful relationship with God at the age of 19 in my apartment after I received the gospel of Jesus Christ from a man who knocked on my door.
you think Christianity is about religion as do all atheists because you are brainwashed, when in reality Christianity is about having a relationship with God.
and yes there are billions of others who are deemed righteous not because of our own righteousness but because the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to us because we received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and received the substitutionary sacrifice he made on our behalf.
you really don’t know much about Christianity do you? doesn’t sound like you know anything about the gospel.
how a Christian is justified, How a Christian is sanctified, how a Christian is saved, what it means to be born again, these are topics that you should probably have some amount of knowledge before you attempt to try to explain to anyone what Christianity is.
I have a question for you, have you traveled the world and drank every soda out there to make sure they aren’t the real Coca-Cola?
is it necessary for me to travel the world and learn about every soft drink available in order to determine if Coca-Cola is the real thing?
your argument is foolish.
christians don’t weigh out all religions and then one day decide to choose one as the ridiculous atheist think they do.
that’s what an atheist would do. christians have actually came into a living personal relationship with God, and because of this there’s no reason to try to find out if the God they have a relationship is the real God we already know.
and we know by many infallible proofs. we enjoy interaction with God in a very supernatural way, but that isn’t something the atheist can experience to any degree because they rejected the gospel and they’ve rejected Christ and they rejected the God of the Bible and they rejected truth. God is not going to reveal himself to anyone walking in arrogance and pride demanding that God prove the reality of his existence to them, that just isn’t how it works whether you want to work that way or not.
atheists seem to think that God owes them something when he owes you nothing.
First argues that Jesus and God aren't the same, then says god died for us... How does that work
It works with magic.
Yuon Flemming - Jesus is God. Jesus is the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). Jesus is the Ancient of Days (Daniel 7:9-10). Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1). Jesus is God manifested in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).
Jesus is the Father and the Son. Mary was a virgin and it was the seed of God’s spirit that made her pregnant.
Contrary to popular beliefs in Christianity, the orthodox trinity is a lie invented by the Roman to appease the citizens of many pagan religions within the vast Roman Empire that believed in 3 Gods.
Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is ONE Lord (Deuteronomy 6:4).
And Jesus answered him, the First of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord.
I could cite dozens more verses to support this. Sadly, the trinity stops many Muslims and Jews from becoming Christians because they know, and they are correct, because the OT is super clear that the Lord our God is ONE Lord.
God is triune in nature and so is man. God made man is His image. I am body, soul and spirit. God is Father, Word and Holy Ghost.
One Spirit, one Lord, one God and Father of all (Ephesians 4:4-6).
One has to ignore very CLEAR scripture to believe the orthodox trinity.
Are we you going to believe the bible or what you’ve been taught by men?
Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is ONE body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 ONE LORD, one faith, one baptism,
6 ONE God and FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
We don’t read that passage and believe that there are 3 Bodies, Faiths and 3 baptisms so why do people think it is talking about 3 persons of a trinity? It’s not in context when one does that.
To believe in the catholic orthodox trinity requires one to believe in 3 Gods, 3 Lords, 3 Jehovahs, 3 persons, and 3 Saviours etc etc - there is simply no way around it. I’ve just used the bible to prove that there is only ONE Lord.
What is this ONE Lords name?
How many SAVIOURS are there and what is his name?
We all know that there is only ONE Saviour and that his name is Jesus. Read these verses carefully and pray for the truth and discernment.
Isaiah 43:11-12 (KJV)
I, even I, AM the LORD; and 👉beside me there is NO SAVIOUR👈.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith 👉THE LORD👈, that 👉I am God👈.
One Saviour, One Lord, One God - his name is the Lord Jesus Christ 👆
John 20:28-29
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, 👉My Lord and my God👈.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Jesus didn’t correct Thomas and tell him about any other Lords or Gods.
God is Father, Word and Holy Ghost.
The Bible literally says it in Galatians 4:6 👉the Spirit of HIS SON👈 is in our hearts because the 👉Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus Christ👈 - Jesus said in John 14:18 that HE (Jesus) will not leave us comfortless, Jesus said 👉 I WILL COME TO YOU 👈.
In John 14:16 Jesus said that the Father will send the comforter (Holy Spirit). So did the Father or Jesus send the Holy Spirit? Thats because Jesus is the Father (Isaiah 9:6), and the Holy Spirit (Galatians 4:6) ie they are One.
The orthodox trinity teaches that Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, or the Father, but the bible says that Jesus is BOTH of them.
Jesus is the “I AM HE” from the OT and there is NO-ONE beside him. If there are 3 persons in the Godhead why did Jesus say that he is ALONE?
Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that 👉I, even I, AM HE👈, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,👉 Before Abraham was, I AM👈
One Spirit, one Lord, One God and Father of all in Ephesians 4:4-6. That is NOT one essence, that is ONE person as we see in Daniel 7 and many other verses.
Hebrews 1:1-3 is a good start.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners 👉spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets👈,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
You have the invisible God who spake in time past and the Son who has declared him.
The one on the throne in Daniel 7 and Revelation 4 will tell us who the Lamb his Son Jesus Christ is declaring. Who is on the throne will tell us whom the Son is the express image of.
Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and 👉the Ancient of days👈did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
The Ancient of days in Daniel 7:9-10 on the throne who has the Son of man coming in the clouds to him is the Father. That one on the throne has the 👉exact👈 same description as the Son of man himself in Revelation 1:13-16. Because they are both the same person, the same God, the one God and Father of all Jesus Christ.
Who is God in Hebrews 1:1 whom the Son is declaring? The God who spake in times past from Hebrews 1.
2 Samuel 23:2-3
2 The 👉Spirit of the Lord SPAKE by me👈, and his word was in my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said, the 👉Rock of Israel spake to me👈, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
2 Samuel 23:2-3 says Christ is the one Spirit of the LORD, the ROCK of Israel, the God who spake through David the prophet and all the prophets of the Old Testament.
👉👉Therefore👈👈 please get this, Christ is the God of Hebrews 1:1.
Because the God of Hebrews 1:1 spake in times past.
Hebrews 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
And so, the man Christ Jesus is the express image of Christ the one and true invisible God.
Hebrews 1:1-3. The Son has declared and is the express image of the one who spake in times past, that is Jesus Christ who spake in times past, therefore Jesus Christ is the one invisible Father God whom he is declaring.
Therefore Jesus Christ is the Ancient of days on the throne in Daniel 7:9-10.
There is only ONE Lord, ONE Saviour, ONE God nd his name is Jesus. The OT tells us this and Jesus himself confirmed it in the NT and said that it is the 1st commandment.
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:29 - And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
On the surface whether or not you believe in the orthodox trinity is not a salvation issue but the trinity doctrine is a stumbling block from Satan to the Muslims and Jews who only believe in One God - they believe christians are idolators for worshipping 3 Gods.
John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins.
Again, Jesus stating that he is the “I AM HE” from the OT.
God is a spirit that cannot be seen (other than in the flesh as Jesus).
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Jesus is the SPOKEN word of God which is how he is the (spoken) Word and God simultaneously. God spoke the universe and life into existence with his literal spoken Word eg and God SAID let there be light.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Godhead is a very deep doctrinal topic that very few people have a deep understanding of. It is very strong meat of the word and far too deep to cover in a comment.
I will leave you with a video that will explain the biblical trinity and the history of the orthodox trinity. I encourage you and anyone else that is interested in understanding God, his nature and his word to watch the videos.
