Or he should have been buried at sea on New Alderaan inside the Millenium Falcon, with Queen Leia Organa conducting the ceremony. Now doesn't that sound like a better movie, already?
Jaybee Anything would of been better than the way he went out, even an epic gunfight with some thugs or gangsters, anything, but no he went out like a bitch (like luke). It's all part of Disney's plan to remove the old and bring in the new, they could of "passed the baton" to the new generation without killing off the old characters, so disrespectful.
Exactly. They should've all three gone out in a blaze of glory. They really seem to hate the original characters and just can't get rid of them fast enough and don't want to give them even a second of glory or heroic power.
The idea that Star Wars fans don't like strong female characters is insane. As you pointed out Leia and Ahsoka are fan favorites. Not to mention characters that were destroyed to make room for the new Star Wars. By the end of the EU story telling Jaina Solo was straight up running things. Rey is a shadow of the character that Jaina was, but she developed into the character. And I never heard anyone complain. Not once. Mara Jade was LOVED!! Tahiri Veila was a good character, Winter is a great character, Mirax is a great character. There are tons of great female heroes and even great female villains. I have yet to see a female character in these new stories that come close to any of the ones before them. Not one.
Star Wars lost me when in TFA, Kylo Ren stopped energy in mid air ---- ENERGY ---- yet he lost to Mary Sue Rey. Yep, he can manipulate sub atomic particles, but lose to an untrained 100 pound woman.
Meh. The movie was panned by social justice advocates, too. Star Wars has always been political - it's a rather conservative series about justified war, after all. But it was always far more careful about its political messaging. The problem with TLJ is not that it was political, the problem is that it was sloppy and ham-handed.
Jar Jar Abrams is creatively bankrupt but Ranal Johnson is basically a blackhole of creativity. Everything looks cool while its being crushed until you realized the cool things are being consumed by the black hole. KK is pretty much dark matter and shouldnt exist.
Coming on this page every other few days and seeing your subscription count go up definitely puts a smile on my face I love this page and knew when I first found it that you guys would be getting more popular
"Star Wars fans watch these things in a sequence, it's a saga. You can't soft reboot in the middle of a saga." and "There is nothing that the next movie can do that will be substantive enough to save this experience." Oh. My. Gosh. The very things I have been saying for the last two plus years.
I showed my girlfriend the original trilogy for the first time. I honestly distanced myself from the franchise after rogue one. I’m not a fan of anything coming out today. When we sat down, not only did she fall in love with the movies, but I rediscovered why I loved Star Wars so much. Good triumphing evil, conflict between father and son, and family. When we finished Return of the Jedi, I felt happy as did she. The funny part was, my girlfriend immediately wanted an Ewok plush. I quickly hoped on amazon to see if there were any available. The realization that there weren’t many original trilogy products on shelves made me wished that Disney never bought Lucasfilm
What pisses me off is people who say that you have to read all these books and outside stuff to understand the movie. That's not how movie are supposed to work. They're supposed to be self contained and Disney doesn't do self contained.
Thank you! I've been saying the same thing. Novelizations with a little more content are fine in my opinion, but when the novelization for TLJ was written basically as a TLJ 0.1 companion and adding material that should have been in the film to fill plot holes, maybe TLJ would have had more positive reviews. No one mourned Han, so what should happened? A memorial at least. Anakin died seeing his son's face without the helmet, Luke gave him a respectful death on the pyre in Return of the Jedi. Leia, Chewie, Rey should have mourned him on screen! Hell, Chewie, owed a life debt to Han, and he had to watch his best friend die as he watched, and he didn't even get a damn hug of sympathy from Leia, Han's wife and another good friend of Chewie's! (That's one the most important problems I had with it, there were several lol)
Yes, exactly. The issue is Disney wants to sell a bunch of books so they try and put all this background in the books and sell people on the idea that they HAVE to have these books to really get into the world of the movies. Yeah, the original and prequel movies had all sorts of books but they were supplemental to the movies but not in place of exposition in the movie itself. I should also point out that, normally, when novelizations have stuff in them that's not in the movie it's because: (1) it's narrative stuff that couldn't be done on screen (such as character's internal monologues and such) or (2) it's stuff that was cut from the movie or as part of an earlier draft (novelizations typically work from early drafts so that they can be out at the same time the movies are). Disney is trying to create a new marketing stragedy where you have to read a bunch of supporting material to really understand the movie and it backfired on them, big time.
Absolutely agree. And as far as I know, this is th first Star Wars movie novelization that was released AFTER the movie. Four months after! Why? To give them time to try and answer criticisms of the movie by explaining away inconsistencies or writing additional scenes that many wished were in the movie. Boo, you stink Disney!
Yeah, that is not how novelizations are supposed to work. In fact, mostly they start writing them from the first draft of the script, which is why a lot of the time they include stuff that was later re-written or cut out entirely and they do that because they're supposed to come out the same time as the movie. Disney has a really backward way of doing that kind of thing. They think they can sell books by pushing the idea that you have to read the books in order to fully enjoy the movies but that is not how it works. Now, they see why it doesn't work that way.
Biggest thing is instead of getting a proper Episode VII and Episode VIII, we have reboots of Episodes IV and V. With the trend we see, I think it's safe to say Episode IX will be a reboot of Episode VI. And while I feel Rogue One is the best thing Lucasfilm has produced since being owned by Disney, the film did rely on various imagery that was from the OT, from Vader being there, to the Death Star, though that makes sense due to them getting the Death Star plans, and other things that while were cool to see, might not have been entirely necessary to the overall film's story and was just put in there for the nostalgic factor that Disney and Lucasfilm want to have in Star Wars now. I and many others want originality. I've often said I'm a fan of the prequels, and while I get why people aren't fond of them, I've seen people who don't like the prequels say that at least those films had originality and did it's best to expand the Star Wars universe and not regress the series like what's happening now.
Joseph Campbell and Leigh Brackett have never been so missed. Those two were major keys to the original trilogy’s success. That’s why Disney can’t get it right.
Scott The Artist Or Lucas' first wife. I'd say it's a Shame SJWs never mention her but it's Almost like they care more about physical features than Actual Talent.
