I like this simplification and reliance on the ear. The triad plus the 2 most important chord tones (now tensions) that create a penta scale is very cool.
I’ll I love this harmonic color. Another way to get there is triad pairs; major one and diminished two a minor 3rd up will yield the same result (Eb and F dim in this case)
There is an entire scale like this. The South Indian "Charu Keshi" scale. Major tetrachord on the bottom, minor tetrachord on top. Some jazz players use it as the V mode of melodic minor on an altered dom chord.
Interesting Antarblue. Thanks for sharing. That's a new one for me. I still like the idea of seeing it as existing with two different functional types of notes... melodic tension notes vs the stable, resolved triad notes. But still really cool to know there's an actual name for it. For me it's just the pentatonic scale I hear and jump for in an altered dominant situation. And yeah... it also sounds AMAZING in the V mode like you mention. Again, that's not how I organize it. For me I just think about an A major triad over G7 (G-B-D-F-A-C#-E). Gives us our fully extended G13 chord. And again, has the same two melodic tension notes... the 3rd and 7th of the chord serve to pull us back towards the triad. And oddly enough, the Eb major triad in this video and the A major triad you and I are talking about are just a tritone away from each other! :) So the 3rd and the 7th flip, and the triad jumps a tritone. Meaning this exact thing can be used over an alt dominant like G7#9#5 or can be used over the tritone sub of it... the Db13(#11,9). Very useful stuff. I'm going to have to look up this Chart Keshi scale. Thanks.
BTW - from a CST perspective this is NOT a melodic minor modal sound of itself - only if you add in the b7 (Db) do you call it unambiguously for the altered scale, without this, we are within the C natural minor/harmonic minor world, or putting a Bb (b3) over G7, say rather than A# (#9). One thing I like about this approach is it respects the blues aspect of that note. You'll find a lot of examples in the bebop canon of lines that use this sound without specifying that note. Donna Lee springs to mind... A quadrad analysis of that head would be interesting. The interesting, and revealing, thing about melodic triads is that so often they are diatonic against chromatic shell chords.
Yeah, it's more like "impressionism"... we're not full-blown stating the entire altered scale... but it's being implied. This triad can create either the 7#9#5 or the 7b13#9... and the main difference is in which melodic tension notes we add against the triad. Because we don't have the D or the Db in this pentatonic scale... it can fit into either situation.
NYC Jazz Guitar Masterclasses Barry would say play a Bb7 scale raise the Bb to a B incidentally. It’s new for me to hear that note as a tension note on Eb and not as a cadential ‘push’ towards Cm
That's what the theory says should happen, yes. And harmonically, you're correct. But melodically, the ear tells a different story. Try playing a C# note over the A7 in measure two of Blue In Green. Play the E note to D note over the G-7 chord in measure one, then resolve to the C note in the melody over A7. Now try moving that C note up to the "in" chord tone of C#. Don't overthink the theory or what you know... just listen. The C# note (major 3rd) will sound off and will want to pull back down to the C natural note. Harmony and chord tones are about stacking vertically. Melody moves horizontally through time. And the tension and resolution points are not always where you expect them to be.
Come and hang in our Melodic Triads Study Group. We have tons of free resources and monthly materials... plus lots of supportive members around the world to talk with and bounce ideas off of! www.NYCJazzGuitarMasterclasses.com/p/melodic-triads
Thanks for the feedback, Frank. Are you hearing an actual hum from my amp? Or are you talking about the sustain pedal I'm using to hold out the chord while I improvise over it? I'm not hearing a hum in the sense of a grounding or electrical issue. I think you mean the chord. Sorry if it bugs you. It's important when doing melodic ear training to keep a harmonic context in mind. I use the sustain pedal to hold down a simple chord while playing around with melodic triad ideas to create a similar effect of a piano player holding down a chord in their left hand while playing a melody with their right hand. I, and the students in the melodic triads study group, all find this type of listening and tonal exploration very helpful for ear training and development. It shows a lot of quirky things that would otherwise go unnoticed. Like in this case, the fact that the natural 3rd of this dom7 chord is a melodic tension note that wants to resolve down to the #9. The phrasing that this helps produce really can't be understood intellectually from reading a theory book UNTIL we hear the melodic triad sitting over top of the chord. Hence the sustain pedal.
The way you explained that was super helpful, ive been a little alt curious lately and find it a bit more challenging to adopt than other sound colors
Awesome, glad you dig it!
I like this simplification and reliance on the ear. The triad plus the 2 most important chord tones (now tensions) that create a penta scale is very cool.
You got it!
Man, that sound just amazing!
Thanks... glad you dig it!
I’ll I love this harmonic color. Another way to get there is triad pairs; major one and diminished two a minor 3rd up will yield the same result (Eb and F dim in this case)
This is so great
Thanks Andy... glad you dig it!
I believe I'm starting to understand your Method
Awesome... Hope it gives you some cool ideas to work on!
Very cool!
Thanks Christiaan!
Most excellent, brother Jordan! Keep up the good work...