Godhead Explained - Valiant Baptist Church
History of the Orthodox Trinity - Valiant Baptist Church
David Bernard is another very good resource on the Oneness of God. I strongly disagree with many of his other doctrines eg he is Pentecostal but he has a lot of knowledge on the trinity. He’s done quite a few debates. Thanks for reading this far and God Bless.
@Daniel Siversson, why would anyone need to study something that so obviously contradicts itself? It's akin to a mathematics book stating that 1+1 = 2 and a few pages later stating that 1+1=21.2. I do not believe there could possibly be any amount of study or "understanding" that would make those statements equal/correct. Perhaps if we just close our eyes (and mind) and believe it, then surely it will make sense. Right?!?!? /eyeroll
Lava Lamp - there is no contradiction is my two comment explanation above and that’s because I’ve based it on the bible and not man made doctrine eg the trinity.
And how much of a sacrifice is it really when you know you're just going to rise again in 3 days?
Let us now do the math. From Friday night to Saturday night equals one day. From Saturday night to around sunrise on Sunday morning is half a day. I calculate a day & a half ... not 3 days (as prophesied to be 3 days & 3 nights per the Jonah & the great fish tale).
How many millions of humans have suffered far, far worse and for far longer than Jesus?
“Who actually believes that!? [No, no. We believe what you said but use different words that make it sound less silly, still silly but less.]”
@@freestylegary Is this G-man? When you say stupid stuff it just makes you look stupid.
@@freestylegary Oh G-man, you should have given up long ago. Even theists laugh at you.
@@freestylegary Oh G-man, everyone who isn't an idiot thinks of you as a laughing stock.
@@MrNateSPF Oh, all your 3 arguments are on point to the main subject and are irrefutable. I commend you. Your vocabulary consisting of 'stupid, laugh and idiot' is so large, they provide so much wisdom and clarity. No one has ever argued as intelligently as you have.
@@freestylegary I haven't made any arguments, just letting you know as an FYI people think of you as a clown. I do feel sorry for you, but the comic relief is just too funny and you do it to yourself. The only reason people still talk to you is to laugh at you, though even with this knowledge you'll still passive aggressive your way to the butt of the joke.
I love watching apologists twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain how the trinity are simultaneously the same being and not the same being.
Their religion made them talk like an idiot.
Mel Qui If you are so intelligent explain to the rest of the world about the father the son and the holy spirit
@@russellgettons3333 A father is a male parent. A son is a male offspring. Holy spirit is a fictional character from a fictional book called the Bible.
Next time, just look up the dictionary.
Mel Qui sounds like you need to get saved
@@russellgettons3333 Sounds like they are saved.. Saved from stupidity in believing in a magical sky daddy that takes all the credit for all the good, and leave the blame for everything bad for anything and anyone but himself.
I don’t see how Matt’s summary of god sacrificing himself to himself was rebuffed nor was the question of who made the rules was answered.
The closest he seemed to get was: well it couldn’t have been done any other way which would suggest god is subject to rules he cannot change.
So what about you. Do you think men invent the notions of morality (right and wrong) or do you think that some things really are innately wrong and that those who do wrong should be punished?
@@jessebryant9233 men invent them. This is or at least should be obvious. Without sentient beings does the concept of good or bad even exist? Does water consider that the erosion it does to rocks is bad for the rock?
Jesse I mean, not sure why you’re bringing up morality when I’m just pointing out that the question about whether Matt’s description of the Christian belief about resurrection was incorrect or not, didnt seem adequately addressed.
So I don’t understand how your question matters to my comment. If you acknowledge that, I’d be ball to answer your question. We’d start by you explaining what you mean by morality in less vague terms.
@@jessebryant9233 Pick anything you believe to be "innately wrong" and I will be able to pick out someone that does not believe so and has done the opposite of what you considering wrong. I can probably point to the bible for numerous things.
Thus falsifying your position (assuming that is your position)
@@ReleaseMyKrakken eating pineapple on pizza.
Did god sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend? Yes.
Next question please
They’re lucky Matt decided to be nice in this debate lol.
Tapperdetapperde tap tap tap. Go take dance lessons Glen.
Title misleading. He doesn’t answer Matt at all
At least he didn't get angry and start yelling that Matt was strawmanning and being incredibly mean, just like Matt does whenever he's challenged. Matt could learn a lot about communicating ideas from these men.
@k1ck_it[db] And yet here I am not angry at Matt.
You can use whatever excuse you want. It is your right to express yourself however you want. But you're just rationalizing your abhorrent behavior and how you treat other people as justified. You are also the first person who complains when you find someone willing to fight back.
I suggest being a bit more perceptive. You will learn a lot.
@k1ck_it[db] You do realize that I'm saying Matt throws temper tantrums right? And that's in stark contrast to how these men behave when treated with a belligerent buffoon? That these men respond with grace and charity and go along with it, and don't get rip roaring mad and hang up on people who disagree?
Who do you think I'm saying is getting upset? Because it's certainly not me, and it's certainly not the Christians in the video. That is in stark contrast to you, who have already missed the point and are going off on a rant, just like Matt would.
You should relax, engage your brain, and think through what's going on. Think through what's being said and why you're reacting as you are. Why you feel the need to lash out like a cornered animal. It's really not healthy to behave like that, as not the least of which it's detrimental to your mental health.
I hope you find peace.
You are misleading your life with defining God down to justify your lifestyle.
ndirish only when people are dense as hell he is extremely good at debating
"It was his death that paid for sin; that's the story." ... So Matt's initial statement was right.
Jesus Is King
@@au8363 the king of fiction 🙃
His death? Wasn't he supposedly the son of god, a god in his own right? Who was killed by mortal men and returned after a couple days at the spa. If this story is true, it was all done for show. Bad bloody theatre at best.
@unkaumanguy1439 the reason Christ had to do it was not for show, it's because none of us could have. He lived a perfect life and broke no laws. God didn't sacrifice himself for show but because he knew we couldn't do it ourselves. And he always knew it would go down like that.
@@awesomemccoolname7111 So he created a problem in order to solve it. Fucking genius.
" I have a different take on it" . I believe this is Matt's understament of the millennium
The way this was cut off at the end, I assume that if I watch the full interview that Matt immediately comes back explaining why the last argument from Glen is silly, and you edited this to make it sound like your friend won the argument.
James Alan did you watch the full interview? Why would you assume there is dishonesty in the editing? Do you always assume dishonesty on the part of the Christian? If you watch the full interview you will find that your assumption is wrong, and now you have led others in believing wrongly.
@@tinytina884 the actual timestamp for the debate for the continuation of this starts at 53:52 on the full debate
And yeah, James was misleading, because Matt doesn't explain why the last argument is silly.
Justin himself immediately chimed into the discussion to change the topic of the discussion.
Not entirely false, but not entirely true either
The trouble is, whether it happened that way or not, these are never neutrally hosted as the host himself is Christian and often tries to help a theist talking themselves into a hole, or cut off an atheist when he's about to destroy a circular argument, not always though, and I don't think he's that bad, but I have seen him do it several times
James Alan
You troll. Don’t be so dishonest.
Pretty much
"Are they one?". Matt realized that Glen was not going to answer the question, after asking and re-asking it, because Glen knows that to answer it honestly would validate what Matt said so, Matt kindly moves on.
