Watching it again, i want to say once more it is really appreciated, one thing though, i did not understand what is the argument to why Gyro is preferred over Setpoint ?
Ok what is Iterm relax CUTOFF... it seems to me a HUGE difference in my bounce back.. I consider myself a fairly adept PID tuner... but I just built a new quad and MAN there are things that I just can NOT figure out AT ALL. I get huge dips after a throttle punch when I cut the throttle quickly.... and I get huge bounce back after rolls which I fixed, but then I get a lot of random noise which causes weird flight artifacts... I'm PRETTY sure I've narrowed down that issue....... But this nose dip after a throttle punch NOT DURING, but after a throttle punch when I CUT the throttle heavily I cannot NO MATTER WHAT I DO get rid of it.... I don't know what iTERM relax CUTOFF is and i feel like this is a large piece of the puzzle.. BTW I use a throttle up with airmode turned off... everyone just tells me to turn on airmode but that's not the answer I'm looking for. I'm not in the mood for compromise lol.
You need to crank Anti-Gravity up and tune up you P-gains as high as you can to be Critically Damped. This video exactly conveys what the cutoff does. So I don't understand the question? Sounds like you P-gain is too low, causing an Overdamped condition which causes both of your issue (throbbles and big lag which causes I-term windup in sharp flips) Do check out tiny.cc/pidtuning
Mark, do you know where to get the latest nightly build of the Blackbox Explorer ? version 3.1 is crashing on me when opening a log file generated by BF 3.5 RC2. great video as usual and yeah hard to tell how to use iterm_relax_cutoff when either side of default value gives worse results in "gyro" mode
Great informational video as usual. Thank you Sir! And could you please share the link of Betaflight configurator 10.4? I could not find it from the release page of the project on Github.
I take it you don't need iTerm relax on for a race quad? Right? Since you're not doing flips and rolls you can just crank the I as usual and not worry about that, right?
@@uavtech No, when Error is 0 the P -term is 0. The I-term however has accumulated due to the error not being zero over the previous cycles, however invalid it might technically be for a fast move. It just seems the i-term should just maybe stop or decay really fast every time it crosses zero. Halting the accumulation seems odd because it assumes that held value from before the move is a good starting point at the end of the move, if it happens to even still be held at that point. Hence twiddling setpoints, which is still kind of awkward because you have to choose between flight styles.
I need to try this too. I'm soooo used to running low D's thanks to having started using BF back in the early days. Out of habit I've only ever run them as high as I needed to control P. Usually, no more than 35 on an axis.
I suppose what you mean by that is both physical noise and filtering? As in, make sure you have clear-well balanced motors, fresh props and a stiff frame... and then carefully nail down your filtering settings? Then you can get away with D's this high? I'm moving a Braap (stiff) to 3.5 and a Chameleon Ti (noodle) to 3.5 too. The Chameleon Ti flies well, as does my old Chameleon, but there's no question that floppy baseplate doesn't help. I'm running D's at 29 / 32 or so, and motors are getting too warm for comfort. That's in 78F weather and 4.2 pitch props.
I have a bit of a problem after flashing my FW to betaflight 4.0.2 . For some reason I cannot SAVE the I term relax in the PID Controller Settings, it just won't stayed saved. Even in the CLI it just wont save any settings for the I term relax. I cannot even type : get relax ... to set the cutoff to 11. i get invalid ERROR COMMAND
That is because you are using an F3 board and i-term relax is not included. You can use my Performance Edition Targets to have it included: github.com/spatzengr/betaflight/releases
@@uavtech Everything needs to be rewritten whether people like it or not. Electronics have changed the way everything works. Soon, people will be figuring out the meaning of life cleaner than a professional instrument used in the best orchestra.
![ARGENTINA vs. CHILE [3-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 7](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/De3AWmXzhuA/mqdefault.jpg)
Helped, as always!
been waiting for a video on the new 3.5 and the new config all week ,,, you are a gentleman and a scholar ,,much appreciated
Thanks for making these videos, the comparisons are especially useful.
Great video as always
Great informational video as usual. Thanks again!
I finally understand this. Thank you!
Point made! Brilliant!
Great work as usual. Thank you.
Please talk about abs_control and iterm_rotation
OK. will add to the list.
I should have watched this way before, now i got it :D
Greetings SkyHogRC
Watching it again, i want to say once more it is really appreciated, one thing though, i did not understand what is the argument to why Gyro is preferred over Setpoint ?
Haybeseret FPV , look at the logs - which i can send u if you want - Gyro consistently produced no bounceback.
Thanks! I thought the point you made was that the right amount of cutoff is giving the consistent results. Now i see the light 😉
Ok what is Iterm relax CUTOFF... it seems to me a HUGE difference in my bounce back.. I consider myself a fairly adept PID tuner... but I just built a new quad and MAN there are things that I just can NOT figure out AT ALL. I get huge dips after a throttle punch when I cut the throttle quickly.... and I get huge bounce back after rolls which I fixed, but then I get a lot of random noise which causes weird flight artifacts... I'm PRETTY sure I've narrowed down that issue....... But this nose dip after a throttle punch NOT DURING, but after a throttle punch when I CUT the throttle heavily I cannot NO MATTER WHAT I DO get rid of it.... I don't know what iTERM relax CUTOFF is and i feel like this is a large piece of the puzzle..