Jason Shannon I'm watching some videos now. I'm in between the two at 34 years of age but I relate to them both very much. Retro has some serious passion and awesome vintage stuff I'm watching the b-wing wing restoration right now.
Commander Osis Glad to hear it. I can relate too! I'm 35. It's been hard to digest the new films. But all the cartoon/toy videos from Retroblasting are highly recommend. Tmnt, Indiana Jones, Star Wars follies, any panel they've recored, Kenner Super Powers, M.a.s.k. etc etc. You could be there a while. :)
Jason Shannon yeah I was a star wars gi Joe and tmnt kid. I still have all my star wars vehicles and micro machines from the special edition runs and my Joe's and cobras and turtles with vehicles. Toys were bigger and better then. I remember how much I hated power rangers. By the time they came out I got into PC gaming and toys became kinda outdated. Tie fighter is still my favorite game to this day
+Existent David The largest thing i was looking forward to in ep 7 and 8 was seeing how the empire fragmented without a leader and different splinter factions formed. some may be extremists, others could even work with a new republic that trys to build a government out of the rebellion. I wanted to see the huts and crime in genral flurish without the empires control. hell ep 7 could have had none of that and as long as they brought a new dramatic shift to the star wars galaxy i would have loved it. i would have just ate it all up. im not sure what i got but its not a new story, hell im not even sure it qualifies as a story.
WRONG. George Lucas created the EU, and PERSONALLY assigned writers to write stories, like the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire and Shadows of the Empire. George Lucas decided those, so now matter what you say, those are canon. FFS, George went as far as to put the Outrider into the Special edition of A New Hope! It's canon, go fuck yourself.
How dare he insult the 90s midi score. The games (especially xwing and tie fighter Sims) had ten times more soul than these shit Disney movies and star wars games. Lucasarts games used to be synonymous with quality, depth and richness 😛
Carlos Lopez kotaku will never get a click from me. I live in San Francisco and know people that worked at lucasarts. I know the disarray there especially from force unleashed on.
The Emperor dark forces 2 Jedi knight am I right? those games hold up today and should be remastered and or remastered again in the case of x wing and tie fighter.
I'd like to piggy back on Mike's comment about how there was literally no "good pandering" or playing to the expectations that fans had developed over almost 40 years. When the buzz came back that Luke would not really be in "The Force Awakens" I said I could not be bothered with the time and expense of going to see it, and people called me on having too many preconceptions and expectations going in and it was my personal problem. It seems like the apologists and critics pushing the new films fail to realize that of course we all have expectations, we've lived with these characters for 40 years and Disney is banking on our expectations to get us to the theater or they wouldn't have paid 4 billion dollars for the right to put the words "Star Wars" on the title.
Man, thought I was gonna watch about 10 minutes of this, was disappointed when it ended. You guys covered various points I've been saying since I saw TFA with more of an eye towards film and toys. One of the things I think that was missed is part of the reason there was still a SW following in the 'dark times' was because of the books. They weren't all great but what they did do was flesh out the SW universe while there were no cartoons or movies being made. This was part of the reason I was a bit upset with Lucas during the prequels (and I'd guess I wasn't alone) as for the longest time he was hands off with canon, then basically threw (lets be nice and say) a lot if not all of it out the window once he made the prequels. That said you guys pointed out what I've been saying, I might not have loved them, but there was at least a coherent story that made sense to the SW universe. TFA was trash, TLJ was worse and I've lost interest in SW at this point. Which is sad cause some of the first books I read were Star Wars books and I've loved SW for 30+ years. Maybe in the future these will be the 'sad times' to go along with the dark times, or maybe Disney wont get it together and will just make SW into Transformers and just pump out bad movies and make it totally irrelevant from a story telling perspective. I was less of a fan of the toys (didn't have the money as a kid, I could always get books at the library though!) so I'm interested in the follow up to this.
Erastus Mwandingi well we can only hope. Some of the mouth breathers are turning away so let us fight the good fight, stay the course, and keep the faith🤘
That part about no story to tell is so true. "Star Wars" doesn't haven't anymore stories to tell. "Return of the Jedi" was the end, there's nothing else to do and they're trying to pump out movies just to make money.
Chris McWilliams Outside of the original Expanded Universe material, there really is nothing else they can do with the Star Wars franchise. If I really need to satisfy my need for a sequel to Return of the Jedi, I'll stick to Heir to the Empire (and the other parts of the Thrawn trilogy).
Yeah, they're just beating a dead horse at this point. There isn't any more story left so they're pulling things out of their asses like creating a new group to be like the Empire and somehow making the characters like the Rebellion again and getting rid of all the original characters to replace them with pale copies. It's sort of like what "Star Trek" has been doing where, instead of doing stuff set after the shows, they keep trying to do stuff set before the shows, for whatever reason.
Still listening to the podcast, but I have to comment so I don't forget. But when the one guy was going through the story lines of the characters in the force awakens and now the last Jedi, it was an epiphany. These films are pushing death of the patriarchy. Death of the old white men hwhom never changed ifor the better. I'm not sure if it's Disney that's more politicizing or Lucasfilm and Kathy Kennedy but it's all politicized now. They're doing the worst thing in business which is telling the customers what they should like and want, pushing their agenda. Now they're even demonizing the fans that have paid money over the years for this franchise. Fanboys is now a bad word apparently. Such dicks.