Many thanks. Was just checking out some of your videos... sounding great!!
On board, nice lesson!
Awesome seeing you on here... gonna have to step up my video lesson game now!
Love this approach. Brilliant
I hear it
Killer!
Yesssss.
Ha... thanks man!
If you add both the b6 and 4 to the triad you get THE bebop cadence (I call it the bebop tetrachord.)
I might try to do a quadrad analysis of Hot House, that's got some great sounds in it.
Would love to see what you come up with!
Killer!
Thanks Daniel
It's weird but cool.
There is an entire scale like this. The South Indian "Charu Keshi" scale. Major tetrachord on the bottom, minor tetrachord on top. Some jazz players use it as the V mode of melodic minor on an altered dom chord.
Interesting Antarblue. Thanks for sharing. That's a new one for me. I still like the idea of seeing it as existing with two different functional types of notes... melodic tension notes vs the stable, resolved triad notes. But still really cool to know there's an actual name for it. For me it's just the pentatonic scale I hear and jump for in an altered dominant situation. And yeah... it also sounds AMAZING in the V mode like you mention. Again, that's not how I organize it. For me I just think about an A major triad over G7 (G-B-D-F-A-C#-E). Gives us our fully extended G13 chord. And again, has the same two melodic tension notes... the 3rd and 7th of the chord serve to pull us back towards the triad. And oddly enough, the Eb major triad in this video and the A major triad you and I are talking about are just a tritone away from each other! :) So the 3rd and the 7th flip, and the triad jumps a tritone. Meaning this exact thing can be used over an alt dominant like G7#9#5 or can be used over the tritone sub of it... the Db13(#11,9). Very useful stuff. I'm going to have to look up this Chart Keshi scale. Thanks.
BTW - from a CST perspective this is NOT a melodic minor modal sound of itself - only if you add in the b7 (Db) do you call it unambiguously for the altered scale, without this, we are within the C natural minor/harmonic minor world, or putting a Bb (b3) over G7, say rather than A# (#9). One thing I like about this approach is it respects the blues aspect of that note. You'll find a lot of examples in the bebop canon of lines that use this sound without specifying that note. Donna Lee springs to mind... A quadrad analysis of that head would be interesting. The interesting, and revealing, thing about melodic triads is that so often they are diatonic against chromatic shell chords.
Yeah, it's more like "impressionism"... we're not full-blown stating the entire altered scale... but it's being implied. This triad can create either the 7#9#5 or the 7b13#9... and the main difference is in which melodic tension notes we add against the triad. Because we don't have the D or the Db in this pentatonic scale... it can fit into either situation.
NYC Jazz Guitar Masterclasses Barry would say play a Bb7 scale raise the Bb to a B incidentally. It’s new for me to hear that note as a tension note on Eb and not as a cadential ‘push’ towards Cm
Seems backwards. Chord tones are in, the imposed triad is out. But yeah, you can also do Db major over G alt, and Ab minor.
That's what the theory says should happen, yes. And harmonically, you're correct. But melodically, the ear tells a different story. Try playing a C# note over the A7 in measure two of Blue In Green. Play the E note to D note over the G-7 chord in measure one, then resolve to the C note in the melody over A7. Now try moving that C note up to the "in" chord tone of C#. Don't overthink the theory or what you know... just listen. The C# note (major 3rd) will sound off and will want to pull back down to the C natural note. Harmony and chord tones are about stacking vertically. Melody moves horizontally through time. And the tension and resolution points are not always where you expect them to be.
Yup Eb Charu Keshi over G7 alt then resolve to C minor or C minor
What is the scale in the Blue Matter bass Intro ?
I hear it and I think it’s amazing but I’ll never understand how I hear a B and an F over a G chord in ANY context and hear them as tense notes
Still trips me out when I stop and think about it
Come and hang in our Melodic Triads Study Group. We have tons of free resources and monthly materials... plus lots of supportive members around the world to talk with and bounce ideas off of!
www.NYCJazzGuitarMasterclasses.com/p/melodic-triads
Please fix your amplifier hum very distracting
Thanks for the feedback, Frank. Are you hearing an actual hum from my amp? Or are you talking about the sustain pedal I'm using to hold out the chord while I improvise over it? I'm not hearing a hum in the sense of a grounding or electrical issue. I think you mean the chord. Sorry if it bugs you. It's important when doing melodic ear training to keep a harmonic context in mind. I use the sustain pedal to hold down a simple chord while playing around with melodic triad ideas to create a similar effect of a piano player holding down a chord in their left hand while playing a melody with their right hand. I, and the students in the melodic triads study group, all find this type of listening and tonal exploration very helpful for ear training and development. It shows a lot of quirky things that would otherwise go unnoticed. Like in this case, the fact that the natural 3rd of this dom7 chord is a melodic tension note that wants to resolve down to the #9. The phrasing that this helps produce really can't be understood intellectually from reading a theory book UNTIL we hear the melodic triad sitting over top of the chord. Hence the sustain pedal.