I guess what I don't understand is, if you are truly honest with yourself, would you not pause to question your beliefs when you find yourself constantly having to dance around the answers or come up with metaphorical answers to what are non-metaphorical questions about those beliefs? You can see Glen's mind working to come up with some reason, with some angle, to justify his beliefs. Would that not give someone who honestly wants to find the truth pause to at least consider why they have to justify their thinking in that way?
Yep, totally agree. Stuck in a spiderweb of self supporting beliefs, unable to break even a single thread.
When talking about God who is transcendent and far above our own comprehension, than you should pause and think critically before trying to respond so you don’t make false claims that are not Biblically supported. If a person wants honesty in a response than they need to realize that there are many ways that the questioner can have his question answered without having a basic yes or no response given the depth of the subject
@@davidalvarado6420 So you think the Bible is the "word of God"?
@@davidalvarado6420 David, as you pointed out, they pause to make sure they follow what they have read in the bible, not to follow where the true verifiable evidence and facts we have discovered lead. It's not a problem of wanting to respond honestly to what the facts and evidence show us, it is to make sure what you say doesn't violate your predetermined beliefs and, to the best of your ability, to try to manipulate the facts and evidence to force them to fit your beliefs.
Having said that I want to make sure that you know that I think it is fine if someone wants to believe in a god as long as it doesn't harm anyone and they don't try to force those beliefs on others through laws or regulations enforced on everyone. Discussion like this video are created to try to convince people that one side or the other is searching for the real truth but, religion is struggling in that attempt.
@@davidalvarado6420 You said that god is "transcendent and far above our own comprehension", and then you reference a poorly-written and flawed book *written by ignorant humans* as an absolute that describes this deity and what he wants. You don't see a problem with this?
This is typical: apologists know everything about their god and what makes him tick, ...until you bring up the pro-rape, pro-slavery, genocides, land stealing, incompetence, ethnocentricity, pettiness, insecurity, etc. , and then all of a sudden, "god is outside of space and time"
Matt helped me to cross over,not even to mention reading the Bible that was enough unto itself but Matt thanks🤣😂😄😘🤗
Dillahunty is deceived by the devil and being used by the devil. All he did was bring you further into deception.
@@BiffTanner lol lol grow up and stop believing in invisible supernatural beings. You're holding back humanity.
Men and their ideas about how a god might think, acts and creates is beyond the best sci-fi writer/novelist ever.
That is why both of these men failed in their arguments. As someone once observed, "God created humanity in his own image, and we've been returning the favor ever since."
That is call myths. But christ is a an historical figure and he represented God accurately.
This is why people follow him.
@@1NumeroUno theres no God ? All the evidence is there : Nature,morals,the laws of logic ,the life and death of jesus.
@@1NumeroUno we are in the year 2021 after hes death ,not a myth.
@@1NumeroUno Jesuschrist is not a myth, he is a historical figure thats why we are in the year 2021 after hes death. Simple ! .
The bible is an amazing book . Its a complete guide to understand how we got here biologically ,explains the meaning and value of life and what happens after death.its a very well study book ,people get PhD in biblical studys ,from archeology to spiritual counseling.. why ? Because theres truth in that "bronze age " book.
Hope one day you have the intellectual honesty to read it.
“Who actually believes that?” is not an argument.
Corn on the cob Bob “Who actually believes that?” Christians.
If you believe the other person to be creating a strawman it is.
Ben Crossley I agree. It is the fallacy of mass appeal. It’s a common sales tactic actually lol
Apparently, billions of people do
@@richardleeskinneriii9640 Thus a large portion of humanity is Still living psychologically in the dark ages....
This is why I gave up debating with believers. You point out a massive flaw in their claim, and they respond by restating their claim.
Dude!! This!!
Right
kind of like arguing with a ten year old that santas not real...you will never win that argument
I'm glad somebody never gave up on Matt
Jesus is still even now inviting you to life eternal. one day you will wish you had this chance over again. don't let that day come, take the invitation instead and give your life to Jesus and live forever, travel the universe, have all the questions you have ever asked answered, you have no answers and you know it behind your doors in your committees you know you have nothing but more questions. Jesus will answer them all and more that you have no ever thought of asking yet. live forever and enjoy being immortal with the love of God in your heart and mind. just ask Jesus to come into your life and He will and all of your sins will be forgiven.
2:10 "on a level that is far superior to ours" it's escapism like this that makes me so frustrated, why do all the mental gymnastics and tapdancing just to avoid the truth! Anything that seems to be contradictory or plain stupid just gets swatted away with "ohhh well we can't understand God, ......except when we can"
I would be embarrassed if I considered myself a mentally intact adult who actively cultivated a relationship with an invisible friend. I'd have serious difficulty showing myself in public.
One day whether you believe it or not, you will stand before God.
Fair enough Mate. Reject every evidence pointing to him. I'm sure you'll land in the Trutth.
@@mystery6411 What would you think if I told you I had an invisible, incorporeal, spiritual tree in my backyard? You'd rightly consider me either insαne or a liar
@@mystery6411 I'm an atheist, if I'm wrong this god is a psychopath and if he wants to burn me in hell gor not believing , that makes him / her / it an evil being not worthy of my time or worship.
@@delmarfo if i stood before your god, I'd piss on his shoes.
The title should have been: Matt destroys tap dancing christian.
I don’t think Matt *destroyed* him. It was a conversation
@@Montezuma0 tap dancing
Your original post should have been: I'm another delusional atheist. Don't mind me! 🤪
@@jessebryant9233 hmmm...
Because we don't have illusions of an invisible something something
That does majic we're delusional?
Kelven Schmidt The only people I see on here that are delusional are atheists.
The amount of ignorance they bathe in is shocking.
and their arrogance is nauseating.
It's beautiful (and sad) seeing this guy try to tip toe around his own silly beliefs in order to justify them. I think he's trying to convince himself more than anything....
The closest he gets to a plausible (albeit mythological) truth is the reference to butchering and eating a lamb as pointing to the nature of sacrifice. As both carnivores and social beings who feel some kindness toward baby mammals, we can wonder at the paradox of sacrifice. But in no way does this ever lead to "therefore god exists and is doing something for some reason." Fail.
It seems like he's making up shit to try to make himself seem less stupid.
@@starfishsystems True. And the OLD TESTAMENT already gave a ritual for forgiveness, so Jesus wasn't even needed. There were atonement rituals, and a goat was offered to pay for the sins of all the people, not just one person.
And you didn't have to believe in the goat nor in the god to be forgiven.
Every time an atheist like myself describes Christianity to a Christian, they always play that very card- “I don’t actually believe that.” Then when you asked them for clarification, they retell it to you in a way that’s the exact same thing, only using different terms. It’s like telling a basketball player that he dribbles a ball on a court, and he says “no, I go out on the court and bounce the ball.”
The level of intellectual dishonesty is frightening.
Dribbling is not the same thing as bouncing. Congratulations, you played yourself. You've exposed yourself as the intellectual midget.
Glen was dodging questions better than Neo dodges bullets.
I thought he was a flamethrower in Matts field of strawmen.
@@glennward5898 Matt was strawmanning? I think we didn't watch the same video.
Everything Matt asked Glen, he deflected. Didn't get a single straight answer. If you feel Matt did strawman something, then Glen didn't pick up on it. Which would show Glen is outmatched in this debate as well.