Who would of thought we would be in this state with Star Wars 5 months ago!?. Where the hell! did it all go wrong? I just can't bring myself to watch Episode 7!. anymore; and I loved that movie, the ending mainly: that is!. Disney, what have you done?.
you could say the only good thing disney star wars has done is make money, but even that doesn't seem to be the case right now which makes it even more laughable
My earliest Star Wars memory was watching Empire with my dad in my bedroom at age 3. I remember him explaining to me that the 4,5,6 where made before 1,2,3. I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters with my dad, and fell asleep 40 minutes in. I’ve read many of the EU books and played many of the games. My dad still plays the original Battlefronts on PS2. Force Awakens is special to me, in that it was the first time I was able to see the Falcon, TIE Fighters, X-Wings, Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie on the the big screen. When the Falcon took flight, I clapped. When Han and Chewie found her I had a grin on my face. When Han and Leia reunited and the Empire love theme played, I had tears. When Han died, I screamed out NO. When Luke pulled back his hood, I was overjoyed to see my childhood hero on the big screen. I enjoy the Force Awakens, for these memories. I can admit it has problems. I loved Rogue One, it was awesome seeing the OT Stormtroopers, Star Destroyers, TIEs. The Vader scenes were amazing. I was exited for Last Jedi, I wanted to enjoy it. I didn’t. My reaction to the end was the same as Mark Hamill’s. My first Star Wars figure was the OTC X-Wing Pilot Luke. My younger brother ate the head of it, after he pulled the limbs off. That was still a better treatment of Luke Skywalker than what they did to him in Last Jedi.
Rok Hamler The prequels can also stand on their own, they were creative and had their own ideas and in relation to the OT (which I don't like) it gave it depth and enriched it's universe.
SOLO is like 3 months out yet I see NO TOYS in stores. Having old toys from TFW collecting dust in stores had a part in this. Now they are vanishing from Big Lots, all I saw was two General Sux figures for $4.75. That is too much for him, for a character that DOES NOTHING but whine and bitch at Kylo "Emo Git" Ren.
Question, does Johnson make you wish they stuck with JJ for all three despite you not liking him? Frankly I think Johnson's treatment made JJ's movie look a lot better in comparison.
Great discussion guys! Can’t wait to hear the discussion on the removal of blasters from the ‘Solo’ posters. WCB is gonna have to hire a full staff to keep up with all the stupidity 🤣
I was a fan as a kid during the time when star wasn't really a big thing anymore, and I got to enjoy the resurgence, I was very much enjoying the franchise. The wonderful games, the EU books, the films being re-released on vhs and then again as the special editions and then the prequels. Everyone knew it, my family knew friends knew and I was that Star Wars guy. Now when I'm asked about it by my family I just have to tell them I'm not really into it anymore. I don't have the heart or the patience to tell them that I hate what's become of things.
Mr. Bear ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ This is exactly where I'm at. In a way I'm glad since Star Wars used to comprise 90% of the media I consumed. Now I'm free to enjoy lots of better things since Star Wars has basically no place in my house anymore.
Salty Green Milk Beast brave? That point of view is the accepted point of view on this channel. Brave would be saying TFA was very entertaining, but TLJ sucked.
No, lip, because that is in line with something that would be acceptable to the SJW mob. You are still giving them a piece. So, no, fool, The brave thing is to call this Propaganda by its true name each time.
Salty Green Milk Beast Right? I follow Geeks and Gamers and the guy destroys TLJ everyday but praises TFA and I'm like "what the fuck dude?" They're the same shit.
This is one of those rare crossovers that I live for. Hello to both of you, and please don't make this be the only time you two talk (this podcast being split up into parts aside).
I love your analysis of JarJar Abrams - almost exactly what I had to say about his treatment of Star Trek: Into Darkness. As violated you were by TFA, that was ME after having seen ST:ID. I was a TREKKER back in the day and having suffered extreme disappointment by The Star Trek Movie that produced a clunker mcguffin like V'ger, The Wrath of Khan was not only a 180 direction, but a MASTERPIECE of everything that I loved about Star Trek. It had me weeping and coming out of the theatre absolutely STUNNED. To see Abrams take all of that and make it into ST:ID, I said the exact same thing you said about his treatment of Star Wars: the most godawful CYNICAL and MANIPULATIVE thing Id ever seen and I was ANGRY when I walked out of ST:ID. And this was me after having given him the benefit of the doubt and feeling okay about his ST Reboot. I was prepared to see something NEW out of the revamped ST universe...thinking maybe we'd get to go through adventures with the crew all over again. Instead..."mystery boxes" and warmed over regurgitations. But I guess I must be an optimist because Id heard that Abrams loved Star Wars much better than Star Trek and so maybe I thought he'd give it some real goodness. So wrong. Well, Im going back to Thrawn and Heir to the Emprie and pretending that Disney never took advantage of Lucas' temper tantrum and turned it into the ash-pile it has become.
The other example of love / creativity of Star Wars where they got it all right I think is the original Star Tours ride. The detail is superb. Really made me believe I was in THAT galaxy for a bit.
Still haven't bought last Jedi. The last piece of starwars merchandise I'm going to buy is the 6in black series Jaina Solo Fel, that sounds like a good send off. Maybe I might get some expanded universe books too.
I can quit anytime I want guys. Okay just one more fix to quit the right way! Oh man I had a really bad day, just one more fix and I’ll quit tomorrow. Aww geez man I was gonna quit last week but I got an offer on some really cheap smack and I would be stupid to pass it up. I hate this stuff anyway, it’s all bad now. Oh what’s that? Limited edition imperial guardsman? Oh I’m totally quitting after this one!
Very cathartic to listen to. Have you guys ever looked at The Simpsons and how it became Zombie Simpsons when the creator left. All it takes for something great to turn into total shit is for the creator to relinquish control of it. Profiteers take over, output ramps up and quality control goes out the window. Look at all the shitty Hollywood sequels that ruined their franchises, Star Wars was a lucky exception to this because of Lucas's unusual negotiation to keep sequel rights. So Star Wars isn't unique here, but it has perhaps the most grand and tragic arc of all, as it flies down the shitter after 40 years.
Awesome video, guys! Great commentary. Just when I think I've heard everything there is possible to say about the Star Wars debacle, I hear new, interesting points of view. Also, I will not be seeing Solo. Even if I had been interested in just a fun popcorn movie before, I cannot in good faith give any more of my money to Kathleen Kennedy's Lucas.
Lazy and disrespectful, that's why I hate those new movies so much.....seems many of my friends couldn't see that, and they called themselves "long time fans". Gee.
Hadn't been to a Toys R Us since 2003 and the very last thing I bought from this store was a PS 2 title. Boy, I remembered how successful this place use to be back in the 90s along with arcades, Saturday morning cartoons, pagers, hot pockets and anything related to that era. This is the death of a giant, and it will be missed.