BTW I use a throttle up with airmode turned off... everyone just tells me to turn on airmode but that's not the answer I'm looking for. I'm not in the mood for compromise lol.
You need to crank Anti-Gravity up and tune up you P-gains as high as you can to be Critically Damped.
This video exactly conveys what the cutoff does. So I don't understand the question?
Sounds like you P-gain is too low, causing an Overdamped condition which causes both of your issue (throbbles and big lag which causes I-term windup in sharp flips)
Do check out tiny.cc/pidtuning
Mark, do you know where to get the latest nightly build of the Blackbox Explorer ? version 3.1 is crashing on me when opening a log file generated by BF 3.5 RC2. great video as usual and yeah hard to tell how to use iterm_relax_cutoff when either side of default value gives worse results in "gyro" mode
andwho.sytes.net:8080/job/Borisb_Blackbox_Log_Viewer/
Hopefully you can see in Gyro mode, 11 seems to be the optimum performance - for me at least.
Great informational video as usual. Thank you Sir! And could you please share the link of Betaflight configurator 10.4? I could not find it from the release page of the project on Github.
bruce Huang , andwho.sytes.net:8080/job/BorisB_BetaFlight_Configurator/
Thank you Sir！
I take it you don't need iTerm relax on for a race quad? Right? Since you're not doing flips and rolls you can just crank the I as usual and not worry about that, right?
Correct.
If the job of the iterm is to drive the steady state error to zero, seemingly every time the error hits zero the iterm should get whacked somehow.
Whacked?
When Error is 0, i-term is 0.
@@uavtech No, when Error is 0 the P -term is 0. The I-term however has accumulated due to the error not being zero over the previous cycles, however invalid it might technically be for a fast move. It just seems the i-term should just maybe stop or decay really fast every time it crosses zero. Halting the accumulation seems odd because it assumes that held value from before the move is a good starting point at the end of the move, if it happens to even still be held at that point. Hence twiddling setpoints, which is still kind of awkward because you have to choose between flight styles.
Nice to see this. I would to try it but can’t find the 10.4 version?
ci.betaflight.tech/job/BetaFlight_Configurator/
UAV Tech thank you! Can’t wait so your video about betaflight 3.5 and your recommendations😉
andwho.sytes.net:8080/job/BorisB_BetaFlight_Configurator/ for Win 32.
UAV Tech thanks!!
Nice testing! Saved a couple of hours to figure out on our own! Why those high D values at the beginning of the video?
I like high D-term to fight prop. wash and other disturbances that push my PID Error to climb.
Going to try that out. At the moment I have my D just as high as it needs to be in order to avoid P oscillating.
I need to try this too. I'm soooo used to running low D's thanks to having started using BF back in the early days. Out of habit I've only ever run them as high as I needed to control P. Usually, no more than 35 on an axis.
The key is addressing vibration noise well.
I suppose what you mean by that is both physical noise and filtering? As in, make sure you have clear-well balanced motors, fresh props and a stiff frame... and then carefully nail down your filtering settings? Then you can get away with D's this high? I'm moving a Braap (stiff) to 3.5 and a Chameleon Ti (noodle) to 3.5 too. The Chameleon Ti flies well, as does my old Chameleon, but there's no question that floppy baseplate doesn't help. I'm running D's at 29 / 32 or so, and motors are getting too warm for comfort. That's in 78F weather and 4.2 pitch props.
How do u adjust I term on pitch????
You mean tuning?
Tiny.cc/pidtuning
I have a bit of a problem after flashing my FW to betaflight 4.0.2 . For some reason I cannot SAVE the I term relax in the PID Controller Settings, it just won't stayed saved. Even in the CLI it just wont save any settings for the I term relax. I cannot even type :
get relax ... to set the cutoff to 11. i get invalid ERROR COMMAND
That is because you are using an F3 board and i-term relax is not included. You can use my Performance Edition Targets to have it included: github.com/spatzengr/betaflight/releases
@@uavtech Thank you so much for your reply and for your help. Much appreciated
Now, In August 2024
SETPOINT or GYRO ?
Setpoint.
@@uavtech ok, thanks !
Dumb question, but where can I download BF configurator 10.4? The releases page only has 10.3.1 available? Is it a release candidate somewhere else?
This is nightly build... download from here.
ci.betaflight.tech/job/BetaFlight_Configurator/
where is the windows version?
andwho.sytes.net:8080/job/BorisB_BetaFlight_Configurator/ for Windows versions.
How long until AI automatically tunes our boards?
20-yrs?
@@uavtech Everything needs to be rewritten whether people like it or not. Electronics have changed the way everything works. Soon, people will be figuring out the meaning of life cleaner than a professional instrument used in the best orchestra.
+1👍 will try `set iterm_relax = ON`