@@drownoble A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
Matt whole take on blood sacrifice is a strawman and is why Glen is laughing at him. Then is answered and Matt goes down the his trinity strawman. Water can be three different forms, solid, liquid and vapour. Yet doesn't know that. So he is either stupid or dishonest. I wouldn't say Matt is a stupid man. Then makes a truth claim that there is no afterlife. Yet since modern era there have been 30,000,000 cases of afterlife experiences. 90% have similar experiences. There are 10,000's of extraordinary cases of people knowing things they could not have known otherwise. Talk to anyone who has worked in an emergency in a hospital and they will tell you there is an afterlife. When is Matt not strawmaning?
@@glennward5898 Im aware of what a strawman arguement is. My point was that Matt wasn't strawmanning Glen. He asked Glen questions which Glen deflected. Matt did not say "this is your position and this is why it's wrong". He asked Glen "do you believe X is true?" and Glen would respond by saying "so you think Y is false?".
@@glennward5898 Incorrect.
The blood sacrifice was not a strawman in the slightest. He did not misrepresent what a blood sacrifice is, he asked Glen about it. Jesus' sacrifice IS a blood sacrifice, just like all the other ones prior to Jesus. Abraham is the most well-known as an "almost" blood sacrifice. Yet Jephthah's was clearly one. To name a few.
Your water analogy is flawed. Ice, steam and liquid water are still water they are just different energy states. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct entities according to the bible but are related to each other.
Stating that the afterlife is real because of millions of people saying they had experience is the argument from popularity fallacy. The number of people who believe something to be true adds nothing to the Actual Truth of the claim. When out of body experiences are tested scientifically, they fail every time. Millions of people claim to be abducted by aliens... does that mean that aliens are actually here abducting people? No, it doesn't.
I just love how Matt stays cool, analyzes every statement and perfectly cancels it with reason and logic ... good old Matt
I was going to say the same thing about Glen 😅
@@merlinquark5659 even though he couldn't defend nor explain his position? I don't think he even understands what he is saying and never rationally thought it through
Reason and logic from an atheistic worldview?
@@lew1689 there is no such thing as "atheist world view". Atheism means not believing in a god. That's it.
And the logic behind atheism: there is not a single piece of evidence of any god or gods, science proves "holy" literature wrong and thusly, there is no reason to believe in gods.
@@gerritjahn2486 Then what is the point of describing differing world views? What worldview do you refer to the people who don’t believe in God? You need to define world views to understand the other beliefs that are associated with the worldview. Like for example, a theist believes God created the world via the Big Bang. An atheist believes that something else caused the Big Bang, or nothing caused it at all. That could be the multiverse, antimatter, believing that the universe is infinite etc. The theist believes that there are objective moral values, the atheist may believe that morality is relative. How could you possibly understand someone’s opinions when they, according to you, don’t even have a worldview? I’m guessing it’s a deflection to avoid a burden of proof or an explanation for their opinions.
The question was not answered. He was just saying "what" his sect believes happened but not "why" it happened like that.
Welcome to religion
Unbelievable? Yes. I have to really admire Justin Brierley for putting clips like this on the internet.
Does anyone know what mic they're using cause it looks cool? Cause I'm ADHD that's the only thing I can think of during this conversation.
Wow you are blessed!
The fun part is the Australian seemed to be trying to claim that Jesus was not god yet refers him to God the son.
A distinction without a difference And dishonest to boot.
Enrique he said he was Trinitarian and described the doctrine.
Spoof Brothers I get that but the doctrine didn’t answer the criticism or give clear answers. It gave a bunch of contradicting ones that were distinctions without a difference.
His answer to: was Jesus god was either yes or yes the son. What is the difference?
The spouting of his belief wasn’t clearing up the criticism being offered. It was either confirming it while he was denying it or just obfuscating the root question with confused answers.
@@Ahkshabaz no he contradicted himself and danced around the issue of answering whether or not God and Jesus are one.
He described it as God sent his son to be sacrificed (even though I thought we were all gods children?!?) But the father and the son are both God but they're not the same.
Let me see if I can confuse you with the same argument. Me and my dog are the same but he is he and I am me so were not the same. If he gets hit by a car then I don't die but he is an extension of myself.
@@jackdaniels9179 Except, that is the doctrine of the Trinity. God the Father sent God the Son, both being God. They are not the same, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Trinity is defined as follows: Within the one being of God there are three coequal and coeternal persons, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It seems like both you and Enrique have a misunderstanding of what the Trinity is. Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. It's important to differentiate between "being" and "person." "Being" is what you are and "person" is who you are.
The video title should be "Matt Dillahunty corners arrogant theist who doesn't have answers for his superstition."
@Time to Reason Everyone who disagrees with nonbelievers and fake believers is unreasonable?
It is reasonable to not agree with Eternity Trashers.
It is 'Unbelievable' not 'Unbelievers'. No more pot rot for you.
“Who actually believes that, Matt?” Well, I do, for one!
He definitely doesn't like directly answering the questions, he just didn't like the framing and never denied that it could be summarized that way, very interesting.
No answer he could give, short of producing God from a box or saying "yes it's all fake!", would satisfy everybody here
I LOVE the look on Matt's face when Scrivener equates biblical blood sacrifice to going to the local butcher. Gotta love that cognitive dissonance.
You seem to have mistaken the look of cognitive dissonance for someone tired of listening to bullshit. How have you managed to convince yourself that there was any cognitive dissonance happening here for Matt?
@@k7450 the cognitive dissonance came from Scrivener, not Matt. Scrivener should have recalled, before blathering his bullshit about barbecue that his bible plainly says that Yahweh liked the aroma of burning blood. And I DONT think too many Israelites enjoyed roast DOVE, the most 'pure' of sacrificial animals.
You dillahunty fanboys are the most vile group I’ve ever seen. You dillahunty fanboys love praising matt for smirking and making faces, but if someone did that to him you’d be the first to point out how unprofessional that person is. You then follow up the double standard praising, with unfounded ad hominem claims, again you’d lose your mind if a theist said the same about you or your god dillahunty.
I completely missunderstood the narrative here, I thought he was saying after his crucifiction they took him down, had a barbie and ate the jesus.
He then obviously resides in the tomb of the human stomach for a few days before he awakes again in a bowl movement where he leaves the tomb and is then seen later on the side of the road.
@Philippians 2:10-11 yeah. That's just pure filth and disgusting. Human meat sacrifice of an innocent virgin as a blood magic appeasement is morally depraved. Never mind you have to perform thr mental gymnastics that the god father and god son are the same...so god sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself for how he created humans.
Thank you for posting for all to see those filthy, vile verses written by uncivilised, barbaric men. It allows us to see how much humans have progressed socially, mentally and scientifically and why the bible is so irrelevant and rejected in moral, civilised societies.
Funny how this video ends right before Matt expressed Jesus paid a weekend of death and then went back home. There was no real sacrifice.
It's not really death if you are alive again three days later.
@@steve2653 Not only did he come back to life he gets to play god for eternity. Quite the reward for a bad weekend.
@@JamesAsp human beings have endured far more pain than the jesus demigod in biblical mythology. Even women in labour have endured and suffered more and some even longer than 3 days.
@@jaclo3112 And? Do you think God finds pleasure in pain?
@@JamesAsp which god?
This guy knows what Matt is actually saying, he's just trying to find some way to make himself look less foolish. . . he failed 😂
Everything the apologist said was word salad. I wish Matt asked him what a spirit was
Matt asks, "couldnt god have done it differently?", to which the other guy doesn't even address that.