I just wanted to add a little comment about what all the previous movies had in common that was a good thing. they may have had different directors in them all, but they all had George Lucas behind them making sure they stayed true to the characters I think these new movies need someone behind them to watch them because these guys are just let loose on the films to do what they want.
KISS...four guys in stage costumes and makeup? Are they still going? I thought they were in cryosleep until the next anniversary. J/k I really like their stuff.
Michael, your description of TFA is *exactly* how I felt about Abrams first Trek film (and "Alone at Sea" from SU, but that's another kettle of gefelte fish). What is it with "popular" creators who *cannot make something honest?* Is it...because they themselves have so little to offer from their own experiences that they *need* to trick the audience to even attempt to tell a story?
I went to a UK Toys R Us, which is closing down. The entire place had been picked clean. It was empty. However, there was tonnes of Last Jedi Star Wars toys and particularly lots of Rose 3.75 inch figures. Even with a 30% fire sale discount they're not selling.
gonna go to Disney with some friends in a few months (one interned down there and has tickets to get in to the parks), gonna see how many unsold Star Wars toys are in the gift shops, it'll be interesting to compare their own park shops to Targets, Krogers and other stores across the U.S
Han, Chewie, and the Millennium Falcon should've went out like Randy Quaid in Independence Day.
Or he should have been buried at sea on New Alderaan inside the Millenium Falcon, with Queen Leia Organa conducting the ceremony.
Now doesn't that sound like a better movie, already?
Hello boys on back
Jaybee Anything would of been better than the way he went out, even an epic gunfight with some thugs or gangsters, anything, but no he went out like a bitch (like luke). It's all part of Disney's plan to remove the old and bring in the new, they could of "passed the baton" to the new generation without killing off the old characters, so disrespectful.
Exactly. They should've all three gone out in a blaze of glory. They really seem to hate the original characters and just can't get rid of them fast enough and don't want to give them even a second of glory or heroic power.
Only at the end maybe, this sequel trilogy flounders without the original characters
“Long’s not a bad thing, ask your mom”
This, this is why I love WCBS...
TheGhostLegend001 hahaha. Sick Poe Dameron joke.
It is when your Mauler......
The idea that Star Wars fans don't like strong female characters is insane. As you pointed out Leia and Ahsoka are fan favorites. Not to mention characters that were destroyed to make room for the new Star Wars. By the end of the EU story telling Jaina Solo was straight up running things. Rey is a shadow of the character that Jaina was, but she developed into the character. And I never heard anyone complain. Not once. Mara Jade was LOVED!! Tahiri Veila was a good character, Winter is a great character, Mirax is a great character. There are tons of great female heroes and even great female villains.
I have yet to see a female character in these new stories that come close to any of the ones before them. Not one.
Don't forget Ventress
I had a crush on Asajj Ventress when I was a teen
The best female star wars character
Kreia
Albedo +1 for Kreia
RIP Admiral Daala
I've been re-reading the Timothy Zhan's trilogy to cleanse my palette after seeing The Last Jedi. WCB is a great cure as well!
If you want something related to the prequels check out Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. Such a badass book.
I’ve brought up the theme to many a SW fan, only for them to attempt to cut my head off. THANK YOU
Awww, was enjoying your conversation until I realized the video has come to an end! Look forward to part 2, hope next part will be longer.
Ryan Tran sweet starkiller pic
Star Wars lost me when in TFA, Kylo Ren stopped energy in mid air ---- ENERGY ---- yet he lost to Mary Sue Rey. Yep, he can manipulate sub atomic particles, but lose to an untrained 100 pound woman.
I don’t get? What’s so maddening about that?
Guys, I was trying to watch something else and I got your notification. You know I can't resist you!
Who needs storytelling when you have SOCIAL JUSTICE?
Meh. The movie was panned by social justice advocates, too. Star Wars has always been political - it's a rather conservative series about justified war, after all. But it was always far more careful about its political messaging. The problem with TLJ is not that it was political, the problem is that it was sloppy and ham-handed.
What social justice advocates panned it? Not being a smart ass I'm curious. The people I know that are SJW's unconditionally loved this film.
That depends on who you call SJW.
Rich Mackey Me. I’m as lefty and feminist as it gets and I hated it. So did almost all of my lefty friends.
Christopher Fowler , who needs a penor when you have SOCIAL JUSTICE?!
Jar Jar Abrams is creatively bankrupt but Ranal Johnson is basically a blackhole of creativity. Everything looks cool while its being crushed until you realized the cool things are being consumed by the black hole. KK is pretty much dark matter and shouldnt exist.
Nathan D lol more like Jew Jew binks
Great euphemisms.....for the people who ruined why boys once loved.
Fuck them both and give me Lucas's films anyday.
TLJ = ROTJ + ESB + Battlestar Galactica.
You were right Jeff. I asked my mom and she said long is a very good thing.
Coming on this page every other few days and seeing your subscription count go up definitely puts a smile on my face I love this page and knew when I first found it that you guys would be getting more popular
As someone who actually saw the original Star Wars at the theater back in the 70s, Rogue One is the only Disney movie I consider canon.
Amelia Ward Rouge One is on the council, but we do not grant it master
DIsney wars is NOT Luke skywalker, he's JAKE Skywalker. Get it right.
暗黒騎士 Ankokukishi Disney Wars is a inappropriate name. Crap Wars is more fitting.
More like "terrible late 90s fan fiction"
Crap Wars is just two words vs your five.
:)
Oh I know, but I am trying to protect the name of star wars by using different terminology. Could just call it "Lazy fanfic" ;)
I'll do you one better: Star Bores
"Star Wars fans watch these things in a sequence, it's a saga. You can't soft reboot in the middle of a saga." and "There is nothing that the next movie can do that will be substantive enough to save this experience." Oh. My. Gosh. The very things I have been saying for the last two plus years.
Meh...
I showed my girlfriend the original trilogy for the first time. I honestly distanced myself from the franchise after rogue one. I’m not a fan of anything coming out today. When we sat down, not only did she fall in love with the movies, but I rediscovered why I loved Star Wars so much. Good triumphing evil, conflict between father and son, and family. When we finished Return of the Jedi, I felt happy as did she.
The funny part was, my girlfriend immediately wanted an Ewok plush. I quickly hoped on amazon to see if there were any available. The realization that there weren’t many original trilogy products on shelves made me wished that Disney never bought Lucasfilm
What pisses me off is people who say that you have to read all these books and outside stuff to understand the movie. That's not how movie are supposed to work. They're supposed to be self contained and Disney doesn't do self contained.
Thank you! I've been saying the same thing. Novelizations with a little more content are fine in my opinion, but when the novelization for TLJ was written basically as a TLJ 0.1 companion and adding material that should have been in the film to fill plot holes, maybe TLJ would have had more positive reviews.
No one mourned Han, so what should happened? A memorial at least. Anakin died seeing his son's face without the helmet, Luke gave him a respectful death on the pyre in Return of the Jedi.
Leia, Chewie, Rey should have mourned him on screen! Hell, Chewie, owed a life debt to Han, and he had to watch his best friend die as he watched, and he didn't even get a damn hug of sympathy from Leia, Han's wife and another good friend of Chewie's!
(That's one the most important problems I had with it, there were several lol)
It's like microtransactions. Pay for additional content.
Yes, exactly. The issue is Disney wants to sell a bunch of books so they try and put all this background in the books and sell people on the idea that they HAVE to have these books to really get into the world of the movies.
Yeah, the original and prequel movies had all sorts of books but they were supplemental to the movies but not in place of exposition in the movie itself.
I should also point out that, normally, when novelizations have stuff in them that's not in the movie it's because: (1) it's narrative stuff that couldn't be done on screen (such as character's internal monologues and such) or (2) it's stuff that was cut from the movie or as part of an earlier draft (novelizations typically work from early drafts so that they can be out at the same time the movies are).
Disney is trying to create a new marketing stragedy where you have to read a bunch of supporting material to really understand the movie and it backfired on them, big time.
Absolutely agree. And as far as I know, this is th first Star Wars movie novelization that was released AFTER the movie. Four months after! Why? To give them time to try and answer criticisms of the movie by explaining away inconsistencies or writing additional scenes that many wished were in the movie. Boo, you stink Disney!
Yeah, that is not how novelizations are supposed to work. In fact, mostly they start writing them from the first draft of the script, which is why a lot of the time they include stuff that was later re-written or cut out entirely and they do that because they're supposed to come out the same time as the movie.
Disney has a really backward way of doing that kind of thing. They think they can sell books by pushing the idea that you have to read the books in order to fully enjoy the movies but that is not how it works. Now, they see why it doesn't work that way.
Biggest thing is instead of getting a proper Episode VII and Episode VIII, we have reboots of Episodes IV and V. With the trend we see, I think it's safe to say Episode IX will be a reboot of Episode VI. And while I feel Rogue One is the best thing Lucasfilm has produced since being owned by Disney, the film did rely on various imagery that was from the OT, from Vader being there, to the Death Star, though that makes sense due to them getting the Death Star plans, and other things that while were cool to see, might not have been entirely necessary to the overall film's story and was just put in there for the nostalgic factor that Disney and Lucasfilm want to have in Star Wars now. I and many others want originality. I've often said I'm a fan of the prequels, and while I get why people aren't fond of them, I've seen people who don't like the prequels say that at least those films had originality and did it's best to expand the Star Wars universe and not regress the series like what's happening now.
5 minutes in and this is the essential listening
this is NOT Michael Unplugged, this is Michael Unleashed. great job to all involved.
Joseph Campbell and Leigh Brackett have never been so missed. Those two were major keys to the original trilogy’s success. That’s why Disney can’t get it right.
Don't forget Ralph McQuarrie, the illustrator responsible for the look of Star Wars and most of the main characters.
Scott The Artist Or Lucas' first wife.
I'd say it's a Shame SJWs never mention her but it's Almost like they care more about physical features than Actual Talent.
Leigh Bracket's script was horrible; Lucas basically rewrote it from scratch, then brought in Kasdan.
they have people that do Science fiction and Comedies doing movies that require a Team and Director that does Fantasy and Westerns.
The Joseph Campbell influence made Star Wars feel timeless. Kathleen and Disney hate good archetypes though so the new movies will continue to fail.
This guy is awesome. Great collaboration. Definitely gonna check him out. Dude knows his stuff
Commander Osis Retroblasting Rocks!
Jason Shannon I'm watching some videos now. I'm in between the two at 34 years of age but I relate to them both very much. Retro has some serious passion and awesome vintage stuff I'm watching the b-wing wing restoration right now.
Commander Osis Glad to hear it. I can relate too! I'm 35. It's been hard to digest the new films.
But all the cartoon/toy videos from Retroblasting are highly recommend. Tmnt, Indiana Jones, Star Wars follies, any panel they've recored, Kenner Super Powers, M.a.s.k. etc etc.
You could be there a while. :)
Jason Shannon yeah I was a star wars gi Joe and tmnt kid. I still have all my star wars vehicles and micro machines from the special edition runs and my Joe's and cobras and turtles with vehicles. Toys were bigger and better then. I remember how much I hated power rangers. By the time they came out I got into PC gaming and toys became kinda outdated. Tie fighter is still my favorite game to this day
Fantastic! Looking forward to Part II.
TLJ has no payoff from TFW, they did things that should have happened in the 3rd film. You do not kill off the main villain in the middle of Act 2.
Gary Burnaska snoke was a red herring, the actual main villain is kylo ren
Doofy who is unbelievable as the main villain given that Rey can beat him no problem.
'The force is woke'...
+Bjørn Halfhand facts
chewbaca used to like meat enough to fall into an ewok trap, now he's lisa simpson not eating animals because they are cute...
Gonna watch it in the morning. I can’t wait. Dark Italian Roast and the Bullshitters. Its better than GMA!
The drive to work has never been so enjoyable.