Interesting.....
The theatrical scene of Jesus seems more akin to the ancient Hebrew scapegoat offering, whereby one's "sins" would be cast onto a literal goat and the goat was released into the wilderness [to be killed and eaten by wild animals] or straight up killed as part of an atonement ritual.
Answer: No, because the penalty for sin is death and sacrifice is needed for the penalty to be paid. Just in the same way that a fine needs to be paid.
@@Angrybogan Is it not people who determine what the fine is?
Is it not people who also determine what actions constitute paying a fine?
Well, that is assuming this isn't the best possible universe.
If God is eternal and outside of space time, then he knows all the possible outcomes, maybe this is the best possible universe with free willed creatures capable of love
Plus, God is just, so justice must be done, justice for our crimes of evilness, and who can pay the price? He can't just let it slide and act like nothing happened, he is just
So, instead of letting us be separated from him in the next life, he comes and inserts himself in OUR problem and OUR pain, he takes responsibility and suffers with us, and since Jesus is perfect and sinless then he can pay the price, no one else can, because all men have sinned, they chose they wanted death, because they thought they could become as God.
@@arlethgrimaldo3534 The immediate problem that smacks me in the face with your response is *why assume any of that*?
The second thing is that none of what you presented interferes with this god's ability to select a different method to enact his "justice", and I use that term loosely because this god is depicted as being unjust, in my mind.
Why incarnate yourself as a human, that is not you but is, depending on what chapters you read, commit suicide by cop, except "sike I'm actually Jesusweh and I can just respawn so I didnt lose anything lol", in order to forgive humans for their "sins" and rewards them with "eternal life" but they gotta die first, so no confirmation on that, but only if they believe all of that?
Doesn't Yahweh set the rules on what's required as punishment for "crimes of evilness"? Why another blood sacrifice as he loves so much?
Can this god not simply say, "hey you cant offend or slight me cuz I'm above those petty human things so don't worry about that. What you should worry about is how you treat other people, for example make amends with the people you harm, not me cuz you cant harm me, and try not to unnecessarily harm other people, non-human animals, and the planet"?
Richard P but why is it needed? That’s the point. Supposedly god made the rules right?
End with the words, "that's the story". Precisely.
Ha ha ha yeah too right.
I've watched a lot of nerds trying to make sense of their favorite fantasy franchises' messed up timelines and inconsistencies. The explanations they come up with are occasionally ingenius. They sound like Glen.
And the last comment of the clip... 'it was HIS death' is exactly what Matt was trying to get him to acknowledge
This guy is seriously confused about what he's saying. Poor Matt keeps trying to keep him focused, but the guy has convinced himself all these contradictory and bizarre things are somehow real.
They are real
@@JamesAsp and your evidence for these magical bizarre things being real is....? Don't worry, I can wait. Been waiting for 45 years and still haven't seen anything convincing so not expecting much.
@@JamesAsp do you have proof?
JamesAsp and remember, “it says so in a book” is not proof.
That’s where the claim came from.
@@turboguppy3748 You wrote: "and your evidence"
That we exist
That was an embarrassing answer. If Jesus kept being god and went on doing what he always did for eternity, that wasn’t a sacrifice. It was a shitty weekend. How can that be so difficult to understand?
It wasn't even a shitty weekend. While he was 'dead', Jesus either went back to being 'god' in heaven, went to heaven as a human soul, or simply didn't exist for a few days. None of which would be shitty - two of the three possibilities are good and the third is just nothing.
When you're livelihood depends on not understanding it then it's quite easy
This, plenty of people, like POW's, were treated a lot worse than Jesus was. Hell, read the greek myths about how Zeus would punish people; I'd rather be crucified than cursed to push a boulder up a hill everyday for eons.
And ironically what he's supposedly threatening every human with is infinity worse than what he "went thru".
@@Grim_Beard Most people have sacrificed more than God ever has done, it ain't a sacrifice if your coming back.
"God did take responsibility for his handiwork, and it was his death that actually paid the Sin" So Glen did admit that God screwed up? Am i hearing him right?
Matt crushed him🎯 he never answered the question. It’s the old apologist grabbing for straws-
How can Matt 'crush' someone with his purposeless empty noisy words based on defining God down?
Child molesters also define God down with the subjective/relative morality that Matt supports.
I watched the clip objectively and I'm more than willing to admit when Matt wins an exchange. This simply is not the case. How did Matt crush him? Please provide an example.
@@gospelcenteredministries7876 matt steelmanned his argument, the christian denied that description of the holy trinity and then described it in the same way.
@@candeffect guess what, bud...Christians support subjective morality too.
@@candeffect Because he crushed him with reason. I am sorry reason is just “empty noisy words”…
"...sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend, to fix everything for everybody."
"...God did take responsibility for his handiwork, and it was his death that actually paid the Sin."
So, when God screwed up, he sacrificed himself in human form to his deistic form, for his creation's mistakes that he universally created. Roger that.
No, you have completely missed the point. No Christian believes that, if you actually listened to us instead of assuming what we believe and then mock that (classic straw man arguing), you would know that it is we who screwed up not God, I know it's not God's fault for my messed up life, but God came to fix our screwed up life. When you read the gospels you can see who God really is in Jesus, and Jesus is no screw up, he is the greatest man to ever live, and he loves you. (though that probably doesn't mean much coming from me)
@@merlinquark5659, in the garden God punished Adam and Eve's sin with painful pregnancy, and eating food from the ground (Genesis 3:16-18), then God punished humans sins with a flood, because he regretted making humans (Genesis 6:7). God actually recognized that he made a mistake, and instead of forgiving humans for his failed creation, he drowned babies, children, women, men, plants and animals.
I'd argue that the animals were completely innocent, and that the humans were also innocent. Adam and Eve didn't have the knowledge of good and evil (right from wrong), until they ate the fruit. Plus, it takes 2/3 of the Bible for God in his infinite wisdom to send Jesus and atone for our sins, when God could simply forgive us for his flawed design.
Also, we still have to eat our food from the ground, and have painful pregnancies. Humans are still being punished for Adam and Eve's sins, so what did Jesus actually atone for?
@King Saldua, a man walked to the beach one morning, and saw that the beach was covered in hundreds of Starfish. A child was picking them up, and throwing them into the ocean, one by one. The man asked the child why they were throwing the Starfish into the water, since it was impossible to save them all, and it didn't matter. The child picked up a Starfish, threw it in the water, looked at the man and said, "It mattered to that one.".
In 100 years, who will remember me? Probably no one. If they do, they probably won't care. I matter now to my family and friends, and more importantly myself. We know that we have this life to live, and it's important to make it worthwhile, and to improve it for future generations, not consider it dirty rags in comparison to the Afterlife.
would have been simpler (and more of an advantage to us) if he scrapped this world and tried again.
@@paradoxward2533, that's pretty much his track record.
excellent video
Matt's take is absolutely spot on
Spot on with a 2 year old.
how?
@@mountbrocken Explain what Matt has wrong. Can you?
@@sledzeppelin Very simple. He is misrepresenting the purpose of Jesus' death and equating it literally, and not metaphorically (as scripture does) with a blood sacrifice. In fact, the earliest theory or model concerning the atonement was the ransom theory, not a blood propitiation theory.
@@mountbrocken What was the actual purpose of Jesus' death?