Joshua Long I'm saving it for my drive tomorrow too
WCB makes my commute my favorite part of my day
Long live star wars legends, the only true post ep 6 story.
Kyber Cat I agree the EU post Episode VI story just felt more natural and developed just as what really seemed likely to happen.
+Existent David The largest thing i was looking forward to in ep 7 and 8 was seeing how the empire fragmented without a leader and different splinter factions formed. some may be extremists, others could even work with a new republic that trys to build a government out of the rebellion. I wanted to see the huts and crime in genral flurish without the empires control.
hell ep 7 could have had none of that and as long as they brought a new dramatic shift to the star wars galaxy i would have loved it. i would have just ate it all up.
im not sure what i got but its not a new story, hell im not even sure it qualifies as a story.
Zahn Trilogy
And this is why Disney Wars is NOT canon and just a fanfic. The #TrueEU is the true star wars universe.
WRONG. George Lucas created the EU, and PERSONALLY assigned writers to write stories, like the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire and Shadows of the Empire. George Lucas decided those, so now matter what you say, those are canon. FFS, George went as far as to put the Outrider into the Special edition of A New Hope! It's canon, go fuck yourself.
That's what Disney is and has always been, the single-most successful fanfic peddler in entertainment history.
I love that the Outrider was included.
Priceless video. Thank you very much for you guys. Your honesty is amazing.
How dare he insult the 90s midi score. The games (especially xwing and tie fighter Sims) had ten times more soul than these shit Disney movies and star wars games. Lucasarts games used to be synonymous with quality, depth and richness 😛
Carlos Lopez kotaku will never get a click from me. I live in San Francisco and know people that worked at lucasarts. I know the disarray there especially from force unleashed on.
I survived High School thanks to those games.
The Emperor dark forces 2 Jedi knight am I right? those games hold up today and should be remastered and or remastered again in the case of x wing and tie fighter.
They should have done Dark Forces for Rogue One but instead of adapting it, they steal better ideas for their movie
The Emperor you mean worse ideas? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say otherwise.
This has made this lonesome boring night at work enjoyable!
I'd like to piggy back on Mike's comment about how there was literally no "good pandering" or playing to the expectations that fans had developed over almost 40 years.
When the buzz came back that Luke would not really be in "The Force Awakens" I said I could not be bothered with the time and expense of going to see it, and people called me on having too many preconceptions and expectations going in and it was my personal problem.
It seems like the apologists and critics pushing the new films fail to realize that of course we all have expectations, we've lived with these characters for 40 years and Disney is banking on our expectations to get us to the theater or they wouldn't have paid 4 billion dollars for the right to put the words "Star Wars" on the title.
Man, thought I was gonna watch about 10 minutes of this, was disappointed when it ended. You guys covered various points I've been saying since I saw TFA with more of an eye towards film and toys. One of the things I think that was missed is part of the reason there was still a SW following in the 'dark times' was because of the books. They weren't all great but what they did do was flesh out the SW universe while there were no cartoons or movies being made. This was part of the reason I was a bit upset with Lucas during the prequels (and I'd guess I wasn't alone) as for the longest time he was hands off with canon, then basically threw (lets be nice and say) a lot if not all of it out the window once he made the prequels. That said you guys pointed out what I've been saying, I might not have loved them, but there was at least a coherent story that made sense to the SW universe.
TFA was trash, TLJ was worse and I've lost interest in SW at this point. Which is sad cause some of the first books I read were Star Wars books and I've loved SW for 30+ years. Maybe in the future these will be the 'sad times' to go along with the dark times, or maybe Disney wont get it together and will just make SW into Transformers and just pump out bad movies and make it totally irrelevant from a story telling perspective.
I was less of a fan of the toys (didn't have the money as a kid, I could always get books at the library though!) so I'm interested in the follow up to this.
WCB & Retroblasting?!?!? YES!!!!!!!!!
If solo tanks? Of course it will. We need to let it die, it will hurt but this will be the best way forward.
I don't think it will. And that's the sad part.
Erastus Mwandingi well we can only hope. Some of the mouth breathers are turning away so let us fight the good fight, stay the course, and keep the faith🤘
Kill it, if we have to.
Winning combo!
That part about no story to tell is so true. "Star Wars" doesn't haven't anymore stories to tell. "Return of the Jedi" was the end, there's nothing else to do and they're trying to pump out movies just to make money.
Chris McWilliams
Outside of the original Expanded Universe material, there really is nothing else they can do with the Star Wars franchise. If I really need to satisfy my need for a sequel to Return of the Jedi, I'll stick to Heir to the Empire (and the other parts of the Thrawn trilogy).
Yeah, they're just beating a dead horse at this point. There isn't any more story left so they're pulling things out of their asses like creating a new group to be like the Empire and somehow making the characters like the Rebellion again and getting rid of all the original characters to replace them with pale copies.
It's sort of like what "Star Trek" has been doing where, instead of doing stuff set after the shows, they keep trying to do stuff set before the shows, for whatever reason.
48 minutes well spent. Loved Michael's insights. Don't leave us hanging too long for Part 2.
In just 1 hour this episode already has more views than anything in the Disney sponsored Making Star Wars shill podcast network.
This was great to hear Mike from Retroblasting on this topic.
We also have to consider that Ep 8 ends with an Very Angry Guy that has his hands on a Very Big Ship, that will probably Blow Up Some Planet...
Not sure if your aware of this but Disney edited the blasters out of the Solo: A Star Wars Story movie posters.
Castration?
Still listening to the podcast, but I have to comment so I don't forget. But when the one guy was going through the story lines of the characters in the force awakens and now the last Jedi, it was an epiphany. These films are pushing death of the patriarchy. Death of the old white men hwhom never changed ifor the better. I'm not sure if it's Disney that's more politicizing or Lucasfilm and Kathy Kennedy but it's all politicized now.
They're doing the worst thing in business which is telling the customers what they should like and want, pushing their agenda. Now they're even demonizing the fans that have paid money over the years for this franchise. Fanboys is now a bad word apparently. Such dicks.
Who would of thought we would be in this state with Star Wars 5 months ago!?. Where the hell! did it all go wrong? I just can't bring myself to watch Episode 7!. anymore; and I loved that movie, the ending mainly: that is!. Disney, what have you done?.
Breakin out the popcorn for this one
Great discussion guys! I'm gonna go ahead and subscribe to this dude, cuz he was on fire!
you could say the only good thing disney star wars has done is make money, but even that doesn't seem to be the case right now which makes it even more laughable
My Face Is Tired that forced romance thing was super dumb and everyone i've talked to agrees, even the people who liked the movie
My earliest Star Wars memory was watching Empire with my dad in my bedroom at age 3. I remember him explaining to me that the 4,5,6 where made before 1,2,3. I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters with my dad, and fell asleep 40 minutes in. I’ve read many of the EU books and played many of the games. My dad still plays the original Battlefronts on PS2. Force Awakens is special to me, in that it was the first time I was able to see the Falcon, TIE Fighters, X-Wings, Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie on the the big screen. When the Falcon took flight, I clapped. When Han and Chewie found her I had a grin on my face. When Han and Leia reunited and the Empire love theme played, I had tears. When Han died, I screamed out NO. When Luke pulled back his hood, I was overjoyed to see my childhood hero on the big screen. I enjoy the Force Awakens, for these memories. I can admit it has problems. I loved Rogue One, it was awesome seeing the OT Stormtroopers, Star Destroyers, TIEs. The Vader scenes were amazing. I was exited for Last Jedi, I wanted to enjoy it. I didn’t. My reaction to the end was the same as Mark Hamill’s. My first Star Wars figure was the OTC X-Wing Pilot Luke. My younger brother ate the head of it, after he pulled the limbs off. That was still a better treatment of Luke Skywalker than what they did to him in Last Jedi.
RIP Star Wars 1977-2012 :'(
FuturisticEggThief nah as a movie franchise it ended in 1983 with Return of the jedi. It was complete without any need for prequels or sequals.
True.
Rok Hamler prequel era is more interesting than galactic civil war in OT
Rok Hamler The prequels can also stand on their own, they were creative and had their own ideas and in relation to the OT (which I don't like) it gave it depth and enriched it's universe.
The prequels can only stand as a trilogy, the only one that stands alone as a single movie is The Phantom menace אנונימית אנונימי
SOLO is like 3 months out yet I see NO TOYS in stores. Having old toys from TFW collecting dust in stores had a part in this. Now they are vanishing from Big Lots, all I saw was two General Sux figures for $4.75. That is too much for him, for a character that DOES NOTHING but whine and bitch at Kylo "Emo Git" Ren.
It's about 2 months out.
Never have I jumped to RUclips using the bell notification so fast before as I do now when I see the Bullshitters uploading.
Rakatan Lord Yeah! I always wait with baited breath for my next fix of WCBS!!!
Question, does Johnson make you wish they stuck with JJ for all three despite you not liking him? Frankly I think Johnson's treatment made JJ's movie look a lot better in comparison.
Great discussion guys! Can’t wait to hear the discussion on the removal of blasters from the ‘Solo’ posters.
WCB is gonna have to hire a full staff to keep up with all the stupidity 🤣
the prequels changed boba fetts backstory to be clone but comapring that to weaponized hyperdrive lol
I was a fan as a kid during the time when star wasn't really a big thing anymore, and I got to enjoy the resurgence, I was very much enjoying the franchise. The wonderful games, the EU books, the films being re-released on vhs and then again as the special editions and then the prequels. Everyone knew it, my family knew friends knew and I was that Star Wars guy. Now when I'm asked about it by my family I just have to tell them I'm not really into it anymore. I don't have the heart or the patience to tell them that I hate what's become of things.
Mr. Bear ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ This is exactly where I'm at. In a way I'm glad since Star Wars used to comprise 90% of the media I consumed. Now I'm free to enjoy lots of better things since Star Wars has basically no place in my house anymore.
Glad to hear someone brave enough to admit that both TFA and TLJ are terrible.
Salty Green Milk Beast in a way TFA is more insulting. It just recreats episode 4, almost shot for shot. It really pissed me off.
Indeed!
Salty Green Milk Beast brave? That point of view is the accepted point of view on this channel. Brave would be saying TFA was very entertaining, but TLJ sucked.
No, lip, because that is in line with something that would be acceptable to the SJW mob. You are still giving them a piece. So, no, fool, The brave thing is to call this Propaganda by its true name each time.
Salty Green Milk Beast Right? I follow Geeks and Gamers and the guy destroys TLJ everyday but praises TFA and I'm like "what the fuck dude?" They're the same shit.
Retroblasting and world class BS I love it!! Great interview!
Just listened to this whole fascinating talk on your Patreon! Membership has it's privileges indeed! Awesome!
This is one of those rare crossovers that I live for. Hello to both of you, and please don't make this be the only time you two talk (this podcast being split up into parts aside).
What I want to hear in the new Trilogy? "Everybody knows Luke and Han Solo died in their sleep." Those stories about MaRey SUe are only LEGENDS
I love your analysis of JarJar Abrams - almost exactly what I had to say about his treatment of Star Trek: Into Darkness. As violated you were by TFA, that was ME after having seen ST:ID. I was a TREKKER back in the day and having suffered extreme disappointment by The Star Trek Movie that produced a clunker mcguffin like V'ger, The Wrath of Khan was not only a 180 direction, but a MASTERPIECE of everything that I loved about Star Trek. It had me weeping and coming out of the theatre absolutely STUNNED. To see Abrams take all of that and make it into ST:ID, I said the exact same thing you said about his treatment of Star Wars: the most godawful CYNICAL and MANIPULATIVE thing Id ever seen and I was ANGRY when I walked out of ST:ID. And this was me after having given him the benefit of the doubt and feeling okay about his ST Reboot. I was prepared to see something NEW out of the revamped ST universe...thinking maybe we'd get to go through adventures with the crew all over again. Instead..."mystery boxes" and warmed over regurgitations.
But I guess I must be an optimist because Id heard that Abrams loved Star Wars much better than Star Trek and so maybe I thought he'd give it some real goodness.