This was one of the saddest Christian attempts I have heard.
William Lane Craig ( doctorate in mythology): Hold my beer.....
@Jeff Dixon : Agreed. Probably the most unconvincing explanation of the Christian account ever. Good reply from Dillahunty, although I want to know why he is so bellicose with his phone-in callers but managed to be courteous and keep a straight face throughout this discussion.
@@laurameszaros9547 Because Glen seems to have enough restraint to not interrupt Matt every five seconds, unlike the majority of theist AXP callers. Even if his argument isn't good, being patient helps him stay off Matt's bad side.
@Joe W The Muslim ones usually post large tracts of the Quran then explain that what it actually says doesn't mean that, it means something else.... and often they rend by saying that to properly understand it you have to read it in the original language.
@Joe W I doubt WLC would ever agree to debate Matt.
How can Christians believe this stuff? If God is real he is literally hiding from us, as our understanding of the world grows we are never pointed in the direction on a creator so the more we investigate the further we are pushed from these beliefs. Is he doing it on purpose?
God is very Weird and lightweight creepy (Matthew 10 30), but I love Him to death. He is also a Hopeless Romantic.
@TrainerblueTube He's not hopeless at finding love, He is a "Hopeless Romantic"
@TrainerblueTube The Bible doesn't call him that, but that's what he is imo
Did you look up what "Hopeless Romantic " meant?
what you said almost reached the peak of insanity and ignorance.
everything and I mean everything your eyes can see your nose can smell or your hands can touch is evidence of a creator.
God is not hiding fromyou, you are separated from him, and there’s only one way to be reconciled to him.
and any pathetic attempt an atheist utilizes in their arrogance to approach God is rejected by him because there’s only one way to him and that is through faith in Christ and his sacrifice he made in your behalf.
so if you don’t like that or believe that that’s fine it’s your choice but don’t mock billions of others who have come into a relationship with God through Christ because you’re too arrogant and ignorant and foolish to do so yourself.
talking to an atheist is like trying to prove light exists to a blind man. until his eyes are opened he’ll just deny deny deny.
Tina Bush why is that tina? does the truth cut that deep? the way atheists talk about God is reprehensible and designed to provoke a negative response. these anti-god, anti-christian, anti-logic people are willfully ignorant and there is no excuse.
If they think God is going to turn a blind eye to their ignorance and mocking they are sorely mistaken. They mock what a christian holds most dear, the wonderful love of God that influenced Him to take on flesh to provide the sacrificial substitute for the penalty all men owe.
We don’t just believe in God, we know Him and the behaviors of these atheists is what is extreme, delusional, and offensive and they enjoy it because they are of their father the devil and they do what their father does.
I just wanted to make myself clear when they stand before our true and living God they will have no excuse.
There’s nothing meaningful that you can’t reduce to an absurdity if you try. It’s not an argument.
Happily timed moment to end the video, just before a point where I am certain that Matt would have responded. And the question remains, WHERE is this big sacrifice? Or do the theists combine the usual inapposite metaphoric proverbs with creative ad hoc semantics?
Glenn and Justin look so embarrassed when Matt lays out the irrationality of Christianity. Good job Matt 😇
Again I state that tehcnology is going to prove concept of god to be true. Did God write about Trinity or did humans write it? In distant future, some human (one of coders) goes to sandboxed virtual world that has self aware virtual beings with consciousnes and feelings. That human would have three different personality to virtual beings:
1. Actual human form that virtual beings could not interact any way never if human wouldn't made any interface from virtual world to outside world.
2. Virtual form of human in virtual world and direct interaction with virtual beings.
3. Human coders thoughts and touch on code or settings of virtual world dependig of implementation.
@Austin Martín Hernández Can you comment on my writing what you didn't understand? I suggest you read more about AI, AEI, AC/MC VR, AR
@@engineering5090 even if it were to someday we do not currently know that it would, currently science and technology has perfectly explained the natural world without a creator within reason of our current knowledge as new theories and explanations will always come. But to throw all current science out of the window, proclaim you believe in God because future tech is exactly the same and almost more moronic than faith. And to just say future tech is at its current trajectory still not going to prove God.
If you believe aliens are God then there's no need to worship them as there's no proof of human intentions.
@@gerritkruger4014 No I didn't try to defend my belief becouse it is futile, we have no interface out of our universe, debate would continue to "eternity" (I dont believe existence of time) We are totally bounded to this sandbox of ours (universe) . I provided glimpse of future settings that will prove concept of God. God will be proven with science and technology and atheism is history then. Certainly people would still continue debating does god(future humans to virtual beings) have God. Reality of virtual beings would be real to them and scientifically provable in every way like our universe to us (if reality of virtual beings is made to be like ours, observable and explorable)
@@engineering5090 again there's no reason to believe we will prove god in the future
Hahaha!! This guy is literally backtracking on his own belief system bc he realizes how ridiculous it sounds. He’s just playing word games- props to Matt for remaining patient here...
2:05
"The father is IN the son & the son is IN the father..."
Bit weird & incesty
Glen is an Olympic-level mental gymnast. It would be amazing if it weren't so sad.
Being in Atheist is hard. You care deeply about the truth and Science...maybe Philosophy and Politics...but then comes the Christian or Islamic Apologists with their pathetic attempts to literally offend your Intelligence 🤣
Raydensheraj atheism is intellectual and eternal suicide
Raydensheraj Jesus Christ did not come to the earth to die for fun he came to offer us eternal life something science has no comprehension of
Bobby Smith Just get saved dummy you’ll thank me in the end
Kuffar Legion You believe in nothing you have more faith than me you really need to have a little think about something do you think the apostles walked into countries like Ephesus Corinth Philippi Rome Greece Galatia Colosse etc with all of their gods and idols and just said hey guys Jesus Christ died on the cross for you he is the true God just believe in him do you think they just said oh okay No they came with demonstration and power from the holy spirit and changed nations into believing that Jesus Christ is who he said he is The Bible says believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved do this and he will give you the free gift of eternal life
Try living in Indiana. The ignorance is palpable.
Morons to the left, idiots to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with poo
The convoluted rationale for a non-sacrifice by and of a god that cannot die, and with no actual evidence that Jesus was divine or resurrected makes it all hard to take seriously.
Dor Arie
What’s your explanation for life?
@@TheWorldTeacher What the hell does that have to do with his comment?
No actual evidence?
What would you consider evidence?
What would you consider evidence?
Big Brother
PMS are the initials for “Premenstrual Syndrome”, which every woman (except, perhaps, Mama Maria) has at LEAST once a month, when she cannot control her moods and emotions.
And it seems from your impetuous and DISRESPECTFUL response that you are experiencing some kind of premenstrual affliction, Slave?
So Matt doesnt understand Christianity. No surprise there. And his statement "If there is evidence for it, cool" shows he isnt interested in the truth but rather dismissing anything that challenges his world view.
Just because someone explains an idea in an unflattering way doesn't mean it isn't true.
By the end he confirmed everything that Matt was saying
He made no distinctions between jesus and God. Glenn did that
@@gordonculp8364 According to Christians, nobody really dies, they just go from an Earthly existence to one in Heaven. This is a favorable transition. The fact that Jesus went through this process and did a victory tour on Earth before going back to heaven in no way constitutes a sacrifice. It was exactly as Matt said, a bad weekend. The relationship or oneness between Jesus and the other components of God is irrelevant.