So wrong.
Well, Im going back to Thrawn and Heir to the Emprie and pretending that Disney never took advantage of Lucas' temper tantrum and turned it into the ash-pile it has become.
I love bullshitters!
YES!!!!!! I was hoping this would happen when you proposed it on FB.
The other example of love / creativity of Star Wars where they got it all right I think is the original Star Tours ride. The detail is superb. Really made me believe I was in THAT galaxy for a bit.
Still haven't bought last Jedi. The last piece of starwars merchandise I'm going to buy is the 6in black series Jaina Solo Fel, that sounds like a good send off. Maybe I might get some expanded universe books too.
The x-wing series books are my favorite thing from the expanded universe. The first 8 at least. The 9th and 10th we unneeded cash-ins
I can quit anytime I want guys.
Okay just one more fix to quit the right way!
Oh man I had a really bad day, just one more fix and I’ll quit tomorrow.
Aww geez man I was gonna quit last week but I got an offer on some really cheap smack and I would be stupid to pass it up.
I hate this stuff anyway, it’s all bad now.
Oh what’s that? Limited edition imperial guardsman? Oh I’m totally quitting after this one!
Very cathartic to listen to. Have you guys ever looked at The Simpsons and how it became Zombie Simpsons when the creator left. All it takes for something great to turn into total shit is for the creator to relinquish control of it. Profiteers take over, output ramps up and quality control goes out the window. Look at all the shitty Hollywood sequels that ruined their franchises, Star Wars was a lucky exception to this because of Lucas's unusual negotiation to keep sequel rights. So Star Wars isn't unique here, but it has perhaps the most grand and tragic arc of all, as it flies down the shitter after 40 years.
SYSTEM ERROR It's more like every single talented person left, leaving Al Jean & Mike Weiss, who are so mediorce company men.
Rose is the phantom menace!
What a pleasant surprise I wasn't expecting Retroblasting to be here
Yes! Nothing like being snowed in and listening to WCBS.
Limegreenhulk 52 ur on the east coast too?
TheGhostLegend001
Yep
Limegreenhulk 52 yea same, we already got six inches here in jersey
TheGhostLegend001
New York (Where I happen to live) is supposed to get 10 to 18 inches.)
So looking forward to the next installment!
took every word, thought, and emotion right out of me for this podcast. Pure factorial gold
Helping the night shift go by. Thanks fellas!
@42:04 ”I am at the point where I don’t want to feed the monster anymore” pretty much sums it up....
Loved this.... WHERE IS PART 2, I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER!!!! :)
Awesome video, guys! Great commentary. Just when I think I've heard everything there is possible to say about the Star Wars debacle, I hear new, interesting points of view.
Also, I will not be seeing Solo. Even if I had been interested in just a fun popcorn movie before, I cannot in good faith give any more of my money to Kathleen Kennedy's Lucas.
Wow, this was a stellar back and forth! More please!
I'm furious to discover I didn't have notifications for this channel.
The way you’s are talking about not wanting to watch any new Star Wars anymore, is how I feel about Dr Who
I saw the time and thought it would be too long to listen to the whole thing, but it was rather enjoyable, waiting for the next one, good job guys.
Lazy and disrespectful, that's why I hate those new movies so much.....seems many of my friends couldn't see that, and they called themselves "long time fans". Gee.
李明煌 people can like the movie, stop being so elitist. You can still like the Disney films and be a true fan.
Because of this podcast i got hook to the retroblasting channel i even had their intro song stuck in my head for days
nice collab. been binging on RB for the last two weeks, imagine my shock when you announced your guest. good stuff
I walked out of force awakens angry and last jedi even more so. I feel soo much better now after listenning to you guys.
the Dream Team for toy junkies.
"Ignorance is NOT bliss any more, see what they are doing to you." Wonderful hopeful quote.
Hadn't been to a Toys R Us since 2003 and the very last thing I bought from this store was a PS 2 title. Boy, I remembered how successful this place use to be back in the 90s along with arcades, Saturday morning cartoons, pagers, hot pockets and anything related to that era. This is the death of a giant, and it will be missed.
I just wanted to add a little comment about what all the previous movies had in common that was a good thing. they may have had different directors in them all, but they all had George Lucas behind them making sure they stayed true to the characters I think these new movies need someone behind them to watch them because these guys are just let loose on the films to do what they want.
And on Clone Wars they would consult with him to make sure that the laws of physics weren't broken.
Star Wars right now kind of reminds me of the current state of KISS
ouch.
KISS...four guys in stage costumes and makeup?
Are they still going? I thought they were in cryosleep until the next anniversary.
J/k I really like their stuff.
I'd rather watch Superman snap Zod's rubbery neck in an endless loop than watch TLJ.
Never seen an entire Star Wars movie and I still sat through the entire video!! :D
Yes!!! I was hoping I wasn't the only one who noticed the opening theme at the start of TFA. It was the first time I wasnt blown away by John Williams
Michael, your description of TFA is *exactly* how I felt about Abrams first Trek film (and "Alone at Sea" from SU, but that's another kettle of gefelte fish).
What is it with "popular" creators who *cannot make something honest?* Is it...because they themselves have so little to offer from their own experiences that they *need* to trick the audience to even attempt to tell a story?
I love that you are saying all the things I've been thinking about these movies.
Your videos are amazing. Looking forward to part 2.
Also notice that music is exactly the same track from the Second Death Star run when the Falcon is inside Crait
I went to a UK Toys R Us, which is closing down. The entire place had been picked clean. It was empty. However, there was tonnes of Last Jedi Star Wars toys and particularly lots of Rose 3.75 inch figures. Even with a 30% fire sale discount they're not selling.
gonna go to Disney with some friends in a few months (one interned down there and has tickets to get in to the parks), gonna see how many unsold Star Wars toys are in the gift shops, it'll be interesting to compare their own park shops to Targets, Krogers and other stores across the U.S
Hows about a short video on the Clone Wars show and what was done right. If I'm not mistaken you haven't discussed the show yet.
This conversation was gold! Great work Jeff and ... Michael (?)