@@robertvirnig638 With respect you’ve missed the central point of a God who would give up part of himself for us, for you, for me ... through a sacrificial death. The death of death in the death and resurrection of Christ.
@@nagolhayze9366 Oh I understand what the story of the resurrection is supposed to mean, been hearing it since I was a child. I just reject the idea that it was a sacrifice. Now if a god died for us and stayed dead, that would be an actual sacrifice.
@@robertvirnig638 Thank you for your reply Robert. With respect if God died for us and stayed dead that would merely be a temporal sacrifice. This was a very different kind of sacrifice, it actually involved the resurrection of Christ, the ultimate defeat of death and the ultimate victory over sin, through a giving love, to us, and for us.
Let's assume that the idea of death as a way of solving the problem of man's sin makes sense to me for a moment (it doesn't). What about the resurrection?
We agree that if a parent sacrifices their life for that of their son/daughter they pay a great cost. That's why it's seen as a great and very selfless thing, they're permanently giving away their life so that their child may live their own. Simply giving up 3 days in the face of eternity is, in a mathematical sense, no cost at all; infinity minus anything is still infinity. You aren't giving up anything. You still have eternity in front of you, what are you sacrificing exactly?
Unknown Being All the glory He was deserving of was replaced with the judgement/punishment (Hell) of all those who could and would believe because of Him. Adding in the fact that the Son which existed eternally with the Father, was separated from Him. Maybe that doesn’t seem like a big deal to us relationally because of our experience, but if you think about it, it’s incomprehensible.
It just doesn't make sense on any level. Doug Stanhope joked that's its the equivalent to saying, "I'll hit my foot with a hammer for your mortgage." As a Christian you think it makes sense because you were programmed to think it makes sense from birth.
@@doug196 Think of a boy told by his parents that he will be taken to a hospital for an operation , the boy won't feel much heaviness in heart because he doesn't know the pain. But if you told the exact same thing to a 50 year old his heart would be heavy because he knows the pain that is to come. Now think of an all knowing God that knows the pain not like our memory of the pain but knows the pain in depth. So Jesus Christ as a perfect human and an all knowing God knows the pain as much as a man would know but knows it eternally...That means who knew the pain and still knows the pain as a human would know it. That is why in Revelation you see the Lamb of God "injured" or "cut".
Another thing is that the pain experienced by Christ was not the pain inflicted by the soldiers but what Christ went through in the darkness , which no one knows what happened . In that darkness Christ screamed in pain...
That is how I view the pain experienced by the Lord on the cross
@@samueljoseph9710
"All the glory He was deserving of was replaced with the judgement/punishment (Hell) of all those who could and would believe because of Him."
I'm sorry, I don't get this?
"Adding in the fact that the Son which existed eternally with the Father, was separated from Him."
Separated how exactly? Jesus ascended and is "sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven". (Matthew 26:64)
So we're looking at a temporary separation, and being separated from god for 30-something years while still enjoying eternity in heaven right after still isn't a sacrifice at all. 30 years is a long time only if your life-span is around 70 years. But that's *nothing* to god. Literally.
"but if you think about it, it’s incomprehensible."
It seems incromprehensible to me too. I still don't get it.
Whenever you give up something you don't want to give up, that is considered a sacrifice. Just think about whenever you've wanted to get in shape or people that go to college, they give up time to study, that is a sacrifice. Jesus gave up his position in Heaven for 33 years to become one of us, and suffered a horrible death, one that did not belong to him and a punishment he was not guilty of, that in itself is a sacrifice.
Matt seems mad God didn’t do it Matt’s way
You seem mad that god doesn't exist.
I was at a work event other week, and everyone had a name badge on. I saw one name badge said "Hello my name is vegan" hahaha
Such a nonsensical argument from the Aussie...🥴🤦🏻♂️
Listen Matt, it took a long time for Jesus to level up high enough to chose the subclass Blood Mage. Only Punk Biatches choose Spirit healer. And it was a Hell of a weekend. Literally.
Ahh, that makes sense! So Jesus was actually grinding this whole time!
Im just amazed how Matt can remain calm, when faced with a catalogue of nonsense mataphors. I really take exception that this man/god claims to have died/suicided (3 days) for the alledged 'sins' of my kids/grandkids etc
I think the Trinity has made it really tough for Christians and apologists to defend their position. I think you have to have extra intellectual wit and be skilled in mental gymnastics or maybe even mental Olympics to defend the trinity with ease. The whole idea of God being three persons in one defies logic.
Title is misleading. It should say "dishonest 'Christian' dodges questions because answering them would demonstrate the falsehood of Christian doctrine". I suppose that is a bit long though.
It's hilarious listening to Christians trying to explain how the "three persons" of the Trinity relate to each other.
So it's our fault that you can't understand it like what XD?
@Dominique Roydor i've heard atheists were very open-minded and great thinkers
@Dominique Roydor So you are only great thinkers
@@slei4676 Another sign that you're incapable--at present--of forming or even asking a meaningful, honest question, is that you're using the black and white fallacy...either someone is a great thinker, or someone is an idiot. No one here said they are great thinkers. But with this particular question, yes...your ability to be objective is compromised. It's almost guaranteed with a religious person. You simply can't bring yourself to question your religious leaders, or the deity you believe in. It's one of the hallmarks of cult-like thinking--never question the leadership or the god they tell you to believe in. You stop questioning, and you stop thinking.
@@rikk319 nice and you just used black and white fallacy too: either you don't believe in God or you are not thinking at all.
"You simply can't bring yourself to question your religious leaders, or the deity you believe in"
Show the evidence for your claim?
Besides that you strawmanned me. I never said that "either someone is a great thinker, or someone is an idiot". My comment was sarcastic but maybe I stated it misleadingly to look like genuine question. It was regarding the fact that atheists consider themselfs to be intellectually more open and capable than religious people and your comment proves that. And none of you provided any arguments supporting you claim that God's trinity is nonsens. You are actually the one's that don't question the problem. You just reject it as stupid with no explanation. If you have some good arguments to backup your claim then I'm open to debate, maybe you will convince me that trinity is in fact nonsens.
Way to NOT answer the “why” part of Matt’s question
This guy was obviously trained to merely repeat the claim instead of answering a question about the claim
Matt literally admits that evidence wouldn't be enough for him. He says at 2:56 "I don't see sufficient evidence for it. If there is, cool"
He’s saying if there is an afterlife,”cool”, even though there’s no sufficient evidence
@@stevemull22x Since modern medical practice has revived people after death. There have been 30,000,000 cases and 90% have the similar claims. Then there are the extraordinary cases. Where people know things they could not have known. There are 10,000's of those cases. But that's not enough evidence for Matt. Why is it not enough evidence for you?
@@glennward5898 because there haven't been 30 million cases with 90% of them similar. Or extraordinary cases of people knowing things they couldnt have.
There are over 25 million gods that mankind has worshipped and most of them have the same amount of evidence for them. Most of it is weak and based on mythology.
"Did God ‘sacrifice himself to himself for a weekend’?"
That question ranks up there with "Did Prometheus (a god) steal the secret of fire from the other gods & give it to humans to make our lives easier?".
The difference between the two stories is that there is no evidence for the Jesus story,but we DO have fire.... and for his gift to humanity Prometheus was sentenced to eternity having his liver eaten out of him by a large bird ( his liver would grow back overnight & the bird would return at dawn to start eating again).
Prometheus' sacrifice was far greater than that of Jesus ( a few hours of pain,death.... then resurrection & eternity in heaven..
All hail Prometheus!
RetroMan That's a lie. Is not the wicked who are going to be thrown in the lake of fire, but those who don't believe. Having been wicked or not doesn't have anything to do with salvation. It's a metaphysical version of nepotism. Escape punishment because you a have a "friend" in a high place of authority. You buy the story, no matter how ridiculous it is or how bad a person you were, and you are saved. You don't, then you are doomed. Is not a sistem of justice, it is God narcissism 2.0.
@@alejandrovillalba3143 Perfectly said. I'm borrowing that if you don't mind.
@@alejandrovillalba3143 Catholicism taught that faith and good works were necessary to get into heaven. In my Catholic private school I was taught nonbelievers who were good would get to know God in purgatory. If they believed afterwards they can get into heaven. This is far more moral than protestantism which taught only faith alone was necessary. I still left Catholicism because it is corrupt and ignores all the other moral/scientific issues in the bible. Protestantism is what made America the intolerant, racist, homophobic, uneducated, corrupt, murderous, cesspool it is today.
Except that Jesus story actually happened and Prometheus story was a myth....
@@desigamer8598 They're both myths, sparky
And you don't show the rebuttal, this is propaganda.
When people look for answers they may come to this video, and simply accept the ending statement, because they didn't get to see the rebuttal
Glen: Yes, but you see the only way to unite us as a family was for god to sacrifice himself to himself.
God sacrificed himself to himself to save us (his creation) from sin and Hell, which He himself created. I love it when you ask a Christian if God could have just forgiven sin, and they say "no because the price of sin had to be payed ". They're saying that God couldn't do this, or had to do that. They, humans, are saying what God had to do to deal with sin. The arrogance. If God is all powerful, he could just Thanos Snap sin out of existence.
Christian: If I can confuse Matt with a whole lotta nothing, I win! “No no! God the son is not God! It’s the trinity. God and the son are one, but not the same! They’re united. I’m right, next point.”
Atheist: i don't understand it so it can't be right 😂
@@brundlefly204 then offer a better explanation than the apologist from the video. Because a well educated apologist failed miserably explaining it.
@@bss0815 educate yourself plenty of resources online. If you are being honest you could have googled it 1 year ago
@@brundlefly204 then provide the resources, or are you expecting us to find that the trinity is a Babilonian influence on jewish religion? Because google says that.
@@brundlefly204 Because clearly Google provides us with one consistent answer, right? I've Googled and visited multiple sites, and everyone seems to have their own subjective interpretation of the trinity. So just the fact that you are here saying the silly non-sense that you just said, means that you are a dumbass.
To redeem yourself, provide us with the correct explanation of the trinity.
And it still has no independent evidence to support that story.
The analogy used to explain the trinity is, something like fire. There is the fire itself, the heat off of the fire and thirdly, the light emanating from the fire. But the fire itself is singular.
Well, Matt is right. If Jesus is god, died for humanity´s sins and rose from the dead 2-3 days later, then he sacrificed himself to himself for a weekend, because...
1. he sacrificed himself
2. The sacrifice was to god
3. He didn´t stay dead.
If the messiah is god and pays for the sins, to whom is he paying if not to god, so to himself?
To paraphrase C. Hitchens, Scrivener is “still left holding an empty sack.”.
And your still looking at an empty tomb. Any more strawman arguments.
@@glennward5898 I don't think you know what a straw man is.
@@cmhardin37 A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
Matt whole take on blood sacrifice is a strawman and is why Glen is laughing at him. Then is answered and Matt goes down the his trinity strawman. Water can be three different forms, solid, liquid and vapour. Yet doesn't know that. So he is either stupid or dishonest. I wouldn't say Matt is a stupid man. Then makes a truth claim that there is no afterlife. Yet since modern era there have been 30,000,000 cases of afterlife experiences. 90% have similar experiences. There are 10,000's of extraordinary cases of people knowing things they could not have known otherwise. Talk to anyone who has worked in an emergency in a hospital and they will tell you there is an afterlife. When is Matt not strawmaning?
@@glennward5898 There is no straw man in demon possession, the atheist who witnessed several converted to Christianity in California after watching exorcisms, he is a physiatrist M.D. he wrote a book about if awhile back I trust in these events and Pascal's wager
@@555nm6 I love Pascal's wager. One of my favorite quotes from him is, "There are only two kinds of people one can call reasonable: Those who serve God with all their heart because they know him, and those who seek him with all their heart because they do not know him."
Unfortunately the atheists here do not seek him with all their hearts. Thus they can't even see any of Matt's straw man arguments, and can not be called reasonable. Yet I am reminded of Jesus's words, "I am the way, the truth and the life." All we can do is point them to the truth. When they seek that, they will find Jesus there waiting.
Ever notice how they never let Matt hold a mic in these debates? If they did everything he said would end in a thud
None of them are holding a mic
... sooo... God is dead? He died and now he's dead? Or was it the act of dying that payed for our sins, the effects of his flawed creation? Because if he's still "alive" then he didn't die in the way that other sacrifices work. So the most charitable read here is that God abandoned reality but loves us so much that he kept us festering in this place but with a loophole of faith to join him in the afterlife outside of reality where he's always resided.... because if he can choose to return at any moment, how can we consider him dead? And if it was only the small part of man God- Jesus that died, why doesn't everyone iteration of the pope count as absolution for sin?
Religious guy "no Jesus isn't God he's God. They're separate but the same." Yeah dude, he's part of the trinity. Meaning 3 in 1. So when the son sacrifices himself to the father it's a sacrifice of himself to himself. You're just saying (puts on obstinate toddler voice) "NO!"
If this had been on one of Matt's shows, he would have hung up on him for refusing to answer the question(s). And delivered a reasoned 5 minute monologue of why Scrivener was talking nonsense.
“You actually believe that!”
So does everyone who believes the bible, Glen. That's exactly what the bible says, word for word, tap-dancing interpretations aside. Squirm and wriggle all you want, but the gospels have hung you out to dry.
Not seeing anything here that substantially refutes god sacrificing itself to itself for problems it created. It’s so silly it’s almost like it was made up ! Woooooow!
@Caratacus A lot of used car salesmen wish they had customers as gullible as you. But if it makes you happy and brings you comfort, all I ask is that you stay out of my life and stop voting your beliefs.
@Caratacus Or provide evidence that your beliefs aren't delusions and hallucinations.
BTW, you weren't waiting for JFK and JFK Jr. to come walking up last week, were you?
@Caratacus "Scientifically derived" means the evidence can be reproduced or results duplicated under similar conditions. Isn't it time "god" impregnated another young Jewish girl and then had her daughter killed and brought back to life?
And we could use 10 more commandments engraved on stone tablets -- maybe something about protecting the Earth, and dial down the self-aggrandizing orders ("Thou shalt have no other gods...")
WERE there other gods? Were they an improvement over the arrogant egotistical thug you claim is running the show now?
The last thing our species needs is more Aesop's Fables with a halo stuck on 'em.
@Caratacus Already did.
I am not a psychologist nor a good poker player but when he started his last argument, was somewhat scratching his face. That was "a TELL".
Matt made the most sense of all, and he was respectful of the story, because that's what it is.
The Bible isn't a literal history book or science journal.
Matt has patience of a saint.
Not always. .
When he needs to, but I love it when he doesn’t!
You must be new.